Re: [biofuel] a question.....
James, Should work well if you can get the picture and its a decent one. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. > I wonder if there's any possibility of getting hold of the picture of > the dog sticking it's nose up a bd Land Rover exhaust pipe. > James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Todd, A good article and one everyone on this group should read. I recently said it is estimated that if we keep finding oil at the same rate it is estimated that we have a 70 year supply but that I believe we could halve that with the increasing number of vehicles and countries like China coming on stream. While I have never sat down and done the maths the examples below show that I may not be too far off the mark. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) > New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html > > The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply > By EVAR D. NERING > > COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the > first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption > of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged > in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the > mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. > > In my classes, I described the following hypothetical situation. We have a > 100-year supply of a resource, say oil - that is, the oil would last 100 > years if it were consumed at its current rate. But the oil is consumed at a > rate that grows by 5 percent each year. How long would it last under these > circumstances? This is an easy calculation; the answer is about 36 years. > > Oh, but let's say we underestimated the supply, and we actually have a > 1,000-year supply. At the same annual 5 percent growth rate in use, how long > will this last? The answer is about 79 years. > > Then let us say we make a striking discovery of more oil yet - a bonanza - > and we now have a 10,000-year supply. At our same rate of growing use, how > long would it last? Answer: 125 years. > > Estimates vary for how long currently known oil reserves will last, though > they are usually considerably less than 100 years. But the point of this > analysis is that it really doesn't matter what the estimates are. There is > no way that a supply-side attack on America's energy problem can work. > > The exponential function describes the behavior of any quantity whose rate > of change is proportional to its size. Compound interest is the most > commonly encountered example - it would produce exponential growth if the > interest were calculated at a continuing rate. I have heard public > statements that use "exponential" as though it describes a large or sudden > increase. But exponential growth does not have to be large, and it is never > sudden. Rather, it is inexorable. > > Calculations also show that if consumption of an energy resource is allowed > to grow at a steady 5 percent annual rate, a full doubling of the available > supply will not be as effective as reducing that growth rate by half - to > 2.5 percent. Doubling the size of the oil reserve will add at most 14 years > to the life expectancy of the resource if we continue to use it at the > currently increasing rate, no matter how large it is currently. On the other > hand, halving the growth of consumption will almost double the life > expectancy of the supply, no matter what it is. > > This mathematical reality seems to have escaped the politicians pushing to > solve our energy problem by simply increasing supply. Building more power > plants and drilling for more oil is exactly the wrong thing to do, because > it will encourage more use. If we want to avoid dire consequences, we need > to find the political will to reduce the growth in energy consumption to > zero - or even begin to consume less. > > I must emphasize that reducing the growth rate is not what most people are > talking about now when they advocate conservation; the steps they recommend > are just Band-Aids. If we increase the gas mileage of our automobiles and > then drive more miles, for example, that will not reduce the growth rate. > > Reducing the growth of consumption means living closer to where we work or > play. It means telecommuting. It means controlling population growth. It > means shifting to renewable energy sources. > > It is not, perhaps, necessary to cut our use of oil, but it is essential > that we cut the rate of increase at which we consume it. To do otherwise is > to leave our descendants in an impoverished world. > Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State > University. > > Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State > University. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Copper, Hose in hose, etc...
Hi Ed, I look forward with interest to what you have on the list and to the various components and equipment you come up with. While a lot of equipment can be made here by those who want and are able to do so there is undoubtedly a lot of equipment out of North America which will be cheaper on specific and specialised items which are specifically designed for that purpose and where economies of scale in sourcing and purchasing can be achieved. I certainly think and believe that the MIL-MAC has a place with various biofuels. One of the things I would mention in relation to the MIL-MAC tests that were done by IPL here was that the lab manager told me that the 47 second time to pass 500 ml with the filtered diesel was a very good time and was what they aim at for good diesel. They could probably get below this but the viscosity of the diesel would have to be lower obviously. From this I surmise that the filter removed most of the contaminants which is something I already knew from my own experience that it would do. My only concern here is how long it would last with fresh SVO especially if there is a high level of phospholipids as some of these chemical chains can be fairly long. It is probably not a concern as I know they will last up to 10,000 km without problems with straight engine oil. You would probably have to change them more often thats all. As I am advising everyone to change them at the 5000 km mark at this stage to ensure the contaminants are removed on a regular basis and telling people they should not go past this point without regular fluids analysis it should not present any problems at this point. I know they are getting up to 50,000 km with the big Harvards which hold something like 10 to 12 litres just in the filter unit itself on the big trucks such as the 600 hp Macks etc. using P.O.A. once a week and Laboratory Fluids Analysis once a month but I prefer to make sure the contaminants are removed on a more regular basis myself at this point. Tried running my small demonstration unit for several hours on Friday with a particularly dirty SAE 40 oil and had no problem doing that. The flow was as good at the end as the start. The only thing I would say was that the small electric pump motor body was a bit hot which is probably not to be unexpected seeing it was pumping about 1.8 to 2 litres per minute. At this stage the lab has retained the diesel which I supplied them with probably to do some further tests and probably to see what size the filtering actually went down to as they carefully decanted the remainder from the jerry cans after asking and before they returned the cans to me. At this stage as BP have paid for the tests and will be picking up the tab for anything else that is done the report will go to them first but hopefully I will get access to any other results. B.r., David - Original Message - From: NBT - E. Beggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:51 AM Subject: [biofuel] Copper, Hose in hose, etc... > > We are setting up to supply a wide range of components for those interested > in building their own "SRO" (SVO) systems as well as filtration and > biodiesel processor systems for small scale operations. > > By buying components in quantity, some made to our specifications, we can > offer reasonable prices, ease of construction and use of systems, proven > performance, and so on, to those who wish to make use of renewable oil fuels > but do not wish to source all the bits and pieces and do all their own > research and experimentation. We will be happy to discuss sourcing > components from those on this list who have good products/components that we > might look at offering for re-sale (Hi David, and yes I'm thinking of the > Mil-Mac!) > > Stay tuned and follow our ongoing progress at www.biofuels.ca over the next > few months. Now that the !#$^ thesis is finally done, and I have a wee bit > more time, my business partner Henry Mackaay and myself can get on with > development of the company. > > BTW, Henry and family will be travelling from BC to Ontario and back with an > 88 Ford diesel crew cab and a 28' 5th wheel next month, so watch for updates > on that. He'll be using SRO the whole trip, about a 5000 mile round trip. I > will also be taking a 77 Mercedes 300D on SRO to Ontario from BC next few > months. > > Thanks! > > Ed Beggs Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio washing
Indeed true as fluid has to be pumped up whereas air only has to be pushed down. This brings up another point. Often wonder when using this bubblewashing process in an area with high humidity how much moisture is added to the mix from the latent moisture in the air and what its affect upon the mix and the final outcome is? When you consider bubblewashing can last a considerable time and the amount of air pumped through the mix can be a considerable volume it must be possible under some conditions to add a reasonable amount of water to the mix. Under normal conditions with low r.h the amount of moisture added is probably pretty well much the same as that evaporated at the surface as the air breaks the surface I imagine. Anyone with any comments or vast experience on this? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Biofuels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio washing > Uses more energy to pump water than it does to pump air.# > Number of droplets formed, unless under high pressure, does not equal number > of bubbles formed therefore will not be as effective. > I counted them. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio washing
James, David, et al, This sounds like a good idea and I believe should work well. Have you got access to a good cheap small magnetic drive pump James perhaps. (bit of a contradiction lumping good and cheap together when it comes to mag drives). Believe this would work very well and is an idea I have been considering myself as with a little experience you should be able to get the flow just right and to optimise the process. My only concern would be over the oxidation of the biodiesel. Have wondered if this has any affect in the past and have looked for information on this but as I have never found any mention of it believe it must be irrelevant and of no importance. Aleks or anyone with a good chemical background would you like to comment? B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Teal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio washing > James wrote: > "I'm thinking of tapping off from the base of the washing vessel and > pumping the water / bio back into the top of the vessel via a > domestic shower head. Has anyone tried this? > I'm also wondering what I can do with the residual water after the > cleaning process is completed. > James" > > I think this is a good idea, though I have not tried it. Water here is > 'hard' and foaming is not a problem with bubble wash. Washwater can be used > as a mild weedkiller. > > David T Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Greg, Havnt followed you here. Are you talking about what Steve has done or what I have suggested with the shotgun heat exchanger. You mentioned a hose within a hose using insulated radiator hose. If you are talking about this type of setup which is the most basic heat exchanger with the copper tube inside the rubber hose with a tee either end it will work reasonably satisfactorily but nowhere as quick or as fast as a shotgun heat exchanger. These are basically the same principle multiplied a number of times so every tube has a full 360 degree contact with the heating fluid and conduction is very rapid. If the heat source of the heating fluid is hot enough it is quite often possible to have cold fluid entering at one end and emerging close to the initial temperature of the heating fluid in a very short length. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Greg Yohn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > I know it sounds simple, but copper fittings are soldered together and then > the copper tubing is soldered in place forcing the coolant out the side "T" > fitting. Its much better than compression fittings and copper heats the oil > better than plastic tubing in transit to the fuel injectors. Hey, its so > easy that I can do it Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Thanks Greg, Thats what I thought he was talking about. The other though more difficult initially would be much better and ensure better combustion. Heat exchangers if made properly especially as in the shotgun configuration I am talking about are extremely efficient devices. When matched with electronic controls and simple solenoid and needle valves they can give you extremely precise control (Not called for in this simple setup but well worth bearing in mind for other applications). In this case he could use the heat exchanger to raise the temperature further before injection and combustion, using the cooling water once it has been through the heat exchanger to heat and liquify the oil before it is returned to the radiator. What keeps the copper tube in the centre of the hose or is this spirally wound? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Greg Yohn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:33 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > David: > > Steve is talking about 15 feet. Its a hose-within-a-hose using insulated > radiator hose and copper tubing. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Steve do you mean 15 inch or 15 feet? Someone recently mentioned shotgun heat exchangers on this n.g or the distillers n.g. and this is an ideal situation for its application I imagine. Would be easy enough to rig one of these up between the motor and the engine in place of the return hose I imagine. In this case you might have to use a higher temperature actauated thermostat but should work very well I thought. Other alternative is to tap into the system before the thermostat and return it just before it. In this case you may then need to insulate the heat exchanger body especially for winter driving as if the heat exchanger takes too much heat out of the water the thermostat may close shutting your water flow off. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > stay tuned for the pics of the vw jetta that Greg Yohn and I are converting > to veggie oil. I designed and built the 15' long heat exchanger yesterday, > Greg is designing the heated tank this weekend. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Horse Manure
Hell, why stop there. Why not try 230 v . After your tongue diasappears or at least turns black you will know for sure with 100% certainty that it works. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Horse Manure >Sure it will work, in the same way running a current through a pile of > wet leaves will work. It doesn't mean the doo-doo has potential energy, it > just means it has continuity, (you can do the same thing with a 9 volt > battery on your tongue). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Simple Performance Product Saves Gas and Boosts Performance
Dick, One of these may be worth fitting in addition to your fogger. Better swirl will give you better atomization and this in turn will give you better and more consistent combustion. Probably well worth trying in my opinion. B,r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 7:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] Simple Performance Product Saves Gas and Boosts Performance > http://ens.lycos.com/e-wire/May01/30May0101.html > May 30, 2001 - * > A Simple Performance Product That Saves Gas and Boosts Performance > > Green Under the Hood > > SANTA FE SPRINGS, CA, May 30 -/E-Wire/-- > According to the recent article in SEMA News, Another by-product of > the search for more efficient, less polluting products is the > discovery of "bright ideas" that really work. Not every product that > extends fuel economy requires a redesign from the ground up. > > An example of this is the TORNADO Air Management System. Promising > more power and better mileage for less than $100, the TORNADO's > biggest problem is that nobody tends to believe its claims. That's > how Ron Bell, department chair of Saddleback College's Automotive > Technology department, felt when he first heard about this unimposing > device. "It was about 6 years ago from one of my students. It came > with some wild claims and sounded too good to be true. > > I know how hard it is to gain horsepower and mileage at the same > time. So, I contacted Jay Kim, TORNADO's president, and he agreed to > come down to the college and show me some samples. I also started > testing on our chassis dyno and saw some positive results. "I ended > up putting one on my Volvo and noticed a difference right away, > especially in part-throttle response and the mid-ranges when > acceleration on the freeway. Mileage improved slightly, but I'm not a > mileage freak; I care about performance, so I put on my Corvette and > also my dual quad powered big-block Aston-Martin, and again noticed a > difference right away. "I've seen more improvement in mileage and > have noticed improvements in hydrocarbon reduction in our emissions > testing program here at the college." > > TORNADO is environmentally friendly, priced $69 and has a 30-day > money back guarantee and limited lifetime warranty. For more > information, contact 562 926-5000 Fax 562 926-1223; 13360-H Firestone > Blvd., Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670, or visit www.TORNADOair.com. > > Corporate and government users of the TORNADO include Harris County, > Hoston, TX; City of Norwalk, CA; the Boise Police Dpt; JC Whitney: > Camping World and more. > > SOURCE: TORNADO > > -0- 05/30/2001 > > /CONTACT: Jay Kim 562 926-5000 Fax 562 926-1223; 13360-H Firestone > Blvd., Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670/ > > /Web Site: http://www.TORNADOair.com/ > > http://www.TORNADOair.com/what_is_it_.htm > What is it? > Tornado! What exactly is it? Lots of questions, right? Well, it is an > air-TWISTER, patented worldwide, with 10 years of research & > development behind it; the TORNADO is an automotive air channeling > tool that creates a swirling air motion, allowing the air to move > faster and more efficiently by continuously whirling air around > corners and bends - imagine a mini-tornado on its side moving through > the intakes of your automobile. It causes better fuel atomization, > resulting in an increase of gas mileage up to 24%. These figures are > confirmed by road testing performed at an emission lab licensed by > the EPA. Dyno testing shows up to 20 added H.P. as well! The TORNADO > is easy to install; 2-5 minutes usually, requires no maintenance and > is an affordable addition to most passenger cars, light trucks and > RVs on the road. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 2:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > >Hanns, > > The only way you can change things is to get out and do them. If > >you wait for others you will still be sitting there talking about it in 10 > >years time. The problem is not that people think differently to you but that > >most of them dont think fullstop. I am often reminded of an old teeshirt > >saying which use to say "We are not Yes men we say No when the boss does". > >So typically true of most of us. Go to it and you will have a vastly greater > >affect than anyone philosophying about it. > >B.r., David > > "Seek and ye shall find", David - a low opinion of people and > humanity in general tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course > there's plenty of evidence of it, but there's plenty of the opposite > evidence too, and you don't have to be a Pollyanna to see it, nor is > there any need for rose-tinted specs. I've investigated and reported > on and experienced the darknesses and horrors and blights for too > long ever to be unaware of them, it's what propels me, but I > nonetheless see every reason for optimism, and I have great faith in > the good sense of ordinary people. ** Couldnt agree more. I dont have a low opinion of people but do have a very heavy healthy cynical attitude that is based on the recognition that most people are not thinkers. Given the opportunity and challenge most people rise to it and if listened to the solutions they provide or come up with are often a lot better than those put forward by the so called experts and those appointed to the job. > And indeed, go to it, yes, but, philosophising or not, please be sure > of what you're doing first, especially in Third World issues - people > with lots of energy and endless goodwill who just want to help can > cause a lot of damage. It's fraught with pitfalls, of a special type: > you make the mistakes, others suffer for it later after you've gone > home feeling good about yourself because you've "helped" them. Maybe > what kind of effect is more important than how great it might be. > These are ecological matters, and the main (only) rule of ecology is > that everything is connected to everything else - it needs a bit > better than just good intentions. ** Also couldnt agree more. The worst of the lot seems to be religious evangelism. Having spent 7 years of my life on the road travelling and working in all sorts of places around the world I am am only too aware of what damage good intentioned organizations can cause. Most of the good I have seen is done by small organizations and individuals who have seen the need, risen to the need, got off their butts, rolled up their shirt sleeves, and got stuck in. In my experience sitting around and pontificating about things without actual practical involvement very often achieves very little. If for example you take the case of biodiesel in this group the guys who are achieving something in this group and making it possible for others are the people like Aleks Kac with a better process, Simon Wells with a simple mixer, and Ian with a resonable small plant layout. Along with these are all the others who are actively participating and people like yourself and Steve who are actively participating in the exchange of ideas. An idea by itself is all it is and all it remains. When married or linked to practical application and doing something concrete is created. The computer like tv is one of the best educational and most useful tools ever created but like tv put in the wrong hands has led to more and more centralised control and one of the more time wasting devices available to man. B.r., David > Best wishes > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Horse Manure
A lot of it is possibly to old to be used. Must have held a political rally and a lot of it is possibly pre-election B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Horse Manure > >I have approximately 160,000 cubic yard of horse > >manure in New Mexico. Does anyone know of someone who > >might be interested in it to convert into fuel? > >Carl > > That's 80,000 tons of horseshit! How on earth did you manage to > accumulate so much? What condition is it in? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative
Keith, These are certainly cheaper than the ss ones. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative > >Ian, et al, > > Are you aware that there are sintered stainless steel air > >stones used by the beer and fermentation industries available. > >B.r., David > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#wash > High-quality bubble stones for biodiesel washing -- instead of > plastic these are sintered bronze and won't be affected by alcohol. > Listed as sintered bronze muffler filters 40 micron. Sized form 1/8 > to 3/4" pipe size fitting, $1.62 to $5.24 US plus S&H. MSC Industrial > Supply Co. Phone 1 800 645 7270. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] or > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for technical enquiries. (Found by Gene > Hoxie, Sheridan Wy.) > http://www.MSCdirect.com/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative
They are certainly not cheap but then again they are permanent. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative > The ones ive seen so far have been expensive, but that was a different route > than brewers. > Thanks for that David. > Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Standards - was Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:10 PM
Subject: Standards - was Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
> I agree with you anyway, but my lamentation over filtering didn't
> refer to the need to filter the biodiesel, and the main problem in
> this case is that it's not biodiesel anyway, but that's what they're
> calling it.
