Re: [Biofuel] Okay, This time I really am going to take down the list, , , , but first, please read
I really like this project. "Closing the loop" in agriculture is exactly what I'm trying to do as well. Keep me informed! ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] The Future of the Biofuels mailing list, your input needed.
I also read news here I wouldn't otherwise get. But that depends on the willingness of those who share to continue doing so. Thanks for more than a decade of insight! Eric On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:15 PM, robert rabello rabe...@shaw.ca wrote: Chip, Ditto, I read virtually everything that gets posted but seldom reply as I do not have much to contribute at this moment in time. Nevertheless, I would miss the list if it were to disappear. Doug Turner, Hamilton, ON, Canada - ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/ U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too By John D. Sutter, CNN updated 3:49 PM EST, Thu November 21, 2013 Supporters of the Swiss 1:12 initiative demonstrate in Zurich on November 2. STORY HIGHLIGHTS • Switzerland will vote on a 1:12 executive-to-worker pay ratio • John Sutter: The U.S. should consider a similar proposal • He says such a ratio could curb income inequality and sky-high CEO pay • Sutter: Executive pay skyrocketed over decades while worker pay stagnated Editor's note: John D. Sutter is a columnist for CNN Opinion and head of CNN's Change the List project. Follow him on Twitter, Facebook or Google+. E-mail him at c...@cnn.com. (CNN) -- It's an idea that's radical in its simplicity. Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year. The referendum, which is called the 1:12 initiative and began after supporters gathered 100,000 signatures to put it on the ballot, is the kind of elegant solution to income inequality that we in the United States should consider more seriously. John D. Sutter Not because the initiative, as it will be voted on, would work in the United States. It likely wouldn't. But because the idea of tethering top executive pay to SOME sort of concrete metric might stop American execs from floating further into the stratosphere. RELATED: The most unequal place in America Here in America, the land of unequal opportunity, the CEOs of top-500 companies make in a single day about what it takes an average rank-and-file worker a year to earn, according to the AFL-CIO, the federation of unions. Switzerland has an average CEO-to-worker compensation ratio of 148 to 1, the group says. The average U.S. rate is 354 to 1, according to the AFL-CIO. Others put the ratio somewhat lower, around 273 to 1 in 2012. Either way, it's bad. And some U.S. companies are worse, still. JC Penney Co. has the highest ratio -- 1,795:1 -- on a list of 250 businesses compiled by Bloomberg. That department store's CEO got $53.3 million in pay and benefits in 2012, Bloomberg says. Workers, by comparison, earned only about $30,000 a year. So, like, whatever, right? What's Miley up to? It's tempting to excuse sky-high exec pay as either necessary (to attract top talent and because these inequality-era celebs are thought to increase the value of the companies where they exercise said talents) or inconsequential. The Swiss vote, for example, does nothing to increase average worker pay. It aims solely to clip cash from the very top of the economic ladder. But the pay ratio does matter, for a couple of common-sense reasons. One is that democracy starts to unravel if a few people become wildly, ethereally successful, while the rest of a country struggles. That was the best argument I heard on a recent phone call with Cedric Wermuth, a Swiss politician who has been one of the earliest proponents of the 1:12 initiative. Wermuth is not arguing for the enforced pay ratio on practical or economic grounds. His is a moral position -- that it is fundamentally unfair for the pay gap to be so wide, and that it allows a few uber-rich people to wield undo influence over society, economics and politics. There is a certain threat to democracy, he told me. RELATED: Is income inequality 'morally wrong'? Wermuth doesn't expect the 1:12 initiative to pass, but it does have about 35% to 40% support in recent polls, he told me, which is fairly staggering, and indicates people are fed up. Another argument against sky-high CEO pay is that it's unnecessary. Lynn Stout, a distinguished professor of corporate and business law at Cornell Law School, told me CEO pay has been rising for decades and that the Untied States is, in effect, subsidizing the trend with unlimited tax deductions on certain forms of pay. I'm a big fan of capitalism, she said. I love corporations and I love the business world and I think it's done more for peace and prosperity than people may realize. But there are structural reasons to think that executive pay and CEO pay are out of whack. A $1 million salary worked for American CEOs from the 1930s to 1980s, she said. CEO pay, including options realized that year, jumped about 875%, to $14.1 million, from 1978 to 2012, according to the Economic Policy Institute. That increase, which is calcuated using 2012 dollars, according to EPI, is more than double stock market growth and substantially greater than the painfully slow 5.4% growth in a typical worker's compensation over the same period. A 5% increase at the bottom versus 875% at the top. That's the same, right? What we've got is basically an arms race, Stout said, where the CEOs are competing on pay because they each want to have higher status than the others. RELATED: Should we vilify the rich?
