Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
Darryl, methanol is already used as motor fuel in Indy Car and Speedway. Metanol is similar to ethanol, but more. It means that of all properties that ethanol has, methanol has more of them. Methanol is slightly more corrosive than water and has an oxygene content of 50% by weight. The flash point is slightly lower than for ethanol. Incomplete combustion of methanol generates formaldehyde and other toxic substances. It is also known that methanol can cause wear in excess in connection with the motor oil , unless the oil is specially suited for methanol. Your vehicle will consume double the amount of fuel compared to gasoline and cold starts will be very difficult unless you add some gasoline to the metanol fuel. However, you can expect a very high fuel effiency if your motor is fully adapted to the methanol fuel. That is the brief version, I also have designed a method for purification of sulfate methanol (derived from paper pulping) but that technology is currently classfied due to pending patent. I hope this information did not scar you off, but increased your curiosity. Best Jan Warnqvisr -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Darryl McMahon Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:03 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel In Canada, it is illegal to produce ethanol for fuel without a federal permit, and these are effectively never granted to a home brewer. I have been pondering the idea of using methanol (wood alcohol) as an alternative to ethanol fuel, but have not taken the time to research it. Has somebody else already done this, and can save me the effort? My recollection is it is possible to use methanol as a motor fuel, which is supported by this document. https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/20_2_PHILADELPHIA_04-75_0059.pdf I know that during the war years (1939 to 1945), a number of people ran engines on wood gas (the images of large gas bladders on vehicle roof racks come easily to mind). I do have access to wood waste and fruit waste material, but working space is at a premium. Also, the processes I see seem to be based on having process heat available (e.g., for pyrolysis). However, I don't think I need a lot - our third vehicle travels about 400 km a month, and I figure the methanol will only displace about 20 litres a month of gasoline at a maximum, probably less. I can buy methanol commercially, but in small quantities (retail), it is more expensive than gasoline. However, could be an option for experimentation in the vehicle before committing to home production. I also have not yet investigated regulatory and safety issues, but expect the latter to be manageable. Thoughts, experience, pointers to relevant experience or information? ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Keith Addison passed away
My sincere condolences to you Midori. Keith´s life work has been of immense importance to many people and we are all in debt to him for his comittment and doings. Jan Warnqvist -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: David Penfold Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 2:28 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Keith Addison passed away Sincere condolences to you, Midori, and anyone who knew Keith. He has been an inspiration and helped spark my interest in many alternative technologies. David Penfold ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel, thanks to AMU students
Interesting. Mustard oil have usually high levels of erucic acid (C22:1) and is usually disregarded by biodieselers because of that content. It is assumed that biodiesel with erucic acid is hard to comply to both EN and ASTM standards due to the increased boiling point and decreased ester content. The thumb rule is, that longer the fatty acid chain, the more difficult the alkylation. Would be nice to see some data from their experiments. -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Darryl McMahon Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:18 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel,thanks to AMU students http://ibnlive.in.com/news/used-mustard-oil-is-the-new-source-of-biodiesel-thanks-to-amu-students/461853-3-242.html Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel, thanks to AMU students Apr 01, 2014 at 07:21pm IST A group of engineering students from Aligarh Muslim University have succeeded in extracting bio-diesel from refined and used mustard oil, university officials said on Tuesday. Third-year students of the Diploma in Engineering at the AMU Polytechnic designed a bio-diesel extraction plant as part of the recently developed Alternative Fuel and Combustion Engineering Lab, said M. Yunus Khan, assistant professor of mechanical engineering. The process can help in directly replacing diesel in conventional engines, thereby reducing India's dependence on imported oil and emissions of various pollutants, officials said. Bio-diesel is a renewable fuel derived from vegetable oil that can be an additive to or entirely replace diesel in engines. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Tar Sands Report
Hello Keith. Glad to have you back. Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tar Sands Report Hi Robert And then there's this... http://truth-out.org/news/item/8403-keystone-xls-dirty-little-secret Keystone XL's Dirty Little Secret Monday, 09 April 2012 09:18 By Jim Hightower, OtherWords | News Analysis The people and companies pushing the tar-sands pipeline don't want you to know that most of this oil won't be made into gasoline for our vehicles. It's certainly true, declared Energy Secretary Stephen Chu, that having Canada as a supplier for our oil is much more comforting than to have other countries supply our oil. He was referring to the Canadian tar sands oil that TransCanada Corporation intends to move through the Keystone XL pipeline it wants to build from Alberta to refineries on the Texas Gulf Coast. He and lobbyists for the pipeline assert that filling America's gas tanks with fuel derived from Canadian crude will cut U.S. dependency on the oil we get from unstable and unfriendly nations. Good point! If it were true. However, ask yourself this question: why go to the expense of piping this stuff 2,000 miles through six states, endangering water supplies and residents with inevitable toxic spills, when there are oil refineries much closer to Canada in the Midwest? What's the advantage of sending Canadian crude to refineries way down in Port Arthur, Texas? Aha - because it's a port! What the pushers of Keystone want to keep secret from you and me is that this oil will not be made into gasoline for our vehicles. Most of it will be refined into diesel and jet fuel and exported to Europe, China, and Latin America. The claim that the pipeline will reduce our reliance on OPEC is an outright lie. Such oil giants as Valero, Motiva, and Total have already rejiggered their Port Arthur refineries specifically to make diesel and jet fuel, nearly all of which will then be piped into tanker ships at the port and sent abroad. In presentations to investors, Valero openly touts its export strategy, even showing world maps with convenient arrows pointing from Port Arthur to its foreign customers. You'd think our energy secretary would know this dirty little secret and come clean with the American people. National radio commentator, writer, public speaker, and author of the book, Swim Against The Current: Even A Dead Fish Can Go With The Flow, Jim Hightower has spent three decades battling the Powers That Be on behalf of the Powers That Ought To Be - consumers, working families, environmentalists, small businesses, and just-plain-folks. Interesting reading . . . http://forestethics.org/downloads/FEA_Tar_Sands_funding_briefing.pdf Robert Luis Rabello Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Meet the People video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c Crisis video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4 The Long Journey video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4muxaksgk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
Hello Keith and all. I can answer that question. A few years back I visited a company recycling engine oil and they managed to remove the inorganic content (water, metals, old additives etc) from the oil ending up with a clear and bright base oil which was analyzed as such (viscosity etc) and then sold back to the lubricant manufacturers as base oil. It seems that the base oil is very stable but this recycling should not be possible for indefinite time, since nature has its course, eventually cracking the oil into different other products. It´s a way of prolonging the life of the petro industry. Best to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi Zeke Is filtering all that's required? Filtering what, I wonder, little bits of engine that get worn off? Isn't that what the oil is supposed to prevent? By the time it needs changing, isn't the oil itself somewhat worn out, having been subjected to all that heat and high pressure? Just asking. Regards Keith Bio based, no... but I have seen, in the last few months, introduction of a whole line of recycled engine oils in the local auto parts stores here. I'm not really sure what the recycled content is percentage wise, but apparently it's using old engine oil, filtering all the bad stuff out, and adding back in the additives that have been used up. It's supposed to meet the same standards as new petro-based engine oil. Z On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Keith et al. I am not surprised on the market non-introduction of castor oil lubricants. Castor oil, although a classic, is not ideal as a raw material for lubricant formulations. The castor oil has two hydroxyl groups on the fatty acid (ricinic acid) chain which will want to polymerize and releasing water into the system, giving the lubricant an unnecessary short life. What attracts the lubricant inventors is the high viscosity and the expected high viscosity index of the oil which both looks promising enough. But I would prefer a more stable material to start with and then adjusting the viscosity values chemically. A good lubricant consist from a base oil and then added a number of additives in order to adjust the properties of the lubricant. It is then preferable to bring as favourable properties already in the base oil in order to minimize the addition of additives. Best to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi Chris and Dawie The answer seems to be No. Sorry to say. It was first discussed here in 2001. Lots of interesting stuff in the list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Try bio engine oil or biolubricant. (Don't forget, the whole thread is hotlinked at the end of each find.) If you do a web search, you'll find lots of talk, lots of products that are simply biodegradeable, green lubricants to replace the likes of WD-40 or 2-stroke oil, and a few commercial bio engine oils, with claims that they're made from renewable resources but they don't say what, or they're a marriage of renewables (pig fat) and nano-tech, or whatever, but nothing DIYable. I knew some people in Japan who were making bio engine oil from castor oil. They wouldn't tell me how they were doing it, but they gave me a bottle of it. Clear, light yellow, sort of oily smell. But after a while it started degrading, whisps of cloudiness started appearing. Not perfect, and they never brought a product to market. Still, castor oil is probably the best bet. It's strange stuff - give this a read: http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm IIRC Brazil's Petrobras had plans for producing castor oil-based engine oil, but I can't find any details. HTH, and good luck - best Keith This is something I've also been wondering about.-D From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, 21 January 2012, 1:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi all. I'm still new to biofuels but have been making biodiesel and ethanol for my vehicles for a few months now and am thrilled with it. However, I can't stand filling up my gas tank with home made, environmentally friendly fuel, then changing the oil with expensive petroleum. So, I have been doing some research into making Bio-Engine Oil, it seems possible which makes me very enthusiastic. Does anybody know anything about making vegetable based motor oil? Or does anybody have any experience with using it? Thanks very much
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
Hello C Pinelli et al. The lubricant industry is not very interested in bringing in new raw materials (e.g. vegetable oils and/or derivates) since there are standards on the final lubricants that have to be met. Taking in new materials may make it necessary to formulate new standards, which is a time-consuming and costly process, however not carrying that new standards is equal to lack of quality. In contrast to the petro fuel industry, the lubricant industry was awake concerning EU regulation proposals and managed to stop a proposal similar to the one on the fuel , demanding a certain amount of renewable material of the total sales. Instead came an EU regulation regarding special labelling of renewable lubricants in the EU, which they have to apply to get. I have seen nothing of this labelling out in the shops so far, and this regulation is since 2004 or 2005. So, similar to the biodesel industry, it takes new actors on the market to make it happen. With financial strength and patience, of course. I have developed a nice vegetable based two-stroke oil (which is among the most difficult to formulate, due to the high working temperatures) which is still pending for market introduction. So there it is. Any comments ? With best to everybody Jan W - Original Message - From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi all. I'm still new to biofuels but have been making biodiesel and ethanol for my vehicles for a few months now and am thrilled with it. However, I can't stand filling up my gas tank with home made, environmentally friendly fuel, then changing the oil with expensive petroleum. So, I have been doing some research into making Bio-Engine Oil, it seems possible which makes me very enthusiastic. Does anybody know anything about making vegetable based motor oil? Or does anybody have any experience with using it? Thanks very much Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20120120/43ebf1e7/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
Hello Keith et al. I am not surprised on the market non-introduction of castor oil lubricants. Castor oil, although a classic, is not ideal as a raw material for lubricant formulations. The castor oil has two hydroxyl groups on the fatty acid (ricinic acid) chain which will want to polymerize and releasing water into the system, giving the lubricant an unnecessary short life. What attracts the lubricant inventors is the high viscosity and the expected high viscosity index of the oil which both looks promising enough. But I would prefer a more stable material to start with and then adjusting the viscosity values chemically. A good lubricant consist from a base oil and then added a number of additives in order to adjust the properties of the lubricant. It is then preferable to bring as favourable properties already in the base oil in order to minimize the addition of additives. Best to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi Chris and Dawie The answer seems to be No. Sorry to say. It was first discussed here in 2001. Lots of interesting stuff in the list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Try bio engine oil or biolubricant. (Don't forget, the whole thread is hotlinked at the end of each find.) If you do a web search, you'll find lots of talk, lots of products that are simply biodegradeable, green lubricants to replace the likes of WD-40 or 2-stroke oil, and a few commercial bio engine oils, with claims that they're made from renewable resources but they don't say what, or they're a marriage of renewables (pig fat) and nano-tech, or whatever, but nothing DIYable. I knew some people in Japan who were making bio engine oil from castor oil. They wouldn't tell me how they were doing it, but they gave me a bottle of it. Clear, light yellow, sort of oily smell. But after a while it started degrading, whisps of cloudiness started appearing. Not perfect, and they never brought a product to market. Still, castor oil is probably the best bet. It's strange stuff - give this a read: http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm IIRC Brazil's Petrobras had plans for producing castor oil-based engine oil, but I can't find any details. HTH, and good luck - best Keith This is something I've also been wondering about.-D From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, 21 January 2012, 1:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi all. I'm still new to biofuels but have been making biodiesel and ethanol for my vehicles for a few months now and am thrilled with it. However, I can't stand filling up my gas tank with home made, environmentally friendly fuel, then changing the oil with expensive petroleum. So, I have been doing some research into making Bio-Engine Oil, it seems possible which makes me very enthusiastic. Does anybody know anything about making vegetable based motor oil? Or does anybody have any experience with using it? Thanks very much Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