** At the end of the day there will probably be several forms of biodiesel.
Not sure I would have called the Russian petrol or gasoline I got in
Afghanistan years ago either but at the end of the day that was its generic
name and what I ran the vehicle on even if it didnt look like or smell like
these.
> When you first start using biodiesel, even excellent biodiesel, you
> have to check the fuel filter often at first because the stuff
> loosens up all the gunk previously laid down by the dinodiesel. These
> people clearly aren't being told that - but I don't know if this
> mixture of coconut oil and petrodiesel ("blend" might be stretching
> it a bit) has the same detergent effect or not.
** Anything with a slightly different chemical formula frees up and releases
a lot of caked on or built up carbon, varnish, sludge etc. When a by-pass
filter is fitted you would be amazed at how much this quickly pulls out of
the system because instead of letting the carbons and other contaminants to
circulate these are immediately pulled out and the oil which then retains
its initial viscoscity and most of its additives can quickly get at the
deposits rather than having a barrier between them. When fitted to a new
engine you would be amazed at the amount of metal filings and other rubbish
there is in a motor. After looking at the ones I have already seen the terms
"exacting automobile engineers" and "precision engineering" are a bit of a
joke and appear to be a complete contradiction of my understanding of the
terms.
>
> Coco-diesel might indeed work as claimed, if made to standard, I
> don't know that either, but it seems clear there aren't any quality
> controls at work in this case.
** This is why I believe minimum standards are very important and need to
be implemented quickly. As an analogy Would you visit a brothel if you knew
all the girls working there had aids? In the end shoddy standards reflect
upon the others in the industry and drive away those people wishing to
enter.
> I'm not knocking it - as Terry says, "any petrodiesel replaced is
> good petrodiesel!" But I haven't seen any reliable test results. The
> whole thing seems to be a sloppy mess that won't do anyone much good
> except maybe a few quick-buck artists.
>
> >Keith,
> > You are not the only one. I have just been waiting for this to
> >happen and quite frankly I am suprised it has taken as long as this to
> >arise. I believe this is always going to be a problem with small scale
> >production but at the same time I am most definitely for small scale
> >production as I see this area being of most help to the initial producer
and
> >being able to quickly feed back the benefits to those it can most benfit.
I
> >do not wish to see the industry concentrated into the hands or as an
adjunct
> >of the big oil companies whose record over the last 100 years speaks for
> >itself showing a history of exploitation, abuse, and denial of the rights
of
> >the individual and minor countries. At the same time I believe anyone
who
> >is manufacturing and onselling for profit should have a moral and legal
> >responsibility to produce and provide biodiesel to an acceptable
standard.
> >This is why I would like to see any manufacturer anywhere bound by
minimum
> >legal standards which can be upheld and enforced.
>
> That would take time, and wouldn't be easy. I'd like to see an
> international association of biodiesel and biofuels producers who
> developed and upheld their own standards among themselves, for their
> own good and the good of all.
** Quite agreed. I believe the easiest way to do this is for every country
to implement its own standards. Generally the easiest
way to do this is to pay attention to what has gone before and implement
those standards as ones own or make the necessary minor adjustments based on
experience and requirement.
ernational Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements. None of it
> was legally binding (until the gummints came along, and messed it all
> up many say), but it worked well.
>
> There'd be a case for saying that small-scale local producers might
> need less regulating than monstrosities like Big Oil - we all know
> what "self-regulation" means to them! When you're part of a local
> community you're dealing with people who know you, your reputation
> really matters and it can't be rigged via a bit of spin and some loot
> slipped to the politicians.
>
> Best
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>
> >B.r., David
> >
> >-
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Hanns, The only way you can change things is to get out and do them. If you wait for others you will still be sitting there talking about it in 10 years time. The problem is not that people think differently to you but that most of them dont think fullstop. I am often reminded of an old teeshirt saying which use to say "We are not Yes men we say No when the boss does". So typically true of most of us. Go to it and you will have a vastly greater affect than anyone philosophying about it. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > Keith, Harry et al, > > Have been reading this stuff with great interest. Am wondering if there is > some way all of us likeminded people could pool ideas and come up with > something practical that just might begin to make a difference. In my > opinion as long as our young keep on getting fed with all this materialistic > image/gadgets/fashion/video hits/yuppie crap that is dished out by the media > industry each day so that the mega conglomerates can endlessly increase > their markets, we will remain in a no win situation all round. > > What happened to the great movements of generations past? Where people for > right or wrong reasons stood by the courage of their convictions and were > prepared to suffer for them if necessary. The Boston Pilgrims, the Boer > Trekkers, the Mormons just to mention a few? Today all we seem to do is > talk, Phillip Adams calls himself and us "the chattering classes". Sure the > Green peace activists play Russian roulette with fuel tankers, tie > themselves to trees etc., but at the end of the day we all go home watch the > telly, eat a Japanese restaurants and wear Calvin Klein clothes. > > Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but I wish there was something we could > do that would just make a little bit of real difference. > > I bet the CIA is busy lurking on this list ;-) > > Hanns > > -Original Message- > From: Gary and Jos Kimlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2001 4:36 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472 > > > Now you have made me think!! > Naturally I don't mean to support the global free trade push, rather I > support regulation at the national level, but it is the mechanism of that > regulation I am struggling to identify. > I like your point about real capitalism as opposed to the corporate way. > Unfortunately the pooling of resources may be a characteristic of modern man > in that it gave a selective advantage to the tribes that employed it best. I > am not convinced that this is intrinsically evil. Even at a village level > those who benefit from working together need a way to demonstrate a social > conscience, in the absence of a spiritual incentive, taxation seems > appropriate. > > <---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair > and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, > to present low and middle income taxpayers."> > I agree that socialised costs, either infrastructure or environmental, are > paid for by taxes. There are more low and middle taxpayers and therein lies > the democratic possibility of shifting the tax burden to where it belongs. > And yes it may well be a trickle down effect but without some mitigating > mechanism the efficient capitalists tend to condense to corporations. > A classic criticism of taxing wealth is that it removes the incentive for > economic advancement, that of course is the idea, by providing incentive for > the poor and removing the incentive above some point we may reduce the gap > between the rich and poor. It also caps the local capitalist. If we can't do > that in developed countries what chance else where. > > > instances where the Green Revolution reduced infant and mother > mortality rates, many instances of it doing the opposite.> > > Population would not have increased without a higher survival rate- > naturally the population expands to meet another (or the same) limiting > factor. If we rationalise the obvious- that the children we help to survive > will contribute to further population pressure- we are on dangerous ground. > The best way I can detect to prevent this is to properly educate the > children and provide them with social (including food) security by taxing > those who accumulate the wealth. ( Increases in productivity do produce > wealth and it does accumulate some where.) > This is improving my expression but I am still waiting for mechanism. > "Come the revolution" is no longer good enough, nor can we wait for some > genius, we need to find ways to turn the tide ourselves and use the > expanding environmental movement to affect the democratic system. Our "green > platitudes" work on the converted, pragmatic sustainability and transparent > mechanics of change may work on the majority. > You have offered some in
Re: [biofuel] Re: bubble wash alternative
Because these block up very quickly if you are talking about cartridge type filters. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:15 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: bubble wash alternative > Why not just use a 5 micron diesel fuel filter to clean up your > biodiesel? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative
Ian, et al, Are you aware that there are sintered stainless steel air stones used by the beer and fermentation industries available. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Doing what comes naturally
Ian, It is a longwhile since I was in the UK but suspect the situation is the same there as here. Here in NZ to have a car on the road you must have either a current W.O.F. (Warrant of Fitness. for a private car) or a C.O.F. (Certificate of Fitness. for a commercial truck) and the vehicle must be currently registered (which is done by prepaying the govt tax for 6 months or 1 year. On top of this if you have a diesel vehicle you must pay mileage tax which you also must prepay. While there is a small tolerance or leeway going past the limit you have prepaid for entails a fine with the vehicle not allowed back on the road until the back mileage tax is paid for. It makes no difference if the vehicle runs on dino diesel or biodiesel road mileage tax is payable regardless. The thinking behind this is that all road users must pay for the use of the roads. In the case of an electric car there is no mileage tax but again it nust be warranted and registered. At times the motorist feels a little bit hard done by here but compared to the rest of the world we are exceedingly well off in the minimum amount it costs to keep a car on the road. Where we pay for it is in the high cost of imported and replacement parts plus the high insurance rates. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Doing what comes naturally > Prob is, most people prefer clandestine production. > What is needed is a test case for the person who cares for their family, > people and environment, making a small amount of fuel to fill his/her own > car up. > He/she lives in fear of being caught, but at the same time he/she pays the > taxes on raw materials, pays it regulary on his/her wages (dohh, this > his/her thing) > ok, it, it -pays the road tax on its car. > How can it be, a road taxed electric car can run on a british public road > and pay no duty? or am i wrong here? > But for oil you pay the duty, but this oil isnt fossil. > Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
Hi Ken, To find out what a MIL-MAC is and so we dont become a nuisance to others go and do a search of the Archives by going to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages and typing in MIL-MAC or by-pass filter in the search box and hitting the Search Archive button. All the info you require is there. If you need further info feel free to contact me direct by sending me a private e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering > What is a MIL-Mac Fuel Filter? Where can you buy this? Is there a > "generic" name for this or is it used specifically by any vehicle? What > really is the mesh size of this filter, we maybe able to use filters for > water with the same mesh size... any comments to this > > Ken C. > > At 10:17 AM 5/31/01 +1200, you wrote: > >PROOF THAT MIL-MAC FUEL FILTERS WORK > >Further to my earlier e-mail below following are the results of fuel filter > >tests conducted on diesel fuel untreated (direct from pump at the local > >service station) and the same fuel after being run through a MIL-MAC fuel > >filter. The tests were conducted by IPL (the laboratory attached to the New > >Zealand Refinery Co refinery at Marsden Point the sole refinery in New > >Zealand and the provider to all the 5 major oil companies and over 95% of NZ > >fuel and oil requirements) an independent laboratory which does all the > >analytical work for the refinery. The tests were paid for by BP who were > >also interested in the results and there is no way the results can be > >misrepresented or misconstrued. > >As people may be aware we have a major fuel problem in NZ at present with > >about 350,000,000 litres of diesel, which has been prepared for the winter > >season with the addition of a polymer additive, which is now distributed > >throughout the country, and which is now causing rough running, some engine > >stoppages, some injector pump fouling, and heavy fuel filter fouling. The > >oil companies have all said they will pay for filter relacements. The > >problem is a lot of filters are fouling quite rapidly. The problem is caused > >by the additive which is not dissolving into the fuel properly and remaining > >in suspension but separating out and clumping together blocking up filters > >etc. As a result the fishing industry has been unoperational for a week now, > >it being considered too unsafe to let fishing boats put to sea. Also a > >number of freight operators have pulled vehicles off the road and quite a > >lot of private motorists have been affected at the same time. > >The tests conducted were a rather simple one which appears to be a fairly > >universal one, filtering 500 ml through a certain screen size in 3 minutes > >or less. If the filter passes the 500ml in under 3 minutes then it is an > >automatic pass, and if the amount is under 500ml then it is an automatic > >fail. In this case the size of the additive particles can be up to 8 micron > >in size going down to virtually zero or dissolvement. > >Test 1: Untreated diesel direct from pump. > >Time: 180 seconds (3 minutes) > >Passed: 355 ml > >Result: Failed. > >Test 2: Diesel filtered through MIL-MAC Fuel filter. > > Time: 47 seconds > > Passed: 500 ml > > Result: Passed > >As can be seen from the above results all filtered diesel passed in under > >one minute at the average rate of over 10 ml per second. whereas with the > >untreated diesel only 71% passed in the full test period. In this case the > >filtered diesel passed at over 5 times the speed of the unfiltered diesel. > >I believe these filters have direct application to the Biofuel industry and > >would advise all end users to fit one or an identical similar type filter > >that will filter to the same degree to all vehicles using biodiesel or > >standard filtered vegetable oil. > >B.r., David > > > >- Original Message - > >From: David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:31 AM > >Subject: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: EREN Network News -- 5/30/01
Havnt had time to read all but cellulase project looks interesting. B,r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Standards for Biodiesel
Ken, I dont agree. The manufacturing process is fairly simple and is not expensive to set up. I believe all biodiesel that is being SOLD should be filtered and to an acceptable standard. What I wish to see here is not the exclusion of the small person but the exclusion of substandard manufacturing plant such as rusty drums, laundry tubs, and other grossly inferior equipment and materials which will lead to greatly inferior standards. For the sake of the industry some minimum standards are required. How would you feel if you just bought an expensive vehicle (remember vehicles in third world countries while they may be cheap by standards in developed countries still represent a heavy investment), and you then used biodiesel you purchased in good faith but which was grossly inferior which lead to the breakdown and damage to the motor? If the seller was able to walk away saying "its not my fault he shouldnt have bought it in the first place" I can tell you that you would feel pretty ripped off. For this reason minimum standards are required. I agree with you when manufacturing for your own use the standards dont have to be as high, but for onsale an acceptable standard must apply. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Standards for Biodiesel > David Reid writes: > > >...At the same time I believe anyone who > >is manufacturing and selling for profit should have a moral and legal > >responsibility to produce and provide biodiesel to an acceptable standard. > >This is why I would like to see any manufacturer anywhere bound by minimum > >legal standards which can be upheld and enforced. > > That's why I'd rather not go for profit -- let the corporations do > that, they're > going to make the government regulate the hell out of it anyway (for their own > benefit, of course!) We little people can stick with co-ops, pooling our own > resources and labor to get cheap fuel for our own use. Any bigger than that > and we'll be squashed.-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
PROOF THAT MIL-MAC FUEL FILTERS WORK Further to my earlier e-mail below following are the results of fuel filter tests conducted on diesel fuel untreated (direct from pump at the local service station) and the same fuel after being run through a MIL-MAC fuel filter. The tests were conducted by IPL (the laboratory attached to the New Zealand Refinery Co refinery at Marsden Point the sole refinery in New Zealand and the provider to all the 5 major oil companies and over 95% of NZ fuel and oil requirements) an independent laboratory which does all the analytical work for the refinery. The tests were paid for by BP who were also interested in the results and there is no way the results can be misrepresented or misconstrued. As people may be aware we have a major fuel problem in NZ at present with about 350,000,000 litres of diesel, which has been prepared for the winter season with the addition of a polymer additive, which is now distributed throughout the country, and which is now causing rough running, some engine stoppages, some injector pump fouling, and heavy fuel filter fouling. The oil companies have all said they will pay for filter relacements. The problem is a lot of filters are fouling quite rapidly. The problem is caused by the additive which is not dissolving into the fuel properly and remaining in suspension but separating out and clumping together blocking up filters etc. As a result the fishing industry has been unoperational for a week now, it being considered too unsafe to let fishing boats put to sea. Also a number of freight operators have pulled vehicles off the road and quite a lot of private motorists have been affected at the same time. The tests conducted were a rather simple one which appears to be a fairly universal one, filtering 500 ml through a certain screen size in 3 minutes or less. If the filter passes the 500ml in under 3 minutes then it is an automatic pass, and if the amount is under 500ml then it is an automatic fail. In this case the size of the additive particles can be up to 8 micron in size going down to virtually zero or dissolvement. Test 1: Untreated diesel direct from pump. Time: 180 seconds (3 minutes) Passed: 355 ml Result: Failed. Test 2: Diesel filtered through MIL-MAC Fuel filter. Time: 47 seconds Passed: 500 ml Result: Passed As can be seen from the above results all filtered diesel passed in under one minute at the average rate of over 10 ml per second. whereas with the untreated diesel only 71% passed in the full test period. In this case the filtered diesel passed at over 5 times the speed of the unfiltered diesel. I believe these filters have direct application to the Biofuel industry and would advise all end users to fit one or an identical similar type filter that will filter to the same degree to all vehicles using biodiesel or standard filtered vegetable oil. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering > Keith, > You are not the only one. I have just been waiting for this to > happen and quite frankly I am suprised it has taken as long as this to > arise. I believe this is always going to be a problem with small scale > production but at the same time I am most definitely for small scale > production as I see this area being of most help to the initial producer and > being able to quickly feed back the benefits to those it can most benfit. I > do not wish to see the industry concentrated into the hands or as an adjunct > of the big oil companies whose record over the last 100 years speaks for > itself showing a history of exploitation, abuse, and denial of the rights of > the individual and minor countries. At the same time I believe anyone who > is manufacturing and onselling for profit should have a moral and legal > responsibility to produce and provide biodiesel to an acceptable standard. > This is why I would like to see any manufacturer anywhere bound by minimum > legal standards which can be upheld and enforced. > B.r., David > > - Original Message - > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:56 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Coco-diesel - Engine repair claims turned down > > > > I've been expecting something like this. I've had doubts that this > > SVO mixture that's being misnamed "biodiesel" would escape the need > > for a dual-fuel system. This could do a lot of harm. Not cleaning the > > filters either. Mess. :-( Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The importance of proper filtering
Keith, You are not the only one. I have just been waiting for this to happen and quite frankly I am suprised it has taken as long as this to arise. I believe this is always going to be a problem with small scale production but at the same time I am most definitely for small scale production as I see this area being of most help to the initial producer and being able to quickly feed back the benefits to those it can most benfit. I do not wish to see the industry concentrated into the hands or as an adjunct of the big oil companies whose record over the last 100 years speaks for itself showing a history of exploitation, abuse, and denial of the rights of the individual and minor countries. At the same time I believe anyone who is manufacturing and onselling for profit should have a moral and legal responsibility to produce and provide biodiesel to an acceptable standard. This is why I would like to see any manufacturer anywhere bound by minimum legal standards which can be upheld and enforced. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Coco-diesel - Engine repair claims turned down > I've been expecting something like this. I've had doubts that this > SVO mixture that's being misnamed "biodiesel" would escape the need > for a dual-fuel system. This could do a lot of harm. Not cleaning the > filters either. Mess. :-( > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Engine repair claims turned down > > Bangkok Post 28 May 2001 > Carmakers, insurers want fuel regulated > Walailak Keeratipipatpong > Santan Santivimolnat > > Motorists keen to use biodiesel as fuel are thinking twice as > carmakers and insurance companies are refusing to take responsibility > for engine damage. > > Repair guarantees and insurance will not cover the damage until > specifications of alternative fuels are set by regulators, the > companies say. > > A Nakhon Pathom motorist, Praphan Morakotchinda, 26, is a test case. > The employee of a private company filled the tank of his Ford Ranger > pickup with 16 litres of biodiesel, which cost him 200 baht from a > filling station in Sampran district. > > When he turned on the ignition, the engine started working but the > car did not move. He added more diesel oil to the tank, but to no > avail. > > A technician inspected the engine and told him to replace the filter, > which was full of dirt and grease. However, the pickup would not > budge until all the fuel had been pumped out and replaced by > undiluted diesel oil. > > The owner of the service station told Mr Praphan that he had bought > the biodiesel from Samut Sakhon. The mixture contained 30% diesel oil > and 70% coconut oil. > > As the pickup was still covered by a sales warranty, Mr Praphan asked > whether his car dealer would replace the filter at no charge. The > dealer refused. As well, Mr Praphan's insurance company declined to > pay the cost of replacing the filter. > > Insurance industry spokesmen say they are worried there will be a > rash of claims resulting from the increasing use of many types of > blended fuels, none of which are covered by regulations. > > Nopadol Santipakorn, vice-chairman of the auto insurance group of the > General Insurance Association, said engine damage caused by the use > of non-regulated petroleum products would not be covered by insurance. > > "Insurance covers damage to the bodywork and engine in an accident, > not the use of fuels other than those specified in the driver's > manual." > > If a motorist wanted additional coverage for alternative fuels, it > could be obtained through buying a special insurance policy against > damage by innovations and inventions. New types of drugs, tyres and > fuel would fall in this category, he said. > > Noravat Suwan, head of the Insurance Department, said that under > current regulations "vehicle-friendly" biodiesel must be at least 90% > diesel oil, the other ingredient being purified palm or coconut oil, > as stated by the Petroleum Authority of Thailand. > > An employee of Tri Petch Isuzu Sales Co, the country's biggest seller > of light trucks, said the company would accept claims only if the > vehicle had been used according to the conditions specified in the > warranty. > > He said that no industry organisation or state agency had yet > certified biofuels, especially biodiesel, as suitable for auto > engines. Therefore, it was difficult to accept repair claims. > However, the company would check whether the breakdown was due to > biofuels or defective engine parts. > > A mechanic at Toyota Mahanakhorn Co, a major Toyota dealer in > Bangkok, said he could not confirm whether the warranty was > invalidated if Toyota trucks were powered by biofuels. > > "For any claim that is outside the warranty conditions, the dealers > have to consult the
[biofuel] CMS Paragon mini turbine
Hi David C and others who are interested, Just received the following reply re Paragon mini turbine. B.r., David Mr Reid: As EPI is currently testing our first unit at a land fill site in New Jersey, firm technical data and costs will not be available until such time as testing is complete and we are moving toward full production. We can only predict that this will occur sometime this year. It is our intent to test our (CMS) field unit in Canada on a flare gas application. Thank you for your interest. Kyle King Canadian Microturbine Systems David Reid wrote: >Jim, > Would like some more info on your Paragon series Micro Turbine at > some point (no hurry) including indicative prices. Thanks. >Best regards, David Reid >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >78 Wade River Rd, Whangaparaoa, Auckland 1463, New Zealand -- Jim Fiddler -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnets in fuel line.
