Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Tractor pullers do this in the highly modified class ,you can see the exhaust change color when they add the water Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] help me
You can make your own ethanol . - Original Message - From: dan hentea [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:17 AM Subject: [Biofuel] help me hy. My name is Dan and i`m from Bucharest, Romania -that explains my bad english. I have a very big problem. I like the idea with biodiesel, i get all the stuff and ingredients that i need, but i can`t get methanol. Why? Because here in Romania took place some accidents caused by bad handleing and storeing of methanol. After this accidents the authoryties are asking a lot of lycences to buy metthanol. Can you help me with a substitute for methanol, or with a way of makeing my own methanol? thank you very much. ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Moderator's message
someone to talk to but just not right now,,, wevee had aaan arugment and are not speaking bawaa hahahah,laughingg like a loon,, jenniferr ,u can talk to meee anytime no matter whicha part of the sweing you are on im not laughinnn at oanyone, i am inviting anyone to have a laugh with me, on me for if we can lajgh, perhaps we dont have to cry just yet,,,heads kup , bpck, From: Jennifer Doty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Moderator's message Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:20:46 -0400 Ah, yes. I do understand the world of Bi- Polar. Such a blessing, such a curse, wonderful mood swings, irrational motivations, etc. I've been a diagnosed manic depressive since age 16, but I take comfort in the fact that most genesis have a mental illness. I know I am no genesis, my spelling is worse than Buck's, but I am in good company. - JRD Yes, I change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, that is part of the nature of being Bi-Polar.That is part of who I am.If the list can not accept me for who I am and what positive things I can sometimes offer, ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] storage in a hot climate@@
resistant,buckk From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:22:54 -0500 Greetings Todd, Actually paper adobe stands up real well, especially if it is stuccoed. My humidity is worse in the winter, since that is when we get liquid sunshine. grin I am looking into rice husk ash as a way to make the paper adobe more fire proof and perhaps help it withstand the weather better. Bales must be paid for, hauled in by truck and are a 2 man job to stack. Paper adobe uses my heavy clay and waste paper of which lots is available locally. Paper adobe is a one man job, so I can work on it while my DH is at work. Also, the paper adobe is much lighter requiring a less substantial foundation for the building. Each climate has it's own demands, what works well in one place is not the correct solution for everywhere. If we search, we can find a solution that will work for our own climate that is good for Mother Earth as well, if we are lucky enough that the government does not interfere. By the way, I have left paper adobe out in the winter in the rain and had it survive with only about 20% disintegration, not bad for dirt and paper. The big problem with traditional construction is termites. Either I would have to put the building up on posts about 3 feet off the ground or do chemical termite treatments. It is very difficult to build up in the air and have the building with stand the storms we get. I am tearing down a traditional construction built this way due to storm damage. Winds of 100 mph gusting to 130 mph are not unusual here. The buildings wind up being so tall, since 10 foot ceilings are a real benefit with our heat, that it is scary working on the upper walls and roof. We do not use a work crew, I do most of the building myself. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:28 AM 9/14/2004, you wrote: Ya' know Kim, You could put the matter to test quite simply. Build a six bale yard bench and wait and see. Construction in winter might also address the humidity issue in the presence of open bales. If all else fails, there's still conventional thick-wall or dual-wallconstruction, high R insullation and radiant barriers. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate Greetings Doug, Actually, unless you are rich and can afford a large construction crew, your bales are going to get wet during construction, so knowing how they will react is important. A water proof covering that does not breath will rot bales faster than leaving them outside due to condensation. There is no way in an extremely humid climate to get real dry bales, they are going to have a fairly high humidity. Seal them in and let the weather happen, and temperature dropping 40degrees F in 10 minutes are not unusual as a blue northern blows in, and you have a major condensation problem in your wall. Considering that I have watched fire ants eat through concrete, I do not believe that it is possible to seal the critters out of any wall, eventually they will be in your bale wall. I make it a habit to test materials in the harshest kind of tests before I build with them. I want to know how much damage the weather can do to them. I have been hit once already by a tornado, winds of 130 mph have happened more than once. Buildings do get damaged in storms, it takes time to repair the damage, especially since the living must be cared for first. If the trees and plants need attention or if the shelters for the animals need attention, that must be done before the house. In an ideal world you may be able to keep your bales perfect, but I don't live there. Bright Blessings, Kim At 04:24 PM 9/12/2004, you wrote: But straw bale building relies on the straw being encased in a water/vermin-proof wrap. Leaving a bale outside I think, is not a valid test. regards Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] Questions on the 'Other' election (Australia)