One suggestion is that if you have a lot of methanol in excess, the wash test will form an emulsion, since the methanol is soluble both in water and in biodiesel. But it will pass my test. And it did ? - Original Message - From: Ian and Jubilee Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer I just reprocessed this last batch using 100ml of methanol and 5.5g KOH. It turned darker and there are little cooties floating around in it. Also, nothing settled out. Upon doing the wash test, it immediately formed an emulsion, although the methanol test yields a nice clear phase with no settle material. I am confused. I'm going to move on and make another batch, but I'd like to know what went wrong so I can at least learn something. Any ideas? On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Ian and Jubilee Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've let the BD separate for over 24 hours, which I thought should be enough time. My method for separating could be suspect. I'm decanting out of a settling bottle and tried to be careful, but it is possible that some glycerine sneaked past. I think getting a better set up going is going to make it a lot easier to be consistent. I just put my third batch through the methanol and wash tests and this time I've got some settling in the methanol so I think I'm going to reprocess it. The wash test turned out the same. Here's a link to a picture: https://picasaweb.google.com/ianandjubilee/Biodiesel?authuser=0authkey=Gv1sRgCNSD4sbwsfyjYAfeat=directlink I also was wondering it our water softener could have an effect. Could softened water create more of a problem? Thanks for the help, Ian On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello C Pinelli. Did you check the FFA and water contents on your raw material before processing ? FFA levels above 5 mg KOH/g (2,5%) will produce a lot of soaps, making the processing bad and the separation even worse. The water content will promote the soap production and will also compete with the methanol. The highest acceptable water content is around 1,5% and the lower the better. - Original Message - From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer I am having a similar problem, I have experience making ethanol successfully, but I'm new to biodiesel. I've been trying to get it right for some time with many many test batches, without too much success. I've followed the instructions as closely as possible, but still can't quite get it right. I use 90% KOH Flakes, a scale thats accurate to the hundreth of a gram, and am incredibly meticulous in my measurements. I've had mixed (but mostly good)results with the methanol test, but have never consistantly passed the wash test. Sometimes I get a very thick separation line between the two, sometimes I get clear water on the bottom with a yellowy mayo like substance on top. Sometimes it seems to have the reverse result, where it appears to be clear biodiesel on top, with very murky white water underneath. I've tried various amount of KOH and methanol, and varying my processing times, but I can't seem to get it down. As soon as my schedule permits, I'm going to try to get some new chemicals, because im worried that my lye might be water contaminated. Any help deciphering these results would be really appreciated. Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:51:30 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer Hello to all. I've made two test batches of biodiesel using new oil using the instructions on the JTF site, which I've read and re-read, along with many of the mailing list posts. I'm enjoying everything I'm learning, but still have a ton to learn. I also have a question. In both my test batches I've performed the quality tests recommended. The fuel passes the methanol test fine, with no glycerine settling out. When I come to the wash test, I have perhaps an eighth of an inch of white foam between the water and the biodiesel. It separates quite well though. I've tried to follow all instructions to the letter and I ordered my chemicals from DudaDiesel, so I assume they are a good quality. I assume the foam is soap. It could be that my measurements aren't precise enough, but if they aren't it's because of my instruments. I have been very meticulous in my measurements. I've gone ahead and washed the biodiesel from both batches, and they also have a lot of white foam, although they also separate very quickly. With both batches I've just kept washing until there's
Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
Hello C Pinelli. Did you check the FFA and water contents on your raw material before processing ? FFA levels above 5 mg KOH/g (2,5%) will produce a lot of soaps, making the processing bad and the separation even worse. The water content will promote the soap production and will also compete with the methanol. The highest acceptable water content is around 1,5% and the lower the better. - Original Message - From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer I am having a similar problem, I have experience making ethanol successfully, but I'm new to biodiesel. I've been trying to get it right for some time with many many test batches, without too much success. I've followed the instructions as closely as possible, but still can't quite get it right. I use 90% KOH Flakes, a scale thats accurate to the hundreth of a gram, and am incredibly meticulous in my measurements. I've had mixed (but mostly good)results with the methanol test, but have never consistantly passed the wash test. Sometimes I get a very thick separation line between the two, sometimes I get clear water on the bottom with a yellowy mayo like substance on top. Sometimes it seems to have the reverse result, where it appears to be clear biodiesel on top, with very murky white water underneath. I've tried various amount of KOH and methanol, and varying my processing times, but I can't seem to get it down. As soon as my schedule permits, I'm going to try to get some new chemicals, because im worried that my lye might be water contaminated. Any help deciphering these results would be really appreciated. Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:51:30 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer Hello to all. I've made two test batches of biodiesel using new oil using the instructions on the JTF site, which I've read and re-read, along with many of the mailing list posts. I'm enjoying everything I'm learning, but still have a ton to learn. I also have a question. In both my test batches I've performed the quality tests recommended. The fuel passes the methanol test fine, with no glycerine settling out. When I come to the wash test, I have perhaps an eighth of an inch of white foam between the water and the biodiesel. It separates quite well though. I've tried to follow all instructions to the letter and I ordered my chemicals from DudaDiesel, so I assume they are a good quality. I assume the foam is soap. It could be that my measurements aren't precise enough, but if they aren't it's because of my instruments. I have been very meticulous in my measurements. I've gone ahead and washed the biodiesel from both batches, and they also have a lot of white foam, although they also separate very quickly. With both batches I've just kept washing until there's no more white junk and the water is clear. Does this take care of the soap (if that's what it is), or is there still something to be concerned about? Also, any suggestions on how to get that paper thin white layer instead of the thicker one I have now? I'm using new oil, what I think are quality chemicals, and I'm being as meticulous as I know how to be. As far as I know, I'm following your instructions to the letter. I thank you for your help, Ian -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110907/565c4278/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110910/ac803a3f/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline
Hello Keith and all. I agree with you to some extent. Gasoline is a non-polar mix of 100:s and 100:s of hydrocarbons. In order to be corrosive there has to be a) metal ions (Lewis acids) producing a low pH and b) water or other polar compounds in the system. Anhydrous ethanol stays anhydrous reasonably long assuming that it is kept in a closed vessel, preferably with dehydration air filters. No I have not heard if Absolut is into juridical problems. But me, I prefer Lithuanian Gold vodka or Wyborowa, so it does not matter. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline Hij Jan Thanks for your reply. What I was asking about is the 4% (4.37%) water in the azeotrope mix that won't separate from the water by distillation. When 190-proof ethanol is blended with gasoline, the overall proportion of water is even lower. Zeolite will remove the last of the water, but it's another processing step and you have to buy it, and how long will the ethanol stay absolute? I thought that today's engines were built to resist rust and corrosion. Gasoline is also corrosive. There's also this, in a previous message: Biodiesel as an anti-wear and smog additive for gasoline fuel is very encouraging. - Franklin Del Rosario, January 2004, Biodiesel in gasoline engines - scroll down the page to Biodiesel in 4-stroke gasoline engines http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gas It sounds like a good ethanol additive too. Has Absolut Vodka been sued yet for making false advertising claims? :-) Since it sure isn't absolute. Is it still just as good now that it's French? Somebody once gave me a bottle of 100-proof Absolut, wonderful stuff. All best Keith Hello all. I wish to comment that like this: Gasoline engines are sensitive to water, too sensitive to accept anything but a very small portion of water containing alcohol in the gasoline. Any alcohol blend in gasoline should originate from anhydrous alcohol.The fact that ethanol in water is corrosive does not make it better. Some of the ethanol will drop a hydrogen atom to the water and create acid and an ethoxide ion, both are aggressive. The diesel engines, as a contrast, can accept up to four per cents of water without even long-term problems. But then the engine in question has to be prepared for ethanol as fuel, of course. Best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline Hi all Would someone who has David Blume's Alcohol Can Be a Gas! please look up something for me? I can't get at my copy at the moment. What does Mr Blume say about blending 95% ethanol (190-proof) with gasoline? Miscible or not? Thanks! Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline
Hello all. I wish to comment that like this: Gasoline engines are sensitive to water, too sensitive to accept anything but a very small portion of water containing alcohol in the gasoline. Any alcohol blend in gasoline should originate from anhydrous alcohol.The fact that ethanol in water is corrosive does not make it better. Some of the ethanol will drop a hydrogen atom to the water and create acid and an ethoxide ion, both are aggressive. The diesel engines, as a contrast, can accept up to four per cents of water without even long-term problems. But then the engine in question has to be prepared for ethanol as fuel, of course. Best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline Hi all Would someone who has David Blume's Alcohol Can Be a Gas! please look up something for me? I can't get at my copy at the moment. What does Mr Blume say about blending 95% ethanol (190-proof) with gasoline? Miscible or not? Thanks! Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for Real Sustainability
Hello all, sincerely Swedish I have never heard of this article. Neither have I heard any of the conclusions in the article. The truth is that people driving flexible fuel cars fill with gasoline if the gasoline is cheaper than the E85 (15% gasoline, 85% ethanol). It is also true that the diesel car sector has been growing rapidly during the past years. But that was from a very low level, seen from European standards. How that can increase the CO2 is a riddle. The big CO2 cut is however in heat production. The heat power plants producing hot water for houses and flats are nowadays almost exclusively burring CO2 neutral fuels, such as waste vegetable oils. I do not think that the article has been published in Sweden, even though there are, even here, strong forces aiming to turn the energy consumption back to only fossil fuels and - in worst case- nuclear power. I suppose they are fighting that battle in other countries too. Jan W - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for Real Sustainability Something is rotten in the state of Sweden. Or not. But I do smell a dead rat in here somewhere. We have studies from the U.S. that switching from petro-fuel to electricity for transportation reduces emissions, including greenhouse gases, even when the electricity comes entirely from coal-fired plants. However, in Sweden, the primary energy sources are hydro and nuclear (over 90% of the generation from those two sources). Fossil sources produce considerably less than 10% of the electricity mix. (This document is a bit dated, but presents the information nicely in a graph on page 2. http://ec.europa.eu/energy/energy_policy/doc/factsheets/mix/mix_se_en.pdf) So, Sweden is switching from conventional gasoline and diesel vehicles to electric and plug-in hybrids, charging from a grid that is over 90% supplied from essentially zero-GHG sources, but the emissions are going up? And, the actual market penetration is still trivially small - I'm guessing well below 1% of the total road-going fleet in the country. Doesn't pass the smell test. Unfortunately, the article doesn't bother to cite the evidence used to support it's conclusion. My suspicion: the Swedish 'transportation sector' includes something other than private cars that might be driving the numbers up (e.g., ships burning bunker C crude). Actually, after a very limited Web search, I could not find anything credible that looked like the 'evidence' for the article - just lots of copy-cat items that also did not provide citations for the desired data. I did find this, dated January 2011: http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/change-in-total-ghg-emissions, which shows Sweden's transportation GHG emissions going up 9% from 1990 to 2008. The catch is that Sweden did not get serious about EV incentives until about 2008-2009, a time period not covered by the data for this report. Here's someone else's response (found while searching for the 'evidence'). http://dagblog.com/link/what-if-green-products-make-us-pollute-more-10581 (check the comments by quinn) Darryl On 11/06/2011 1:10 PM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/06/10-3 Published on Friday, June 10, 2011 by CommonDreams.org The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for Real Sustainability by Firmin DeBrabander What if electric cars made pollution worse, not better? What if they increased greenhouse gas emissions instead of decreasing them? Preposterous you say? Well, consider what's happened in Sweden. Through generous subsidies, Sweden aggressively pushed its citizens to trade in their cars for energy efficient replacements (hybrids, clean diesel vehicles, cars that run on ethanol). Sweden has been so successful in this initiative that it leads the world in per capita sales of 'green cars.' To everyone's surprise, however, greenhouse gas emissions from Sweden's transportation sector are up. Or perhaps we should not be so surprised after all. What do you expect when you put people in cars they feel good about driving (or at least less guilty), which are also cheap to buy and run? Naturally, they drive them more. So much more, in fact, that they obliterate energy gains made by increased fuel efficiency. We need to pay attention to this as GM and Nissan roll out their new green cars to great fanfare. The Chevy Volt, a hybrid with a lithium-ion battery, can go 35 miles on electric power alone (after charging over night, for example), and GM brags on its website that if you limit your daily driving to that distance, you can commute gas-free for an average of $1.50 a day. The Volt's price is listed at a very reasonable $33K (if you qualify for the maximum $7500 in tax credits). The fully electric Nissan
Re: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol
Hello all and Tom especially. There is a saying explaining that methanol is like ethanol but more. This is used to point out that the disadvantages of ethanol is more with methanol. I suppose that Ford is too mean to equip the fuel system for methanol.. Methanol is corrosive, even more that water. The engine will consume twice as much with metanol than with gasoline. And if I remember correctly, methanol has a higher vapour generating value than ethanol, meaning that it demands more energy to enter the gas phase, which can lead to cold starting problems. And during warm-up of the engine the methanol produces more of the even so corrosive substances, such as formaldehyde which also is poisonous. It is a well-known fact that most motor oils are not able to neutralize these corrosion agents, so one can expect an engine wear of twice the value than for gasoline. Apart from this is methanol an excellent fuel, especially if there was methanol from biological sources available. Best regards to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Tom Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:49 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol In an earlier post I asked about using a methanol/ethanol blend in my flex fuel Ford Ranger. It has been brought to my attention that Ford recommends against such a blend: Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can damage critical fuel systems components. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. Using heat exchangers is most of the time a good idea. Just keep in mind that they internally have to be acid resistant , at least down to pH 4, which corresponds to the acid constant of the free fatty acids, which you in any case will have. You are welcome and good luck. Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks Jan. I have opted NOT to use it in the hydronic system and decided instead to build a heat exchanger into the next phase of the processor instead. Thank you for the info. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 1:32:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
You are welcome. But have you analyzed the batch with the methanol test as initiated by undersigned ? That will give you useful information on the state of the batch. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Season's greetings
In accordance with Keith. Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Season's greetings Dear All Compliments of the season to all the Christians, happy solstice to everyone else, and here's wishing a happy, prosperous and wonderful New Year to one and all - everything you wish for yourselves. Have a great holiday! Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
