Re: [biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method
Kevin, have to agree with you that the preparation of the methoxide can be a dangerous step. There are some good methods mentioned on JTF, but most of them take time. To get around the NaOH dissolving in methanol problem I have developed a method of using NaOH in the form of a concentrated aqueous solution. The NaOH dissolves readily into the water and is available as a stock solution when needed. To make methoxide the Conc Aqueous NaOH is measured out and poured slowly with stirring into the methanol. Result a crystal clear methoxide prepared in a minute or two. Dissolve 100g of NaOH (flakes, pellets or pearls) in 90ml of distilled water. Some stirring will be needed and the solution will get very hot. Mix in a heatproof non metalic container and avoid breathing the fumes. This will give you 1200ml of solution. Store in an airtight plastic bottle at ground level away from children. When making up the methoxide multiply the grams of NaOH/litre required by 1.2. If the ambient temperature is below 20 deg C the conc NaOH solution will tend to solidify and may need to be shaken or warmed. One of the golden rules of biodiesel making is to avoid water at all costs. In this case however the small ammount of water in the Conc NaOH solution does not seem to have a detrimental effect. The above advise is offered as asistance, not to prove a point or promote a particular way of making methoxide. Try it and if you like it great I have been of help. There are sure to be a few comments from the detractors of this method. I'm flying out this evening, not back till Monday, so will not be available for comment till then. Regards Paul Gobert - Original Message - From: Kevin Shea To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to agitate the Lye powder into the methanol? I use a type 20 Lightning mixer (with small propeller agitator), but have problems with the dissolving of Sodium Hydroxide I mix 3.75 liters of methanol to the appropriate amount of sodium hydroxide in a 5 gallon carboy (with small hole drilled in cap) and let mix for 15 minutes. My problem is that the sodium hydroxide fails to dissolve completely with the methanol. I can see lots of clumped Lye! I hate this part of the process!!! and it is the most dangerous!! I take as much precaution as possible not to expose myself and wear proper safety protection. I'm not crazy about mixing for longer period with an electric mixer or have something happen to cause a catastrophic event, so I'm trying to minimize this danger window of this process Most likely I'll mix the next batch of Sodium Methoxide in a smaller carboy (HDPE), and that should hopefully help. Maybe the propeller shaft should be a larger design?? Anyway, I'm interested in the most efficient (Safe) methods and how long agitation should be? I use the Red Devil powder Lye. Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Combining small batches into a common settling tank
Mark, I've done much the same thing mixing up 15L batches by hand shaking in 20L sealable container and bulking them into a larger container. Shouldn't be a problem on a larger scale. Regards Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy I am wondering if there are any ill effects from combining several small batches of bio into a large settling tank? For example, Making several 50 liter batches in one day and put them all into a larger tank to separate/wash. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrated Lye
Biobenz,, Hydrated Lye is not a term I am familiar with. A google search provided only one link where the words were mentioned i9n a list of ingredients but no mention of how the material was used. Hydrated Lime is a common term for Ca(OH)2 or slaked lime. So called because it can be make by slaking or adding water to Quick lime CaO. Generally water is to be avoided in BD making. However my std process involves the use of the NaOH in the form of a concentrated solution. Its a controversial method but suits my processing. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: pre-mixed Phenolphthalein solution ???
- Original Message - From: biobenz snip I figure that if I can eliminate the number of screw-up factors then if/when something goes awry that way I will already have most of the posible sources discounted :) So I guess I need to give them a caall and get the pre-mxed stuff huh? It's not all that dear (expensive) and it just eliminates one more item that can go wrong. I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, so I need the averages on my side :)Chemistry classes, I think, were for someone else :) and then I lost interest. Little did I know Try to keep detailed records of everything you do this will help to show what you are doing right and what doesn't work too well. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] pre-mixed Phenolphthalein solution ???
