[Biofuel] old bio diesel
found greasy looking white deposits floating in it. I stained it and there is a light film floating on top. It also isn't as clear as when I first made it. Is it usable? Can I just wash it again? Any other solution? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Is Methane Production in Urban conditions possible?
In urban conditions I obviously dont have too much access to dung. But what i do have access to is an university canteen. Lots of food wasted there. Has anydbody porducede methane form food scraps? I could collect from there. And put in to the digester. Has anybody done this? How should i porceed? Get the scrap food, mush it up with a little with water. Add a little dung, humand dung, after allthe food was prepared for humans. And then wait? Iexpect it hould get good yields since it has a laot of protein in it. I read the article on beates chicken car but what i dont understand about it was how did he sotre the methane in his car. Obviously it was in constant production mode. So he either had a very strong digester where the pressure would buildup or he had a very large digester or gas collector. Another option is that he did very short trips. I have experience in binding plastic sheets with a special welding machine. The first thing that came in to my mind whe i read about digesters was to make one very long and flexible one like intestines. That way I could control the folw manually by pushing if necessary. The problem im thinkin of at the moment is storing the gas in the car. Does anybody know to which pressure i can inflate the inner tire of a lorry? I think that it should have atleast 100L of volume, and with pressure i would expand a little but if it can hold pressures up to 6-7 atm (with its volume expanding to 300L or so) then it would be just enough for a round trip to work and back. I calculated that the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is 7,8m3 of methane. A 15L diving bottle compressed at 100 bars could only hold 1500L = 1.5 m3 so i would need like 4, and that would start ghettin expensive because of the necessary regulators. And most importantly i dont have a compressor that can compress to 100 bars. And putting fridge compressors would work but that mabn become risky at such high pressures. With the tire i could have the same amount in a single container without the need for regualtors. I could use several tires(one in the back seat etc) to expand the range... this seems like the only feasible solution at the moment. Thanks Teoman Helo Teoman Surley all soilid wastes can be sucessfully transformed in biomethane.Very good methods from Bates chicken car experiences avalible can be used for any solid wastes Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htm Also french Biomass King work is also more relevant for you. We are involved in the new process developments to do acelerated aerbic composting via biomass seperation and recycling . Yet this is in experimental stage to reduce the composting time from months into 10 days and inolve mixed bacterial and fungi biological catalysts Thus you need to combine two process as per the method of Bate: first the making waste solid residues into parcial composting , then uso this compostied material with animal wastes in anerabic biodigesters..Thus your can be run the car using this compresed biogas . We are also considering the use of hydrated fuel ethanol and gasoline to use together with biogas due to its higher Co2 , thus making higher fuel efficiency internal combustiom motor more efficient and fexivel and competitive. You need also some filters (ironsponge) to remove the hydrogen sulfide . The whole process need some habilitation from engineerig side . Thus your project on the waste into fuel has good green future .Go ahead you can wn l all the problems with our biofuel group members help but also good to have some engineering person involved. sd Pannirselvam Brasill sd Pannirslvam On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:48:33 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone produce methane in urban conditions? Can i produce enough methane to run my car? How large a processor would i need and what could i feed it with? Old newspapers and food scraps and grass once in a while from the appartments garden... For the car im thinking of large tank that i will use 2 or three fridge compressors in series to compress the gas to about 40 atm. Thanks Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Tell Big Auto to clean up their cars and our air SEND ACTION~a13070u957813]
Where can we find the technology data from both sides? Very Respectfully, Michael Foster http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com Frantz DESPREZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal fat
James, Doing a careful titration is very important when using a new oil source. Animal fats require more base catalyst. Acid/base is the best way to go for optimum yeild and minimal soap. Diff --- James Gillies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back. I tried a few test batches with it but always seem to come up with an inordinate amount of soap, whatever the NaOH level. Has anyone had success with animal fat? Do any of the other methods, such as acid-base or two stage, give better results with fat? Any help appreciated. James Gillies - Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT ///////????????