[Biofuel] Democracy at Work
I'd like to recommend to the list a book I recently finished reading: Democracy at Work by Richard Wolff. Challenges from farm labor rights to externalized environmental costs could be addressed eloquently by Wolff's Workers' Self-Directed Enterprises; and at the heart of his proposal is a way of thinking called “surplus analysis” a concept any framework for sustainable agriculture cannot do without. Whether state or private, capitalism tends to externalize long term costs for short term efficiencies and concentrate wealth into the hands of a few. This is exactly what WSDEs are designed to prevent. The inequitable distribution of power lies at the heart of many challenges in sustainability, we are often prevented from addressing other problems until this issue is resolved. Though Wolff generalizes his WSDEs to apply to any enterprise, I think their greatest potential lies in changing the face of agricultural industries. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] Gateway to the Global Garden: Beta/Gamma Science for dealing with Ecological Rationality
Gateway to the Global Garden: Beta/Gamma Science for dealing with Ecological Rationality http://www.uoguelph.ca/research/assets/resserv/hopper_lecture/roling2000.pdf A paper that ties it all together quite well. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] Japanese translation of paragraph from Soil and Health
I am aware that there is a Japanese translation of Farming and Gardening for Health or Disease (The Soil and Health) by Sir Albert Howard that can be bought on amazon.co.jp, but does it exist online as well? I am looking for the translation of just one paragraph from the introduction, namely this brief section: By this time sufficient evidence had accumulated for setting out the case for soil fertility in book form. This was published in June 1940 by the Oxford University Press under the title of An Agricultural Testament. This book, now in its fourth English and second American edition, set forth the whole gamut of connected problems as far as can at present be done -- what wider revelations the future holds is not yet fully disclosed. In it I summed up my life's work and advanced the following views: The birthright of all living things is health. This law is true for soil, plant, animal, and man: the health of these four is one connected chain. Any weakness or defect in the health of any earlier link in the chain is carried on to the next and succeeding links, until it reaches the last, namely, man. The widespread vegetable and animal pests and diseases, which are such a bane to modern agriculture, are evidence of a great failure of health in the second (plant) and third (animal) links of the chain. The impaired health of human populations (the fourth link) in modern civilized countries is a consequence of this failure in the second and third links. This general failure in the last three links is to be attributed to failure in the first link, the soil: the undernourishment of the soil is at the root of all. The failure to maintain a healthy agriculture has largely cancelled out all the advantages we have gained from our improvements in hygiene, in housing, and our medical discoveries. To retrace our steps is not really difficult if once we set our minds to the problem. We have to bear in mind Nature's dictates, and we must conform to her imperious demand: (a) for the return of all wastes to the land; (b) for the mixture of the animal and vegetable existence; (c) for the maintaining of an adequate reserve system of feeding the plant, i.e. we must not interrupt the mycorrhizal association. If we are willing so far to conform to natural law, we shall rapidly reap our reward not only in a flourishing agriculture, but in the immense asset of an abounding health in ourselves and in our children's children. I would rely on google to provide the translation, but the service has yet to be perfected. Thanks for any assistance, Eric ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Testing the new list
well received in Fairbanks, Alaska On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:25 PM, John Chase jpcha...@tnh.net wrote: Recieved --** From: Lauretta Ayers llay...@tid.org Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:17 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgsustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Testing the new list Got it. Jo josim...@live.com 10/30/2012 9:37 AM Received Jo Simoes 619-306-5966 On Oct 30, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Chip Mefford c...