Re: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines
Why weren't the engines labeled for Bio-Fuel use only or some such. For use with bio-fuels only. We run many Chinese engines here on Bio-Diesel. Doug - Original Message - From: AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:22 PM Subject: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines Hmmm, I thought that Walmart lawnmower my friend bought ran awfully stinky! (LOL) regards tallex EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1153185433.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
It's an ingrained social flaw, almost to the point of genetic. Humans in general are not happy unless they feel that there's someone beneath them. Remember, it's always easier to destroy or tear down something than it is to build it up or maintain it. There's a dividing line amongst humans that's rather easy to discern. Not to condemn or judge, just discern, and hopefully change in a respectful and honest manner. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: just exactly what is black, white? negro, african american, that damn N-word, pastey, cracker, honkey... its all a waste, so why do people think in these terms? its demented. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very
Re: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines
The Bush Administration will continue to enforce the Clean Air Act and stop illegal imports. The public's assistance and cooperation, along with the EPA's commitment to enforcing these regulations, is essential to preserving and protecting the nation's air quality. Chuckle..., chuckle..., snicker..., snarf. Oh Really? Or is that O'Reiley and something from the No Spin Zone. Todd Swearingen AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Hmmm, I thought that Walmart lawnmower my friend bought ran awfully stinky! (LOL) regards tallex EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1153185433.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas. Jesse --- Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the sponge by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores soak methane up like a sponge? These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Forewardet by Fritz --Check Your BeliefsBy Charley Reese03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check onour belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in amythical state, a governor announced a campaign topunish African-Americans for alleged violence.Step one is to confiscate the land owned byAfrican-Americans, evict them from it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.Step two is to connect these all-white ProtestantChristian settlements to each other by a highway onwhich African-Americans are forbidden to drive. Tofacilitate control, the automobile tags forAfrican-Americans will be a different color from thetags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would beset up all around the state capitol to search andharass African-Americans trying to enter.Would you support such a plan? Would you hail thatmythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go toyour church congregation and ask the members to sendmoney to the occupants of these white settlements?Would you lobby the federal government to subsidizethis new apartheid state in our midst?I don't think so. I think most Americans wouldconsider such acts an abomination, un-American and amockery of everything both Christianity and the UnitedStates stand for.Well, if you would condemn such acts here directedagainst African-Americans, why won't you condemnidentical acts committed against the Palestinians bythe state of Israel?Those settlements you hear about are built onPalestinian land, and they are for Jews only. Newroads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connectthem. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israelicheckpoints, where innocent Palestinians are dailyhumiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby villagecan mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours.Palestinians have died in these lines.After all of these humiliations, abuses, the housesdestroyed, the children killed, the olive treesuprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel aboutAmericans who support the Israelis no matter what theydo to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about theseabuses. Check out the Israeli human-rightsorganization at www.btselem.org/English.If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses ofPalestinians by the Israeli government, then you areundoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig whobelieves that Palestinians are some kind of subspeciesof the human race. If you do condemn in your heartthese terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak outabout them, then you are a damned coward.I listened in disgust to a congressional committeehearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all aboutwhat the Palestinians have to do. It was as if thecops, interviewing a child who had been raped by anadult, lectured the child on dressing provocativelyand of being in places she should not have been in.The Palestinians are the victims here. It is theirland that is occupied. They have no army. They are atthe mercy of the Israeli government. They don't have asuperpower protecting them from internationalsanctions and supplying them with billions of dollars.The United States should be telling Israel to get outof the West Bank and East Jerusalem, to dismantle itssettlements and checkpoints, and to allow Palestinianrefugees to return to or be compensated for the landthe Israelis stole.You want to know why we have a problem with terrorism?It's not Islamic fundamentalists or hatred of freedom.It's our support of Israel's unspeakable abuse ofPalestinians. Don't blame Osama bin Laden. Blame thepresident, Congress, the American Israel PublicAffairs Committee and all the cowardly Americans whopractice hypocrisy by claiming to be moral whilesupporting gross immorality committed against theirfellow human beings in Palestine.© 2006 by King Features Syndicate, Inc."Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground."- Anonymous ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
Here's another trick. When I added a float switch to my hot water tank to interlock the heter element, the tank had already been used many times for biodiesel. I evacuated all the air from the tank and then backfilled it with inert gas before welding. If you have a MIG welder and you have inert gas it is easy to do this. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
This is not just a question of the government' going bankrupt. It is
something that is endemic to corporate america. Check out this frontline
video about the bankrupcy case for United Airlines. At several points
in the movie the lawyers and financial experts say that the kind of
dirty financial moves that United made are happening in a very
widespread way with many large corporations in america. Warning you
might find this video very upsetting.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/
Joe
Jason Katie wrote:
if the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone
will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying,
all those millions of dollars they have squirreled away will be worth
tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any
reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to
others for so long. made in america will be equivalent to what Made in
Japan meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less
than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier
and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food
riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents.
think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what
happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities
they have alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing
or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask
them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families
and friends either through love or common decency.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food
to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly
and very young.
The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and
governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.