Hello all, I just have to point out that castor oil was widely used as a lubricant during pre-industrial era and it was working very well. The reason for its absence nowadays is that the petroleum-based base oils in use nowadays (still) is cheaper. Anybody who is interested in how to use biological oils as raw materials for high-performance lubricants, feel free to adress me. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Dawie Coetzee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question Keith Or use some linseed oil, or this: Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps - A short guide to the technique by M. L. Allen, Prince of Songkla University, Thailand http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf Interesting, thanks. Flax is a wonderful thing, isn't it? I've often said that there's nothing wrong with pre-industrial linseed-oil-based paints, and that 99% the development of paint technology over the past century has been about nothing but faster drying times. That and getting rid of skilled labour, as is the case in the rest of industry, not to mention agriculture. That sounds hopeful. But wouldn't hammering along the edge thin the metal and expand it rather than compacting it? I'd thought of hammering in the middle to expand it, hopefully making the whole thing bulge out, but I didn't want to make the middle thinner, and weaker. Maybe if I started out with slightly thicker metal. And, indeed, heat it to light yellow. That was my initial reaction at the time, so I went back and re-read. Indeed, one hammers onto a dolly on anvil where one wants the metal shrunk. I'd guess that the resulting compaction influences the thermal expansion characteristics, causing the compacted metal to contract more when cooling. But as I said, I haven't had the opportunity to try it myself. I've just done a quick search (heat shrinking metal) and, as is often the case with crafts, there are differences both of technique and opinion out there. The technique I've described is found more among those who wish creatively to form compound curves out of flat sheetmetal. Those trying to remove dents in fenders and doorskins tend to favour a higher heat, hammering just off the heated area, and quenching with wet rags. A circular domed part of a car? I can't think of one, but I'll certainly have a look. Try the front and rear corners (unfortunately the areas most likely to be damaged) or the rear corners of roofs. And don't forget mechanical bits: I've made damper towers out of water pump pulleys! Simplest of all, see if steel merchants don't have what you want off the shelf. It's surprising what they do have. Round pole caps for palisade fences might just be perfect for the job. All the best -Dawie From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 11:29:19 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question Hi Dawie Keith It looks to me, unless I've misunderstood the failed attempt, that you want a worked sheetmetal piece rather than a casting or moulding. That's right. It's just thin metal, like a tin can. I think anything much heavier might upset the balance, which is just right - as you walk the cans more or less empty themselves, you don't have to tip them much, if at all. And then the trouble would be to get the domed shape into it: I take it the shape is necessary for the proper functioning of the rose. Yes, it widens the spread, and some of the water goes up, which extends the reach. The first thing that springs to mind is to scour vehicle breaker's yards for bits of body panels that have a suitable dome. As you only need a small piece an otherwise irreparable panel might do. A circular domed part of a car? I can't think of one, but I'll certainly have a look. Otherwise one could start with flat sheetmetal and work in the dome using traditional bodywork techniques. That's probably my problem, I don't know much about bodywork techniques. The problem is that one would be working in ungalvanized metal, though one could cold galv it afterwards. Or use some linseed oil, or this: Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps - A short guide to the technique by M. L. Allen, Prince of Songkla University, Thailand http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf To form the dome, heat a metal disc until a light yellow oxide bloom appears. Then hammer along the edge of the disc to compact the metal. You'll probably have to heat, hammer, and let cool a few times to achieve the desired domed shape. I haven't done this myself but have read somewhat on the subject. That sounds hopeful. But wouldn't hammering along the edge thin the metal and expand it rather than compacting it? I'd thought of hammering in the middle to expand it, hopefully making the whole thing bulge out, but I didn't want to make the middle
Re: [Biofuel] SVO Vehicles in USA
Hello Paul, maybe you know me from The Jan Warnqvist Methanol Test? I belong to that group of people that consider SVO as not suitable for diesel engines in general, simply because it is very difficult to have good function with SVO as fuel, even if the engines are equipped to handle that fuel, you will not be able to get over the obvious disadvantages with SVO: - High viscosity - (Too) High boiling point - (Too) Bad ignition properties - Unregulated content of metal salts which will generate deposits inside the engine. Biodiesel of good quality is a far better alternative, since all the biodiesel turns the above mentioned disadvantages to acceptable properties. And - the CO2 neutrality will be almost the same.so why go for SVO ? With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Paul Landis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:29 PM Subject: [Biofuel] SVO Vehicles in USA August 30, 2010 I am new to this list. I learned about SVO as Fuel from Keith and his great web site. I am NOT a technician. I am an activist who hates Oil Companies. I am looking to promote SVO as a capability here in the USA. Elsbett has people here in the USA and I have spoken to Taavi McMahon If any of you know people in the USA or are in the USA and would like to help let people know about the capabilities of SVO, especially if you have a vehicle that is so equipped, please let me know. Thank you. Paul Landis 50 Columbus Avenue Apt. F21 Tuckahoe, NY 10707 USA 914-771-9114 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100830/58ea8d14/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry
Hello Keith. Moles means molecules. There is one water molecule formed for each molecule of fatty acid alkylated. It is true that some water is produced during saponification of free acidity and it is also true that water is formed when mixing NaOH or KOH in an alcohol. But neither of these reactions are esterification or transesterification reactions.. It is considered that the transesterifiction reaction takes place in two or more steps, where the first step is the collapse of the glycerine-formed ester (the triglyceride etc) forming free glycerine and free acidity. Water is consumed in that step. In another step the new esters are formed where the equal amount of water is released. Conclusion: Some free water is good for the first step of the reaction. Does it make sense ? - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry Hello Jan Thankyou! The acid esterification produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid. I have difficulty with moles. I do know how to figure it out, in theory, but I'm not confident of the result. Would you mind writing it as a formula equation, if that's the right term: A + B -- D + E Moles gives quantities though, which I'd like to know. Is it possible to translate 1M /M alkylated fatty acid into ml of water per litre of oil or something similar? The trans-esterification does not produce any water, We've had people saying it does, and others that it doesn't. It's been said that some water is produced by the saponification of free fatty acids, though it's very little, and someone else said some water might be formed during the reaction that produces the methoxide: CH3OH + KOH --- CH3OK + H2O or CH3OH + NaOH --- CH3ONa + H2O Any comments? but some water present (0,1%) is necessary to make the process run well. I didn't know that. Can you explain how it works? I did know that esterification will also perform some transesterification if it has the chance, but it's slow. Thanks again Jan - all best to you Keith The acid esterification produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid. This process will also perform trans-esterification assuming that there is some material to trans-esterify and that the operator in question lets the process continue. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry Hello all A question... Even when everything is dry, including the oil, the transesterification process itself produces some water, though not very much. IIRC acid esterification also produces water, I think more water than transesterification does, and via a different process. Does anybody know if that's correct, and what the chemical equations are? With KOH and H2SO4. Thanks! All best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry
Hello Keith and all. The trans-esterification does not produce any water, but some water present (0,1%) is necessary to make the process run well. The acid esterification produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid. This process will also perform trans-esterification assuming that there is some material to trans-esterify and that the operator in question lets the process continue. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry Hello all A question... Even when everything is dry, including the oil, the transesterification process itself produces some water, though not very much. IIRC acid esterification also produces water, I think more water than transesterification does, and via a different process. Does anybody know if that's correct, and what the chemical equations are? With KOH and H2SO4. Thanks! All best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed
Hello Keith. Opposite your opinion, I am quite optimistic concerning the relation of cold properties/cetane number of the biodiesel. Palm oil, lard, or coconut oil do not have cloud points of -9 to -10oC. For instance, Palm oil biodiesel has a CFPP of +6 - +8oC and a cetane number of around 60. The cloud point is always higher than the CFPP, and the cloud point means less when it comes to driveability, especially since most additives when treating rape seed methyl ester can accomplish an improvement with 10o or more when it comes to the CFPP value. So I still find Cuphea oil biodiesel interesting. Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed Hello Jan Hello all. The Cuphea oil is similar to coconut oil with an iodine value of approx 17. This confirms its high content of saturated fatty acids, should as biodiesel create a nice cetane number. The catch could be the biodiesel final boiling point which should turn out scientifically lower that 350oC. Good or bad ? It would be nice to judge that from a report on the properties of Cuphea oil biodiesel. The other catch is the cloud point, I'm not sure I believe the report I quoted that it's -9 to -10 deg C, especially not as you confirm the low IV of 17. More likely it starts to gel as soon as the weather gets cool, same as palm oil, coconut oil, lard, etc. If it does, then one wonders why it's being promoted in the US as a substitute for palm oil. Hot tip: invest all your bucks and your grandmother's life savings in US companies making pour-point depressants. Ref. Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Further catch is that it's an awkward crop to process. The seeds are tiny, and they tend to shatter. Cuphea isn't really domesticated yet, it's more like a wild weed. Actually the biodiesel is just a sideshow, the main attraction is the caprylic and lauric acid, valuable industrial feedstocks, cloud point irrelevant. Industry enthusiasm, hm. In the US that means either B20 or B5, maybe a low cloud point doesn't matter if you're going to mix it with 80% or 95% petrodiesel. Best Keith Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed Hi Tony It should be okay for biodiesel, it's been raising quite a lot of enthusiasm in the industry in the US, but maybe that just means it's better than soy. It's supposed to be similar to palm oil and coconut oil (high caprylic and lauric acid content), yet the cloud point is low, -9 to -10 deg C. I didn't find an Iodine Value for it though. HTH - best Keith Hello List, Has anyone used cuphea for bio-fuel? If yes, what were the results? Any additional information is appreciated. Thanks Tony Marzolino 3624 Wilson Creek Rd, Berkshire, NY 13736 http://www.marzfarm.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed
Hello all. The Cuphea oil is similar to coconut oil with an iodine value of approx 17. This confirms its high content of saturated fatty acids, should as biodiesel create a nice cetane number. The catch could be the biodiesel final boiling point which should turn out scientifically lower that 350oC. Good or bad ? It would be nice to judge that from a report on the properties of Cuphea oil biodiesel. Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed Hi Tony It should be okay for biodiesel, it's been raising quite a lot of enthusiasm in the industry in the US, but maybe that just means it's better than soy. It's supposed to be similar to palm oil and coconut oil (high caprylic and lauric acid content), yet the cloud point is low, -9 to -10 deg C. I didn't find an Iodine Value for it though. HTH - best Keith Hello List, Has anyone used cuphea for bio-fuel? If yes, what were the results? Any additional information is appreciated. Thanks Tony Marzolino 3624 Wilson Creek Rd, Berkshire, NY 13736 http://www.marzfarm.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Merceds-Benz
Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe problems with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ? Jan W -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091017/d8f33aed/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz
I had a colleague whose MB 320 CDI suddenly broke down due to suspected injection pump scar. When you ask MB owners about this they all say: Neverthis cannot happen with a Mercedes- Benz! As a MB owner myself I am very curious about other´s experiences concerning this.. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz Haven't really heard either way. I have heard lots of rumors about quite a few of the common rail diesel's having problems with biodiesel, due to polymerization of the biodiesel at extremely high pressures that those engines have, but I cannot remember any details or specific examples of any of them right now. And I don't recall what sort of biodiesel and what iodine numbers they were running. Z On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe problems with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ? Jan W -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091017/d8f33aed/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091017/89a2786f/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz
Hello Keith, Zeke and all. If polymerisation is the issue should it be related to the oxidation stability of the BD. It should therefore be important to use anti-oxidants in order to improve the stability. The connection is higher pressure - higher temperatures - quicker polymerisation. And the higher the iodine number the lower stability. Sorry about that, ASTM. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz Hi Zeke, Jan and all Haven't really heard either way. I have heard lots of rumors about quite a few of the common rail diesel's having problems with biodiesel, due to polymerization of the biodiesel at extremely high pressures that those engines have, but I cannot remember any details or specific examples of any of them right now. Maybe they're just rumours, but I think DI diesels might indeed have problems with polymerised biodiesel in the US. But is it because of the high pressures? Can high pressure cause oxidation? I don't know, but it's only from US sources that I ever hear that. Most biodiesel in the US is soy biodiesel, which doesn't need high pressure to oxidise and polymerise, it's a semi-drying oil, it'll polymerise anyway. The IV is well above the EU biodiesel standard upper limit. (See Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine, National standards for biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds.) The biodiesel industry in the US seems to be more are less in denial about this, but then the US National Biodiesel Board is a creature of US Big Soy. Hm, I must check how the US-EU row over the US dumping cheap soy biodiesel on the EU market is progressing. IIRC last time I looked the US was accusing the EU of protectionism, on the basis of what sounded like GMO-style substantial equivalence of America's soy and Europe's rapeseed oil, though they're not equivalent when it comes to iodine values and polymerisation. Rapeseed oil has a much lower IV and is much less likely to polymerise. Nonetheless, a lot of Europeans use anti-oxidant with their biodiesel, while very little anti-oxidant is used in the US, by contrast. Also, in the US most biodiesel is the NBB's commercial B20, a low blend with a lower risk of polymerisation, so they have to care about it that much less. They're never going to accept that soy could be anything less than ideal. I get the impression that, even if there is such a thing, high-pressure polymerisation could be just a convenient scapegoat for soy's shortcomings. Best Keith And I don't recall what sort of biodiesel and what iodine numbers they were running. Z On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe problems with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ? Jan W ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz
hello Denise, I think that US BD is more or synonomous with soy biodiesel although it may be a myth. US is the biggest soy producer in the world and that is not a myth. - Original Message - From: denise farley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz Keith, Just out of sheer curiosity, where does the information that Most biodiesel in the US is soy biodiesel come from? I was wondering too, since I cannot find the information even on the NBB (unless I am blind which is never outside the realm of possibility), where might be a good source to look for a list of currently operating biodiesel plant? Ours closed and is in bankruptcy and of the other two in the local area, only one is operating. We couldn't compete even switching to animal fats - and all those inherent processing problems. Of course, the one operating is big-bucks AGP and, yes, uses soy. Hmmm. D'ya think I might have sort of answered my own question here? Although I will say there is a soybean processing coop south of here that ceased production of biodiesel in their facility for at least 6 months last I heard. They sold their soybean oil to AGP during that period. Sigh. Thanks so much! Denise On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Most biodiesel in the US is soy biodiesel, which doesn't need high pressure to oxidise and polymerise, it's a semi-drying oil, it'll polymerise anyway. The IV is well above the EU biodiesel standard upper limit. (See Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine, National standards for biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds.) The biodiesel industry in the US seems to be more are less in denial about this, but then the US National Biodiesel Board is a creature of US Big Soy. Hm, I must check how the US-EU row over the US dumping cheap soy biodiesel on the EU market is progressing. IIRC last time I looked the US was accusing the EU of protectionism, on the basis of what sounded like GMO-style substantial equivalence of America's soy and Europe's rapeseed oil, though they're not equivalent when it comes to iodine values and polymerisation. Rapeseed oil has a much lower IV and is much less likely to polymerise. Nonetheless, a lot of Europeans use anti-oxidant with their biodiesel, while very little anti-oxidant is used in the US, by contrast. Also, in the US most biodiesel is the NBB's commercial B20, a low blend with a lower risk of polymerisation, so they have to care about it that much less. They're never going to accept that soy could be anything less than ideal. I get the impression that, even if there is such a thing, high-pressure polymerisation could be just a convenient scapegoat for soy's shortcomings. Best Keith ___ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091017/f1fa8762/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. The standard solutions for titration are for example KOH 0,1M and KOH 0,5M which are corresponding to 5,61g and 28,05g of KOH / dm3. But the concentration of the titration solution really doesn´t matter as long as the analysis is performed correctly and that the acid number is calculated from the analysis, and that the compensation need is calculated from the acid number. Please note that NaOH has a lower mass than KOH, so the weight will be lower for the corresponding concentration. You did not say how much your sample mass was when having that result. Do that, and we will work the values out properly. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? Did I miss read the information on journey to forever? Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to have to find a new source. Thanks Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae??