Sam, How could you have got it so wrong. He is not I am. When you give me reasonable proof I will support you and install one myself. Until then I remain sceptical and aloof. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:25 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnets in fuel line. > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > the only thing going on is the begining of a scam. these numbers > look like > > an outright fabrication. > > > > Steve Spence > > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > > we borrow it from our children. > > Scuze me folks, like I said, "EPA is not God." > Spence IS!!! > };^) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] more on Jerusalem artichokes
Marc,
Contacted the curator and heard back the next day. Then asked for
info and trial seed mentioning that it was for the Phillipines but have not
heard back yet. Perhaps info is in transit. Have just sent them another
e-mail this morning to find out where things are at.
B.r., David
- Original Message -
From: F. Marc de Piolenc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Biofuel List
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:04 PM
Subject: [biofuel] more on Jerusalem artichokes
> Subject: Re: More on Jerusalem artichokes
> Steve Spence wrote:
>
> "my father in law just plowed under 2 acres of Jerusalem artichokes.
> they
> keep coming up and he can't get rid of them :-("
>
> The books do say that volunteer plants are a problem with all the
> sunflower family.
>
> Wish he could send the tubers over here - I can't find any starter
> stock!
>
> Marc de Piolenc
> Iligan, Philippines
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
You want the webpage as well? I see 4 high school students here got suspended for making a bomb that demolished an outdoor toilet block from a recipe and how to page they found on the web. The Timothy McVeighs of this world dont die so easy eh? B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > firemen, making alternative fuels. hmmm > > you guys like things that go bang as well? ;-) > > Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Specific gravity of Diesel
HI John, Did a search on the net and found it can be anywhere from .82 and .95 depending on source but .85 for calculations purposes tends to be the norm. Thanks for your help. B.r., David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Specific gravity of Diesel > David, > The Specific Gravity of petroleum distillate (diesel) falls between .84 & > .86 > John McLean > > - Original Message - > From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 3:12 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Specific gravity of Diesel > > > > Does anyone know the specific gravity of diesel and what 1 litre weighs? > > B.r., David > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil Filter Prices
Kirk, No it is in the form of sulfur compounds that agglutinate (clump together) as much as they can until they are trapped and held in the cellulose fibre (very tiny at this stage). Left to circulate as in a stardard engine they continue to agglutinate until they are large enough to be trapped by the surface full flow filter screen (25 microns and above). The trouble is the larger they are the more serve as a target and the more they attract water with the result that if not trapped and removed acid is much more quickly created and as a result damage is far quicker. If you have ever left your oil in for too long before doing an oil change and seen how the oil seems to be a lot more gooey than new oil you will know what I mean. This is because the carbon particles which are left to circulate combine together with the acid. B.r., David - Original Message - From: kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Oil Filter Prices > If you froze it would most of the sulphur drop out? > > Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Specific gravity of Diesel
Does anyone know the specific gravity of diesel and what 1 litre weighs? B.r., David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Invention bigger than PCs and the Internet
Keith, Back on Jan 11 you reported about Dean Kamen and a technology or device codenamed Ginger that was supposed to have a dramatic effect on the world and our lives when it was released in 2002. Anyone heard anymore? B.r., David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Swirl chamber diesel?
Thanks Steve, Have spent the last 2 hours researching including reading about Mercedes Benz common rail injection system to arrive at the same conclusion. Now a bit more informed. Thanks for your input. From this I surmise that DI engines are generally machined and made to finer tolerances and often have higher compression ratios. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Swirl chamber diesel? > All light-duty and many medium-duty diesel engines use indirect injection > (IDI), invented by Sir Harry Ricardo in his efforts to improve mixture > formation. With diesel IDI, fuel is injected into a pre-chamber in the > cylinder head instead of directly into the combustion chamber. Ignition > actually begins in the pre-chamber, improving mixture formation and reducing > ignition lag in the main chamber. A DI engine has no pre-chamber, and all > the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber in the piston top. > In most DI engine designs, there is less air turbulence in the combustion > chamber, so injection pressure must be very high for good mixture formation, > acceptable ignition lag and a complete burn. IDI engines are usually quieter > (after warm-up), produce less NOx and require a less complicated (meaning > less expensive) injection system. But DI engines can extract up to 20 > percent more power from each gram of fuel burned, so it's almost always used > in larger engines where fuel economy, high torque and long service life are > the main concerns. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rapeseed Oil Conversion
Found the following which may be of interest to some re Rapeseed oil and conversion to run tractors and other diesels. www.oilpress.com Shows conversion for car and John Deere tractor see: http://www.oilpress.com/rape-diesel1.htm B.r., David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on Jerusalem artichokes
At 20 gallons per ton and 1200 gallons per acre this equals 60 ton per acre and 20 ton per crop at 3 crops p.a. Certainly sound feasible if you can get 3 crops p.a. Marc in your case I certainly think it is worth investigating further. Here in NZ because of our latitude we certainly would only get 2 crops. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] More on Jerusalem artichokes > According to the Alcohol Yield tables in the Mother Earth Alcohol > Fuel Manual, Jerusalem artichokes yield 20 gallons of 99.5% ethanol > per ton, and 1,200 gallons per acre. Yield per acre is calculated on > three harvests of heads per year. Comparative yields are 889 gal/acre > for sugar in Hawaii, 555 gal/acre for sugar in Louisiana, and 79 > gal/acre for wheat (sugar and wheat yields USDA Ag. Stat. 1978). > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh3. > html#alcoholyield Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Swirl chamber diesel?
Attn: Steve, Dana, or others, Can someone please fully explain what a 1) Swirl chamber diesel, and 2) diesel with Precombustion chamber is/are and how they differ from a standard Direct injection diesel? A bit out of my depth with these two as I am only conversant with D.I. diesels. B.r., David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oil Filter Prices
Hi Tim, Thanks for your reply. Of all the prices sent to people you are only the second one who has the courtesy to reply. Sent you the S.I.P. pricelist that I had made up for our local market here which is in NZ$. Also sent you a separate quote for a single oil filter with the prices converted at the bottom into US$ at the approx current exchange rate of NZ$1 = 42cUS which you should have received. This quoted you the following prices: Oil filter complete*1 delivered to your address Tampa, Florida by Intl. Air = NZ$355-42 @ 42c = US$149-28 (4 to 10 working days) as above with Track & Trace, + Insurance add NZ$15-00 = NZ$370-42 @ 42c = US$155-58 Oil filter complete delivered to your address Tampa, Florida by Economy Air = NZ$343-95 @ 42c = US$144-46 (11 to 25 days) as above with Insurance but no Track & Trace add NZ$10-00 = NZ$353-95 @ 42c = US$148-66 Both cases are automatically insured to NZ$250-00 without additional insurance. In the second case I may have inadvertantly added $15 rather than $10 but as I went through the system and permanently deleted something like 900 to 1000 e-mails yesterday morning can no longer check. Unfortunately cant get the freight rate down lower than this as rate only comes down with increased weight being proportionally dearer at lower end and cheaper at higher end. Track and Trace is the same regardless of weight (up to max of 20kg) and additional insurance is same amount for anything over NZ$250 to $1500. If interested let me know. An answer either way is appreciated. At US$1-60 per USgal this = 42.27USc L which = approx NZ$1-00 per litre. At present we are paying approx NZ 76cents L so I can understand your frustration. (Note: $.97/gal = approx NZ 61 cents L ). Mind you we use cheap Indonesian crude with a sulfur content of over 3000 ppm which is penny wise and pound foolish in my opinion. In Europe they genarally dont use more than 350 ppm. As you will realise if you add sulfur compounds and water together you normally get sulphuric acid. This can quickly shorten your oil and engine life. This is where the by-pass filters excel in removal of these and where fitting these on just that basis alone is totally justifiable so maybe you Americans depending on source of your oil dont do too bad afterall. PS. All the Oil companies (as there is only 1 refinery) have just had to recall a batch which is not up to scratch all round the country. Again as a result of trying to do things on the cheap. *1: includes 9 piece installation kit, & 2 M reinf braid rubber hose. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Tim Zarbo To: David Reid Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 3:24 AM Subject: Re: Hi David, Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner--It's been SOOO unbelievably busy lately... I have a 99 dodge ram 1500--318 CI engine, auto transmission...Are the prices you quoted in NZ$? or US$? I'm thinking of getting rid of it--High payment, insurance and GASoline is just NUTS lately..over $1.60/gallon and rising. Last year we were paying about $.97/gal. Thanks, -Tim Z [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Next thing they will be using them in fertility clinics. Trouble is man being man it wouldnt take long to misuse them and they will probably be used to increase arousal. Have a nice day. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money > they are good for hemorrhoids as well, makes the shit slide through faster. > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] please unsubscribe me
nameless? Maybe not the only one Steve. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] please unsubscribe me > well, Keith isn't nameless, but he is overworked ;-) > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Marc, The solutions are there. It just depends on how much you want to spend. At the end of the day I would suggest that the best solutions applicable to the Phillipines and most other third world countries are some of the cheaper ones but always tied in with the word solid. The H frame solution is a good one and can be a relatively cheap one. At the end of the day I would forget timber and use steel though. Although it costs more and this is what you are trying to get round at the end of the day steel will outperform timber well and truly and provide the better solution. If you are mucking around with large containers with contents that in this case can weigh anthing from 10 to 20 tons and maybe 30 or higher you cant afford to make mistakes. Sure maybe the guy doing the job is some poor little Phillipino but I am sure his life is as important to him as mine is to me. I would also forget about the baulks of timber for foundations and lay decent concrete pads for the containers while in place and strong (thick) foundations for the H frame feet if you were to use this option. Such foundations are not hard to construct and in most cases you will only need a perimeter foundation for the container to sit on which I would strenghten at the corners. Temporary in most cases means exactly that. If you start right and build a decent foundation you generally have no problems and everything flows properly.You dont even need a dumpy (builders site level) to ensure everything is level. You can do this with 2 good men, a plastic hose, some pegs, 4 corner profiles, and a couple of markers. Having both a background as a Master Builder and a lot of engineering experience and expertise, and having spent over 7 years of my life working all around the world I am aware of just how many cowboys there are out there. With regard to trucks and trailers with integral side loading hydraulic lifts and support pads this is what I referred you to originally and was mentioned by an Australian member of the group yesterday or the day before. This is how it is done in this part of the world. They are called sidelifters and can normally lift anywhere from 20 to 30 tonne with the big ones being able to lift 36 tonne, and I think the latest ones something like 44 tonnes. They unload and load in about 5 minutes flat. The only problem is that they are expensive initially because of the large hydraulic rams and most of the time independent motor which controls the pump and hydraulic rams. It is possible you could build something similar in the Phillipines if you have access to a good engineering shop. At the time I said I could send you the information which I was getting from one of the suppliers here which has duly arrived. If you are interested I can send you the brochures which have good pictures and you can clearly visualize how the units work. If you are still interested send me your address by private e-mail and I will post the info to you. I personally think the H frame solution is the best one for you but until you explore all the options you will not know what I can see. Who knows maybe there is something better still. B.r., David - Original Message - From: F. Marc de Piolenc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Biofuel List Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:48 AM Subject: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading > Message: 1 > Thanks for the continuing input to the container load/unload solution. > It's really amazing how many ingenious ideas there are out there. > > For obvious reasons I favor solutions that don't require improvements at > each drop site - there could be very many of those in a country where > the longest distance that a coconut usually travels to market is a few > miles! > > Lowboy trailers won't last long on Filipino roads, so they're out. But I > am intrigued by one listmember's mentioning trucks or trailers with > integral side-loading hydraulic lifts and support pads. I went back to > my calcs that seemed to show that such things would be impractically > heavy...and of course found an error. It turns out that, with outriggers > extending eight feet to one side, such a truck could handle a 20 tonne > container while weighing no more than four to eight tonnes itself, > depending on weight distribution. With two axles on the semi-trailer and > two support axles on the tractor, that is completely practical. OOF. > > > What David T is saying here makes a lot of > > sense and is probably > > the most appropriate to the Phillipines. If you make > > a couple of H frames > > complete with outrigger tripod stays, use a couple > > of connectors to join the > > 2 H frames together, and a couple of chain blocks, > > you can drive to where > > you want the container located, set up your H > > frames, lift the container > > about 6", drive the truck out, and lower the > > container. Uplifting and > > shifting the container is obviously the reverse. > > That makes a LOT of sense. I would only add baulks of ti
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Marc, What David T is saying here makes a lot of sense and is probably the most appropriate to the Phillipines. If you make a couple of H frames complete with outrigger tripod stays, use a couple of connectors to join the 2 H frames together, and a couple of chain blocks, you can drive to where you want the container located, set up your H frames, lift the container about 6", drive the truck out, and lower the container. Uplifting and shifting the container is obviously the reverse. You could make the whole framework of steel which all linked together using lynch pins, which could be stored on top of the container for transport, and quickly erected once on site. With 3 or 4 people you could have it all unloaded in about 1/2 hr. Very easy and very simple. By breaking it down into components you could make it so 2 men could do the whole job by themselves if necessary. Lynch pins would make it very easy. My only advice is to make sure all welding is properly done as you dont want any accidents. Also use welded buttressing (bracing) for added strength and support where required. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Teal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant > John Brewer helpfully wrote: > "Self loading trailers are used extensivly in Australia. > > The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be adjusted to suit 20 & 40 > foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to correctly position the > weight distribution on the trailer" > > When I was working in rural Africa, such luxuries were unheard of, but we > managed to unload some fair sized loads with improvised, cheap but effective > means. One of the better systems was to erect two guyed goalpost frames > from stout wood poles. Chain block hoists were lashed to the middle of each > crossbar. The delivery truck would drive under the gantry, the load was > raised, and the truck would back out or drive through. The load could then > be lowered onto skids on the ground and be winched (Tirfor etc.) to its > desired location. > Of course, the goalpost gantry has to be proof loaded first with dummy loads > like plywood boxes filled with sand (easy to create and dismantle with hand > tools only). I reckon this approach is still appropriate to places like > Philippines, Marc. > > David Teal > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Hi Ron, Yeah I will stop if all you Americans promise to consume not more than the 5% you are entitled to. No seriously Ron I am sorry if you think what I am saying is personal and I am attacking all you Americans. It is not you Americans I am opposed to but your consumption of energy and lack of what seems a coherent policy for the future. At a time when America and the rest of the world is crying out for a leader with vision and solutions to the coming energy crisis if we continue down the same path America seems to have taken a retrograde step with reference to energy. I cant see anything inspiring in the new Energy Policy that has just been released. As I was saying the other day one of the things that existed under the Kennedy era was a certain dynamic approach to solving problems that seems to be missing in the Bush administration and other current crop of world leaders. (And before you accuse me of being a Democrat I am not, nor Republican either). The only thing fundamentally wrong with democracy and politics is politicians. Most of them from my observations tend to be tarred with the same brush). I think part of this came about because America under Kennedy made up its mind right or wrong it was going to the Moon and getting involved in other aspects of the Space Policy and went ahead and did them. As a result it was rather a challenging age. Rather than looking for and pumping more oil which is only going to bring the crisis nearer, and sitting on their hands the time to get up and run with new policies and incentives is right now. In the end there may be no crisis; time has a way of presenting solutions; but sure as the Sun is going to come up tomorrow (unless you live in Antartica at present) if you sit on your hands that crisis is going to arise. In the end I expect a lot of those solutions will come from the States. While I may not like your current energy policies I would be the first to admit that America has invested very heavy in its Universities and it is these that are more likely to provide solutions than anything else. The quickest way to do this is to offer Research Scholarships, something that is done already but something that should be greatly accelerated. You dont win a war by throwing in a few more men at the front but throwing in a large complete battalion quite often makes a difference. By the way I am not anti American and I'm also of Scots descent (one of my great ancestors set up Edinburgh University) so as one sheep shaggers descendent to another dont take me too personally. Its also not the 50 million 4 legged sheep I worry about, but the other 4 million (I share this country with), and the other 6 billion (I share this planet with), two legged sheep. The world seems to be full of sheep and pigs. Why the sheep have to be ruled by the pigs I dont know. Bah, I mean bye. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union > Hey, come on now, please stop the American bashing. We are all in this > together although I would say we (Americans) should be leading the world in > alternate fuel development. It's really hard for us little guys to fight the > big oil companies and the government. The govenment did send me an > application form for an alternate fuel plant(still)and it was only one form. > As a Scottish American the only suggestion I could give on the sheep > situation is to plug them with a catylitic converter> (Just kidding) I > really appreciate hearing views from other countries and I know a lot of > people don't like us "yanks" but for the most part we are like any other > bloaks around the world. > Best regards, > Ron Miller > - Original Message - > From: David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union > > > > Chuck, > >You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of > a > > country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided > into > > 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe > you > > should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have > > dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people > argueing > > and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve > > and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all > > these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe > its > > all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole > down > > here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it > there > >