Kirk
Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver
To:
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
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Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Kirk McLoren wrote: http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=20176 I had to let this settle for a day or so before I could reply. The article is very misleading, beginning with this little gem: Natural gas is also easier to procure: 85 percent of the current U.S. consumption is produced domestically, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, and most of the rest comes from Canada. Uh huh. That will be true for a few more years, but natural gas supplies in North America will plummet after that. The NEA had been publishing data on supply that magically inflated proved reserves to meet demand--much of this from unconventional sources. It's a pipe dream! I believe we're going to have a serious supply problem with natural gas in North America within five years or so. Here's another: The answer is that while automobile engines can burn natural gas without modification, doing so would require a different kind of fuel tank. Storing natural gas requires heavy steel high-pressure cylinders that are expensive and impractical for use in automobiles. Really? No need for pressure regulators, flashback arresters, injectors designed to handle dry fuel, and a re-mapped fuel / spark table? Gaseous fuels, by nature, displace a percentage of air in the intake charge (unless direct injected), which results in reduced power. Without an increased static compression ratio or forced induction, the power loss would generally be unacceptable for North American drivers. (Having just returned from California, where the actual speed most vehicles travel on the highway approaches 90 mph, I just can't see people being willing to accept reduced power.) How about this one, folks? “If we get an investor interested in this technology, it could be revolutionary,” said Sam Swearngin, fleet superintendent in Kansas City. Hang on to your wallets!!! And here we have more nonsense: Pfeifer said he hopes his invention will spark the interest of carmakers, with whom he is seeking partnerships. His grant from the National Science Foundation is running out, but Pfeifer said he hopes it will be renewed. He said he is also hoping the U.S. Department of Energy will help fund his research, which is why he is working on applying it to hydrogen, another potential alternative fuel source that has been drawing more attention than natural gas. The Holy Grail of hydrogen rears it's ugly head again. Hydrogen is NOT a fuel. Then the inventor adds to his folly: Pfeifer said he approves of hydrogen and biofuels initiatives, but does not think they can meet the country’s immediate energy needs. “It’s misleading to believe that this will solve our large-scale problems,” he said. “Hydrogen will not be with us until the year 2020. If (natural gas) became a national goal, we could do this in two or three years.” So lets burn up all of our natural gas driving big SUVs at close to 90 mph on the freeway, because biofuels won't cut it, and hydrogen--as usual--is about 15 years into the future. (I've been hearing this since the Gemini program . . . ) Why do people NOT get that we have to use less before ANY solution becomes viable? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel is mandatory in Illinois
This is GREAT news. I hope other states/communities will shortly follow in the US. Tony Marzolino"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Illinois League of Conservation Voters latest e-newsletter. Peace, D. MindockAs of July 1st , all state, municipal, or county governments, school districts, public or community colleges or universities, and mass transit agencies in the state of Illinois are required to fuel all of their diesel vehicles with a biodiesel blend of at least 2% (when refueling takes place at a bulk central facility).WHY SWITCH TO BIODIESEL?Biodiesel is a completely renewable energy source; as long as we can grow vegetables, we can make more! The use of biodiesel:a.. drastically reduces the release of pollutants through vehicle omissions: B100 (100% biodiesel) fuel emissions contain 47% less carbon monoxide than diesel emissions (U.S. Dept. of Energy)b.. reduces the carcinogenicity of vehicle fuel by 20% for a B20 (20%) biodiesel blend (U.S. Dept. of Energy)c.. and since biodiesel is non-toxic, replacing petroleum with biodiesel reduces groundwater contamination and the risk of ecological disasters resulting from petroleum spills.Not only is biodiesel good for the environment, it's good for the Illinois economy . In the U.S., biodiesel is most often produced from soybean oil. Since Illinois is the leading soybean-producing state in the U.S., buying biodiesel means buying from Illinois farmers.COMMUNITY CORNERCongratulations Decatur, Illinois for switching to 2% biodiesel! Communities and companies that have made the switch to biodiesel have realized the benefits described above - and some they didn't even expect. When the town of Decatur, Illinois switched all its city buses and transit department transport vehicles to B2 in April of this year, officials expected added costs. Instead, mass transit chief Paul McChancy reported net savings due to reduced maintenance costs and increased fuel efficiency as the B2 blend burned cleaner than regular diesel and acted as a lubricant (Mike Frazier, Decatur Herald Review). ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Groups are talking. Were listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Trash Talk
Trash Talk at: http://www.the-rude-awakening.com/RAissues/2006/march/RA071806.html By Justice Litle Remember the classic '80s movie Back to the Future, in which Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) traveled to 1955 in a time machine built by Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd)? The initial version of the time machine, a souped-up DeLorean, was fueled by plutonium. At the end of the movie, Doc Brown returns from the future with a new-and-improved version that runs on garbage. Getting a nuclear reaction from coffee grinds and banana peels seems a bit of a stretch. In fact, turning the contents of your garbage can into any form of clean energy sounds like a pipe dream. But Covanta Holdings Corp. (NYSE: CVA) does just that. It turns garbage into electricity, in a process known as waste-to-energy. So how does the waste-to-energy process work? In a nutshell, safety-inspected garbage is fed into a feeder chute by an overhead crane. The feeder chute delivers the garbage into a giant furnace, where it is forced onto a downward-sloping grate. A churning action is created by the moving bars of the grate, mixing burning garbage with incoming garbage to help it ignite. This furnace runs hot - roughly 1,800-2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The walls of the furnace are lined with steel tubes; heat from the combustion process turns water in these tubes to steam. The steam then drives a turbine generator, which produces electricity. After the garbage is burned, ash and gas are left over. The gas is filtered through a baghouse, a system of hundreds of fabric filter bags that captures more than 99% of all particulates. The gas is also run through a high-tech pollution control system, and potentially acidic gases are neutralized by a lime slurry sprayed into the exhaust. The physical ash is then taken to a contamination- proof landfill, if not first processed for extraction of recoverable scrap metal. The Environmental Protection Agency has declared that the waste-to energy process has less environmental impact than almost any other source of electricity. A combination of strict regulations and mature technology have made waste- to-energy plants both green and efficient. The United States turns roughly 12-15% of its solid waste into electricity each year - that's more than 100,000 tons per day - and generates enough energy to serve 2.8 million homes. So if the process works so well, why do we burn just a fraction of our trash? Why not all of it, or at least most of it? It comes down to economics. Waste-to-energy makes more sense in some geographic locations than others. Dollar for dollar, coal, hydropower and nuclear power are still cheaper ways to generate electricity. But waste-to-energy has other advantages, like the reduction of landfill usage. In densely populated areas of the United States, such as the Northeast, lack of landfill space is becoming a real problem. Existing landfills are getting full, and negotiations for new landfill space are typically squashed by NIMBY politics (not in my back yard). There is plenty of open space elsewhere in the country, but it doesn't make economic sense to transport garbage any great distance. There is just too much of it. Burning the garbage, on the other hand, goes a long way toward solving the landfill problem. The ash left over from the waste-to- energy process takes up just 10% of the space that unburned refuse requires. The practical considerations of large cities and dense population distributions thus make waste- to-energy a winning solution. The waste-to-energy process is also a winner in the global warming department. Conventional landfills emit methane, a smelly greenhouse gas, while burned ash does not. On top of that, not only do waste-to-energy facilities produce zero net greenhouse gas emissions, they help cut down on fuel usage and truck emissions by reducing long-distance waste transportation. As the cost of fossil fuels rises and global warming concerns escalate, these advantages will only become more pronounced. Environmental skeptics fear that waste-to-energy harms recycling efforts, but this fear is largely unfounded. Waste-to-energy plants have an economic incentive to presort the garbage they burn and set aside the recyclable materials. Certain types of waste make good sense to salvage and recycle, while the rest is best viewed as an energy source. According to www.wte.org, Waste-to-energy annually removes for recycling more than 700,000 tons of ferrous metals and more than 3 million tons of glass, metal, plastics, batteries, ash and yard waste at recycling centers located on site. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Liquid Coal