Hello Doug et al. There are two major concern signs about biodiesel from algae oil: 1) The algae have to be fed with CO2 during growth. If this CO2 comes from fossile sources, you have achieved almost nothing. 2) The oil from algae is highly unsaturated. This makes it difficult to have the biodiesel meet the EN norm and other standards. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae?? Hi, I ran into a chap travelling around Australia extolling the virtues of running on SVO. He is to email me more details, but apparently there is a project in Australia involved with oil from Algae, aparently using CO2 feedstock from generation equipment. I googled to try to find more info, but only found foreign references from ~2005. Has anyone heard anything about this project? regards Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello Jonathan et al The main problem with SVO is the high boiling point. This includes both the FFA and the SVO molecule itself. The points of turning the SVO into biodiesel are the following: 1) The final boiling point of the fuel will not exceed 370oC, which is proper for modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 2) The viscosity will drop til approx. max 5cSt, which is acceptable to modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 3) Using the proper recipe when performing the process, the FFA will be reduced or saponified. This will make the fuel less corrosive, assuming that the alkaline metal content of the biodiesel is taken care of . 4) The chemically bounded glycerine in SVO will partially be released from the SVO in hot environment. The glycerine is hard to combust, since it rather forms deposits than CO2 and water. Best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071213/7291b188/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors
Hello Bruno et al. The viscosity and the high boiling point of SVO are just a consequence of the main molecule of SVO and its composition. The SVO consists from triglycerides together with some content of free acidity. Since we are mainly dealing with plant oils (or similar) we can expect the dominating fatty acid content to consist from oleic or linoic acid. These are C18:s which means that the triglyceride will have an approximate sum formula of C57H115O6 . This is a large molecule, which in itself is a reason for its combustion properties. Furthermore, the fatty acids are tied to a backbone of glycerine. This component can be extremely difficult to burn, since its urge to create polymeric compounds rather than vaporize is well known to anybody who have tried burning it. This property increases with the unsaturation of the oil. There are reports suggesting that highly saturated oils and fats are more easy to combust in diesel engines. So the sum is that biodiesel is more suitable than SVO. The additive we successfully tried was manufactured by Sybron Chemicals (SA) and consisted from phenolic compounds, which created soot which diluted the deposits. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Bruno M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors Jan, SVO having a high boiling point doesn't mean it can't be used instead of dinodiesel in a diesel car, because, ... normal Diesel fuel is also completely evaporated before combustion. What you need is a fine mist, not evaporated fuel in a diesel motor. Dino diesel has a boiling point, rather a boiling-range, between 340 and 400°C, so even dino juice will not be much vaporized at the time of ignition. But it's possible that the higher the viscosity, boiling point, and vapor pressure is, the more difficult it is for your dieselcar's hardware to make the ultimate mist who gives the ideal burning of all fuel components. Thats why SVO conversion kits alway's have a fuel heather device in it to lower the viscosity so the pump - injector combo can produce a optimal ( or as close as possible ) mist. At 95°C sunflower oil has around the same viscosity then DD at 15°C. DOE and other governmental organizations still claim that SVO will shorten the live span of your motor and more cooking and reduced motoroil live span will appear. Mixing with dinojuice or an additive can also help but is not the best or preferred option if you want to go fossil free. What additive did you use or tested? Grts Bruno M. ~~ At 18:30 20/11/2007, Jan wrote: Hi all, I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many reasons, but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. This means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable, also from the human health point of view. If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would be very interested to hear about it. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors See: The SVO vs biodiesel argument: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html = -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.1/1141 - Release Date: 20/11/2007 11:34 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors
Hi all, I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many reasons, but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. This means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable, also from the human health point of view. If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would be very interested to hear about it. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors See: The SVO vs biodiesel argument: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html SVO versus biodiesel is a pseudo argument that should not exist. It creates a false competitive situation between two good things and distracts from the real issues on how we can minimize the use of fossil fuels. - Hakan Falk So many SVO vendors take this approach. There's a growing market for SVO systems and for all ready-to-use biofuels solutions, why try to chisel off bits of the biodiesel market by spreading disinfo? I haven't seen Elsbett slagging biodiesel, for instance. But then (somehow it's no surprise) this is just yet another two-tank system, no optimised injector nozzles or anything a real system would have. We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable oil in Germany, they said. :-) Now what was it Greasecar told me... Throughout the world we are recognized as the leading manufacturer, seller and producer of SVO conversion equipment. LOL! --- http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/technology.php Theoretically there are three ways of using vegetable oil as fuel: 1. Manufacturing an engine especially designed to run with vegetable oil: At this moment in time, this version is inefficient, as the attitude of the automobile and mineral oil companies only allows a small quantity of these engines at high prices. Our aim is to change this attitude, distribute the vegetable oil technology and to establish the vegetable oil engine. 2. Adaptation of the vegetable oil to the existing engine technology: It is inefficient to change the vegetable oil into biodiesel using a lot of energy and chemical processes, which then destroy gaskets and tubes, decrease the engine's power and increases consumption when the natural fuel has already better features to offer. 3. Adaptation of existing engines to the natural vegetable oil: Our company has developed this from of technology. We install additional components in vehicles so a mode is selectable to use pure vegetable oil or diesel fuel without having to change the engine. Form and extent of the alteration depends on the technology of the diesel engine. 3E GmbH Pflanzenöltechnik From: Frank Wohlberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your link list Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:34:23 +0100 Hi Keith, is it possible to put a link of our company to your link list? We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable oil in Germany but I couldn`t find a link to us. Thank you very much! Regards Frank Wohlberg http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/index.php ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it.
Hello Guag et al. The reason for the Germans during ww2 to spend time and resources on collecting racial, religious and political non-approved people was simple: Idelogical. Germany was during this time built up on a lie and the money for this lie was borrowed from domestic and foreign lone providers so as for building up the war industry itself. It was necessary for the German government to keep this lie, since their complete build-up was based upon that. But, when it came to the final solution it grew forward little by little, goverened by directives from the government and performed practically by the lower parts of the administration with the concentration camps adminstrations in the bottom. There were meetings held where administrates discussed how to kill as many as effiectively as possible within a certain time frama = executing the directives from the government. So, the reason for spending resources on these collection activities was that they did not know how the final solution would look like. A completely mad system from the very beginning until the end, if you ask me. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 4:57 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it. Hi Keith and all List Members I like the part about Fred Dr. Death Leuchter, the designer of the US Prison system's execution apparatus, as an expert defense witness who tested purported execution gas chambers ON-SITE in Auschwitz, Poland tesitified in a court of law under oath and determined they had never been used to kill anyone. The other question I have is this. The war machine runs on fuel. During a time of war for Germany, fuel would be incredibly important. So why would the Germans waste precious fuel to transport all the prisioners to the camps if they intended to kill them? Wouldn't a sharp bayonette be much cheaper? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand 20th Anniversary of the Great Holocaust Trial by Michael A. Hoffman II Copyright 2005 by revisionisthistory.org January 7, 2005 marks the 20th anniversary of what came to be known throughout the world as The Great Holocaust Trial thanks chiefly to the drive, determination, courage and vision of one man, Ernst Zundel, supported by those he inspired. In 1985 Zundel was a German immigrant residing in Toronto, Canada where he had built a highly successful advertising and graphic arts business based in a rambling Victorian mansion in the bohemian Cabbagetown section of metropolitan Toronto. Zundel viewed the Six million story as a form of mental genocide against the German people; ostensibly a noble tale of the epoch struggle for human rights that in actuality was a form of devious hate propaganda, leveling every conceivable blood libel at the Germans and branding them with the Mark of Cain. Having survived the Allied firebombing of his native city of Pforzheim as a child, Zundel was well familiar with the war crimes of the hypocritical Allies and he made it his life's work to clear the name of his own people. For this commendable enterprise, Zundel had his mailing privileges revoked by the Canadian government in 1983, forcing him to open a post office box in Buffalo, New York and send a messenger to commute hundreds of miles just to receive mail. In 1985 he was charged under an archaic False News provision of an old Edwardian municipal code, for having published the pamphlet Did Six Million Really Die? He faced two years in prison if convicted. In reponse Zundel put the so-called Holocaust itself on trial, hiring a little-known maverick lawyer from British Columbia, Douglas Christie, to argue his case before Judge Hugh Locke. Seated next to Christie was the learned revisionist historian Prof. Robert Faurisson of France, who guided Christie's withering cross-examination of a long train of saintly 'Holocaust' survivors offered by the Crown. Zundel's defense was initially regarded by the press and public as preposterous. How can anyone deny the 'Holocaust? was the incredulous response to the news that Zundel would vigorously defend himself and the free speech rights of all Canadians. The trial was expected to be a quick and ignominious rout of Zundel and his motley crew. How wrong the odds-makers were! For the first time in history the holy survivors finally had to submit their testimony to scrutiny, to the rules of evidence and cross-examination, something that has never happened before or since. Seated in the press gallery, I watched as my colleagues of the fourth estate grew ever more surprised and shocked at the amazing admissions Christie and Faurisson elicited from the eyewitnesses to the gas chambers. TV reporters like Claud Adams and journalists from the Toronto Star and Globe and Mail produced footage and headlines
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol
Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in original,since the article is producing several question marks. It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , but as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny part of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point it is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious gases from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding value of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from BD of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem: 1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases become acceptably lower. 2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations. Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide No doubt has the information on the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight, No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still makes sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development to take another path than previous. You know what I mean. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Olivier Morf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece September 22, 2007 Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol By Lewis Smith A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests. Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from rapeseed and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than they save. Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties. Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before being hailed as a solution. ³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the researchers. Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel production. Professor Smith told Chemistry World: ³The significance of it is that the supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought hitherto.² It was accepted by the scientists that other factors, such as the use of fossil fuels to produce fertiliser, have yet to be fully analysed for their impact on overall figures. But they concluded that the biofuels ³can contribute as much or more to global warming by N2 O emissions than cooling by fossil-fuel savings². The research is published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, where it has been placed for open review. The research team was formed of scientists from Britain, the US and Germany, and included Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize for his work on ozone. Dr Franz Conen, of the University of Basel in Switzerland, described the study as an ³astounding insight². ³It is to be hoped that those
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil OrPetrol
Ok, my mistake. When reading the article this is not shown very clear. But nitrous oxide is N2O and nothing else. - Original Message - From: Chris Burck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil OrPetrol jan, the study was focused on NO2 released by soil microbes as the rapeseed crops grow, not on the emissions from burning the fuel. you make an excellent point, though. imo, we should *always* be searching for ways to reduce the impact of the fuels we burn. On 10/3/07, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in original,since the article is producing several question marks. It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , but as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny part of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point it is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious gases from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding value of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from BD of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem: 1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases become acceptably lower. 2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations. Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide No doubt has the information on the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight, No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still makes sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development to take another path than previous. You know what I mean. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Olivier Morf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece September 22, 2007 Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol By Lewis Smith A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests. Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from rapeseed and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than they save. Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties. Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before being hailed as a solution. ³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the researchers. Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel production. Professor Smith told Chemistry World: ³The significance of it is that the supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought
Re: [Biofuel] new topic
Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government to ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course. In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power will be green. As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas. But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big systems are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in itself is a reason to encourage small scale energy production. - Original Message - From: Michael Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as the existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only to comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have tens of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they own it all again. It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively owned ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all. Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are back to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and speculators. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new actors. So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance, intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from their power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on forehand: If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to decrease our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or independence will suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation for new technology, new solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, even to your nails. Jan Warnqvist -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/625bf774/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/0261f1f1/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] new topic
And further: The developing countries may be able to benefit very well from a more de-centralized energy production by taking advantage from the green techniques. An example: A farmer in Africa decides to grow Jatropha plants, because a near-by plantation has decided to produce biodiesel for their own consumption, since the availability of petrodiesel changes with the wheather and with rebel and government activities. The production cost for Jatropha oil biodiesel is far less than the cost of petrodiesel. The biodiesel and its by-products can also be used to generate electricity and give a surplus back on to the power network. A surplus that can be consumed by the farmer and his family. This will enable them to increase their standard and even increase the production of Jatropha oil. This is only one example of events that we in the company have seen taking place, although mostly concerning palm oil. - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic TRUE, governments have key role to play - the development of these new and clean energy systems need be regulated not just left to the multinationals to control everything at their PROFIT. serious cases will be to developing countries that have corrupt systems only to throw such precious lands at a token advantage. it is clear that these developments are going to spread decentralized energy sevices to remote areas that one could not think of. it should therefore be promoted with much regulation. Lugano Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government to ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course. In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power will be green. As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas. But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big systems are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in itself is a reason to encourage small scale energy production. - Original Message - From: Michael Miller To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as the existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only to comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have tens of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they own it all again. It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively owned ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all. Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are back to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and speculators. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt
[Biofuel] new topic
Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new actors. So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance, intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from their power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on forehand: If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to decrease our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or independence will suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation for new technology, new solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, even to your nails. Jan Warnqvist -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/625bf774/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt fromwvo