Quoting Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Australian elections are much different to US elections: There is not even a sure bet that either potential PM will be re-elected to his seat! (although I cannot remember a time when this has ever happened...) Personally, I am not enamoured with either candidate. We really need a Statesman to lead our country, but I fear both potential leaders are overawed by the US. Let's not forget that Mark Latham once referred to Bush as the most dangerous and incompetent president in living memory* although he has since toned down his language to appeal to a greater portion of the general public. Unfortunately I believe in any case that he supports the Free (not fair) Trade Agreement. Cheers, David *http://www.education.theage.com.au/pagedetail.asp?intpageid=1349strsection=studentsintsectionid=0 This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Find List Soruce
Hello Wanda, Irrigation is one of our primary focal points. Small stills for ethanol fuel production by the farmer should replace the more expensive optional irrigation power sources. In Texas it is also a legal way to not pay taxes on fuel ethanol because it is used directly for farm use and not road use. Now that the emails are sent in behalf of people, how are we to reply off list? I would like to visit with you about our services as I'm not sure that it is appropriate to use the list as a business discussion. We have a brochure and standard questionnaire that helps both of us know how we can cooperate. You make the fuel from your waste biomass. As of today, we have coalitions started in Texas, Georgia, and Nebraska. We have contracts pending in other parts of Texas and Mississippi. We are discussing projects with many other locations as well including five foreign countries. It makes sense to have small coalitions and cooperatives. Biofuel does not have to be big business to be useful, predictable, cost savings, or business-like. When enough of us work together we are a force multiplier. Our company president has a funny thing to add to his messages. George's Rules of Size Exclusion: Rule 1: All else being equal, size will dominate the market. Rule 2: Size don't matter if you can sell it cheaper than he can make it. Best wishes, and I hope that you can figure out how to contact me off list. Peggy Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wanda Valentine Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Find List Soruce -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peggy Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 9:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Find List Soruce Peggy are you looking to help farmers in rural USA a way to develope bio-fuel without having to wait on Uncle Sam? If so I would like to know more on this. We have the land and the water rights. We have to pump water. This adds to the cost of corps. I want to open a bio-fuel store on Hyw 54. These are just some of my dreams. The farmer works 2 other jobs so he can farm. Wanda P.S. what are the 459 locations of what? Getting an even transition from fossil to renewable is what we should be looking for, Australia has not got it quite right yet. where do i find the diy description of vegetable oil to diesel process please cheers John Please let us know how to find a copy of the 500 poorest counties, especially the rural ones. If anyone has additional information about a rural economic development person, political contact, a local farmer, a feed store, or any other contact information for any of these 459 locations, we may be able to do more good than government to build their self-sufficiency, self esteem, self-reliance, quality of life, or whatever you want to call biofuels in action. Also, the ecological impact may displace or lighten the environmental burden caused by the wealthy sectors. In my opinion, Greater Rural Opportunity and Work means understanding options, selecting a doable plan, and rolling up one's sleeves, by the people, of the people, and for the people. With the Internet, perhaps this can be done with or without centralized government assistance. All the talk about politicians is empowering them. Whoever wins, I would like to disempower the man and the system. Biofuels use and production is such an opportunity. Best wishes, Peggy Kerry Pledges to Help Struggling Rural Communities Achieve Economic Sustainability 8/16/2004 Of the nation's 500 poorest counties, 459 are rural. Kerry and Edwards have developed a detailed plan for turning this situation around. Just a few areas of the plan include: Encouraging Investment In Rural America through The Greater Rural Opportunity and Work (GROW) Initiative to bring venture capital and management expertise to small town America; Investing more in renewable energy sources such as biodiesel and ethanol; insuring ranchers and farmers receive a profit from the marketplace... Edwards Unveils Kerry-Edwards Economic Plan for Rural America; Announces Greater Rural Opportunity and Work (GROW) Initiative http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID=34769 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] positive changes in western KS
