[Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith On 5/28/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can imagine it now. Bush authorizes invasion of Bolivia! Venezuelan president Chavez pledges energy loans to Bolivia http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148814738.news Maybe it's time for large scale biodiesel school bus conversions. Nation's School Buses Worst Polluting Vehicles http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148815659.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Keith wrote, What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? The engine oil in a poorly maintained engine sure does smell some thing horrible especially if it has additives. Sitting under my own converted ex-school bus many years ago before I got to rebuild the engine was like being gassed. The eyes watering and all. Could only stay under the bus for short periods while the engine was running. Once the rings and pistons had been changed it was all but sweet under there, no extremely bad smells or fumes from a 1936 P6 powered ford Jailbar. Oil rings do not help the engine compression or starting they wipe the walls to stop excess oil getting to the combustion, if these rings are shot and the compression rings still very good then you will get easy starting, good burning but a very horrible smell from the oils being passed upwards. This is also the case with worn intake valve guides with the O ring seals instead of the Hat type seals. Yes bad smells can come from bio-fueled engines. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Odd. All the bio I've ever made smells fine before and after burning. A little like Thai food, but stinky, no. lres1 wrote: Keith wrote, What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? The engine oil in a poorly maintained engine sure does smell some thing horrible especially if it has additives. Sitting under my own converted ex-school bus many years ago before I got to rebuild the engine was like being gassed. The eyes watering and all. Could only stay under the bus for short periods while the engine was running. Once the rings and pistons had been changed it was all but sweet under there, no extremely bad smells or fumes from a 1936 P6 powered ford Jailbar. Oil rings do not help the engine compression or starting they wipe the walls to stop excess oil getting to the combustion, if these rings are shot and the compression rings still very good then you will get easy starting, good burning but a very horrible smell from the oils being passed upwards. This is also the case with worn intake valve guides with the O ring seals instead of the Hat type seals. Yes bad smells can come from bio-fueled engines. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Unwashed fuel has a tart smell in comparison to washed fuel. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith On 5/28/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can imagine it now. Bush authorizes invasion of Bolivia! Venezuelan president Chavez pledges energy loans to Bolivia http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148814738.news Maybe it's time for large scale biodiesel school bus conversions. Nation's School Buses Worst Polluting Vehicles http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148815659.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Keith, Was just thinking, what does non processed Jatropha smell like. That is straight Jatropha oil extracted from the seed and put direct into an engine without processing it to Bio-Diesel? It will run in an engine okay, for a while at least, but I have not been involved enough to suck on the exhaust tube, or close enough. Maybe some one can shed some light here. Doug Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith On 5/28/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can imagine it now. Bush authorizes invasion of Bolivia! Venezuelan president Chavez pledges energy loans to Bolivia http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148814738.news Maybe it's time for large scale biodiesel school bus conversions. Nation's School Buses Worst Polluting Vehicles http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148815659.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 1
Hi Keith; I'm sure if I was in that situation I would be thrilled to find the info and pics on a website but how many people will need it vs the cost of storage space on your site? I suppose that is why you are asking for a show of hands? Joe Keith Addison wrote: It's not easy to help Doug, no reply, no pictures. I'll try cc'ing this to him direct as well. This is good information Doug offered, in this thread and the American diesels thread, quite a few people said so. Who thinks it should all be available in the Biodiesel section of the Journey to Forever website? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Hello Doug snip Have pictures of bellhousing being made here but not sure where to put it or send. Doug Will you check this message please? http://snipurl.com/qq84 [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Impressive information you're providing. There's a folder at JtF reserved for photographs and so on for the use of the list. It's not actually part of the JtF website, it's just for us here at the list. Members can send me stuff the list wants to see and I'll put it there and post a link. Send me the pictures direct and I'll upload them and do that. I'm not against having this resource at JtF, and thanks for offering. I have to consider it though, also how to handle it, and just where to put it. Organising it would be quite a lot of work, and there's a queue. But don't be discouraged, let's see how it goes and we'll see what we can do. Quite a lot of people have been writing to Journey to Forever asking about diesel conversions, nearly all of them Americans. Quite a lot also want to know if biofuel (turns out to be biodiesel) will work in their gasoline motor. Some of them just get impatient when you tell them it won't. Why not? What do you expect me to do then? So it might be popular, but that's not the only criterion; it's not our focus, but we don't really make rules about it. People here like what you're doing, that's always a good recommendation. Please keep going. Send me the pictures. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes theTurboencabulator!