- Original Message - From: biobenz The chem supply house I am dealing with offers the Phenolphthalein in a pre-mixed alcohol solution at 1%. Would this work as well or better than the do-it-yourself method ? Biobenz, If you are unable to get 95% ethanol or don't want to go to the trouble of making up the phenolphthalein solution yourself, the premixed solution would be a great idea. It would also be neutralalised in manufacture. Would indeed work just as well as or better. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein
- Original Message - From: Dermot Thanks for the help Paul, Now I can't get ethanol except in 45 gallon drums! Is vodka close enough to ethanol and could I mix the phenolphthalein with it? Regards Dermot Dermot, not being a consumer of things alcoholic I'm not sure of the proof of vodka. 98% pure alcohol would be almost 200 proof. Don't imaging any drink for human consumption would be that strong. Whilst working for a pharmaceutical company once I was analysing one of their raw materials. The analysis consisted in serial dilutions in pure ethanol with 2% hydrochloric acid. Sucked a bit too hard on the pipette and got half a mouthful of the brew. That night whilst eating dinner the 1st layer of skin came away from the inside of my mouth. You could give the vodka a try. Soime brands of methylated Spirits sold out here in Oz are mostly ethanol could be worth investigating. Perhaps methanol could be substituted, the phenolphthalein definately prefers to be disolved in alcohol. Have to be even more careful not to get this mix on your skin though. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 5 micron filtering
- Original Message - From: biobenz The final filtering of my biodiesel just before it goes into the tank is via an automotive Diesel filter. C.A.V. with water trap, 1 micron cartidge, BD gravity fed through the filter into a storage container. Admittedly this is a small scale setup and time is not a problem. Good processing and washing sees the BD crystal clear before it enters the filter. At one stage I was filtering the finished BD through 1 micron filterpapers but the setup, with four funnels and the BD metered to them was very messy. Regards Paul Gobert Would a standard truck fuel fieter work for the final filtering of the biofuel or should I be looking at something else? The idea was to get the long filter as well as it's mounting hardware and then use a drill pump to push it through. They are screw on type filters and are only changed in big trucks every 35,000Km or so, so one set up shopuld be good for quite some time unless you are a big time biodiesel producer, and then you would already have a more elaborate and automated system. Thanks for any feedback. I am trying to get my ducks in a row and these questions keep poping up so I figure the best time to ask is when the iron is hot. PS: My alter ego LoveMyDiesel2003's password wasn't responding so I had to make a new one and this is it. I will be using this one from now on. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein
- Original Message - From: Dermot Subject: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein I've managed at last to get some phenolphthalein to perform titrations but unfortunately it's in powder form. I think it needs to be mixed with ethanol in a 1% w/v solution. Can anyone confirm this? Dissolve the phenolphthalein in 2/3 of the final volume of ethanol. When it has all dissolved add with stirring half as much distilled water. Add dilute sodium hydroxide solution ( the solution you use to titrate will do) until the phenolphthalein solution just shows a slight pinkish tinge. Store in an airtight bottle out of light.and away from sources of ignition. Can I mix it with isopropyl alcohol instead? I'm not sure what the solubility of phenolphthalein is in isopropyl alcohol. Could be worth a try. Regards Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol recovery before separation
- Original Message - From: Kenneth Kron Catching up on ancient email. If one continues mixing until the reaction is complete and I have not heard of any evidence that indicates separation is required for the reaction to complete and then introduces into the reactor enough acid to quench the sodium catalyst then I see no reason why you should not be able to recover the methanol before separation. Kenneth, I can see a problem here if the process was single base and the feedstock was high in FFA. The addition of acid could convert the soap formed from the initial neutralisation back into FFA. Careful monitoring of the ammount of acid added might prevent this. Whilst FFA is a good fuel in itself its compatability with the components of a diesel engine is highly suspect. In fact if you follow the Fool proof method then you do almost exactly this. You separate the glycerin, mix it with phosphoric acid and mix it back into your biodiesel. You've quenched the reaction right there and have everything mixed up. If it's critical to add the acid to the glycerin for some reason (which I don't quite see) you should have plenty on hand from previous reactions. Another way to strip some of the methanol from the raw biodiesel would be to use glycerine from which the methanol had already been distilled.. Mix the raw biodiesel and the glycerine. The methanol will disperse 50/50 in the biodiesel and the glycerine. The methanol can be distilled from the glycerine. But would it be cost effective? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
