[Biofuel] Is this the US politics list or the biofuels list?
somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. I have been very tempted to leave this list recently for this very reason. I simply do not have time to filter out all the dross when trying to find the information about biofuels. I can get other people's opinions on foreign politics very easily elsewhere, that is not why I subscribe to this list. If the politicians you are talking about have a policy that is highly relevant to biofuels, then surely it's fine to post about that here - but I didn't manage to spot anything along those lines. There have been other posts on this list about Israeli politics which have been even more off topic - of course I have strong views about that, but I don't believe this is the place to post them. Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Flying the Dirty Skies
Peggy, --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Keith, Although this article makes some good points, it may be neglecting the philosophy applies to school bus use. The number of vehicles necessary to carry students in small numbers (one, two, or three) is still more fuelish than transporting a larger number of students in a mass transit mode. This much is certainly true. The cheap flights offer an alternative to vehicle use thereby saving all those related environmental concerns. I, for one, have saved a great deal of time and money by utilizing cheap flights and feel that it has been helpful in reducing auto use. This is an erroneous argument. You will probably have contributed more to global pollution by flying than by driving. Some years ago I read an in-depth article about the fuel consumption of aeroplanes versus cars, and as a broad generalisation a Boeing 747 flying from London to New York will consume about the same amount of fuel as if _every_ single passenger were driving that distance (about 3000 miles) in a separate car. Of course, the average number of occupants in a car will be greater than one, which means that on the basis of fuel consumption alone, it would be better to drive. There are of course many provisos here. For starters, aeroplanes have become more efficient since then, although not by an enormous factor. They might also not be full, which would make their fuel consumption per passenger worse. And a lot of fuel is used in taking off and gaining altitude, so shorter journeys are even less efficient than a relatively long journey such as New York to London. And perhaps more importantly, you have to consider the energy of manufacture of a car, which is typically more than is used in fuel in its entire lifetime. I simply do not know how much energy is used in manufacturing a plane, but I suspect it is vastly _less_ than it uses in fuel due to the much higher distances travelled and the longer lifespan. So as a general rule, buses and trains are much better than cars over short distances, and much better than planes over medium distances, whereas planes are best left to journeys where for example an ocean must be crossed, or the time to travel even on a fast train would be impractical. My experience is that trains take you from city centre to city centre, whereas planes require a time-consuming journey at each end to get to your final destination. The flight time may be quicker, but the overall journey time is only quicker for journeys longer than about 5 or 6 hours. But then, I also promote remote viewing which doesn't cost a penny. Ha! What are your alternatives? Indeed - not totally free from energy consumption, but vastly better than travelling. Yes, I know the answer will be email, teleconferencing, fax, telephone, and postal service. But then, the face-to-face meeting is sometimes invaluable as well as being able to help our groups set up their biofuels coalitions. When we go to a location, we participate in town meetings, appointments with bankers, government officials, and a variety of other influential meetings that can make a difference in funding for biofuels projects. I am very pleased to take advantage of cheap flights. There can be no doubt about the value of face to face meetings, and I would say the most realistic strategy from an energy point of view is not to try to eliminate them altogether, but to reduce their frequency and encourage travel to be done by more efficient means. Regards, Donald Best wishes, Peggy = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] oil price over the years
Hakan, You make some very valid points. It would be useful to see these prices rebased in Euros. I'm not sure what proportion of the list's readers are based in areas more closely allied to the Euro than to the US dollar, but I suspect it's quite a high proportion. For me the US dollar is a fairly meaningless measure, because it has changed so dramatically against my local currency (GB pounds). While we don't use Euros, they are much more stable relative to the pound than the US dollar. Another effect of US taxation policy on fuel is that the current high crude prices have a proportionally large effect on pump prices there. However here in the UK prices are significantly less than 10% higher than a couple of months ago - in other words, the current high prices have only a very small effect on people's perceptions, and hence a very small economic impact. I suspect the economic impact in the US will be a lot higher, another reflection of a much higher dependency on this one, limited resource. Donald --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MH, The list is not really accurate, since it is using dates before the both the recent price rises and even more important the dollars large fall to most of the currencies used in respective country. If you include and study this, you will see that US is hit by a double wammy. For many of the countries the Euro is applicable, or the currency follow the Euro and it will show more modest rises in local currency, than the sharp rise in US dollar and currencies connected to the dollar. It is unbelievable that the Americans are so used to only study their own belly button, that they cannot see in which direction they are heading. Combine this with the tendency of OPEC countries to sign delivery/development contracts with other countries than US plus coalition and the writing is on the wall. For NG it is the risk that the resources are signed up with others, when US finally get their transportation/import act together. Oil producers are intimidated by the Bush policies and do not trust US or the dollar any longer. They are hedging and it is very obvious. It looks like the US strong man policies are starting to backfire and it is not only the debt situation and the trade balance that are falling apart. President George W. Bush is the most expensive president in US history and it is remarkable that the US population do not see it clearly, or think that they can afford him for 4 more years. It is very large and obvious risks that the sh-t will hit the fan. I do not understand that he even want to be president for an other period. LOL Luc touched on this very important situation in an earlier post, a petty that he got it a bit muddled by involving Israel in it. The economic vulnerability and policies is worth its own independent analysis, even if it is a case for some connections. Hakan At 02:02 PM 10/19/2004, you wrote: I was recently over at Energy Information Administration US Department Of Energy International Energy Annual http://www.eia.doe.gov/iea/ and clicked on PRICES then on Table 7.2 World Survey of Recent Selected Petroleum Product Prices (Including Taxes) Heres a sampling below -- U.S. Dollars per U.S. Gallon Region/Country DateGasoline Diesel Canada 1Q/20032.24 1.43 US 1/2003 1.65 1.49 Brazil 1/2003 2.44 1.52 Colombia 1/2003 1.65 0.85 Paraguay 1/2003 1.62 1.30 Venezuela1/2003 0.16 0.10 France 1Q/2003 4.74 3.61 Germany 1Q/2003 4.39 3.46 Spain1Q/2003 3.43 2.99 Sweden 1Q/2003 4.45 3.70 UK1Q/2003 4.95 4.76 Poland 1Q/2003 3.53 2.83 Russia 1/2003 0.69 0.63 Iran 20020.34 0.07 Kuwait 20020.78 0.68 Saudi Arabia 20020.91 0.37 Libya 20020.56 0.50 Nigeria 20020.82 0.82 South Africa 20021.41 1.25 Australia1Q/2003 1.65 2.18 China 4Q/20021.32 1.21 Hong Kong 1Q/20035.44 3.07 India 20022.50 1.72 Indonesia2002 0.68 0.72 Japan 1Q/20033.36 2.67 New Zealand 1Q/20032.40 1.42 Thailand 4Q/2002 1.36 1.25 Includes