'select all', then click on 'Mark as read'. Then as new messages come, they are noted beside the name of the folder you are using. That way you know without opening it if there is anything new. Chris Kueny Cayce, SC - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT /// Thanks for the info Chris, I've been using Outlook for several years now without realizing that that could be done. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT /// The best solution, if you use Outlook, is to use Message Rules and create a rule that puts anything with [biofuel] in the subject line in a new folder called , 'Biofuel', or whatever you want to name it. Then all these messages go into the special folder, and your inbox is spared the onslaught. When you want to read Biofuels, you open that folder just like you would your inbox, sent box, etc. This is not a test. Chris Kueny Cayce, SC snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?
To my mind, it is really intensive farming vs non-intensive farming. In Asia, even small farms are generally intensive. I have seen some small free-range poultry farms where chickens and ducks are given about 2 to 3 sq ft of space per bird, in an enclosed yard. That's intensive. Off the ground, in sheds, the birds generally have 1.2 sq ft of space per bird. Put in ventilation, the space is reduced to 0.75sq ft. Farms like this are purpose-build for viral mutation and clearly non-sustainable in all sense of the word. What is non-intensive? I have grown pastured chickens on the same piece of land for 7 years now and have no disease outbreak in that time. I give each bird 20 sq ft of land, and move them every couple of weeks. Of cos, the other issue we have to address is that if we all start non-intensive farms, we will soon run out of land, which will bring up a new set of problems altogether. Regards HS --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, I have been thinking about the problems with factory farms vs sustainable farms. I appears, to me at least, that the debate has an erroneous assumption; that all large farms are factory and that most small farms are sustainable. This is totally false. Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Multiple Uses of Forests
Dear Guag: Seems a good approach would be to effect a gradual transition. I gather you're in Thailand and no nothing of that region, but I do work in forestry in Canada and am semi reliant on biofuels. There is no such thing as a useless tree--- promote the harvesting of less desired species and restock as you go. Have Fun, HRMH --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Keith ; I really and truly have no ulterior motive for asking this question, and I'm at a loss as to understand why it has generated such controvery. It was never my intention. When I click respond, Yahoo truncates a long response message about half way through with a mwessage ==message truncated==. I had to open a text window of the unresponded message and cut and paste your post and then type in the and line feeds to show your original post. Just trying to respond to the important points and keep it as brief as possible. If it mislead anyone than I am truly sorry. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Peter Hi Keith ; Oh boy, Uh-huh? I guess I'll try one more time to ask this hypothetical question and then I'll leave it alone. In the case of a standing forest of small trees, the preponderance of which are have a 3 sigma size distribution of 10 cm +/- 5 cm as a result of many decades of non-sustainable pilaging by the local people where any trees with perceived local utilization were removed, and additionally where I have identified the species of tree and determined that it presented no medicinal, culinary, or materials benefit, and additionally where I, in conjunction with the local people, determined that the clear ecological benefit of the tree would be significantly better provided by a multi-purpose tree, and therefore we would like to transition the forest in a sustainable manner towards the much acclaimed multi purpose use, how do we gently cause the transition in a sustainable manner? Oh, you cut it down? Are you sure you're not going to regret that? So then you are saying not to cut it down? I'm saying what I'm saying, and I said somewhat more than just the last few words: Not too many of this size and I guess we just need to define our terms. What do you call a tree 5 cm at the base? 30 cm? 1 meter? 