Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
It depends what you mean by farming. So-called conventional farming - industrialised farming - is fossil-fuel intensive, economically expensive, and the ecological costs are externalised. They can be and have been costed. By costed I meant included in the price. Because infrastructure is paid for by taxes, all business are subsidised to some extent, agriculture is probably the most subsidised ( no judgment). The brit figures are an excellent example. My wife is studying for a master in Sustainable Agriculture, I'm a little selective in what I read on the subject and so we often argue about such matters. I tutor OS students in critical reading (many are trained to believe everything that they read and suffer real trauma when presented with varying opinions in a lit. review) so I discard papers that do not have a stand alone logical development that fits the pattern I use for students. (I wouldn't read much of my own ravings) Anyway I accept that biodynamic, organic and non-genetically modified farming can be profitable on an investment/ return basis and indeed Oz would likely make more export dollars concentrating on these niche markets. If the premise that there is no more quality farmland to be had that can or rather may be used to increase production is valid then the tones/hectare becomes significant. In Oz we are being forced to retire land because of salinity. Porous alluvium over marine sediments-seems that the land near to the water is amongst the least suitable for irrigation. The irrigation farmers want the graziers to reforest the hills to lower the salt water tables, not that it would help unless the water use is minimised. Oz has many millions of hectares of flat volcanic clays that would not be subject to salinity, provided that they used good water. Of course there is no good water within cooee of the land in question. The point( there is one) is that in my experience there is no land suitable for agriculture that isn't in use and there are few sites left that combine water storage potential with suitable soils to facilitate multi-cropping. I expect this to be the situation world wide. Do you seriously believe that alternative agriculture can match the production of the industrialised systems and then increase production to meet increasing global demand? ( I allow the same level of subsidy that you demonstrate for the Brits). You have been long suffering and supportive - I owe you an explanation of my motivation.(with the associated risks involved with soul baring) Here our arguments are generally about the proportion of the natural resource that must be reserved for the rest of nature-habitat and species. The environmentalists that I slag are those who would, in this context, deny us the ability to improve the lot of the underprivileged, both here and globally. I do have reasons that make sense, to me at least. For a premise I would state that unless we can stabilise the world's human population, ecological sustainability is impossible, natural or non-Malthusian economics may eventually reduce human population by itself, however, I make the value judgment that the cost to the natural world would be unacceptable, indeed with 6 billion plus the effect could actually cause an extinction of humans as well as many other species and most natural habitats. Note that I once held the view that a series of natural population crashes should be allowed to reduce human population to a level from which we could rebuild sustainably. Without the ongoing green revolution this may have happened, but there was always going to be a maximum population size beyond which the ecological damage associated with population crashes could be tolerated. Is the 6 billion the magic maximum? Has my human conscience rejected the costs in human suffering associated with population crashes cut in? Indeed my perception of acceptable ecological damage may have changed. Only Lassie knows! Some one else can judge. The only projections that I am aware of, that show world population ultimately declining, involve an increase in the modal standard of living, globally. Particularly in terms of food security and education. I hope that my comments are generally consistent with a desire to achieve an improved global standard of living and, subsequently, population decline via a decreased birth rate. I am guilty of assuming that initiatives that may reduce productivity or the rate of increase of productivity are contrary to improving living standards and as such diminish from a sustainable future. A very few people are prepared to see a positive correlation between population size and global production and make the logical connection that limiting production will limit population. My line is that though this is probably true, to me it no longer leads to a sustainable future for the reasons that I outlined above. -The outcome is not worth the costs! Totally a value judgment? My students once wrote in a year book: You cannot win an
Re: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
Where are you Jeff? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] economy of scale Re: Digest # 491 + ethanol pricing.
