RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Keith, Yikes! I didn't mean to say conspiracy theory groups and Bush-bashers are one in the same. I'm not saying Bush or any other politician hasn't lied. I don't know. Whether or not a person believes what they say does not make them a conspiracy theorist. Corporations do not love anybody. Their purpose is to make money. A person has got to understand that any corporation does not have their customers' best interests in mind and those customers need to keep that in mind when buying their products. The danger with propaganda such as this card game is that it feeds on a person's innate desire to believe what they want to believe regardless of the level of truth. Looking at those cards, I can't separate truth from fiction. Can you honestly say those cards tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Look at what is not there: I found this quote at http://www.monsantosucks.com/Newsnviews/revolvedoor.htm Jack Watson. . .former chief of staff to the President of the United States, Jimmy Carter, . . .now a staff lawyer with Monsanto Corporation in Washington, D.C. He doesn't have a card. I wonder what he has to day about Monsanto. I noticed as well that many of the corporations, such as Caterpillar, that have cards are well represented by labor unions. Is the UAW in cahoots with building these killer bulldozers? See http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/cards/diamonds/five.html It becomes problematic when a person buys into these cards as solid evidence and thus propagates even more lies. I really think Hakan asked a rhetorical question. Marilyn's attempt to answer with this card game served more to inflame the issue than answer a question. I am working on reviewing your suggested readings with an eye toward trying to separate fact from fiction and propaganda from sound evidence. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:50 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Chris, Given the context the statement leaned toward either legitimate government involvement from any number of agencies, or downright censorship. That card game is quite derogatory toward many gov't officials and business leaders. It spins a grain of truth to whip up frenzy within conspiracy theory groups and other anti-government/big business, Bush-bashing circles. ROFL!!! Conspiracy theory groups and **other** anti-government/big business, Bush-bashing circles??? Now, once we've fought our way through this confetti of labellings, does that mean that if you don't swallow the Bushies' lies over the Iraq invasion and just about everything else you're just a conspiracy theorist? And that if you don't believe Monsanto Loves You And So Does Haliburton you're just a conspiracy theorist? No card game can reflect reality. Images can though, especially well-annotated ones. There can be a lot more than a grain of truth in the proverbial thousand words, especially in a whole suite of them. A person's objectivity can be compromised by this sort of stuff. I don't think we can put a lot of trust in statements about what can compromise a person's objectivity from someone who apparently thinks Bush-bashing is a conspiracy theory. The game may be banned on Ebay because nobody will claim ownership. Clutching at straws, aren't you? What indication do you have that it has anything to do with ownership, let alone that nobody will claim it? eBay would not be the first Internet resource in the US to indulge in this sort of squeaky-clean self-censorship, and IIRC it may not be the first time for eBay either. Marilyn brought it to our attention. Perhaps she would care to defend her statement. No need at all for her to do that, but I suspect you're going to have a hard time defending yours. Why no need for Marilyn to defend her statement? Because, far from the dread cards being used to whip up a frenzy within conspiracy theory groups etc etc, Marilyn used them as a direct and economical answer to a question from Hakan: Wonder from which industries they [US leaders] are coming? That's what the cards tell you. Whether it's derogatory or not is irrelevant. Unless you can demonstrate that what they say is inaccurate, and intentionally so, your current (conspiracy?) theory falls at least as flat as the original copyright one did. More than one list member has told you to go and do some homework but it's clear that you haven't. Conspiracy Bush-bashing aside, have you read these yet? Go to http://globalissues.org/ (for instance) and do some studying. You can start with these: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39994.html Re: [Biofuel] US Foreign aid http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51848.html [Biofuel] Inequality in wealth Or these? http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Tom, Why do you quote 9th and 10th Commandment to me? I havent forced my religious views on anyone. There are civil and international laws that apply to stealing if that is to what you are referring. I believe that would equate to the 7th commandment. Now if you are implying that a country is using legal means to scheme or entice another country to involuntarily give up their property, that would be 9th and 10th Commandment issues. Im sure there are others on this list that are better informed on these matters than I so someone correct me if need be. Lets get back to your original comment. I dont have cable or satellite so I dont watch TV. I really am sorry but I still dont understand your point. I will feel really silly if your comment was sarcastic, which Im getting the feeling it was, and I didnt get it. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:36 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Hi Tim, You mean they don´t have Fox News and CNN in Missouri. Perhaps this will help. When someone goes into another country to take what belongs to that country they are breaking this one. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. You do understand that on don´t you Tim. I think last part applies to oil. What do you think? Tom Irwin From: Tim Schlueter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:25:25 -0300 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tom, Not sure I understand. Please elaborate. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:25 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Hi Tim and all, You mean it's like Fox News and CNN but in reverse? Tom Irwin From: Tim Schlueter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:42:33 -0300 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Chris, Given the context the statement leaned toward either legitimate government involvement from any number of agencies, or downright censorship. That card game is quite derogatory toward many gov't officials and business leaders. It spins a grain of truth to whip up frenzy within conspiracy theory groups and other anti-government/big business, Bush-bashing circles. No card game can reflect reality. A person's objectivity can be compromised by this sort of stuff. The game may be banned on Ebay because nobody will claim ownership. Marilyn brought it to our attention. Perhaps she would care to defend her statement. Tim snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Kim, Thanks for your frankness. Tolerance is the politically correct buzzword these days, in the public arena anyway. Privately folks are free to be as intolerant as money can buy. Discrimination is running rampant not that anyone would admit to it but you can judge a tree by its fruit. I feared the word meek wouldn't convey my intent properly. I did not mean doormat! Instead I meant non-resented wisdom, patience and gentleness especially while enduring hardship. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth Kim Travis Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:05 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Greetings, No, I do not yearn for Canada. Canadians have their faults too, just different ones. Me meek, not in this lifetime. It is true that the red in my hair is more a memory than reality these days, I am used to standing up for what I believe is right. Actually the racism is what I find hardest to take in the US and no, it is not just in the south. The closed neighborhoods that do not want change or new people are not particularly healthy either. What really upset me when I first moved here were the neighborhoods based on a certain religion! How to create narrow minded children. However, I do understand that such neighborhoods are now springing up in Canada, as well. The main difference I find is the lack of tolerance for anyone different or anything different. I guess Canadians have so many immigrant per capita, that interest in the different cultures has managed to keep things a little more tolerant. And yes, I am well aware of the prejedice that those from Pakistan ran into when they arrived in Canada. I am not saying anyone is perfect. Bright Blessings, Kim At 03:22 PM 8/16/2005, you wrote: Kim, Gracious me! As they say the meek shall inherit the earth! I believe that you fit that bill. How soothing and reflective are your words. You must yearn for Canada. I am curious as to what you are referring to wrt American attitudes? It doesn't sound very complimentary. Not that I'm offended though I am interested in your perspective. Tim -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Chris, Given the context the statement leaned toward either legitimate government involvement from any number of agencies, or downright censorship. That card game is quite derogatory toward many gov't officials and business leaders. It spins a grain of truth to whip up frenzy within conspiracy theory groups and other anti-government/big business, Bush-bashing circles. No card game can reflect reality. A person's objectivity can be compromised by this sort of stuff. The game may be banned on Ebay because nobody will claim ownership. Marilyn brought it to our attention. Perhaps she would care to defend her statement. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:37 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country i don't see how that statement would lead one to believe it was government censorship. it has a certain conspiratorial ring to it, no doubt. not entirely unfounded, since there's a ton of stuff sold electronically/via download on ebay. sounds as if not even the copyright holder(s) of the card game are being allowed to sell it. -chris In a message dated 8/16/05 10:23:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In other words, the reason for the ban may have to do with copyright legalities as opposed to some sort of governmentally imposed restriction, which the statement below leads one to believe. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Tom, Not sure I understand. Please elaborate. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:25 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Hi Tim and all, You mean it's like Fox News and CNN but in reverse? Tom Irwin From: Tim Schlueter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:42:33 -0300 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Chris, Given the context the statement leaned toward either legitimate government involvement from any number of agencies, or downright censorship. That card game is quite derogatory toward many gov't officials and business leaders. It spins a grain of truth to whip up frenzy within conspiracy theory groups and other anti-government/big business, Bush-bashing circles. No card game can reflect reality. A person's objectivity can be compromised by this sort of stuff. The game may be banned on Ebay because nobody will claim ownership. Marilyn brought it to our attention. Perhaps she would care to defend her statement. Tim snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
played a similar role as China in the field of patents. It never helped that the European countries complained, but now when US have a film and music industry to protect, the table is turned. What is the difference between a unique technical solution and a sequence of notes? If you have to register a patent in US, to protect a technical solution, similar registration should also be required for US intellectual properties in other countries. US get much more protection for their unregistered intellectual properties, that they give for the unregistered thought process for technical solutions. It is very complicated and US is cherry picking on subjects that give them benefits and disregard what they want. Hakan Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hakan Falk Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:27 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, There are many of the top 20 industrialized who, per capita, give more foreign aid than US. The fact is that the most of them do. This both in percentage of GDP and in absolute numbers. Most of them have a behavior of quite high standard and without corruptive and reciprocal rules. They are not avoiding foreign entanglement, on the contrary. I suggest that