It seems that this effort to liquify coal will only ascerbate global warming and air pollution. It seems economically viable but if the social and environmental costs are included, it becomes a losing proposition. Peace, D. Mindock = Peabody expands efforts to turn coal into liquid fuel http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15067059.htm CHRISTOPHER LEONARD Associated Press ST. LOUIS - Peabody Energy Corp., the world's biggest coal company, will evaluate building two plants in the United States that could transform coal into liquid fuels like diesel gasoline or jet fuel. St. Louis-based Peabody announced a partnership Tuesday to evaluate two plant sites - possibly in Montana and the Midwest - with Rentech Inc., a Denver-based firm that specializes in coal-to-liquids technology. While the technology has been proven for decades it has only recently become economically feasible as a mainstream energy source, said Peabody spokesman Vic Svec. The days of inexpensive oil in the United States appear long gone, Svec said. The two potential sites would be near Peabody's massive U.S. coal reserves, which total 9.8 billion tons. The plants would produce between 3.7 million and 10.9 million barrels of liquid fuel annually while consuming between 2 million and 9 million tons of coal annually, according to Peabody. Svec said Peabody couldn't estimate until 2007 how much the plants might cost or how many plants Peabody might ultimately build, if any. Rentech's stock jumped 90 cents, or 21 percent, to close at $5.10 per share on the American Stock Exchange. Peabody's stock fell 25 cents, or 0.5 percent, to close at $51.36 on the New York Stock exchange. Most U.S. coal is sold to utility companies and burned to generate electricity. Producing gasoline could open new markets while letting the company sell a higher-dollar product, Svec said. While selling liquid fuel could be more profitable, Peabody is probably most interested in building the plants with the simple goal of selling more coal, said Mark Reichman, an analyst with A.G. Edwards Sons Inc. in St. Louis. Reichman said Peabody is more likely interested in building a few plants to spur interest in the coal-to-liquid technology rather than dominating the refining side of the process. It's just another step in moving the needle on this technology in terms of getting acceptance and proving it's commercially viable, Reichman said. Industry wisdom says using the technology reaches the financial break-even point when oil sells for $40 a barrel. With oil hovering near $80 a barrel, the profit potential seems clear. But building coal-to-liquid plants is expensive and the facilities must be used over a few decades to justify the investment, Reichman said. That's kept big energy companies from investing heavily in the technology, he said. You're talking about plants that might have a 30-year life - you've got to be really convinced that gasoline prices are going to stay high for all of that time, he said. While using coal-to-liquid technology could reduce oil imports, the process has not won over critics who want the U.S. to cut back on pollution from coal-fired plants and automobiles. By any measure, coal-to-liquids is extremely dirty, said David Hamilton, a spokesman for the Sierra Club environmental activist group. Hamilton said the process does not cut down on automobile exhaust, which is a key source of pollution. Svec said making liquid fuel from coal produces less pollution than burning coal for electricity, but could not specify by how much because pollution levels vary by plant. ON THE NET Rentech Inc.: http://www.rentechinc.com Peabody Energy: http://www.peabodyenergy.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Trash Talk
Or look up gasification and gasifiers... D. Mindock wrote: Trash Talk at: http://www.the-rude-awakening.com/RAissues/2006/march/RA071806.html By Justice Litle Remember the classic '80s movie Back to the Future, in which Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) traveled to 1955 in a time machine built by Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd)? The initial version of the time machine, a souped-up DeLorean, was fueled by plutonium. At the end of the movie, Doc Brown returns from the future with a new-and-improved version that runs on garbage. Getting a nuclear reaction from coffee grinds and banana peels seems a bit of a stretch. In fact, turning the contents of your garbage can into any form of clean energy sounds like a pipe dream. But Covanta Holdings Corp. (NYSE: CVA) does just that. It turns garbage into electricity, in a process known as waste-to-energy. So how does the waste-to-energy process work? In a nutshell, safety-inspected garbage is fed into a feeder chute by an overhead crane. The feeder chute delivers the garbage into a giant furnace, where it is forced onto a downward-sloping grate. A churning action is created by the moving bars of the grate, mixing burning garbage with incoming garbage to help it ignite. This furnace runs hot - roughly 1,800-2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The walls of the furnace are lined with steel tubes; heat from the combustion process turns water in these tubes to steam. The steam then drives a turbine generator, which produces electricity. After the garbage is burned, ash and gas are left over. The gas is filtered through a baghouse, a system of hundreds of fabric filter bags that captures more than 99% of all particulates. The gas is also run through a high-tech pollution control system, and potentially acidic gases are neutralized by a lime slurry sprayed into the exhaust. The physical ash is then taken to a contamination- proof landfill, if not first processed for extraction of recoverable scrap metal. The Environmental Protection Agency has declared that the waste-to energy process has less environmental impact than almost any other source of electricity. A combination of strict regulations and mature technology have made waste- to-energy plants both green and efficient. The United States turns roughly 12-15% of its solid waste into electricity each year - that's more than 100,000 tons per day - and generates enough energy to serve 2.8 million homes. So if the process works so well, why do we burn just a fraction of our trash? Why not all of it, or at least most of it? It comes down to economics. Waste-to-energy makes more sense in some geographic locations than others. Dollar for dollar, coal, hydropower and nuclear power are still cheaper ways to generate electricity. But waste-to-energy has other advantages, like the reduction of landfill usage. In densely populated areas of the United States, such as the Northeast, lack of landfill space is becoming a real problem. Existing landfills are getting full, and negotiations for new landfill space are typically squashed by NIMBY politics (not in my back yard). There is plenty of open space elsewhere in the country, but it doesn't make economic sense to transport garbage any great distance. There is just too much of it. Burning the garbage, on the other hand, goes a long way toward solving the landfill problem. The ash left over from the waste-to- energy process takes up just 10% of the space that unburned refuse requires. The practical considerations of large cities and dense population distributions thus make waste- to-energy a winning solution. The waste-to-energy process is also a winner in the global warming department. Conventional landfills emit methane, a smelly greenhouse gas, while burned ash does not. On top of that, not only do waste-to-energy facilities produce zero net greenhouse gas emissions, they help cut down on fuel usage and truck emissions by reducing long-distance waste transportation. As the cost of fossil fuels rises and global warming concerns escalate, these advantages will only become more pronounced. Environmental skeptics fear that waste-to-energy harms recycling efforts, but this fear is largely unfounded. Waste-to-energy plants have an economic incentive to presort the garbage they burn and set aside the recyclable materials. Certain types of waste make good sense to salvage and recycle, while the rest is best viewed as an energy source. According to www.wte.org, Waste-to-energy annually removes for recycling more than 700,000 tons of ferrous metals and more than 3 million tons of glass, metal, plastics, batteries, ash and yard waste at recycling centers located on site. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Well Joe the bottom line is what we knew has finally become official. Payers into the system, ie workers, halve or worse and baby boomers retiring means retirees triple or worse. The math isn't rocket science. What we see know are the psychopaths that have always tried to hide behind doublespeak are finally becoming so outrageous even Joe lunchbucket can see the emperor has no clothes. The transfer of wealth in the last decade has risen to even beyond my wildest dream. Enron bookkeeping is the norm not the exception and you can expect more of it as long as we see treatment of these crimes to be the usual whitewash. The accounting firm that did the shredding at Enron is scot free rather than being made to indemnify the pension funds of the workers. If the accounting firm is not liable -AFTER DELIBERATELY SHREDDING- then who is? The foxes are in charge of the henhouse. I wasnt kidding when I posted that 95% of the