x-charset ISO-8859-1Whilst I in no way advocate carelessness when handling chemicals the dangers should be put into perspective. A comparison of the Material Safety Data Sheets for methanol and petrol (gas in US) show some similarities in dangers. Chemicals can be handled safely. Be forewarned of the dangers and design your processing around them. Regards, Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: Go Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail There are warnings all over alt fuel sites about dealing with methanol because of course it is nasty poisonous stuff. I have not been experimenting with the process cuss the info on 'journey' and elsewhere scared me. However I just started re-talking to an old friend who has been driving methanol race cars for 34 years. He is a non drooling family man with 5 children and a multitude of grandchildren with a vitality many 30 year olds lack. Apart from messing with methanol 6 months of the year he does a lot of head slamming, violent body 'G' forced exercises, explosions, engulfing fires and heavy disagreements between crew and promoters - between rounds, routinely. I get the impression that he and his crew sort of slop methanol around from the barrel to the container to the race car - he assures me they do not wear special clothing or breathing apparatus, he doesn't remember if they wear gloves but supposes they do if they have them on at the time. I remember buying an USA made hammer in the 70*s it was hung with labels and stuff saying to wear protective glasses, gloves, overalls etc and to keep children and pets away, not to leave it unattended and to hide it or lock it up from potential thieves - failure to do any of that stuff would void it's warranty - it was a hammer for goodness sakes - are you Americans nuts? Anyway, I would really like to know if anyone has died by handling - not drinking because that is deathly - methanol, and if so if the poison intrudes through the skin or the airways. Hmm... I Guess this is a bit beyond our competence maybe but even my doctor agrees, stay curiouse - try and work it out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] First Batch
x-charset ISO-8859-1 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] As I recall your conc. aq. lye soln. method was found wanting by someone with extensive knowledge and experience who submitted your results to a GC test. Keith I'm not aware of any such GC test. A non-GC test on a very early test batch indicated that the glycerides were slightly high. GC Analysis was performed on samples from a test to compare BD made from the same feedstock using methoxides prepared by a). dissolving sodium metal in methanol b). dissolving solid sodium hydroxide in methanol and c).conc aqueous sodium hydroxide mixed into methanol the resultant BD was warmed to evaporate any excess methanol but was not washed. I have revisited the results The only significant difference in the figures is at the highest peak which is for 9-Octadecenoic acid (Z)-, methyl ester, 10-Octadecenoic acid, methyl ester and 6-Octadecenoic acid, methyl ester. a). 60.79 b). 64.37 c).64.34. The lower peaks were all methyl esters with a difference of less than 0.05 of a % total between them. These results are open to interpretation to those more knowledgable about interpreting GC results than myself. Factors to consider are: 1/. The GC only detects the chemicals for which the column is designed and calibrated. 2/. Only organic chemicals are detected. Taking the above into consideration the results indicated that there was very little difference between these analysis results for the Biodiesels made using methoxides b).and c). Regards Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] First Batch
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Increasing the basic lye amount from 3.5 to 4.5 grams per litre of oil is not good advice. snip And then? Spend a whole lot of time developing super-gentle washing methods to hide the fact that you're not processing the stuff properly in the first place, etc etc etc. Sheesh. Keith tests that I have run varying the ammount of lye in steps 0.5g either side of the ammount indicated by titration have shown that the batches using higher than titration levels of lye wash much easier than those using the titration ammount or less. There are times when it's advisable to increase the basic amount, but NOT as a general rule, and certainly not for virgin oil. It might not make too much difference with virgin oil, because virgin oil is very forgiving of bad technique, but I've had several cases of good WVO with low titration - less than 2ml - which nonetheless would not process well with anything more than the basic lye quantity of 3.5 gm/litre plus the exact titration amount: anything even slightly above that brought lower production, more soap, and difficult washing. These were just tests, using single-stage, there weren't any problems processing the oil with acid-base, but it's single-stage we're talking about here. I did a lot of tests with various oils and found that the usual base figure of 3.5 grams per litre of oil is correct, 4.5 grams is generally bad advice. Other people's tests have confirmed that. Since then we've encountered many cases where using 4.5 grams as the basic quantity would give poor results. There are times when the basic quantity should be increased, but these exceptions are quite specific, not at all some sweeping, across-the-board measure: As the ammount of lye is increased above the titration ammount both the density and the viscosity of the washed BD decrease indicating more complete conversion of tri, di and mono glycerides to BD. At the same time the volume of yield drops, so a compromise has to be reached where the fuel is