I heard that they are still used to run the replicators."...Tea, Earl grey, hot."Mikemark manchester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N, Georgie has to fix it, by installing an inverse phase inhibitor.They didn't have turboencabulators on the old Enterprises, silly.Jesse[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 1
Hello Keith. I think JtF would be good place to have some information on the change from gasoline engine to diesel engine and it could be available in the Biodiesel section of the Journey to Forever website. In Paraguay the conversion from a gasoline engine to a diesel one is often done in a good mechanic shop. Jeeps are the number one vehicles with engines changed to an used Japanese diesel engine with transmission originally from a light truck or a SUV like Toyota Dyna, 4Runner, Nissan Terrano, Nissan Patrol or Mitsubishi L-200 pickup. They are imported from the port of Iquique in Chile, they came originally from junk yards in Japan. It much easier to change engines with rear wheel drives vehicles like a pickup or an automobile likes the old Ford Granada, Chevrolet Nova than front wheel cars with gasoline engine from Europe. Here, the front wheel cars with a gasoline engine here are mostly modified to use Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) with a big 80 - 200 litres gas tank be cause the gasoline in litres cost double compared to LPG in litres. So they avoid the trouble to find a more expensive diesel engine and transmission that matches with the front axle unless the model has gasoline and diesel options from factory like Peugeot, VW or Fiat for example. Best Regards. Juan Pilar -Paraguay -Original- From: Keith Addison [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May/26/2006 15:49 For:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 1 It's not easy to help Doug, no reply, no pictures. I'll try cc'ing this to him direct as well. This is good information Doug offered, in this thread and the American diesels thread, quite a few people said so. Who thinks it should all be available in the Biodiesel section of the Journey to Forever website? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Hello Doug snip Have pictures of bellhousing being made here but not sure where to put it or send. Doug Will you check this message please? http://snipurl.com/qq84 [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Impressive information you're providing. There's a folder at JtF reserved for photographs and so on for the use of the list. It's not actually part of the JtF website, it's just for us here at the list. Members can send me stuff the list wants to see and I'll put it there and post a link. Send me the pictures direct and I'll upload them and do that. I'm not against having this resource at JtF, and thanks for offering. I have to consider it though, also how to handle it, and just where to put it. Organising it would be quite a lot of work, and there's a queue. But don't be discouraged, let's see how it goes and we'll see what we can do. Quite a lot of people have been writing to Journey to Forever asking about diesel conversions, nearly all of them Americans. Quite a lot also want to know if biofuel (turns out to be biodiesel) will work in their gasoline motor. Some of them just get impatient when you tell them it won't. Why not? What do you expect me to do then? So it might be popular, but that's not the only criterion; it's not our focus, but we don't really make rules about it. People here like what you're doing, that's always a good recommendation. Please keep going. Send me the pictures. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
robert and benita rabello wrote: ..We drove the hybrid Camry last Friday morning. .. Because we live on top of a hill, it's really nice to put the car in "B" (for braking) and regenerate all the way downhill! .. That control setting on your Camry is probably identical in function to the "B" on my 2003 Prius. Yes, it does get some regenerative braking action, but I think that the main thing that "B" does is to tell the computer that it can brake against compression (which does not regenerate). I.e., using regular brake petal would be better if you want to get the advantage of regeneration. However, I myself use "B" in downgrade situations where I want the "drag" action in hopes of maintaining a steady speed without repeated use of the brake pedal. -Don in Virginia begin:vcard fn:Don Wells n:Wells;Don adr:;;;Charlottesville;VA;;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;cell:+1-434-962-3363 url:http://home.earthlink.net/~dwellscho/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