2 meters? It depends which particular tree you mean. Not just which species, which tree. What would you call call a tree 5 cm at the base? What will you call it in five years' time? Oh, you cut it down? Are you sure you're not going to regret that? Same here, from below: My question much more basic : what happens to the existing forest when you try to transform it to these wonderful species? I'm assuming that most of it gets cut down. Why should it be? Then you are saying don't cut it down? Sorry Peter, if you want a book of rules or a technical operating manual you won't get them from me, nor any more broad sweeping generalised statements than you've already had. Have you looked at the big databases, like NewCrop, the Handbook of Energy Crops, Plants For A Future? No I didn't know they existed. This is precisely why I am here posting these questions. But one of them at least is listed on the Trees page at our site that you said didn't have any information. They're all on our site, and in the list archives. genuinely usable only as firewood. Asking the question what to do with these trees in this case is absolutely valid, even if the answer is to do nothing at all with them. It is not valid when the only information you have provided on them is their girth. This is a classic miscommunication (look at the original for a comparison): I was VERY gratified to find that each time I dug a hole I soon hit the remains of an old tree-stump! Right on top, every time. Cut down and burnt. So I got it right, as the original farmers had also got it right. You're looking for a list of instructions to tell you how to do that? Not at all. I'm not asking how to plant desired species when existing trees have been cut, I'm asking how to plant desired specied when existing trees have NOT been cut. Do you think I hadn't gathered that? So why do you think I used this example, just being woolly-minded? In your case the question I am asking was already answered for you : ie. the previous trees were already cut and burned. There's only one question, eh? The one you're asking, right or wrong. I find the way you've snipped all this it hardly makes any sense to me and bears little resemblance to what I wrote. Just dross, what you snipped, you think? You're not getting my
Re: [Biofuel] testing
dear martin, it is ok. regards carlos - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] testing this is a test ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Vegetable Oil Press
I wonder if any of the biofuel enthusiast will know a source of a small vegetable oil press (expeller). Looking on the 2 to 4 liter of oil per hour range, or 8 to 16 kg if seed per hour. This is an small press, however I am looking for an industrial type of machine not a kitchen type one. The capacity is approximated, it could be a bit higher. Thank you for the cooperation, regards, Ral A. Raudales Director, Research Planning Mesoamerican Development Institute Lowell, Massachusetts (978) 937 - 3460 www.mesoamerican.org ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Vegetable Oil Press
Ed Beggs has some info on Komet presses. Check www.biofuels.ca -Joey ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Methane producing plant in Mongolia
Hi, Panni, Thakns for your message. Could you send some links about the heating of reactor. Thanks Davaa - Original Message - From: Pannir P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methane producing plant in Mongolia Helo Davaa Welcome here for this group. Very good work are available from USA internet about the heating your bioreactor. Solar heating or the heat from the biogas combustion can be reused. Here in south of the Brasil , biodigestor do work in low tempertaure with lossin production .But can work . In summer you can protect the reactor too. Even in extreme climate change in Europe , USA , the biogas production is possible , but need apropriate measures. sd Pannirselvam Brasil On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:42:33 +0800, Davaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, I have just joined the mailing list. I look forward to learning a lot from your community. My name is Davaa from Mongolia. My brother and myself have a farm with 24 cows nearby capital city Ulaanbaatar. I was searching web sites to find usefull information for improving the efficiency of the farm. I found lot of information about biogas plant, including the paper regarding the Construction for GGS 2047 Model Biogas Plant. This is very informative and usefull reference for myself. I'm evaluating whether to build similar biogas plant here in Mongolia or not. The basic problem here is the temperature extreme range. During summer reaches +35 centigrade during the day and +15 during night. During winter most of days minus 26 centigrade during day and -40 centigrade during night. Is some have an experience building biogas plant in a similar climat? Look forward to hearing. Best regards, G. Davaa Mongolia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qumica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Ps Graduao em Engenharia Qumica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitrio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Vegetable Oil Press
Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress I wonder if any of the biofuel enthusiast will know a source of a small vegetable oil press (expeller). Looking on the 2 to 4 liter of oil per hour range, or 8 to 16 kg if seed per hour. This is an small press, however I am looking for an industrial type of machine not a kitchen type one. The capacity is approximated, it could be a bit higher. Thank you for the cooperation, regards, Ral A. Raudales Director, Research Planning Mesoamerican Development Institute Lowell, Massachusetts (978) 937 - 3460 www.mesoamerican.org ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?