Hello Roderick. A definiyion is on its place: A salt is basically a compound built up from the reaction of a metal and an acid.There are other salts too, but we can leave them for now. This means that soaps are salts, since they are built up from metal ions (Na+ or K+ in connection with biodiesel) and fatty acids. These are formed as a by-reaction in the trans-esterification process, often encouraged by the water content. Salt in every-day talk is NaCl sodium chloride , where in this case the chlorine is fetched from HCl, hydrochloric acid. Does this spread any light to you ? You are using acetic acid to break the emulsion. This will create the salts potassium or sodium acetate and water. Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Roderick Roth To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt fromwvo Hello Jan May I jump into the discussion? Jan you have just mentioned the word salts isn't that one of the ingrediants for making very good quality soap? Hence possibly helping make a great emultion during the first wash on the quality esters. I am assuming that salts will remain in the whole process, not being disolved in any manner from the methoxide right? Some salt should be drained with the glycern right? Possibly leaving some salt in the unwashed ester. My last two reactions have had the same feedstock, ( a very popular restaurant which salts their fry's heavily, lol) both reactions were two stage acid/base reactions becos the titration is consistantly over 14 eww . Here are the wash results from both batches of Quality Tested BD: Reaction #21 using 1500L unwashed oil as a feedstock:the resulting 1380 Litre batch of quality BD required 3.5 litres of pure 99% vinagar to break the first wash emultion. Reaction #22 using 1500L PREWASHED oil of the same feedstock : the resulting 1450L batch only required 1 Litre of 99% pure vinagar, to break the first wash emultion. Jan does this observation make any sense? Think it could be salt? -Rod. Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Joe. There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.' Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Jan; Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and agitated again and did get an emulsion. I have had the feeling glycerin has usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them. No doubt a poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled. Remember we started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly completed run. BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my yahoo group! Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion. Now that's radical!!?? http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/ Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ?Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling TimeHi TomHi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops.I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use.I also took
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Tom Hi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops. I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use. I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought we did anyway. I think that both Joe and myself have standardize(d) the process so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception. That's not what Joe said: It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known already. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts and the unreacted oil will settle out. Then you can use the measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide. Assume neutral oil for this calculation. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. Will save you settling time in the long run. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. That if makes it a little ambiguous, but the regularly bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's the exception. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess, as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first place? Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: There's no need for titration, just use 6.25 g. And then using the methanol test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or standards test. What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing (whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and conducting the whole thing as a single stage. From Joe's replies so far I can't tell if he (and Rod, and Kenji and many others) are doing it that way or not, but it seems not: Your question (and mine): Don't you have to heat up the whole batch again? (Time and energy) Joe's reply: This is all done right after draining the glycerin. I leave the heater on during this period. Do the rough QT right away before wash test. Rough QT? Anyway, how long is it settling before he drains the glyc? I run a QT towards the end of the reaction because I do not want to re-process. Indeed not. It takes me a few minutes and I like the certainty of knowing the BD is good before I pump it into my settling tank. If the test should fail when I'm making a batch for my car, I could use Joe's suggestion to help me better approximate the amount of methanol to add. If the process has been standardized, why bother? I think this is a misunderstanding. I didn't say what you say below, standardized; can't fail, and I didn't mean that standardising the process means there's no need for tests, whether in-process tests or 1-litre test batches or whatever. Anything can fail. I'm all in favour of any tests that are helpful at any stage. So I agree with all you say here. Indeed, whatever rough might mean, using the methanol test to fine-tune the amount of extra methanol needed for reprocessing is a useful technique. But I'm not in favour of using reprocessing as a standard method, which, pending a better explanation, seems to be what's being proposed here. As you say: there shouldn't be any batches failing the QT. I've had a few failed batches in the past year. It seems to happen when I think I have it all figured out; standardized; can't fail. On one occasion the pump was making a bit of a funny noise when I
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hello Joe. There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.' Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Jan; Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and agitated again and did get an emulsion. I have had the feeling glycerin has usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them. No doubt a poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled. Remember we started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly completed run. BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my yahoo group! Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion. Now that's radical!!?? http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/ Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Tom Hi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops. I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use. I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought we did anyway. I think that both Joe and myself have standardize(d) the process so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception. That's not what Joe said: It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known already. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts and the unreacted oil will settle out. Then you can use the measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide. Assume neutral oil for this calculation. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. Will save you settling time in the long run. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. That if makes it a little ambiguous, but the regularly bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's the exception. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess, as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first place? Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: There's no need for titration, just use 6.25 g. And then using the methanol test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or standards test. What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing (whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and conducting the whole thing as a single stage. From Joe's replies so far I can't tell if he (and Rod, and Kenji and many others) are doing it that way
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test
Hello Shawn. You were looking at all methanol soluble components including the glycerine which is rather soluble in methanol. Separate the glycerine next time. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: shawn patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel Mailing List biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test Good Day All, My question is in regards to the Quality test develop by Jan Warnqvist. Is this test to be performed on the product before or after the glycerin has been removed, or does it matter. I performed the test with out removing glycerin and found that I got a clear bright phase except you could tell that there was a more dense substance at the bottom of the flask. I assumed that was the glycerin since just extracted a sample from the process without separating BD from glycerin. Does the glycerin dissolve in the methanol?? Was I looking at the unprocessed materials in my BD?? Regards Shawn Patrick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH
If mixed thourghly the ions from the biodiesel will be more attracted to the water phase than the biodiesel phase. The pH value of the biodiesel will reflect in the water phase. So the water phase is the place to do the measurement in. With best regards Jan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:54 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH hello, Yes, you are right Andres and Keith. I realise there is no need to measure pH of fresh oil, and to do a titration on the used oils instead, I was not specific enough. So when the wash water has a pH of 7, the biodiesel should also, as the ions should be equal in both solutions. is that right? By the way, whats virgin oil then? When doing the titration, as the 2 solutions of oil and methanol don't mix, do i just need to keep them vigorously shaken? Also would you suggest a pH meter for this step. Jan, When you say to use 10% biodiesel in 90% distiled water, mix, then let separate. Do you mean to test the biodiesel's or the water's pH? thankyou to all who replied. Josh. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor
Hello REXIS. The castor oil is highly questionable as a raw material for biodiesel production due to two important issues:: 1) The biodiesel from castor oil will have a too high viscosity well outside the specs. 2) The fatty acids of castor oil are very special and polymerize easily forming heavier compounds while releasing water. Unsuitable ? Yes. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Rexis Tree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor I had did some web study on Castor and Jatropha. Jatropha, being promoted as the perfect biodiesel crop by India, is receiving international highlights and many investors are interested or even start investing in planting this crop. This may spoil the original intension of promoting Jatropha, when large forest was cleared again to make way for Jatropha plantation rather then planting them on the wasteland or marginal land where india planned to do. Castor, the beautiful yet deadly seeds of castor, has been long used as an non edible oil source by mankind, as well as in other industrial application like paint, nylon, food addictive, lubricant, etc. And castor oil is a unuqie oil that it can completely dissolve in alcohol(not too sure what that means, no catalyst needed?). Our focus here is obviously biofuel. About which is the better choice for biodiesel. Similarity: - drought resistance - oily seeds sitable for fuel purpose - seed cake made an excellence manure - poisonious and therefore producing non eatable oil - a kind of weed Jatropha advantage - it is said that Jatropha would trive on all kind of soil even rocky soil - Higher oil yield - it can improve the soil quality Jatropha disadvantage - since it is relatively new crop therefore it was not well understood, and inaccurate yield figure estimation may harm profit, more research and real data required - Jatropha is suitable for India where large area of their land consist of arid wasteland, but may not be suitable to other country like those with lots of rain forest. Castor advantage - Castor oil is one of the oldest traded goods, mankind has been trading castor oil since a few thousand years ago - Castor oil has a lot of industrial usage, therefore a market is already exsistance, thou limited - Since it was cultivated before in commercial plantation, its biology is well understood, and high yield hybrid is available - Castor can be found in medium climate area as an annual crop or in tropical area as a small tree - faster oil yield and long term yield is possible for tropical/warm area Castor disadvantage - It is said that castor will exhaust the soil quickly, fertilizer required to maintain a large castor plantation for a reasonable yield, but castor can often been seen as weed growing without attension, therefore it is possible to plant it as marginal plant in unattended idle area. - it notorious poison is feared by the public, perhaps a research on castor poison(ricin) remedy is necessary. I do not have a conclusion currently, but as you can see, I am trying to open up Castor as an extra option here. Discussion: - Cultivation requirement: Jatropha maybe able to trive on most kind of soil, but I believe that to yield reasonable harvest, irrigation and fertilizer still required. Castor, while the cultivation requirement is better understood then Jatropha, it is still unknown about which one gets better yield if left unattended in a poor condition area, it is possible that each of them will exceed another under specific senarior, intercropping of castor and jatropha also an interesting subject. - Harvesting: it seems like it is more labourious to harvest Jatropha, which its yield grow as scattered fruit, yes, olive harvester can be modified to harvest Jatropha but it will involved high capital. Castor seem to be easier to harvest as its yeild made of a branch of fruit, worker can just cut the whole branch at once. - Toxicity: It seems that castor seeds are much more deadly then Jatropha, its toxic, which was being used in assasination, implies that it is extremely deadly and no remedy avaibale; however castor oil is perfectly harmless due to the fact that the toxic is only water soluble not oil soluble. Jatropha, even though toxic, in some case, was roasted and being eaten dangerously, but note that Jatropha toxic is deadly as well can kill a person by a 5-6 seeds, I am unable to find more articles about its toxicity and remedy about Jatropha here. Both plant is said can be detoxify by simply heating it and thurs destroying the toxic protein, confirmation needed here thou. - Cost: this is also a main factor, the lower input with higher outcome is desired. Any other topics are welcome. Just my 1/2 cents, top up or add on are most welcome. Regards
Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Off topic
There are a number of factors that in fluence the result of the trans-esterification. The general rule is that even if you have an extremly low content of tri-glycerides, you may still have di-glycerides or even, but seldom mono-glycerides out of spec. And this may be a sign of too low processing temperature. This subject demands more development than suited here, I´m afraid. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Off topic Hey Jan; Since the reaction proceeds in stages from TRi- to Di- to Mono-glycerides and then finally to esters, I'm wondering if there is a statistical relationship to the fractions?? In other words if we do a reaction and find 8% triglycerides remaining can we estimate the fractions of diglycerides and monoglycerides as well since they are unmeasureable with this test? Or would the ratios depend on what type of oil was being used and other factors such as FFA content? Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas Luke the Juggler 614-764-8010 www.LuketheJuggler.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Yes of course. It is very flattering. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Sorry, there is a confusing definition error in the formula: m1 = is the amount of undissolved material as a result of the test. m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction m3 = is the amount of biodiesel soluble in methanol in % All the best Jan - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Hello Peter. You forgot the first signs of the formula. It should be: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 In your case: 1 - 25/225 = 0,. There is also a definition error in the formula. m1 = the amount of undissolved material m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction m3= The amount of biodiesel that is dissolved in methanol in mass% Sorry about that. The proportions between methanol and biodiesel is carefully balanced in order to make the test reproducable. Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Hi Keith and Jan ; I read this with interest but I am quite confused. Please can we start by exlaining the underlying basis for this test?? Is it that unreacted oil will not dissolve in methanol? Are we trying to dissolve the FAME in methanol and measure the remaining?? If we are, then why is it so important to measure exactly 225g methanol. Why wouldn't 250g be OK for example?? I can understand exactly 25g of biodiesel is necessary, but why exactly 225g methanol? Perhaps I missed this in a previous post. Then when I try an example with your formula I again get confused. Let's say we have perfect biodiesel. So this means all of if will dissolve in the methanol, right? By your formula : m3=m1/m2 m3=25g/225g m3= 0.1 So 0.111 is how much of the FAME is methyl esters for perfect FAME? What does this mean?? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pH meters
Yes, Andres Secco is right. If you want to determine the free acidity of the virgin oil, you should use titration. But if you want to determine the pH value of the finished biodiesel (which should be close to 7) a pH meter is handy. But the pH has to be measured in a water phase, e.g. 10% biodiesel in distilled water, Just make sure that you first let the biodiesel and water to mix properly and then separate compleatly after that. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH meters Why a pH meter Joshua?. Acidity does not makes sense in an oil phase. The right thing is to make a titration pH has no sense nor numeric sense in a non aqueous systems - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:35 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pH meters Hello, Im making some biodiesel and I'm having some difficulty finding a reasonably priced electronic pH meter to purchase so I can test the virgin oil and the resulting biodiesel. it would be appreciated if anyone with an answer or some knowledge in this area could steer me in the right direction. Joshua ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Meth test (was Off topic)
Thank you Joe. The determination by mass will give you a more precise idea of the methyl ester content. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:59 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Hey Jan; Let me take the chance to thank you again for your contributions. Also I'd like to let you know how WE have evolved your idea. Me and this other dude in town ( who might be lurking herelol - it was his idea actually) have taken to doing some kind of variation on your idea which helps us in the middle of the process. I know you are talking about testing clean, washed and dried fuel, but check this out; We take a sample ( I have a small test tube so I use 3 ml of fuel and 27 ml meoh) after the reaction but before washing. I know this contains catalyst, soap, water and whatever BUT when I stir it up, any unreacted oil settles out very quickly and gives me a gauge of how close I came to a complete reaction. I can even measure the percentage of unreacted oil and use this to determine how much catalyst and methanol to hit the reactor with in order to complete the reaction. The unreacted stuff is treated as neutral oil when determining catalyst and methanol amounts ( ie 12% meoh v/v and 4.9 g/l koh) If I am good and the reaction was very complete the first time, then only a little white powder (soap/catalyst?) settles in the bottom and the rest is clear and bright. This is more useful than a pop bottle wash test IMHO. best regards Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas
Re: [Biofuel] Off topic
Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas Luke the Juggler 614-764-8010 www.LuketheJuggler.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Change is good. See what’s different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel
[Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very beginning. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for years and he's just now experiencing problems? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Yes, he has. Once was enough. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels Ask him if he's replaced his fuel filter since switching to Biodiesel. On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very beginning. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for years and he's just now experiencing problems? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Hello Keith. He is in Sweden on rapeseed BD. But, as far as I remember, somebody in the US wrote about some similar problems with his Chevy. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist Where is he, Jan? In Sweden or in the US? In other words is he using rapeseed biodiesel or soy biodiesel? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acids
Hello Robin et al. The acidic step is necessary for neutralisation of the biodiesel. But, basically any mineral acid can be used. The most common (and efficient ?) is concentrated sulphuric acid. Even hydrochloric acid can be used, however usually available as 35-36% solution. For neutralisation similar amounts of phosphoric and sulphuric acid are required, all according to the need for neutralisation. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Robin Pentney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Acids Hi! Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the Phosphoric acid in the 'Foolproof method? I would like to try it (the method) but phosphoric is only made in Alberta by a fertilizer mfr just down the road from me, but they will only make enough for themselves. Rats! The oilfield creates a huge demand for it here, so the suppliers who ship it up from the states or from Winnipeg mark it up mercilessly. $158.00 for a 20 L pail! It is 75% so there's lots of diluting to do , but still Can I use another acid for the wash? Can you describe the reaction for me ( a neophyte ) In the wash process so I can fully understand it? I am striving to achieve the best quality fuel possible so that others will not be discouraged when if they see me sitting at the side of the road beside my car , with the hood up and my thumb out What would I dilute the 75% phosporic with? Distilled water? Tnx Robin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
