[Biofuel] Biofuels Workshop - October 25-27
FYI.. -Original Message- From: BBI International [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: Biofuels Workshop: Register by October 4 and Save! http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/bwt1.jpg Biofuels are becoming the cornerstone of a carbohydrate economy, where biology, not geology, furnishes the fuels and materials needed for industrial societies. http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif -David Morris, Vice President, Institute for Local Self-Reliance and Author of The Carbohydrate Economy _ The excitement is building for the first-ever regional conference that will focus on near-term commercial-scale ethanol and biodiesel production and use . . . http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/biofuels-logo2.jpg Biofuels Workshop Trade Show Western Pacific Region Hyatt Regency Sacramento Sacramento, California, USA October 25-27, 2004 http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/bwt2.jpg http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/bwt3.jpg http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/bwt4.jpg http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif DISTINCTIVE PROGRAM AGENDA! http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif Along with David Morris, the program is host to industry experts, influential stakeholders and visionaries. Presentation topics include the future of the biofuels industry, the development of ethanol and biodiesel production facilities, the auto industry's perspective on biofuels use and new opportunities, plus special panel discussions that address the needs in establishing a biofuels industry. A complete agenda is posted online. To learn more about the program agenda and the topics to be discussed visit www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/agenda http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/agenda http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif EARLY BIRD REGISTRATION SPECIAL HOTEL ROOM RATE - October 4! http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif Register before October 4 to receive a discounted registration rate. (Government rates are also available). Register on-line, www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/ http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/ Reserve your hotel room on-line at http://sacramento.hyatt.com/groupbooking/bbii http://sacramento.hyatt.com/groupbooking/bbii or 800-233-1234 and mention Biofuels Workshop to receive the special rate of US$129. http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif THE TRADE SHOW IS SOLD OUT! http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif Visit and network with over 40 companies exhibiting at the Trade Show. The list of exhibitors is posted at www.bbibiofuelsworkshop.com/biofuels/exhibitors-list http://www.bbibiofuelsworkshop.com/biofuels/exhibitors-list http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif Major - Genencor International Event - General Motors, Novozymes, Stoel Rives, Praj Industries, Dallas Group, United Bio Energy, Genencor International Supporting - AGRIS, Astle Corp., Biodiesel Magazine, Ethanol Producer Magazine To learn about sponsorship opportunities please contact Anne Wester, Sponsorship Coordinator, at 719-942-4353 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif Supported by: - California Energy Commission - California Department of Food Agriculture - California Resources Agency - California Biomass Collaborative - California Department of Forestry Fire Protection - California Integrated Waste Management Board - Hawaii Department of Business, Economic Development Tourism - Nevada State Energy Office- U.S. Department of Agriculture-Rural Development - U.S. Department of Energy http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/spacer.gif We look forward to seeing you in Sacramento. For more information about the Biofuels Workshop Trade Show please contact BBI International, Conference Presenters. BBI International Conference Meeting Planning [Logo] http://www.bbibiofuels.com/biofuelsworkshop/art/bbi.jpg Shaping the Industry BBI International PO Box 159 Cotopaxi, CO 81223 719-942-4353 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bbibiofuels.com http://www.bbibiofuels.com/ This message was intended for: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You were added to the database June 14, 2004. For more information click http://emessaging.vertexcommunication.com/subscribe/source.htm?email=steven [EMAIL PROTECTED]cid=8e5284dd112f6986a428355e479b78 here. Update
Re: [Biofuel] the 'Other' election (Australia)
Hey Ron, Are you aware of the impact that the FTA will have on our health system here?? == Howdy Michael, I suppose with any FTA, there is a lot of positives/negatives that can be bantered about from every angle. I was thinking more in terms of agriculture since this list is based partly on agriculture. No matter what the outcome, there will always be a spot in my refrigerator for some bottles of Australian Fosters. 8~) Ron B. -Si vis pacem, para bellum- (Vegetius) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Keeping older vehicles on the road - was Re: [Biofuel] good reading
Hi, I would just like everyone to consider what happens to their car after they trade it in on a new vehicle. More than likely it will be sold to someone else and still spend years on the road, then it will be taken to a salvage yard where parts will be taken from it. I know alot of times these parts will be put onto newer vehicles if the parts will interchange. The vehicle is crushed, and hauled to another location, where it is either recrushed smaller or melted down. Of course, all the plastic, rubber, and glass burns away. Then what is left may be shipped overseas to make another car. The iron and steel are melted to become different parts of a new car. These parts are then painted and assembled. Then, of course, the car is loaded on a ship to come back the to US, and trucked to a car lot. So, at this point, a new car has tons of embedded energies and emissions. With that being said, I don't know how, even with the new cars having better emissions, there could possibly be a savings in emissions. Sure, it is great for the car company for you to buy a new car, but for the environment, I don't see how it could be. Now, if