RE: [Biofuel] fuel additives
--- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Johnston, Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 124k miles on original exhaust seems exceptional to me, really?? is this also the experience of other people? i have quite a few cars here that have 100-200k on gasoline engines with the original exhaust and it's in good condition. and there's one with a rusted out muffler that has about 170k on it. in the UK climate, 123k miles would be exceptional. How long exhausts last depends on a lot of factors, including how you drive your vehicle and the prevailing climate. If you do lots of short journeys in winter, your exhaust will not last more than 3 or 4 years, which could easily be less than 20,000 miles. This is because combustion creates water vapour, which will condense in cold conditions once you switch off your engine. Longer journeys simply mean you do more miles between each 'condensation period', and warmer climates mean that condensation is less likely. and the diesels range from 150-300k + with no problems yet. i suspect that diesel fuel doesn't have the same problems that gas engines experience, but i don't really know. I do not know if there is a difference between petrol and diesel engines on exhaust lifetime, but I suspect on diesels they would last longer because they are 'lean-burn' engines - which in turn means a lower concentration of water vapour, hence less likely to form condensation. But I could be wrong on this point. all numbers are in US miles. What exactly is a US mile??? Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fire ants was RE: [Biofuel] US Blocks Phase Out of Lindane in North America
We don't have fire ants here in the UK, but we do have ants. I have found that one of the more effective treatments against them is plain old boiling water, applied to their nest in sufficient quantities. This also works well against certain garden weeds. It may not be a totally energy efficient way of dealing with them, but it means that no nasty chemicals are used and afterwards I have no worries about letting my young daughter run around in the garden. Besides, I don't actually _know_ how much energy is used in manufacturing the nasty chemical alternatives, it may well be more than is used in a kettle of boiling water. I wouldn't underestimate the stress-relieving aspects of kicking the tops off the mounds - a little bit of stress relief (carefully applied) can improve your quality of life far more than the ants can degrade it. After all, removing ants is just one means of achieving the former, not an end in itself. In the same way, some people drive inefficient vehicles and degrade the environment in many other ways, because they believe it will enhance their quality of life. So enhancing quality of life through such 'unorthodox' means also reducing the pressure to degrade the environment. I personally remove dandelions from my lawn by hand for exactly this reason. Donald --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too live with fire ants, as I live in Texas and no, I don't use any pesticides. I do make the fire ants work for me, by chasing the mounds with the garden hose. This has really improved my top soil. Kicking the top of the mound works well too, especially in winter and is a great stress relief. That said, I don't want the little monsters in my home. Fire ants don't like cinnamon. Cinnamon sells at Sam's club for $3.18 for 22 ounces so it is not real expensive to use. Diatomaceous Earth also helps to control them. If an ant hill gets too close to the house and won't move away, 3 to 4 applications of urine from a male that eats meat will kill the hill completely. The early morning variety of urine is the most effective. I have not heard of using cedar to control fire ants, does it work well except for the mess? I have a few applications that might work for me better than what I am using, such as the fire wood storage. Do you just run the cedar through a chipper shreddar then put down? Bright Blessings, Kim At 05:59 AM 10/8/2004, you wrote: Please suggest a way to control fire ants. We have not used pesticides for years and continue to put Cedarcide (chopped us cedar around our doors to keep them at bay. This rarely lasts very long and is big bulky mess for tracking into the building. Thanks for suggestions. Peggy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Keeping older vehicles on the road - was Re: [Biofuel] good reading
There is a point that's worth repeating here regarding older vehicles: Most cars use more energy in the manufacture than they do in fuel consumption over their entire lives - so as a rule the best way to reduce the energy balance of vehicles is to make them last as long as you can. If your concern is just the energy use, then try and keep the older vehicles working as long as possible. They are not quite as efficient, but the excess energy use is far less than that used to manufacture a new car you might replace it with. Also, keeping an older vehicle on the road is a great way of providing local employment - much better than just buying a new vehicle and using loads of primary resources. OK, the same may not be true for some of the exhaust pipe pollutants, as older cars are often a lot more polluting (due to lack of catalytic converters, a less optimised combustion process etc). So while in rural areas these pollutants may not be seen to be a major problem, in urban areas they certainly will be. Donald --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- tommy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a good reading piece if your wondering about why it's pretty much a waste to try to get those Cheap running junkers working and focus on new tech engines. Thank you for posting that link. I enjoyed reading it. But I disagree with your conclusions. As nice as a new diesel is I am still going to keep my 23 year old audi diesel. Once you consider that I only have about $500 into it not counting fuel or oil changes and that it gets 50 mpg I don't see how the new ones are any better. But of course they're much fancier, with all the electronics and latest options. The new ones will also blow mine off the road for speed and power. But those don't concern me. I know that for a lot of people they are very important, and those are the ones that I would try to talk into getting a newer one. The old ones also use very simple technology, which for me means that I can fix it all myself without taking it in. Not including the injection pump, of course. (Though I do have the computer scanners to be able to do everything on the newer ones as well, but that's cause it's what I do. Just saying that most people can work on the older ones and the newer ones become harder and more complicated.) I'm all for diesels. I love them. And the new ones have a lot of nice advantages. I really wish that with 20+ years of technology advancements it would have that much better fuel mileage than mine, but they just don't. I just don't see all that as a reason to abandon the old ones. If I can at all I will drive these old tech ones for many years more. The only thing I see stopping me is them getting wrecked. Just my opinion, of course. Erik This tech is what the Big fuel petro industrial fuel suppliers will get the gov to back instead of bio-fuel, keeping themselves in the loop http://www.boschusa.com/dieselvoice.pdf __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