psychopaths are not in prison - though wolves should be kept from the sheep.God bless the child that has his own.KirkJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not just a question of the "government' going bankrupt. It is something that is endemic to corporate america. Check out this frontline video about the bankrupcy case for United Airlines. At several points in the movie the lawyers and financial experts say that the kind of dirty financial moves that United made are happening in a very widespread way with many large corporations in america. Warning you might find this video very upsetting.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/JoeJason Katie wrote: if the us government admits
it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying, all those millions of dollars "they" have squirreled away will be worth tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to others for so long. "made in america" will be equivalent to what "Made in Japan" meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents. think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities they have
alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families and friends either through love or common decency. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly and very young. The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their
villas. Kirk Jason Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's and politicians) that are screwed. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" To: Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" Um, it's not really "they" it's "us" too...Jason Katie wrote:good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and
thenpiddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?Jason Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free
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[Biofuel] crosspost -[SOLAR] All Energy for Europe Could Come from Concentrating Solar Power (CSP)]
the pdf is 11megabytes. worth the download. KirkLowell Prag [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From Lowell Prag Wed Jul 19 07:46:05 2006Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:46:05 -0400 (EDT)From: "Lowell Prag" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [SOLAR] All Energy for Europe Could Come from Concentrating SolarPower (CSP)]Hello,It's been pretty quiet on this list lately but here's something thatshould wake you up. Below is a copy of my post to the Sierra Club inMichigan, regarding a CSP study for Europe. The full report is a huge pdffile but well worth the read. A link to it is below.Regards,Lowell Prag Original Message Subject: E-M:/ All Energy for Europe Could Come from Concentrating SolarPower (CSP) From: "Lowell Prag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Wed, July 19, 2006 10:22 amTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]---Enviro-Mich message from "Lowell Prag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>-Greetings,Below is a study on the same concentrating solar power (CSP) that I havebeen advocating for hydrogen production in our desert areas but in thiscase, instead of concentrating the sunlight on multijunction pv cells forproduction of electricity to create hydrogen via electrolysis, thesunlight is focused on steam engine generators to produce electricity fordistribution on the energy grid.Normally, it is not possible to transmit electricity long distances usingAC electricity but a way is now proposed, to combine it with high voltageDC electricity which does make it possible.In short, CSP can play a huge role in weaning us from fossil fuels and anyone who is concerned with global warming and the other related problemsassociated with fossil fuels, should avail themselves of learning moreabout this CSP technology.Regards,Lowell PragAll Energy for Europe Could Come from Concentrating Solar Power (CSP)"A study commissioned by the German Government shows in detail how Europe(including the UK and Ireland) can meet all its needs for electricity, cutemissions of CO2 from electricity generation by 70% by the year 2050, andphase out nuclear power at the same time, using concentrating solar power(CSP), according to a release from Trans-Mediterranean Renewable EnergyCooperation (TREC)."http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=45445Here is contact info on Dr. Franz Trieb who directedthe CSP study and links to the full report:http://www.dlr.de/tt/med-cspMaybe Al Gore will make a similar CSP study for the USA, his next project.Maybe the Sierra Club will take the initiative and propose such a CSP study.-==ENVIRO-MICH: Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmentaland Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action. Archives athttp://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/Postings to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For info, send email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a one-line message body of "infoenviro-mich"==___Solar-concentrator mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cichlid.com/mailman/listinfo/solar-concentratorProblems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta shows you when there are new messages.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
I think he is making "activated charcoal" You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff.KirkJesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobsinto hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas.Jesse--- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the "sponge" by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores "soak methane up like a sponge?" These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed offsix million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of usdumbwesterners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz --Check Your BeliefsBy Charley Reese03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check onour belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in amythical state, a governor announced a campaign topunish African-Americans for alleged violence.Step one is to confiscate the land owned byAfrican-Americans, evict them from it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.Step two is to connect these all-white ProtestantChristian settlements to each other by a highway onwhich African-Americans are forbidden to drive. Tofacilitate control, the automobile tags forAfrican-Americans will be a different color from thetags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would beset up all around the state capitol to search andharass African-Americans trying to enter.Would you support such a plan? Would you hail thatmythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go toyour church congregation and ask the members to sendmoney to the occupants of these white settlements?Would you lobby the federal government to subsidizethis new apartheid state in our midst?I don't think so. I think most Americans wouldconsider such acts an abomination, un-American and amockery of everything both Christianity and the UnitedStates stand for.Well, if you would condemn such acts here directedagainst African-Americans, why won't you condemnidentical acts committed against the Palestinians bythe state of Israel?Those settlements you hear about are built onPalestinian land, and they are for Jews only. Newroads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connectthem. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israelicheckpoints, where innocent Palestinians are dailyhumiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby villagecan mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours.Palestinians have died in these lines.After all of these humiliations, abuses, the housesdestroyed, the children killed, the olive treesuprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel aboutAmericans who support the Israelis no matter what theydo to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about theseabuses. Check out the Israeli human-rightsorganization at www.btselem.org/English.If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses ofPalestinians by the Israeli government, then you areundoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig whobelieves that Palestinians are some kind of subspeciesof the human race. If you do condemn in your heartthese terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak outabout them, then you are a damned coward.I listened in disgust to a congressional committeehearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all aboutwhat the Palestinians have to do. It was as if thecops, interviewing a child who had been raped by anadult, lectured the child on dressing provocativelyand of being in places she should not have been in.The Palestinians are the victims here. It is theirland that is occupied. They have no army. They are atthe mercy of the Israeli government. They don't have asuperpower protecting them from internationalsanctions and supplying them with billions of dollars.The United States should be telling Israel to get outof the West Bank and East Jerusalem, to dismantle itssettlements and checkpoints, and to allow Palestinianrefugees to return to or be compensated for the landthe Israelis stole.You want to know why we have a problem with terrorism?It's not Islamic fundamentalists or hatred of freedom.It's our support of Israel's unspeakable abuse ofPalestinians. Don't blame Osama bin Laden. Blame thepresident, Congress, the American Israel PublicAffairs Committee and all the cowardly Americans whopractice hypocrisy by claiming to be moral whilesupporting gross
