Re: [biofuel] 100,000 miles on SVO?
Ed- I think I should step gingerly here, I know you promote WVO conversion systems. However, I refer to Shaine Tyson, late of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory who gave a talk in Connecticut last year, stating that in all of the national research, only one truck was found that had lasted 150,000 miles on SVO. How does this square with your list? Are you starting out with dozens of examples, or is it a short list? Something funny happen over 100,000 and under 150,000, or is this technology particularly hard on direct injection engines? We want to know the real value of this technology. Are the rumors about the horrors of TDI conversions true? Why, what goes wrong? Tom Leue In a message dated 5/11/04 2:10:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, I often get asked how many engines, specifically modern direct injection engines, I know of, that have gone more than the magic number (for some reason) of 100,000 miles (yes, miles, not kilometers, please...so, let's say over 160,000 km) I know I could spend hours scouring the databases, such as they exist, translating from German sites, etc. etc...but if anyone needs a good research project for academic work, this is one!! Or, if you just want to send me notice of examples of such that you are aware of, please do! Please exclude old Mercedes.I know there are lots of those that have gone that far...I am looking for TDI's, modern trucks, equivalent hours on gensets or tractors (let's see...1600 hours at 100 km/hok, let's say over 1600 hours),Ê etc. I'll compile these as they come in, unless someone out there can set up a self-admin database for us, which would be a heck of a lot easier, and more accessible for all The SVO 100,000 Mile Club Database.anyone up for doing that? We can host it on our server space if need be, I think. Spread the word? Help get it going? Thank you! Edward Beggs - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
What's wrong with this story? The oxides of nitrogen don't actually come from the fuel, there is no nitrogen in standard diesel fuel to speak of. The NOx are created in the combustion of the fuel, so it is the chore of the engine manufacturer, not the fuel maker to control NOx. Fuel refiners will have a hard time controlling NOx, no matter how clever they are. But, in total, this is excellent news. The EPA estimate is that this action alone will save 12,000 lives a year !! by the time all of the old equipment is replaced with new technology. Don't hold your breath for that to happen, some of these machines will last 50 years from now, still belching black smoke. It is biodiesel that can make the difference here, reducing black smokers by more than 50% in particulate matter and unburned hydrocarbons. I have run a few experiments that reduced soot levels by up to 80% when 80% biodiesel was added to the tank, in just 2 hours! The registry ran the final test twice since they couldn't believe a truck could be that much improved in a single day. Even better, the latest University of California study showed a 93% reduction in carcinogens (nPAH's) when biodiesel was used, instead of regular fuel. Tom Leue In a message dated 5/10/04 9:13:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=1; u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc 2 hours, 18 minutes agoÊ Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Chris Baltimore WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration will finalize rules on Tuesday to cut air pollution from tractors, bulldozers and other off-road diesel vehicles by over 90 percent, the Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) said on Monday. Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99 percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which the EPA proposed a year ago. Also, Cummins Inc., Caterpillar Inc. and others will have to sell engines starting in 2008 that strip out more harmful particles in emissions linked to asthma and other serious respiratory ailments. EPA Administrator Mike Leavitt briefed President Bush (news - web sites) on the rules on Monday and said the agency will finalize the rules on Tuesday. Leavitt likened the rules to the government's decision in the 1970s to remove lead from gasoline. This is a big deal, Leavitt told reporters at the White House. This kind of thing only happens once or twice every 25 years. - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo, Monday, 10 May, 2004, 22:35:42, you wrote: AL Does my memory serve me correctly in that one of the advertised AL benefits of biodiesel is that it contains no sulphur hence AL diesels can be fitted with catalytic converters? The reason they AL aren't already is that the sulphur poisons the converter. If this AL is the case then won't the new requirements actually be good for AL biodiesel, assuming the engine companies do fit the catalytic AL converters? AL Regards, AL Andrew Lowe I have a couple of friends who keep telling me that biodiesel will be hard on engines since there is no sulphur for lubricity. And I can tell them...? I'm not an expert on this but I think you will find that biodiesel is touted as a REPLACEMENT for sulphur, ie it has better lubrication properties than sulphur. This is why you are seeing B5 and B10, dino-diesel which is low sulphur with some biodiesel added to bring the lubrication back up to scratch - I think. Am I sort of on the right track here - comments from the list? Andrew Happy Happy, Gustl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GM wheat on the back foot
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/11/1084041401052.html - GM giant abandons wheat plan By Paul Brown London May 12, 2004 The Monsanto Company has scrapped its plan to commercialise genetically modified wheat - in the biggest defeat yet for agricultural biotechnology and a win for GM sceptics who said the crop was not needed. The decision, after hundreds of millions of dollars were invested in the crop over seven years, follows pressure from US and Canadian farmers who feared that GM wheat would destroy their billion-dollar markets in Europe and Japan. Monsanto, the world's biggest seller of GM seeds, had looked to the introduction of GM wheat to fulfil a dream of dominating the world's bread market. The company had shown that GM wheat increased yields by 5 per cent to 15 per cent, but consumer resistance to the idea of eating GM bread - particularly in Europe - meant the biggest part of the US export market would disappear overnight. Monsanto - which has not ruled out reviving the crop in future - said on Monday that the North American market had shrunk 25 per cent since it started research on the GM crop. Advertisement Advertisement It said it would instead concentrate on maize, cotton and oilseeds such as rape, where it already has a large seed market. Sue Mayer from GM pressure group Genewatch said: This is amazing, extraordinary; the company has been bullish about this great new flagship product and insisting it would be marketed across the world. This is a huge step-down. A small but organised band of farmers in Canada and the northern Great Plains in the US had fought for five years to kill the GM crop, fearing the wheat would cost them vital markets among sceptical consumers in Europe and Asia. Although wheat is only one of the world's staple food crops, it is the most valuable for a seed seller because it is grown in the richest regions of the world, Europe and America, where profit margins are the greatest. But after the boycott of GM maize and soya beans in Europe, wheat farmers feared that they would also lose markets. For the past 10 years the European Union and Japan have bought about 45 per cent of US wheat exports. Most of the wheat for bread in Europe comes from North America, because most European grain is not of high enough quality to make bread. There has been resistance from US growers for some time to the introduction of GM wheat because of fears that cross-pollination or mixing in stores would render it unsaleable. Monsanto's Roundup Ready wheat, which resists herbicides, was designed to make it easier and less labour-intensive for growers to control weeds. Monsanto said it scrapped the product not because of pressure from activists, but out of hard-nosed business calculations. With growers divided on whether to accept the crop, Monsanto said it simply saw better opportunities elsewhere. North American Wheat Growers chief executive Darren Coppock said efforts to use biotechnology to improve the wheat crop were not dead. But genetic alterations that benefited farmers alone might not be enough to overcome consumer resistance, he said. Companies needed to develop genetic alterations that could benefit millers and consumers. Among farmers, nobody has a scientific or technical or philosophical objection to using biotechnology in wheat, he said. The resistance comes if the person at the very end of the food chain says: 'I'm not going to buy the product.' - agencies Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: biodiesel in Nevada City / Grass Valley CA
I just visited a new store up here in Grass Valley and the clerk tells me a Biodiesel Co-op will be starting soon here in GV. Ag Natural contact: Roy Harris 403 Idaho-Maryland Road Grass Valley, CA. 95945 TEL: (530) 274-0990 FAX: (530) 274-0980 Thomas --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, TJ Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to Biodiesel and just getting started but there is a company in Nevada City that sells Biodiesel. I found them in my search. I live in Grass Valley myself. Here is the information.. tj World Energy Alternatives; Nevada City, CA Phone: (530) 478-9196 Contact: Graham Noyes http://www.worldenergy.net --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Matt Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm in the process of moving up to the Nevada City / Grass Valley area of CA... I wanted to find out if there were any biodiesel cooperatives in the area? Thanks. Matt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Dark fuel
I have a question. After having titrated and processed my test batches of WVO from the Chinese restaurant it is coming out, after washing, with a crystal shine to it BUT it is still amber in color. It registers PH 7.3. I read somewhere that darker fuel means that it still has junk in it, but this one seems to meet all the other requirements. Any comments are appreciated. I got crystal clear yellow with new canola but then it was yellow to start with.The Chinese oil was a dark murky sludge with a tint of caramel and once processed looks great ! I am in a quandry. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war