robert and benita rabello wrote: ..I'm sure, at some point, that I can figure out how to make the engine run on a biofuel . . . Toyota builds FFVs in Brazil, but they have never sold FFVs in North America. I drive a 2003 Prius. I hope that someday Toyota will admit, officially, that my Prius can operate on concentrations of ethanol higher than E10 (10%). Of course, the 10% (E10) ethanol limit authorized in the Toyota owners manual is only a warranty issue, it isn't a technical issue. Unofficially, we know that the Prius can run on E85 just fine, and that knowledge probably applies to your Camry too, because the hybrid drive technology is the same. The primary issues are the mixture adjustment range of the adaptive algorithm in the fuel control computer, and materials compatibility. Consider this quote from http://www.ethanolmt.org/newsletters/novdec04.html : "Twin Cities Clean Cities Coalition . . from Clean City News The Twin Cities Clean Cities Coalition (TC4) is working to secure funding for a project to optimize a Toyota Prius and other hybrid electric vehicle models to run on E-85. The project is the follow-up to a demonstration conducted by automotive engineering students at Minnesota State University Mankato in partnership with Communities for Responsible Energy and Environmental Demonstration. Students gradually increased the alcohol content of gasoline used in a 2003 Prius to 85% Ethanol without making changes to the fuel system or engine. The Prius was driven all summer on E-85 and showed gains in horse-power and torque, while significantly reducing tailpipe emissions. There were no engine-related problems. For more info, visit: www.creedproject.org." The experiment described in the above text resulted in a technical report, which you can find at: http://www.creedproject.org/e85%20hybrid%20report.doc Regarding E10 in a Prius, here is a quotation from a famous Prius owner: "I have 111,000 miles of Prius experience with E10 (the 10% ethanol blend) with my 2 Prius over the past 5.5 years. It's no big deal. MPG goes down a little. Horsepower goes up a tiny bit. Emissions are very clean." JOHN http://john1701a.com We have not heard the end of this story. -Don in Virginia PS: my 2003 Prius has 55K miles on it. It has driven coast-to-coast in the USA, in winter ice and snow, Arizona desert summer, Gulf Coast humidity (90+F,90+%) and high in the Rockies at 11,500 feet. It has never been in the shop for a mechanical problem. Those Toyota engineers are good. I have not yet fed it any ethanol, but I expect to eventually. begin:vcard fn:Don Wells n:Wells;Don adr:;;;Charlottesville;VA;;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;cell:+1-434-962-3363 url:http://home.earthlink.net/~dwellscho/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
Don Wells wrote: That control setting on your Camry is probably identical in function to the "B" on my 2003 Prius. Yes, it does get some regenerative braking action, but I think that the main thing that "B" does is to tell the computer that it can brake against compression (which does not regenerate). I.e., using regular brake petal would be better if you want to get the advantage of regeneration. However, I myself use "B" in downgrade situations where I want the "drag" action in hopes of maintaining a steady speed without repeated use of the brake pedal. Ah, perhaps! I was looking at the little flat screen display on my way downhill and it showed energy going to the battery. It's REALLY hard to tell when the engine activates in the Camry. I found it hard to believe that the transition could be so smooth. (It seemed more seamless than the Prius we test drove, but maybe that's because the Camry is a bigger car, with more insulation.) robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
Don Wells wrote: Toyota builds FFVs in Brazil, but they have never sold FFVs in North America. I drive a 2003 Prius. I hope that someday Toyota will admit, officially, that my Prius can operate on concentrations of ethanol higher than E10 (10%). Of course, the 10% (E10) ethanol limit authorized in the Toyota owners manual is only a warranty issue, it isn't a technical issue. Unofficially, we know that the Prius can run on E85 just fine, and that knowledge probably applies to your Camry too, because the hybrid drive technology is the same. The primary issues are the mixture adjustment range of the adaptive algorithm in the fuel control computer, and materials compatibility. Consider this quote from http://www.ethanolmt.org/newsletters/novdec04.html : It's a mass-airflow system, which is generally more adaptable than speed density systems when it comes to making engine modifications. We have access in BC to 10% ethanol blends at Mohawk gas stations, but NO E-85. Unlike the case in the US, individuals living in Canada cannot legally distill their own fuel, but there may be a way around that using supplemental hydrogen injection and low proof ethanol. That's one option I intend to try in my truck. Butanol looks promising on the surface, but may not be very easy to actually pull off. Wood gas is another option, as there is a LOT of waste wood around here, but I really don't want to cart around a heavy gasifier and from my own experience with gasification, start-ups are a smoky ordeal! If there was an easy way to get rid of the nitrogen, the resulting gas could be compressed and stored in a small onboard tank. (That would basically eliminate most of the trunk space, too!) That's why a liquid fuel is the most practical solution. Of course, the best option is simply NOT to drive. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Unwashed fuel has a tart smell in comparison to washed fuel. Isn't that the methanol? I only ever tried using unwashed fuel once, but I don't think the exhaust stank. Best Keith Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 1