regarded as suitable for use. Conversly using less than the titration ammount of lye gives a yield above 100%. A conversion of near 100% may be required to meet standards but less than that may be quite ok as fuel. Some BD makers are using low levels of Methanol ( below 20%) without extending the reaction time. Whilst the conversion might not be 100% it may still be suitable fuel, Would be interesting to know what degree of conversion is required to produce a fuel suitable for troublefre longterm use, especially in situations where the fuel is heated before being injected. Adding methanol/lye mix to Oil. My reason for mentioning this is that tests I have done retreating BD have shown that if a the BD is treated with a methanol/lye mix which has a higher than normal ratio of lye to methanol, the result will be jelly. Slow addition of methanol/lye to stirred oil prevents the oil/methoxide interface which can result from a sudden addition of one component to the other. This interface between the two phases, I feel favours, the production of soap. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First Batch
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Paul, I'm afraid I'm inclined to take all your test results with a grain of salt (not to break the emulsion, LOL!) because of the methods you use. You use your concentrated aqueous lye solution as standard, yes? snip For my production batches yes but not for test batches, like to eliminate as many variables as possible. Many or most of us here do not use this method, we've examined it at length and in depth and find the practice of deliberately adding water to the process as your method does adds unneeded variables which would discount the reliability of your results, and it's superfluous anyway. Superflous for you practical for me. To each their own with tollerance for the other persons preference. Please let's not have this argument again here now, and again please let's not have any of the extremely dubious endorsements so to speak that the method has had from elsewhere. Keith arguments are something I don't enter into unless I have something to gain. I presented the method, others have tried it and it suited their production methods..If others want to use it I am happy to help . At no time do I insist that it is the only way to go. Wether or not anyone uses the method is of no concern to me. What does concern me however is when my results are denigrated. My work has been conducted in a scientific manner, is fully documented and can be duplicated by anybody given the same materials and conditions. Can the same be said for the detractors of the method? Very few of us in this group have access to facilities and equipment to provide definitive test results. At best we can only offer guidelines which are often subjective. My objective is to follow the old principle, First know the rules then bend them I'm a stubborn old bugger who likes to learn by his mistakes, and on the way have come to some interesting conclusions on BD making based on scientificly conducted investigations. Of course I'm not disagreeing with your use of your conc. aq. lye soln., it works for you so fine, no problem, but when you start giving test results using the conc. aq. lye soln. you should say so, because it is not a standard method and gives different results, or at the least adds variables. I'm saying this now because you've done that before without specifying it, I had to ask you, as I'm having to ask you again now. In the future if the test results I quote involve the use of conc aqueous NaOH or any other variation from the standard methodI will state such. Regards Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First Batch
Rick, Would suggest adding the methanol/lye mix to the oil, the slower the better. Adding oil to methanol/lye might require less equipment but its a great way to make soap. You could also increase the ammount of lye slighlty to say 4.5g per litre which will push the process al;ong nicely. Regards, Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:39 AM Subject: [biofuel] First Batch Well I made my first blender batch of Biodiesel last night. I am proud to say that I made a great batch of GLOP I am not sure what I did wrong. I think maybe the Lye and Methanol did not get mixed good enough. I used 1 liter of new oil, 200 ml of Methanol, and 3.5 grams of lye. What do you suppose went wrong? I blended the lye for almost a min then added the new veggie oil and blended for another 15 min. It made a real nice batch of goo. Any suggestion? Rick M Brownstown. Mi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] effects of using BD without retarding the pump
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What would happen if you wanted to retain the pump setting used for petrodiesel so you could use it if you ahd to and not have the timing too far retarded. Will this cause the diesel engine to produce massive amounts of pollution and/or unmanageable EGTs? If not, are there any other downsides to leaving the pump in its dynamic timing for #2? Thanks, J.D. J.D. from what I have observed very few people change the timing on their diesels when using BD. My Hilux is a smokey runner on petroleum diesel but with biodiesel or strong BD/petro mixes the exhaust cleans up nicely. There is reportedly a slight drop in power when using BD, but my vehicle seems to run better. This might be because there is a lot of fat in the oil I use to make BD which results in a high cetane number fuel. It certainly quietens the diesel knock regards, Paul Gobert Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Was deodorant..