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Kirk, What a brilliant idea. Anyone want a contract for fitting 50 million piezo-electic crystals to 50 million sheep? We cant have farmers doing it or they will all be off on compo claiming ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) payments as result of burnt wrists and hands. The govt will have to come to the party as if all the farmers go on strike the economy will come to a grinding halt. Mind you I suppose they could all get jobs in the cities and towns during the day and farm at night. Maybe thats the answer to the world energy and transportation problems: Flying jet sheep each with a passenger aboard. Any good cartoonists out there? B.r., David - Original Message - From: kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union > Forget catalytic converters. Think afterburners. > As you survey your paddock you can revel in a thousand points of light. > > Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Chuck, On further thoughts maybe the sheep idea is correct. Sheep didnt arrive in NZ until about 150 years ago and there definitely was no hole there or someone would have mentioned it. Perhaps we have got a lot of these lonely Scotsmen who obviously brought these animals as companions to blame. On second thoughts the number of sheep here has dropped from a high of 66 million or whatever it was in the early 70s to under 50 million today while the hole in the ozone has kept increasing so maybe these sheep arnt to blame after all. Without informed debate there is no problem as far as most people are concerned and no solutions can be arrived at or present themselves. At this stage to the outside world it appears America is not listening. You certainly cant have informed debate when the biggest and strongest participant pursues the path of might is right and I am going to do what I damn well want to do anyway. Yep Bush is the man for the job any day. His father proved that and a chip off the old block should do just as well. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union > This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union > This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels
What about the starving millions in the world who still do not get fed properly. Maybe with everyone switching over to fuel production this number will increase with some of those millions being in the countries of production. Oh well never mind rather than bread they can eat cake. In this case oil seed cake but whats the difference anyway? Hell they might even get a few additives as well. 370,000 million tons should only take up a few acres shouldnt it and maybe I dont need to worry. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels > Why does this not make a major political issue, seeing as how, with all the > farmers, especially the small farmers with otherwise uneconomical operations, > all need a new product, and this appears to be it. Raise grain, etc, to > convert to biofuels, even set up your own biofuels conversion unit, and > provide the energy we need that could, it appears, even replace petro > altogether. Ipsofacto: new products stabilizing a farm economy that > continually needs to be supported, minimized national security problems not > having to depend on the Arabs. Less air pollution. Emphasizing small scale > and appropriate technologies, etc etc. The only losers would be the big oil > companies, who, however, would somehow eventually take over with their > "economies of scale," etc. Am I dreaming or what? How do the Democrats > viiew this as an issue, or are they also bought off by the special interests. > Why hasn't this openly surfaced on the national agenda.If only as an > argument against "drill, drill, drill," and avoiding the ANWHR drilling -- a > biodiesel economy might even compete on a time frame basis, considering the > time required to build new refineries, build new pipelines, new drilling, > etc. Make available some well-developed, small plant, plans, with listing of > the materials required and some demonstrated results, and every farmer could > get in the business. Comments anyone What is wrong with this and why hasn't > it been surfaced on a national scale, unless there is some vast conspiracy > going on to keep everything in the hands of the status quo? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES
Thanks David, Based on those figures even though they are 5 years old there is obviously one heck of a long way to go. It may be that the easisest and best fields for vegetable oils is not engine oils but other lubricants such as greases etc which have a lot of fillers etc. These figures also makes you wonder why man is in such a hurry to waste such a resource. There is no way man even with the help of nature could ever create or supply 370,000 million tons. Anyone seeing this figure can quickly see how wasteful the oil and auto industries have been and continue to be. B.r., David It therefore seems > logical that vegetable > oil-based lubricants are perceived to have the greatest competitive > advantage in total loss > systems e.g. chain bar oils, two stroke marine engines, drilling muds, > agricultural greases and > possibly in applications where the risk of loss is high. e.g. certain > hydraulic systems. > In such cases their negative impact on the environment is much less than > that of mineral oil-based > lubricants. Although they are more expensive than mineral oil-based > lubricants, less is > needed per tonne of wood cut, so the cost is no greater. However, their > extensive use in these > contexts is likely to be dependent on specific environmental legislation (as > is the case in > Germany and Switzerland). Nevertheless, since April 1995 the UK's Forestry > Enterprise (a > division of the Forestry Commission) has adopted a policy of using > environmentally-friendly > lubricants to lubricate chainbars and chains, in both their motor manual > systems and automated > harvesters. The UK's Environment Agency is also keen to promote the use of > more > environmentally-friendly products. > At the 'Lubricants from oilseeds workshop' held in London on 9th May 1996, > Dr Harold of > Lubrizol International Laboratories stated that the estimated potential EU > market for > biodegradable lubricants was in the region of 370,000 million tonnes (10). > However, to date > only a fraction of the market (35,000 tonnes) is actually derived from > vegetable oils (see also > Table 1.4). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Alcohol as an antifreeze?
I thought this was for the driver. Certainly keeps the chill out in those old cars. No seriously have heard and read that it has been used as an antifreeze. With a much lower F.P. no reason it shouldnt be used but at the same time just remember it also has a much lower B.P. depending on the alcohol (ethanol for instance has a B.P. of 78.4 C) so you would need to use one of the higher alcohols (at least isopropyl or higher). Have never really looked into glycol but isnt this closely related to alcohol through the petroleum chain? B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:53 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Alcohol as an antifreeze? > Fishmann, Keith, et all > > Lower freezing point, yes, but also lower boiling point and heat of > vaporization. Maybe better than water in the winter but probably worse > as an actual engine coolant. I'm a little out of my expertease here > though so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. > > -andrew > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Greetings to everyone: > > > It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, > people > > >used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, > (I swear I > > >read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever > heard of > > >this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the > same way > > >as making fuel for their automobile? > > > Thanks for the input and guidance, > > > Fischmann > > > > I'm sure you're right, rings bells - it does have a low freezing > > point. You might have to use quite a lot though to get the overall > > freezing point down low enough. Also glycerine's been suggested as > an > > anti-freeze. But I guess it has to be purified first. > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Hi Steve, Tends to support my sceptical attitude if such is the case. What about high powered Microwave Transmission Towers used by the telecommunications industry as I know there is widespread debate on that one? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? > the cancer/power line myth was put to rest. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking!
Thats what you call going down in flames isnt it Steve? It certainly burns with a vengeance. Friend of mine was demonstrating some magnesium welding rod to a couple of friends just the other day when one of them asked about this whereupon he tried to show them how well it burns by applying a match to the rod. I commented he would probably burn his fingers whereupon he switched to the gas torch and in about 7 or 8 seconds it burst into flame spattering all over the floor. I believe today its always mixed with aluminium or has aluminium impurities for a startoff. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:29 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking! > I remember video's of a magnesium fighter plane being pushed over the > side of a carrier, because they couldn't put the fire out. As a > firefighter, I'd not want to respond to this kind of car fire. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line.
David, On this arguement would depend where the hydrocarbon chain was being broken ie at what link wether carbon, hydrogen, or oxygen. Shorter chain lengths should certainly provide better and fuller combustion I would have thought. I thought higher octane had more oxygen atoms ??? Anyone with an explantion? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Crabb, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line. > theory as to why magnets work: > > > long hydrocarbon chains > > are being broken down to shorter chains > > > umm.. correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the fuel's high octane specifically > *because* the > chains are longer? hence they will not burn so quickly? > > now if the magnet is breaking this down.. wouldn't that be "poopifying" your > grade of gas that you put in your tank? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Yes it did. Castrol R is made from a Castor Oil base. In the States and possibly elsewhere they now have an oil called Synflex which is continually compared to Mobil 1, is reportedly better, though I cant comment, but dont know its composition. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Crabb, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > > > > > > Message: 1 > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:32:14 +0100 > >From: "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: What about making engine oil? > > > > CASTROL R > > > > > > > > http://www.castrol.com/products/cars_castrolr.html > > makes you wonder whether this company got its name from Castoroil...-> > Castroil... > Castrol Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing
Hi Dave, I suspect a lot of what you are saying below is probably true but dont know what the answers are. I believe vegetable oils just like mineral oils need additives to achieve extended life and minimal wear and tear. At least all the evidence and research points that way. The options seem to be using large amounts of oil with minimum additives and a short life, or a much smaller amount of oil with high additive levels and a much longer life. Either way the result seems to be the same. In the end we rely on good old Mother Nature to eventually break the results down or disperse them with more entering the food chain all the time. The rise of the motor car may well be the demise of man for all we know. Perhaps thats a good thing because the real disease on this planet seems to be man rather than foot and mouth, ebola, and all those other things. Perhaps it is just as well that oil will run out in 70 years (half that by my estimate). The sooner we get some of these other technologies on line the better. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Preskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing > List, > > Engine oil already done. See http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm > Problem is it needs loadsa additives. Theirs is based on rape (canola) last > I heard coz its got a high (60%) oleic acid content, good in boundary > lubrication, thermal stability, etc. but its a start and I think their > philosophy is bang on course. Patent issued 1997- ish. > > Additives are very nasty and its all kept very quiet by the additive > companies (Lubrizol, Henkel) although I enjoy treading on their toes. > Mineral oil is useless without additives and I've heard it said if these > companies stop production, the oil companies fall. > > Its something I've been researching for about ten years now and which is why > I'm passionate about veg oils replacing mineral, whether for bio-diesel or > lubricants. Most lube oils and fuels contain scary compounds - chemists out > there should recognise dithiocarbamates, most of us have heard of > organo-phosphates. Well theres also organo-chlorine, organo-sulphur (smell > gear oil - hypoid EP90 - thats the sulphur). Heard about the fumes in > aircraft cabins and pilots passing out? - see muchos debatoes in UK > Parliament on tricresyl phosphate used in hydraulic oils (no action though). > Check it out and don't fly again. > > Of course there's no relationship between these compounds and nerve gases! > That would mean they've been lying to us. These companies are f*g up the > world for us all. > > Check out the list below, get some MSDS on these compounds (and don't ever > get mineral oil lubricants on your hands again). Note it is groups of > compounds, no specifics. Ring Lubrizol for a laugh and ask them what they > are. > > Dispersants (metallic): > Salicylate ester salts, sulfonates, phophonates, thiophosphonates, phenates, > phenol sulphide, alkyl substituted salicyclates. > > Dispersants (ashless): > Methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, > amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid > coplymers, amine salts of high molecular weight organic acids, N-sustituted > long-chain alkenyl succiminides. > > Oxidation and bearing corrosion inhibitors: > Organic phosphites, metal dithiocarbamates (ouch!!), sulfufrised olefins, > zinc dithiophosphate, phenolic compounds, selenides, amines, > phospho-sulphurised terpenes. > > Anti-wear additives: > Organic phosphites, sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, alkaline > derivitaves. > > Viscocity index improves: > Polyisobutenes, polymethacrylates, polyacrylates, methacrylate copolymers > and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides, > hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers. > > Pour point depressants (remember these before you winterise your bio-d): > Alkylated wax, napthalenes, polymethacrylates (0.05% in bio-d), alkylated > wax phenols. > > Most are in engine oil for example up to 10% treatment rate, even more in > critical systems such as aircraft. > > This makes me mad (well mad-dog f*&%$}g mad actually). Unsustainable, > unrenewable crap/bulls**t and lies. > Ask for an MSDS from these boys - none comes. Commercial confidentiality. > Bastards! > > Solutions, well Ed B pointed out a good one. There is a patent, held by > Fuchs Petroleum in Germany (1997 priority date 30.10.97 reference: > DE19747854A1), of a car diesel engine using veg oil as a crankcase lube then > burning as a fuel. Problem is its held in a separate tank and proportionally > mixed with fuel from the main tank. What else is in the tank? Yup, > additives. Thats all they think of these oil companies. The technique isn't > new, trucks pull off engine oil as they go along and replace it with fresh, > the old being used as fuel. What Fuchs do is to draw off
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Warren, Sam, et al, I am still very sceptical, have done very little reading on the subject, and remain a doubting Thomas but it dosnt mean you shouldnt try as despite all claims to the contrary magnetic force fields are not well understood. I am well aware that people who live under or in close proximity to high tension power transmission lines reportedly suffer from a higher incidence of cancer. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? > Sam said: > > I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other > >than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific > >properties thereof. > > Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant > cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general > advancement. > > >You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm > > > >as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, > >but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. > > Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic > polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth > experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the > results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. > -- > ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
David et al, Maybe for them to work the car has to be travelling in a S to N line or vice versa. I am sorry but the more I hear of this the more I am sceptical. That doesnt make me right just sceptical. It is perhaps good that we have people who are prepared to try this and find out. I personally prefer to accept things that are backed up and supported by known scientific support and research (ie scientific knowledge). This is why I know by-pass filters work but would place this in the realm of hope. Still dont let me stop anyone who wants to try. Perhaps with more positive results you will get me interested and even I may perhaps try them. B,r., David - Original Message - From: David Sanz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / Hello Warren, The orientation (today) is south in fuel lines and north in the air intake. But some time ago, on initial tests, I've reversed poles. My question is: If dyno (and also bio) diesel are'nt magnetic particles or magnetic propierties, how affects a magnet the fuel? Is able with a magnet to dissociate or catalyze some in fuel? Skeptic... Regards David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What about making engine oil?