All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' s quest, so find a better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic though culturally rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their children are being well taken care of, and now have the benefit of electricity, inexpensive housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good thing we can kick him out of office in 2004. How many other countries refresh their leadership on such a regular basis? I agree with some who think his entire administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, corruption, and fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire world. I am ashamed to be associated with our false President and his cabinet these days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly so...as it turns out. Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose an entirely different administration and get those crocked-good-for-nothin' Ashcrofts, Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When push comes to shove, and believe me it has! The American public will do the right thing. In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just doing what we can to reduce the need for foreign oil, to take the incentive away from stability in the Middle East. Personally I look forward to the day when the economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the area, at least on the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, they may just have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, and act respectable. Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the world awards progress...they'll figure it out. Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim populations in general, I believe all people are generally good, and have gone through the four years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored University here in the US. With that said- Flame away dear friends, Ryan :) -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:57 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war Why not ask the Israelis Ted? No. Wait. They haven't figured out their little problem yet either. Many don't agree with the analogy of Iraq being another Viet Nam. Rather, the comparison to the Gaza Strip or the West Bank is more appropriate - continual attrition, continual hate, continual oppression, continual occupation. But heck. The US has been very good at oppression, occupation and even genocide throughout its illustrious past. Just ask any American native. And for that? Jackson got his picture on the $20. One very queer country that pays homage to those who are the architects of such sweeping devastation. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ted Dinkelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war As the poll states, the majority think this is a bad idea. My question is how do we get out of it? Just quiting and going home would be a worse situation and staying will cost many lives on all sides. Ted Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just saw the latest gallup polls about the Iraq war and Bush handling of it. As we said the whole time, it were and is a bad idea to unilaterally occupy Iraq. Now finally a majority of the American people seems to agree with it and that Bush is not capable to handle it. Now we cannot find any majority population of any country in the world, who think that the Iraq occupation was or is a good idea. We also find some fine ways of which the OPEC countries show their opinion of what is happening. They are signing up the major development of Natural Gas with other countries, like Russia and China, and when US finally have transport capacity for NG, they will have difficulties to buy enough. The same is happening on new oil exploration. They also have difficulties in delivering more oil to US. This is not a surprise, if the proponents of the opinion that we at the moment experience the Hubbert peak of oil production. The other possibility is that the oil producing countries prefer to sell to China, than to US. My personal opinion is that, even if they wanted, they cannot meet the growing demand in US and the world. US is not only buying to meet higher demands, but is also buying desperately for filling up their strategic storage reserve, that way pushing prices higher. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do
[biofuel] Re: oil from algae...
Here is the link to the comprehensive Dept. of Energy Report (all 328 pages of it) A Look Back at the U.S. Department of Energy's Aquatic Species Program: Biodiesel from Algae http://www.ott.doe.gov/biofuels/pdfs/biodiesel_from_algae.pdf --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, lowell sheffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of lit on this subject during 1980s. Search on NTIS which is U.S. gov repository for gov funded research. The critters you want info on are called Microalgae not algae and they produce Lipids which you and I call oil. If you want info about getting the oil out of the microalgae search on the net for Lipid Extraction. Most of NTIS research on this is under program called Aquatic Species Program. Try to get 1987 and 1985 reports. Each report cost me at least $30 to $60. Solar Energy Institute in Golden CO. published a neat small report in 1985 called Fuel options from Microalgae dated July 1984. If you get into this you will need to buy quite a few chemicals, some common like Epsom Salt, baking soda and some pretty exotic. If you want to look at houses for your critters search on the net for photobioreactor . Tried this once and failed. Also wife and daughters saw no humor in growing pond scum in the house. May try this one day when I get some space out of the house but am more interested in finding cheap sources of oil seeds. Hope this helps. Good luck. Lowell From: balaji [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:48:23 +0530 Hi all, So am I. Balaji, Chennai, TN, India - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... I am interested as well. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: wwschnabel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... I asked a while ago if anyone had any info on Oil from algae. What I would like to do is an experiment. Does anyone have any info on how exactly to extract the oil from algae? Could I do it in a home lab? Thanks, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links _ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ö FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war
Hello Ryan All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. What good? Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' s quest, Who did? so find a better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic though culturally rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their children are being well taken care of, and now have the benefit of electricity, inexpensive housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good thing we can kick him out of office in 2004. How many other countries refresh their leadership on such a regular basis? I agree with some who think his entire administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, corruption, and fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire world. I am ashamed to be associated with our false President and his cabinet these days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly so...as it turns out. Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose an entirely different administration and get those crocked-good-for-nothin' Ashcrofts, Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When push comes to shove, and believe me it has! The American public will do the right thing. Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The American public will do the right thing. I suppose that's a reassuring thing to say, and to believe, but is there any substance to it? I wonder if a representative cross-section of this list could agree on whether the American public has ever done the right thing? How could the American public itself agree on what the right thing might be in such a hopelessly polarised society? By voting? With a Diebold machine, HAVA, and a bunch of cronies on the Bench? How could they know what the right thing is amid such an intense and constant spin barrage? And indeed they don't. Results of a recent PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll: - A 57% majority believed Iraq was either directly involved in carrying out the 9/11 attacks or had provided substantial support to al-Qaeda - 82% either said that experts mostly agree Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda or experts are evenly divided on the question - 45% believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found - 60% believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction or a major program for developing them - 65% said most experts say Iraq did have them or that experts are divided on the question - estimates of the number of US troop fatalities in Iraq varied widely - 59% were unaware that the majority of world public opinion is opposed to the US war with Iraq - asked how many nuclear weapons the U.S. has, the median estimate was 200 (the actual number is 6,000) These beliefs are closely correlated with intentions to vote for Bush. This puts the level of opinion of the American public far behind current events that have received a great deal of coverage. It would seem that a major proportion of the American public is less concerned with doing the right thing than with believing whatever they're comfortable with. Just empty pablum. In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just doing what we can to reduce the need for foreign oil, WRONG!!! to take the incentive away from stability in the Middle East. Huh? Personally I look forward to the day when the economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the area, at least on the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, they may just have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, and act respectable. Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the world awards progress...they'll figure it out. They did, you didn't. Maybe if the American public had done the right thing the US would have had something vaguely resembling a foreign policy over the last 50 years or so instead of sowing a trail of dragon's teeth in the Middle East and elsewhere in order to prop up Big Oil no matter how, a trail leading straight to 9/11 and beyond. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32425/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/27058/ And now you think you can just walk away? Like in Afghanistan? Twice? Just broken eggs for your omelette, like the Native Americans and the land? (Most of which went down the Mississippi anyway, and still is.) Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim populations in general, Just in particular? I believe all people are generally good, and have gone through the four years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored University here in the US. With that said- Flame away dear friends, Why dangle such obvious flame-bait on an international list? This isn't an American list, Americans aren't even in the majority here, and it would be flame-bait even on an American list. Keith Ryan :) -Original Message-
Re: [biofuel] Catastrophe has hit!