Hi Joe Hi Keith; I'm sure if I was in that situation I would be thrilled to find the info and pics on a website but how many people will need it vs the cost of storage space on your site? I suppose that is why you are asking for a show of hands? I wasn't worried about the cost. It's good information, but that's not the only point. Actually there's very little about cars and engines at our site, and what is there isn't this kind of information. It would be a new direction, and I'm not sure we want to take it. Several people have said it's great biodiesel information, but the biodiesel bit is only coincidental. We quite often get asked about converting gasoline cars to diesel, but only by Americans, because diesels are rare in the US but they want to use biodiesel. Most of them are after avoiding the high US gasoline prices (which aren't high enough, IMHO). Diesels aren't rare anywhere else. Some halfwit sent me an abusive email offlist saying doug was offering you free of charge a great addition to the journey to forever biodiesel information but I'd ungrasosly spurned it and virtually told him to piss off. Having just asked Doug for the third time please to send it to me so I could upload it. Sigh. He's an American. But if you're not an American, what does it have to do with biodiesel? Doug's in Laos and I'm not sure why he does these conversions, but it's not clear that it's so that people can use biodiesel in these vehicles, I don't think that's the purpose. Juan says in his interesting post it should be in the biodiesel section at JtF, but he also doesn't say the purpose of the conversions there is to use biodiesel. Diesels use less fuel, but that's a different issue. Actually there's also very little at JtF about fuel saving, or about carbon saving and global warming. Of course we think it's important, but when you have a focused project and a focused website you don't just dump everything in there that you happen to think is important. Well we don't anyway. It's the same with this, and I'm not convinced. A major point is that nothing just gets dumped into our website, there's always a lot of work in it. It has to be tailored, especially if it comes from a mailing list, it's the wrong shape. Doug wrote a whole lot, a lot of it in response to questions, it'll take a lot of sorting out to make it accessible on a web page, quite a few hours' work. But there's already a queue of stuff waiting for upload. If anyone thinks it's not necessary, that I should stop making a fuss and just dump it all in, then they're welcome to see how well this works: Doug sent me a bunch of photographs with quite a lot of text explanation in an email. I'll upload the photographs (only the photographs) to a special folder for this at the JtF site (like I did with Jim's venturi pics) and post a message here with the links, the explanation, and links to the relevant threads in the list archives. That's 75 messages in all. Have fun finding the two or three or five paragraphs about your particular diesel conversion amongst it all. But that's all I can do quickly (tomorrow). If I organised the copy and put it in the JtF Biodiesel section, people would straight away start asking why this gas car isn't there nor that diesel engine, and then they'd want information on LPG conversions too, and on anything else that saved fuel (fuel or money), and that's just not what we're on about. I'm still not saying no, I'm open to persuasion, but those are my objections. It might all be missing the point anyway. Why can't we just do it onlist, like we do everything else? It's a kind of workshop Doug's conducting, that's what the list is for, among other things. If I upload Doug's images to the folder at JtF and Doug posts the explanations here for further discussion, wouldn't that be enough? Best Keith Joe Keith Addison wrote: It's not easy to help Doug, no reply, no pictures. I'll try cc'ing this to him direct as well. This is good information Doug offered, in this thread and the American diesels thread, quite a few people said so. Who thinks it should all be available in the Biodiesel section of the Journey to Forever website? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Hello Doug snip Have pictures of bellhousing being made here but not sure where to put it or send. Doug Will you check this message please? http://snipurl.com/qq84 [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Impressive information you're providing. There's a folder at JtF reserved for photographs and so on for the use of the list. It's not actually part of the JtF website, it's just for us here at the list. Members can send me stuff the list wants to see and I'll put it there and post a link. Send me the pictures direct and I'll upload them and do that. I'm not against having this resource at JtF, and thanks for offering. I have to consider it though, also how to
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Keith wrote, What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? The engine oil in a poorly maintained engine sure does smell some thing horrible especially if it has additives. Sitting under my own converted ex-school bus many years ago before I got to rebuild the engine was like being gassed. The eyes watering and all. Could only stay under the bus for short periods while the engine was running. Once the rings and pistons had been changed it was all but sweet under there, no extremely bad smells or fumes from a 1936 P6 powered ford Jailbar. Oil rings do not help the engine compression or starting they wipe the walls to stop excess oil getting to the combustion, if these rings are shot and the compression rings still very good then you will get easy starting, good burning but a very horrible smell from the oils being passed upwards. This is also the case with worn intake valve guides with the O ring seals instead of the Hat type seals. Yes bad smells can come from bio-fueled engines. Doug Interesting, Doug. But I think he's talking about the fuel itself, not the engine. Others who've complained were definitely saying biodiesel exhaust stinks. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