Thanks for your replies to this query - and apologies for not responding sooner, I've been away for a week so only just been able to read your replies. I think the major issue I had missed that is relevant is dfference in employment generation between PV solar panels and biofuels - taking into consideration the local skills that are available, it's probably fairly unlikely that remote villagers will have skills at running complex electrical systems. So that would tip the balance in favour of biofuels, which would not require a significant amount of external input. And PV systems are unlikely to generate significant local employment - which if employment is generally high in the area, would not be a problem but this is often not the case in such rural locations. Of course you are absolutely correct that what people want is a fridge and a television, not electricity per se - that is just a convenient way of fulfilling the requirements, with an easy path to expansion. Having said that, certain countries (particularly in Asia) were poor until a few decades ago, but have made a deliberate effort to become technologically savvy - and have become richer as a result. So there is a good argument in favour of giving remote villagers the skills that will enable them to participate in a high-tech world. This is of course a slow process, and if done wrongly can of course lead to environmental disasters on the way (I think of China and its big dams here as an example). Technology, as with so many things, can be both good and bad depending on how it is used. As an aside, I am puzzled as to why there is so much emphasis being placed on the Hydrogen Economy at the moment, especially by the US government. Hydogen is just a way of storing and transporting energy, just as are biofuels. OK, I realise that fuel cells can theoretically deliver a greater whole-cycle efficiency than biofuels, but it seems to me that a lot of money is being spent on something that probably won't give us a cost-effective solution for at least 20 years - given that there are still a large number of technical hurdles without totally satisfactory solutions. On the other hand, biofuel technology is pretty mature - most of it is at least 100 years old - and is available now. Biofuels could be used on a very wide scale without making any major changes to the infrastructure, such as the supply chain. While it does make sense to fund research into technology that one day may be even better, it seems that this is a poor excuse for not promoting technologies that can provide real benefits today. I do sometimes wonder whether it's more about 'image' - in other words, talking about Hydrogen is trendy, in a way that for example biodiesel is not. Donald --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donald (and all), I certainly don't have all the answers (maybe none), but it is a complex topic, and I can certainly muddy the waters a bit more. Comments inserted below. Donald Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite connections to the internet these days!). This would be a light load and not include industrial use nor electrical heating/cooking. Let's think about the loads a bit, particularly refrigeration. In this case, we don't really need to store electricity, but coolth. So one approach would be to develop a solar-powered icebox. Have the PV panels run a conventional refrigeration unit when the sun is shining to make ice in the top of the icebox. A sensor can control a fan to pull air through the ice into the refrigerator when required to maintain temperature. Some electricity is still required for the fan (the sensor could be a simple bimetallic switch), but much less than for the compressor, so that would reduce electrical storage requirements significantly. So I will propose two solutions, both of which are used in various places: 1) Grow an oil crop, use it to power a diesel generator 2) Install photovoltaic solar panels and use a battery system to store the energy overnight Now I'm trying to get an understanding of the pros and cons of these two approaches, and which would be better for a particular location. The issues I have thought of so far are the following: -- Photovoltaics and batteries
[biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite connections to the internet these days!). This would be a light load and not include industrial use nor electrical heating/cooking. So I will propose two solutions, both of which are used in various places: 1) Grow an oil crop, use it to power a diesel generator 2) Install photovoltaic solar panels and use a battery system to store the energy overnight Now I'm trying to get an understanding of the pros and cons of these two approaches, and which would be better for a particular location. The issues I have thought of so far are the following: -- Photovoltaics and batteries are expensive in terms of capital outlay, whereas biofuels are cheap to 'install'. Photovoltaic systems have a conversion efficiency of ~10% of the solar energy, whereas biofuels have a conversion efficiency of about 1% Photovoltaic systems require more specialist knowledge to maintain, whereas biofuels require less. Photovoltaics require low labour input once they are installed, whereas biofuels require planting, harvesting, processing etc.. Photovoltaic systems can store only small amounts of energy over short timescales, whereas you can store large quantities of oil for a long time Photovoltaics make less sense when sunshine levels are highly unpredictable, whereas biofuel crops are not significantly affected by a few gloomy days Photovoltaics require less land to install than oil crops, because of their higher conversion efficiency. -- I realise that this is an oversimplification of the issues, and I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding of the secondary issues. So my specific questions are: 1) What are the implications of manufacturing Solar collectors, batteries, electronic control equipment and so forth in terms of energy use, toxic materials (e.g. lead in batteries), sustainability? How does this compare with manufacturing a diesel generating system? 2) Biofuels are often produced from crops that are grown in an unsustainable manner. What are the effects on biodiversity of this? How can this be counteracted? Are there any comparable environmental issues in the manufacture of solar systems? 3) Do the levels of expertise required to install and maintain a solar system make it inappropriate for use in remote villages? 4) Am I correct in assuming that the best (cheapest over all) solution for a Diesel generator in such situations is to use SVO (straight vegetable oil) with a preheating system, rather than converting it to biodiesel? 5) What are the effects on electricity usage patterns for each type of supply? For example, if people know that their battery system can only store a fixed amount that won't be replenished until the next day, are they more efficiency conscious than if they know their supply won't be replenished until next year's harvest? My gut feeling is that due to the higher conversion efficiency of solar panels, these would make a better overall solution for providing electricity than growing biofuels, with less environmental impact overall. However the high capital cost may rule this solution out for smaller villages. (Of course if you are using the energy for transport, then biofuels are much better because the energy can easily be stored and transported over long timescales. But that is not what I'm interested in here). Does anyone have any other information, opinions, experience of these types of systems? Have I overlooked any significant arguments on either side? I may soon have an opportunity to visit a remote solar installation that is backed up with a Diesel generator (as far as I know using petrodiesel) so wish to find out as much as possible beforehand. Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives:
RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use
--- Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does a 2 way catalytic converter have any effect on NOx, specifically with biodiesel usage? I am sure you see what I am getting at. NOx emissions combined with high ambient VOCs are very problematic for urban areas (specifically Atlanta, GA). In order to be able to really push biodiesel usage, the NOx rise must be addressed. No, it will have no effect. Therefore, this rise must be combatted at source, by improving the combustion process. This is one of the downsides of Diesel engines over petrol engines. = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use
--- Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can NOX emission increases from the use of biodiesel be successfully dealt with (at least brought back down to baseline) using a catalytic converter (in the event a vehicle uses sulfur free b100 only) ? The short answer - no. Petrol (gasoline) engines have a 3 way catalytic converter which can get rid of NOx, but this only works if there is no oxygen left in the exhaust. For this reason a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and oxygen is required. Diesel engines are lean-burn engines, which means that they have far more air present than a stoichiometric mix, and hence there is oxygen left in the exhaust. If a 3-way catalytic converter were fitted, it would actually combine the oxygen left with nitrogen and produce _more_ NOx emissions. For this reason, Diesel engines are fitted with 2-way catalytic converters, which are able to break down unburnt hydrocarbons very effectively. This is therefore unaffected by whether you are using petrodiesel or biodiesel. I'm not sure what the third catalyst in a 3-way CC does - it's been a few years since I studied engine operation! Hope that helps, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Petrol Station Leukemia risk
Just found this interesting article: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040819/12/f0pow.html which discusses a study that indicates an increased risk of Leukemia for children living near a petrol station. It suggests that it's due to the benzene in the petrol. Yet another nail in the coffin of mineral fuels maybe? Or perhaps more like another growth ring on the tree with which the coffin will eventually be made. Full text below. Donald Leukaemia risk for kids living near petrol stops By Gaia Vince Children who live next to a petrol station are four times more likely to develop acute leukaemia than other children in the same area, suggests new research. The small study, carried out at four sites in France, looked at 280 children with leukaemia and a control group of 285 children, all younger than 15 years. The childrenåâs mothers were given a questionnaire relating to their lifestyle. The researchers found that children living next door to a petrol station or automotive garage had a quadrupled risk of leukaemia. And the risk of developing acute non-lymphoblastic leukaemia was seven times greater compared with children who lived in the same area, but not next to a petrol station. åãI was very surprised that living near a petrol station had such a high risk,åä says Jacqueline Clavel from the National Institute of Health and Medical Research in Villejuif, France, who led the study. åãThe longer the child had lived in the vicinity of the petrol station, the higher their relative risk was. Prenatal exposure also raised the relative risk.åä Rubber factory Clavel suspects benzene in petrol caused the rise in cancer risk, although she says further studies need to be done. åãThe link between benzene and leukaemia has been shown for workers in a rubber factory, but the benzene levels are very high in that instance. Exposure to benzene is much lower for children near a petrol station, so it was surprising,åä she told New Scientist . Richard McNally, from Cancer Research UK's paediatric and familial cancer research group, says that while the findings are interesting, they should be treated with caution. åãThe study examined a relatively small number of leukaemia cases, and the fact that it was based on interviews leaves it open to influences such as inaccuracy in the recollections of the mothers interviewed,åä he says. Although it is the most common childhood cancer in the western world, acute leukaemia is rare, with four new cases per 100,000 children each year. The majority of cases occur in two-year-old infants, but more than 80 per cent of children make a full recovery. Journal reference: Occupational and Environmental Medicine (vol 61, p 773) = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] High altitude diesel issues emissions
Here is my understanding of the issues surrounding Diesel engines when used at altitude. A few years ago I took a trip in the mountains in Bolivia, which involved being driven through some very spectacular mountain scenary. At one point we were climbing up a hill and I was very aware that the vehicle seemed to have very little power - not like it had been the previous day. I hadn't realised until then that we were at approximately 5000m (yes, metres not feet!) of altitude, and so I now had reason to think about the whole issue of engines, turbochargers and altitude. At the end of the day it's all about how much oxygen you can get into the cylinder. If you turbocharge the engine, you get more, and if you're at altitude, you get less. If you use a turbocharger at altitude, the two effects partially cancel each other out. But basically, for a given engine and a given fuel, you will always get less power at higher altitude than at sea level, for this reason. Changing fuel will not be able to 'counteract' the altitude, nor will fitting a turbocharger - you will only get the same benefits you would get anyway at sea level. (These may of course prove to be useful benefits at high altitude if the engine would otherwise be underpowered, for example). Of course, a consequence of less oxygen in the cylinder is that the maximum amount of fuel you can burn will be less (this is why you get less power!). Depending on how sophisticated your injection system is, it may not be aware of the fact that there is less oxygen, and may pump too much fuel - with the result that you get lots of soot and incomplete combustion. If your injection system does not know about the altitude, you may be able to adjust it to reduce the maximum fuel charge it delivers. Alternatively, if you don't press the accelerator pedal so far you will reduce the fuel delivered, hence reducing the soot. The only way to get lots of power at high altitude is to fit a bigger engine to compensate. This will then be seriously overpowered when used at sea level. This is one of the drawbacks of internal combustion engines, and they generally need to be set up correctly for the altitude they will be driving at. I'm not an expert on fuel injection systems, but I wouldn't be surprised if modern systems sold in mountainous regions had a means of automatically reducing the maximum fuel delivery when at altitude. As an aside, can anyone tell me what the air pressure is at 5000m? There were some volcanic steam vents in this area and I was surprised that I could put my hand in the steam without it scalding - I guess this means that the water was boiling at around 50-60 degrees, rather than 100. Hope this helps, Donald --- Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a HP issue as well. If I can increase the HP, I can lean it out a little, so that I don't get as much soot. The Diesel engine is naturally aspirated engine, it only has a compression near 14 ( normal for this engine type ), with the thin air (above 5000 ft ), and lower O2 of the altitude - so, the combination of natural aspiration, low compression, thin air, and lower O2 is a killer no matter what fuel I use. I actually was talking to a State Diesel Emissions Tech, and he liked BioDiesel, but, where it can be found in the state, it is only a BD20 blend, and he didn't think that BD100, would solve my issues even if I could get some ( or had the ability to make it - still looking for parts and a good source of oil ) I have already lost 15% to 25% of the rated HP ( 98 HP at sea level ), even with the injectors near full open ( or is it the metering pump that measures how much fuel is injected? ). So I'm trying to figure out low cost ways of raising the O2 levels to kill the soot, or raising the HP so I can cut lean out the fuel to kill the soot levels. I'm getting about 20 mpg, for my Land Cruiser as it is, which is not bad at all for it's age ( 1985 model ), it's the engine model that is causing the issues, because it just does not breath well over 3000 ft. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Christopher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 16:28 Subject: RE: [biofuel] High altitude diesel issues emissions Hi Greg: If you try biodiesel you'll get far less soot. regards, Chris -Original Message- From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] High altitude diesel issues emissions Turbocharging will cause steeper emissions requirements ( even less soot allowable ). All I have is a naturally aspirated engine, putting a turbo on it, will cost almost as much as the Land Cruiser itself, and I don't have any near that kind of money. The cost to gain ratio is too high, the turbo's for the engine would not give all that big a difference, in the horsepower,
Re: [biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ??