I don't want to get in this loop, far too entertaining, but: In Queensland's brigalow (nitrogen fixer)belt Farmers clear, and burn, say 100 acres then cultivate wheat for a couple of seasons, often to replace harvesters or other capital equipment. After a few seasons the water retention and fertility is such that wheat is not viable, then sheep are grazed (if wool has any value) or the land left to regenerate. (if it can in an arid environment) before it blows away. I would be kind if I said that the brigalow grows back and renews the soil for another cycle but the time factor is large. Can we call it slash and burn when they use D9's? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
In Oz farming is on the nose and considered by some environmental groups as the industry that should be eliminated ASAP because of its impact. Environmental costs of farming are no more costed than those of any other industry. If mineral fuel sources are replaced by renewable combustion then the only environmental saving is in the release of CO2. The arguments against global warming are mostly social or humanitarian since the rate of warming is likely within the parameters of natural change. Given the apparent attitude of some environmentalists to humanitarian issues this spells hypocrisy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
You have removed calorific value of the farm product. At present (6 billion)we are capable of sufficient overproduction to wear that, but at 18 billion (2050?)we would not, try 50 billion people. The projections that show population leveling off and then decreasing require that a minimum global standard of living (including education) be achieved. How does elimination of fossil fuels assist that? If we in the first world are not prepared to give up our wealth or share of production then achieving population control requires a massive increase in global production, a simple choice. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Mothers milk. No matter how you say it to decrease rate of increase and ultimately the rate of usage, you need to make it more expensive in terms of disposable income of the major user groups. This has the effect of making fuel unavailable to the poor while increasing the flow on costs of most (all?) production including food. Only those NGO's that are comfortable with a raised poverty level (minimum life sustaining income) would attempt to reduce supply or increase cost of fuels without poverty alleviation as a prerequisite. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Ken! Whether you dig it,grow it or catch it as sunlight. If there is an exponential increase in the rate of use of energy it would need to come from an infinite source at a potentially infinite rate, to be sustainable. There is an absolute limit to Cultivatable land, one we reached at least 30 years ago. The reason Governments even notice concerns about climate change is that it may mean less land is suitable for cultivation, at least on a national basis. We NEED to take the exponential out of first world consumer patterns. We NEED to use what we know about human population dynamics to take the exponential out of population growth. I might just stop about there, I'm starting to preach again - at least if you get to hear me do the passion bit on the rostrum it can be entertaining. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil
As I recall I used to use coconut juice as an enzyme source for plant tissue culture when I was mericloning rare plants. The nutritional value is probably what keeps the populations as healthy as they are.-Drink it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rethinking economy of scale
Excellent assessment! Works for First world pensioners too. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Thai king promotes home-grown green palm fuels
I have some info on the FA comp of Coconut oil compared with palm and canola. Firstly the FA comp varies with the variety and the season in all species. Coco nut is mainly: Lauric 46.2% C12:0,(no double bonds) Miristic 18.6% C14:0, Palmitic 10.3% C16:0, Stearic 13.1% C18:0. Palm (there are two main species with several cultivars) C12:0- 0.2%, C14:0- 1.0%, C16:0-39.7%, C18:0- 4.5%, C18:1-42.5%,(one double bond) C18:2-11.5%,(two double bonds) C18:3- 0.2%,(three double bonds) C20:0- 0.4%, C22:0-0.2%. Canola (Ebony)typical C16:0- 4.0%, C16:1- 0.3%, C18:0- 2.0%, C18:1-62.3%, C18:2-18.3%, C18:3- 9.6%, C20:0- 0.7%, C20:1- 1.3%, C20:2- 0.1%, C22:0- 0.6%, C22:1- 0.1%, C24:0- 0.2%, C24:1- 0.2%, Sat 7.5% It seems that the average chain length of coconut fatty acids is shorter and has very few double bonds compared with palm or canola. Nearly half of the esters from Coconut may be expected to derive from a straight chain 12 carbons long. Esters from palm oil may derive from carbon chains that range from 16 to 18 many with double bonds. Canola esters may be derived from chains with one or two double bonds that are predominantly 18 carbons in length. I guess that means that we may expect that esters derived from Coconut would be significantly shorter than esters from some other sources- that should mean a lower melting point. The lack of double bonds may affect the melting properties as well, I suspect that hydrogen bonding may be more prevalent in esters with double bonds. Of course with my memory I could have that backwards, just seems logical. Regards Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
You are right of course, the trick is in knowing what to teach. I'm not convinced that this generation has the mechanism or even the will to address wealth distribution. That mankind will persist I have no real doubt, the issue then becomes the continued existence of species other than the slave species when the population crashes (in human terms depressive economic phenomena) come. What I'm hearing is that specialist groups are working on various problems in isolation. This is confusing to say the least, particularly for politicians, and rather dangerous since disparate groups that are essentially concerned with Eco-sustainability can end up at cross purposes. E.g. Sierra Club and alternative fuels. There are enough people concerned with the issue to make a difference. It is past time they worked together. I suspect that after ES2002 we may be a step closer to that, we were after Rio-two steps forward and one back is still a gain. I for one am convinced that we will not save the world unless we save humanity at the same time. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Thai king promotes home-grown green palm fuels
I share your concerns about Coconut oil used unmodified as fuel, the problem in the South Pacific though is the convoluted means of import of anything even alcohol and Caustic soda. I'm not real keen on setting up high yield stills in villages having seen the mess alcohol can make in Paradise. The oil produced by DME is very different to the oil obtained from copra. Since DME oil has to be made at the source(village or farm) level I am in favour of a change in that respect. Thailand is another matter, I have past students in influential positions and from what they tell me of their King he would be amenable to any alternative that would benefit his people. If a group would like to put together an objective paper showing the benefit of ester production, I would be happy to promote it within the Thai Government. I'm a newcomer so I expect correction, but I suspect that the esters from Coconut oil may be useful to make a winter grade of Biodiesel for the less tropical producers. The report from Woolongong University has been supported by peer review. Regards from Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Earth Summit 2002 should be interesting if, as I have suggested, some NGO's in developed countries have polarised the Rio Declaration by concentrating on Cleaning the environment without attempting to better distribute wealth and eliminate poverty. I see this as too much like the Feudal system that existed when the aristocracy had vast and pristine Forests and estates while the peasantry starved and am therefore suspicious of the NGO's. In OZ every school kid has environmentalism shoved down their necks every day, I want the social and economic stuff there to balance that. If we succeeded in that I feel that the next few generations would automatically work towards a solution. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] can you make biodiesel out of clean vegatable oil??