robert and benita rabello wrote: Don Wells wrote: ..I think that the main thing that "B" does is to tell the computer that it can brake against compression (which does not regenerate). .. Ah, perhaps! I was looking at the little flat screen display on my way downhill and it showed energy going to the battery. Yes, there is some regeneration going on in "B" in my Prius. But I also hear a sound from the engine similar to a conventional ICE braking against compression (compressing air without burning fuel). I wish that Toyota would be more precise in their explanations of their hybrid drive technology. "B" is one of the most obscure features. It's REALLY hard to tell when the engine activates in the Camry. I found it hard to believe that the transition could be so smooth.. I am a real-time software designer, so I can guess what some of their techniques might be. First, the software probably commands the small motor-generator to spin the ICE up to matching speed without any fuel injection, and the spinup is probably profiled to minimize jerk. Second, they probably start fuel injection with a minimal amount, and gradually ramp up the injector pulse width (amount of fuel) over several revolutions of the ICE. Activation of the ICE in my 2003 Prius is generally very smooth, and I usually don't even notice it. This is good engineering. The Toyota Hybrid Drive is about as much software as it is hardware. I think that my 2003 Prius is effectively bug-free, and I stand in awe of that engineering accomplishment! -Don begin:vcard fn:Don Wells n:Wells;Don adr:;;;Charlottesville;VA;;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;cell:+1-434-962-3363 url:http://home.earthlink.net/~dwellscho/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
Don Wells wrote: Yes, there is some regeneration going on in "B" in my Prius. But I also hear a sound from the engine similar to a conventional ICE braking against compression (compressing air without burning fuel). That's one of the fuel injection strategies in my Ranger, and I'm pretty certain that just about any modern fuel-injected system functions in a like manner. As long as engine rpms are above 2 000 and there is no voltage from the throttle position sensor, the injectors don't pulse and the engine is effectively functioning as a dynamic brake. I use this technique all the time when driving downhill in my truck, but in the Camry, the transaxle is continuously variable, so I don't get to select a gear and I can't really tell what it's doing. Getting maximum economy out of this car will require a different mind set! I wish that Toyota would be more precise in their explanations of their hybrid drive technology. "B" is one of the most obscure features. Our salesman didn't even know what it was! I figured it was for dynamic braking and checked the display to make sure. The owner's manual warns against doing this for "extended distances", whatever THAT means . . . (I suppose I should't go down the Siquiyou Pass or the Coquihalla Canyon in "B"!) Toyota seems to be hedging a lot with their hybrids, and I'm really disappointed that they're so adamantly opposed to a plug in option. I am a real-time software designer, so I can guess what some of their techniques might be. First, the software probably commands the small motor-generator to spin the ICE up to matching speed without any fuel injection, and the spinup is probably profiled to minimize jerk. Second, they probably start fuel injection with a minimal amount, and gradually ramp up the injector pulse width (amount of fuel) over several revolutions of the ICE. Activation of the ICE in my 2003 Prius is generally very smooth, and I usually don't even notice it. This is good engineering. The Toyota Hybrid Drive is about as much software as it is hardware. I think that my 2003 Prius is effectively bug-free, and I stand in awe of that engineering accomplishment! We've been driving GM cars for so long, the Toyota feels like it was made on a different planet! I've had serious complaints about the engineering that went into my sweetheart's car, especially with respect to the poor quality of its expensive, front end wheel bearings and its VERY undersized brakes. When I first touched the brake pedal on the Camry, I thought I was going to activate the airbags! The whole car has an overall superior quality when compared to the vehicles we've been driving. (My truck is basically a Mazda with a Ford engine, and while it's far more reliable than the Cavalier, the Ranger is STILL a truck and it's designed for work, not comfort.) I'm very impressed with the Camry. We're supposed to take delivery some time this week, and having never owned a new car before, it's a little exciting. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