pH is the negative logarithm of hydrogen ion concentration. Pure water exists mostly as H2O, but a very small amount of it (approx. one part in 10 million) dissociates into a hydroxide ion OH- and a hydrogen ion H+. If you multiply the H+ concentration and the OH- concentration in an aqueous solution, the product is a constant, called the dissociation constant, which for water has a value of about 10 ^ -14. So pure water has an OH- conc. of 10 ^ -7 and also an H+ conc. of 10 ^ -7. Since the negative log of 10 ^ -7 is 7, it's called pH7. OK so far? Here's the interesting part -- if you add H+ (acid) to an aqueous solution, it will combine with OH- (making water) as required to keep the product of OH- and H+ concentrations at a constant 10 ^ -14. At pH6, for example, H+ is 10 ^ -6 and OH- is 10 ^ -8. Similarly, adding OH- (base) will cause some of the H+ to be scarfed up. At pH9, the OH- concentration is 10 ^ -5 (100X its value in pure water), driving the H+ concentration down to 10 ^ -9. If I remember correctly there is a slight proviso to this - this is all correct at 25 degrees Celcius. Measures of pH I believe are normally standardised to this so you can largely ignore this. However if you heat water up then the product of the OH- and H+ concentrations will increase, and so technically the pH (and pOH, which refers to the concentration of OH- ions) will decrease. I am not sure how this affects standard means of measuring pH though, as they will be designed to be accurate at 25 degrees, and may or may not be accurate if the temperature is significantly different from this. One of the effects of this is that hot water conducts electricity a lot better than cold water, as there are more ions present to allow conduction. Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hi Keith, Yes, the list archives does. :-) First though, there are quite a lot of diesel hybrids, in things like buses, not cars. And of course trains. snip Thanks for your reply - it's now put me much more in the picture. Now I thought I was so cynical about this world that I wouldn't fail to spot the obvious political motives for decisions that don't seem to make much sense - and I totally failed to spot this one, I had presumed there was some technological reason for it not being much more common. Perhaps that's why I am a technologist rather than a politician :-) Having said that, most of the articles you point to do seem to be largely based on US political decisions, and I don't think I had ever really assumed that Diesel hybrids would ever come out of the US - purely because Diesel fuel is not commonly used there in private cars. Diesel engines are very common here in Europe, and a quick glance at the technical data for new Diesel engines shows them to be a lot more efficient even than my 1996 engine - there's a lot of exciting stuff going on in Diesel engine technology at the moment (and biodiesel/SVO use is just a part of this). I suspect these improvements haven't run out of steam yet either, and over the next 10 years we will see further refinements. Given this, and the fact that petrol-based hybrid technology is reaching a good level of maturity, it seems to me that to produce a Diesel hybrid should be almost trivially easy to do - there is no technology involved that hasn't reached a high level of maturity when used in a different configuration. And I don't see there being a marketing barrier either, at least in the UK. Running cost is a very important consideration when choosing a car, and I would have thought people who choose a Toyota Prius or Honda Insight (as far as I know the only commercially available hybrids marketed in the UK at the moment) would prefer to decrease their running costs even further, given the option. I had not considered hybrid use in buses or trains, but I am reminded of one electric bus project in Camden, London (if I remember correctly). These are purely driven by electricity, and the batteries are topped up every time the bus reaches the depot. This isn't long enough to fully recharge them, but as buses run a fixed route it is easy to predict energy use reasonably accurately and fit batteries sufficient to last the day with top up charging on a cycle that is dictated by the timetable. So far so good. However there was one crucial detail that was overlooked - namely that not all the heat 'wasted' by an internal combustion engine is actually wasted, as it is used to heat the interior of the bus in winter. Highly efficient electric motors of course do not generate enough 'waste' heat. The solution? Diesel-powered heaters were fitted for the winter months! Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hi Erik, --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peugeot-Citroen is actually developing a diesel hybrid, and there is information to be found saying that diesel hybrid is the best currently useable technology. Here are some links that I found on google: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_volkswagen_tests_hybrid/ http://www.all4engineers.com/preview.php?cms=lng=enalloc=1id=2112 this is a motorcycle, but very interesting: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=228382fSectionId=896fSetId=381 http://www.hybridcars.com/news/citroen_hybrid.html here's a report recommending diesel-hybrids over fuel cells, but it's put out by the lead-acid battery consortium, so they have a vested interest in the one over the other (tho at least they cite their sources): http://www.alabc.org/2003_newsletters/KPv1_03.PDF http://www.bucknell.edu/communications/releases/Archives%202003/2003-04%20fall%20semester/hybrid%20vehicles%208-26-03.htm sorry about the length of some of those links. you'll just have to cut and paste them back together to take a look at the longer ones. erik Thanks for the links - I must admit I hadn't done a very thorough search of what's currently in development (as opposed to already in the market), but if these sites are to believed then Diesel hybrids are just around the corner. I hope these projects make it into the market and don't get their funding cut at the last minute. Interestingly, there seems to be a definite split between the hydrogen power and fuel cells will save the world community and the the world can be saved by more intelligent use of current technology, such as hybrid technology community. In the latter I would also put increased use of public transport as being a core aim. I'm not sure how much of this is down to vested interests putting across their point of view. All the talk of hydrogen power to me seems a long way off making any useful contribution, as with current technology most of it will be produced using non-renewable electricity. However it's seen as being sexier - maybe the hydrogen proponents have done a better job of marketing to alter public perception? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
I have a question about the currently available hybrid vehicles which I have been wondering about for a while. It seems that all the hybrid vehicles currently available have an electric motor connected in varying configurations with a petrol (gasoline) engine. My question is, why not a Diesel engine? Given that the aim of a hybrid vehicle is to increase fuel economy, it would seem sensible to choose the most economical internal combustion engine available, however it seems that _none_ of them do - there must be a reason for this, but this reason escapes me. Is it that hybrid vehicles are primarily marketed in the USA, where use of Diesel fuel is not widely accepted for private cars? (European-marketed hybrids are all petrol not diesel too though). Or is it because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, which is already a limitation with heavy batteries? Or maybe because Diesel engines are more expensive, and having a Diesel hybrid would be too expensive on capital outlay to be acceptable to the consumer (despite what should be excellent running costs)? Does anyone know the answer, or have any insight (!) into this? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
--- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Fuel purchased yesterday in Edmonton (Shell) gave 56 miles per gallon. 2. BUT fuel purchased today in Idaho Falls (Phillips, from Utah refinery) gave 63 miles per gallon. The difference here is much larger than the expected variation due to systematic or random errors. I am skeptical as to whether one fill up can really give you an accurate answer, as it will vary anyway according to exactly how you drive, prevailing wind velocity, ambient temperature and possibly humidity among other factors. I normally see a significant variability in my fuel economy. I suspect the random errors are larger than you imagine. How did you measure it? Having said that, I would expect there to be differences in economy from different suppliers (even from the same supplier on different occasions), so a more long-term measurement would undoubtedly pick up any trend. Have you made any modifications to your TDI to acheive these results. I have an '03 Beetle TDI, and the best I have been able to manage so far is 51.2 mpg. If there is a way to improve on this, please share. I think there is also a natural variability between supposedly identical vehicles - due to manufacturing tolerances in the engine, different amounts of engine wear, tyre wear and pressure, type of lubricating oil used and so forth. But probably the biggest difference is in driving style. When I measure my fuel economy (over a full tank) I instinctively know if it's going to be good or bad, according to how I've driven and also the types of journey I've made. For example I typically get 45mpg but it is normally anywhere between 40 and 50. Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Historically, democracies have not attacked one another. That may be history pretty soon . . . Since when have America and the various European nations been democracies? The form of 'democracy' that exists is just an illusion created by the ruling elite, to control the masses and stop them revolting. If you don't believe me, just look at the last presidential election in the US, and the way the European Union is handling the issue of Software Patents. Both would show that the wishes of the population are totally irrelevant to the outcome. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
--- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K Please note my following comments refer primarily to the _political_ systems in place, not individuals from each region of the world! I think we can safely say that Europe and America have been at war with each other for a very long time - mainly over trade issues, but in the bigger picture over cultural and environmental issues too. From the European side of the equation, America is seen as acting primarily to exert and maintain its power over the rest of the world through its de facto monopolies and trade policies - which serve only to enrich America even further. America's (i.e. governmental, not individual Americans') attitude to environmental issues (such as the Kyoto protocol) suggest that they don't care about the rest of the world. The fact that America goes its own way in so many areas of technology (mobile phone standards, NTSC vs PAL in TV standards for example) is cited as evidence of protectionist policies that effectively only allow American companies to compete in the particular market sector. The way contracts have been awarded in Iraq following the war has also raised questions about 'jobs for the boys' as the large American companies have ended up winning the contracts, by and large. As far as oil and energy are concerned, here in the UK most people do see 'the Middle East situation' as being largely as a result of America's quest to control the oil reserves, but with Europe also playing their part. If you look at each nation's energy consumption per capita, America uses roughly twice as much as European nations (source: the Economist, I could dig out detailed figures). Other nations generally come much lower, although there are exceptions. This is often considered to be evidence of America's profligacy. Other considerations include the pump price of motor fuel. If crude oil prices double, the percentage increase in pump prices is much higher in America than in Europe, simply because Americans pay vastly less fuel tax than Europeans. So here there is much less of a focus on oil prices than in America, although there are groups who used recent high prices to threaten strike action and the government eventually backed down from a proposed tax increase on fuel. Because Europe is very congested, high fuel prices serve a very important secondary purpose in discouraging people from over-using their cars. If the prices were to drop to American prices, people would be happy for about a day before they realised that everyone was using their cars more and the road system would grind to a total halt. Most would then ask for the prices to go back up! My impression is that individual Americans come up with a vast number of great ideas, but are trapped in a political system that doesn't allow most of them to thrive. Big businesses with vested interests see to it that the government at the time (whether Republican or Democrat) never implement any policies that would upset them. By big business I mean companies like the oil companies, Microsoft, the motor manufacturers, even Coca Cola and McDonalds. The political parties both have too much to lose by upsetting these companies. I'd be interested on the American perspective of the above issues - how do Americans perceive Europeans over the above issues? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Changing lifestyles (was 'Price of Fuel')
Keith, Thanks for your reply to my post. I think when all is said and done, we basically agree on the essentials. I am a natural skeptic about human nature, and although I _do_ see many encouraging signs, I am all too aware that what I see is filtered through my own experiences. The fact is that the circles I move in will tend to have similar experiences to myself, and not be representative of the wider world. Where I do think people are _very_ different is in what they have experienced in their lives, what they have grown up with, what their education systems have taught them to believe and what they consider to be 'the norm'. I am often reminded of this by my wife, who is from a different culture and different country from myself. Even subtle nuances of our different native languages can lead to misunderstandings from time to time. But at the end of the day, the way our emotional responses to situations works is the same - well as similar as can be across the gender divide! That's what I really meant when I said that people are the same the world over. There are variations of course, but they are small compared to the cultural differences. It's many years since I studied Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but from what I can remember the idea is that we can put our needs in descending order of importance. So for example food is probably pretty high on the list, as is clothing. Friendships will come fairly high too, but owning a container ship probably doesn't even register as a need for most people. Producing, consuming and promoting biodiesel as an alternative to petrodiesel will come somewhere on the list, and for most people it is pretty low at the moment. My comments about Joe Public are largely based on people not seeing the need to change their ways. Their education system, their own experiences, their culture have not taught them any reason to see it as important. It's not their fault, and I don't mean to insult the intelligence of the masses. But I do think, as with most things, the most important aspect of encouraging people to give up 'bad' lifestyles is to help them become aware of why they are 'bad', and to help them see that there _are_ better alternatives. I think that is what journeytoforever.org is trying to do, and I am favourably impressed with how high a ranking it gets. The other side of this is knowing who your enemy is - there are huge industries with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, such as the oil giants, the road construction industry, the motor manufacturers. They have huge marketing budgets to encourage us to be irresponsible with the environment because that is how they make their money. Their messages are hammered home to us wherever we look, on the highways, on the television (that's partly why I don't have television), in magazines and so forth. I do think most people don't stop to question the world they live in very deeply, because they have been sold a lifestyle which is comfortable, and their highest needs are, on a basic level, being met by what they have been sold. Please feel free to quote what I said about the political importance of biodiesel - I hope it can help in a small way to spread the word. I came to the Journey To Forever website to figure if it would be practical for me to do a home brew of biodiesel (it's not at the moment unfortunately) but have learnt a whole lot more than I ever thought I would. It's about learning to have my eyes open to the possibilities - in my own journey through life. Regards and best wishes, Donald P.S. We probably are a marginal bunch of freaks as you say, but even most mainstream ideas started small originally. I bet you 99% of the population fall into this category in one way or another :-) --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Donald I much agree with what you say, but not about Joe Public who doesn't know any better and doesn't want to. Ending with this: I think you will find that people are the same the world over - most people don't care at all, and those that do will need a certain amount of persuading before they change their ways. That's not what I've found, nor what many other people have found - quite the opposite, and that goes back a long way. I know it's easy to get that view of what folks are like, or even difficult not to, especially it seems when you live in the industrialised (developed) world, and indeed it's easily demonstrated, but the proofs of it usually turn out to be self-fulfilling prophecies. It's just as easy to prove the opposite, and to make it stick, furthermore. Most people do care, about a lot more than just themselves and their own immediate interests and gratifications. But so often it's frustrated, bottled up, no outlet. Even so they often go about their lives in a much more caring and considerate way than probably even they realise. Reagan and Thatcher didn't do a lot of good, along with Milton Friedman et al beating
RE: [biofuel] please help...
Dinodiesel in my part of the UK is currently 80.9 pence per litre - that's about USD1.49 per litre. Commercial biodiesel is about 78pence per litre, or USD1.44 so slightly cheaper. That takes into account a 20 pence per litre tax advantage in favour of biodiesel, so the base price is therefore about 17 pence per litre more expensive. However I believe there is currently significantly more demand than supply for biodiesel, so the suppliers can basically charge the same as dinodiesel. I suspect that when biodiesel becomes more mainstream here, there will be economies of scale that will bring the price down. However this will be counterbalanced by the fact that there is only a limited supply of waste oil - currently the cheapest source. I don't know how much the industry would need to expand for this to become an issue. --- Richard U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: baketampangetko does anyone knows literature/published articles about comparative prices of biodiesel and petroleum diesel? need it for my school research.. thank you very much Of course homebrew would depend on many local factors, but This might be an opportunity to start an informal survey of commercially available prices. In Raleigh, NC: $1.74 for B20 from BP $1.64 for 'Dino' diesel from Texaco Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: please help...