- Original Message - From: Grahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Anti-Smoking Manifesto Bra It seems to be over someone's top. Caroline LOL, good on you Caroline you are a good sort. Regards, Paul Gobert Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
O.T. Deodorants ( was Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1902)
Caroline here is something that looks to me to be completely over the top. I might add that I'm a millitant antismoker. Courier Mail 6th Nov 2003 (Australia) snip The Anti-Smoking Manifesto Bra comes with capsules containing lavender and jasmine fragrances mounted in the cleavage. These capsules have two purposes, said Triumph spokeswoman Megumi Ishii. They were supposed to calm the nerves of people trying to quit. And they were designed as aversion therapy for hardcore smokers as the fragrances made cigarettes taste unpleasant. But it doesn't end there. The surface of the bra and shorts are coated with liquified titanium oxide, a substance which could break down unpleasant smoke smells. And if that fails, a pad attached to the Triumph bra could be used as a face mask in smokey bars. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: test batch questions
Bill I think the problem is the high acidity of your oil. It requires so much lye to neutralise the freefatty acids that a lot of soap is being formed which prevents the separation of the BD and glycerine. To rescue it you could add some acetic acid and mix it all up to a slurry. You will get separation this way but the soap formed before will revert to free fatty acids, leaving a mixture of BD and FFA. oil with such a high free fatty acid content is better processed using a two stage acid/base method. One way to process it using single stage base, is to neutralise the free fatty acids before adding the methoxide. Heat the oil up to about 100 deg C and stir in some lime. The ammount to use coresponds roughly to the titration in grams. Stir for about an hour (less could work). The lime neutralises the FFA and forms calcium soaps which are insoluble in the oil. Allow to settle,cool, pour off the oil and process. Titration should be now much lower and less lye requyired, thereby giving much less soap in the final product and a good separation should result. Be sure to use lime in the form of Calcium hydroxide (slaked lime), some lime sold over here in hardware stores is calcium carbonate (powdered limestone) and that won't work. Regards, Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: whc281 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:13 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: test batch questions Still making goo. I heated a liter of the oil really hot (~300 F) on the stove to see if any water would boil off. I decided the oil doesn't have any entrained water. I did a titration and determined the needed amount of lye to neutralize the free fatty acids to be 8 to 9 grams/liter, + 3.5 grams for the esterification, = 11.5 to 12.5 grams/liter! I made test batch #9. A one liter batch. Preheated oil (~140 F). Premixed the lye into 200 ml of methanol until dissolved (5 minutes). Then poured them together in a sealed jar (no methanol evaporation). Shook for 10-12 minutes. Allowed to settle at room temp. Result: about 10% oil, 90% goo. What now?! Help! Should I keep it warm during settling? Should I mix the sodium methoxide longer? Bill Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Ist Biodiesel Limo and taxi company
Bill Althouse wrote: Hi, America's first biodiesel Limousine rolled out onto the Interstate today! The Limo is a factory built 300D always stored inside with 50,000 original miles, mint condition. I ran the tank nearly empty and filled up with World Energy Biodiesel with the engine running. About 60 seconds after I began pouring the biodiesel, the engine suddenly got much more quiet. Anyone know why biodiesel made the engine more quiet? snip Bill the engine would be quieter on biodiesel if the cetane number of the biodiesel is higher than the deisel it displaced. The higher the cetane the less time it takes for the flame propogation of the burning fuel and hence less knock. I find that in summer I can use biodiesel made from tallow Tallow Biodiesel has a high cetane number and the engine runs very quietly on it.. regards, Paul Goibert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein solution for titration
- Original Message - From: simonswb6 [EMAIL PROTECTED] i found this online 'Phenolphthalein Indicating Solution, 1% in Alcohol, 125ml' is this ok for doing titration? it has 1% Alcohol? Yes that solution will be quite suitable. It is more likely 1% phenolphthalein in alcohol which is a standard mix for phenolphthalein indicator. Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel redline