I used to do a lot of engine braking and air resistance braking. By that I mean when I see a light turn red in the distance I don't continue to throttle along at constant speed like many drivers do and then brake in the last 200 m at the light. I take the foot off and let the car coast. This is still a great way to save fuel but my thinking is a little different towards engine braking now after a conversation I had with a mechanic. (In the mountains this doesn't apply because you can easily fade your brakes descending a pass but otherwise) He said every component of your drivetrain is getting extra wear when you do engine braking. It wasn't probably designed with that in mind anyways and besides, brakes were designed for slowing your car and it is much cheaper and easier to replace worn brake components than a worn transmission or engine. I am skeptical of mechanics who need to survive too and this could be a case of job security but when I thought about it I think he is being honest. Regenerative braking is a whole different ball of wax of course and is a great way to recover energy instead of just wasting it by heating asbesdos or compressing air in my cylinders. I want an electric car! Joe robert and benita rabello wrote: That's one of the fuel injection strategies in my Ranger, and I'm pretty certain that just about any modern fuel-injected system functions in a like manner. As long as engine rpms are above 2 000 and there is no voltage from the throttle position sensor, the injectors don't pulse and the engine is effectively functioning as a dynamic brake. I use this technique all the time when driving downhill in my truck, but in the Camry, the transaxle is continuously variable, so I don't get to select a gear and I can't really tell what it's doing. Getting maximum economy out of this car will require a different mind set! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
Joe Street wrote: I used to do a lot of engine braking and air resistance braking. By that I mean when I see a light turn red in the distance I don't continue to throttle along at constant speed like many drivers do and then brake in the last 200 m at the light. I take the foot off and let the car coast. I do the same thing, Joe. Hakan once wrote about driving on ice as if you have a baby in your lap and your foot on an egg, which I think pretty well describes conservative driving under ANY conditions. (Ok, he might have written a woman in your lap, but under those circumstances I couldn't focus on driving!) This is still a great way to save fuel but my thinking is a little different towards engine braking now after a conversation I had with a mechanic. (In the mountains this doesn't apply because you can easily fade your brakes descending a pass but otherwise) He said every component of your drivetrain is getting extra wear when you do engine braking. It wasn't probably designed with that in mind anyways and besides, brakes were designed for slowing your car and it is much cheaper and easier to replace worn brake components than a worn transmission or engine. I am skeptical of mechanics who need to survive too and this could be a case of job security but when I thought about it I think he is being honest. 90% of engine wear occurs within the first few moments of firing, and in the case of my Ranger, Ford engineers DESIGNED the 2.3 four banger to wind all the way to 6 000 rpm. (Mine, however, never sees the other side of 3 000 rpm.) I've rebuilt many engines in my life and I can attest that if the engine is well cared for and not abused, there's no reason for it NOT to last beyond 300 000 kms. (Unless it's a piece of thrice-dishonored GM junk, like the 2.4 DOHC powerplant in our Cavalier.) As for the rest of the components, under normal circumstances a clutch will wear out before the transmission goes, and I don't buy the concept that the drivetrain will necessarily wear out faster by leaving the vehicle in gear for engine braking. We had a Mystique before we bought the Cavalier. Its transaxle was really too weak for its hot little 2 liter engine, and the gears on that thing began grinding at about 230 000 K. This problem, however, was related to shifting, not leaving the car in gear when going downhill. Before that, we owned a Pontiac Parisienne that we unloaded at 360 000 K because things like the rear bearings began wearing out. My sweetheart's V6 Camaro lasted well over 250 000 K before its throwout bearing needed attention, and aside from electrical gremlins, I have good memories of longevity in my 1973 Chevelle. While I get your point about saving fuel money by wearing out more expensive drivetrain components, I think that much of the problem with wear deals with engineering. If GM had put decent sized brakes into the front wheel drive Cavalier, we wouldn't have replaced them FOUR times in 200 000 kms. (My truck has a similar reading on its odometer, but I've never changed the brake pads. They're STILL original, and the truck stops very well!) Machines wear out and eventually have to be rebuilt or replaced. Regenerative braking is a whole different ball of wax of course and is a great way to recover energy instead of just wasting it by heating asbesdos or compressing air in my cylinders. I want an electric car! Sigh . . . Many of us want an electric car, but for now, the hybrid is the best we can do . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 2