US look closer to those and learn. Drug-trafficking is a problem that starts with the demand and the definitions. The demand is a social problem, not a criminal. With a targeted and reality based legislation, a lot will disappear. I must be something very wrong, with a country that have 21 years as legal sexual age, which make most Americans criminals already when they start their adult life. Laws should be reasonable, adopted to realities and regarded as fair by the majority, then it will be anchored and followed by most of the population. The laws of any country are the concerns of that country and is only when laws are matching between countries, that cooperation can be established. To help with an other country's immigration, laws about leaving a country must be established and emigration can be controlled. Any country who establish laws about the rights to leave the country, will be branded as suppressive by US and might be invaded by US (subject to sufficient oil reserves). LOL Counterfeiting is an area with intensive international cooperation and your complain is baseless. It does not matter where he $´s are produced, it is criminal. US $ and Euro are attractive money, but US currency is far easier to counterfeit. Hakan At 05:34 15/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan, Yes, that is quite immoral to export our dirty work much less support oppresive regimes for any reason. My question is how can we avoid foreign entanglements, regardless of methods, without being completely discompassionate? At the same time if we refrain from taking advantage of foreign sub-standards and lenient laws, they should help us enforce our laws such as immigration, drug-trafficing and counterfeiting. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Hakan Falk Sent: Sun 8/14/2005 5:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, This is not really the question form and maybe many others. It is not the question of that US is engaged, it is the way US does it and traditionally did it. It is immoral to support activities by their corporations, that are not up to their standards and laws for US at home. It is not morally justifiable to support oppressive regimes, in order to support US financial interests. We can only mention The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. as a few of a long list that were helped to power and then maintained by US. Iraq is the result of a misunderstanding, Saddam Hussein asked for the US permission to invade Kuweit and thought that he got it. Hakan At 02:45 14/08/2005, you wrote: There seems to be general agreement on this list that the U.S. should avoid foreign entanglements, at least when it comes to some of the uglier tenets of foreign policy. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about so called benevolent tenets as well? Even feeding and clothing the oppressed will upset the oppressors. Perhaps what a foreign entanglement refers to is a personal decision driven by that person's views toward any one particular governmental involvement? Tim Schlueter St. Louis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 11:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Mike, Where do I start? First, I have a real problem with any government (U.S., state, local) taking my hard earned money (in the form of taxes
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Kim, No question about the lying taking place in corporations. However, a person tends to take that statement as though it only takes place at the employer level. Employees lie to the same degree. How many people do we all know who milk worker comp claims? Or take jobs that pay under the table so as to protect their unemployment benefits? What about stealing company property either in material or unproductive time? Then you have people who complain about unsafe working conditions only to hop on a crotch rocket, drink and drive, smoke, load their kids in the bed of their pickup, etc. I'm not protecting the corporation at all. At the same time, if more people had the constitution take that job and shove it and self-employ, the corporation would have to sit up and listen. The problem is the pay and benefits are too good. Tim Schlueter(20 year accountant for the corporation) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth Kim Travis Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Greetings Hakan, Lying in corporations is standard practice in North America. The normal lie that is real common is: 'Anyone can shut down a job for safety reasons.' I have heard this in many corporations in Canada and the US, but I have also seen what happens when someone tries to shut down a job for safety reasons. Either they are ignored and the job continues in an unsafe manor or the person very quickly finds themselves in the unemployment line. Corporate image and the image of being a good corporate citizen is what the companies care about, the reality does not have to live up to it, if they have spent enough money publicizing their corporate image. Start work at 16 and by the time you are 20, you have this figured out. The challenge is to figure out which part of the companies spin, they actually care about. Then you know which sacred cow not to damage. Me, I couldn't stand it, so I have been self employed most of my life. Not all corporations are like this, and the smaller the company, the less likely this is. But one does not go into politics as a rule from small business. The oil industry is especially ripe with type of behavior. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:36 AM 8/16/2005, you wrote: If they come from Corporations, hmmm, I do not like to be sued for telling my honest opinion or my experiences from US corporate leaders. It does however explain the deep rooted habit of lying to the people. Wonder from which industries they are coming? Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Why are these cards banned on Ebay? Perhaps it has to do with this statement from Ebay: Only copyright owners are permitted to sell items or products which are intended to be delivered to the buyer by electronic download through the Internet. Sellers who own the copyrights to this downloadable media being sold must state this fact in their listings and must be able to prove this ownership to eBay. In other words, the reason for the ban may have to do with copyright legalities as opposed to some sort of governmentally imposed restriction, which the statement below leads one to believe. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:08 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Hakan wrote: Wonder from which industries they are coming? Hakan, at the following website you can see their backgrounds by looking at each card in a card game that shows backgrounds of people working with the administration: http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/ Each suit in the deck represents a category: Oil, gas, and energy companies US government officials Military and defense contractors Heads of industry, finance, media, policy, and hype Go here to select each category to find information on each person http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/cards/index.html The sale of the card game has been banned on ebay To see a little about Cheney's background with Halliburton see http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/22/60minutes/printabl e595214.shtml Doing Business With The Enemy Jan. 25, 2004 Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and other neoconservatives were part of the Project for the New American Century plan to invade Iraq in 1997. They tried to get Clinton interested, but failed. They didn't fail with Bush. See their names on the statement of principles at: http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Tom, I had no idea that Bush jr had been shot at and seen friends die for America. Nobody told me that Rumsfelt had an extinguish military career, but it is possible. Powell, that I like a lot, I know was a military, but it looked like he had trouble with his colleagues, maybe he is the one who provided for the shooting at Bush? This girl who got Powell's job, looks like a military, but I thought that she was a university professor. You have to excuse us foreigners who know so little about US leaders. Then the view about fuel economy is understandable, anything with little less mpg than a Hummer, must be a wonder of efficiency. Anything with better insulation than a tent, must look as the technology that would save us from Global Warming. Considering the living conditioning in military tents, must also make it difficult to belive in the concept of Global Warming. If they come from Corporations, hmmm, I do not like to be sued for telling my honest opinion or my experiences from US corporate leaders. It does however explain the deep rooted habit of lying to the people. Wonder from which industries they are coming? Hakan At 11:20 16/08/2005, you wrote: Hi Hakan, We get those wonderful leaders from corporations and the military. The ones in the military are actually the pacifists since they´re actually been shot at and seen friends die for America Inc. Tom -- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:04:07 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Bob, Thanks for your concerns about me. Yes you are right, there are many who has the capacity to compensate lack of direct experience, with education and enough imagination. There are many good places in the world, as I said, and we only have to work hard on making more of them. To belive that this in any way can be done with the help of weapons, is utterly stupid. It is nothing that will be more destructive and more hated, than liberators that has killed members of your family and/or your friends. As I now live in Spain and married with a Catalan women, I often see that the effects of the 1936 to 1939 civil war still are lingering. I heard about it before, but did not think that it would be so real for so many, who's parents were not even born at that time. To belive that US will get out of Iraq, without being deeply hated the next 50-100 years, is not only ignorant, but also utterly stupid. After all they have personally killed around 300,000 Iraqis and was behind the Iraq - Iran war, with around an other million dead. History will not be kind to US, the Americans and President Bush. Where do the Americans get those unreal and sick leaders from, including guys like Rumsfelt? It is amazing!! Hakan At 03:27 16/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan, Well said, and most appropriate. But may I
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Hakan, It really amounts to aid with no strings attached. But even then there must be measures put in place to ensure accountability such as progress reports, inspections, etc. In an indirect way, when the US imports goods and services that translates into foreign aid. The US has a huge trade imbalance. The US also has considerable foreign direct investment in PPE that has got to help the local economy. This may sound snippy but I suppose much of this activity can be interpreted as exploitation. Tim Schlueter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hakan Falk Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:40 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, Nothing really, neither size or methods, but it is a matter of using foreign aid as a part of foreign policies and control. US is mixing their foreign policy goals and corporate profits, with the way to distribute foreign aid. 1. US is selective and set the rules for their foreign aid, as an instrument to enhance their foreign policy goals. The countries I mentioned refrain from mixing foreign policy goals and only look at the needs. 2. US is demanding that the money is spent with US companies and it is only if there are no US suppliers available, that the money can be spent somewhere else. This means that they short circuit any true bidding process, with lowest price and suitability as parameters. The countries that I mentioned, allow for an efficient purchasing process, with price/performance as the only measurement. This often means more for the money. Sometimes and for unique needs, all the countries will directly deliver produce as aid. The over riding factor should always be what is best for the recipient and not the convenience of the donor or donor related corporations. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Keith, You're saying Ebay picks and chooses which of its own rules to follow and when? Perhaps so but if that is the case, at least we know it is Ebay doing the suppressing unless you think they are getting squeezed by someone. Thanks for the advice to delete irrelevant material. Tim Schlueter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:49 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Why are these cards banned on Ebay? Perhaps it has to do with this statement from Ebay: Only copyright owners are permitted to sell items or products which are intended to be delivered to the buyer by electronic download through the Internet. Sellers who own the copyrights to this downloadable media being sold must state this fact in their listings and must be able to prove this ownership to eBay. In other words, the reason for the ban may have to do with copyright legalities as opposed to some sort of governmentally imposed restriction, which the statement below leads one to believe. Tim :-) Believe the small print if you like. Quite a regular item offered on eBay is this: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/z/woh1.j pg Taken directly from our site, the description also taken directly from our site, and offered as original plans for sale at $20 or something similar. It was JtF who resurrected these plans, but, as acknowledged, the copyright belongs to Mother Earth News, but there's zero acknowledgement of either JtF or MEN. Try telling eBay about it - I got exactly nowhere, and neither did several other people. Please trim irrelevant previous material from your posts Tim, you're wasting tons of bandwidth. Thankyou. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:08 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Hakan wrote: Wonder from which industries they are coming? Hakan, at the following website you can see their backgrounds by looking at each card in a card game that shows backgrounds of people working with the administration: http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/ Each suit in the deck represents a category: Oil, gas, and energy companies US government officials Military and defense contractors Heads of industry, finance, media, policy, and hype Go here to select each category to find information on each person http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/cards/index.html The sale of the card game has been banned on ebay To see a little about Cheney's background with Halliburton see http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/22/60minutes/printabl e595214.shtml Doing Business With The Enemy Jan. 25, 2004 Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and other neoconservatives were part of the Project for the New American Century plan to invade Iraq in 1997. They tried to get Clinton interested, but failed. They didn't fail with Bush. See their names on the statement of principles at: http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Kim, Bless you! So many people are proud of their money regardless of how they earned it. However, would there be any validity to the statement that your lifestyle would not be possible if not for the capitalistic, corporate driven, free society in which we live? If so, that would be a horrible piece of irony. I'm not being antagonistic. I guess I'm just lost in America with a couple hundred million others. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth Kim Travis Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:39 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Greetings Tim, You are more than correct about many things. Few and far between are the honest humans, but there are a few. Fortunately for me, you can't pay me enough for me to work at anything that I can't be proud of. I have never been that fond of money. I like my benefits better than any a corporation could give me. Plenty of fresh air, sunshine, super healthy food, loving animals, no chemicals in my environment. No smokers and I work at my own rate and time. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Kim, Gracious me! As they say the meek shall inherit the earth! I believe that you fit that bill. How soothing and reflective are your words. You must yearn for Canada. I am curious as to what you are referring to wrt American attitudes? It doesn't sound very complimentary. Not that I'm offended though I am interested in your perspective. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth Kim Travis Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:01 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Greetings, I moved to the US in my midthirties, so I did not grow up with American attitudes. While Canadians do share many things with the US, we did not share all of them. I was never told that it was un-Canadian to do for myself or to make things at home. I am criticized in this manner about once a week, here in Texas. Once upon a time, I thought I knew what was right in politics. Now the only thing I do know, is that if you want to have an opinion, you had better do some serious homework. Even then, somewhere down the road, something that was done by the leadership in the shadows will come to light and make you wish you had never supported them. I have no answers to such questions. I do try to live lightly on Mother Earth, to be accepting of others as long as they cause no harm to me and mine, and to try to make the world a better place for all of us. This is enough of a challenge, for me. Bright Blessings, Kim ** This electronic mail transmission contains confidential and/or privileged information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by another person is strictly prohibited. ** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Re: The New Blue States/Country
Keith, I apologize for what appears to be trolling. I'm looking to exchange perceptions, judgments and opinions more than anything. A person can look at data all day long and still not be able to make sense of it all. Thanks for your patience. Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Hakan, Yes, that is quite immoral to export our dirty work much less support oppresive regimes for any reason. My question is how can we avoid foreign entanglements, regardless of methods, without being completely discompassionate? At the same time if we refrain from taking advantage of foreign sub-standards and lenient laws, they should help us enforce our laws such as immigration, drug-trafficing and counterfeiting. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Hakan Falk Sent: Sun 8/14/2005 5:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, This is not really the question form and maybe many others. It is not the question of that US is engaged, it is the way US does it and traditionally did it. It is immoral to support activities by their corporations, that are not up to their standards and laws for US at home. It is not morally justifiable to support oppressive regimes, in order to support US financial interests. We can only mention The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. as a few of a long list that were helped to power and then maintained by US. Iraq is the result of a misunderstanding, Saddam Hussein asked for the US permission to invade Kuweit and thought that he got it. Hakan At 02:45 14/08/2005, you wrote: There seems to be general agreement on this list that the U.S. should avoid foreign entanglements, at least when it comes to some of the uglier tenets of foreign policy. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about so called benevolent tenets as well? Even feeding and clothing the oppressed will upset the oppressors. Perhaps what a foreign entanglement refers to is a personal decision driven by that person's views toward any one particular governmental involvement? Tim Schlueter St. Louis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 11:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Mike, Where do I start? First, I have a real problem with any government (U.S., state, local) taking my hard earned money (in the form of taxes) and redistributing it to others. Now, there are legitimate things that each of these levels of government can spend taxpayer dollars on, namely, those outlined in their constitution or charter. In the case of the U.S. Government, these include national defense (not necessarily offense, though), minting currency, postal services, etc. When the U.S. Government (or perhaps the state governments) start spending my money outside the bounds of the Constitution, it is no longer legit. I would like to see Congress try and pass an Amendment to allow giving loans to foreign nations and never expecting repayment of those loans. How much support do you think they would get from the populace? Second, some people may consider giving funds or supplies to help poorer nations or refugee groups as charity, which it is. But charity is you or I freely donating my money to others for the purpose of helping those in need. I have given money to help victims of 9-11, I have helped feed the homeless in soup kitchens, I have given my old clothing and furniture to Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. Governments, such as our federal government, do not own the money they give to others - the money belongs to the taxpayers (and bond holders) who provide the money. How can the U.S. Government consider giving money to poor African countries as charity, when it isn't their money to give? As I mentioned previously, if the U.S. Government would stop taking my hard earned money and donating away, perhaps I would have more money that I could freely give to organizations like the Red Cross (this is only one example, there are others) as charity. Third, the idea of giving for the sake of giving is lost on most politicians. Inside the Beltway, a politician's power is measured by his or her ability to fundraise - accepting money from some generous sole to support some Cause of the day. Have you ever met a political donor that didn't expect something in return? The President and Congress are just as guilty of wanting something in return for helping other nations. How much money have they pumped into the poorer nations of the Iraq War Coalition? Socialism and true communism may have its value to some and will thrive in some places of the world, but I prefer not to live under it. Or at least, if I have to, please call it as such - The Socialist Unoin of America. The same goes for the United Nations. Thanks for the opportunity to explain myself. Earl. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Earl, Earl wrote: It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to donate any
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Hakan, What you are saying then is foreign aid does not necessarily fit the definition of foreign entanglement? Further, even if it did, that type of entanglement is OK? You are right about the demand side of illicit drugs. I was referring to the supply side. Another Country just simply cannot supply drugs regardless of demand or legalities. That spells trouble. Are you saying that if a foreign country doesn't agree with our laws, they are not obligated to cooperate with us, unless there is something in it for them? I was referring to a broader definition of counterfeiting than just currency such as that pertaining to intellectual property. For instance, I read and hear much about Chinese illegal copying of software, music, movies, clothing, etc. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hakan Falk Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:27 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, There are many of the top 20 industrialized who, per capita, give more foreign aid than US. The fact is that the most of them do. This both in percentage of GDP and in absolute numbers. Most of them have a behavior of quite high standard and without corruptive and reciprocal rules. They are not avoiding foreign entanglement, on the contrary. I suggest that US look closer to those and learn. Drug-trafficking is a problem that starts with the demand and the definitions. The demand is a social problem, not a criminal. With a targeted and reality based legislation, a lot will disappear. I must be something very wrong, with a country that have 21 years as legal sexual age, which make most Americans criminals already when they start their adult life. Laws should be reasonable, adopted to realities and regarded as fair by the majority, then it will be anchored and followed by most of the population. The laws of any country are the concerns of that country and is only when laws are matching between countries, that cooperation can be established. To help with an other country's immigration, laws about leaving a country must be established and emigration can be controlled. Any country who establish laws about the rights to leave the country, will be branded as suppressive by US and might be invaded by US (subject to sufficient oil reserves). LOL Counterfeiting is an area with intensive international cooperation and your complain is baseless. It does not matter where he $´s are produced, it is criminal. US $ and Euro are attractive money, but US currency is far easier to counterfeit. Hakan At 05:34 15/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan, Yes, that is quite immoral to export our dirty work much less support oppresive regimes for any reason. My question is how can we avoid foreign entanglements, regardless of methods, without being completely discompassionate? At the same time if we refrain from taking advantage of foreign sub-standards and lenient laws, they should help us enforce our laws such as immigration, drug-trafficing and counterfeiting. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Hakan Falk Sent: Sun 8/14/2005 5:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, This is not really the question form and maybe many others. It is not the question of that US is engaged, it is the way US does it and traditionally did it. It is immoral to support activities by their corporations, that are not up to their standards and laws for US at home. It is not morally justifiable to support oppressive regimes, in order to support US financial interests. We can only mention The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. as a few of a long list that were helped to power and then maintained by US. Iraq is the result of a misunderstanding, Saddam Hussein asked for the US permission to invade Kuweit and thought that he got it. Hakan At 02:45 14/08/2005, you wrote: There seems to be general agreement on this list that the U.S. should avoid foreign entanglements, at least when it comes to some of the uglier tenets of foreign policy. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about so called benevolent tenets as well? Even feeding and clothing the oppressed will upset the oppressors. Perhaps what a foreign entanglement refers to is a personal decision driven by that person's views toward any one particular governmental involvement? Tim Schlueter St. Louis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 11:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Mike, Where do I start? First, I have a real problem with any government (U.S., state, local) taking my hard earned money (in the form of taxes) and redistributing it to others. Now, there are legitimate things that each of these levels
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
. With a targeted and reality based legislation, a lot will disappear. I must be something very wrong, with a country that have 21 years as legal sexual age, which make most Americans criminals already when they start their adult life. Laws should be reasonable, adopted to realities and regarded as fair by the majority, then it will be anchored and followed by most of the population. The laws of any country are the concerns of that country and is only when laws are matching between countries, that cooperation can be established. To help with an other country's immigration, laws about leaving a country must be established and emigration can be controlled. Any country who establish laws about the rights to leave the country, will be branded as suppressive by US and might be invaded by US (subject to sufficient oil reserves). LOL Counterfeiting is an area with intensive international cooperation and your complain is baseless. It does not matter where he $´s are produced, it is criminal. US $ and Euro are attractive money, but US currency is far easier to counterfeit. Hakan At 05:34 15/08/2005, you wrote: Hakan, Yes, that is quite immoral to export our dirty work much less support oppresive regimes for any reason. My question is how can we avoid foreign entanglements, regardless of methods, without being completely discompassionate? At the same time if we refrain from taking advantage of foreign sub-standards and lenient laws, they should help us enforce our laws such as immigration, drug-trafficing and counterfeiting. Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Hakan Falk Sent: Sun 8/14/2005 5:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Tim, This is not really the question form and maybe many others. It is not the question of that US is engaged, it is the way US does it and traditionally did it. It is immoral to support activities by their corporations, that are not up to their standards and laws for US at home. It is not morally justifiable to support oppressive regimes, in order to support US financial interests. We can only mention The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. as a few of a long list that were helped to power and then maintained by US. Iraq is the result of a misunderstanding, Saddam Hussein asked for the US permission to invade Kuweit and thought that he got it. Hakan At 02:45 14/08/2005, you wrote: There seems to be general agreement on this list that the U.S. should avoid foreign entanglements, at least when it comes to some of the uglier tenets of foreign policy. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about so called benevolent tenets as well? Even feeding and clothing the oppressed will upset the oppressors. Perhaps what a foreign entanglement refers to is a personal decision driven by that person's views toward any one particular governmental involvement? Tim Schlueter St. Louis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 11:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Mike, Where do I start? First, I have a real problem with any government (U.S., state, local) taking my hard earned money (in the form of taxes) and redistributing it to others. Now, there are legitimate things that each of these levels of government can spend taxpayer dollars on, namely, those outlined in their constitution or charter. In the case of the U.S. Government, these include national defense (not necessarily offense, though), minting currency, postal services, etc. When the U.S. Government (or perhaps the state governments) start spending my money outside the bounds of the Constitution, it is no longer legit. I would like to see Congress try and pass an Amendment to allow giving loans to foreign nations and never expecting repayment of those loans. How much support do you think they would get from the populace? Second, some people may consider giving funds or supplies to help poorer nations or refugee groups as charity, which it is. But charity is you or I freely donating my money to others for the purpose of helping those in need. I have given money to help victims of 9-11, I have helped feed the homeless in soup kitchens, I have given my old clothing and furniture to Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. Governments, such as our federal government, do not own the money they give to others - the money belongs to the taxpayers (and bond holders) who provide the money. How can the U.S. Government consider giving money to poor African countries as charity, when it isn't their money to give? As I mentioned previously, if the U.S. Government would stop taking my hard earned money and donating away, perhaps I would have more money that I could freely give
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