It's similar in the UK - places advertise 'biodiesel'. When you look closer, it's B5. OK that's 150% better than B2, but still not exactly biodiesel. Oh, and they charge 2p per litre more for it, despite it being no more expensive for the garage to buy. However B2 is significantly different in its lubricity, so in terms of engine wear it's still worth having, although possibly not worth paying 5c per gallon more for. --- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We only have one station in the area that is selling biodiesel at all, and that is B2. Yes, B2, not B20 with a typo. They charge about 5 cents US per gallon more than straight dino diesel. They have big signs advertising that they have biodiesel, then a very small indication on the pump that it is B2. I'm sure most of those who buy there thinking that they are doing something good don't know what the B2 means, and think that they are running B100. Just a marketing ploy, from what I can tell. Of course, a marketing ploy that increases awareness of biodiesel is better than most, and even if we all just drive on B2, it's still a start. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Richard U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: baketampangetko does anyone knows literature/published articles about comparative prices of biodiesel and petroleum diesel? need it for my school research.. thank you very much Of course homebrew would depend on many local factors, but This might be an opportunity to start an informal survey of commercially available prices. In Raleigh, NC: $1.74 for B20 from BP $1.64 for 'Dino' diesel from Texaco Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Price of Fuel
--- Lyle Estill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, I watch the contributions fly by from various subscribers reporting their fuel prices to the student who needs the data for a project. That's wonderful. And it seems there is a sense that biodiesel needs to compete with regular diesel on price. I get that a lot at Piedmont Biofuels, and I thought I would toss this out to the list: Diesel in North Carolina right now is about 1.69 a gallon. At 3.50 a gallon for B100, biodiesel is a bargain. I agree with you on this - here in the UK we do pay for our healthcare more at the pump than in the US, but your point about $3.50 per gallon being a bargain (about half the UK price) stands, as you need to consider the _system_ costs. These will include a lot of things that Joe Public won't even think about. As a society we have decided that I will pay my own health care tab for my asthmatic children. I do not pay for health care at the pump. If I did, if we decided that petroleum producers were accountable for the health effects of their products, add a buck per gallon. This concept is commonplace in cultures where the government pays for health care. Go buy a litre of diesel in Canada sometime. Or any other civilized society, for that matter. As a society we have decided to pay for the security of our oil supply on April 15th--rather than at the pump. Even in peacetime, Uncle Sam maintains a huge (and expensive) military presence in the Persian Gulf. Forget Saddam for a moment (we all know that Operation Iraqi Freedom has nothing to do with oil. We are there because Saddam is a bad guy. He even tortures prisoners and such). Even in peacetime we provide fighter jet escorts to tankers leaving the gulf. If we asked the importers of petroleum diesel to pay the tab for that--rather than paying in our taxes, add a buck a gallon. Suddenly 3.50 a gallon saves you money and the price objection goes away... The problem here is that you are assuming that individuals actually care and think about this. The fact that you and I are on the biofuels mailing list shows that we are very rare beings - we actually think and care about a lot of things. I bet you care about other issues unrelated to biofuels too - I certainly do - and are probably on a number of different mailing lists and subscribe to a number of different magazines that reflect what you care about. The problem is, probably about 99% of the population only care about one thing - what they _think_ they are paying to maintain their lifestyle. If only we could get them to care about what they are _actually_ paying, that would be a major step forward, and that's before we even try to get people to change their lifestyles. And what people think they are paying is the pump price of their fuel, in this case. Do you ever work out the cost per mile of a journey? What does that cost include? Does it include the cost of servicing your vehicle, divided by the number of mile between services? Does it include wear and tear on the tyres? Cost of windscreen wash? Antifreeze? Replacing the battery every few years? Does it include tax, insurance, depreciation in any way? Does it include wear and tear on the road surface? Does it include the cost of clearing up after accidents? Does it include any healthcare costs? Does it include costs associated with washing/cleaning your vehicle? I could go on almost ad infinitum, but I bet for most people the only cost they include is the fuel. Most people don't even care about what goes on in Iraq, as long as their perceived cost of transport is low. So in the bigger picture, of course the pump price of the fuel is not very significant. But for the majority of users, it is the single most important factor in deciding which fuel to use, if given a choice. If it can't compete at the pump on price, very few people will buy it. Now that biodiesel prices in the UK are similar to dinodiesel prices as a result of a tax concession, the rate of usage is increasing rapidly - and there's not even a significant cost _advantage_ at the moment. I think you will find that people are the same the world over - most people don't care at all, and those that do will need a certain amount of persuading before they change their ways. I started buying biodiesel for environmental reasons, but I now think by far the most important reason is political - the environmental benefits seem small compared to the political benefits to me at the moment. Donald Lyle Estill V.P. Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-545-2551 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [biofuel] Preserving the harvest
--- Jamie Ballou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may seem like a silly question to some, but how did you measure the energy output of your fridge for 24 hours? Jamie E. Ballou Endocrinology Lab Assistant San Diego Zoo Center for Reproduction of Endangered Species You can buy plug-in electricity consumption meters, at least here in the UK (although they are hard to find). The one I have borrowed tells you instantaneous volts, amps, power factor and power. It can measure the total energy consumed over a period of time, and tell you how long it has been measuring for. You can even program cost information into it (two rates at programmable times of day) and it will tell you how much money you've spent! I had an electricity bill that was higher than I expected, and I used this to find out roughly how much various things are costing. The surprises are in the large number of small items that still consume significant power when switched off. For example my PC monitor uses 18W even when it's switched off! Power supply transformers (for loudspeakers, telephone chargers, and various computer appliances) seem to consume around 7W per item - so with something like 10 of these around the house this is a significant amount of energy being totally wasted. They barely use any more when they are switched on, as a general rule. So I have tried to run as many of these as possible from one socket that I can switch off at the wall when not in use. These items probably are costing me around GBP3 - 4 (USD5 - 9) per month for doing nothing at all useful. The fridge is costing around GBP2 per month. For a total bill around GBP10 per month averaged over the year (I have compact fluorescent lamps throughout the house and gas heating), this is a large proportion of the total. = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Preserving the harvest