Steve Spence seems to have solved his problems. - Keith Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:57:23 - Subject: Re: Our new off grid home More exciting news: 1. Linda's surgery is scheduled for May 20th 2. $10k was provided to completely pay off the new off-grid home. We are Landowners, in the clear! See http://www.green-trust.org for updates. To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:21:07 - Subject: [biofuel] Catastrophe has hit! Steve and Linda need help, please see http://www.green-trust.org for particulars. -- Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EERE Network News -- 05/12/04
A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) http://www.eere.energy.gov/Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE). May 12, 2004 #newsNews and Events #6854USDA Offers $22.8 million for Energy Efficiency and Renewables #6855Massachusetts to Cut Greenhouse Gas Emissions #6856Colorado Utility Plans to Add 500 Megawatts of Renewables #6857Nevada Adopts Solar Energy Incentives, Awards First to Washoe Tribe #6858Geothermal Power Projects Under Development in Nevada and Idaho #6859New System Generates 4.5 Megawatts from Gas Turbine Exhaust #siteSite News Distributed Energy Forum #energyEnergy Connections Despite a Rough Spring, California Expects No Power Problems this Summer News and Events USDA Offers $22.8 million for Energy Efficiency and Renewables The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced last week that it is offering $22.8 million in grants to support energy efficiency improvements and renewable energy installations at farms, ranches, and rural small businesses. The funds may be used to pay up to 25 percent of the project costs. Eligible renewable energy projects include those that derive energy from a wind, solar, biomass, or geothermal energy sources, as well as projects that use any of these energy sources to generate hydrogen for use as a fuel. See the http://www.usda.gov/Newsroom/0182.04.htmlUSDA press release. The USDA's Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency Improvements program was created as part of the 2002 Farm Bill. In 2003, the program awarded $21.7 million to 114 applicants from 24 states, helping them to make energy efficiency improvements and develop or improve wind and solar power systems and biomass energy systems, such as anaerobic digesters and ethanol production plants. For the formal Notice of Funds Availability for this year's funds, as well as additional information about the program, see the http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/farmbill/04fbnofa.htmprogram Web site. Massachusetts to Cut Greenhouse Gas Emissions Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney unveiled a comprehensive Climate Protection Plan for the state last week, committing the state to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions through measures such as energy efficiency and renewable energy. The state has pledged to cut its energy use enough to cut greenhouse gas emissions at state facilities by 25 percent by 2012, and will purchase only fuel-efficient vehicles and energy-efficient office equipment for its facilities. In addition, Massachusetts will improve its efficiency standards, encourage the construction of green buildings, encourage the development of renewable energy, and implement California's Low Emission Vehicle program to reduce emissions from vehicles in the state. The state aims to form partnerships with public and private entities in Massachusetts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels by the year 2010, with an additional 10 percent reduction by 2020. To allow flexibility in meeting those goals, the state plans to develop a market for earning and trading greenhouse gas emissions credits within the state. See the http://www.mass.gov/portal/govPR.jsp?gov_pr=gov_pr_040506_climate_act ion_plan.xmlgovernor's announcement or go directly to the full Climate Protection Plan (http://www.mass.gov/ocd/docs/MAClimateProtectionPlan.pdfPDF 852 KB). http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/alternate.htmlDownload Acrobat Reader. Colorado Utility Plans to Add 500 Megawatts of Renewables Xcel Energy's Ponnequin Wind Farm in northern Colorado may be a sign of things to come. Credit: Warren Gretz, NREL Xcel Energy filed its least-cost resource plan with the Colorado Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) in late April, and the plan includes up to 500 megawatts of renewable energy capacity, predominantly from wind power. The utility also plans an all-source bid process (that is, requesting bids from all types of power sources) that could yield more renewable energy projects. Altogether, Xcel Energy plans to acquire 3,600 megawatts of new generating capacity in Colorado by 2013, much of which will consist of power plants fueled with coal or natural gas. But the utility plans to pursue its renewable energy plans first, and has asked the CPUC for approval to request proposals for 500 megawatts of renewable energy in July 2004. See the http://www.xcelenergy.com/XLWEB/CDA/0,3080,1-1-1_5929_8634-11337-0_0_ 0-0,00.htmlXcel Energy press release. Xcel Energy's request for proposals for renewable energy should do well, if the results from a similar request by PacifiCorp are any indication. PacifiCorp, which serves customers in six western states, recently requested proposals for 1,100 megawatts of renewable energy and received 42 bids for 54 projects totaling 5,600 megawatts. Wind power comprised 85 percent of the proposed capacity, and geothermal and hydropower split the remainder. See the
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Most of the black smoke/soot that diesels are notorious for is more the driver's fault than the engine's. Drivers are seldom to never trained to feed fuel to the engine (aka accelerate) only as fast as it can accept it. The black smoke is incompletely combusted fuel caused by fuel overload. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday What's wrong with this story? The oxides of nitrogen don't actually come from the fuel, there is no nitrogen in standard diesel fuel to speak of. The NOx are created in the combustion of the fuel, so it is the chore of the engine manufacturer, not the fuel maker to control NOx. Fuel refiners will have a hard time controlling NOx, no matter how clever they are. But, in total, this is excellent news. The EPA estimate is that this action alone will save 12,000 lives a year !! by the time all of the old equipment is replaced with new technology. Don't hold your breath for that to happen, some of these machines will last 50 years from now, still belching black smoke. It is biodiesel that can make the difference here, reducing black smokers by more than 50% in particulate matter and unburned hydrocarbons. I have run a few experiments that reduced soot levels by up to 80% when 80% biodiesel was added to the tank, in just 2 hours! The registry ran the final test twice since they couldn't believe a truck could be that much improved in a single day. Even better, the latest University of California study showed a 93% reduction in carcinogens (nPAH's) when biodiesel was used, instead of regular fuel. Tom Leue In a message dated 5/10/04 9:13:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=1; u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc 2 hours, 18 minutes ago Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Chris Baltimore WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration will finalize rules on Tuesday to cut air pollution from tractors, bulldozers and other off-road diesel vehicles by over 90 percent, the Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) said on Monday. Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99 percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which the EPA proposed a year ago. Also, Cummins Inc., Caterpillar Inc. and others will have to sell engines starting in 2008 that strip out more harmful particles in emissions linked to asthma and other serious respiratory ailments. EPA Administrator Mike Leavitt briefed President Bush (news - web sites) on the rules on Monday and said the agency will finalize the rules on Tuesday. Leavitt likened the rules to the government's decision in the 1970s to remove lead from gasoline. This is a big deal, Leavitt told reporters at the White House. This kind of thing only happens once or twice every 25 years. - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: US poll about Iraq war