- Original Message - From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a question for you engineers out there. What limits the rev redline on diesel engines? I've noticed that a lot of diesels are limited to revs down in the 3000 rpm range, and IMHO this is one of the things that limits their power to weight ratio. AP Alan, whilst I am certainly no engineer, as an owner of a diesel vehicle I can report some observations and pose a few more questions. Perhaps the solider construction and hence weight of the pistons, rods and crank limit the revs. Some large truck engines are lucky to rev to 2000 and large marine diesels don't even see 1000 rpm. The tacho on my Hilux 2.2l diesel goes yellow at 4300 rpm and red at 4800 rpm. In practise it just runs out of go at 4000 rpm, downhill runs have seen in excess of 4000 rpm come up but I rarely do that out of respect for the vehicle, its dynamics just aren't suited to that use. My usual practise is to keep the revs between 2500 and 4000. Steep hills with a full load test the limitations of the four speed box especially the gap between second and third. Often second gear has to held because the revs would be too low in third, the engine will happily run up the revs in second so I back off on the throttle and maintain a reasonable rpm. There is a healthy ammount of torque available at the 3000+ level and if you can get the revs up there in top gear the vehicle will run happily at 100 to 110 kph all day, empty or fully loaded. Having been a petrol head in my younger days I often wonder whether camshaft profile ( valve timing) influences diesel engines as much as it does petrol engines. Would individual inlet pipes be better than the branched manifolds that are usually standard? Certainly headers are available aftermarket and big bore exhaust systems. Would porting and pollishing or even chamber shape modification have an effect? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mixing pumps
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip At minimum you would also want the drive motor enclosure to be TEFC, fan cooled, continuous duty and preferable thermal overload protected. snip Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't, totally enclosed, fan cooled be an oxymoron? Surely the cooling air has to enter and exit? Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mixing pumps
I stand corrected there Todd, got to thinking after I made that post. As you say a motor in a finned encapsulated case wth a fan on the dead end of the output shaft flowing air through the fins would qualify. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] mixing pumps wouldn't, totally enclosed, fan cooled be an oxymoron? Paul, Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ooops! - Re: milk fat
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip dewatering the butter is easy enough. Take 400 g of butter, heat (indirect) to 60 deg C, maintain for 15 minutes. It sort of clarifies and a bunch of thick whitish gunk falls out at the bottom (buttermilk?). You're left with 315 g butter and 100 g buttermilk. That should have been: You're left with 315 ml butter and 100 ml buttermilk. snip Not too sure that the dairy industry would call the residue buttermilk Keith. Buttermilk is the liquid which is drained from the butter after churning. Usually about 1% fat which when compared with the 45% fat in the cream used for buttermaking, makes for a pretty efficient conversion to butter. Regards,Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] milk fat
Can I use cow's milk fat to make biodiesel? Keith, Brent, Butter contains water, its an emulsion of water in milk fat which is accomplished during the churning, can't remember offhand the % of water present. Ghee or dehydrated butter would be a better feedstock One of the tests on butter in dairy labs is water content. The water is boiled out of a known weight of butter. End result is a golden liquid with a crumb-like deposit in the bottom of the flask (could be proteins, milk solids and salt). Filtering would be required or a more gentle heat treatment. The residue from the moisture test is then used for the salt test. The salt may be a factor to be taken into account, better to use unsalted butter. From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Brent When you say cow's milk fat you mean butter? snip Ghee would be the purest form of milk fat available. Whilst cheese contains up to 30% fat in some varieties the fat would have to be extracted by solvent extraction/digestion. Milk from currently used Freezian cows runs at about 4% butterfat. the traditional method of testing milk for butterfat involved the use of near concentrated sulphuric acid and centrifuging to release the fat from the proteins and allow it to accumulate in the neck of a graduated test flask, this was the Babcock test. Today Lab instruments, made mainly by Foss are used to analyse milk. Other mammals besides cows yield much higher fat contents in their milk. Sheep milk is higher in fat content and Wallrus milk is about 50% fat I seem to remember. Can't imaging farming/milking the latter. regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Porsche diesel coming for 2005...
- Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: [biofuel] Porsche diesel coming for 2005... snip Wow, Ed that will be some diesel A true tribute to old Ferdinand. Not much room there for a two tank SVO system. As they say at the end of the article it will be interesting to hear it in action, will expect a nice purr under engine braking. Regards,Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ammoniac ( NH3 )
- Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 6:02 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ammoniac ( NH3 ) Hi all, I think I have asked this question before, but I can't remember about getting an answer to it. In Holland we are having big problems with NH3 polution from chicken houses and pig houses, where the farmers keep hundreds of thouthands of chickens or thouthands of pigs. The air coming out of these houses, contain very much NH3. Is there a way to clean this air, and use the NH3 as a fuel ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. Pieter, the air can be easily stripped of ammonia by spraying a fine mist of water into it. Ammonia is very soluble in water. The resultant solution of ammonium hydroxide can be used as a fertiliser. Not sure how it could be captured and used directly as a fuel. ammonia forms explosive mixtures with air over quite a range of concentraion. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fitting a turbo (was SVO in turbodiesels)
- Original Message - From: Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Paul. I would consider a good maintenance for that engine, first of all. Engine reconditioned about 10,000k ago after picking up a bigend. Running like a swiss watch after some annoying oil leaks caused by installation of poor quality seals by reconditioner. I should have stuck with the local Toyota dealership who did a good job on the engine's first recondition. I used to drive a Toyota Hi-Lux pick up with the 2.2 L engine, a 1981 model, from brand new up to about 600,000 Km on it :-) without cargo its acceleration was good but with more than 800 kg on it, I suffer from its slugish acceleration. Mine is the dual cab 4wd, even more sluggish than the standard pickup. It will run all day at 110kph and beyond if you let it but don't mention hills. With patience and the adaption of the planning required when driving low powered vehicles it doesn't embarass itself. It is a good engine if its copression is Ok and the fuel injectors are in good shape. Besides its fuel consuption is really low for a 1 ton pick up without cargo, I used to get about 8 litres/100 Km at 90 Km/h on road with it (the model did not have air conditioner from factory). With all the extra hardware the 4wd has to carry(including the add-ons of Bullbar, winch and longrange fuel tank) my mileage is more like 9.5 litres/100km, the freewheel hubs help . Its a fairly crude vehicle for this day and age, rough ride and all but the log book figures have shown me it has been the most reliable, economical vehicle I have ever owned and that tray in the back gets plenty of use including transporting drums of WVO and WAF. If I need comfort, speed and agility along with a rewarding driving experience, well there a a couple of Pug 504's in the back yard almost ready for registration, and one is a diesel. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fitting a turbo (was SVO in turbodiesels)
- Original Message - From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many aircraft are turbocharged this way. Instead of being rigidly mounted to the engine core the turbo is mounted behind it on the firewall, and connected with flexible exhaust pipes. I don't know what the pitfalls of such an installation would be for cars. I suspect the added plumbing would make for a lot of turbo lag, which isn't a problem for airplanes but could be for cars. Greetings Alan, Yes turbo lag could be a problem, but heck if I can live with low power and planning every passing move five minutes in advance the addition of turbo lag could be interesting. At least there could be power there when I want it. Guess i could hold the lower gear longer to get the turbo spinning and then take advantage of its inertia to get power on the upchange, would be quite a different driving technique than present. Just out of interest, I have heard very little about modifying camshafts in diesels as is done in petrol engines to shift power and torque bands or optimise for modifications. Perhaps fumigation could be incorporated to alleviate the lag, plenty of room in the back for a LPG tank. Plenty available secondhand in this area as the price of a litre of LPG has rissen above 2/3 that of a litre of petrol . . Do turbos rely on the sudden pulses of the exhaust gas as it exits the exhaust ports and expands or the total flow of the exhaust gas?. . Um... well, the answer to that question is yes. Depending on the design of the turbine. Something I would have to investigate before embarking on this modification. Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fitting a turbo (was SVO in turbodiesels)