I was happy to hear a few radio adds in Indiana about the benefits of B02 while visiting family in the MidWest. I really hope the message gets accross! I'm lucky to like in a climate that is both politically and enviromentally open to Biofuels. I drive a Mercedes Diesel running B100 I buy at an ACME fueling station in Olympia, WA. It's hard to change people's opinions, but the Biofuel seed is planted here, and taking root! Pardon the pun ;-) BioDRobin - Original Message - From: Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: [Biofuel] positive changes in western KS I am pleasantly surprised at how things have changed the last few years out here in western Kansas. I work for the petroleum department of a large farmers coop and we are finally offering dyed B2. The cost is 1 cent over conventional dyed fuel so it is taking a little time for farmers to get on board. CENEX has helped by offering a 5 cent rebate to get things started, but I don't know how long that will continue. We have even had a few over the road truckers ask for biodiesel. Those that have been exposed to it comment on cooler running engines, etc. It is just a matter of education and exposure. We have sold gasohol for years at the same price as unleaded but still have people that don't like it. One old boy insists he can smell the difference in the exhaust so he won't use it. Change is hard for some people. If we would only offer ethanol they would slowly come around. Either way, there are ethanol plants popping up all over do to economic incentives from the state. Nebraska has done an excellent job, I wish Kansas could keep up their pace. Thanks for all the hard work and remember, if you elect an oil man be ready to for all the baggage that comes with him. stujo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Find List Soruce
Hello Wanda, Irrigation is one of our primary focal points. Small stills for ethanol fuel production by the farmer should replace the more expensive optional irrigation power sources. In Texas it is also a legal way to not pay taxes on fuel ethanol because it is used directly for farm use and not road use. Now that the emails are sent in behalf of people, how are we to reply off list? I would like to visit with you about our services as I'm not sure that it is appropriate to use the list as a business discussion. We have a brochure and standard questionnaire that helps both of us know how we can cooperate. You make the fuel from your waste biomass. Thankyou for that, instead of just doing it. I think you've got it right. If it's something to be shared, it's best onlist, general discussion, onlist, once it gets private, or of no interest to other than the two parties, or business dealings, offlist. Can't make rules about it because they don't work, each situation is different, but the principle is easy enough to apply, as you did. Advertising is not banned though. This is what it says in the rules - again, more of a principle: Advertising of goods or services related to biofuels is not banned but should be kept to a minimum. This is a privilege, not a right, and it should be proportional to a member's contribution to normal discussions. There are also other issues involved. If in doubt it's best to ask the list administration first. Re email addresses, they're disguised in the list archives (anti-spam), but not in the messages you receive by email, so it shouldn't be a problem. This is safe enough, it foils the spam spiders. But Wanda has apparently opted to hide her email address too, one of the options members have. So nobody can see it. That's her prerogative, but it means you can't get hold her, you'll have to hope she sees your message and contacts you offlist. Normally, unless members have done that, there should be no problem with offlist comms. As of today, we have coalitions started in Texas, Georgia, and Nebraska. We have contracts pending in other parts of Texas and Mississippi. We are discussing projects with many other locations as well including five foreign countries. It makes sense to have small coalitions and cooperatives. Biofuel does not have to be big business to be useful, predictable, cost savings, or business-like. Have you trawled the archives for more information about this, Peggy? That's been the list's drift from the start, and there's been a lot of good discussion about it since then. I'm very pleased to see you saying this. I hope this discussion continues. It's often said here that merely substituting biofuels for fossil fuels