When you say our defense, are you thinking that you're speaking for all US citizens. Because you sure don't speak for me, and I can only hope that at least a sizeable minority of my fellow citizens would feel the same. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' s quest, so find a better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic though culturally rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their children are being well taken care of, and now have the benefit of electricity, inexpensive housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good thing we can kick him out of office in 2004. How many other countries refresh their leadership on such a regular basis? I agree with some who think his entire administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, corruption, and fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire world. I am ashamed to be associated with our false President and his cabinet these days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly so...as it turns out. Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose an entirely different administration and get those crocked-good-for-nothin' Ashcrofts, Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When push comes to shove, and believe me it has! The American public will do the right thing. In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just doing what we can to reduce the need for foreign oil, to take the incentive away from stability in the Middle East. Personally I look forward to the day when the economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the area, at least on the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, they may just have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, and act respectable. Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the world awards progress...they'll figure it out. Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim populations in general, I believe all people are generally good, and have gone through the four years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored University here in the US. With that said- Flame away dear friends, Ryan :) -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:57 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war Why not ask the Israelis Ted? No. Wait. They haven't figured out their little problem yet either. Many don't agree with the analogy of Iraq being another Viet Nam. Rather, the comparison to the Gaza Strip or the West Bank is more appropriate - continual attrition, continual hate, continual oppression, continual occupation. But heck. The US has been very good at oppression, occupation and even genocide throughout its illustrious past. Just ask any American native. And for that? Jackson got his picture on the $20. One very queer country that pays homage to those who are the architects of such sweeping devastation. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ted Dinkelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war As the poll states, the majority think this is a bad idea. My question is how do we get out of it? Just quiting and going home would be a worse situation and staying will cost many lives on all sides. Ted Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just saw the latest gallup polls about the Iraq war and Bush handling of it. As we said the whole time, it were and is a bad idea to unilaterally occupy Iraq. Now finally a majority of the American people seems to agree with it and that Bush is not capable to handle it. Now we cannot find any majority population of any country in the world, who think that the Iraq occupation was or is a good idea. We also find some fine ways of which the OPEC countries show their opinion of what is happening. They are signing up the major development of Natural Gas with other countries, like Russia and China, and when US finally have transport capacity for NG, they will have difficulties to buy enough. The same is happening on new oil exploration. They also have difficulties in delivering more oil to US. This is not a surprise, if the proponents of the opinion that we at the moment experience the Hubbert peak of oil production. The other possibility is that the oil producing countries prefer to sell to China, than to US. My personal
Re: [biofuel] 100,000 miles on SVO?
Tom: First, I will say that we have always stated that WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) or new plant oil conversion systems are to be considered experimental and do not have millions of miles of testing that biodiesel has had, at least not yet. The interest and the funding shifted to biodiesel early on, it seems, after the tests in the early 80's, which went more or less along the lines of: 1.Fill tank of then-current technology direct injection engine with sunflower or soy oil (most often, it seems) and see what happens. 2. Wait for a high incidence of failures. 3. Write the report: does not work very well or for very long. I have no doubt that the researchers were sincere and reported accurately, but at least in the studies from that era that I have read there were some common themes which are not reflective of the way things are done now which are thought to improve the results. Notably: - there never seems to be mention of preheating the vegetable oil, to reduce viscosity and thus make it easier on the lift pump, injection pump, and also improve atomisaiton. That's the single biggest change, which seems to improve results. - the oils chosen were often less than ideal. According to the information I have, oils such as Canola/rapeseed/mustard, coconut, high oleic sunflower (recent) might have yielded better results. - the engines were often older type direct injection engines that did not have the sort of (with variations, of course) two-stage (pilot injection) high pressure, computer controlled systems we have today, nor the sort of combustion chamber designs that exist today. They were of course also not indirect injection engines (which many say will give better results on plant oils than direct injection). There have been quite successes in the use of indirect injection engines. - there was no mention made of using two tanks, for easier starting, operation of the engine on lighter fuel (diesel or biodiesel) until it was hot, and no purge cycle, again on the lighter and more combustible fuel, before shutdown. - also there is no mention of use of techniques such as blends of plant oils with solvents and cosolvents, in combination with preheating, as was done in some of the more recent, and very successful, trials of the ACREVO study, which is on our web site (blending 9% ethanol into rapeseed oil, preheating to 80C, and use in a small displacement direct injection engine yielded very good results) Regarding Shaine Tyson's comments, I am not sure how recent the study is that is mentioned, but if recent, then perhaps to put in proper context, I'd ask this: - were there a lot of premature failures documented, or is it just that these are mostly relatively recent conversions (most SVO conversions and kits having been done only since 2000 or so) and so the miles have not been accumulated yet, and there is insufficient data to come to any conclusion about the effectiveness of the use of, in particular, preheating and two-tank systems, for DI and IDI engines? If there was a high incidence of failures, were the causes examined? What were the failures modes? What would they be attributed to? If examined, were solutions sought? RE: my list - I don't *have* a list - that's the point - we need one at this point in time. And, BTW, dozens of examples would be a decent start, but not enough to really show anything. It'd be a start, though, if we did have a good list of at least that, a few dozen examples of SVO high-milers. That's what I was looking for help in compiling. It's mentioned now and then, and we see a few attempts, but I have not yet seen a serious effort at compiling a list of documented high-mileage successes, in the way that positive results were compiled for biodiesel, for example, while that was under development. It'd be nice to see it get a little more attention, especially in English, and especially in North America, I think. RE: something funny at 100,000-150,000 miles...well, no, I don't think there is any magic number: we have all seen the reports and horror stories about engines being ruined by use of plant oils in short order - so many hours, so many miles - again, mostly of the sort and from the era and conditions mentioned above ...but then we seem now to also be hearing more and more of better long term results than predicted - so far, too much anecdotally. That needs to be examined in more detail. If there are getting to be a good number of successes in teh longer term, how are they being accomplished? What are the best practices? Of course, I have my own ideas on that, as do many others, and some have been incorporated into kits, some would be related to engine type, conditions of use, type of fuel oil used, type of lubricating oil used, and so on. Those need to be examined again - if something seems to be working (i.e. there is progress being made),
[biofuel] Toyota