Clean oil is great! The bits you mention are there for flavour. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sierra Club's Dismal Daniel Becker
Some Oz conservationists are opposed to any energy source that produces CO2 regardless of the source. When you add hydro and nuclear to that, high yield energy become a problem. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] does biodiesel congeal in colder weather??
I would expect that used oil had shorter chains since it is discarded when it fails to get hot enough to cook at the smoke point. Some oils (coconut) produce shorter chain esters. shouldn't be a problem in Queensland. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in 10 minutes
Homogenizing the alcohol, catalyst and oil may be the limiting factor, in that case using a solvent that dissolves both the alcohol and the oil would have the potential to vastly accelerate the process. They are not clear on the final part of the reaction but I would guess that an additive that precipitated out the glycerin would push the reaction to completion. It may be as simple as adding water further down the pipe. Comments please!! Regards from Harry. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim
Now that is worth knowing!! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Bio Quality Test?
I read a paper from a link here that suggested that the degree of initial homogenisation of alcohol, catalyst and oil was a(the?) limiting factor in yield, or are we talking separation failure here? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Now you have made me think!! Naturally I don't mean to support the global free trade push, rather I support regulation at the national level, but it is the mechanism of that regulation I am struggling to identify. I like your point about real capitalism as opposed to the corporate way. Unfortunately the pooling of resources may be a characteristic of modern man in that it gave a selective advantage to the tribes that employed it best. I am not convinced that this is intrinsically evil. Even at a village level those who benefit from working together need a way to demonstrate a social conscience, in the absence of a spiritual incentive, taxation seems appropriate. ---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, to present low and middle income taxpayers. I agree that socialised costs, either infrastructure or environmental, are paid for by taxes. There are more low and middle taxpayers and therein lies the democratic possibility of shifting the tax burden to where it belongs. And yes it may well be a trickle down effect but without some mitigating mechanism the efficient capitalists tend to condense to corporations. A classic criticism of taxing wealth is that it removes the incentive for economic advancement, that of course is the idea, by providing incentive for the poor and removing the incentive above some point we may reduce the gap between the rich and poor. It also caps the local capitalist. If we can't do that in developed countries what chance else where. The poorer they are the more children they have. I know of no instances where the Green Revolution reduced infant and mother mortality rates, many instances of it doing the opposite. Population would not have increased without a higher survival rate- naturally the population expands to meet another (or the same) limiting factor. If we rationalise the obvious- that the children we help to survive will contribute to further population pressure- we are on dangerous ground. The best way I can detect to prevent this is to properly educate the children and provide them with social (including food) security by taxing those who accumulate the wealth. ( Increases in productivity do produce wealth and it does accumulate some where.) This is improving my expression but I am still waiting for mechanism. Come the revolution is no longer good enough, nor can we wait for some genius, we need to find ways to turn the tide ourselves and use the expanding environmental movement to affect the democratic system. Our green platitudes work on the converted, pragmatic sustainability and transparent mechanics of change may work on the majority. You have offered some insight to the issue of assisting sustainable development in under developed States. Thanks Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubblewash murkyness
Was the PH down after washing? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnets in fuel line.