is not an answer, it also requires great reductions in energy use, great improvement in energy efficiency, and probably most important, decentralisation of supply. Still, we're not against big business, nor necessarily pro small business, you can't use that broad a brush. The usual response of big business though is not very surprising. Try a search here for Noyes if you want an interesting read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Briefly, Graham Noyes, VP-Sales of World Energy, viewed backyard mavericks as a peril to biodiesel, though they could be useful for publicity purposes (if you could discipline them). This was also the view of the NBB. Graham came to us to drum up support for soy subsidies, and got something of a surprise. When it emerged that we didn't exactly think the NBB and its members were the answers to all our problems he told us we were anti-biodiesel! But Graham ended up being forced to change his mind about a lot of things, to retract quite a lot of what he'd said, admitting it was without foundation, and he had the good grace to apologise, which earned him a lot of respect, of course. He also undertook to try to educate industry about small brewers. Now he heads the NBB's small producer working group, or I think he heads it, he's certainly a mover there. Such a group would previously have been unthinkable. It's been making some progress, but they still haven't really grasped what the grass roots as they call it is all about, nor its needs. Give this a read too, about just who it is that's a peril to biodiesel, the big producers or the mavericks: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31476/ Meanwhile, it's impossible to be accurate about it, which is at it should be, but at the most conservative estimate the grass roots have sent millions of dollars' worth of good local brew straight under the radar screen and into the fuel tank, and nobody's even noticed yet. Not just in the US, it's worldwide. We're right out of control. You might find these interesting, if you haven't see them before: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37387/ How much fuel can we grow? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37386/ How much land does it need?
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
let~s consider nitrous oxide and the diesel, or more correctly, the turbo-diesel. To begin, a turbo-diesel has no air throttle. It is free to intake as much air as it can draw, or the turbochager can supply, on every intake stroke. Therefore, hot rodding the diesel is a matter of supplying the engine with as much fuel as can burned by the air available at maximum power. In fact, you can overfuel a diesel in the quest for power, but that results in excessive exhaust gas temperatures that will kill the turbocharger and the engine. It also results in black smoke from the exhaust (see Why EGT is Important Tech_whyegt.cfm elsewhere on this site). Let~s assume you~ve modified your turbo-diesel to the point that it is overfueled and belching black smoke under a full load. What can you do? One solution is to add nitrous oxide injection, but in this case, you would not add extra fuel because you~re already too rich. Three things happen when you do this. First, the extra oxygen from the nitrous oxide leans out the mixture and the black smoke will be reduced or eliminated. Second, the excess fuel will now be burned for extra power. And third, exhaust temperatures will decline since less afterburning of fuel will occur in the exhaust manifold and the intercooling effect on the intake air will drop the exhaust temperature by a roughly equal amount. When you think about it, adding nitrous oxide injection to a diesel is easier than adding it to a gas engine because you don~t have to mess with adding extra fuel. In fact, there~s no point in doing it unless you~re already in an overfueled condition. http://www.bankspower.com/tech_nitrousoxide.cfm = = = Original message = = = Do they have NOS for diesel cars too??? If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel
Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar.
Actually I have put a bottle of water in my solar funnel cooker and left it out at night when the temperature was in the 50F and had ice form. It will only do it for me on a real clear night, it does not work on a cloudy night. Bright Blessings, Kim At 05:12 PM 9/15/2004, you wrote: Hi, But, to create ice wouldn't that require the night time temperatures to get to freezing? Even if the goal was to cool a heat sink, power is still would be required. Doug - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar. : : : : : Greetings to all. : : A new member here. : : If you have clear skies at night most of the time, solar panels can be used in reverse to radiate heat all night long. Circulate anti freeze from them : to your block of ice during the night and use the ice in the usual way. Not shure how much heat you can get rid of in this way. A calculation or : experiment is in order. The panels could be used for heat gain during the day in their usual way. Mount on top of your dirt mound for shade. : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 09/06/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar.