Thanks for passing on this anecdote relating the opinion of a person at Toyota. I think it's of some use to try to piece together what some executives at these companies are thinking and seeing. As I think this out, I'm not sure, but I think it may be the first time I've ever seen any executive anywhere at an auto company verify, even just fourth-hand, even just by incidental reference, that they have a problem defying the wishes of the Oil industry. I mean: the first time I've really seen this in writing. My take on Toyota, and some of the other companies such as Honda (the first to introduce a hybrid to the U.S.), is that they have approached some of these matters like this: they are ahead of many (not all, but many), of the alt-fuel and better-mileage efforts of the other companies. Therefore, so the reasoning goes, they can get away with (for now) not pushing the envelope too much to the point where it might violate any de facto (explicit or implicit) edicts they have received from those who supply fuel for their products. Thus, for example, we see Toyota doing a pretty good EV, and knowing that some of its customers in the U.S. want to keep it, and buy more (such as the Utility SCE which has owned two or three hundred and would be glad to keep many of them or buy more) but they hide behind the usual... liability law concerns, supposed lack of demand, costs too high... whatever excuses seem handy. Other tactics include I think preserving plausible deniability for some executives... By this I mean that they may keep themselves unaware that there is demand for alternatives. It seems to me I heard of one incident where Greg Hansen, a California Activist for EVs, was able to get this through, very slightly, at a meeting a few years ago where a Toyota executive claimed that consumer demand had been poor for the RAV4 EV (or something like that... it's been awhile since I heard this story) and Hansen, in a particularly lucid exchange held forth from the audience that the RAV4 EV HAD NEVER BEEN OFFERED TO CONSUMERS in California. If I recall (and I might not be correct) it had been offered as a lease (but not a purchase to fleet people). The Executive seemed unaware of this and soon thereafter Toyota did allegedly make the RAV4 available to consumers not only by lease but by purchase. But they only did it at 25 or so California dealerships, only in limited numbers (that ended once they were all bought up), etc. Apologies if this story has inaccuracies... it's been awhile. So, what we see here, is this idea of Toyota being slightly different, a little bit ahead, but (after pushing the envelope a little) still returning in the end to comply with the (apparently) worldwide in-force rule against any major manufacturer making it possible for consumers to *consider* buying a vehicle that does not push them into using petroleum-industry fuel. Consumers are then inaccurately informed that they have allegedly considered and rejected such vehicles. This is an addition of insult-to-injury that we may be surprised to see honorable executives at 'better' companies contribute to, but I think it is what it is. Many of us, myself included, are admirers of Toyota, above many other companies, but when a friend or an admired person or an admired company lies, sometimes we don't know what to say, except to point it out. I'm sorry Toyota, but you're not telling the truth. Period. You're fudging. Stop it. We've had it. This is not to say that your friend or acquaintance was lying... When I talk about lying I mean that Toyota and a few others get away with their real policy (adhering to fuel company wishes, for now) while fudging things in public and stating a somewhat different set of reasonings (i.e.: claiming that nobody wants thus-and-such vehicles, or that the economics of mass production do not apply to certain technologies, or that emissions are allegedly too much of a problem of thus-and-such vehicle-and-fuel combination, or that PHEV vehicles are not for now an idea worth pursuing, etc.) MM On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:55:19 +0900, you wrote: Yes, true. A couple of years ago Tokyo's populist mayor, a far rightwing buffoon named Ishihara, launched a cheap-vote-catching campaign against diesels, the DieselNo! campaign: cure the symptom instead of the disease. The main complaint is the usual one in such cases, NOx. Everyone's frightened of confronting the petroleum lobby, so that doesn't come into it, and the automakers decided to jump on the bandwagon for the sake of the short-term gains to be made from selling more new cars. So, there are more and more restrictions on diesels, especially diesel cars, and it's spreading beyond Tokyo. Not many Japanese seem to know that the Japanese automakers do make highly efficient, very clean, diesel cars, but only for export, to Europe, not for Japan. A Toyota executive who got interested in biofuels wrote to me and said this, among other things:
[biofuel] New battery chemistry
Hello folks, Just noticed on the Register a short note about new battery chemistry (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/12/lithium_sulfur/). If what they say on their site (http://www.sionpower.com/) is at least half true (I always take such things with a pound of salt), we could be getting 300Wh/kg batteries for our electric cars several years down the road. Woohooo! The discharge rate seams very good (can discharge at 3C - this means 20minutes to run down the entire battery pack), and power density is also adequate. For now, the batteries last 300 cycles (100%DOD to 80% of capacity), but this is bound to improve. Of course, good things first come into market segments which command large profit margins - such as laptops in this case :). Here are some quick calculations I've done: at 300wh/kg, 120 kWh battery pack would weight 400kg. This is for 600km range! (taking 20kWh/100km - this is a reasonable guestimate for a midsize car). You would save some weight on the motor side because electric motors are more compact than gasoline ones (at least -100kg - potentially more, considering absence of gearbox), and fuel, say 50liter (- 40kg). For those, on the other side of the pool - use conversion factors 2.2pound/kg, 3.78liter/gallon, 1.6km/mile :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 2113
Keith wrote: Snip You make scythe blades? The standard scythe blade used today is 27.5 inches long, made of hammered steel in 26 separate steps, and curved in every dimension to optimise the cut it says here. Aleks Kac sent us two such scythes from Slovenia. They're like the Austrian scythes recommended by David Tresemer, Elliot Fishbein and others as being vastly superior to the American-style scythe, and sold in the US by people like Lehman's (who supply the Amish, among others), but they cost about $60 and up. They're cheap in Slovenia though, where such traditions are still, well, traditional (for now). Feeling much the same about airfreight and couriers as Todd does, and me too, Aleks sent them by surface mail, but somehow they came by air anyway. They're beautiful things. Something of a challenge to make one. Well I am rather glad that I did not know that, because if I had I would probably never have attempted to solve the problem myself. What happened was I drove over my old scythe with my tractor and snapped the blade in two, I re-pointed and sharpened the remaining half but it was too short to be any good. I had old Datsun leaf springs laying around and the next to top leaf was curved about right I thought and it was chamfered thinner at both ends. I cut about a 3rd off giving me a thicker end to shape to the shaft (handle) end ground out the pointed shape and then ground down a lot of steel to thin the blade and finally shape it. It took a while and used up a few grinding disks but it was all done with a hand held angle grinder and I still use the grinder but with a flap disk to sharpen it up as needed. Well, it may not look exactly like a proper scythe and it is heavier but it works just fine. I use it mostly to keep the grass and weeds down under my electric fencing. Later I made another one for a friend who has a summer house in this area and he never gets here until later in the year by which time his grass is uncut able with an ordinary lawn mower so he uses his to cut his whole garden once a year. I probably shouldn't have called it a scythe...if you saw the snow plough I rigged up out of an old water tank .. but it too works just fine :-) from worn out metal saw blades which can be had for free from mechanical workshops they can be had in 10 and 15 centimetre widths. This steel is hardened and will allow excellent sharpness but if you want a particular shape ask them to plasma cut the form you want, if you cut with acetelyn/oxygen the heat will spoil the hardening - you can re harden but it's not that easy. If you want to get into hardening an alternative material source would be vehicle leaf springs from the junk yard. Good, I'd thought of leaf springs. I have some old circular saw blades that I've made knives from, nothing special, workshop and farm knives, but they're good, take a nice edge. And I don't have an anvil. I'm really sorry I didn't get a cheap one from China when we were in Hong