you were to put the 2004 computer controlled induction and ignition system and catalytic converter on the old car (this may require you to change the engine). Also, if you are able to use the old engine, then consider freshening it up a bit. Then you should have new car emissions without the heavy price to the environment of building a new car. I have often thought about why someone doesn't offer a kit to upgrade the emissions of cars (obviously, it is not in the best interest of the car companies, they are too busy convincing everyone that their new cars will save the world), and in fact some states even have laws against it. I guess that it would make too much sense to recycle what we have instead of always building new. Anyway, that is my 2 cents, I hope that I didn't make anyone too mad with this. -Al On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Donald Allwright wrote: There is a point that's worth repeating here regarding older vehicles: Most cars use more energy in the manufacture than they do in fuel consumption over their entire lives - so as a rule the best way to reduce the energy balance of vehicles is to make them last as long as you can. If your concern is just the energy use, then try and keep the older vehicles working as long as possible. They are not quite as efficient, but the excess energy use is far less than that used to manufacture a new car you might replace it with. Also, keeping an older vehicle on the road is a great way of providing local employment - much better than just buying a new vehicle and using loads of primary resources. OK, the same may not be true for some of the exhaust pipe pollutants, as older cars are often a lot more polluting (due to lack of catalytic converters, a less optimised combustion process etc). So while in rural areas these pollutants may not be seen to be a major problem, in urban areas they certainly will be. Donald --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- tommy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a good reading piece if your wondering about why it's pretty much a waste to try to get those Cheap running junkers working and focus on new tech engines. Thank you for posting that link. I enjoyed reading it. But I disagree with your conclusions. As nice as a new diesel is I am still going to keep my 23 year old audi diesel. Once you consider that I only have about $500 into it not counting fuel or oil changes and that it gets 50 mpg I don't see how the new ones are any better. But of course they're much fancier, with all the electronics and latest options. The new ones will also blow mine off the road for speed and power. But those don't concern me. I know that for a lot of people they are very important, and those are the ones that I would try to talk into getting a newer one. The old ones also use very simple technology, which for me means that I can fix it all myself without taking it in. Not including the injection pump, of course. (Though I do have the computer scanners to be able to do everything on the newer ones as well, but that's cause it's what I do. Just saying that most people can work on the older ones and the newer ones become harder and more complicated.) I'm all for diesels. I love them. And the new ones have a lot of nice advantages. I really wish that with 20+ years of technology advancements it would have that much better fuel mileage than mine, but they just don't. I just don't see all that as a reason to abandon the old ones. If I can at all I will drive these old tech ones for many years more. The only thing I see stopping me is them getting wrecked. Just my opinion, of course. Erik This tech is what the Big fuel petro industrial fuel suppliers will get the gov to back instead of bio-fuel,
[Biofuel] cloudy Biodiesel...
Hi, I have been making some small trial batches of Biodiesel, and had pretty good success.. nice reaction, clear fuel, then refined with washing etc (water and vinegar).. still nice and clear.. however, I notice that when I made a large batch (approx. 175 litres) the fuel at the bottom (after I had removed the glycerine from the tank) appeared to have some sort of crystals at the bottom of the container, that looked a little like miso soup.. cloudy at the bottom, clear at the top.. the crystals (I'll call them that, given that's what they look like - I doubt they *are* crystals) dissolve back into the fuel, when the fuel is warmed.. I thought this might be the normal higher cloud point of Biodiesel...but they re-appear when the fuel is back to normal room temperature. just wondering if anyone has seen this too.. or could provide an idea as to the cause. many thanks in advance.. regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Client IT Architect IBM Business Consulting Services Level 24, 60 City Rd. Melbourne, VIC 3000 Phone: +61-3-8646 5346 Fax: +61-3-9626 6010 Mobile:+61-402 000 980 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
a community level supplying their own needs and selling the excess. Now, that's a doable plan. Peggy Bravo Peggy! Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Party of Citizens Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 2:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion Let's think big ... really big. What if we had a global energy plan, paid for by all nations so we could think in terms of trillions in spending? One has to then wonder about the cost-benefit of solar collectors at Mercury, relaying solar-energy (by microwaves?) to Venus, then to Earth and on to Moonshine City, Mars and so on. Z http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens - Original Message - From: robert harder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion The hydrogen economy is being pushed because it is favored by the current oil companies, the cheapest source of hydrogen is oil and therefore snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: Farmer's Lobby UPDATE