To give people an idea of what is required to make a reasonable engine oil please find attached the below ready reference B,r,. David Ready Reference for Lubricants and Fuels Lubricant Additives Very little unadditized mineral oil is sold as a lubricant. Almost all commercial lubricants contain additives to enhance their performance in amounts ranging from less than 1% to 25% or more. By far the largest market for such additives is in the transportation field, including additives for engines and drivetrains in cars, trucks, buses, locomotives and ships. The function of additives can be summarized as: a.. Protect metal surfaces (rings, bearings, gears, etc.) b.. Extend the range of lubricant applicability c.. Extend lubricant life The same general range of additive types find application in other fields; for example, industrial lubricants, along with materials designed to impart specific properties such as: a.. Emulsifiers b.. Demulsifiers c.. Tackiness agents d.. Bactericides e.. Gelling agents (for greases) To be acceptable to blenders and end users alike, additives must be capable of being handled in conventional blending equipment, stable in storage, free of offensive odor, and nontoxic by normal industrial standards. Because many are highly viscous materials or actual solids, they are generally sold as concentrated solutions in diluent oil (HVI 100 Neutral or similar). Surface Protective Additives - Automotive Lubricants Additive Type Purpose Typical Compounds Functions Antiwear and EP Agent Reduce friction and wear and prevent scoring and seizure Zinc dithiophosphates, organic phosphates, acid phosphates, organic sulfur and chlorine compounds, sulfurized fats, sulfides and disulfides Chemical reaction with metal surface to form a film with lower shear strength than the metal, thereby preventing metal-to-metal contact Corrosion and Rust Inhibitor Prevent corrosion and rusting of metal parts in contact with the lubricant Zinc dithiophosphates, metal phenolates, basic metal sulfonates, fatty acids and amines Preferential adsorption of polar constituent on metal surface to provide protective film, or neutralize corrosive acids Detergent Keep surfaces free of deposits Metallo-organic compounds of sodium, calcium and magnesium phenolates, phosphonates and sulfonates Chemical reaction with sludge and varnish precursors to neutralize them and keep them soluble Dispersant Keep insoluble contaminants dispersed in the lubricant Alkylsuccinimides, alkylsuccinic esters, and mannich reaction products Contaminants are bonded by polar attraction to dispersant molecules, prevented from agglomerating and kept in suspension due to solubility of dispersant Friction Modifier Alter coefficient of friction Organic fatty acids and amides, lard oil, high molecular weight organic phosphorus and phosphoric acid esters Preferential adsorption of surface-active materials Performance Additives - Automotive Lubricants Additive Type Purpose Typical Compounds Functions Pour Point Depressant Enable lubricant to flow at low temperatures Alkylated naphthalene and phenolic polymers, polymethacrylates, maleate/fumerate copolymer esters Modify wax crystal formation to reduce interlocking Seal Swell Agent Swell elastomeric seals Organic phosphates and aromatic hydrocarbons Chemical reaction with elastomer to cause slight swell Viscosity Modifier Reduce the rate of viscosity change with temperature Polymers and copolymers of olefins, methacrylates, dienes or alkylated styrenes Polymers expand with increasing temperature to counteract oil thinning Protective Additives - Automotive Lubricants Additive Type Purpose Typical Compounds Functions Antifoamant Prevent lubricant from forming a persistent foam Silicone polymers, organic copolymers Reduces surface tension to speed collapse of foam Antioxidant Retard oxidative decomposition Zinc dithiophosphates, hindered phenols, aromatic amines, sulfurized phenols Decompose peroxides and terminate free-radical reactions Metal Deactivator Reduce catalytic effect of metals on oxidation rate Organic complexes containing nitrogen or sulfur, amines, sulfides and phosphites Form inactive film on metal surfaces by complexing with metallic ions [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Gerry, You would probably do far better to contact one of the oil additive manufacturers, tell them what you wanted to do, supply them with a samples/s of your base vegetable oil, and ask them for the information and the appropriate additive package to make a specific engine oil. Throwing in an "oil treatment" such as STP, Wynns, or whatever, would certainly give you a superior oil to one without any additives but it certainly wouldnt be that much superior. As Ed has just said hiring a tribology specialist would be a vast improvement. The problem then is knowing when to stop. Over the years there are not that many of these additive manufacturers like Super Slick 50, Motor Up, etc who have not been pulled over the coals for false advertising because under properly conducted tests by various governing bodies their claims do not stack up. You are generally better to go to one of the specialist oil additive manufacturers and get them to formulate the necessary additive package which is specifically designed for the base oil and to do a particular job than just throw in a can of oil treatment where sometimes some of the additive ingredients may not be too compatible with the base stock you are adding it too. At last count there were something like 49 major specialist companies in this field. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > > Mix in a can of "oil treatment" on every filter roll change with the > Mil-Mac. > The additives will take cares of wear on the engine. > Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Yes Ed agreed, doing it this way you will certainly get a far better oil than if you read a few books yourself and then tried to make it, but on top of this you will then need to pay for analysis, set up a lab, buy expensive equipment, etc. etc. to the extent that it becomes a prohibitive exercise. I am not saying that you should not do this but one needs to understand what is required before one sets out and be reasonably commited to that path for the long haul otherwise one is likely to waste a fair amount of time and a reasonable amount of money. B.r., David - Original Message - From: NBT - E. Beggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > High oleic base stock is a start...then hire the tribology specialist. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
Sam, I sometimes think this is why some of these things work. Because people want them to work they work. The easiest way to obtain high mpg is to keep your foot off the gas pedal. This works everytime in my experience. For trials to be comparable all the variables have to remain constant and when you come to motor vehicles they invariably are not. Forgive me if I am cynical but unless you can totally convince me that long hydrocarbon chains are being broken down to shorter chains and better vaporisation is occurring as a result of the magnetic field I remain totally sceptical. I admit I have done very little research on this aspect. Years ago I spent 5 months travelling the length and breadth of India seeing quite a lot of things I could not understand. As I have grown older I have learnt or understand how most of them were done. There are a number of things I still cant explain but because I cant explain them dosnt make them magic. Ninety nine % of the time there is a logical explantion. Forgive me if I am still critical. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC hard drives, and I get a steady mileage increase of 4-5 mpg. I firmly believe in them myself. Not everyone who has tried them gets good results right off the bat. The trick is to move them around until you find a sweet spot and keep them there. Do not just slap them on, find you get no gain and say that they will not work. Sometimes it takes a few tries at postitioning to get it right. Work with it some before you give up on them. Also, they are only effective on rubber lines as far as the research that I'm privy to goes. No effect on steel lines whatsoever. Someone I know is experimenting on an electromagnetic field on gas lines further enhancing the desired effect. Tin and tin alloys are also great to experiment with as a catalyser for breaking down the long chain hydrocarbons which is what you are trying to do with the magnetic fields. If you want ultra high mileage gains, then there is no substitute for TCC or Thermal Catalytic Cracking of the fuel (as long as your dealing with hydrocarbons that is). This is basically the same procedure used to create our fossil based fuels from crude oils. Fact is, there are some really nasty low end products even in the best gasoline that prevent catalysts from working well before combustion where it can do you the most good as far as efficiency and mileage is concerned. In gasoline there is 10% of the so-called "additives" which are not additives at all but stuff that is not taken OUT of the process and that is what kills mileage. Remember, the worlds record for specialty marathon high mileage vehicles is well over 9,000 mpg. Why is it that every time that the EPA raises the level of ratings for mpg, the car companies are so quick to comply? Why didn't they produce them sooner? They are not years away from getting the product in question to the market. Makes you wonder, eh? It happens as soon as the upper limits are raised. Is this a trade off? The EPA says, OK you are making a SUV that gets only 12-15 mpg, so now you have to produce a vehicle that gets 50-60-70? Maybe I'm wrong, I have been once, :-) but the conspiracy theories about high mileage abound in the circles that I'm in. I'm in the process of being hacked, possibly to find out what I know about all this and I'm being mail bombed on a daily basis as a harrassment ploy. I'm not paranoid at all. I just know what's out there and what's being done to curtail these new/old technologies. Vested intrests regarding these matters are VERY powerfull. MooNShiNeR Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Thanks Steve, Had a good laugh. Sometimes when I see something like this I cant believe that people would be so gullible and am really glad I come from a small place like NZ where the majority of people are basically honest and even the evil ones among us preying on the gullibility of the innocents dont get up to too much harm or mischief. I think the advantage of a small community is you dont get sucked in by the hype surrounding certain things and people generated by large numbers.. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money > DISCLAIMER > > This URL is provided for amusement purposes only. Do not take this as a > recommendation. > > http://www.inter-con.on.ca/triclean.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Jeremy, I personally dont think it will work. I am aware that magnets fitted to a non ferrous water line will work to some degree in preventing calcine and other build up in the line though to what degree I dont know. Even this could be hogwash and there could be other reasons for it. I am personally totally sceptical of them working with gasoline and certainly cant see anything like the gas mileage % improvements claimed even is they did work to some degree. This was the reason for my light hearted rather cynical comments yesterday. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Jeremy Shuey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money > I don't know for sure if it will or not. I just said > I may try it to see what would happen. ;-) > > Jeremy > --- David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jeremy, > > I can see the magnets might work on > > water for the reasons you > > asscribe but why should they work with gasoline.and > > why should you get > > increased mileage? > > B.r., David > > > > > > I do know that the magnets work on the water. We > > have > > > extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with > > the > > > limestone and all, and the magnets actually make > > the > > > water a whole lot more soft. The idea behind the > > > magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules > > in > > > the fluid, or water in my case. I have had them > > on > > > for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't > > clogged > > > or had any other problems associated with any idea > > of > > > problems with the magnets. H I think i may > > try to > > > put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my > > fuel > > > mileage. NE Ways.. let ya know what happens. > > > > > > Jeremy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Not a very scientific experiment if you ask me Steve although it might give you some idea on how long oil made by a rank amateur would last. As I have stated before several times oil is made from 2 things, namely the oil base stock and the additive package. Both of these are important and it is the quality of both these that determine the quality of the final oil produced, how long it lasts, and how effective it is. Without a decent additive package the oil will not last and the results produced are more a comment on the standard of engineering rather than the quality of the oil. While the by-pass oil filter would undoubtedly extend the life of the engine the results produced would be somewhat spurious and debateable as we dont know the condition of the engine initially. I believe people would benefit a lot more by learning a lot more about oil instead. While there are a lot of sites justifying additives which mostly dont work there are some good sites on the web that people can learn from. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in the > crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll add > one of your filters, Dave. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bypass filters
Hi Gary, Yes as you will have seen from my posts they are still around and like most by-pass filters they really work. This can be quickly ascertained by laboratory Fluids Analysis. In the past, say 35 or 40 years ago, their usefulness and reliability may have been questionable but today with supporting data from analytical labs readily available their reliability and the fact that they actually work is unquestionable. Today with an ever dwindling amount of oil available and increasing pollution worldwide their implementation and use on every vehicle should be paramount. Rather than digging our heads in the sand and saying yes we are building better quality oils today than we have ever done in the past which is true everybody should be looking ahead and minimising oil useage and wasteage through the implementation of these devices as well rather than maximising oil consumption which is increasing all the time due to increasing numbers of vehicles on the road.. Failure to do so is nothing short of complicity with the large oil companies who have exploited and wasted the worlds resources for the last 100 years. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Dr. Gary Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bypass filters > Years ago I used Frantz bypass filters on several cars and never changed the > dino oil. Every 1000 to 1500 miles > I changed the toilet paper filter and added a quart of oil. The oil always > looked like it just came out of the can. > No objective data as to added longetivity of engines as the cars we sold off > before engine problems might have surfaced. > However, it makes sense that haveing no visible crud in the oil is goodness. > > At some point, Frantz seemed to disappear and I assumed they were out of > business. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Fischmann, Yes you could make your own oils, particularly vegetable based oils BUT and I emphasize BUT you need a lot of knowledge and expertise. (In short you really need to be a chemist and specialise in oils). A lot of the modern synthetics are vegetable based oils with fully synthetics having a large % of vegetable oil base. Oils as such are made fom 2 main things, namely the oil base stock and the additive package. It is the quality of both these things that determine the quality of the finished products. Quality manufacture is beyond the range and ability of the amateur. That is not to say it cant be done in the longrun but without a lot of dedication, attention to detail, and massive investment you are never likely to get there. I somehow think at that point you have well and truly left the rank of amateur behind. B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:34 AM Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? > Greetings: >Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the same > manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about special > filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils? > It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the > early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of their > cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with their > own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm tractor > engine, etc.). >I would love to hear any input you all might have. >Thanks - Fischmann Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: filter
Hi David, Each filter is designed to filter a certain volume of oil and sizes are determined by engine capacity and horsepower. Single filters use 1 filter roll, doubles use 2, and trebles use 3. The filter roll is contained and restrained in a can, which slides onto a shaft pipe, sealed top and bottom with a nitrile rubber seal, with each can being separated from one another by something like 5/8'. The only way out for the oil is through the filter, back up through a central shaft complete with top flange (boss) that is fitted into the core to the top of each filter roll height and then out through the shaft pipe. Each filter roll filters a certain volume of oil independently thus maximising the volume of oil that each filter can handle unlike what would happen if each filter roll was stacked on top of one another and all the oil had to go from one end to the other ( possibly what you have visualised and the reason for your question). Hope this explains it. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Crabb, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:32 AM Subject: [biofuel] RE: filter > why do you need 2 or 3 filters if one filter blocks anything > 1 micron? > > == > > SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER > Save 10% on what is already the best filter at the best price. > Normally 1/5th to 2/5th the price of other competitors > Definitely less than 1/2 the price of our cheapest competitor even > before discount. > > For a limited time we are offering MIL-MAC 4M By-pass Filters at > the following prices :BE QUICK. This is a limited offer. > > SINGLE unit SAVE approx $35-00 > Filternormally $210-00 retail PAY $189-00 >Oil Installation Kit 75-00 "PAY 67-50 >2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 "PAY 22-50 > G.S.T.38-75 PAY 34-88 > TOTAL $348-75 PAY $ 313-88 > > DOUBLE unitSAVE approx $47-00 > Filternormally $320-00 retail PAY $288-00 > Oil Installation Kit 75-00 "PAY 67-50 > 2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 "PAY 22-50 > G.S.T. 52-50PAY47-25 > TOTAL$472-50PAY $425-25 > > TREBLE unit SAVE approx $53-00 > Filternormally $375-00 retail PAY $337-50 > Oil Installation Kit75-00 " PAY 67-50 > 2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 " PAY 22-50 > G.S.T. 59-38 PAY 53-44 > TOTAL$534-38 PAY$480-94 > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
Hi Paul, > David, > Thanks for the info, and for being so frank. You don't seem to have much > faith in my old Toyota. ** I dont think I would say that. In my opinion Toyota are probably the best of the large Japanese manufacturers. Their diesels particularly are some of the best of the small diesels. A lot of their 2.4 and 2.8 litre diesel swb and lwb vans being used by couriers and others here clocking up high mileages have easily exceeded 1,000,000 km giving few problems when regularly maintained. Most of the time when these sort of vehicles give problems is when they have not been maintained properly or serviced by staff that are incompetant. If you look back over a vehicles history that all of a sudden gives problems you will invariably find a period when the vehicle was not maintained properly or at all. > The smoke it blows is black not blue and very little oil is used between > changes,not enough to justify adding oil. ** Regardless of what manufacturers or owners claim virtually all vehicles use some oil. It may vary from very little where there is virtually no wear to a reasonable amount where there is a reasonable amount of wear particularly where the vehicle is an older vehicle. Oil useage is invariably related to speed, the higher the speed the higher the consumption. You may be in luck and the vehicle may last some considerable time yet. Black smoke is almost always unburnt or incomplete combustion due to injector timing or over supply of diesel. If you are using very little oil then this tends to suggest that the rings are in better condition than you imagine. Excessive smoke is more likely to be an injector problem than anything else if you are not using oil. > It has always been a smokey engine despite attention to injectors etc. The > ammount of smoke varies with engine load. Keeping the revs between 2,500 > and 4,000 and using a small "throttle opening" minumises it. Adjusting the > smoke screw only reduces the already inadequate performance. ** Tends to suggest an injector problem and adjustment rather than something else. After 350,000 > km the rings are most probably worn as indicated by the vehicles tendency to > creep forwards when parked on a slope and restrained only by engine braking, > low-range first. ** Yes does tend to suggest ring wear. > The following may sound like an add but should be familiar. > The Hilux is the most reliable,economical ,practicle vehicle I have ever > owned. (Lets not mention lack of comfort or character). Running costs so far > (fuel, oil,grease,servicing,parts, repairs,tyres,registration,insurance etc) > 11.9c/km. Fuel consumption 10L/100km. Last set of front tyres lasted > 81,000km,rears still going. Brakes relined 259,000 and 440,000. > Exhaust system replaced 259,000 and currently in good condition. > Clutch,gearbox,transfere case, front & rear diffs all origional. Used > daily, often carries load, current odometer reading 540,000km. End of ad. > and no I wouldn't sell it for quids. > Lets consider the operation of 4 stroke diesel engines. > unlike their petrol equivalent, diesels have no variable restriction in the > inlet tract (butterfly in carb or air inlet for fuel injection). Oil burning > in the petrol 4 stroke is usually associated with worn rings/bore or > faulty/worn valve guides or valve stem seals. It is most obvious when the > air pressure inside the cylinder is substantially less than that in the > sump. Such conditions occur when the throttle is suddenly closed at high rpm > or after prolonged idling. The diesel takes a full gulp of air at each > intake stroke regardless of "throttle setting" so the difference in pressure > between cylinder and sump at induction is not so great especially with > positive crankcase ventilation. > The increased pressure and temperature of the diesel engine combustion would > probably burn the lubricating oil more effectively producing black smoke > from an enriched mixture. > Ring blowby also feeds oil fumes to the intake. The original engine in the > Hilux was treated to some spray start (ether) by an unsympathetic unknowing > moron ( me) when it refused to start one winter. (Glow plugs coated with > soot don't warm the preignition chambers too well). End result broken > rings. ** If you have replaced the rings it dosnt suprise me that the vehicle smokes. What were the rings you used in replacement? Where they genuine Toyota rings? Even these are extremely hard to get exactly right because of a certain amount of wear already in the engine. Replacement with anything other than genuine Toyota rings always seems to give trouble. You would probably find if you pulled the emgine down and measured everthing up that invariably there is more wear in one or two cylinders compared to the others. Also very true of end gap clearance. This is where fitting a by-pass filter can help as rather than letting wear continue because of certain factors being out of balance they can help in letting things slowly