Kong. They cost an arm and a leg here in Japan. I do have a two-foot length of heavy steel girder though, I guess it'll do for now, Yes it will be fine for a lot of situations - an alternative is a length or two of railway track. but I'll miss the fancy bits, the pritchel hole, hardie hole, the table An upside down bit of railway track makes a reasonable table. and especially the horn. A right way up railway track piece can be acetelyn/oxygen cut roughly to shape and ground down to your needs. Oh yes, and in my opinion these bits should be mounted on a piece of tree trunk rather than a steel girder for example because the wood will return a readable 'feedback' in time which a steel pedestal can never do. Ha! I've just found an anvil! I think... They throw away tools here (!), superb sets of tools get garbaged when old craftsmen die and their sons aren't interested, very sad - but nice to find! I never found an anvil though, but I just met someone who did. He'll check it out, should know in a couple of days. Well done, even though it is sad, it's the same here. The silver lining is that another friend makes nails and hooks on his anvil, he charges 39 Skr per hook (about $5) though a hook will take him nearly 5 minutes to bash into shape - he sells plenty to the nostalgic with more money than sense. Actually I don't have any of the tools, but if I can make a sickle then I can make tools too. Yes, that's the fun thing but if you are setting up a forge please remember that all coals are not suitable and that your raw material must contain sufficient carbon to be forgeable and not all suppliers these days know the difference. I was thinking of charcoal. There's no shortage of wood around here. What do you think of charcoal, Go? I'm not sure - I was able to get hold of a large supply about 10 years ago and 2/3 is still left. What I was thinking about is the controllability of heating the coals to different
[biofuel] Re: US poll about Iraq war
Crikey Ryan! Did you read what you wrote? Do you even understand what it is that you communicated? How distored a perspective can you have when you say that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. And to justify such a statement of arrogance by trying to lay guilt on the doorsteps of those who came after such slaughter? How disconnected and disjointed can a human being's thought processes be? Benefitted? Haven't you figured out that the mindless and depraved philosophy of Manifest Destiny is something that global society is suffering the consequences from to this very day? Not to mention that it's acceptance and implementation in one era smooths the path for its implementation in every generation thereafter. Get real for a moment. It's somehow okay to slaughter and displace the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic ... natives who cannot withstand overwhelming numbers, unimaginable weaponry and devastating disease? Who the hell are you or anyone else to pass such judgement? Wake up for Christ's sake!!! And everyone elses. Standing up for a depraved philosophy that states we are morally compelled by God Almighty to kill weaker people and steal their land is every bit as immoral and depraved as those who swing the sword, obliterate food supplies or intentionally seed blankets with smallpox - or any similar actions. And then you move on and take issue with applications of similar policies of arrogance in the present day? Something sure isn't wound and tensioned properly in your upstairs orbit if you can on the one hand see the insanity of Bush's implementation of Jacksonian policy but still endorse or justify such aberrations in historical context. Somehow you need to get a mental, emotional and even spiritual grip and start understanding that all those dead, maimed and displaced persons from previous generations that you so easily dismiss were as human as you are at this very moment - and judging by your words, perhaps more so in many respects. One can only wonder how you would perceive history if you were a mother or child or infant or weathered elder on the receiving end of a saber or bullet sent from god. What are now ghosts were once brothers and sisters. And neither you nor anyone else has ever possessed the right to wave your hand and state that their murder is or was justified. As for your dismally blind and sweepingly general perspective on how well off the indigenous peoples of the North American continent are today or what the traits of a broadened education are? Whatever it is that you're smoking you need to put it down and take a long walk back into the world of reality. Todd Swearingen --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' s quest, so find a better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic though culturally rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their children are being well taken care of, and now have the benefit of electricity, inexpensive housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good thing we can kick him out of office in 2004. How many other countries refresh their leadership on such a regular basis? I agree with some who think his entire administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, corruption, and fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire world. I am ashamed to be associated with our false President and his cabinet these days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly so...as it turns out. Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose an entirely different administration and get those crocked-good-for-nothin' Ashcrofts, Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When push comes to shove, and believe me it has! The American public will do the right thing. In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just doing what we can to reduce the need for foreign oil, to take the incentive away from stability in the Middle East. Personally I look forward to the day when the economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the area, at least on the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, they may just have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, and act respectable. Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the world awards progress...they'll figure it out. Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim populations in general, I believe all people are generally good, and have gone through the four years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored University here in the US. With
[biofuel] The Bush Doctrine The Manson Doctrine
10/1/02 Unaltered AP photograph of George W. Bush, taken at a fundraiser for Republican congressional candidate Bob Beauprez in Denver, Colorado September 27, 2002 MANIFEST DESTINY By David Podvin American foreign policy is revisiting the most brutal period in our history. George W. Bush has resurrected the scourge of Manifest Destiny, a depraved philosophy that states we are morally compelled by God Almighty to kill weaker people and steal their land. There is no scriptural evidence that this is the covenant of Jehovah or Jesus or Mohammad or Buddha; the God whose will is now being carried out more closely resembles Attila the Hun. The stated desire for world domination has some observers comparing Bush to Adolf Hitler. It is a comparison that is entirely inappropriate - Hitler did not pretend to love the innocent civilians he was slaughtering. On the home front, there is also an unwelcome blast from the past. As has happened so many times in American history, conservatives are expediently detecting the scent of treason in the air. The moon is full, and the blood is rising in the wolf. Right-wingers are now working themselves into the irrational, frenzied state that precedes the hunt, lustfully anticipating the carnage they are about to inflict. Yet again, conservatives are patriotically preparing to lay waste to their natural born prey: the evil ones amongst us who endanger this sacred land by failing to conform to the Lord's fascist agenda. Having fostered imperialism abroad and McCarthyism at home, and with the stock market teetering on the edge of collapse, Bush is closing in on a Trifecta for the ages. Add the fact that he previously prevented blacks from voting, throw in the current discrimination against citizens who physically resemble the enemy, and Bush has delivered a reprise of the worst of twentieth century America - all deftly compressed into less than two years The Bush record is a logical extension of what happened in 2000. The theft of that election was not just a power grab - it was a policy statement by someone who has contempt for democracy and the rule of law. The inevitable result is the introduction of the Bush Doctrine. It declares that, while the United States would prefer to behave legally, We will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by acting pre-emptively. The Bush Doctrine is the latest incarnation of the Manson Doctrine, which clearly states, I