@well.com wrote: Okay list; We're almost there. Keith is having issues posting to the list. I'm supposing this is due to the DNS changes that I made for the new list not fully propagating across everything as of yet. Also, the new email address (@lists.sustainability.org, rather than @ sustainability.org) isn't filtering into the archive as of yet. So, none of this chatter is being archived as of yet. Which is fine. I'd actually appreciate a few echos from you all. My logs show all the email except a small handfull being delivered promptly. And Zeke, all I got was a modest amount of rain, wind never topped 20mph. So we're doing fine. Back home in WV, the snow fall is being measured in feet, and is still pounding down. Good be some happy telemarkers this week. But things are going to be messed up, and There Will Be Flood. __**_ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgSustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** sustainablelorgbiofuelhttp://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel __**_ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgSustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** sustainablelorgbiofuelhttp://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel __**_ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgSustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** sustainablelorgbiofuelhttp://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5862 - Release Date: 10/29/12 __**_ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgSustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** sustainablelorgbiofuelhttp://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] heat regenerative cyclone engine
Hear about Harry Schoell, the inventor of the heat regenerative cyclone engine yet? Basically a steam engine, but the steam is very hot. At any rate, it is a good sight better than internal combustion, but almost anything is... Lots of applications it seems, versatile. Looks like a very promising engine, hope it has a future. http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-05/steam-under-hood Cyclone Power Technologies' Clean Green Engine Fox News http://youtube.com/watch?v=ja-h7ti4VRQfeature=related Cyclone Power Technologies, Inc (OTCPK:CYPW) http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFIbB97HcgY Here is a short summary of the operation: http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070605.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] heat regenerative cyclone engine
Right, don't scrap the old to make way for the new. But if we are to make any new (and every year autos run off assembly lines around the world), I hope we make them best we can. If I had a nickel for every popsci prediction that hasn't come to pass... And yet, this one seems a little further along and practical than others have been. BTW, love the signature line quote. --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] heat regenerative cyclone engine To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:34 AM Eric Schaetzle wrote: Hear about Harry Schoell, the inventor of the heat regenerative cyclone engine yet? Basically a steam engine, but the steam is very hot. At any rate, it is a good sight better than internal combustion, but almost anything is... Lots of applications it seems, versatile. Looks like a very promising engine, hope it has a future. http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-05/steam-under-hood Cyclone Power Technologies' Clean Green Engine Fox News http://youtube.com/watch?v=ja-h7ti4VRQfeature=related Cyclone Power Technologies, Inc (OTCPK:CYPW) http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFIbB97HcgY Here is a short summary of the operation: http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070605.html Personally, I really like steam power. Always have. I've also been reading popsci for over 40 years, and kinda got over jumping at everything they claim is going to replace internal combustion. Truth is, -in my considered opinion- that for one thing, despite the talk to the contrary, internal combustion is already pretty darned good, better in fact, than most folks are willing to credit. The fuel is what's mostly at issue, as what comes out has a lot to do with what goes in. It's true you can power a steam engine with a lot of different stuff, it's also true you can power in internal combustion engine with a lot of different stuff. AND there are ALREADY a *LOT* of internal combustion engines around. and I mean LOT, a whole LOT, many times more than human kind, or even earth kind will ever actually need. more engines isn't really the answer, I don't think. Depends on the question I suppose. Learning to use what we have in ways that make sense, is going to get us closer to the heart of the problem/challenge, says me. I don't mean to say this isn't really interesting, and no doubt useful. Not at all. But throwing away what we have for the bright and shiny what we can get, is what got us here in the first place. -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Syun-Ichi Akasofu
Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu is one of the more prominent dissenting voices on the subject of an anthropogenic cause for global warming. Is there any support for his position or has he ignored the evidence? I'm curious if anyone here can help me out as his name and research has been used in conversations I've had about global warming and I am trying to assess the validity of his position. Eric Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jean Pain video