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Hey it works, Have just fitted magnets to my radiator hoses and just started the car and already it is running cooler. Must be the alignment of the molecules allows the water to run through the engine and radiator faster achieving better cooling. Warren, you did say increased mileage, not increased fuel consumption and more power, didnt you? B.r., David > I do know that the magnets work on the water. We have > extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with the > limestone and all, and the magnets actually make the > water a whole lot more soft. The idea behind the > magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules in > the fluid, or water in my case. I have had them on > for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't clogged > or had any other problems associated with any idea of > problems with the magnets. H I think i may try to > put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my fuel > mileage. NE Ways.. let ya know what happens. > > Jeremy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Warren, I am sure if you had strong enough magnets and you could get close enough to the vehicle in front of you your gas mileage might jump tremendously. Believe they would have to be elecro magnets though in case the vehicle in front suddenly went the wrong way. Some film producer could probably do a good Laurel and Hardy skit (or did I say skid) on this. B.r., David > Ha! Hi Steve! ;-) > Well... so have you actually tried it, as described in the article? I > have viewed this in the same way you just expressed. But, James DeMeo > is a pretty sharp fellow. He says it actually works for him. Jeremy > just replied that it has worked for him for several years on his > water lines. I sure don't have all the right answers, and life has > brought many a surprise. Tell you what, let's both try it. Maybe we > learn something new and useful in spite of our 'knowledge'. > -- > ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Jeremy, I can see the magnets might work on water for the reasons you asscribe but why should they work with gasoline.and why should you get increased mileage? B.r., David > > I do know that the magnets work on the water. We have > extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with the > limestone and all, and the magnets actually make the > water a whole lot more soft. The idea behind the > magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules in > the fluid, or water in my case. I have had them on > for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't clogged > or had any other problems associated with any idea of > problems with the magnets. H I think i may try to > put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my fuel > mileage. NE Ways.. let ya know what happens. > > Jeremy > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Steve, What is a ceramic laundry disks and where can I buy one. Anything that will do my washing for me sounds like a good idea. No seriously have never heard of these and they may be good for a laugh. Out of curiosity would like to know a bit more. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money > Um, uh, guys? what have you all been smoking? magnets on gas lines (and > water lines) is right up there with ceramic laundry disks. really > > Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Hi Derek, > I thought that I would write back on the sideband, but if you think all or > part of your reply is appropriate for the entire group, that is okay with > me. Previously I have read about bypass filters in conjunction with Amsoil > synthetic oil and their bypass system. I am curious as to how you feel your > filters compare to the Amsoil bypass filters. Certainly yours appear to be > considerably cheaper. ** Cant comment fully about the Amsoil by-pass filter as I have not seen or used one but if their filter is as good as their oils then it should be a darn good one as they make some of the best synthetics available, just naturally dearer thats all. They were the first to bring out synthetic oils and have kicked the major oil companies butts since.Being a spin on filter the cost of each filter replacement will be at least 15 times greater and possibly as much as 25 times greater than the MIL-MAC replacement. The MIL-MAC is equal to any filter on the market and in most cases superior. At this point I think you need to decide wether you want the convienience of a spin on filter and are prepared to pay for it, or if you are prepared to suffer a little inconvienience for approx 10 minutes at filter change time. The MIL-MAC will certainly do as good as any filter on the market. If you are being told otherwise and believe this you are certainly listening to too much advertising hype. As I see it a spin on filter is a lady drivers filter and a MIL-MAC filter is a mans filter. A MIL-MAC can give you performance equal to any, save you money, minimise engine wear and tear, and substantially reduce your operating costs. Each have their roll and it is up to you to decide what you want. You are right. Mine are considerably cheaper although they are made in Australia. When the manufacturer came to see me I was impressed by the idea and the simplicity and interested in pushing them as my contribution to a better cleaner world. This I am endeavouring to do. My markup at full price is approx $50- for a single filter (a little more at current exchange rates as it has moved in our favour in the last 3 or 4 weeks but down again today) and more on the double and treble . At the Special Introductory Price dicount brings my theoretical profit back to about half that. I dont know how long I can maintain this but at about US$12 profit per unit not too long I imagine as I am going to go bust if I persist for too long. Personally I would probably be better off getting a job. It is possible you would get them out of Australia cheaper but I seriously doubt it. If such was the case they would need to sell to you at wholesale and despite the amount of money and time I have spent doing the research and setting this up I would drop them like a hot cake. Cost aside, as an example, if the mileage between oil changes can be doubled per vehicle, and that multiplied by the millions of vehicles on the road, what a huge difference in the quantity of oil saved, and the decrease in the old oil polluting the environment. I'm all in favor of these things being put on cars. ** I am glad you seem to think like me on this. Fitting something like this to every vehicle in cities like L.A., New York, Tokyo, Bangkok, London, or any large modern city and particularly those suffering from pollution could help tremendously as well as being a contribution by the motorist who causes the pollution in the first place. I should perhaps say second as it is largely a problem caused by car design in the first place. Just think what a marketing tool it would be if one car manufacture would just seize on the idea and put every vehicle out with a by-pass filter fitted as standard.especially if they already had an energy conscious policy and image. Volvo for instance who are doing themselves a lot of harm in this forum by attacking biodiesel could reverse this overnight by adopting such a policy and the sheer beauty of such a scheme is that it could be done on the factory floor at minimum cost rather than as an expensive retrofit. While it may put me out of business before I really start nothing would make me happier. I think the F-350's engine is around 200 hp, but I am not sure. You see, my truck is in New Jersey, USA, while I am sitting at my desk in Saudi Arabia. These days I only get to use it on holiday and my parents put a fair number of miles on it in my absence. I also have a 1980 Volvo Diesel which was made with a 6 cylinder VW truck engine. I'm not sure of the horsepower or of the displacement on that engine. **It is hard to quote you without knowing a few more details but I suspect you would be best to fit a treble oil filter and a double fuel filter to the F-350 if this is a 6.5 litre engine ( you may be able to get away with a double oil and single fuel but this would be pushing it.) and a double oil filter and single fuel filter to the 1980 Volvo Diesel. Do you know the sump oil capacity and fuel consumption per hour of the F-350, and can
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
Hi Paul, - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL > David, > re > >Oil does not wear out, it justs becomes > > contaminated. If you are removing the contaminants just as fast as they > are created your oil will last almost indefinitely. ** Entirely true. > Was led to believe that oil is subject to two kinds of contamination, > particulate and chemical. > The bypass filter sounds like it will take care of the particulate > contamination. > Testing the oil should give an indication of the degree of chemical > contamination. > (fuel into oil,breakdown of oil additives etc) ** Again true. This is why you must use either P.O.A. or laboratory Fluids Analysis when going past the 5,000 or 10,000 km mark. P.O.A. will tell you with a degree of accuracy over 90% (generally 95 to 96% +) what the state of your oil is like and degree or % of contamination. To some degree this depends on the calibration of the unit and experience of the operator. That is why we only quote over 90%. (Please remember that accurate laboratory Fluids Analysis will give you results in ppm.). It (p.o.a.) is a 30 second test and by leaving a wide safety margin and testing regularly you can insure your oil is up to scratch, does not have major acid build up, and will still perform as per the manufacturers standards which are based on SAE, API, or other Intl standards and specifications. Accurate laboratory Fluids Analysis is the only way to get 100% reliable results and when used properly with a decent P.P.M scheme can establish a reliable wear pattern and using Trend Analysis can establish extremely reliable results. The difference is the cost and time period involved. Fluids Analysis gives you a breakdown in ppm for various metals and elements depending on the tests involved and upon analysis can give you reliable results which can be used for the timely replacement of various components and parts before they become major problems and cause excessive downtime. Many knowledgeable and experienced freight companies are now using this for greater reliability and to achieve much lower operating costs. P.O.A. on the other hand will not give you individual results for any of the metals or other elements but a result in terms of overall contamination which can be relied upon to give you a accurate statement of your oil condition. When the two are used in conjunction greater reliability and lower operating costs results. MIL-MAC as such does not have a scheme in place. They are a by-pass filter manufacturer who happen to make a good filter and whom I am working in with promoting and selling their product. On the otherhand I do and along with their filters I am trying to promote the use of P.O.A., Fluids Analysis, and PPM schemes. > My '82 Hilux with 2L diesel engine is a particularly smokey performer hope > to alleviate that with biodiesel in the future) and contaminates the oil > heavily with carbon (rings aren't what they should be after 350,000km). > Would a bypass filter remove this contamination and if not what would be the > result continued buildup of the carbon with prolonged oil usage? ** Unfortunately you can not turn the clock back and the wear that exists is the major cause of the smoke although injectors may be and proably are a contributary factor. While a by-pass filter would double the life of the engine remaining it would not in my opinion be a wise investment as with a vehicle like this that is almost almost 20 years old it probably will not last that much longer. (probably 2 or 3 years at the most without major expebditure). While I could and would like to sell you a filter and it would remove almost all of the carbon in the oil it will not stop the oil getting past the rings into the combustion chamber which is probably causing the exhaust smoke. The only way you really know is when you know exactly how much oil the engine uses. If it uses virtually none or very little then get back in touch with me by all means. In my opinion you would be better to invest the money you would spend on a filter into a new vehicle and then instal a filter in this. Sorry if I sound pessimistic but I dont want to rip you off or be any impediment to your investing in a better vehicle. There are vehicles that should be off the road or are candidates for an engine replant and I expect your vehicles is rapidly heading that way. B.r., David > Thanks, > Paul. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Hi Derek, Yes you may use a by-pass filter with either standard petroleum based or synthetic based oils. Both will benefit the oil and the engine tremendously. Please be aware if you are not already that engine oil is made from two main things: namely the base stock which is normally petroleum base, nowadays increasingly becoming synthetic based, or a mixture of the two (semi-synthetic), and the additive package. It is the quality of these two ingredients that determine the quality of the oil. The better the quality of the oil the longer the life of the oil. Poorer quality oils dont work as well as higher quality oils which maintain better lubricity and the other goals they were formulated for etc. thus minimising the wear and tear and allowing quieter, smoother, and more efficient running. By removing the wear particles and other contaminants as they are created you greatly increase the life of the oil and the engine. You still need to change the filter in the by-pass so you remove the particles and contaminants trapped or entrained in the roll. At the same time as you replace the filter you replace 1 litre or quart for every roll so that you replace the additives that have been used up and are entrapped with the contaminants in the filter or in the oil passing through the filter and which you remove when you remove the filter. Oil as such as I have commented before does not wear out it just becomes contaminated. However the additives can become depleted as they are either used up in combating the contaminants or a small amount of which are removed with the oil impregnated filter. It is a bit like a war. You dont replace your whole army or amed forces, but you certainly replace your frontline troops. By replacing the additives every time you do a filter change you ensure the oil is up to scratch at all times. The advantage of a by-pass filter is that you dont have to replace the entire oil every 5000km or whatever but only a small %. As a result you save about 80% on your oil costs while at the same time getting all the advantages of a thoroughly clean oil system. One of the advantages that a lot of people havnt cottoned on to is that you can run a much better grade of oil and have all its advantages for very little more and generally a lot cheaper than if you were regularly changing a standard oil (This with vastly reduced wear rates too). One of the problems in the past with the people using by-pass filters is that to some degree they have been used by the wrong people who have just looked at the cost angle, used them to achieve lower costs and more mileage between filter changes, without doing their other regular routine maintenance. There is no excuse for sloth and laziness, and lack of attention to other details means they pay the price elsewhere with one or two people claiming in the past this filter dosnt work as well as they expected. As such there is no such thing as free motoring but an aware motorist can certainly help reduce his operating cost with these. To answer your questions below better I automatically recommend that you upgrade your oil if possible at the same time as you are now using a lot less and hence can afford a better grade. The first one neednt be any better grade as this is more a flushing out of the system than anything and because you are normally removing a lot of engrained dirt particles, cleaning out gallery ways etc the oil should not remain in the system and should be changed fairly promptly. Sure the oil is quickly cleaner and you could argue that it dosnt need to be changed but you dont know what additives have really been used up in getting to this point in cleaning the system. By changing the oil and the filter pretty promptly you then know you are starting with a clean system with good quality oil. As a rule synthetics are better and offer longer life and I would push you towards these but at the end of the day the decision must be yours based on cost of oils (synthetics are mostly always dearer), oil useage of the vehicle, and a number of other factors in addition. It is a very good rule to select a good quality oil and once chosen to stick with that oil rather than chopping and changing as the base stock and the additive package vary from oil to oil. I would have a look at what the manufacturer recommends in the workshop manual particularly in relation to grade and most definitely not go below that. With regard to filter mileage changes as you are not replacing a lot of oil I recommend doing a filter change every 5000 km particularly for the first change anyway as you are removing the contaminants with the filter roll which then has no possibility of re-enterering the system due to filter breakdown. Be aware that some oils have a very high sulfur content and that if you combine sulfur compounds with water you end up with sulphuric acid. By-pass filters of this nature are extremely good at removing these compounds and their fitting to a system
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
Hi Barry, See I didnt answer this e-mail properly. The fuel filters are basically the same as the oil filters although slightly different. They differ in that while the oil filter has a 50 thou orifice in the inlet opening to drop the oil velocity and to prevent channeling the fuel filter entry is is the same or bigger than the fuel line size so there is no restriction and fuel can progress unrestricted. They also have a cock or tap on the bottom so you can drain them occasionally or every so often, to remove the water which tends to settle out, especially when idle or sitting for a while, and for taking fuel samples for visual examination and inspection. As such the filter element will not fit the canisters you mention. Nevertheless when fitted in conjunction with these as the final filter with a diesel they will give you superfine filtration removing the asphaltine particles and other fine contaminants present in all diesel fuel which are the biggest cause of soot (carbon) and exhaust emissions. When fitted together with a by-pass oil filter they help prevent carbon particles entering the crankcase oil to quite a large degree in the first place and thus help to achieve the cleanest system possible and extended oil and engine life. Both MIL-MAC oil and fuel filters will work exceedingly well on this type of vehicle. There is also generally plenty of room for fitting them and easy access. I can assure you that you will be very happy if you fit them. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Barryt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Biofuel Yahoo Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 7:39 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Filters > David, > I was reading your specs for the Mil-Mac filter element. Do you use the same filter for fuel as well as oil? What are the demensions of the element? I dive a toyota 4wd diesel with standard fuel filter element in the metal canaster used by toyota, mitsubishi and daihatsu diesels. Can I make a Mil-Mac filter element fit in one of those? > > Regards > Barryt Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
Keith, How true. How very true. All the more reason to get some of these other technologies up and running as fast as we can. At a time when the american people and the world needed a progressive, far seeing individual, with a vision for mankind, they seem to have taken a retrograde step and elected a president who is a chip off the old block with the insular thinking of 50 years ago where the world was divided into power blocs and centres of interests rather than being a truly global economy with man helping man and all of us doing our best to help one another. Perhaps I am prejudging the man but I aint seen nothing yet to even start me thinking that perhaps I am wrong. Still it is early days but I hope we dont get 4 years down the track to find nothing changed. The time for change and the introduction of novel technologies is now. This new Energy Policy seems to have nothing new and with "Acceptance of the Status Quo" stamped all over it. Lets hope I am wrong. Like JFK or not there certainly was a dynamism about that era with the start of the space age that certainly seems to be lacking in the current crop of world leaders. I believe some of that came about as a result of right or wrong America under a young JFK made a decision and ran with it. It is this sort of impetus that is required today here and now in relation to energy. Otherwise hell who knows if we take all the oil out of the earth as quickly as we are doing at present the world may fall on its side and those now basking in the glow of modern technological advancement may be situated at the position of the North and South Poles. B.r., David > >We are told that there is > >enough oil to last 70 years if we keep finding oil at the current rate but > >with the increasing number of vehicles on the road and countries like China > >coming on line I seriously doubt if there is 35 years supply left. > >B.r., David > > I doubt we can take another 35 years of the side-effects. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER
SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER Save 10% on what is already the best filter at the best price. Normally 1/5th to 2/5th the price of other competitors Definitely less than 1/2 the price of our cheapest competitor even before discount. For a limited time we are offering MIL-MAC 4M By-pass Filters at the following prices :BE QUICK. This is a limited offer. SINGLE unit SAVE approx $35-00 Filternormally $210-00 retail PAY $189-00 Oil Installation Kit 75-00 "PAY 67-50 2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 "PAY 22-50 G.S.T.38-75 PAY 34-88 TOTAL $348-75 PAY $ 313-88 DOUBLE unitSAVE approx $47-00 Filternormally $320-00 retail PAY $288-00 Oil Installation Kit 75-00 "PAY 67-50 2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 "PAY 22-50 G.S.T. 52-50PAY47-25 TOTAL$472-50PAY $425-25 TREBLE unit SAVE approx $53-00 Filternormally $375-00 retail PAY $337-50 Oil Installation Kit75-00 " PAY 67-50 2 m x Reinf. Hose 25-00 " PAY 22-50 G.S.T. 59-38 PAY 53-44 TOTAL$534-38 PAY$480-94 FITTING normally $45-00 p.h. + PAY $60-00 for up to 2 hours PAY $80-00 for up to 2.5 hours PAY $100-00 for up to 3 hours Our normal hourly rate is $45-00 per hour + G.S.T. = $50-62 p.h. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