Actually, ice will from even if the ambient air temp is above freezing. How much above depends on humidity and other sources nearby of radiant heat transfer. RADIANT heat transfer, which is a different process than conductive or convective heat transfer. The ice forms because of radiant heat loss to the super cold reaches of space. The Egyptians knew this, and made ice this way. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
I would contribute a donation for that. What was the outcome on the Genset ? What method did you use or try ? Carl From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:50:37 -0400 They can have him. Where do we send donations for the plane tickets? - Original Message - From: wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll Since most of the world is more socialist than democratic and does not like the US way of life in the first place, of course they would want the candidate that would be most destructive to the US. Just my opinion! Wayne --- MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most countries want Kerry in White House Sep 9, 2004 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-9-2004_pg4_2 WASHINGTON: A majority of people in 30 of 35 countries want Democratic party flagbearer John Kerry in the White House, according to a survey released Wednesday showing US President George W Bush rebuffed by all of America's traditional allies. On average, Senator Kerry was favored by more than a two-to-one margin - 46 percent to 20 percent, the survey by GlobeScan Inc, a global research firm, and the local University of Maryland, showed. Only one in five want to see Bush reelected, said Steven Kull, the university's program on international policy attitudes. Though he is not as well known, Kerry would win handily if the people of the world were to elect the US president. The only countries where Bush was preferred in the poll covering a total of 34,330 people and conducted in July and August were the Philippines, Nigeria and Poland. India and Thailand were divided. The margin of error in the survey covering all regions of the world ranged from plus or minus 2.3 to five percent. Kerry was strongly preferred among all of America's traditional allies, including Norway (74 percent compared with Bush's seven percent), Germany (74 percent to 10 percent), France (64 percent to five percent), the Netherlands (63 percent to six percent), Italy (58 percent to 14 percent) and Spain (45 percent to seven percent). Even in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair is Bush's closest ally in the war on terror, Kerry trounced the incumbent 47 percent to 16 percent. Kerry was also greatly favored among Canadians by 61 percent to Bush's 16 percent and among the Japanese by 43 percent to 23 percent. Even among countries that have contributed troops to Iraq, most favored Kerry, and said that their view of US foreign policy has gotten worse under Bush. They included Britain, the Czech Republic, Italy, the Netherlands, the Dominican Republic, Thailand, Kazakhstan, Japan, Norway and Spain. Asked how President Bush's foreign policy had affected their feelings towards the United States, a majority of those polled in 31 countries said it made them feel worse about America, while those in only three countries said it had made them feel better. Perhaps most sobering for Americans is the strength of the view that US foreign policy is on the wrong track, even in countries contributing troops in Iraq, said GlobeScan President Doug Miller. In Europe, the exception for Bush was a new ally, Polland, where he was preferred by a narrow majority of 31 percent against Kerry's 26 percent. Another new European ally, the Czech Republic, however went for Kerry (42 percent to Bush's 18 percent) as did Sweden (58 percent to 10 percent). Asia was the most mixed region, though Kerry still did better. Aside from enjoying a large margin in Japan, he was preferred by clear majorities in China (52 percent to Bush's 12 percent) and Indonesia (57 percent to 34 percent). But those polled were divided in India (Kerry 34 percent, Bush 33 percent) and Thailand (Kerry 30 percent, Bush 33 percent). Latin Americans went for Kerry in all nine countries polled. In only two cases did Kerry win by a large majority - Brazil (57 percent to 14 percent) and the Dominican Republic (51 percent to 38 percent) - but in most cases the spread was quite wide. Global Poll Shows a Kerry Landslide Poll finds him preferred around world by Thomas Crampton September 8, 2004 by the International Herald Tribune http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0908-03.htm Another pattern that became apparent in studying the data was that those people with higher education and more income were more strongly in favor of Kerry, Kull said. Those at the top of world society are more negative towards Bush than those at the bottom, Kull said. The most
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