Ken, the important thing is that you do the measurements necessary in order to decide how to proceed. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Jan, Ken, I have pushed the procedure to double the acid amount in the first phase, dewatered and went to the second phase (base base) in small batches without problem. I suggest testing in small amounts and working up a procedure that fits the product. This will take some time to do but when you get it you can get repeatbility thereafter. I did use Venturi acid introduction so that perhaps makes a big difference as well. Jim From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:48:10 +0100 If you have that much tri-glycerides you may most likely do one acid esterification followed by one base trans-esterification. Just check the FFA value after the first step after removal of the (acidic) water phase. If the FFA value is 5%, go as described above, in any other case as described before. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Thanks again Jan. Its 71.8% FFA. But doing acid esterification twice? Do you finish with a base transesterification after the two acid esterification? Please pardon my ignorance. Can you expound a bit. First time to hear about acid esterification twice. Appreciate very much your help on the matter. Thanks. Ken - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do the ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Thanks Jan, So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to go on this one? Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the base-based stage. That's doing it twice right? Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100 liters veg. oil). Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference? Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize myself. Looks like it. Much thanks again. Ken - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hello Ken, fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed water has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water content. Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. Usually these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion grade. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, I sent this out a few days ago. I was told by someone in the oil mill that crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds or reject oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. Anyone has any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel? Will such a high FFA content give problems? Thanks. Ken - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty acid distillate which they can give me with the following specifications : Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric) - 71.8% Iodine Value mg I/g - 10 Total Fatty Matter- 96% Moisture Impurities - 0.5% Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g - 260 Unsaponifiable Matter- 0.32% I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend of WVO and new oil on the single stage process
Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do the ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Thanks Jan, So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to go on this one? Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the base-based stage. That's doing it twice right? Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100 liters veg. oil). Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference? Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize myself. Looks like it. Much thanks again. Ken - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hello Ken, fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed water has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water content. Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. Usually these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion grade. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, I sent this out a few days ago. I was told by someone in the oil mill that crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds or reject oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. Anyone has any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel? Will such a high FFA content give problems? Thanks. Ken - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty acid distillate which they can give me with the following specifications : Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric) - 71.8% Iodine Value mg I/g - 10 Total Fatty Matter- 96% Moisture Impurities - 0.5% Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g - 260 Unsaponifiable Matter- 0.32% I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend of WVO and new oil on the single stage process. I've read up on the two stage process and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with 71.8% FFA. Am I right? Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter? Its free stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly. Would it be better to blend it or process it separately? Thanks Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
Hello Ken, fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed water has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water content. Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. Usually these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion grade. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, I sent this out a few days ago. I was told by someone in the oil mill that crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds or reject oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. Anyone has any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel? Will such a high FFA content give problems? Thanks. Ken - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate Hi everyone, An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty acid distillate which they can give me with the following specifications : Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric) - 71.8% Iodine Value mg I/g - 10 Total Fatty Matter- 96% Moisture Impurities - 0.5% Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g - 260 Unsaponifiable Matter- 0.32% I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend of WVO and new oil on the single stage process. I've read up on the two stage process and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with 71.8% FFA. Am I right? Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter? Its free stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly. Would it be better to blend it or process it separately? Thanks Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Question
Hi all, came across some info on Jatropha oil recently. The oil from some spieces is considered non-edible, but I have found no reason for it. Can somebody spread a little light on this ? Jan Warnqvist aGERATEC AB___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis
Hello Doug, Andrew et al. Hydrogen gas has a fine heat value, which makes it very interesting as an energy source. However, as Doug pointed out, it will be necessary to obtain the energy for the electrolysis from an outer source, why not from solar cells, to make the energy balance favourable. Good Luck ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis What this amounts to is a really lousy, incompetent attempt at a perpetual motion machine. You have to put in the energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen, then you get back the same energy when they recombine. There would be no surplus to run the vehicle even if every stage was perfectly efficient, which they are very far from being. Doug Woodard St, Catharines, Ontario, Canada Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle. http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it? Thanks, Andrew ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use
Hello Ken, Charles et al. Ethanol can be somewhat tricky to deal with when it comes to producing biodiesel. The glycerine drop is related to the amount of ethyl esters that you have created during the process. This is suggesting that you will need a certain qty of ethyl esters produced in order to have a spontaneous glycerol drop. To make sure that you have a sufficient amount, the ethanol stochiometric surplus should be at least 75% or rather 100%. The stochiometric relationships are much more important than increasing of the reaction temperature, say 5 or 10 degrees. But also note that the ethanol inserted has to be anhydrous. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use On Aug 21, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Charles List wrote: I would like to know, however, if I can increase the temperature of the reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction as ethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C. You probably could, but the separation of glycerol takes such a long time with ethanol (hours maybe), and the reactants are all in solution that whole time (completely clear, single phase), that you probably don't need more than the usual heating to get the reaction to go as far as it will. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water content - was tirating a virgin oil
Hello Joe. If you are trying to recycle the surplus methanol you should be aware of this: MeOH + KOH MeO + K+ + H2O Methanol and potassium hydroxide will form water. That is your first water source. The second is the water content of the fresh methanol which should be below 0,5%. The third water source is the oil, max water content 0,5%. And if you add 1kg of KOH you can expect it form 0,322 kgs of water as it dissolves in the methanol. So for a batch of 1000 kgs, these are the actual water contents: Oil: 5 kgs Methanol : 1kg KOH (20kg): 6,45 kgs 12,45 kgs of water = 1,25% So now you can understand why itcan benecessary to dry the oil. To decrease the water content further I suggest that you purchase ready-made anhydrous catalyst, such as Potassium or Sodium Methoxide. In this case the surplus methanol will have a low water content and will be recyclable. For the water in methanol tests I can only say that this gravimetric method of yours is difficult. So far there is no simple quick and reliable method to do this. Best of luck to you ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water content - was tirating a virgin oil Jan;Further to my post from yesterday regarding the 0.5% water in oil as a limit; I am assuming that this percentage relies on fairly anhydrous methoxide, and therefore is the maximum water that the process can tolerate. Is this a safe assumption? And if so would it be safe then to assume that if the oil is very dry the same absolute amount of water could be present in another source? I am asking because I am working on methanol recovery now. I can dry my oil quite well with vacuum and heat but recovered methanol always has significant water. If I assume methanol is added at 20% of oil volume then the same absolute volume of water present in the methanol can be 5 times higher i.e. 2.5% instread of 0.5% of oil volume? Is this correct? If so then I need only dry my methanol to 97.5% to get good results with very dry oil. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.I have purchased a hydrometer in the 0.790 to 0.900 range so that I can test the water content of recovered methanol. The hydrometer is calibrated for 15 degrees C which is cooler than room temperature. Also there is the problem that if I add 50 ml methanol and 50 ml water I don't get 100 ml of liquid! Rather than try to compensate the readings what I have decided to do is start with pure methanol and add small amounts of water and record the readings at room temperature to produce my own table based on percentages by volume. I will post these results so that others can benefit from it. My first test which was a mixture of methanol recovered from fuel mixed with methanol recovered from glycerin cocktail measured 0.813 at RT. That's a lot of water. Sigh.Stay tuned for more.JoeJan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "EMRE ELMAS" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you pro
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hello Tom. Yes, it is likely that the high FFA content of the oil caused you problems with the methanol test. But, the water content is also important. You should get yourself a water test kit. One way of pre-treatment is to do a two-step process. After the first alkaline step, take off the glycerol and process the oil/ester with methanol and sulphuric acid as catalyst. This will give you a very high ester content. The amount of acid added has to be calculated upon the original FFA value, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Jan, You wrote: The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. I have been blending the WVO I collect - titration of 2 - 3 g of 90%KOH/L. I recently ran a 76L batch of poor quality WVO . It titrated at 5.5g of 90%KOH/L. For the first time in months, the BD I produced failed the methanol quality test not bad, but there were tiny buggers that did not dissolve. I have been troubled by the failed test. I have never used WVO that titrated above 4g 90% KOH/L. 1. Is it reasonable assume that the failure to make quality BD was due to the poor quality of the WVO I used? 2. What pre-treatment would be appropriate? Tom - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: EMRE ELMAS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it
Hello Lugano et al. As a Swedish native I can provide a more detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this country. There are a number of buts: - The power companies are not allowed to increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because thereis environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side effects. - Biodiesel has never been a popular product within any administration in this country. This is probably because biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were in control of the energy production as well. - The petroleum supplies to this country have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be considered asa tooadventurous project. - The result of next election can very well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. - The automotive industry, not only the Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country as Sweden, the automotive industry is very power-ful, and used to havingits way. Jan Warnqvist + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it Yes, Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme. further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, etc. the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are spearheading research, development and utilization. follow the following links for: 1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 2: green vehicles http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 have a nice week end. Lugano Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hellow every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood luckMark___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 204Fax: 0046 8 207 681.. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytof
Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it
Hello Lugano et al. As a Swedish native I can provide a more detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this country. There are a number of buts: - The power companies are not allowed to increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because thereis environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side effects. - Biodiesel has never been a popular product within any administration in this country. This is probably because biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were in control of the energy production as well. - The petroleum supplies to this country have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be considered asa tooadventurous project. - The result of next election can very well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. - The automotive industry, not only the Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country as Sweden, the automotive industry is very power-ful, and used to havingits way. Jan Warnqvist + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it Yes, Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme. further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, etc. the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are spearheading research, development and utilization. follow the following links for: 1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 2: green vehicles http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 have a nice week end. Lugano Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hellow every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood luckMark___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 204Fax: 0046 8 207 681.. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytof
Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil
Yes,both Keith and David are right. Unless you are referring to palm oil, which have an unusual fatty acid composition, the amount of glycerine in most vegetable oils is roughly 10% by mass. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil Is there a chemist amongst our ranks that can that can quantify % and molar, how much glycerin is in 1 liter of soybean oil? tallow? canola? Fish? (all virgin)Seems like spend time pondering questions like this of late. Any one know? Jim Hello Jim The rule of thumb is 79 millilitres of glycerine for every litre of oil used (7.9%). -- How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? Make your own biodiesel - page 2: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More information here: How much methanol? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html HTH. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
Håkan, it is obvious that no patent or manufacturing lisence will last for one houndrad years, espcecially considering the development of the diesel engine. But Scania is the inheritar of the original diesel engine. However, it is not flattering for us Swedes to be so historically involved and possibly even having promoted the petroleum substitute for the diesel engine. Particulary not, since there is a common imagnination that the discovery of petroleum made it possible for the combustion engine to arise, because of the unique properties of petroleum. Jan - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Jan, Manufacturing rights as a whole to the diesel engine cannot be owned by Scania, only certain modifications that are done the last 25 years. It is no legal way, that I know of, to protect the original diesel engine for 100 years. The only legal way to protect manufacturing rights, is through patents and even they are not protected in certain countries. Patents are only valid for 25 years and the normal way is to patent modifications/enhancements to the original patent to prolong the patent protection of the most competitive product. Diesel might have had the idea as student, but he had financing for his development from the German coal industry. The contract was to develop his engine to run on coal dust. That is why there are always mentioning of coal dust, in conjunction with diesel. Kerrosene was at the time and today, used for lamps and heating. It is also a quality of kerrosene used for dry cleaning. The quality of crude that are economical for gasoline, will end before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand principles are governing the situation, the price gap between diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel. When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation. Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is a much more complex situation. Hakan At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote: Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel. He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several fuels ; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to supply the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas Copco Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel, the founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But the time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now owned by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group. The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have access to diesel engine fuel, period. We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming up in practice, don´t you think ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Mike The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or egg. Did Rudolf invent the fuel? He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it to fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources. I have been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral oil known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable oils in his early engines. Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil? Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic drinks or one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why? Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of Edzels conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in cans. How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make them able to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about correct, late model T and early model A, AA and AAA. Note the model AAA (Triple A) was still run on ethanol as was not outlawed as far as my trips and research shows. The globe
Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
No I do not have a connection to Atlas Copco, but I know a little something about Rudolf Diesel. Jan - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Jan, I did work with Atlas Copco as consultant in acoustics, when they developed the silent compressors. At the time I was employed by Stellan Dahlstedt, Akustik Konsult AB. It was very interesting insights in both diesel and compressor technology. The person in charge of their acoustic lab. was an ex. employee in Akustik Konsult. I tell you this, because you obviously have a connection to them. It was around 40 years ago and I moved out of Sweden almost 30 years ago, to work full time with CAD/CAM and network products. The final line of compressors became trend setters in the market and a large success. Håkan At 11:06 09/06/2006, you wrote: Håkan, it is obvious that no patent or manufacturing lisence will last for one houndrad years, espcecially considering the development of the diesel engine. But Scania is the inheritar of the original diesel engine. However, it is not flattering for us Swedes to be so historically involved and possibly even having promoted the petroleum substitute for the diesel engine. Particulary not, since there is a common imagnination that the discovery of petroleum made it possible for the combustion engine to arise, because of the unique properties of petroleum. Jan - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Jan, Manufacturing rights as a whole to the diesel engine cannot be owned by Scania, only certain modifications that are done the last 25 years. It is no legal way, that I know of, to protect the original diesel engine for 100 years. The only legal way to protect manufacturing rights, is through patents and even they are not protected in certain countries. Patents are only valid for 25 years and the normal way is to patent modifications/enhancements to the original patent to prolong the patent protection of the most competitive product. Diesel might have had the idea as student, but he had financing for his development from the German coal industry. The contract was to develop his engine to run on coal dust. That is why there are always mentioning of coal dust, in conjunction with diesel. Kerrosene was at the time and today, used for lamps and heating. It is also a quality of kerrosene used for dry cleaning. The quality of crude that are economical for gasoline, will end before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand principles are governing the situation, the price gap between diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel. When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation. Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is a much more complex situation. Hakan At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote: Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel. He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several fuels ; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to supply the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas Copco Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel, the founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But the time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now owned by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group. The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have access to diesel engine fuel, period. We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming up in practice, don´t you think ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Mike The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or egg. Did Rudolf invent the fuel? He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it to fit into land
Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
Nobel, the founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But the time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now owned by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group. The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have access to diesel engine fuel, period. We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming up in practice, don´t you think ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Mike The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or egg. Did Rudolf invent the fuel? He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it to fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources. I have been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral oil known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable oils in his early engines. Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil? Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic drinks or one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why? Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of Edzels conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in cans. How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make them able to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about correct, late model T and early model A, AA and AAA. Note the model AAA (Triple A) was still run on ethanol as was not outlawed as far as my trips and research shows. The globe was already controlled by the oil industry. Sloan, the most powerfull man at the time, could not perhaps change this or was in agreement with the oil industry. * Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp. In fact, when the diesel engine was first introduced at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran on peanut oil. * Two decades later, Henry Ford was designing his Model Ts to run on ethanol made from hemp. He envisioned the entire mass-produced Model T automobile line would run on ethanol derived from crops grown in the U.S. * Even in the 1920s, the oil industry had massive lobbying power in Washington. Lobbyists convinced policymakers to create laws favoring petroleum based fuels while disgarding the ethanol option. * Nearly a century later, amidst oil wars in the Middle East, Global Warming, and a nearly depleted oil supply, the U.S. government is finally shifting attention to fuels that are more along the lines of Diesel and Ford's original ideas. * In an interview with the New York Times in 1925, Henry Ford said: The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years. Whose water is it? *Learn more:* http://www.organicconsumers.org/2006/article_658.cfm http://alerts.organicconsumers.org/trk/click?ref=zqtbkk3um_0-ax332x3239551; ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand principles are governing the situation, the price gap between diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel. When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation. Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is a much more complex situation. Hakan At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote: Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel. He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several fuels ; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to supply the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas Copco Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel, the founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But the time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now owned by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group. The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have access to diesel engine fuel, period. We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming up in practice, don´t you think ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future Mike The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or egg. Did Rudolf invent the fuel? He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it to fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources. I have been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral oil known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable oils in his early engines. Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil? Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic drinks or one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why? Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of Edzels conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in cans. How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make them able to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about correct, late model T and early model A, AA and AAA. Note the model AAA (Triple A) was still run on ethanol as was not outlawed as far as my trips and research shows. The globe was already controlled by the oil industry. Sloan, the most powerfull man at the time, could not perhaps change this or was in agreement with the oil industry. * Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp. In fact, when the diesel engine was first introduced at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran on peanut oil. * Two decades later, Henry Ford was designing his Model Ts to run on ethanol made from hemp. He envisioned the entire mass-produced Model T automobile line would run on ethanol derived from crops grown in the U.S. * Even in the 1920s, the oil industry had massive lobbying power in Washington. Lobbyists convinced policymakers to create laws favoring petroleum based fuels while disgarding the ethanol option. * Nearly a century later, amidst oil wars in the Middle East, Global Warming, and a nearly depleted oil supply, the U.S. government is finally shifting attention to fuels that are more along the lines of Diesel and Ford's original ideas. * In an interview with the New York Times in 1925, Henry Ford said: The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for diesel engines
Just wanting to make some remarks . The Scania ethanol buses are running on a special ethanol quality blend consisting from ethanol (95%), a cetane improver called Bereid, which I am told is a polyglycol, and a lubricant. The injection timing is normal (approx 20 degrees before TDC) and all engines are equipped with intercooler which functions as an air heater when the engine runs on idle. Ethanol is not self-evident as a diesel fuel, but progress has been done. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: FRANCISCO To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for diesel engines HiEthanol is close to gasoline when referring to fueling energy to an engine. Therefore cetane number is low even though ethanol prefers higher pressure than regular gasoline. So ethanol diesel blend to be viable as fuel and easy the blending has to have two supports: cetane improver additive to easy combustion and a electronic/software combination which can adjust ignition timing and pumpin all the time. ( Please remember atomiztion is diferent also!) In order to reduce the amount of additive ( very expensive and it is like TNT - worsening stability) I assume they use some diesel so it helps ignition (Please note) This reminds me the natural gas/diesel dual fuel engine where the diesel is used as the spark plug and the electronics do the rest. Please remember when we have two types of fuel two explosions will always happen and in the case of the diesel/cetane improver/alcohol we might have three explosions and this is not good for the engine so in the long run efficiency is jeopardize severely.Hakan you are right: The cetane improver experiences with alcohol have been done a long time by Scania and in fact they tried to introduce this technology in Brasil. It is not used because it was considered too expensive. The consumption should be much higher than the 100% diesel ( energy content per mass and volume admission in the combustion chamber ) and considering the new refining technologies the emissions of the new blend should not be better. We still do not know the effect of aldehyde on the environment a please pay attention nitrates generates NOx thru exhaust pipe and aldehyde and NOx are always there when using alcohol. Also diesel engines do operate at higher temperatures and this can affect exhaust gases worsening emissions environmentally speaking.In my opinion we have to scrutinize this approach thouruglly and this approach it is not novel. I love ppo svo and biodiesel.very best fo rall of usChicHakan Falk wrote: Keith, If I remembered right, the Swedish diesel buses are running on a wood alcohol mix, with some sort of additive. In Sweden it is now more and more common that the buses use biofuel. Hakan At 18:47 07/06/2006, you wrote: Hi Tomas Hi, this one fuel combination is interesting. I've never heard about such possibility before: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/06/xcelplus_acquir.html -- Tomas Juknevicius Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, (July 2003, 992kb pdf) http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel by S.W. Mathewson Chapter 3 UTILIZATION OF ALCOHOL FUELS Diesel Engines http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood
Hello Steve et al, if my memory isn¨t fooling me, is there a fatty acid fraction in tall oil. The composition of this reminds very much of that of soy bean oil. But it takes a lot of distilling and fractionizing to get this fatty acid fraction clean enough. Wood is more suitable for ethanol production I think. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Steve Knox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood I believe that there is a company in Germany (CHOREN) who makes biodiesel from wood. If my memory is correct, they're getting about 60 or so gallons per ton. A major oil company has bought an interest in the company. Steve - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood Using wood as feedstock means using either lignin or cellulose, right? If so, alot of stuff could be made into biodiesel -- grass, weeds, cardboard, etc... Thermo catalytic cracking is the only thing I can think of that could do this. Unless they have some fancy microbes that can digest lignin and give oil? I also remember that in WWII germany was trying to distill gasoline substitutes from pine trees -- I thought this was more like turpentine though, derived more from the sap than the wood? I'm not an expert on this by any means, but perhaps someone else remembers exactly what they were doing. Zeke On 6/1/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone heard of such a thing? It says Wood-based biodiesel production requires the development of new technology. Are they on to something or are they still working out if this is even possible? Steve http://snipurl.com/r8b3 (2006-05-26) Hydro and Norske Skog have agreed to carry out a joint feasibility study relating to the production of biodiesel from wood. The intention is to identify the feasibility of establishing a biodiesel production facility in south-east Norway. Such a plant could come on stream by 2012 at the earliest. We consider ourselves to be natural partners as far as wood-based biodiesel is concerned. Hydro has wide experience derived from the construction and operation of major processing plants and from the quest to find new forms of energy. Norske Skog has considerable expertise when it comes to wood purchasing and treating wood pulp, say senior vice president Alexandra Bech Gjørv of Hydro and vice president Terje Engevik of Norske Skog. A technically superior product The production of biodiesel is currently based on rapeseed or other oil-based raw materials. Wood-based biodiesel production requires the development of new technology. Once this technology is in place, it will be possible to offer an even better product than today?s biodiesel. Today only a five-percent biodiesel tank mixture is available. Wood-based biodiesel will give us a technically superior product without such limitations. By using timber we can also utilize a much greater proportion of the raw material and considerably reduce greenhouse gas emissions compared with biodiesel produced from rapeseed or other plant oils. This means that wood-based biodiesel will be a an even more environmentally friendly fuel than today?s biodiesel, the two companies say in a press release. NEW ENERGY: Alexandra Bech Gjørv is responsible for Hydro's efforts to develop renewable energy. (Photo: Kåre Foss) Long road to completion The road to completion of a possible production plant is, however, a long one. To begin with, collaboration between the two companies involves a feasibility study that will primarily provide an overview of the technologies available in the market, identify the availability of raw materials, and create a realistic picture of the external governing conditions that must be in place in order to reach an investment decision. CO2 emissions represent a climate threat that affects all of us, and we can see that the political will exists to promote biodiesel as an environmentally friendly alternative to regular fuels. There is great potential for biodiesel in the market of the future, but if this market is going to materialize we are in need of a sound, long-term operating framework from the authorities, state Bech Gjørv and Engevik. Author: Lars Nermoen Published: 2006-05-26 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman
[Biofuel] American diesels
Hello everybody in the Americas! I have one question for you concerning BD and the cars consuming it. It seems as if you all are prefering European cars for fueling BD instead of American diesels. Is that true, and in this case why? Arn´t GM:s diesels good for BD ? Jan Warnqvist BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Warnqvist;Jan FN:Jan Warnqvist ORG:AGERATEC AB TEL;WORK;VOICE:+46 11 33 53 70 TEL;CELL;VOICE:+46 70 4993845 URL;WORK:http://www.ageratec.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20060518T194543Z END:VCARD ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Hello Jason and Kate, the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the trick. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
Hello Zeke et al. A very unscientific trial feeding sugar into the air intake(without air filter) suggested that sugar does not harm the engine at all, just combusting together with tha gasoline. According to this experiment, the melting points and boiling points of the sugar (sackarose) are rather close. Jan AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO What exactly would sugar do to an engine? The worst I can think of is clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits. Zeke On 3/22/06, Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is an old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine. Reg'ds Bob - Original Message - From: ROY Washbish To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO Hi All Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp? Isn't that lard full of sugar? Roy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Hello Tom, if your titration value is 1,9 , there is no need for additional treatment, since the acidic ions from the vinegar will be included in the titration value. However, you shoulddetermine the water content of the oil before processing it. A good value here is max 0,5%. Yes, you are right, the oxonium ions from the vinegar will produce water when neutralized and the complete reaction will be the following : H3O+ + Ac- + Na+ + OH- 2 H2O + Na+ Ac- but NaOH in methanol and in oil with some vinegar the following reaction takes place: Na+ + MeO - + H3O + Ac- + H2O MeOH + Na+ Ac- + 2 H2O This means that instead of one extra water molecule you will produce one molecule of methanol, since sodium hydroxide will form sodium methoxide and water in methanol. It is of some comfort, isn´t it ? Best of luck to you ! Jan Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Zeke, Mark and Doug, Thanks for your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant.Some of their appetizersare deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said theyscrub the fryers w. vinegarand it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water. I am interested in the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the byproductsmade. Since they are not fatty acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water? Should I try to neutralize the vinegarbefore dryingthe oil? Should I go to the trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before drying it? It is good oil and there is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then dried, it titrates at 1.9g/L . Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
Hello Jim, if you knew the level of carbonation, it would be much simpler. If you treat this KOH as ordinary KOH, you will have a buffer solution in water or methanol. this buffer will not be as effective as you are used to. I suggest that you try a mini-batch and adjust the input of your new KOH according to that. Good luck ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:07 AM Subject: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pH question
I have already been critizised for
leaving out the sub-understood meaning that the determinations should be carried
out in a water phase, since the H30 and OH ions are not detectable any where
else.
Jan
- Original Message -
From:
A. Secco
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:15
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH question
Dear Jan,
If I understand correctly somethingcan be
wrong with the pH measurementswhich Andrew made and
reported.
The pH can only be measured in an aqueous system
and not in an oil/fatty phase. It has no sense to put the probe in the oil
phase to measure pH. Remember that pH only applies were the water equilibrium
constant works.
Instead of measuring through an pH electrode it
is more convenient and accurate to measure the total acidity of the oil
phasewhich is made throug a titration with NaOH and reported as "acid
value"
Andres Secco
- Original Message -
From:
Jan Warnqvist
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH
question
Hello Andrew,
not to worry, that pH value is
quite in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH
determination, you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic.
Example:
pH 7 means that the amounts of
H3O( acidic)and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10
powered by - 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3.
If you have pH 6, this means that
the H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6
moles/dm3 = 0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 =
0,0001 moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of
10 powered by -2 = 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10
powered by -12 = 0,0001 moles/dm3. This means thatif apH
determination drops from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a
drop from pH 6 to pH 7.
The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel
could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains
in the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ?
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From:
Andrew
Leven
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] pH question
Hello,
I'vemade and washed 4 test
batches from different wvo oil sources andhave comeup
with some quite clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out
at pH 6 + or -. This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a
consistent low reading like this?
Andrew Leven
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Visita www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en
Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pH question
Hello Andrew, not to worry, that pH value is quite in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH determination, you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic. Example: pH 7 means that the amounts of H3O( acidic)and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10 powered by - 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3. If you have pH 6, this means that the H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6 moles/dm3 = 0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 = 0,0001 moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of 10 powered by -2 = 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10 powered by -12 = 0,0001 moles/dm3. This means thatif apH determination drops from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a drop from pH 6 to pH 7. The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains in the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Andrew Leven To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pH question Hello, I'vemade and washed 4 test batches from different wvo oil sources andhave comeup with some quite clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out at pH 6 + or -. This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a consistent low reading like this? Andrew Leven ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Hello Bob, yes, you are right, recovered ethanol will likely contain 500 ppm of water. This ethanol can then possibly only be used in small portions for forward production of ethyl esters. It is however important to find out the purity of the recovered ethanol before any conclusions can be drawn. It is also likely that a big part of the water content of the biodiesel will enter the most polar phase (glycerol phase), which may make it possible to re-use the ethanol. It does not sound too thrilling to use E85 as an ethanol source. There are a number of research projects that have used gasoline-contaning ethanol, and this with production difficulties from time to time. Assuming that biodiesel from E85 is produced, the actual gasoline content would be max 15% of the esterified ethanol ,about 15% of 13-14% which makes max 2,1% in total gasoline content in the biodiesel. This amount will not influence the viscosity, nor the density severly. It is doubtful that it will effect the cetane number or the material compability properties more than marginally. However, if the ethanol is recovered, it is highly likeky to assume that some of the gasoline will enter this phase instead of staying in the biodiesel. The BD may still have an odour of gasoline though. AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method Jan, Wouldn't you expect that 500 ppm water would be picked up in any recovered ethanol, due to even a small amount of soap production? also if the ethanol used is for automobile use, is it an E-85 blend, ie, 15% gasoline? If so I would think that the gasoline would partition into any biodiesel made from this alcohol source. How would the gasoline impact the biodiesel? Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel?