I have quotes from some of the big guys for what they consider a Minimum size turnkey ethanol plant, and the numbers are scary. The way I break it down, their quotes are around $4.50 - $5.00 per gallon of annual ethanol capacity. That translates to a small 5 million gallon/year distillery costing about $25 million. They would much rather build a 50 million gallon/year distillery for about $200 million, since the same time and energy is expended in designing each. === Folks, Corn = Maize MGY = million gallons per year 50 million gallons = 189,271,000 liters On a previous reply earlier today, I was not correct by stating that the above 200 million costs were 4 times inflated (my estimate was $50 mill). An actual estimate below comes to $79,499,800 for a new 50 MGY plant. I would like to know if the turnkey distillery that Peggy was thinking about above, would use a wet mill or dry mill process. That could mean a great deal on costs per gallon of ethanol produced. A wet mill is more expensive to build and operate. New natural gas fired 50 MGY DRY mill plant quoted start up costs for ground breaking early next year (in $USD): Plant construction- 60,264,881 Land Development-3,630,000 Railroad tracks- 2,435,000 Admin building- 210,000 Office Equipment- 75,000 Computers,software- 100,000 Construction bond- 500,000 Const. insurance-120,000 Const. Contingency-1,009,919 Fire protect water 840,000 Capitalized interest- 1,350,000 Rolling stock- 320,000 Start up costs-8,645,000 Total 79,499,800 Start up costs would be such items as fuel, corn feedstock inventories, financing costs, pre-production costs, working capital, chemicals, ingredients, and spare parts. 1) Let us remember that the 50 MGY output is a 'guarantee' and that in actual practice from previous plant experiences, the output is around 3 million gallons OVER the guarantee after the first or second year. 2) These plants have all the bells and whistles today with regard to pollution controls and...you won't get a neighbor complaining about the smells. 3) Also, a co-product is produced for sale (protein feed) that can add 20% to the revenue stream. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd from Greg: Re: [biofuel] Cleaning caged poly tanks
Hello All, A question about the IBC need to clean out ? if its only motor oil and less than 5 % why waste the time? We cut used oil into Diesel fuel 4% and final filter thru a DHAL filter slightly over 400 large engines 20 plus years no problems see also Baldwin Filter company and pdf file of recycler . Paul ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Antarctic Glaciers Melting Faster - Study
Antarctic Glacier-Melt Increasing Dramatically By Jeff Nesmith 09/22/04 http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Antarctic-Glacier-Melt-Increasing-Dramatically-36825.html Several theorists and climate modelers predicted as early as the 1970s that global warming would cause ice shelves in the oceans around Antarctica to melt and release glaciers, and that this would increase the amount of ice being pushed into the sea. People thought they were wrong, because they thought those models were simplistic, said glaciologist and remote sensing specialist Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. What we are seeing now is that they were not wrong, he added. They were right. Glaciers Surge When Ice Shelf Breaks Up Sept. 21, 2004 Since 2002, when the Larsen B ice shelf broke away from the coast of the Antarctic Peninsula, scientists have witnessed profound increases in the flow of nearby glaciers into the Weddell Sea. These observations were made possible through NASA, Canadian and European satellite data. For information and images of this research on the Internet, visit: http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2004/0913larsen.html Antarctic Glaciers Melting Faster - Study September 22, 2004 by Reuters http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0922-02.htm WASHINGTON - Glaciers once held up by a floating ice shelf off Antarctica are now sliding off into the sea -- and they are going fast, scientists said on Tuesday. Two separate studies from climate researchers and the space agency NASA show the glaciers are flowing into Antarctica's Weddell Sea, freed by the 2002 breakup of the Larsen B ice shelf. Writing in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the researchers said their satellite measurements suggest climate warming can lead to rapid sea level rise. The teams at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado in Boulder, and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, said the findings also prove that ice shelves hold back glaciers. Many teams of researchers are keeping a close eye on parts of Antarctica that are steadily melting. Large ice shelves in the Antarctic Peninsula disintegrated in 1995 and 2002 as a result of climate warming. But these floating ice shelves did not affect sea level as they melted. Glaciers, however, are another story. They rest on land and when they slide off into the water they instantly affect sea level. It was not clear how the loss of the Larsen B ice shelf would affect nearby glaciers. But soon after its collapse, researchers saw nearby glaciers flowing up to eight times faster than before. If anyone was waiting to find out whether Antarctica would respond quickly to climate warming, I think the answer is yes, said Theodore Scambos, a University of Colorado glacier expert who worked on one study. We've seen 150 miles of coastline change drastically in just 15 years. The affected area is at the far northern tip of the Antarctic, just south of Chile and Argentina. Temperatures there have risen by up to 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit (2.5 degrees C) in the past 60 years -- faster than almost any region in the world. In the past 30 years, ice shelves in the region have lost more than 5,200 square miles of area. The Larsen area can be looked at as a miniature experiment, showing how warming can dramatically change the ice sheets, and how fast it can happen, Scambos said in a statement. At every step in the process, things have occurred more rapidly than we expected. But not all the melting in the Antarctic can be seen as a miniature experiment. The Ross ice shelf, for example, is the main outlet for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, with several large glaciers that could, if they melted completely, raise sea levels by 16 feet. While the consequences of this area are small compared to other parts of the Antarctic, it is a harbinger of what will happen when the large ice sheets begin to warm, Scambos said. The much larger ice shelves in other parts of Antarctica could have much greater effects on the rate of sea level rise. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate - solar.