There seems to be general agreement on this list that the U.S. should avoid foreign entanglements, at least when it comes to some of the uglier tenets of foreign policy. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about so called benevolent tenets as well? Even feeding and clothing the oppressed will upset the oppressors. Perhaps what a foreign entanglement refers to is a personal decision driven by that person's views toward any one particular governmental involvement? Tim Schlueter St. Louis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 11:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Mike, Where do I start? First, I have a real problem with any government (U.S., state, local) taking my hard earned money (in the form of taxes) and redistributing it to others. Now, there are legitimate things that each of these levels of government can spend taxpayer dollars on, namely, those outlined in their constitution or charter. In the case of the U.S. Government, these include national defense (not necessarily offense, though), minting currency, postal services, etc. When the U.S. Government (or perhaps the state governments) start spending my money outside the bounds of the Constitution, it is no longer legit. I would like to see Congress try and pass an Amendment to allow giving loans to foreign nations and never expecting repayment of those loans. How much support do you think they would get from the populace? Second, some people may consider giving funds or supplies to help poorer nations or refugee groups as charity, which it is. But charity is you or I freely donating my money to others for the purpose of helping those in need. I have given money to help victims of 9-11, I have helped feed the homeless in soup kitchens, I have given my old clothing and furniture to Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. Governments, such as our federal government, do not own the money they give to others - the money belongs to the taxpayers (and bond holders) who provide the money. How can the U.S. Government consider giving money to poor African countries as charity, when it isn't their money to give? As I mentioned previously, if the U.S. Government would stop taking my hard earned money and donating away, perhaps I would have more money that I could freely give to organizations like the Red Cross (this is only one example, there are others) as charity. Third, the idea of giving for the sake of giving is lost on most politicians. Inside the Beltway, a politician's power is measured by his or her ability to fundraise - accepting money from some generous sole to support some Cause of the day. Have you ever met a political donor that didn't expect something in return? The President and Congress are just as guilty of wanting something in return for helping other nations. How much money have they pumped into the poorer nations of the Iraq War Coalition? Socialism and true communism may have its value to some and will thrive in some places of the world, but I prefer not to live under it. Or at least, if I have to, please call it as such - The Socialist Unoin of America. The same goes for the United Nations. Thanks for the opportunity to explain myself. Earl. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Earl, Earl wrote: It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to donate any portion of their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale. Giving it a name (i.e. socialism or ...ism), doesn't explain why you disagree. Please include something to support your position. There are people in this list who (despite McCarthy's legacy) understand the value of socialism and even communism (not to be confused with Stalin's mislabeled brand of fascism) as a theoretical model for democracy. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:48:58 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country Dale, I don't mean to deflate your dream, but why do we need the government beauracracy (of which the UN most certainly is) to guarranty these basic human rights? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of every person on the planet to protect his or her basic rights? It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to donate any portion of their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale. Your other point about
RE: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
Reminds me of this quote by Ronald Reagan almost 20 years ago: Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. I suppose the idea behind this tax is to make people pay the true cost of burning dino fuels. I have to wonder though for what this tax really pays? Tim Schlueter Missouri -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Lloyd Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 5:36 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel It also interesting to note that tax accounts for 69.9% of the total cost! Can that be right! YES it bloody well is and some places charge up to 7 dollars for a sized US gallon. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.7/34 - Release Date: 29/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
The price of gas in UK is striking! Attached is a fuel price report published by The Automobile Association of UK. I calculate the US dollar cost of a US gallon of 95 octane(don't know ethanol content) purchased in the UK to be $5.77. This is closer to the Ireland cost quoted below vs. the England quote. Actually, this report shows Irish gas costing more than English. It also interesting to note that tax accounts for 69.9% of the total cost! Can that be right! In Missouri we pay $.3543/gallon or about 16%. Tim Schlueter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paddy O'Reilly Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel I'm not sure what the average price of gas (aka petrol) is in the US, in Ireland it has just passed the Euro mark per litre - that's USD5.44 a gallon and in England its about 90p per litre - that's USD8.17 a gallon. Perhaps this kind of price in the US will be enough to get people's attention (George Bush and his cohorts would be delighted at this price). Unfortunately nothing significant is still being done in Europe about changing to biofuels. Bill Vaughn wrote: Mean while the Japanese figured out how to make hybrids at a prices to sell to the American public. Seems there is a line waiting for the hybrids now because of the souring gas prices. Again the big three are slow to answer to the American public and their sinking sales prove once again they don't have a clue. Bill The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