no, who care about that or another party.it is matter of USA ! World is simple against Bush due to his arrogance and nonrespecting any International Institut including United Nation!!! US is power No. 1, so Bush can do what he wish.and that is a big mistake Nobody can be alone today against whole world! But he will left this position, now or 4 years later...world is going onhe will stay in memory as most stupid american presidentand many thousands people around the world will die do to him, including american soldier too..that is all... HS Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:My opinion is that most would like to see a true Liberal Democratic President who will protect their rights as minorities in the world arena. --- wayne wrote: Since most of the world is more socialist than democratic and does not like the US way of life in the first place, of course they would want the candidate that would be most destructive to the US. Just my opinion! Wayne = Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
but rather para-dicholorobenzene, combustion of which results in large amounts of hydrogen chloride formation- definitely not good for anything metallic. Steve Spence wrote: moth balls (naphtha) have been put in air cleaners for added oomph, but I wouldn't recommend it. - Original Message - From: Saul Juliao [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Hi all, This method of cleaning out the crud sounds similar to a technique used up here in Canada for cleaning out the soot from an oil fired stove in a fishing ice hut. Start the oil stove, bring it up to a hot heat, then throw in a dozen moth balls. The stove will then start sucking in as much are as possible and will suddenly start making a wolfing sound. It tends to start moving up and down a little (the stove). At this point you leave the hut and watch the soot come flying out of the chimney or the stove blows up. I have seen it done several times, the stove and the chimney both seem to be cleaned out nicely. Scary, and dangerous ... oh well could not help it Saul A. Juliao Andres Yver wrote: On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 05:06 PM, Keith Addison wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government Agendas -was: Kerry preferred around World - Poll
The reason the government is promoting ethanol production is because of the farm lobby. In general the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and distill ethanol require the input of more energy than is obtained from the ethanol produced. Ken --- MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP I would love to be able to present a results focused paper for consideration. That is where the real power in change lies--not in who is elected and dancing to perceived public opinion. Peggy Kerry Pledges to Help Struggling Rural Communities Achieve Economic Sustainability http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID=34769 I find it interesting that a number of states such as Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, North South Dakota, California, Nebraska to name few around the USA have introduced alternative biofuel such as ethanol into not only the government transportation mix but also to the public which may have had something to do with public opinion or was there some other reasons for it. A previous Subject: Re: [biofuel] 81% of US support Climate Stewardship Act Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0628-11.htm indicates to me which candidate for POTUS would likely take more interest in biofuels - the Bush Cheney oil administration -or- Kerry Edwards. Public support is also strong for using tax incentives to encourage utility companies to use cleaner energy technologies and car-buyers to purchase more energy-efficient cars, according to the survey, which was conducted by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA). Moreover, slightly more than half of respondents (52 percent) said a candidate's support for the cutting emissions would incline them more to vote for them in November, while only 14 percent said that such support would make them less inclined to vote for him. Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has endorsed the bill, officially known as the Climate Stewardship Act (CSA), while President George W. Bush opposes it. Nearly two-thirds of respondents (64 percent) said they would want their member of Congress to support the Kyoto Protocol, which is also supported by Kerry but opposed by Bush. This News Archive http://www.bbibiofuels.com/news/ might be of interest but probably not for the small producer. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again Donald As an aside, I am puzzled as to why there is so much emphasis being placed on the Hydrogen Economy at the moment, especially by the US government. Hydogen is just a way of storing and transporting energy, just as are biofuels. OK, I realise that fuel cells can theoretically deliver a greater whole-cycle efficiency than biofuels, but it seems to me that a lot of money is being spent on something that probably won't give us a cost-effective solution for at least 20 years - given that there are still a large number of technical hurdles without totally satisfactory solutions. As an big 'Oil Man' from texas, I think Bush likes the Hydrogen idea because the power is still in his hands rather than the consumer. Assuming we can produce hydrogen in a more cost effective way than electrolysis at some point in the future, it's a turn-key business for gas stations, but mainly for the government. Instead of the customer needing less fuel and saving money that way, we'll still need to refuel like we do now and that fuel can be taxed and priced exactly as gasoline is now. That will have the most minimal impact on the 'economy' and the big oil companies can step right up and capitalize on the opportunity to make about the same profits. - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar.