Hi Joe and All ; Yes this is exactly right. Thank you. I did some searching. There are some web pages on this which I found. The problem with getting significant cooling using a normal solar panel is that normally a solar panel is designed to absorb the energy of the solar spectrum (lots of visible and UV, some IR). Then it must also be designed to prevent re-radiation of the IR due to black body. This is mostly accomplished by putting a piece of glass over the absorber. Glass traps the black body IR inside the panel (it also lowers conduction losses significantly). The absorber by itself is a good radiator, but a properly designed solar panel will trap the black body radiation being radiated from the absorber. So a good solar panel is generally a poor radiator. Kind of like a hot car in the summer sun with the windows closed. The web page I found said the guy had to remove the glass from a simple box collector to make ice. This then exposes the forming ice to the atmospere (and heat). The mans's conclusion was that you could make ice but only on a very cold (a few degrees above freezing)clear night and in still air . This makes sense. Ice formed inside the box collector even when water ouside did not freeze. So apparently there was some cooling going on. Possible that further research could provide materials which can pass IR and at the same time be a good insulator. In Kim's case using a parabolic reflector, the forming ice is in contact with the air. Objects at temperatures around freezing are not radiating much black body radiation. The cooling effect would be swamped by the conduction heat gain from the air. This arrangement could only support a few degrees temperature difference. Some more experiments with temperature tracking inside and outside the reflector, humidity, cloud cover, wind speed, would certainly be worthwhile. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Solar hydrogen - energy of the future 26 August 2004 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/adv/articles/2004/aug/Solar_hydrogen.html A team of Australian scientists predicts that a revolutionary new way to harness the power of the sun to extract clean and almost unlimited energy supplies from water will be a reality within seven years. Solar hydrogen, Professor Sorrell argues, is not incompatible with coal. It can be used to produce solar methanol, which produces less carbon dioxide than conventional methods. As a mid-term energy carrier it has a lot to say for it, he says New Process Could Help Make Hydrogen Fuel Affordable Stephanie Peatling in Sydney for National Geographic News August 27, 2004 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/08/0827_040827_hydrogen_energy.html Scientists in Australia say they have have made a breakthrough in the efficiency of using sunlight to generate hydrogen from water. It may be a step toward an affordable source of clean energy. A renewable source of energy to replace the world's declining fossil fuel reserves is perhaps the scientific community's holy grail. Hydrogen is all around us. It is seen by many as the cleanest and most efficient fuel for powering everything from vehicles to furnaces and air-conditioning÷if only we can find an affordable way to harness it. Now two researchers in Australia say they have made substantial progress. Scientists have known for a long time how to split water into its two elements, oxygen and hydrogen. But the problem is that the process requires electricity÷typically derived from fossil fuels÷which makes the process counterproductive and expensive. Janusz Nowotny and Charles Sorrell are researchers from the Centre for Materials Research in Energy Conversion at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. They have been looking for an economical way to use titanium dioxide to act as a catalyst to split water into oxygen and hydrogen÷using solar energy. The Stuff of Toothpaste Titanium dioxide (TiO2) is widely used as a white pigment in paint, paper, cosmetics, sunscreens, and toothpastes. It is found in its purest form in rutile, a beach sand but is also extracted from certain ores. Rio Tinto, a mining company that produces titanium oxide, helps fund Nowotny's and Sorrell's research. Nowotny and Sorrell announced their breakthrough today at the International Conference on Materials for Hydrogen Energy, hosted by the University of New South Wales in Sydney. They believe they have found a way to considerably improve the productivity of the solar hydrogen process (using sunlight to extract hydrogen from water) using a device made out of titanium dioxide. This is potentially huge, with a market the size of all the existing markets for coal, oil, and gas combined,'' Nowotny said in a news statement released ahead of the conference. Based on our research results, we know we are on the right track. Although Australia's sunny climate makes it an ideal place to generate solar energy, Sorrell said the technology could be used anywhere in the world. It's been the dream of many people for a long time to develop it, and it's exciting to know it's within such close reach, Sorrell said. Honda-Fujishima Effect The Australians' research has not been tested yet by other scientists, although the findings were applauded by the pioneers of the solar hydrogen process, Akira Fujishima and Kenichi Honda. In 1967 the Japanese scientists discovered that titanium dioxide could be used to extract hydrogen from water in a process that has become known as the Honda-Fujishima effect. The finding was reported in the journal Nature and led to numerous awards, including the 2004 Japan Prize in the category Chemical Technology for the Environment. Hydrogen is very simple but very efficient,'' said Fujishima, who is also in Sydney for today's conference. We must keep working hard on it.'' Since the 1967 discovery much research has focused on the materials that might be used to split water with sunlight. Fujishima, chairman of the Kanagawa Academy of Science and Technology, says using titanium dioxide as a catalyst means energy production will result in cleaner air, cleaner water, and a cleaner atmosphere. Many Years to Hydrogen Power The world is still a long way off from large-scale conversion from fossil fuels to hydrogen for its energy needs. For one thing, the Honda-Fujishima effect, even if it is greatly enhanced by the research breakthrough announced today, still has to be adapted into devices that can be used on a commercially viable scale. Engineers will have to design fuel cells that collect sunlight from rooftops and elsewhere. The world's energy infrastructure is primarily based on fossil fuels and nuclear energy. Transitioning from gasoline-powered vehicles and gas stations to hydrogen-fuel replacements would require a