To my mind, it is really intensive farming vs non-intensive farming. But there are many kinds of intensive farming that are fully sustainable and not at all inhumane. Eg, the French Intensive methods used by John Jeavons, or the traditional Chinese farming system still used all over Southeast Asia and elsewhere, top name but two. Factory farming is not described by saying it is intensive. In Asia, even small farms are generally intensive. The smaller they are the more intensive they tend to be, and the bigger they are (as with farms everywhere) the less productive they are. I have seen some small free-range poultry farms where chickens and ducks are given about 2 to 3 sq ft of space per bird, in an enclosed yard. That's intensive. If that's all they do, just raise poultry by itself, a specialised operation not in association with other types of crop production, ie a monocrop, then this does approach factory farming. Off the ground, in sheds, the birds generally have 1.2 sq ft of space per bird. Put in ventilation, the space is reduced to 0.75sq ft. Farms like this are purpose-build for viral mutation and clearly non-sustainable in all sense of the word. I fully agree. What is non-intensive? I have grown pastured chickens on the same piece of land for 7 years now and have no disease outbreak in that time. I give each bird 20 sq ft of land, and move them every couple of weeks. Of cos, the other issue we have to address is that if we all start non-intensive farms, we will soon run out of land, which will bring up a new set of problems altogether. That's not so. There's no room for industrialised agriculture of any kind, for any reason: take it away, along with the so-called crops it produces (commodities meant for trade, not food meant to be eaten by people), and there's plenty of room. Regards HS --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, I have been thinking about the problems with factory farms vs sustainable farms. I appears, to me at least, that the debate has an erroneous assumption; that all large farms are factory and that most small farms are sustainable. This is totally false. Yes, that's totally false. Regards Keith Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Multiple Uses of Forests
Hi Hal ; Yes good advice. I had worded it a little differently, but same idea, ie. selective felling of the less desired species to make room for the desired species to grow adequately. Without felling a few trees to open the canopy I had experience that new platings of the more desired species won't be productive. Sounds a lot better than clear cutting, which seems to be an accepted practise for clearing land before reforesting. Phasing it in, and carefully at that, sounds like a much better idea. Best Regards, Peter G. --- Hal Hewett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Guag: Seems a good approach would be to effect a gradual transition. I gather you're in Thailand and no nothing of that region, but I do work in forestry in Canada and am semi reliant on biofuels. There is no such thing as a useless tree--- promote the harvesting of less desired species and restock as you go. Have Fun, HRMH --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Keith ; I really and truly have no ulterior motive for asking this question, and I'm at a loss as to understand why it has generated such controvery. It was never my intention. When I click respond, Yahoo truncates a long response message about half way through with a mwessage ==message truncated==. I had to open a text window of the unresponded message and cut and paste your post and then type in the and line feeds to show your original post. Just trying to respond to the important points and keep it as brief as possible. If it mislead anyone than I am truly sorry. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Peter Hi Keith ; Oh boy, Uh-huh? I guess I'll try one more time to ask this hypothetical question and then I'll leave it alone. In the case of a standing forest of small trees, the preponderance of which are have a 3 sigma size distribution of 10 cm +/- 5 cm as a result of many decades of non-sustainable pilaging by the local people where any trees with perceived local utilization were removed, and additionally where I have identified the species of tree and determined that it presented no medicinal, culinary, or materials benefit, and additionally where I, in conjunction with the local people, determined that the clear ecological benefit of the tree would be significantly better provided by a multi-purpose tree, and therefore we would like to transition the forest in a sustainable manner towards the much acclaimed multi purpose use, how do we gently cause the transition in a sustainable manner? Oh, you cut it down? Are you sure you're not going to regret that? So then you are saying not to cut it down? I'm saying what I'm saying, and I said somewhat more than just the last few words: Not too many of this size and I guess we just need to define our terms. What do you call a tree 5 cm at the base? 30 cm? 1 meter? 2 meters? It depends which particular tree you mean. Not just which species, which tree. What would you call call a tree 5 cm at the base? What will you call it in five years' time? Oh, you cut it down? Are you sure you're not going to regret that? Same here, from below: My question much more basic : what happens to the existing forest when you try to transform it to these wonderful species? I'm assuming that most of it gets cut down. Why should it be? Then you are saying don't cut it down? Sorry Peter, if you want a book of rules or a technical operating manual you won't get them from me, nor any more broad sweeping generalised statements than you've already had. Have you looked at the big databases, like NewCrop, the Handbook of Energy Crops, Plants For A Future? No I didn't know they existed. This is precisely why I am here posting these questions. But one of them at least is listed on the Trees page at our site that you said didn't have any information. They're all on our site, and in the list archives. genuinely usable only as firewood. Asking the question what to do with these trees in this case is absolutely valid, even if the answer is to do nothing at all with them. It is not valid when the only information you have provided on them is their girth. This is a classic miscommunication (look at the original for a comparison): I was VERY gratified to find that each time I dug a hole I soon hit the remains of an old tree-stump! Right on top, every time. Cut down and burnt. So I got it right, as the original farmers had also got it right. You're looking
Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?