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For anyone interested in Jean Pain's methods of producing energy from compost, but frustrated at the lack of information and the scarcity of the English edition of his book, I found a nice video about his methods that is narrated in German and is about 15 minutes long. I think this was also posted at the stoves mailing list, but didn't make it into our archives yet. Jean Pain video http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1718032861615687313 -- Hello Eric, thanks The compost was mainly used to heat a biogas digester. Does the video tell you how to use biogas as motor fuel, in a tractor for instance? I do not speak nor understand German, unfortunately... Some info on that here: Put a chicken in your tank http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#bate Methane Digesters For Fuel Gas and Fertilizer -- With Complete Instructions For Two Working Models http://journeytoforever.org/ biofuel_library.html#methanefry There's also this: Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#pain That was my first introduction to his work! Great article. Best Keith Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Jean Pain video
For anyone interested in Jean Pain's methods of producing energy from compost, but frustrated at the lack of information and the scarcity of the English edition of his book, I found a nice video about his methods that is narrated in German and is about 15 minutes long. I think this was also posted at the stoves mailing list, but didn't make it into our archives yet. Jean Pain video http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1718032861615687313 Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Jean Pain
I am interested in Jean Pain's methods of using compost to heat his house. In the Journey to Forever reprint of the article that appeared in Reader's Digest it mentions he pipes the water into registers. I was wondering if it might be more efficient to use underfloor radiant heating instead. Unfortunately I have no copy of his book available to learn more about this. I am in the process of designing a house and look forward to incorporating as many innovative, efficient, and appropriate technologies as I can now and allow for the future addition of those I can't. Eric Jean Pain article: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_pain.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Stirling engine power plants on the horizon?
Sun catchers tuned to crank out the juice By R. Colin Johnson , EE Times November 22, 2004 (11:52 AM EST) URL: http://www.eet.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=53700939 PORTLAND, Ore. EEEs are turning a 19th-century invention into a 21st-century alternative-energy source. The last leg of a two-decades-long effort by the U.S. Energy Deaprtment to unleash superefficient solar power by 2011 is homing in on the so-called Stirling engine, which is being used to drive solar generators. DOE test site measurements suggest the setup could bring the cost of solar power on a par with traditional fossil fuels and hydroelectric sources Eassuming the project engineers can balance the separate power feeds from farms of thousands of simultaneously online 25-kilowatt Stirling solar dishes. The heart of the design, the engine itself, was invented by the Scottish minister Robert Stirling in 1816. The Stirling engine makes solar power so much more efficiently than photovoltaic solar cells can, said Robert Liden, chief administrative officer at Stirling Energy Systems Inc. (Phoenix). That's because the Stirling solar dish directly converts solar heat into mechanical energy, which turns an ac electrical generator. The bottom line, he said, is that large farms of Stirling solar dishes Esay, 20,000-dish farms Ecould deliver cheap solar electricity that rivals what we pay for electricity today. Under a multiyear Energy Department contract that started in 2004, Stirling Energy Systems will supply Sandia National Laboratories with solar dishes for integration into full-fledged power-generation substations capable of direct connections to the existing U.S. power grid. Right now about 20 EEs, including more than a dozen from Stirling Energy Systems, are working full time at Sandia to create the electrical-control systems to manage these sunshine stations. By the end of 2005, they plan to have six dishes connected into a miniature power station capable of supplying enough 480-volt three-phase electricity to power about 40 homes (150 kW). The next step, in 2006, is a 40-dish power plant that will transform the combined output of the farm from 480 to 13,000 V, for distribution of industrial-level power to an existing substation. From 2007 to 2010, the program proposes mass-producing dishes to create a 20,000-dish farm supplying 230,000 V of long-haul power from its own substation directly connected to the grid. If the project succeeds, the DOE predicts that by 2011, Stirling solar-dish farms could be delivering electricity to the grid at costs comparable to traditional electricity sources, thereby reducing the U.S. need for foreign sources of fossil fuels. Eventually, according to DOE estimates, an 11-square-mile farm of Stirling solar dishes could generate as much electricity as the Hoover Dam, and a 100 x 100-mile farm could supply all the daytime needs for electricity in the United States. By storing the energy in hydrogen fuel cells during the day, Stirling solar-dish farms could supply U.S. electrical-energy needs