RE: [Biofuel] Slogan
Crisp and to the point Joe. I like it Mani , DVS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How's this? Save the Earth use Biodiesel Joe Original Message Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Slogan From: Ken Provost Date: Sun, September 19, 2004 6:18 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 9/18/04 2:20 PM, Jeff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fossils Fuels are Extinct While Biodiesel is Alive and Growing! Is this a better one? Jeff Still too long, but I'd put a bumper sticker on my Beetle TDI that just said Fossil Fuels are Extinct. Reminds me of my old War is Obsolete sticker -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Oilseeds Likely to Benefit from Boom in Bio-Diesel
Oilseeds Likely to Benefit from Boom in Bio-Diesel As world interest in eco-friendly renewable sources of fuel expands rapidly, more oilseed production or vegetable oil consumption is going towards bio-diesel. This trend has implications for world vegetable oil production and prices in the coming years. Emulating the world`s largest bio-diesel producers and consumers - European Union and Brazil, several developing countries have ventured into bio-diesel production using indigenous plant material. While world production of oilseeds and palm oil is forecast to expand in 2004-05 to 379 million tonnes (mt) and 29.8 mt respectively, consumption too is forecast to grow. Source: Business Line, New Delhi, 3 August 2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] 2004 VW Jetta TDI
Thanks for clearing that up. The other info that I got was probably refering to SVO, but wasn't clear. The info put out was refering to the different pressure in the newer PD fuel injection pump, but even that information wasn't particularly clear. Differences in what the actual pressure is and if it has even changed in the last few years. Hi Mel. The page Keith refered you to probably needs to be updated. As Keith said, in an 2003 TDI or earlier, biodiesel is absolutely fine. However, with regard to the new Pumpe Duse (PD) injection found in the 2004 TDIs, the jury is still out on whether BD is a good idea. It may be fine, but at this point, it simply does not have the track record of the earlier engines. You will find a lot of heated debate on this topic from both sides over at tdiclub.com. You will find lots of definative declarations for both sides, when the truth is somewhere in between. For example, this website http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels-7.html claims that all Audis and VWs, including the PD engines, are B100 compatible. Yet, on the next page, they refer to biodiesel having the proper octane. If they can't tell octane from cetane, I'm not sure I'd trust their other statements. In any case, VWoA does not warranty any fuel issues, biodiesel or petrodiesel. If you got a bad tank of petrodiesel that ruined your injector pump, VW wouldn't cover that either. In my case, my dealership says BD is fine in my 03 Jetta but my father in law was explicitly warned not to put BD into his new 04 Passat. So at the end of the day, the choice is yours. If you choose to run BD in a PD TDI, more power to you. Just be aware that if you have an injector failure down the road, your dealership *may* blame the BD and refuse to cover it. Cheers. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Moderator's message
Thank you Buck, It is nice to find common ground with other normal folks. There are so many uninformed rednecks in this part of South Carolina, and it is nice to belong to a group of educated, thinking people who also know that there is more to intellect than proper spelling and grammar. I am amazed daily at so called normal, average folks who can spell integrity, honesty, independent thinking, sound judgment, etc. but, do not know how to apply it to their daily lives. Then are too proud to ask questions and learn how. Maybe I am just in a bad mood today. Oh well, life continues.. By the way, I am lucky that my spell checker does catch most of my mistakes before my emails go out if not, you would really see what I mean!--- JRD - Original Message - From: Buck Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Moderator's message hi jennifer,immm also multib;e personality,)not really) so i alwlasy have someone to talk to but just not right now,,, wevee had aaan arugment and are not speaking bawaa hahahah,laughingg like a loon,, jenniferr ,u can talk to meee anytime no matter whicha part of the sweing you are on im not laughinnn at oanyone, i am inviting anyone to have a laugh with me, on me for if we can lajgh, perhaps we dont have to cry just yet,,,heads kup , bpck, From: Jennifer Doty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Moderator's message Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:20:46 -0400 Ah, yes. I do understand the world of Bi- Polar. Such a blessing, such a curse, wonderful mood swings, irrational motivations, etc. I've been a diagnosed manic depressive since age 16, but I take comfort in the fact that most genesis have a mental illness. I know I am no genesis, my spelling is worse than Buck's, but I am in good company. - JRD Yes, I change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, that is part of the nature of being Bi-Polar.That is part of who I am. If the list can not accept me for who I am and what positive things I can sometimes offer, ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] storage