Hi all, As I understand it, the nighttime sky looks like a 4 degree Kelvin source. (going from memory here) A well designed solar panel is insulated so that the ENERGY goes in and out only by RADIATION from the front and by CONDUCTION to the working fluid. ENERGY that leaves a black body (the solar panel) is balanced by the ENERGY coming to it when at equilibrium. If the panel was in outer space and not facing the sun it would cool down to 4 degrees above absolute zero when there was no heat input from the working fluid. Here on earth the atmosphere reflects heat energy radiated from the earth, back to the earth (the green house effect) so a perfect black body at night with a perfectly transparent window and perfect insulation would still not get down to 4 degrees K. But it will defiantly get well below freezing. In fact most solar panels need to be protected from freezing even in the summer.So it will make ice, the question is how much and is it worth the investment. If solar heat is needed during the day, then this would be an added use for the collectors. Air could be the working fluid and the thermal mass of the cool room could be the storage medium (instead of ice) then the system gets simpler. Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] net cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar. biofuel-bounces@ wwia.org 09/15/2004 03:12 PM Please respond to biofuel Hi, But, to create ice wouldn't that require the night time temperatures to get to freezing? Even if the goal was to cool a heat sink, power is still would be required. Doug - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar. : : : : : Greetings to all. : : A new member here. : : If you have clear skies at night most of the time, solar panels can be used in reverse to radiate heat all night long. Circulate anti freeze from them : to your block of ice during the night and use the ice in the usual way. Not shure how much heat you can get rid of in this way. A calculation or : experiment is in order. The panels could be used for heat gain during the day in their usual way. Mount on top of your dirt mound for shade. : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 09/06/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
Kinda depends on how you define true liberal HS. There would be no USA if it's founders where the conservatives of their age instead, of the liberals of their age. The true liberal is NOT the far left winger, the radical right would have us believe. The radical right has successfully bastardized the meaning of liberal in the context of politics, so it can no longer be used in it's honorable context. Doug - Original Message - From: HS Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll : My opinion is that most would like to see a true : Liberal Democratic President who will protect their : rights as minorities in the world arena. : : --- wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : : Since most of the world is more socialist than : democratic and does not like the US way of life in : the : first place, of course they would want the candidate : that would be most destructive to the US. : : Just my opinion! : Wayne : : : : = : Regards, : : HS Wong : Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com : Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org : You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com : : : : : : ___ : Do you Yahoo!? : Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! : http://vote.yahoo.com : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 09/06/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] positive changes in western KS
I wish Montana could see the forest (for the trees), and simply start.talk about change being hard!! We hope to contribute to that change though but getting the wheels turning is a very slow process. Starting with Wind for now but will be adding much more in the very near future and hopefully giving our farmers and Ag communities a badly needed shot in the arm. Pleasant weekend to all. Dave New Harvest Energy - Original Message - From: Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:27 AM Subject: [Biofuel] positive changes in western KS I am pleasantly surprised at how things have changed the last few years out here in western Kansas. I work for the petroleum department of a large farmers coop and we are finally offering dyed B2. The cost is 1 cent over conventional dyed fuel so it is taking a little time for farmers to get on board. CENEX has helped by offering a 5 cent rebate to get things started, but I don't know how long that will continue. We have even had a few over the road truckers ask for biodiesel. Those that have been exposed to it comment on cooler running engines, etc. It is just a matter of education and exposure. We have sold gasohol for years at the same price as unleaded but still have people that don't like it. One old boy insists he can smell the difference in the exhaust so he won't use it. Change is hard for some people. If we would only offer ethanol they would slowly come around. Either way, there are ethanol plants popping up all over do to economic incentives from the state. Nebraska has done an excellent job, I wish Kansas could keep up their pace. Thanks for all the hard work and remember, if you elect an oil man be ready to for all the baggage that comes with him. stujo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] The Chemical Wars, Part 3