Hello Kenji, heating the oil means that you are adding energy to the coming reaction. The reaction will go faster and become more complete than if you didn´t heat the oil. Trans-esterifucation processes can often take place in temperatures around 20oC and above. The glycerol settling will also go smoother and faster with a little temperature on it, say around 40 - 50ioC. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:14 AM Subject: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel? I've never tried making biodiesel without heating the oil, except in little demo batches (2 litre pop bottle). How necessary is it, and can anyone describe the chemistry or physics of it to me in dumb-dumb terms? Or maybe its in the archives, and someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks, Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test
from this test?And finally should I be concerned by a
couple of percent contamination in my fuel? I did
search the mail archive twice using 'methanol test' and also 'Jan
Warnqvist' as keywords, but the returns were not so informative.
List members I need your wisdom! Jan perhaps you are most
qualified to answer but I would really like to get a sense of the
percentage of the list members who are running this test. So chime
in! Joe
**___
Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch
the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel
mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch
the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Todd, yes, to my knowledge it is favourable producing methyl esters by turning the FFA:s into soaps as a first step. There will be amounts of water created with this method as well, but it seems to be of less importance. There is no need for scaring people off , but there is a need for explaining the mechanisms necessary for success. There will also always be a need for us that are trained to disperse our knowledge with the responsibility required. I was referring to acid esterification of FFA:s / oil without passing through the soap step. These reactions are often incomplete, and moreover, quite slow. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Jan, Since when are esterifications often incomplete? And since when is a good conversion achieved necessarily through base catalysis? It's relatively simple to take 100% FFAs and achieve a 100% yield of esters. Industry does it daily from soap stock. Let people satisfy their own curiosities rather than scaring them off paths that many have already taken..., and succeeded at one might add. Todd Swearingen Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap feedstock, not the other way around. Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization. Good luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Thanks Jan, If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO (still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter like the water problem you noted below? Would the FFA's be worth the trouble? Thanks Jim Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Jim, the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap feedstock, not the other way around. Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization. Good luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Thanks Jan, If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO (still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter like the water problem you noted below? Would the FFA's be worth the trouble? Thanks Jim Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] In French ?
Hello Oliver. I have some interesting ideas concerning biofuel in Switzerland. Contact me on [EMAIL PROTECTED] ASAP for further discussions. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ? Bonjour, in researching the possibility of making BD with Isopropyl Alcohol, I have noticed than in Europe many countries refer to biodiesel as FAME; this may be a useful term to search for when looking for French language information. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: I would highly recommend also using: http://world.altavista.com/ I would highly recommend also using an online translator such as AltaVista's Babelfish (http://world.altavista.com/). I have used it frequently for Russian to English, and it seems to have no problem with English to French when you use the Translate a web page option. --Randall Charlotte, NC Hello Randall The machine translators are useful, we've discussed using them here before, but that was for when people wanted to post messages in Spanish or French or whatever, not for technical instructions on a website. How would American biodieselers for instance like it if they had to get their information from Journey to Forever via Babelfish? Here's how the Spanish version of Mike Pelly's titration instructions come out in English via world.altavista.com: Disolución of a gram of lejía in a distilled liter of water prepares one. Asegúrate of which it is dissolved totally. This sample serves like value of reference in valoración. It is important that this disolución is not contaminated because serˆ used in many valuations. Mixture in a container pequeño 10 mililiter of isopropílico alcohol with 1 mililiter of the oil (asegurate of which it is exactly 1 mililiter). It takes to the oil sample después of it to have warmed up and to have shaken (5 Figure # 1). Añade two drops of fenolftaleína, that is an indicator ˆ cido-bases colorless in the presence of ˆ cidos and red in the presence of bases. English version: Make up a solution of one gram of lye to one liter of distilled water. Make sure it dissolves completely. This sample is then used as a reference tester for the titration process. It's important not to let the sample get contaminated, it can be used for many titrations. Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with a 1 milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 milliliter. Take the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel (Figure 5 #1) after it's been warmed up and stirred. Add to this solution 2 drops of phenolphthalein, an acid-base indicator that's colorless in acid and red in base. Not so good eh? Lots of people in lots of countries speak French. If there aren't any good biofuels how-to sites in French there should be. Invitation stands: If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host it, like the Spanish-language site. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ? Hi, Biodiesel is often called diester in French. Here's a French-language Wikipedia entry with some links to biodiesel in Switzerland at the bottom: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diester I also suggest doing an advanced search on Google for French-language pages containing the words biodiesel or diester. Thanks, Sam On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:01:00 +0100, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Olivier I have some friends in the French side of Switzerland, Geneva, who are interested to try to make Biodiesel. They already have a car (a LandRover I beleive) running on SVO. But they do not speak (nor read) english. Do you know by any chance a good web site where they can find information on how to produce in French ? I don't. Maybe there isn't one. If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host it, like the Spanish-language site. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks, Olivier ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol
Hello Jim, since the methanol solubility test worked out well, you probably have created some soap from the methyl esters. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I have done with the results and further below are my questions, The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer removed. 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test) as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel. Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change. 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method, (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel) - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour. Results: after 24 hours there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all. 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room temp till mixed into one phase. Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time. Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is close to seven. O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above? I am not sure except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm so I did. My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on top of the other clear amber layer may be? Could this be the FFA content per L? Thanks in advance, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD and Oil Burner
Hello Tom, the leakage you have spotted is no doubt a result of material incompability, something that you will have to live with unless you find sealings of a compatible material. The biodiesel from WVO will in case of crystallisation, plug the fuel filter of your burner, not causing leakages. Is the jelly thing clear or emulsified ? Best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD and Oil Burner Hello All, I've been using a 30% BD/70% heating oil mix in my heating oil tank since August. My oil burner heats my water as well as my house.All went well (each time I checked the nozzle on the burner it was clean as new) until late in Dec. I was away. My wife noticed an odor of diesel fuel in the basement. She found a small puddle of oil under the furnace. Following is the report from the person who serviced the burner: Oil leak under the burner Nozzle jelled up outside Found some sort of jelly built up on end of nozzle Oil was dripping down blast tube I suspect that the difference in the performance of the mix in Dec vs Aug through Nov, is the cold. Although my oil tank is inside, it is in my basement where temps drop below 50F on cold days. The fuel line to the burner is 12 ft long and runs along an exterior wall. During the colder months I use the bestWVO, with the lowest cloud point to made BD for my car and the rest to make BD for my heating fuel. (My caris outdoors, starts on the coldest days and runs well on a 70% BD/30% petro diesel mix. It has a small pre-coolant heater that I plug in for an hour before starting.) Questions: 1. Am I right in assuming that the "jelly" on the nozzle is the thicking of the BD due to the cold? 2. Can the problem be addressed by heating the fuel line to the burner? 3. Any other thoughts? Thanks, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] grease trap waste
Hello Manuel, the FFA value does not alter the net heat value, but high FFA oils are usually quite corrosive. And - oil from grease traps may also contain mineral oils and other fatty substances. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: manuel cilia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: [Biofuel] grease trap waste Has anyone has any experience with grease trap waste. I am looking into an idea of collecting grease trap waste and seperating the water from the grease, then heating the grease to a level where it can be filtered and used in gas turbines while the water is cleaned up and use for irrigation I know grease trap waste is very high in FFA but does this atler it total energy value or just its gelling point. - Original Message - From: Joey Hundert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae byMichaelBriggs Todd, Please forgive the fact that I'm about to post a previous thread into this one, however, the archives don't seem to be working tonight. The following is Keith's last post on this issue. Subj: RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Todd, if you keep a good personal archive, please also note the thread the bad news about biodiesel http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg58130.html as it also has some kernels. -Joey Hello Craig Hello Keith, I've been doing a bit of research on microalgae production for energy and found there is some research going on around the world in various places. The NREL's 'Aquatic Species Program' research closed in the mid 1990's due, among other things, to pressure for DOE funding and the decision to focus their research budgets on ethanol production. Were those the only reasons? I thought there were some negative reasons about algae too, could always be wrong though. Also in the 1990's the Japanese took the idea on in a big way, spending more than $250 million on research into hi-tec bioreactors with optical fiber devices etc but found they were too expensive to be economical. I believe research is continuing there but on a smaller scale; I haven't heard of any such research here, and I'm a bit sceptical. As with biodiesel itself - it's quite easy to get the impression that there's lots of fancy stuff going on here, especially if you listen to several quite noisy people, and there are indeed some fancy Japanese patents, but in fact biodiesel hardly exists here, some (or most) of the few projects that do exist are very bad, to the extent that emissions tests for exemption from the restrictions of the anti-diesel campaign here (Tokyo and some other places) will no longer allow biodiesel because they've found it's so badly made it wrecks the machinery. Tests of our biodiesel have shown it would pass and wouldn't mess up any machinery, but they made a blanket rule: NO biodiesel, great, thanks guys. More and more people are making their own now, since we got involved (not boasting, that's what's happened), high-quality fuel, but it doesn't count, too bad. Same with ethanol, lots of good research, lots of schemes, but nothing happens. Yet. China and Israel are also leaders in applied phycology and have done work on biofuels from algae. Michael Briggs, of UNH, and his team are currently focusing on enclosed systems where the algae will process wastewater too. Have they made any biodiesel from it yet? John Benemann, who was involved in the NREL research, is now an independent consultant and heading up an international network who are researching into it: their website gives a good overview Thanks, I'll take a look. http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/Biofixation.htm . http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/documents/01roadmp.pdf Other links... NREL research http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/34796.pdf http://govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2004/915/9150010.pdf Further studies http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/pdf/algae_salton_sea.pdf http://europa.eu.int/comm/research/energy/pdf/36_qingyu_wu_en.pdf Discussion forum exchanges http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=719605551m =932606061r=932606061#932606061 Um... (burp), no thanks. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3153. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3414whichpage=1 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oil_from_algae/ Algal biodiesel plant planned for California?? (I don't know anything more about it) http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring02/biodiesel.htm US Company making algal biodiesel from power station gases http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm I find the last link particularly interesting. My only problem with it - and with John
Re: [Biofuel] Vehicles suitable for biodiesel operation
Hello Win. assumable nothing else than keeping an extra fuel filter with you in the car. And also assuming that the biodiesel is of good quality. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Vin Lava To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vehicles suitable for biodiesel operation Hi, I'm setting up to homebrew biodiesel in a month or so. I'm being offered a 1985 Mercedes Benz 190D in reasonably decent condition.What do I need to do touse biodiesel in it? What should I look out for?We also have an early 90'sNissan Largo with the small (2.0L?) diesel and a mid-90'sIsuzu Bighorn with the 3.1L intercooler turbodiesel. What do I need to do to run them on biodiesel? Any info would be much appreciated. :-) Thanks and regards. Vin Lava Manila, Philippines ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Adding SVO to petro diesel (lubricity issue)
Hello Dana, you will have full lubricity properties if adding 5% of SVO or BD to the diesel oil. But, BD is preferrable due to the coking properties of the SVO. I would suggest a BD with a high content of olelic acid e.g. from canola ,soybean or sunflower oil. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Dana Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Adding SVO to petro diesel (lubricity issue) I wonder if someone on this forum could help me? I have no biodiesel options around my home, and I'm concerned that running the lower sulphur petroleum diesel fuel will damage my injection pump. I'd like to add some SVO into the petro diesel to add lubricity to the fuel, and I'm wondering if someone on here could tell me the optimal percentages? I'd like to add enough to give substantial protection to the pump and injectors. Also, is any particular kind of SVO better for this purpose than another type? thanks ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (off topic) looking for Jan Warnqvist
Sorry, Chip, the response failed to reach your e-mail adress twice, and I stored it in my other computer. I will re-send it again during the weekend Jan - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (off topic) looking for Jan Warnqvist -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 After my appeal for ethanol as fuel information a couple of weeks back, I was contacted by Jan Warnqvist who asked me to reply for more information. I did reply, and never heard from you again. Perhaps my off-list reply didn't make it for some reason. But here is the body of my response to you; - -- Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Chip. Hy Jan; I read your input on the JTF mailing list. I have experience in ethanol as a fuel for both 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines. Converting a 4-stroke engine to ethanol is not a big thing, however making a 2-stroke engine to run safe and properly on ethanol is a different matter not in the least due to its way of lubrication. yes, it is interesting. Were I trying to get a generic old 2 stoke to work, it would be one thing, as the older 2stoke engines used fuel/oil as a coolant as well as a lubricant/fuel. However, these newer husqvarna saw engines do a very wonderful job of completing the combustion in the combustion chamber, with very little un-spent fuel exhausting. Husqvarna has done an admirable job engineering these engines. However, here in the US, the alkyate fuels like Aspen are not available, or if they are, it's a real mystery as to where. Futher, even Aspen is non-renewable. Seems we in the US not only use the most petrol, we also use the lower quality petrols. Nothing to be proud of. The small things, like adapting the fuel system, guestimating the carb modifications and such are things I could probably do. However, trying to determine a good fuel/lubricant ratio for ethanol and perhaps using a bio-oil like biodiesel as a lubrication additive is quite simply beyond my quite limited skills. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks very much for the reply. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDXla10STXFHxUucwRAuu3AJsHOJRQ9isR+O3dgJ2d3d9fsvzsjgCfY/wd SMHmT9QGXU43efKQq64yXEo= =lOsk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