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
You can get it made out of all kinds of things: wood, coal, coconut shells, etc etc. ...and if you look on the University of Missouri website, you find this abstract: Synthesis and analysis of activated carbon briquettes as an adsorbent for natural gas x-tad-biggerby Demetrius Taylor /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPresented at the 2005 Summer Undergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerABSTRACT/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Activated carbon has been used for many years for its adsorptive properties. These adsorptive properties are a result of its high surface area to density ratio. It achieves this through its activation process. During activation a network of pores forms throughout the carbon matrix. These pores give the carbon a very large surface area for outside molecules to adsorb to. By maximizing the distribution of different pore widths one can tailor the carbon to adsorb molecules of differing sizes and during various conditions. Our goal is to develop a natural gas (95% methane) fuel tank that uses corncob produced activated carbon as an adsorptive medium. To do this we need to maximize the distribution of pore diameters that are between 1~2 nanometers (10~20 Angstroms). We are currently studying different activation methods and their effect on the carbon’s adsorptive properties. We have obtained volumetric nitrogen and methane isotherms, gravimetric methane analysis data, both scanning and tunneling electron micrographs, and small-angle x-ray analysis data obtained from Argonne National Labs. From this data we have begun producing activated carbon briquettes that will form the “core” of our tank. We hope to expand the use of these briquettes to not only automotive fuel tanks but to natural gas trapping and storage as well./x-tad-bigger ( http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=533 ) And notice that the opening words are activated carbon. So Kirk, here's your affirmation. ...Also noteworthy is that there's this other abstract on the University of Missouri website: Fuel system design for an Adsorbed Natural Gas Vehicle x-tad-biggerby Antonio Howard /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPresented at the 2005 Summer Undergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerABSTRACT/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerWith energy and environmental concerns mounting as the global energy demand increases, alternative fuels are drawing more and more attention. Natural gas is one such alternative fuel. However, the major shortcoming of natural gas is that it must be highly compressed in order to store at a comparable energy density to liquid fuels. For this reason, The Alliance for Collaborative Research in Alternative Fuel Technology (ALL-CRAFT) aims to develop low-pressure, high-capacity storage technologies for natural gas (methane). Midwest Research Institute (MRI), an ALL-CRAFT partner, is assigned the task of developing a fuel tank and fuel delivery system for a natural gas-powered vehicle modified to store the natural gas using adsorbed natural gas (ANG) technology. The design work done thus far has dealt with the logistics of modifying the vehicle’s fuel delivery system to accommodate the use of the ANG tank in addition to the pre-existing compressed natural gas (CNG) tank. The fuel system of a 2005 Honda Civic GX will be modified by installing an ANG fuel tank to serve as an auxiliary tank to the existing higher pressure CNG tank. Additional capabilities will be added while maintaining all of its original functions. One such capability is running either from its CNG or the ANG tank, with emphasis on maximizing mileage from ANG tank use. Moreover, the CNG tank will be equipped to simultaneously fuel the engine and refill the ANG tank upon the latter’s depletion. An on-board CPU will be installed to control this modified fuel delivery system and record data such as mileage accrued from each tank. The MRI involvement in the project is only at the end of the first of two stages towards completion but this initial research should provide a solid foundation to complete the design./x-tad-bigger ( http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=446 ) -John On Jul 19, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote: I think he is making activated charcoal You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff. Kirk Jesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas. Jesse --- Zeke Yewdall wrote: > If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you > get it out of the sponge > by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it > released alot of
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Actually, it seems to me that the US and Europe created Israel because we felt bad about the holocaust, but not enough to actually want to stop their anti-semitism so they found a place where the Jew's could have a homeland, without inconveniencing any Europeans. It makes us feel better about the holocaust to say that we support Israel, but I think it's rather condemning of us westerners that we still fight antisemitism at home, rather unsucessfully at times, and only support Jews when there are no westerners to be inconvenienced by them, in Israel. If we really wanted to atone for the holocaust, is shipping the Jews off to a far off land where we don't have to deal with them the best way to show this? It seems to me that this is almost as insulting to the Jews as it is to the Palistinians, though obviously billions of dollars of military support goes some way towards placating the insult. On 7/19/06, Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed offsix million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of usdumbwesterners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz --Check Your BeliefsBy Charley Reese03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check onour belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in amythical state, a governor announced a campaign topunish African-Americans for alleged violence.Step one is to confiscate the land owned byAfrican-Americans, evict them from it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.Step two is to connect these all-white ProtestantChristian settlements to each other by a highway onwhich African-Americans are forbidden to drive. Tofacilitate control, the automobile tags forAfrican-Americans will be a different color from thetags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would beset up all around the state capitol to search andharass African-Americans trying to enter.Would you support such a plan? Would you hail thatmythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go toyour church congregation and ask the members to sendmoney to the occupants of these white settlements?Would you lobby the federal government to subsidizethis new apartheid state in our midst?I don't think so. I think most Americans wouldconsider such acts an abomination, un-American and amockery of everything both Christianity and the UnitedStates stand for.Well, if you would condemn such acts here directedagainst African-Americans, why won't you condemnidentical acts committed against the Palestinians bythe state of Israel?Those settlements you hear about are built onPalestinian land, and they are for Jews only. Newroads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connectthem. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israelicheckpoints, where innocent Palestinians are dailyhumiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby villagecan mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours.Palestinians have died in these lines.After all of these humiliations, abuses, the housesdestroyed, the children killed, the olive treesuprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel aboutAmericans who support the Israelis no matter what theydo to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about theseabuses. Check out the Israeli human-rightsorganization at www.btselem.org/English.If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses ofPalestinians by the Israeli government, then you areundoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig whobelieves that Palestinians are some kind of subspeciesof the human race. If you do condemn in your heartthese terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak outabout them, then you are a damned coward.I listened in disgust to a congressional committeehearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all aboutwhat the Palestinians have to do. It was as if thecops, interviewing a child who had been raped by anadult, lectured the child on dressing