Greetings... to all you homebrewers all over the world. We have got 'big oil' shaking in there boots. As we slowly topple there empire. I have been trying to follow the writings on cold storage. My question is, does the storage of biodiesel HAVE to be cold? I just want to set up a 300 gallon tank hidden in the resesses of my barn,up high in the rafters to gravity flow the fuel into my truck. And it will get warm up there. Girl mark, I hope your having good success in you seminars. I did so want to catch one of them. I guess your schedule is in here somewhere. Good luck to the homebrewers of biodiesel all over the world. gary . -- ___ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
I believe you are right in many ways. It is kind of scary. You know history repeats itself, and humans are destined to repeat their mistakes until they learn from them. Much of America is so busy defending our every action and reaction, that we do not learn from our mistakes, or change our ways of dealing with important issues. We are destined to keep repeating mistakes made in history, as long as we remain so stubborn and proud. We have to be willing to say Hey, we did not handle this right, how can we do this better or Hey, this was not right when so and so did it, so why do we think we have the right to act this way? Yet as a nation we are too proud. This blind patriotism is thought from day one in kindergarten, the only way to combat this type thinking is to change the way we are teaching our children to think. If our teachers could tell their students it is more important to be honest, accountable, fair, rather than patriotic, then perhaps in twenty years we could see a difference in America, American Politics, and eventually in world events. But far too many people are Proud to be and American. I am proud to be and American, but I am more proud to be a world citizen, a human, and a child of God. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, etc. whatever faith you follow, we all eventually pray to the same God. These are far more important than being an American. -- JRD Hello, You said in your email below: I fear we may be heading in the same direction as pre WWII Germany We ARE ALREADY down that path. And it involves far more than Bush. It's about American world domination for which Bush is just a current advocate. --ME --- Jennifer Doty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen! Hi Allan, Not so long ago, people around the world were concerned about the spread of Communism. We looked to Moscow and hoped the next Russian leader would be a moderate, not one of the old-guard intelligence community hard-liners, prone to de-stabilizing and invading strategic territory abroad, while cracking down on personal freedoms at home. Substitute American Imperialism for Communism and Washington for Moscow and you then have the real reason for defeating Bush. Hard-liners on either end of the spectrum are bad for the country they are in as well as the rest of the world, and Bush is a perfect example of American hard-liners at their worst. As someone who truly is a centrist, I can not see how anyone who would support the current regime could call themselves anything but a right wing extremist, if they have any clue of what's really going on. Of course, those who rely on Fox News for all of their information are simply misinformed, but there is enough evidence of reality out there for even them to know that they are choosing to remain that way. Just my $.02. Brian It is so sad that people choose to remain ignorant, and call it patriotism. I fear we may be heading in the same direction as pre WWII Germany - JRD ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] unsubscribe,
much,,, i feel my opinions and attemapts at humo hovave no plaace in theis forum,,,for anyone who may havee beeean affended,,, i abjeactaly apolosygize,, i meant no haram i feelll that you endeaveeer to imporve the pligh of the earth yourselfvess, those araoud you, i wish u well,,, ,, please dissenro me,,,buck, _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] unsubscribe,
much,,, i feel my opinions and attemapts at humo hovave no plaace in theis forum,,,for anyone who may havee beeean affended,,, i abjeactaly apolosygize,, i meant no haram i feelll that you endeaveeer to imporve the pligh of the earth yourselfvess, those araoud you, i wish u well,,, ,, please dissenro me,, f oar that i applausd th youbuck, _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Brazil at Le Mans uses Ethanol
Hi, MH. In Paraguay at those times there were many alcohol fuelled cars imported from Brazil, I still remember the sweet smell of the not completely burned ethanol 96o GL of thoses compact to medium size street cars where just started (after the first spay of gasoline injected to start in our mild winter has been burned completelly if the driver operated a small gas pump with the size of a windshiel waser pump from a small 1 - 2 L tank). Now it is difficult to get here the new flex-fuel cars and I do not see everywhere alcohol pumps at Gasoline/Diesel/Alcohol stations of previous years. Most of the Pump Stations dismantled the 96o GL ethanol pumps because the drivers refused to buy the once expensive ethanol when the goberment did not support anymore the ethanol production. Most of the alcohol driven cars from the 80s and early 90s were converted to gasoline or the more economic Liquified Petroleum Gas. Today in Paraguay I know there are enterprises where cheaper pure absolute ethanol is produced from sugarcane to be mixed with the low priced gasoline at rates of 14%, if there is enough pure alcohol production in stock. Ethanol price is helping to diminish the price of this fuel and it is used as octane booster as well. Juan -Mensaje original- De: MH [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: Martes 21 de Septiembre de 2004 2:13 AM Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: [Biofuel] Brazil at Le Mans uses Ethanol Brazil Wins The Race On Alternative Fuel By Gibby Zobel AlJazeera.net 7-23-4 http://www.rense.com/general54/braz.htm SAO PAULO, Brazil -- When the slick green and black racing car slammed across the finishing line at the world's most famous race last month, the Le Mans 24 Hours, it may have finished only in 17th place but the team knew it had won a remarkable first. The Nasamax DM139-Judd had passed what is known the world over as a fiercesome endurance test - running not on petrol but on bio-ethanol, an alcohol fuel distilled