reserve the right to kill you if I feel like it. This is not the best of America. America at its best exports freedom and democracy, not death and destruction. One of the shining moments in our history occurred when the Marshall Plan rebuilt Europe, even the part of Europe that had just tried to kill us. After defeating our enemies, we fed them and then helped to create free societies in which they could thrive. As a result, we turned adversaries into allies. Contrast this approach with the current situation in Afghanistan, where Bush has replaced the Taliban with thugs of his own and left the peasants to fend for themselves - without food or shelter - by growing opium poppies. America at its best allows people to read library books without having the Attorney General pass judgment on their selections, and go to museums without being monitored by FBI agents, and publicly demonstrate against government policy without being harassed. The best of America is George Washington declining to become king because he preferred to live as an equal rather than rule as a sovereign. This stands in sharp contrast to the current George, who attempts to rule as a sovereign even though he fails to qualify as an equal. The best of America is Abraham Lincoln imploring his countrymen to avoid war by listening to the better angels of their nature. It is quite different than imploring Congress to slash Medicare benefits for old Americans in order to help underwrite the cost of sending young Americans off to die. The best of America is Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., risking and ultimately sacrificing his own life so that others could be free at last. Personal sacrifice is alien to the man who now insists that our country pay a huge toll in blood and treasure to satiate the greed of his campaign contributors. America is a great country when we follow the lead of great people. And then there is the America that is led by George W. Bush. While the litany of ways in which Bush has disgraced our nation is seemingly endless, one example is especially compelling. Under Bush, self-proclaimed child of God, America is currently torturing foreign nationals who are suspected of committing terrorism. This return to the caves is cheered by the ruling class and their echoes in the mainstream media, who emphasize that our sadism is different than that of Torquemada and Idi Amin because we are the good guys. The conduct of the Bush administration must always be viewed through this prism, because
[biofuel] I wonder if Biodiesel would work well in these (Claimed) Low-emission High-Efficiency Hybrid Train Locomotives?
http://www.railpower.com/greengoat.php For those curious, their stock symbol on yahoo is p.to, the 'to' standing for the toronto stock exchange. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war
Hallo Keith, Ryan, Todd, All, Let me start off by stating that I understand I am sounding like a broken record but I believe my point to be important enough to keep on beating the same old drum. First things first. We, the United States, are a nation of sheep. Herd animals at heart as are most people to a greater or lesser extent. We also think of ourselves a a good and kind people as do most other folks. But, and this is a big but, we are a lazy people in many respects particularly when it comes to working the mind and that makes us ripe for manipulation. Somehow it does not strike us as odd that when we watch the news on TV or listen to the news on the radio or read the news in the various print media that they somehow all seem to have the same stories in the main. If ABC airs a piece on how Brad Pitt farted in public during the filming of his latest movie you can bet that all the other networks will run the same story and vice versa. Very important stuff. That the majority of the all media is owned by fewer and fewer people doesn't seem to be understood by most folks. When Bush was in a position to realize his plans for Iraq most of the American public didn't bother to do any investigating into the excuses he gave for the attack. They just took his word for it. After all he was backed up by intel and men of integrity such as Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and Powell. Besides, we all know we are a good and kind people. However, the fact is that had people not been lazy and willing to take the word of out and out professional liars, those being politicians and big money concerns, they would have understood that Iraq may have been a threat to its neighbors in the middle east but not to anyone in the west. Also, were we not plagued by laziness in thought and by selective memory, we would have remembered that it was the United States that assisted Sadaam into power and gave him what WMD he possessed. We would have also remembered that he used them against his own people and the Iranians and not against western peoples. Another problem we face is the two party system. A lot of folks will think I mean the Democrats and Republicans but that is just what is on the cover of the book. The contents are the haves and the have nots. We think that there is a world of difference between those in the major political parties but under closer scrutiny we will find that the problem is not that one party wants to rape the public and the other doesn't, but HOW the public will be raped because the raping is sure to come. It is not just the American public who gets raped either. Ask the Iraqis. As a matter of fact just ask anyone who decides not to play the game. Any good idea from those outside the circle of power is co-opted and then watered down. Any government who blasts American policy pays a penalty. But even given that the US is not much different than any other country, just bigger and more powerful. This two party scheme has us doing a couple of thing we should not be doing. The first is believing that the choice between tweedledum and tweedledee is actually a choice. Having to choose between the lesser of two evils without being able to choose for the good is NOT A CHOICE. The second thing we do is settle for that state of affairs. Well, at least I'm voting and trying to do something about things. Dream on. What you get is the illusion of doing something while the status quo remain essentially the same. While I'm thinking about it a third thing we do is boil everything down to economics. The bottom line. A vile phrase. A phrase which marks us as the lowest form of mammal. We knowingly rape and destroy each other for money? We reduce our fellows to mere increments of labor so we can have the profit margin we think we need? My grandfather was in the sit-down strikes in Flint, Michigan back in 1936 when they were trying to get a union established. He told me that back in '36 the union movement was a great and needed social movement with a sense of purpose as well as a good moral and ethical base. He then went on to say that he vividly remembered that in 1955 the union took the final step for the worst and became just like management and only interested in money and keeping the union bosses in their jobs. He also told me that he always drove Buicks (at which factory he worked) until 1955 and then he figured he might as well drive Fords or Chevrolets (less expensive and cheaper autos) because the quality in the Buicks had become no better than those other models. In less than 20 years the union had sunk to the lowest common denominator. Again, the bottom line. Well, the bottom line is as low as you can get folks. My duties in the military afforded me the opportunity to go around the world and visit, if only briefly,
[biofuel] Re: The Bush Doctrine The Manson Doctrine
exercise our right of self-defense by acting pre-emptively. How can anything pre-emptive be self defense? Am I missing something here? Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Bush Doctrine The Manson Doctrine
Sorry. Forgot the web address for the editorial. http://www.makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/021001_ManifestDestiny.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war