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Without anincreased static compression ratio or forced induction, the power losswould generally be unacceptable for North American drivers. (Having justreturned from California, where the actual speed most vehicles travel on the highway approaches 90 mph, I just can't see people being willing toaccept reduced power.)Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. On 7/19/06, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he is making activated charcoal You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff. KirkJesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas.Jesse--- Zeke Yewdall wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the sponge by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores soak methane up like a sponge? These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel is mandatory in Illinois
when i lived in illinois, a lot of the gov't vehicles ran on a mix by county and/or city standards anyway. gassers were not exactly required to fill on ethanol, but most did anyway whether it be for the GP or recommendation from the bosses, and diesel was contracted and B10 was cheaper than P100 so its nothing new, just a publicity stunt by the state. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tony Marzolino To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel is mandatory in Illinois This is GREAT news. I hope other states/communities will shortly follow in the US. Tony Marzolino D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Illinois League of Conservation Voters latest e-newsletter. Peace, D. Mindock As of July 1st , all state, municipal, or county governments, school districts, public or community colleges or universities, and mass transit agencies in the state of Illinois are required to fuel all of their diesel vehicles with a biodiesel blend of at least 2% (when refueling takes place at a bulk central facility). WHY SWITCH TO BIODIESEL? Biodiesel is a completely renewable energy source; as long as we can grow vegetables, we can make more! The use of biodiesel: a.. drastically reduces the release of pollutants through vehicle omissions: B100 (100% biodiesel) fuel emissions contain 47% less carbon monoxide than diesel emissions (U.S. Dept. of Energy) b.. reduces the carcinogenicity of vehicle fuel by 20% for a B20 (20%) biodiesel blend (U.S. Dept. of Energy) c.. and since biodiesel is non-toxic, replacing petroleum with biodiesel reduces groundwater contamination and the risk of ecological disasters resulting from petroleum spills. Not only is biodiesel good for the environment, it's good for the Illinois economy . In the U.S., biodiesel is most often produced from soybean oil. Since Illinois is the leading soybean-producing state in the U.S., buying biodiesel means buying from Illinois farmers. COMMUNITY CORNER Congratulations Decatur, Illinois for switching to 2% biodiesel! Communities and companies that have made the switch to biodiesel have realized the benefits described above - and some they didn't even expect. When the town of Decatur, Illinois switched all its city buses and transit department transport vehicles to B2 in April of this year, officials expected added costs. Instead, mass transit chief Paul McChancy reported net savings due to reduced maintenance costs and increased fuel efficiency as the B2 blend burned cleaner than regular diesel and acted as a lubricant (Mike Frazier, Decatur Herald Review). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Groups are talking. We're listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines
can they do that? that would be a fantastic technicality! i do so solemnly swear to use biofuels in my imported engine... so step off georgie-boy! Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines Why weren't the engines labeled for Bio-Fuel use only or some such. For use with bio-fuels only. We run many Chinese engines here on Bio-Diesel. Doug - Original Message - From: AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:22 PM Subject: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines Hmmm, I thought that Walmart lawnmower my friend bought ran awfully stinky! (LOL) regards tallex EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1153185433.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/390 - Release Date: 7/17/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pump choice
Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
On 7/19/06, Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed offsix million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of usdumbwesterners stop them just before they'd finished the job. There have been many atrocities committed in the past. I do not think that they are justification for us to allow atrocities to be committed now. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob.Now, maybe I have my facts wrong (I do have an American education after all), but I do not recall the palestinians participating in the holocaust. I seem to recall that it was the germans who perpetrated it. So, why were the palestinians punished for the sins of the germans. I don't know what the answers are to this situation. There are no easy solutions. But you need to consider both sides of the situation. The world, including the US, needs to be supporting a peaceful compromise. We need to stop supporting Israel because we feel guilty about what happened in the past. -Paul - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz --Check Your BeliefsBy Charley Reese03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check onour belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in amythical state, a governor announced a campaign topunish African-Americans for alleged violence.Step one is to confiscate the land owned byAfrican-Americans, evict them from it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.Step two is to connect these all-white ProtestantChristian settlements to each other by a highway onwhich African-Americans are forbidden to drive. Tofacilitate control, the automobile tags forAfrican-Americans will be a different color from thetags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would beset up all around the state capitol to search andharass African-Americans trying to enter.Would you support such a plan? Would you hail thatmythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go toyour church congregation and ask the members to sendmoney to the occupants of these white settlements?Would you lobby the federal government to subsidizethis new apartheid state in our midst?I don't think so. I think most Americans wouldconsider such acts an abomination, un-American and amockery of everything both Christianity and the UnitedStates stand for.Well, if you would condemn such acts here directedagainst African-Americans, why won't you condemnidentical acts committed against the Palestinians bythe state of Israel?Those settlements you hear about are built onPalestinian land, and they are for Jews only. Newroads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connectthem. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israelicheckpoints, where innocent Palestinians are dailyhumiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby villagecan mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours.Palestinians have died in these lines.After all of these humiliations, abuses, the housesdestroyed, the children killed, the olive treesuprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel aboutAmericans who support the Israelis no matter what theydo to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about theseabuses. Check out the Israeli human-rightsorganization at www.btselem.org/English.If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses ofPalestinians by the Israeli government, then you areundoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig whobelieves that Palestinians are some kind of subspeciesof the human race. If you do condemn in your heartthese terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak outabout them, then you are a damned coward.I listened in disgust to a congressional committeehearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all aboutwhat the Palestinians have to do. It was as if thecops, interviewing a child who had been raped by anadult, lectured the child on dressing provocativelyand of being in places she should not have been in.The Palestinians are the victims here. It is theirland that is occupied. They have no army. They are atthe mercy of
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