im going to have to agree with keith on this subject, but for slightly different reasons. i believe that focussing on autos and their workings is a little too specialized for the archives and JtF, which if i interpreted correctly was meant to be more holistic in the areas of energy, resources,and theirconservation. no doubt autos have their place in the arena of efficiency and conservation, but there are so very many sources of information to achieve this because of its "popularity" over these last few decades, that we should be focussing on producing new ideas rather than whipping a dying horse (cars). now linking to other sites that promote automotive upgrades might be a better answer than designating a section of the JtF site, but i believe that this may be a matter of opinion. just an idea, jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
robert and benita rabello wrote: Joe Street wrote: I used to do a lot of engine braking and air resistance braking. By that I mean when I see a light turn red in the distance I don't continue to throttle along at constant speed like many drivers do and then brake in the last 200 m at the light. I take the foot off and let the car coast. I do the same thing, Joe. Hakan once wrote about driving on ice as if you have a baby in your lap and your foot on an egg, which I think pretty well describes conservative driving under ANY conditions. (Ok, he might have written a woman in your lap, but under those circumstances I couldn't focus on driving!) I do something similar, but I don't engine brake. I put the car in neutral (5spd) and let the weight of the car and the AW drivetrain slow me down. The car weighs nearly 3k pounds, and it usually only takes a couple of soft taps on the brake to slow from 40~ish to nothing at lights. I do the same thing going down hills, too. Shifter bushings are cheap, and they're really all I'm wearing out by doing this. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
robert and benita rabello wrote: .. Toyota seems to be hedging a lot with their hybrids, and I'm really disappointed that they're so adamantly opposed to a plug in option Actually, Toyota have taken notice of the success of the retrofit plugin Prius experiments in California. Recently they began talking about the next Prius [*] and making noises about a bigger battery (emphasizing electric drive more) and plugin capability, and also perhaps ability to use the vehicle as an emergency generator. I have not been keeping up with this stuff in detail, because I intend to keep driving my 2003 Prius for many years to come. I drove my two previous cars 13 years each; I had a 1989 Honda Accord before I got the Prius, and I put 220,000 miles on it in 13 years. -Don [*] Most people do not realize that the current Prius models are the third generation design. Toyota confuses the question by calling them 'Prius II', when in fact they should be called the Prius 3.x. The reason is that the first generation Prius was sold only in Japan, for three years, 1997-2000. If my 2003 Prius was versioned like software, we would call it 'v2.3'. So, Toyota now has more than nine years of production experience with hybrid drive technology, and have gone through three whole design cycles, and are well into the fourth cycle, which has not yet been delivered as a product. Your hybrid Camry (part of the third cycle, I think) has a rich heritage of solid engineering behind it. begin:vcard fn:Don Wells n:Wells;Don adr:;;;Charlottesville;VA;;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;cell:+1-434-962-3363 url:http://home.earthlink.net/~dwellscho/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
It's kind of acrid in comparison to washed fuel. Soaps, methanol and glycerol being the culprits. All things are relative. Some people love the smell of diesel fuel burning in the morning. (Paraphrased from the movie Apocalyse Now.) Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Unwashed fuel has a tart smell in comparison to washed fuel. Isn't that the methanol? I only ever tried using unwashed fuel once, but I don't think the exhaust stank. Best Keith Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
Don Wells wrote: Actually, Toyota have taken notice of the success of the retrofit plugin Prius experiments in California. Recently they began talking about the next Prius [*] and making noises about a bigger battery (emphasizing electric drive more) and plugin capability, and also perhaps ability to use the vehicle as an emergency generator. That would be progress, I think! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How much water is used to produce ethanol? Please
Hi Doug ; Apparently the big plants use vacuum to completely evaporate and recycle all water used during fermentation and distillation. This yields distillers spent grains with soluables, a more valuable byproduct. Also it is a closed loop system so fewer problems with EPA and so on. BR Peter G. Thailand --- DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug, This really depends on how the ethanol is produced. For instance, if you are doing the old fashion method of mashing then you will have greater water consupmtion versus a direct enzyme conversion (adding alpha/beta amalyse directly). Additionally, water can be recovered from the solids after distillation has occured. Also, there may be water requirements for the condenser. This water is in a closed system but may be important to you. Generally, when fermeting your water/sugar mixture will yield a water/alcohol mixture. This can range as high as 20% ethanol (though, I have never hit more then 15% personally). So, best case, you are using