Dear (tut, tut) Sir, - Original Message - From: Ryan Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has come from our use of the land for the good of the world, than from the natives who inhabited it previously. Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' s quest, Quo bono ? so find a better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic though culturally rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their children or what is left of their decimated numbers after the systematic and sustained pogroms, the single largest and least mentioned blot on American history. are being well taken care of, and now have the benefit of electricity, inexpensive housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good thing we can kick him out of office in 2004. How many other countries refresh their leadership on such a regular basis? More countries than you care to acknowledge, with a lot less behind the scenes rigging that brought him to office in the first place. I agree with some who think his entire administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, corruption, and fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire world. I am ashamed to be associated with our false President and his cabinet these days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly so...as it turns out. Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose an entirely different administration and get those crocked-good-for-nothin' Ashcrofts, Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When push comes to shove, and believe me it has! The American public will do the right thing. And elect another Bush and prouide him the higest popularity ratings as they did immediately after the attack on iraq ? In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just doing what we can to reduce the need for foreign oil, Not in the sense you mean it, though. to take the incentive away from stability in the Middle East. come again. Personally I look forward to the day when the economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the area, at least on the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, they may just have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, and act respectable. You can then send your troops in and create the next US state. Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the world awards progress...they'll figure it out. Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim populations in general, I believe all people are generally good, and have gone through the four years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored University here in the US. With that said- Flame away dear friends, Ryan :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Hello Keith, - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday There are also additives available which lower NOx emissions with biodiesel. Could you please provide links/information on these additives ? Are they vegoil based ? Regards balaji Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Items of information
Have you tried to send them with a request to post in the files section to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? They go right to the list owner. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Stuart Hoenig To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 15:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Items of information If biofuel will provide an address that I can send photos and drawings to I will be happy to, send them. All I get so far is we don't publish them. Stuart A. Hoenig [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war
Dear Gustl Hallo Keith, Ryan, Todd, All, Let me start off by stating that I understand I am sounding like a broken record but I believe my point to be important enough to keep on beating the same old drum. As the Firesign Theatre also once said: If you push something hard enough it will fall over. So don't stop! I'd really hate it if you stopped, and I'm not the only one. Regards Keith snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Hello Balaji Hello Keith, - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday There are also additives available which lower NOx emissions with biodiesel. Could you please provide links/information on these additives ? Are they vegoil based ? I only know of one, but I think there are others. It's linked in this message, along with more discussion on NOx which you may find interesting. I don't know if it's vegoil-based or not. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33712/ Re: NOx/Ozone You might also ask these people, they may be able to help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's a company here in Japan that we're friendly with who're working on rapeseed-oil-based additives for biodiesel, interesting stuff but not on the market yet. I'll post more information when I have it. HTH Best wishes Keith Regards balaji Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Items of information
Hello Art, Stuart Has there been any further discussion on this? I hope it hasn't gone off-list, leaving the issue hanging here like this, lists are for sharing. If so, could you please bring it back onlist, and recap? Thanks Keith Addison Stuart, I have reviewed the information that you Faxed me and think there might be some other features which are affecting the evaporation rate of the water beyond high voltage. First of all, the water is at 50 deg C where water has a significant vapor pressure and also significant latent heat in the mass of the water. Second: High voltage can create a feature called electric wind which can create a higher than normal airflow rate across a water surface. A higher airflow can cause a higher evaporation rate as evidenced by wind blowing across a lake. It is not uncommon to get a multiple increase in evaporation rate even at room temperature by increasing the airflow across the surface of water. Third: There is no accounting for the heat required to provide the energy for evaporation. This is a physical law and not negotiable by high voltage or such. Water doesn't just exist at 50 deg C unless something is heating it up and this was not made clear in the data or sketches you sent. How much energy was added to the water during the time of testing? Fourth: I would like a better explanation how water vapor can be condensed using high voltage. I can understand how droplets (not water vapor) can be electrostatically collected if they can hold a charge but not water vapor. I worked for a waste water evaporator manufacturer for awhile and noticed that the evaporation rate when the liquid level was close to the stack was quite high. As the liquid level dropped, the rate of evaporation dropped as well. It turns out the spray from fractured boiling bubbles was being entrained in the airflow out the exhaust. This entrainment counted as evaporation rate but really clogged the stack as the water evaporated and left the solids which had been in the evaporator waste water. Fifth: Your sketch showed water droplets being created by the airflow across the evaporator. If droplets are being condensed in a condenser downstream of the evaporator, the salt concentration of the condensed water will be the same as the salt concentration in the evaporator. That is not de-salination. Only when you go to completely pure water vapor are you able to leave the solids behind. Looking forward to your reply. Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Stuart Hoenig To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com ; stuart a hoenig Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Items of information Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] The evaporation and condensation of water are very simple. In Fig. 1 I show the data from Japan Fig. 2 is the set up that would be used, I drew the system of Fig. 2 on the beach where it would be used. The distance of the high voltage electrode from the water in Fig.1 is about 5 cm. You will have to adjust this to the voltage available, Asakawa used 250 volts AC I have gotten somewhat better results with -5000 VDC. In Fig. 2 the needles in the salt water section should run at about -10kV in the next section -10 to -15kV best. I can send more details about the ground plate and other things. For the first unit you can use steel sewing needles, but steel will rust in that environment, eventually you will have to go to stainless. I will be happy to work with you. Suppliers of high voltage equipment include Edmund Scientific, www.scientificsonline.com, SURPLUS CENTER www.surpluscenter.com or GAMMA High Voltage, ask for Dom Galluzzo Tel 904-677-7070. Prof. Stuart A. Hoenig Dept. of Electrical Engin. Univ. Of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 - Original Message - From: Art Krenzel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Items of information Professor Hoenig: You presented some very fine ideas with your recent post to this listserve. I thank you. I have followed the desalination concepts for years but have not heard of a simpler electrical system could increase the rate of evaporation by 500%and the evaporated water is fresh. This water can be condensed by another simple electrical system. Would you elaborate on the specifics of the process, please? I fully support your concept of recovering biogas from organic wastes destined for landfills and subsequent loss from the cycle of life. Keep beating the drum! Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Stuart Hoenig To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May
[biofuel] Thanks!
... one and all. Biodiesel schmiodiesel, but I really enjoy this list sometimes. Lots of hassle and we don't really have the time it takes to maintain it, but it's worth it. Thanks to all, posters, lurkers, offlisters, everyone. Most sincerely Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