in northern France from sugar beet and potatoes. If it hadn't been for an engine misfire, says Nasamax team manager John McNeil we know what lap time we could have had, and we know it would have put us safely in the top ten - even the top six. We have still shown that this fuel can be competitive in the top level of international motorsport. The achievement is just one example of how booze-fuelled cars are lining up for poll position. Or, as in Brazil's case, merely returning. Liquid gold Brazil became the centre of alternative fuel production in the 80s spurred by the oil shocks of the 1970s. The experiment reached its peak in 1985 when an astonishing 91% of cars produced that year ran on sugar-cane ethanol - the same fuel as the national spirit cachaca that makes the popular cocktail caipirinha. But it was all economics, not ecology. When the oil prices fell and sugar prices rose becoming more profitable to export, the homegrown demand for alcohol-driven cars dropped leaving the pro-Alcool drive looking like little more than a blip. Going from zero in 1978 it was back to virtually none again by 1996. Now with the manufacture of new flex-fuel cars (FFVs), which can run on either ethanol or petrol, Brazil is trying once more. Economic factors have placed ethanol-driven cars back in contention and sales have shot back up. It could lead to Brazil drastically reducing its dependency on oil - it imports 80% - and becoming a world leader in the export of renewable fuels. Driven to diversify Other countries are eyeing-up a petrol-free motor future. China, which is building enough new highways to circle the Earth four times, is considering following Brazil's example and Thailand too is looking to follow suit. At the last world conference on petroleum, which took place in Germany, it was clear that our sugarcane-based fuel is an attractive trade product for Brazil, said Maria das Gracas Foster, executive secretary of the Ministry of Mines and Energy recently. The country is seen as a supplier, a big potential exporter, one that is preferred by large nations who face the task of diversifying their energy sources. Demand for supply At the same time an effort is being made to increase domestic use, she said. Brazil still retains a network of refilling stations across the country, and particularly in Sao Paulo state where almost a quarter of the 180 million Brazilian population live. They all have the alcohol option side-by-side, pump-by-pump with petrol. About 40% of the cars around the perifeiria (the slums that circle Sao Paulo) still run on alcohol because they are the older cars from the 1980s. The network is key. According to the 2004 Motor Trends Alternative Fuel Review, there are already two million flex-fuel cars in America which could be running on alcohol tomorrow - but there are only 200 stations in the whole of the US. This is a 100% clean and
[Biofuel] Schwarzenegger and ChevronTexaco
AP Wire | 09/02/2004 | Thu, Sep. 02, 2004 Schwarzenegger and ChevronTexaco TOM CHORNEAU Associated Press SACRAMENTO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's ambitious plan to reorganize almost every aspect of state government was influenced significantly by oil and gas giant ChevronTexaco Corp., which managed to shape such key recommendations as the removal of restrictions on oil refineries. Many corporations and interest groups participated in the governor's reform plan - known as the California Performance Review - but state records and interviews with the participants show Chevron enjoyed immense success in influencing the report through its array of lobbyists, attorneys and trade organizations. And few corporations have spent so much political cash on the governor, either. Since Schwarzenegger's election last October, the San Ramon company has contributed more than $200,000 to his committees and $500,000 to the California Republican Party. Chevron, whose officials acknowledge they lobbied hard to get their ideas in the report, is one of about 20 companies that paid to send the governor and his staff to this week's Republican National Convention in New York. On Wednesday, Schwarzenegger attended a closed-door meeting in New York with representatives of those companies, including Chevron. And just three weeks after the governor's office released the 2,700-page reorganization report, the company gave $100,000 to a Schwarzenegger-controlled political fund. Environmental watchdogs and local agencies that regulate some of Chevron's operations complain that they had no such access, and that their counterproposals appear nowhere in the massive report. Disclosure of Chevron's determined role in what many believe is the administration's most important political reform effort contrasts sharply with statements he made during last year's election campaign and afterward in which he promised to sweep out a corrupt system where contributions go in, the favors go out. Schwarzenegger launched the reorganization effort in January, calling the state bureaucracy a mastodon frozen in time that needed to be reviewed from top to bottom to eliminate waste and duplication. The administration said the recommendations in the report would save $32 billion over five years, a claim analysts said is exaggerated. Although the governor's senior aides helped organize and oversee the reorganization effort, a spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger said the review staff, not the governor's office, was responsible for the report. Schwarzenegger announced the review in January and then appointed its two top members, who then assembled the rest of the staff. Ashley Snee, the governor's deputy press secretary, said it was premature to assume any of the recommendations will be adopted and that those who are unhappy with parts of the report can comment at a series of statewide hearings on the proposal. Proposals that would benefit Chevron are peppered throughout the four-volume report. They include: _ Streamlining the permit process for the construction of new oil refineries and the expansion of existing ones. Chevron, which owns two of the state's largest refineries in Richmond and El Segundo, wanted the state's help in revising existing laws so local government officials would be