Actually the difference is whether or not we see the land as a resource to be used up or as something to be improved. Many good types of farming are extremely intensive. But not monocrop, intensive. Square foot gardening is a great example. You mix plants, those that have short roots with those that have long roots; you use companion planting so the bugs can't find what they want to eat; you mix tall skinny plants with bushy plants so everything has room to grow. And that garden bed is really full. Very intensive use of the land, but not factory by any definition. It is the single crop, depleting the soil that is a problem. It is chemicals, overused rather than managed use to build the soil that is factory. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:07 PM 3/13/2005, you wrote: To my mind, it is really intensive farming vs non-intensive farming. In Asia, even small farms are generally intensive. I have seen some small free-range poultry farms where chickens and ducks are given about 2 to 3 sq ft of space per bird, in an enclosed yard. That's intensive. Off the ground, in sheds, the birds generally have 1.2 sq ft of space per bird. Put in ventilation, the space is reduced to 0.75sq ft. Farms like this are purpose-build for viral mutation and clearly non-sustainable in all sense of the word. What is non-intensive? I have grown pastured chickens on the same piece of land for 7 years now and have no disease outbreak in that time. I give each bird 20 sq ft of land, and move them every couple of weeks. Of cos, the other issue we have to address is that if we all start non-intensive farms, we will soon run out of land, which will bring up a new set of problems altogether. Regards HS --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, I have been thinking about the problems with factory farms vs sustainable farms. I appears, to me at least, that the debate has an erroneous assumption; that all large farms are factory and that most small farms are sustainable. This is totally false. Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Vegetable Oil Press
Hello Francisco, Thank you for your suggestions. I already have contacted Magic Mill, and I will contact IGB Montforts in Germany. Because of budgetary constraint in our project we need to use US made equipment. I was hoping to find a US manufacture of this type of press. This will be the ideal conditions in order not to go through a mountain of paper work. Magic press comes from Sweden. Thank you again, regards, Ral A. Raudales Director, Research Planning Mesoamerican Development Institute Lowell, Massachusetts (978) 937 - 3460 www.mesoamerican.org On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:40:56 -0400 francisco j burgos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Attention : Mr. Ral A. Raudales Dear Mr. Raudales. Please try following: - Komet Vegetable Oil Expellers by IGB Montforts in Germany - Tby Press by Bengt Jonsson.Distributed in USA by Magic Mill International. Please let me know if you had any sucess in your search. Yours truly, Francisco J. Burgos Chemical Engineer, M.Sc. Adjunct Professor, Universidad Central de Venezuela, School of Agronomy - Original Message - From: Raul A Raudales [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:26 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vegetable Oil Press I wonder if any of the biofuel enthusiast will know a source of a small vegetable oil press (expeller). Looking on the 2 to 4 liter of oil per hour range, or 8 to 16 kg if seed per hour. This is an small press, however I am looking for an industrial type of machine not a kitchen type one. The capacity is approximated, it could be a bit higher. Thank you for the cooperation, regards, Ral A. Raudales Director, Research Planning Mesoamerican Development Institute Lowell, Massachusetts (978) 937 - 3460 www.mesoamerican.org ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?