In retirement I edit PHD thesis for pocket money, I've probably learnt more this way than any other. One thing I have learnt: Whatever method they use, any of us should be able to duplicate the results by following the procedure as reported, all else is BS. Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] of magnets and testing
In a previous posting I insist that an empirical trial that can be replicated by others using the original method described is necessary for the credibility of technical claims. This is what most of us are doing with bio diesel production, having replicated the results of others we extend the envelope and report on our findings in a manner that allows others to replicate our results. This is the scientific method. There are things that I accept on faith alone- they are to do with my spirituality- I try not to confuse the two. I do not require that others do the same, however be aware that I may exhibit tolerant skepticism of claims that appear to defy empirical replication. I am always happy to change my position in the light of peer review. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coco-diesel - Engine repair claims turned down
Hi Hanns, I would be very interested in that paper on coconut oil. If we go commercial here (a long way off) I would like to have some of our past students from the Pacific export coco esters to us to produce a winter grade of biodiesel. The income stream would be good for all concerned. From Harry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] of magnets and testing
P.S. My comment on reorganisation of molecules could be taken a little seriously if there is a possibility of induced or real polarity of the molecules concerned, instead of placing the other magnet opposite the first try it in line to effectively lengthen the lines of force parallel to the fuel line. Its just a hypothesis no harm in feeling an effect at the hypothesis stage is there. Can you deactivate the knock compensator? Regards Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Reclaiming the methanol
Paul, a filled reflux column will achieve a vapor separation, by managing the temperature at the top of the column the lowest boiling point substance may be extracted as a vapor for recovery in the condenser. By raising the temperature, sequential separation of a volatile mixture is possible. Overkill for methanol. A simple distillation below 90C should give good separation from water. A reflux condenser may yield 170 proof ethanol or better from beer, any methanol will separate before the ethanol(in case you want to drink it). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol
Paul my next batch will be with cotton seed oil. I intend to use the twostage with KOH rather than NaOH. The best I can do with NaOH seems to be 80-85% pure, I suspect that leaves too much water to avoid soaps. I'll take your advice and wash and dry it. I'll let you know how it goes. The oil collectors here buy the oil and sell to a soap factory. I'll need more experience to determine the break even point on oil cost, so far KOH is $100/25kg and Methanol $30/20l drum. I need to calculate the average energy cost. Any experience using glycerin as a heating fuel? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on Jerusalem artichokes
Thanks for those references Keith, they will be very useful. I am in an unstable phase in regards to my position on Ecological Sustainability and population. If we are in fact in denial and consequentially get it wrong we and the rest of biodiversity may only survive in pockets, despite what WE do the poor may destroy the biosphere in THEIR attempt to survive. Even the references you gave in regards to food production (and they are amongst the best) leave an after taste of closure, of hope rather than reason. The food import figures you quote may indicate the capacity of the populations concerned to pay for imports including food and I'm sure that you are aware of this aspect, indeed that is my real concern. If we were right why did we go to such convolutions to justify our position. One could argue that the world never was sustainable simply because starvation related disease always existed. As it stands the fat or greedy fail to leave enough to feed the poor and that means that the world does NOT produce enough food to go around. Until I observe a change in the way wealth, and food, are distributed I must insist that we do all we can to increase the total production of food and services to humans. When so many depend on the scraps from a rich man's table the apparent solution is more food for the rich resulting in more scraps for the poor. We are attempting to reduce our waste and effective consumption by recycling, while we are at it we reduce our environmental impact. These are good things. We should, though, take care that cleaner production at the farm level results in productivity gains per hectare not losses or increased cost. For political purposes we may talk of reducing environmental costs and even put a dollar value on environmental gain, in reality it has no dollar value unless you can collect it and distribute it to the needy. In Australia at least there has been a steady move away from the spirit of the Rio Declaration, so much so that the official definition of Ecological Sustainability lacks any reference to poverty or social equity. Many environmental projects have and are causing economic distress to the growing ranks of Australia's poor. The reaction will not be good, either the community will rebel or the social and economic divide will widen, either way the environment will loose. I hope that the Earth Summit 2002 may be the watershed, certainly some of the concerns expressed by commissioners as they prepare indicate that I am not alone in my misgivings. It may be that the haves are not willing to share. If that is the case, the have-nots can hardly be expected to contribute to an improvement in our quality of life. On this forum we work at the practical end of sustainability and maybe that's our share but sometimes the practical people need to moderate the ideologues. Humans have got it terribly wrong before but imagine a mass extinction of species caused by a resource/human population crisis precipitated by environmental idealists who seemed to think that the poor would gracefully depart. How embarrassing! A quote from Indira Gandhi: We do not wish to impoverish the environment any further, and yet we cannot for a moment forget the grim poverty of large numbers of people. Aren't poverty and need the greatest polluters? How can we speak to those who live in villages and in slums about keeping the oceans and rivers and air clean when their own lives are contaminated at the source? The environment cannot be improved in conditions of poverty. Nor can poverty be eradicated without the use of science and technology. Any assistance with this moral dilemma appreciated. Regards from Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] costs of ingredeints to produce biodiesel from rapeseed oil
As I understand it NaOH always contains water and KOH does not. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on Jerusalem artichokes
The bugs in the stomachs of ruminants and termites digest cellulose (waste paper and stubble) to sugars that can be fermented. The reason draft horses are inefficient is that they require too much land to grow their fuel (food), even for on farm energy existing waste products need to be used. Any attempt to grow fuel for general use would require a massive increase in crop yields at a time when we are unlikely to be able to grow enough food to feed everyone without affecting other species. To go green in developed countries at the expense of food production may well result in effective genocide in other, less developed countries, even our own poor would not be exempt. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Reclaiming the methanol
Methanol is extremely soluble but a reflux condenser should give a good yield. Beyond that the methods cited for drying ethanol should apply. Harry in Oz. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