John,. Yes they are virtually the same thing although there are minor differences. (See previous e-mails). Anybody who has fitted them and used them knows they work. In the short time I have been involved with them I have come across instances of mechanics removing them and trying to convince the customer they were the cause of totally unrelated problems so the work keeps coming in. I dont suppose you can blame them to a degree. So many people have a stake in planned obsolescence and vehicles breaking down, using oil etc etc. that they are not going to shoot themselves in the foot to do themselves out of work, a job, or sales. There are already trucks using MIL-MACs in Aus that have done the mileages you mention. In the States there are trucks that have done 1.5 million miles without oil drains back in 1998. If they are still on the road they will have done over 3 million km. Trucks like this belong to Shell, Gulf Oil etc, but they are not about to tell you this; their business is selling oil not using it afterall. If you yourself have used them you know they work. MIL-MAC make both Oil and Fuel Filters and if you are running a diesel vehicle they complement each other giving you better performance again with synergistic effect. When I first found out about them I had my doubts as well but it didnt take me long after I fitted the first one to my own car to realize and know they work. Fluid Analysis has further verified that. Frantz have been around since the early 60s and MIL-MAC for at least 14 years I believe but how many people out there amongst the general public in America, Australia or elsewhere know anything about them. There was a local version here called Fluidyne back in the 80s but if you asked the average kiwi I bet you would be lucky to find 2 to3% of the population who had ever heard of them let alone know how they work. MIL-MAC does not have a website. (See previous e-mails). If you want one I can sell you one and at best there will only be a few dollars in it. B.r., David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL > David, > Thanks for the info, it would appear that the FRANTZ filter of yesteryear > was the same thing, we ran them in our fleet of both diesel and petrol > powered trucks, and it is true what you say, we extended the engine life of > all our fleet by 50%, which is quite outstanding. I remember one Chrysler > powered truck engine did 600,000 miles before it needed overhauling. The > engine oil remained clear for a considerable time, and we even ran them on > the fuel system and it was mind blowing as the rubbish that was in the fuel! > Can you let us know of a web address of the MIL-MAC filters? > John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
John, Yes the Frantz is still made in the States, and the company is owned by a chap called George Walker who bought into the business when he retired from the navy in about 1972. Both the MIL-MAC and the Frantz work exceedingly well and are the cheapest options available. The idea has been picked up by other companies who make spin on by-pass filters that generally cost an arm and a leg. eg. In a lot of cases something like $60 compared with approx NZ$2-50 (US$1-) for the MIL-MAC. In the States with alternative filter rolls (used in the hotel industry) they are probably cheaper again. There is not much between both filters and both will work almost equally as well. I believe and have been told by people who have used both that the MIL-MAC is the slightly better unit. Personally I dont think it matters which you use and dont want to get involved in arguements over which is better. I certainly know from the Fluids Analysis work I have done todate that the MIl-MAC works exceedingly well. I am the NZ distributor and am trying to sell them wherever I can as I want to see their use spread so I can make a living, because they are a greener cleaner solution, because I hate to see waste of a resource in the name of making a profit, and which is something that belongs to not only the current generation but future generations to come. We are told that there is enough oil to last 70 years if we keep finding oil at the current rate but with the increasing number of vehicles on the road and countries like China coming on line I seriously doubt if there is 35 years supply left. B.r., David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Filters > Group, > I did a search on the internet and came up with this web address > > http://www.wefilterit.com/home.htm > > So if you are looking for a similar type of filter for our American friends its much the same as David's Mil-Mac filter > John > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Off topic and On topic
Hey Keith, Whats off topic about honey. Its about the best darn biofuel for the human body you can get. No seriously I would accept that its off topic and duly marked it O.T when replying. My point in replying here and bringing this up is that I agree with you. It is and would be extremely hard to define whats on topic and whats off topic. I realise that without restrictions it makes the daily download a bit top heavy for some people but as you and others have so often pointed out there is always the delete button. I certainly dont envy you your job, its certainly not one I would want. I see you get the occasional grizzle guts and you have to spend time replying which takes up your time. In my opinion both you and Steve with his site do a darn good job so both of you take a thankyou from me and all the others out there who appreciate your efforts. B.r., David Also, keeping it narrow means defining what's on-topic and what's not. Do you think you could do that without risk of excluding valuable and on-topic discussion? Some of the guys were talking about the wonders of New Zealand honey the other day, clearly off-topic, but they're sensible and didn't push it too far. So fine, honey's off-topic, put it on the banned list. (Why didn't you object to that, by the way? - it wasn't about fuels.) Er, but before you ban it, do an archive search and you'll find discussion on using honey as a feedstock for ethanol. So maybe you could define it as "off-topic, unless it's on-topic"? And so on and on. Anyway, don't be deterred, go on, make your list. When you've finished it, please persuade the membership to accept your definitions. Don't be surprised when people start yelling at you: "Stop wasting time with all this off-topic political BS, let's get back to biofuels!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
John, Thanks for your nice e-mail. Have just sent you an e-mail through the n.g answering your toilet roll query. In my opinion these filters should be fitted to every vehicle by law from an enviromental aspect as they help cut down exhaust emmissions but as I have said before you have about as much chance, because of the entrenched lobbies, of getting this past as the Pope has of converting the Roman Catholic Church to Buddhism. If you want to learn more and you havnt already done so have a look at both Keiths and Steves sites. They are constantly updating them and in my opinion do an excellent job. B.r., David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance > David, > I was a member some time ago, and unsubscribe because I went on leave, > re-subscribed when I returned and thought I had subscribed to the wrong > group!! > David, thanks for your time, I appreciate it > John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
John, Yes and No. The filter roll is almost identical to a normal roll in size and dimensions but you cannot use a standard toilet roll as these are too loosely wound and would cause channeling which would cause the filter not to work properly. (Please remember fluids always choose the path of least resistance.You may be able to obtain a filter roll off the shelf which is identical. MIL-MAC have them made in Australia and I import them from them. These are made from a combination of imported Canadian woodchip and local Austrlian woodchip which includes a certain amount of Aussie hardwood chip I believe. In the States they have toilet rolls which are supplied to the hotel industry that will do the same job. Our standard toilet roll in NZ is only 200 leaves and the 350 leaf ones dont work either as they are also too loose. What you need is a 400 leaf one with a standard 1.5" (38mm) core and 4 or 4.25" (approx 107mm) in width. This fits into a can which restrains it and hold it in place. Cans are sealed top and bottom with a nitrile rubber seal and the only way out for the oil is through the filter. You can always check the filter is working after 5 minutes operating by placing your hand on the filter casing. If its warm you know its working. MIL-MAC buy them by the container or truck load to get the price right and I sell them for NZ$2-50 which sure beats the approx $20 you pay here for a spin on filter which dosnt work properly and is after all only really a screening and protective device. You still leave these in place to do the job they were designed for. It amazes me that the Oil companies and Automobile manufacturers have got away with this planned obsolescence built into virtually every engine made in the last 100 years. Perhaps in the past up to the 70s and maybe early 80s this may have been justifiable but in the last 15 or 20 years the knowledge and ability to build better and longer lasting oils has certainly been there and they have been made. It certainly makes far more sense to remove the contaminants and wear particles as they are created rather than to just remove the extra large ones and leave the wear particles and contaminants to circulate causing continuous wear. This is analgous to sandblasting. As I say in my advertising literature Oil does not wear out, it justs becomes contaminated. If you are removing the contaminants just as fast as they are created your oil will last almost indefinitely. B.r. David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL > Do these filters use a toilet roll as an element? > John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
Barry, Thanks for your e-mail. They certainly work and I have one fitted to my own car which I use with Fluids Analysis and a good P.P.M.(Predictive Preventive Maintenance) scheme to give me lower operating costs and greater reliabilty. They are made in W.A. but with my Special Iintroductory Price I can probably get one to you at only a few more dollars at most if you are on this side (eastern states) which I guess you are as I see you are an ihug subscriber and I know virtually all their locations are on this side with the exception of Adelaide and Gawler. Will send you my prices by e-mail. Get back to me if you are interested. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Barryt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL > David, > I loved your information about the Mil-Mac bypass filter. What you say about engine wear really makes sense. You said in a previous email that it was an Australian product. I'm Australian and I can't locate it. None of the people that I have spoken to are aware of the Mil-Mac brand. I have looked on the web and couldn't find a Mil-Mac site. Not in the phone book. Perhaps they are known here by another name. Can you please give me more information. > > Barryt > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What is a MIL
What is a MIL-Mac Filter and how does it work? A MIL-MAC By-pass filter is a filter that is fitted in addition to the standard full flow filter and continuously taking approx 10% of the oil flow uses Ultra Fine filtration employing depth filtration with 130 x the filtration to remove the contaminants from the oil as they are created to keep the oil and inside the motor ultra clean. This results in motors that hardly wear and last at least double their normal life and more often 4 to 5 times longer than normal. In the United States there are already vehicles that have done in excess of 1,500,000 miles (almost 2,500,000 km). Among the big users employing these type of filters are all the armed forces (Airforce, Army, Navy, and Marine Corps), big companies like Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc, and even oil companies like Shell. In addition there are in excess of a million enlightened private motorists using these filters most of whom have not drained their oil for years and who use P PM (Predictive Preventive Maintenance) engine oil analysis. Shell has trucks that have not had their oil drained for more than 12 years now and there are many trucks and cars with well over 1,000,000 km on the clock. Full Flow filters are mostly designed to filter all the volume of oil contained in the engine in one minute or under and because their flow rate is so high their use today is largely one of protection only, removing only the large chunks and particles and relying on the improved quality of the additives for a reasonable life for the oil. While a lot of the manufacturers of these filters claim a rating of 10 to 40 micron this is a nominal rating only and 30 micron or larger is often the smallest particle they remove on a continuous basis. Tests conducted in Detroit by the large motor companies have shown that particles as large as 200 micron will pass through a nominally rated 10 micron filter. Most wear in engines is caused by particles in the 1-15 micron range which full flow filters will and can not remove at all with the result that they continue to circulate acting like sandblasting shot continuing to wear and erode and easily causing 2/3 to 3/4 of the wear in most motors. With the addition of a by-pass filter like the MIL-MAC which can filter down to 1 micron and more often to sub micron levels (0.1 micron) the contaminants are removed as fast as they are created by the combustion process allowing the oil to run on clean oil 100% of the time, not allowing even small particles to keep circulating. In addition because the MIL-MAC filter core is made of cellulose this can absorb and hold quite large amounts of water without acid forming in the oil which is what happens when sulfur compounds and water are combined for any length of time and is the biggest destroyer of oil. Among the facts that the public needs to be aware of are the following: * Oil does not wear out it merely becomes contaminated. By removing the contaminants as they are created oil will last almost indefinitely. * Over 80% of the normal wear generated within an engine is contributed to by contamination the conventional factory full flow filters miss or fail to remove. * 95% of the contamination generated within the engine is below 10 microns in size. Tests have shown at best Factory Full Flow Filters are only efficient in controlling particles 15 microns and larger. * Over 75% of critical engine component clearances are less than 10 microns with a lot being in the range of 1 to 2 or 3 micron. * MIL-MAC Filters are transferable from vehicle to vehicle. If you sell the car you can just remove the filter and reinstall it in the new car. * MIL-MAC Filters can help you save 80% on oil cost. * MIL-MAC Filters extend the life of a full flow filter by up to 4 or 5 times its normal life expectancy. * MIL-MAC Filters also can and will if maintained properly extend the life of your engine by up to 4 or 5 times its normal life expectancy * MIL-MAC Filters in addition to extending the life of your engine also extend the life of your exhaust and muffler system by removing those contaminants that literally rot and decay the system from within drastically shortening its efficient operating life. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] By-pass Filters v Factory Full Flow Filters
By-pass Filters vs Factory Full Flow Filters Many Factory Full Flow Filters including popular and well known brands are only designed to remove the larger particles. A filter that removes particles 3/4 the size will reduce engine wear by 50%. FACTS * Although many manufacturers claim removal rates as low as 10 micron this is a nominal rating only and is virtually meaningless. Absolute rating is only one that counts. * 90% of Full Flow Filters have great difficulty removing particles smaller than 20-25 micron. * Factory Full Flow Filters remove only some of the particles below 25 micron (generally a low percent) and not all of them. * Under independent tests conducted by the engine and automobile manufacturers and verified by the SAE many Factory Full Flow filters passed particles as large as 200 micron. * Most of the wear and tear in engines is caused by particles between 5 and 15 micron. * Very few Full Flow filters remove particles below 15 micron. Again only some and not all particles. * Particles remaining in circulation continue to abrade and wear until they are removed. * Fine filters that remove particles down to 10 micron in size compared to 40 micron are not 4 times more efficient but about 20 times with about the same reduction in wear and tear. * It makes no sense to just spend $20,000 or whatever on a vehicle when for a small amount of extra money you can install a filter, which can be transferred from vehicle to vehicle, that will cut oil costs by 80%, helps prevent wear and tear, and extends engine life (double at least guaranteed) by up to 4 or 5 times its normal expected life. * With the advent of synthetics and other improvements in oil technology oil life has been greatly extended but abrasives and contaminants remain the same and unless removed will greatly shorten engine life. It makes sense to remove the abrasives and contaminants rather than change the entire oil. * MIL-MAC By-pass Filters fitted in addition to your Factory Full Flow Filter remove virtually all particles and contaminants down to 1 micron and sub micron levels (0.1 micron) due to 130 times the surface filtration area. MIL-MAC has a proven track record of removing particles down to 0.1 micron (about as small as the particles in cigarette smoke). * Note: The vehicle manufacturers (who want to sell more vehicles), the oil companies (who want to sell more oil), and others with vested interests are not in a hurry to tell you all this. For further details, information, and prices contact National Distributors: David Reid Biofuel Systems 78 Wade River Rd, Whangaparaoa, Auckland 1463 PH/Fax: (09) 424-8625 e-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] webpages: www. Biofuelsys.com (to come) (As he is not always in attendance and quite often on the road the best time to call may be early morning or evening). Oil Filters for petrol and diesel engines, Fuel filters for all engines, & Air Filters for grit and moisture removal. * Micron = 1 millionth of a metre, or 1 thousanth of a millimetre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors
Ronald, These work and this is how most commercial anhydrous fuel is made. The grade/size used with ethanol is 3A. Most of the plants are designed in the States by 3 or 4 companies with most of them being made in Brazil by one company largely for cost reasons . This is the most efficient way of removing water with the molecular sieve being able to be regenerated over and over but unfortunately to be really efficient the plants need to be really large with one or two beds being regenerated while the other is being used. The molecular sieve is expensive. I have done quite a lot of work on this in the past and could design a small plant but dont have the money to do. In Brazil I believe they use bagasse in a number of plants to fire the boilers to keep the cost down. As such it is not getting rid of the water that is the problem as much as recovering the ethanol that is removed along with it.If you are losing ethanol that is just going up into thin air during the drying process the manufactured cost of your ethanol quickly rises. One way that has been used in the past and is still used to remove water is the process of distillation with glycol. This surfices to a certain stage but is energy costly so molecular sieve generation is increasing particularly as plants grow. In the States while the overall output has increased dramatically the number of plants has actually gone down although there are always small new players entering the field all the time. ADM did not get to the size it is by efficiency but by massive govt subsidies. Hope this is of some help. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors > Keith, > What do you know about molecular seives? I read an article on the net about > a company who uses the seive to filter all the water out of ethanol after > distillation making it pure 100% > - Original Message - > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 11:32 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Hi John, Welcome to the group you snivelling and whinging Aussie. No seriously John welcome and dont leave the group as Steve says. Both Steve and Keith run pretty good sites overall, with access to lots of information and there are lots of good members with some darn good contributing ones. I suppose its inevitable that you get people who want to have a go at others. Every n.g I have ever been in tends to have one or two miscast people. The best thing is to ignore them most of the time, to get on, learn as much as you can, and try to contribute. Unfortunately the world is made up of givers and takers. Most people never learn that the quickest way to learn is to try helping others. B.r., David - Original Message - From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance > To the entire group, > It puzzles me as to why personal and vindictive attacks have to be > perpetrated using this forum. I joined it so I can learn all about > biodiesel and how to make it, plus keep up with developments on a global > scale. > Can anyone tell me if there is an alternative to this group where this > reprehensible behaviour is not practised? > John in Australia > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance > > > > To Whom This May Concern, > > me thinks you protest too much -- you sniveling socialist pigs! wherefore > the > > invectives? Even an idiot can sense your political proclivity. When will > > you socialists/communists realize that your utopian pursuits are nothing > more > > than a diabolical scheme that will eventually be frustrated? > > I tuned in to learn more about bio-fuels, and related matters-not to be > > bombarded by your frequent conjecture stemming from your obvious political > > bias. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
Why you should fit a MIL-MAC in addition to your standard Full Flow Oil Filter Full Flow FilterMIL-MAC By-pass Oil Filter (Uses SURFACE filtration(Uses DEPTH filtration Uses perforated membranes which can Universally recognized as the most be damaged or clogged up with efficient method. large particles.Uses full depth filtration which only allows thoroughly cleaned oil to come out the other side. Membrane only 1/32" (=0.8mm) or less Filter material 4" (100mm +) or in thickness. more in thickness. 130 x more surface filtration.__ (Uses no additional filtering.(Works in addition to the standard factory full flow filter. (Designed to pass all the volume of oil in(Designed to thoroughly filter only 10% 1 minute or under. volume in the same time. (Only traps large particles. (Traps all particles. (At very best removes particles only(At very best removes all particles as as low as 10 micron. (nominal rating) low as 0.1 micron and all above. (100 times better than any full flow). (At best removes particles 15 micron(At best removes the majority of and above. (nominal rating)particles between 0.1 and 1 micron and all above 1 micron. (150 times at best, to 15 times better ). (Realistically removes particles 25(Realistically removes all particles micron and above and has difficulty above 1 micron. (absolute) removing those under. (Still nominal(still 25 times better at worst and rating although a few are absolute). 10 times better at very worst)._ (Can become clogged up and fail to (Can also become clogged up at surface operate properly if oil is exceptionally if oil is exceptionally dirty but continues to dirty. operate as surface contamination is pushed a small way into the filter and will normally last its full allotted mileage span with no difficulty. (If fully clogged up or in cold weather (If fully clogged up switches over to full opens a by-pass valve that allows oil to flow filter so oil continues to be filtered at pass on the basis that dirty oil is better all times even if inefficiently. than no oil at all. This invariably causes While operational even if only partially still damage and can drastically reduce removes all particles. normal expected engine life.___ (Does not remove the vast majority of (Removes all particles above 1 micron particles between 5-15 micron which and especially all those between 5-15 cause the majority of wear in an engine. micron. (Allows virtually all the particles (Removes all particles above 1 micron between 5 -15 micron to continue to generally as quickly as they are created circulate causing most of the wear and thus eliminating wear and tear. tear. (Gives normal expected life which with (Gives greatly extended operational life of planned obsolescence is becomingthe engine which allows it to last the life shorter and shorter. of the vehicle