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37783/ #798 -- The Chemical Wars, Part 1, August 19, 2004 http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/38111/ #799 -- The Chemical Wars, Part 2, September 02, 2004 -- http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/index.cfm?issue_ID=2471 #800 -- The Chemical Wars, Part 3, September 16, 2004 by Peter Montague [Continuing: We have been describing the philosophy of environmental regulation in the U.S. Basically, it is a prove harm system -- anything goes until someone can line up the dead bodies and prove that significant harm is occurring. When that happens, which is rare, then a multi-year, or multi-decade, battle begins in which underfunded and understaffed government regulators bargain with a phalanx of corporate lawyers and scientists-for-hire. Eventually they hammer out a compromise between public health and corporate purposes. The compromise becomes an enforceable regulation --until one corporation or another decides to mount a challenge and the dance begins anew. The prove harm system rests on three assumptions: (1) Humans can determine the assimilative capacity of every population of humans and animals and every ecosystem on Earth -- the capacity to absorb damage without suffering permanent, serious harm. (2) Once the assimilative capacity of a river, or a population of humans or birds, has been determined, we will set regulatory controls to keep the harm within acceptable limits; and (3) We already know which substances and activities are harmful or, in the case of activities we never suspected were harmful, we will we warned of possible dangers by traumatic but sublethal shocks. Obviously the system really hinges on assumption #1 -- that we can determine the assimilative capacity of an ecosystem, or of a population of polar bears or humans. For this purpose, a special technique has been developed called risk assessment. Risk assessment is the linchpin of the prove harm regulatory system, and the main intellectual armor of industrial polluters. But this emperor is wearing no clothes. Let's take a look.] Of course there's nothing wrong with trying to assess risks. We all do it every day. But there's an important difference between our own personal risk assessments and corporate/governmental risk assessments. When we assess risk in our own lives, (a) we examine risks that we ourselves are willing to take; (b) we compare our options; and (c) we use all available information; and (d) we weigh not only the risks we face but also the benefits. For example, we might ask ourselves, Can I just dash across this street in the middle of the block, or, given the shoes I'm wearing and the arthritis in my left knee, should I walk to the corner and cross with the light? Is saving a minute or two worth the risk of being hit by a truck? We compare risks and benefits, we assess our alternatives, we consider all the available information, and we weigh the risks we ourselves are willing to take. In contrast, corporate risk assessors almost always (a) assess the dangers of a single pre-determined option, and (b) assess dangers that they intend to impose on others, usually without their informed consent; and (c) examine only the scientifically-proven evidence, ignoring other kinds of information such as historical precedents, worker knowledge, and community preferences; and (d) ignore the benefits (or lack of them) to those who will be enduring the dangers. Basically, the main use of corporate/governmental risk assessment is to establish how much damage corporations and governments can get away with and to label that damage acceptable.[1] Typical questions that corporate/governmental risk assessments answer would include, How much dioxin can aluminum smelters discharge into the Columbia River basin without thinning the Bald Eagle population to extinction? How many trout can families along Lake Michigan eat each month before their children's IQs are diminished 5 points? How much benzene can we maintain in the air of this factory without killing more than 1 in every 10,000 workers? Will this urban trash incinerator kill no more than one in each million citizens who breathe its fumes? Risk assessment serves corporate purposes because it involves large quantities of scientific data, all of it subject to limitations and uncertainties that can be disputed forever without resolution. Where data are lacking or disputed, assumptions and judgments must be substituted for facts. The National Academy of Sciences put it politely when it said, Risk assessment techniques are highly speculative, and almost all rely on multiple assumptions of fact -- some of which are entirely untestable.[2] In 1983 the National Academy identified at least 50 points during the course of a cancer risk assessment where choices had to be made on the basis of professional judgment, not science.[3] Corporate scientists-for-hire can select and