Not really familiar with surge protectors, but it may depend on the individual model. The easiest way to find out is to turn the protector off and see if you still have volts coming out the other end. However, I would have thought that it would turn the power off, as turning off the protection without turning off the device makes little sense. But then again, making little sense is not an obstacle to making a lot of money selling a product that _seems_ to do something useful! Donald --- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is getting off the original topic, but you triggered a thought when you mentioned how much power your monitor uses when off. I have surge protectors on all of my electronic equipment. When things are off, I also turn the surge protectors off. I have assumed that this is blocking the flow of electricity to the appliance, and therefore saving this energy. Does anyone know if this is true. It makes sense to me, but that doesn't always mean truth. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Donald Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jamie Ballou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may seem like a silly question to some, but how did you measure the energy output of your fridge for 24 hours? Jamie E. Ballou Endocrinology Lab Assistant San Diego Zoo Center for Reproduction of Endangered Species You can buy plug-in electricity consumption meters, at least here in the UK (although they are hard to find). The one I have borrowed tells you instantaneous volts, amps, power factor and power. It can measure the total energy consumed over a period of time, and tell you how long it has been measuring for. You can even program cost information into it (two rates at programmable times of day) and it will tell you how much money you've spent! I had an electricity bill that was higher than I expected, and I used this to find out roughly how much various things are costing. The surprises are in the large number of small items that still consume significant power when switched off. For example my PC monitor uses 18W even when it's switched off! Power supply transformers (for loudspeakers, telephone chargers, and various computer appliances) seem to consume around 7W per item - so with something like 10 of these around the house this is a significant amount of energy being totally wasted. They barely use any more when they are switched on, as a general rule. So I have tried to run as many of these as possible from one socket that I can switch off at the wall when not in use. These items probably are costing me around GBP3 - 4 (USD5 - 9) per month for doing nothing at all useful. The fridge is costing around GBP2 per month. For a total bill around GBP10 per month averaged over the year (I have compact fluorescent lamps throughout the house and gas heating), this is a large proportion of the total. = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Preserving the harvest
--- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you, Keith, for all the suggestions, but what I was trying to get at, is how to evaluate the different methods by the energy used. For example canning needs energy to cook, energy to create the glass jars and new lids every year, as well as space to store the food and empty jars when not in use, so energy to build a bigger home. Freezing needs plastic bags, that are also reusable, and energy to keep the food frozen. Add to this how much nutrition is lost by the processing, which is the best way to preserve food? I have never personally like store bought canned vegetables, so I have never learned to can veggies, but if it is supperior to freezing on both energy usage and nutrition, I might learn. One aspect of this is that if you don't have to do any processing or storing, you will reduce the amount of energy used. This is where growing seasonal vegetables comes in. You arrange your crops such that whatever the season, you will have fresh produce available to you. I'm not familiar with the Texas climate, but it is possible to do this to a large extent here in England, so I would be surprised if it's not possible there. Winter can be a bit harder, but there are plenty of root vegetables that you can simply leave in the ground and they won't go off. In modern societies we are accustomed to having every type of produce available, whatever the time of year. OK the prices might vary a little bit, but availability generally doesn't. This is of course a very recent phenomenon - before the advent of refrigeration people managed to survive the winters in extremely harsh climates, and making do with what was available was a very important part of this. I'm not suggesting you go the whole hog, as if like me you enjoy having a wide choice of food whatever the season then you might consider this too much of a sacrifice. But it's something to think about. You might find for example that with careful planning, you could reduce the amount of food you refrigerate, and potentially use a smaller (hence cheaper on energy) refrigerator. You really need to look at the whole picture, not just the storage aspect. I've just measured the energy consumed by my refrigerator over the last 24 hours, and I'm appalled - and it's supposed to be a fairly energy efficient model. So I guess if you can avoid refrigeration as much as possible this would be a good place to start! = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Question - SVO/biodiesel blend without modification to vehicle?
Here in the UK commercial biodiesel costs about the same as dinodiesel, and I don't have the facilities to produce my own at the moment. So I was wondering about the possibility of using a blend of SVO and biodiesel, in order to reduce my running costs, as SVO should be cheaper than an equivalent amount of biodiesel. Has anyone done this? What ratios have you used? Any problems? I've looked at the journeytoforever.org website and many of the linked articles, and there seems to be a lot of discussion of pure SVO using a dual tank system with preheating, and some discussion of blends of SVO with dinodiesel, but none of a blend of SVO and biodiesel. So my question is, would a blend using biodiesel be any better/worse than a blend using dinodiesel? It seems that viscosity is the main problem with SVO that leads to incomplete combustion and other problems, and with dinodiesel blends a practical limit of 20% seems to be prudent. However as biodiesel has a much better lubricity than dinodiesel, would this make it a better blend? What is the relationship between lubricity and viscosity, or are they totally separate properties? I've been running for about 400 miles now on a blend of dino-diesel and 25% biodiesel without problems, and will shortly up this to 50%. I'm contemplating trying a blend of 20% SVO (of good quality, not WVO) and biodiesel but am not sure if this would be wise. At the moment I do not have the time or the inclination to fit any modifications to my car, although that would be an option for the future. Any recommendations gratefully received. Donald Allwright = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
The situation is similar here in the UK. Basically you have to pay duty on vehicle fuel, even if it's home brewed (can't remember the exact amount off the top of my head), and although the licence is supposed to be easy to obtain it's a definite disincentive to starting up. I'm currently using commercially produced, duty-paid biodiesel but would like to try home production. I'm told that even if you use commercially produced, duty paid biodiesel you are likely to be questioned by the police if they smell 'fish and chips' behind your vehicle, and asked to prove that the duty is paid. So a licence could be a useful document to carry around in your vehicle, as they generally don't ask further questions if you produce it. Easier than remembering to keep all your receipts etc.. --- Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought I would let other counties know how the Australian Government is about to make it illegal to produce biodiesel at home without a license. They are bringing in a fuel excise of Aus$ 0.39 for biodiesel for commercial and home manufacturers. You can read about it more if interested at http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ How they police it will be another matter entirely but it is such a shame to effectively create so many illegal brewers. When alcohol excise was brought in in Australia home brewers were given an exemption. This is another case of Australian laws being non consistent. To make it worse, Natural Gas was given a 20 year excise free period for reasons I don't recall right now. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion?
I am no chemist, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Your suggestion would involve splitting the Carbon-Carbon bonds in the glycerol part of the molecule. This is certainly possible, as it's what happens with catalytic cracking. However if you're doing this to the glycerol part of the molecule you're probably also doing it to the Carbon-Carbon bonds in the fatty acid chains as well. And as the Carbon-Oxygen bonds are generally easier to break, I'm not sure that you could devise a process that didn't just give you a large number of smaller molecules, effectively by smashing the original oil up and hydrogenating it. You would probably just end up with a mixture of volatile short-chain compounds, which you would then need to separate to make use of except as a fuel in itself (more like petrol (gas) than diesel). And in any case I doubt having a catalytic cracker in your kitchen, plus a suitable supply of hydrogen, is a very practical proposition! The beauty of the transesterification process is that it's fairly simple and ends up with exactly what you want - a fuel that you can just pour into an existing vehicle without too much to worry about. Donald --- tomasjkn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello dear fellow biofuelers, I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst. But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :) Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen, this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in reaction... So, any ideas on this?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