Agreed. Traditionally, in my country, you will have a small piece of land around your house, intensively grown with a variety of plants, all done without fertilisers and pesticides. I am doing that now, creating little forests of trees - some aromatics intermixed with fruits, companion planting,etc. One thing I have discovered is that as the years past and you keep adding organic material to the soil, and not disturb the soil, the entire area comprising of organic rich soil, trees, plants, etc. will emit very strong qi. It is always a pleasure for me in the mornings to walk amongst the trees and feel this tingling, ticking emissions from the soil and the trees. I don't feel this in traditional chemical farms. Regards HS --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Actually the difference is whether or not we see the land as a resource to be used up or as something to be improved. Many good types of farming are extremely intensive. But not monocrop, intensive. Square foot gardening is a great example. You mix plants, those that have short roots with those that have long roots; you use companion planting so the bugs can't find what they want to eat; you mix tall skinny plants with bushy plants so everything has room to grow. And that garden bed is really full. Very intensive use of the land, but not factory by any definition. It is the single crop, depleting the soil that is a problem. It is chemicals, overused rather than managed use to build the soil that is factory. Bright Blessings, Kim Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?
Thanks Keith, for clarifying. In many ways, my farming methods are intensive but sustainable - more output than inputs, soil becoming richer with each passing year rather than being depleted, etc. But on the whole, I am not hopeful all said and done. In my country we have some of the oldest rainforests in the world and recently 2000 acres was cleared by a friend of mine to start an organic sustainable farm to produce vegetables, fruits, meat for export. Regards HS --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But there are many kinds of intensive farming that are fully sustainable and not at all inhumane. Eg, the French Intensive methods used by John Jeavons, or the traditional Chinese farming system still used all over Southeast Asia and elsewhere, top name but two. Factory farming is not described by saying it is intensive. In Asia, even small farms are generally intensive. The smaller they are the more intensive they tend to be, and the bigger they are (as with farms everywhere) the less productive they are. I have seen some small free-range poultry farms where chickens and ducks are given about 2 to 3 sq ft of space per bird, in an enclosed yard. That's intensive. If that's all they do, just raise poultry by itself, a specialised operation not in association with other types of crop production, ie a monocrop, then this does approach factory farming. Off the ground, in sheds, the birds generally have 1.2 sq ft of space per bird. Put in ventilation, the space is reduced to 0.75sq ft. Farms like this are purpose-build for viral mutation and clearly non-sustainable in all sense of the word. I fully agree. What is non-intensive? I have grown pastured chickens on the same piece of land for 7 years now and have no disease outbreak in that time. I give each bird 20 sq ft of land, and move them every couple of weeks. Of cos, the other issue we have to address is that if we all start non-intensive farms, we will soon run out of land, which will bring up a new set of problems altogether. That's not so. There's no room for industrialised agriculture of any kind, for any reason: take it away, along with the so-called crops it produces (commodities meant for trade, not food meant to be eaten by people), and there's plenty of room. Regards, HS Wong Visit my farm: www.dqcleanchicken.com Find out about the most important chicken: www.junglefowl.org You can contribute to sustainability: www.sustainablelivingcentre.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Is Methane Production in Urban conditions possible?