required to make decisions more quickly on construction permits at refineries. _ Streamlining the activities of the San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission. That agency, which issues permits for dredging and sand mining in the Bay Area, oversees activities related to Chevron's interests in the Bay Area. _ Reorganizing the regulatory process for picking the locations for refineries, tank farms, liquefied natural gas and other energy facilities. Chevron has two proposals to build liquefied natural gas (LNG) facilities in Southern California and the Mexican state of Baja California. California's ability to produce gasoline is shrinking at the same time demand for gasoline is rising, contributing to California's dubious position as a national leader in the fuel prices. Time-consuming, costly and complex permitting processes are among the obstacles to expanding ... California's petroleum infrastructure to meet the growing demand, the CPR report said. The state needs to streamline its permitting processes to allow supply to more readily keep pace with demand, so that price volatility and price differentials are reduced. But Mark Petracca, a University of California, Irvine political scientist, said Chevron's considerable influence on the CPR report may taint the whole review because the study was presented to the public as an objective and authoritative analysis of how to fix state government. This is good old fashioned interest-group politics, Petracca said. Powerful people who have money can hire powerful people and use occasions like this report to set the agenda for policy
Re: [Biofuel] 2004 VW Jetta TDI
m gildow wrote: Thanks for clearing that up. The other info that I got was probably refering to SVO, but wasn't clear. The info put out was refering to the different pressure in the newer PD fuel injection pump, but even that information wasn't particularly clear. Differences in what the actual pressure is and if it has even changed in the last few years. Hi Mel. The page Keith refered you to probably needs to be updated. As Keith said, in an 2003 TDI or earlier, biodiesel is absolutely fine. It does not need to be updated. Did you look at it? It's about TDIs and SVO, not TDIs and biodiesel. I said: Biodiesel's no problem, SVO/WVO is something of a controversy. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html The TDI-SVO controversy It will apply even more so to the PD injection pump and SVO/WVO. Best Keith However, with regard to the new Pumpe Duse (PD) injection found in the 2004 TDIs, the jury is still out on whether BD is a good idea. It may be fine, but at this point, it simply does not have the track record of the earlier engines. You will find a lot of heated debate on this topic from both sides over at tdiclub.com. You will find lots of definative declarations for both sides, when the truth is somewhere in between. For example, this website http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels-7.html claims that all Audis and VWs, including the PD engines, are B100 compatible. Yet, on the next page, they refer to biodiesel having the proper octane. If they can't tell octane from cetane, I'm not sure I'd trust their other statements. In any case, VWoA does not warranty any fuel issues, biodiesel or petrodiesel. If you got a bad tank of petrodiesel that ruined your injector pump, VW wouldn't cover that either. In my case, my dealership says BD is fine in my 03 Jetta but my father in law was explicitly warned not to put BD into his new 04 Passat. So at the end of the day, the choice is yours. If you choose to run BD in a PD TDI, more power to you. Just be aware that if you have an injector failure down the road, your dealership *may* blame the BD and refuse to cover it. Cheers. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Slogan
I ordered a few bumper stickers today, along those lines. One with a classic red, white and blue political look for Bush/Bin Laden 2004, another with the republican elephant logo saying, Keep al Qaeda Strong--Re-elect Bush, and a third WWJD? Vote Kerry/Edwards. Hoping people will get the point. Brian Mr. Keith, Would junk the wars ( or warmongers) for ever make a better slogan for a sticker? Regards, Mani Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/18/04 2:20 PM, Jeff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fossils Fuels are Extinct While Biodiesel is Alive and Growing! Is this a better one? Jeff Still too long, but I'd put a bumper sticker on my Beetle TDI that just said Fossil Fuels are Extinct. That's good Ken! It hits home and it's a teaser, it'd get at least some people thinking about what isn't extinct, maybe starting to ask questions. Reminds me of my old War is Obsolete sticker -K Hasten the day when you can put one there saying Warmongers are Obsolete and it's just a superfluous statement of fact rather than a goal. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Thank you Keith. Very helpful. Hans. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Ken. Please take a look at http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm on Biofuels: energy balance. Hans Very nice too Hans, thanks. There's also this: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/Ethanol/balance.html Energy Balance/Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol, Biodiesel and Petroleum Fuels And a whole lot more here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html Is ethanol energy-efficient? Best Keith - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol The reason the government is promoting ethanol production is because of the farm lobby. In general the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and distill ethanol require the input of more energy than is obtained from the ethanol produced. Ken == Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I said, Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a problem with the engine. He then asked me for the money owed for the gas and that was the end of that. 8~) Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of ethanol for a 10% mix. When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort to importing ethanol. Let them eat cake. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