at night too, as well as enough juice for future fuel-cell-powered automobiles, the DOE believes. Power today costs from about 3 cents to 12 cents per kilowatt-hour, depending upon the customer's location and the time of day. The average is 6.6 cents/kW-hr for the industrial sector in 2004, according to DOE. In contrast, the Stirling solar-powered substations operate only during peak hours (daytime) but at potentially the same or less than the peak rates paid today Eor about 6.5 cents per kilowatt-hour during peak periods, said Liden of Stirling Energy Systems. Prior DOE tests settled on the Stirling solar dishes by comparing traditional solar power with three kinds of focused thermal solar energy Eall of which operate in a manner similar to the solar-power generator in the James Bond movie The Man with a Golden Gun. There, Roger Moore narrowly escapes being fried by the concentrated beam from a focused solar mirror that uses the same principle whereby leaves are set on fire with the focused sunlight from a magnifying glass. The DOE compared the Stirling solar dish, parabolic troughs, power towers and concentrated photovoltaics. The study, conducted at Sandia National Laboratories' Solar Thermal Test Facility, concluded that Stirling dishes outperformed all other sources of solar power. Today Stirling-powered solar dishes at the Sandia test facility operate at 30 percent efficiency while delivering grid-ready alternating current. In contrast, 30-percent-efficient solar cells are direct current and drop to 16 percent efficiency by the time they generate grid-ready ac. And that's on a hot day. Efficiency can drop as low as 10 percent on a cool day. Tests have already shown that the Stirling engine can be made into a very efficient power generator, said Chuck Andraka, project leader at Sandia's Solar Technology
[biofuel] Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine
Kirk, My understanding of thermodynamics is not at a level that would allow me to independently evaluate the potential efficiency of an engine given its design and running characteristics. According to the following website, Melvin Vaux apparently improved Bourke's design and patented his own engine in the 1990's. Sounds interesting. http://www.constant-pressure.com/News.htm Eric Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:05:11 -0600 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine Eric, I read the 3 archives and what I previously said still stands. The thermal efficiency of a diesel far exceeds a stirling. The only time I would choose a stir;ing over a diesel is if my fuel were wood, coal, biomass or solar. None of those are useable in an internal combustion engine. Diesels run 15 to 25 to 1 compression. The ones 20 or higher get excellent economy. The Bourke was 50 to 1 and you could put your hand on the exhaust according to a pamphlet published by the Experimental Aircraft Assosciation. Kirk -Original Message- From: Eric Schaetzle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:55 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine Stirling engine's claim to fame? See the archived messages below. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=9970list=BIOFUEL http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=6853list=BIOFUEL http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=715list=BIOFUEL Eric Message: 9 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:22:07 -0600 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine Thermal efficiency of a prime mover is a function of the delta T the engine operates over and is implemented in any engine using pressure change by a ratio of volume called compression ratio. That is why the diesel is the king and if the Bourke was available it would hold the crown. I think the stirling's claim to fame is solar or solid fuel. If you have a fuel that can be internally combusted efficiency says use a diesel. Kirk -Original Message- From: Manolo Rolan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:49 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine i'll keep thinking ... i'm trying to think on a solution on of a biodiesel processor off the grid perhaps using stirling engines an other technologies, just a personal challenge... just playing thanks Eric Manolo Rolan Valencia, Spain -Mensaje original- De: borealbliss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: viernes, 26 de abril de 2002 23:31 Para: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] Re: [OT] vortex tube and stirling engine hi all: making a bit of searching on google i've found some information on both technologies, and i've thought that they could be working together, anyone has try something on that way? thanks in advance Manolo Rolan Valencia, Spain It sounds inefficient- the energy produced by a Stirling engine run using a vortex tube would be less than the energy needed to compress the air to run the vortex tube in the first place. Wouldn't it? I suggest posting your message to one of these lists for a better answer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sesusa/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HotAirEngineSociety/ Eric __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