Hey Mike,Ditto on the water filled gas tank, course back then it seems folks had just a smidge more in the common sense department. In addition if my boss had caught me even close to a gas tank with a torch I would have been in the unemployment line. Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol?Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did anywelding the gas tank had to be filled with water first.Appal Energy wrote:A bad day at Black Rock...http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006KTVB.COMPAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man.One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday.The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead.The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors.Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion.The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion.The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Wildbill Sutton.VT Groups are talking. Were listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Bob, i bett you havent wread the report of www.btselem.org you would not talk such rhubbish! Fritz - Original Message - From: Bob Molloy To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed offsix million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of usdumbwesterners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz --Check Your BeliefsBy Charley Reese03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check onour belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in amythical state, a governor announced a campaign topunish African-Americans for alleged violence.Step one is to confiscate the land owned byAfrican-Americans, evict them from it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.Step two is to connect these all-white ProtestantChristian settlements to each other by a highway onwhich African-Americans are forbidden to drive. Tofacilitate control, the automobile tags forAfrican-Americans will be a different color from thetags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would beset up all around the state capitol to search andharass African-Americans trying to enter.Would you support such a plan? Would you hail thatmythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go toyour church congregation and ask the members to sendmoney to the occupants of these white settlements?Would you lobby the federal government to subsidizethis new apartheid state in our midst?I don't think so. I think most Americans wouldconsider such acts an abomination, un-American and amockery of everything both Christianity and the UnitedStates stand for.Well, if you would condemn such acts here directedagainst African-Americans, why won't you condemnidentical acts committed against the Palestinians bythe state of Israel?Those settlements you hear about are built onPalestinian land, and they are for Jews only. Newroads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connectthem. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israelicheckpoints, where innocent Palestinians are dailyhumiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby villagecan mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours.Palestinians have died in these lines.After all of these humiliations, abuses, the housesdestroyed, the children killed, the olive treesuprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel aboutAmericans who support the Israelis no matter what theydo to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about theseabuses. Check out the Israeli human-rightsorganization at www.btselem.org/English.If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses ofPalestinians by the Israeli government, then you areundoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig whobelieves that Palestinians are some kind of subspeciesof the human race. If you do condemn in your heartthese terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak outabout them, then you are a damned coward.I listened in disgust to a congressional committeehearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all aboutwhat the Palestinians have to do. It was as if thecops, interviewing a child who had been raped by anadult, lectured the child on dressing provocativelyand of being in places she should not have been in.The Palestinians are the victims here. It is theirland that is occupied. They have no army. They are atthe mercy of the Israeli government. They don't have asuperpower protecting them from internationalsanctions and supplying them with billions of dollars.The United States should be telling Israel to get outof the West Bank and East Jerusalem, to dismantle itssettlements and checkpoints, and to allow Palestinianrefugees to return
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump from a car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back. It's hard to drive slow for that long on the open highway. I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 km for the trip. (That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metrically challenged.) Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast. My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km / hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km. The only time we accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway. But we were often getting passed like we were standing still! Your remark is cogent. I don't think people here actually make the connection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth. We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becoming more common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried to drive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and if you're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become rather annoyed! I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do with that machine is simply NOT drive it at all. Working from home really helps . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Yeah, I know about the getting passed like you are standing still. My truck will do 65 to 70mph on the highway, which isn't bad for a 4 cylinder diesel engine -- probably rated at less horsepower than the stock ford ranger engine in roughly the same size truck. It was funny driving it down through montana and wyoming to colorado -- in wyoming and montana it was fine in the right lane, and the left lane wasn't that much faster except for a few outlying speedsters. But as soon as I crossed the Colorado border, even the right lane was annoyed at me, and the left lane was probably 15 to 20mph faster than me. On 7/19/06, robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their carAlthough I suppose they don't think of it that way.We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back.It's hardto drive slow for that long on the open highway.I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 kmfor the trip.(That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metricallychallenged.)Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast.My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km /hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km.The only timewe accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway.But we were often getting passed like we were standing still!Your remark is cogent.I don't think people here actually make theconnection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth.We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becomingmore common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried todrive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and ifyou're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become ratherannoyed!I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do withthat machine is simply NOT drive it at all.Working from home reallyhelps . . .robert luis rabelloThe Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Yes. Yes. Jason Katie wrote: i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump from a car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Uhh, how can the answer to both questions be yes. If it dissolves, it won't work, right?I'd think it shouldn't have a problem with methanol, since that's in windshield washer fluid anyway, but methoxide is a different monster. Plus, these pumps are pretty chinzy -- I think they'd burn out after not too long of continuous operation even with the nicest fluid. In a 20 year lifetime of a car, it would only run about 60 hours (assumptions: 200,000 miles, 10% of miles require using windshield washers, when using it it is used 3 times per mile, for three 1 second shots each time) On 7/19/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes.Yes.Jason Katie wrote:i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump froma car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well?Jason ICQ#:154998177MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PMSubject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi AllThanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now abiofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 goodbatches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and thehousing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanicalseal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again.I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron,so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pumpplastic? As I know you can get some with stainlesssteel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals.ThanksCharles List This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nzThis email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone,but is not guaranteed to be virus-free.-- ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Hello Bob I think you should check your beliefs. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2921 'Because This Is the Middle East' http://snipurl.com/pg9x Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel 3 Jun 2004 Keith Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fritz Friesinger To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to the occupants of these white settlements? Would you lobby the federal government to subsidize this new apartheid state in our midst? I don't think so. I think most Americans would consider such acts an abomination, un-American and a mockery of everything both Christianity and the United States stand for. Well, if you would condemn such acts here directed against African-Americans, why won't you condemn identical acts committed against the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Those settlements you hear about are built on Palestinian land, and they are for Jews only. New roads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connect them. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israeli checkpoints, where innocent Palestinians are daily humiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby village can mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours. Palestinians have died in these lines. After all of these humiliations, abuses, the houses destroyed, the children killed, the olive trees uprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel about Americans who support the Israelis no matter what they do to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about these abuses. Check out the Israeli human-rights organization at http://www.btselem.org/Englishwww.btselem.org/English. If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses of Palestinians by the Israeli government, then you are undoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig who believes that Palestinians are some kind of subspecies of the human race. If you do condemn in your heart these terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak out about them, then you are a damned coward. I listened in disgust to a congressional committee hearing on the Palestinian elections. It was all about what the Palestinians have to do. It was as if the cops, interviewing a child who had been raped by an adult, lectured the child on dressing provocatively and of being in places she should not have been in. The Palestinians are the victims here. It is their land that is occupied. They have no army. They are at the mercy of the Israeli government. They don't have a superpower protecting them from international sanctions and supplying them with billions of dollars. The United States should be telling Israel to get out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, to dismantle its settlements and checkpoints, and to allow Palestinian refugees to return to or be compensated for the land the Israelis stole. You want to know why we have a problem with terrorism? It's not Islamic fundamentalists or hatred of freedom. It's our support of Israel's unspeakable abuse of Palestinians. Don't blame Osama bin
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Bob, I forgot about your ethnic forebears massacres of the native American population. In numbers it is also comparable. Bob, I have a lot to do and have been silent for a while, but this I have to comment. It was clearly under the belt and very insensitive and outright dumb, especially form an American. US do have their own racism and the internment of Americans with Japanese decent during WWII is nothing to be proud of, not to talk about the racism and prosecution of black people, this still in more recent times. Your comments says more about you than about Fritz. It was very few Germans who knew about what was going on, most knew about internment, but very few about the final solution and even fewer that was involved in it. In fact it was very few that ever read Mein Kampf and had reasons to suspect anything like the final solution. They knew about the interment as the Americans knew about their own internment of Japanese Americans also. The final solution was set in practise by a few and when the German population were more occupied by the war. You are also talking about taking personal responsibility for forefathers and then you are personal responsible for the Japanese internment and prosecution of black people also. Hakan At 05:09 20/07/2006, you wrote: Hello Bob I think you should check your beliefs. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2921 'Because This Is the Middle East' http://snipurl.com/pg9x Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel 3 Jun 2004 Keith Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fritz Friesinger To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to the occupants of these white settlements? Would you lobby the federal government to subsidize this new apartheid state in our midst? I don't think so. I think most Americans would consider such acts an abomination, un-American and a mockery of everything both Christianity and the United States stand for. Well, if you would condemn such acts here directed against African-Americans, why won't you condemn identical acts committed against the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Those settlements you hear about are built on Palestinian land, and they are for Jews only. New roads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connect them. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israeli checkpoints, where innocent Palestinians are daily humiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby village can mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours. Palestinians have died in these lines. After all of these humiliations, abuses, the houses destroyed, the children killed, the olive trees uprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel about Americans who support the Israelis no matter what they do to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about these abuses. Check out the Israeli human-rights organization at
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Bob, I have a lot to do and have been silent for a while, but this I have to comment. It was clearly under the belt and very insensitive and outright dumb, especially form an American. US do have their own racism and the internment of Americans with Japanese decent during WWII is nothing to be proud of, not to talk about the racism and prosecution of black people, this still in more recent times. Your comments says more about you than about Fritz. It was very few Germans who knew about what was going on, most knew about internment, but very few about the final solution and even fewer that was involved in it. In fact it was very few that ever read Mein Kampf and had reasons to suspect anything like the final solution. They knew about the interment as the Americans knew about their own internment of Japanese Americans also. The final solution was set in practise by a few and when the German population were more occupied by the war. You are also talking about taking personal responsibility for forefathers and then you are personal responsible for the Japanese internment and prosecution of black people also. Hakan At 05:09 20/07/2006, you wrote: Hello Bob I think you should check your beliefs. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2921 'Because This Is the Middle East' http://snipurl.com/pg9x Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel 3 Jun 2004 Keith Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fritz Friesinger To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to the occupants of these white settlements? Would you lobby the federal government to subsidize this new apartheid state in our midst? I don't think so. I think most Americans would consider such acts an abomination, un-American and a mockery of everything both Christianity and the United States stand for. Well, if you would condemn such acts here directed against African-Americans, why won't you condemn identical acts committed against the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Those settlements you hear about are built on Palestinian land, and they are for Jews only. New roads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connect them. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israeli checkpoints, where innocent Palestinians are daily humiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby village can mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours. Palestinians have died in these lines. After all of these humiliations, abuses, the houses destroyed, the children killed, the olive trees uprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel about Americans who support the Israelis no matter what they do to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about these abuses. Check out the Israeli human-rights organization at http://www.btselem.org/Englishwww.btselem.org/English. If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses of Palestinians by the Israeli government, then you are