My experiments done a few yearsago suggests u can setup easily anywhere. I was operating it as CO2 generator using garden waste and soil. CO2 generation was absorbed in alkali and found to follow the observed rate for methanogenesis which yields equal quantities of CH4 and CO2. I just used large plastic can with lid. Maybe cars can be turbocharged easily with CH4 after removing CO2. Any comments? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In urban conditions I obviously dont have too much access to dung. But what i do have access to is an university canteen. Lots of food wasted there. Has anydbody porducede methane form food scraps? I could collect from there. And put in to the digester. Has anybody done this? How should i porceed? Get the scrap food, mush it up with a little with water. Add a little dung, humand dung, after allthe food was prepared for humans. And then wait? Iexpect it hould get good yields since it has a laot of protein in it. I read the article on beates chicken car but what i dont understand about it was how did he sotre the methane in his car. Obviously it was in constant production mode. So he either had a very strong digester where the pressure would buildup or he had a very large digester or gas collector. Another option is that he did very short trips. I have experience in binding plastic sheets with a special welding machine. The first thing that came in to my mind whe i read about digesters was to make one very long and flexible one like intestines. That way I could control the folw manually by pushing if necessary. The problem im thinkin of at the moment is storing the gas in the car. Does anybody know to which pressure i can inflate the inner tire of a lorry? I think that it should have atleast 100L of volume, and with pressure i would expand a little but if it can hold pressures up to 6-7 atm (with its volume expanding to 300L or so) then it would be just enough for a round trip to work and back. I calculated that the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is 7,8m3 of methane. A 15L diving bottle compressed at 100 bars could only hold 1500L = 1.5 m3 so i would need like 4, and that would start ghettin expensive because of the necessary regulators. And most importantly i dont have a compressor that can compress to 100 bars. And putting fridge compressors would work but that mabn become risky at such high pressures. With the tire i could have the same amount in a single container without the need for regualtors. I could use several tires(one in the back seat etc) to expand the range... this seems like the only feasible solution at the moment. Thanks Teoman Helo Teoman Surley all soilid wastes can be sucessfully transformed in biomethane.Very good methods from Bates chicken car experiences avalible can be used for any solid wastes Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htm Also french Biomass King work is also more relevant for you. We are involved in the new process developments to do acelerated aerbic composting via biomass seperation and recycling . Yet this is in experimental stage to reduce the composting time from months into 10 days and inolve mixed bacterial and fungi biological catalysts Thus you need to combine two process as per the method of Bate: first the making waste solid residues into parcial composting , then uso this compostied material with animal wastes in anerabic biodigesters..Thus your can be run the car using this compresed biogas . We are also considering the use of hydrated fuel ethanol and gasoline to use together with biogas due to its higher Co2 , thus making higher fuel efficiency internal combustiom motor more efficient and fexivel and competitive. You need also some filters (ironsponge) to remove the hydrogen sulfide . The whole process need some habilitation from engineerig side . Thus your project on the waste into fuel has good green future .Go ahead you can wn l all the problems with our biofuel group members help but also good to have some engineering person involved. sd Pannirselvam Brasill sd Pannirslvam On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:48:33 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone produce methane in urban conditions? Can i produce enough methane to run my car? How large a processor would i need and what could i feed it with? Old newspapers and food scraps and grass once in a while from the appartments garden... For the car im thinking of large tank that i will use 2 or three fridge compressors in series to compress the gas to about 40 atm. Thanks Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel additives
Someone posted some information a week or so ago about what chemicals to add to biodiesel to prevent oxidation. Any chance of a repeat of the chemicals in question and also if anyone knows where they can be obtained? I tried www.biofuelsystems.com but I have had no reply to emails or fax's. Regards Chris Bennett.. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives
Sorry for the repetition of this question but my mailbox got trashed! Someone posted some information a week or so ago about what chemicals to add to biodiesel to prevent oxidation. Any chance of a repeat of the chemicals in question and also if anyone knows where they can be obtained? I tried www.biofuelsystems.com but I have had no reply to emails or fax's. Regards Chris Bennett.. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Read the 2 lines of text directly above this one. Why don't you try looking there? :) jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Is Methane Production in Urban conditions possible?