Re: Archives - was RE: [biofuel] Diesel survivalist - running on biodiesel
Thats not a bad idea. Maybe you can donate the proceeds to the communist party (joke) or to help fund the jtf expedition that this started with. While there may be some junk and a fair amount of irrelevant data there is some very worhwhile info that some people would certainly pay for, even communists and socialists. B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Archives - was RE: [biofuel] Diesel survivalist - running on biodiesel > why not put it all on a cd each year and sell it for a few dollars. > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > we borrow it from our children. > -- > > - Original Message - > From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 1:10 PM > Subject: RE: Archives - was RE: [biofuel] Diesel survivalist - running on > biodiesel > > > > Is that 31.5 meg zipped? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:43 AM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Archives - was RE: [biofuel] Diesel survivalist - running on > > biodiesel > > > > > > >It would be very useful to be able to download the lot as 1 file. I am > very > > >rural and my ISP only allots so many hours per month to users. Any other > > ISP > > >is a long distance call. To download and browse would be the best method. > > > > > >Kirk > > > > It won't let you download them as one file, or not any way that I can > > see. You'd have to do it message by message. I have the whole thing > > as one file though. It's 31.5Mb. We're considering turning it into a > > db on our site, but it'd be a PITA to maintain it, can't think of a > > way of auto-updating it. Yet. > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > > >From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 7:57 AM > > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Diesel survivalist - running on biodiesel > > > > > > > > >Hi Michael > > > > > >David Reid mentioned a TR filter recently, means a toilet-roll > > >filter. There's some info on them in the archives. Take a gander. > > > > > >By the way, guys, there are now 5368 messages in the archives. It's > > >now a very useful resource, lots of depth. Shortly before we hit > > >5000, Yahoo upgraded their archives system - previously you could > > >only search the first 5000 messages in an archives, now you can > > >search the whole thing. > > > > > >Keith Addison > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Hanns et al, Oil composition is in the article by Mary Enig at: www.apc.org.sg/special.htm . Have quickly scanned it but dont have time to read it. The better source is probably the USDA Nutritional Data Base. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Hanns, See below B.r., David - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 1:06 AM Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow > David, > > See leegerry's message. (am using Microsoft Outlook for my email and > although I've scanned the Internet Header of each message, have yet to find > out where the message # is located) The price of crude palm oil is > definitely around $US200/tonne at present. **Perhaps try: Malaysian Institute of Chartered Secretaries for a source. He is much more likely to be correct than me as we are not talking about the same thing exactly. He mentioned the Intl Market Price whereas I mentioned a price that someone had given me for a grower wanting to sell a certain amount privately (probably pushed for money and the price reflected that). I can probably get a price in a few minutes and will probably do so out of curiosity. > > As I mentioned in my original message, reported production cost in Indonesia > for 1996 was $US127/tonne and FOB price was $US600/tonne with projected FOB > price to remain above $US400/tonne during the foreseeable future. That > scenario had remained more or less true. This was from a study done by > Donald F. Larsen of the International Economics Department of the World > Bank. > > Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Thanks Gerry, Now I know. Believe a lot of palm oil is turned into soap and is also the basis for a lot of glycerine. I believe quite an amount could be used for biodiesel locally if the byproduct of glycerine could be refined and purified properly, thus having the glycerine subsidise the biodiesel cost. When you are just dumping the glycerine it certainly does not make sense. The trouble with glycerine is that it is so energy intensive because the boiling point is 290 C (more than 3.5 times that of ethanol) B.r., David - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow > > Price for Malaysian CPO(crude palm oil) is M$750 for May 2001. That is > US$198. > It is not feasible to turn it into Biofuel, unless gas prices goes up > double. > Gerry > > > > > > > "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/18/2001 04:30:33 AM > > Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > To: > cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) > Subject: Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow > > > > > Hi Hanns, > > > >One of the problems using palm oil might be its relatively high cost. > The > > >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has > gone > as > > >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is > Indonesia > > >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are > > >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are > > >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right. > > >Hence my leaning towards large scale production. > ** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat > Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the > price > for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was > anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be > the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the > back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long > ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I > would > have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the > problem is getting it to market. > > > > > >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The > copra > > >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain > so. > > >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at > > >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very > small > > >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct > > >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% > FFA > > >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves > no > > >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I > am > > >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) > in > > >diesel engines. > ** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content > initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was > high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they > import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed > as > I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the > figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see > round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their > diet it may have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified. > Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?) > > > Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct, > > with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either > > diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a > > mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different > > ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel > > system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be > > worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil", > > from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests. > **Would also like to know a bit more about DME > > > >On the other hand, > > > > Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-) > > > > >there are many (presently) unused coconut p
Re: [biofuel] The MN Way
Hi David, Thanks. Have sent them an e-mail saying I wouldnt mind some information and an indicative price in due course but no hurry. Dont think it will be too cheap somehow. O.T.We certainly had some of the best honey in the world here and there was a multimillion dollar business exporting queen bees all over the world particularly to the northern hemisphere because we had none of the diseases that most northern hemisphere countries have until last year until the varroa bee mite was introduced either accidentally or deliberately. The feeling is that it may have been deliberate but without any smoking gun who is to say. I have just opened the local paper which has just been delivered asI came in and there on the front page is an article titled Feeling sting of varroa bee mite. Some of our native flora honeys are delicious with ones like manuka having very strong proven anti-viral and other health benefits. As a result the price for this type of honey has hit the roof in comparison to what it used to be with most going to health food pharmacy shops overseas. If you get a chance try it and I am sure you will really enjoy it.(a liquid honey so very different to a lot of white clover honey which tastes as if it has wax in it by comparison. Red clover is a lot better. Others that are really nice are Pohutakawa (our native Xmas tree which grows round the coast with dark green leaves and which flowers with a bright red flower right on Xmas. Very beautiful) and Rata (another native that starts out as a vine in the bush proper being a saphrophyte and which turns into a massive tree, again with a flower very similar to Pohutakawa Travelling around NZ in the bush areas around Xmas time again, although this one flowers for a much longer time, one is impressed by the sheer beauty of these. There is quite a number of honey gift packs made up of various honeys available and they are sent all over the world. - Original Message - From: david e cruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] The MN Way > Hi David R., > > Nothing yet on the price David. I think their plans > are for the fourth quarter, if they don`t make that date > it will be spring 2002. It would be an extremely good > unit to go with biodiesel as the fuel. What`s amazing > about the whole thing is that the entire unit is being > built with widely and readily available on the shelf > components ! Got to hand it to those UK chaps > from Canada, a real sharp bunch ! Must be those > "Northern Lights" . I have to say also that they have > the best honey in the world so far ! I haven`t had any honey from New > Zealand yet and I hear the bees there make > a great honey. > > David C. > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Hi Hanns, > >One of the problems using palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The > >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone as > >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia > >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are > >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are > >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right. > >Hence my leaning towards large scale production. ** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the price for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I would have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the problem is getting it to market. > > > >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The copra > >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so. > >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at > >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small > >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct > >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% FFA > >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no > >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am > >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in > >diesel engines. ** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed as I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their diet it may have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified. Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?) > Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct, > with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either > diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a > mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different > ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel > system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be > worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil", > from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests. **Would also like to know a bit more about DME > >On the other hand, > > Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-) > > >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms > >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined for > >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based > >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the > >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel. > > > >Any thought on this subject? > > I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most > worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general > interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time > in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application. > > Good luck! B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Kirk, Very true. Yeast when first introduced to the wash where there is plenty of starch go into a breeding pattern until the oxygen is used up at which point they start producing ethanol and then dying as their numbers outgrow the food supply. This is why the amount of yeast introduced into a wash is important and should be sufficiently large enough so they quickly dominate. B.r., David - Original Message - From: kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 4:04 AM Subject: RE: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow > A big difference in yeast bodies/ethanol yield ratio can be made by accurate > counts of innoculant. The organism has a replication time and you would like > the food used up just before a statistical replication if ethanol is the > objective rather than yeast bodies. > I read this probably 25 years ago in a book with the words Industrial > Alcohol in the title. The author had a Scottish name. Original publication > was pre 1920. Book was not available for loan. The library was the Millikan > Library on campus at CalTech. Thats all the info I can give except if memory > serves he said doing it properly could affect yeast bodies by a doubling and > that is a lot of lost ethanol. A microscope would be needed so you could > quantify your innoculant. Accurate temperature control is vital. Any biology > majors on this list? I'm electronics. > > Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The MN Way
Hi Ed, Dont have the link but Capstone until recently was part owned by Fletcher Energy here (about 50% I think) and 2 other partners, one of them being Bill Gates. Fletcher Energy has been taken over by Shell but apart from its dubious ownership this looks a very promising technology. Undoubtedly with this kind of backing it will go a long way. Could probably dig the link out for you as I have had a look at their site. B.r., David > Anyway, Capstone is building and shipping. Don't know cost. Anyone have the > link for them? > > Ed B. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The MN Way
Ed, Dana, Try this: Capstone Turbine: www.capstoneturbine.com . I know from what has been reported in the press here in the last 6 months or so that it seems a very promising technology. I also know they have been trialing a couple of Capstone Turbine buses here in Christchurch for the last year or so and the reports are very positive. B.r., David > Anyway, Capstone is building and shipping. Don't know cost. Anyone have the > link for them? > > Ed B. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The MN Way
Hi David C, Thanks for the microturbine websites. Will have a look at them properly at some stage. The CMS Paragon unit certainly looks a good unit and may be a very good choice for your application if you proceed further. Any idea of price? B.r., David - Original Message - From: david e cruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] The MN Way > Hi Dana & Ed, > > Here are some of the current microturbine websites: > www.microturbine.com this is the Capstone Corp. site > www.honeywell.com this is the Honeywell/Allied Signal > site, they sell the Parallon 75 microturbine. > www.ingersoll-rand.com they have a good lineup and > are adding more in the near future. > www.iesl.com these folks are distributors for Elliot > microturbines, Elliot has a 45kw unit at present and are > adding an 80kw and 200kw unit soon, before the year > is out. > www.bowmanpower.co.uk these folks will have a unit out > soon also. > www.cmspower.com these folks are in Canada and have > by far what will be one of the best if not the very BEST > unit to hit the market before years end. Their opening > shot will be a 500kw microturbine featuring a disk turbine, > it will have a 20 year life span and can be rebuilt with > less than 20 off the shelf components, first maintenance > will be at 5 years and that will consist of changing fluids > and that`s it. It will have an unheard of for a microturbine > top rpm of 3600 rpm. With more units with higher > kw ratings to follow soon, all in all I would say they look > pretty impressive !! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Ron, What you need to do is work out how much fuel you are going to use in a year and how much each month. Once you know this you can then work out how you are going to produce this. You then need to know how much time you are prepared to devote to distillation at anyone hit. Once you know this you can roughly work out how you are going to achieve this and what size still you require. What you will also need to figure out is what you are going to use for your fermentation stock and what you are going to use for the heat energy source for the distillation. Work these all out and get back to me and I will try to give you a hand. What you will need is probably a 3 or 4" column diameter still but before I can advise any further I need as much detail as possible. Also how are you going to ferment the fermentation stock and what size tanks are you going to use? If distilling for this amount of vehicles you will probably need a BATF permit. It generally tends to pay to stay on the right side of the law. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow > Thanks for your letter. I'm still trying to find the right size design for > what I have in mind. Maybe I've been thinking to small as to still size. I > have a 1993 corvette, a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo, a 1972 chevy chevelle, a > mitsubishi mirage, a riding lawn mower and a push mower. I'm paying US > $29.00 every 10 days for the corvette gasoline(petrol?), the chevelle eats > gas likes crazy, the rodeo and the mitsubishi aren't to bad but still use > fuel. (we have a big family) I would like to make enough ethanol to run the > family fleet but have no idea how large to make my still. Any hints would be > greatly appreciated as I know you are getting into the still business. If > there is someone who has good plans for the size still I need please let me > know. > Thanks to all, > Ron Miller Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hi Ron, Keith, Steve, Aleks, et al, At present I believe I have solved a number of problems associated with small fuel ethanol stills, and was about to bring a range of small stills out at the start of the year, after spending the previous 18 months working almost full time on them in between caring for my mother. I was hoping that these small stills would help pay for further developments to get some of the slightly bigger still experimental work finished and to a useable stage but have got somewhat diverted with these by-pass oil and fuel filters which I see as a worthwhile venture in their own right, whose use I would most definitely like to see spread and become commonplace, and with trying to solve the distillation and purification of glycerine, a by-product which widespread production and purification to a reasonably high level would certainly help with the manufacture and cost of biodiesel. Unfortunately the envolvement with the by-pass filters has meant I need to concentrate on that at this stage as it is taking every penny I have to keep it going with the result that work on the stills has come to a grinding halt in the meantime. At present I could get back and shortly intend to get back on to the production of stills but really need about $20,000 to $30,000 to get them up and running. If there is someone out there who is prepared to put up that sort of money in return for a reasonable return on their money I am prepared to get back onto them but in the meantime I need to pursue the course I have adopted. At this stage I have thrown a lot of money at both projects although far more at the still one and would eventually like to see a return on my money while at the same time seeing these benefit people. Having spent the last 11 1/2 years of my life looking after my folks I dont want to be in the same boat when it comes to my old age. The plans are therefore not for sale but I hope it will not be long before I get stills to market. Ron if you are getting involved with ethanol production I would advise you against involvement with a lot of the small alcohol stills out there for the home distillation market as the majority of them were designed by people who only have a limited knowledge of distillation with grossly inferior stills resulting. (not to say that good quality stills will not come out of this area eventually). Talk about Cowboys International. (probably not a good thing to say to someone living in the States as I am sure there are many hardworking, honest, and good cowboys there. In this part of the world the word cowboy applied in this sense means something totally different: like someone who is as rough as guts, takes no pride in his work, and in short is a rip off artist). I suggest you download the two books Keith has on his site and thoroughly read them. You will learn a lot from them in terms of the basics. I would also search your local large city library with the help of a good librarian who knows what she is doing. It is amazing what they can turn up. They can also source books from other libraries. One good source worth looking in is your local university Engineering School Dept. B.r., David > >Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still > >design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know > >who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel > >for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home > >Distillation Handbook " By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good > >plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good > >details for construction purposes. > >Thanks, > >Ron Miller > >Mobile , Alabama > > Hello Ron > > The Home Distillation Handbook is really for drinkers more than > fuellers. You should do better with these (both full-text online, > free access): > > Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html > > The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html > > There's currently a shortage of a good fuel alcohol still, sorry to > say. The stills on offer are mostly for drink production and are too > small. But we're working on it and should have some results soon. > > Best wishes > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re Volvo UK and biodiesel - 2
Agreed Keith, Hands up those now buying or wanting to buy a Volvo car. B.r., David Good work, Terry! > > > - Original Message - > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:37 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Re Volvo UK and biodiesel - 2 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