roughly 4/5ths water for 1/5th alcohol. Of course that does not take into consideration any loss due to boiling/mashing/converting. While that doesn't answer the specific question it may give you some info for further research. I would suggest contacting an ethanol producer in your area. They may be able to help you out. -dave KC0PBZ On Friday, May 26, 2006 2:44 PM, Doug Younker wrote: Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:44:40 -0500 From: Doug Younker To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] How much water is used to produce ethanol? Please I googled ethanol faq, visited this group's archives along with JtF webpage. In the event the answer to may question was there I evidently scrolling by it. ethanol is hoped to be the savior of the family farm here in Western Kansas. Recently a letter to the editor made some claims of how much water was needed/used to produce one gallon of ethanol. Due to that I', looking for evidence of how much water is really used. Facilities to produce ethanol have been built, are being built, the construction of more being planned for. Water is an issue here so how much water could we expect to use in the processing of grain into ethanol? I don't know if it makes a difference,some plants where built with using Milo (grain sorghum). Milo being selected because it does well when dry land farmed. Thanks... -- Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed
See, now I was taught that it was the Stonecutters who held back the electric car. What about that? -John On May 28, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Kirk McLoren wrote: Something even bigger than automobiles (solar thermal) was also killed. Mike MacCormack the senator from the state of Washington and former research scientist at Hanford got the Solar Energy Demonstration Act passed and I believe the aformentioned senator, also known by the nickname Mr Atomic Energy, was very active in SEDAs implementation. The act basically placed such burdensome tests on solar products that only multimegadollar corporations could afford to enter the marketplace. Mr AtomicEnergy put an icepick into the heart of solar and to this date the industry has not recovered. Kirk AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Who Killed The Electric Car? Hint: It Was Gassed http://www.telluridewatch.com/052606/electric.htm > It was among the fastest, most efficient production cars ever built. It ran on electricity, produced no emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric vehicles in the Arizona desert? Local director Chris Pain’s film Who Killed The Electric Car? chronicles the life and mysterious death of the GM EV1, examining its cultural and economic ripple effects and how they reverberated through the halls of government and big business. Inspired by his own experience with the EV1 in 1997, Pain set out to solve the mystery of the car’s disappearance from the American marketplace. His first feature documentary as a director, Chris Paine’s 90-minute film will be screened at Mountainfilm on Sunday at the Palm Theatre at 9 p.m., followed by a question and answer session. The year is 1990. California is in a pollution crisis. Smog threatens public health. Desperate for a solution, the California Air Resources Board targets the source of its problem: auto exhaust. Inspired by a recent announcement from General Motors about an electric vehicle prototype, the Zero Emissions Mandate was born. It required 2 percent of new vehicles sold in California to be emission-free by 1998, 10 percent by 2003. It is the most radical smog-fighting mandate since the catalytic converter. With a jump on the competition thanks to its speed-record-breaking electric concept car, GM launched its EV1 electric vehicle in 1996. It was a revolutionary modern car, requiring no gas, no oil changes, no mufflers, and rare brake maintenance (a billion-dollar industry unto itself). A typical maintenance checkup for the EV1 consisted of replenishing the windshield washer fluid and a tire rotation. But the fanfare surrounding the EV1’s launch disappeared and the cars followed. Was it lack of consumer demand as carmakers claimed, or were other persuasive forces at work? Fast forward to six years later... The fleet is gone. EV charging stations dot the California landscape like tombstones, collecting dust and spider webs. How could this happen? Did anyone bother to examine the evidence? Yes, in fact, someone did. And it was murder. The electric car threatened the status quo. The truth behind its demise resembles the climactic outcome of Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express: multiple suspects, each taking their turn with the knife. Who Killed The Electric Car? interviews and investigates automakers, legislators, engineers, consumers and car enthusiasts from Los Angeles to Detroit, to work through motives and alibis, and to piece the complex puzzle together. The film is not just about the EV1. It’s about how this allegory for failure – reflected in today’s oil prices and air quality – can also be a shining symbol of society’s potential to better itself and the world around it. While there’s plenty of outrage for lost time, there’s also time for renewal as technology is reborn in Who Killed The Electric Car? Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo! Messenger with Voice___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