More than 100 years ago, the methane gas was collected from the city suer system and used for street lights. It ha been said before, but it is important to understand, that it is many ready for use technologies are out there and they already proven their usability. Hakan At 03:59 PM 3/16/2005, you wrote: My experiments done a few yearsago suggests u can setup easily anywhere. I was operating it as CO2 generator using garden waste and soil. CO2 generation was absorbed in alkali and found to follow the observed rate for methanogenesis which yields equal quantities of CH4 and CO2. I just used large plastic can with lid. Maybe cars can be turbocharged easily with CH4 after removing CO2. Any comments? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In urban conditions I obviously dont have too much access to dung. But what i do have access to is an university canteen. Lots of food wasted there. Has anydbody porducede methane form food scraps? I could collect from there. And put in to the digester. Has anybody done this? How should i porceed? Get the scrap food, mush it up with a little with water. Add a little dung, humand dung, after allthe food was prepared for humans. And then wait? Iexpect it hould get good yields since it has a laot of protein in it. I read the article on beates chicken car but what i dont understand about it was how did he sotre the methane in his car. Obviously it was in constant production mode. So he either had a very strong digester where the pressure would buildup or he had a very large digester or gas collector. Another option is that he did very short trips. I have experience in binding plastic sheets with a special welding machine. The first thing that came in to my mind whe i read about digesters was to make one very long and flexible one like intestines. That way I could control the folw manually by pushing if necessary. The problem im thinkin of at the moment is storing the gas in the car. Does anybody know to which pressure i can inflate the inner tire of a lorry? I think that it should have atleast 100L of volume, and with pressure i would expand a little but if it can hold pressures up to 6-7 atm (with its volume expanding to 300L or so) then it would be just enough for a round trip to work and back. I calculated that the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is 7,8m3 of methane. A 15L diving bottle compressed at 100 bars could only hold 1500L = 1.5 m3 so i would need like 4, and that would start ghettin expensive because of the necessary regulators. And most importantly i dont have a compressor that can compress to 100 bars. And putting fridge compressors would work but that mabn become risky at such high pressures. With the tire i could have the same amount in a single container without the need for regualtors. I could use several tires(one in the back seat etc) to expand the range... this seems like the only feasible solution at the moment. Thanks Teoman Helo Teoman Surley all soilid wastes can be sucessfully transformed in biomethane.Very good methods from Bates chicken car experiences avalible can be used for any solid wastes Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htm Also french Biomass King work is also more relevant for you. We are involved in the new process developments to do acelerated aerbic composting via biomass seperation and recycling . Yet this is in experimental stage to reduce the composting time from months into 10 days and inolve mixed bacterial and fungi biological catalysts Thus you need to combine two process as per the method of Bate: first the making waste solid residues into parcial composting , then uso this compostied material with animal wastes in anerabic biodigesters..Thus your can be run the car using this compresed biogas . We are also considering the use of hydrated fuel ethanol and gasoline to use together with biogas due to its higher Co2 , thus making higher fuel efficiency internal combustiom motor more efficient and fexivel and competitive. You need also some filters (ironsponge) to remove the hydrogen sulfide . The whole process need some habilitation from engineerig side . Thus your project on the waste into fuel has good green future .Go ahead you can wn l all the problems with our biofuel group members help but also good to have some engineering person involved. sd Pannirselvam Brasill sd Pannirslvam On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:48:33 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone produce methane in urban conditions? Can i produce enough methane to run my car? How large a processor would i need and what could i feed it with? Old newspapers and food scraps and grass once in a while from the appartments garden... For the car im thinking of large tank that i will use 2 or three fridge compressors in series to compress the gas to about 40 atm. Thanks Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
[Biofuel] Dr Mercola
various health issues the following is from Consumer Health Digest #05-11, March 8, 2005. -- Dr. Joseph Mercola gets FDA warning letter. The FDA has ordered Joseph Mercola, D.O., of Schaumburg, Illinois, to stop making illegal therapeutic claims for products sold through his Web site. http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/prod/2005/mercola.shtml The warning letter states: **Living Fuel Rx?, which he claims offers an exceptional countermeasure against cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, etc. **Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil, which he says will reduce the risk of heart disease and has beneficial effects against Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and many infectious agents **Chlorella, which he says can fight cancer and normalize blood pressure. Mercola.com, for which Google retrieves more than 45,000 pages, is one of the Internet's largest and busiest health information sites. Mercola states that his site has 6 million page views a month and that his twice-a-week electronic newsletter has over 300,000 subscribers. Many of his articles make unsubstantiated claims and clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations. For example, he opposes immunization and fluoridation, claims that amalgam fillings are toxic, and makes many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements. Much of his support comes from chiropractors who promote his newsletter from their Web sites. -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal fat
I don't know if you'v mentioned this method yet but it might be worth a try it's not for novice biofuel makers. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth It would be worth discussing it with Kieth Addison before attempting it. I think you'll find he's very patient and helpful. JD2005 - Original Message - From: James Gillies I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