- Original Message - From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alan, An intercooler will cool the incoming air charge, allowing more fueling and power without adding any more heat - unless you turn the fueling up a whole lot. Adding a pyrometer (aka EGT gauge - exhaust gas temperature ) and a turbo boost gauge at the same time will help you make sure you don't add so much power by turning up the fueling than you melt something. How to add a turbo is another question - if there's anyone who makes a kit for it, that'd be easiest, if not, you'll have to get an intercooler from a junkyard - I know a guy who's added a Saab or Mustang gas engine intercooler to a Mercedes 300D - I could give you his number if you contacted me off-list. Craig I have a rather smokey Hilux 2.2 deisel (1982 model). Even smokes a bit on `100% BD. Have been thinking of turboing it to reduce smoke and give it a much needed power boost. Kits are probably no longer available for this engine and would be expensive to get a turbo adapted. Have decided to investigate fitting a secondhand turbo in the exhaust pipe and mounted on the chassis behind the cab under the tray. Exhaust will exit through vertical stack/muffer. Air intake will be mounted on other side feeding through filter to turbo inlet. Engine/exhaust pipe up to turbo will probably need insulation to maintain volume of flow. Piping of air from turbo ( along chassis) to engine can be finned to act as an intercooler. I'm not after high pressure boost but i'm curious to know if locating a turbo remote from the engine like this would be effective. Certainly would make fitting one to an older vehicle much easier. Do turbos rely on the sudden pulses of the exhaust gas as it exits the exhaust ports and expands or the total flow of the exhaust gas?. . Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level. Hi Paul Covered most of this already - see: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=26692list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Thanks Keith, must have missed that one. My computer/connection is not bringing up the page at the moment so will check it later. Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel
- Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 5:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! snip Congratulations Jack, any particular areas you had to concentrate on to get the BD to ASTM spec? Large excess of methanol, prolonged agitation, extended settling time, thorough washing? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] NATRIUM METHOXIDE
- Original Message - From: Johnsson Tomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello All, I was just talking with a soap maker about glycerin when he asked about the the process for manufactutring BD. He suggested the using of natrium methoxide have some one experince or information (pros and cons) of using natrium methoxide as katalyst. /Tomas Greetings Tomas, Natrium is another name for Sodium as in Sodium methoxide. The symbol Na for sodiu7m is derived from natrium. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Separation of water from WVO
- Original Message - From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Terry Lohnes' original post reported that : Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80% soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. My concern is that this is not representative of typical water contamination percentages Yes David, I too think that the lower percentages would be of more relevance. My main concern however is someone who claimed to be a Chemical Engineer ( could be wrong there Terry, my appologies if I am) using the formulae CaCl for Calcium chloride. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Monsanto Sues Small Dairy In Maine Over Growth Hormone Comment
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has anyone ever noticed the vast discrepancy between the expiration dates on organic milk vs government issue milk? Government issue pasteurized usually has at best a week before it's use date is reached, with freshly stocked shelves sometimes having but a day or two's time window. Yet organic milk, more frequently than not, has as much as a 30 day + expiration window. Quite a difference on many counts there Todd. Haven't had much to do with organic milk, but have spent most of my working life in Dairy Companies in their Labs and on the factory floor. Often people would bring in samples from their house cows for microbiological testing. The results would invariably be a much lower level of bacterial contamination for this raw milk than the processed milk leaving the factory. Sometimes we would have to drop the dilution rate by a factor of ten to get a decent count on an agar plate. With a healthy cow the milk in the udder is practically sterile, but milk a good media for the growth of any bacteria that may later contaminate it during milking and handling.. With a disease free cow and clean milking techniques, cow to consumer is the way to go not only for freshness but also for taste. With the advent of refrigerated on farm bulk milk tanks decades ago some following. After packaging there is the delivery/sales delay. Factories draw their milk from many farms and the milk from one farm is not necessarily as good as from another. Quality of supply is maintained by regular testing, penalties for not meeting standard and exclusion of substandard milk from processing. Being a living food milk is succeptable to degredation by bacteria introduced to it. Regardless of how careful a dairy factory handles, treats its milk there is always area for bacterial contamination. Pasteurising was origionally enforced to prevent the spread of TB and other diseases. Today better farming practises and legislation on cow health have eliminated the TB threat. Pasteurising kills the harmful bacteria but the thermoduric bacteria, those which can survive heat treatment remain and are responsible for the bacterial degredation of the milk. Post factory storage temperature plays a big part in the shelf life of milk. Maintainance of a low temperature from factory to glass will see a shelf life in excess of that on the carton/jug. As consumers we can play our part by transporting our refrigerated/frozen foodstuffs from supermarket to refrigerator/freezer via insulated boxes, eskys etc. Allowing temperature sensitive foods to warm up after purchase accellerates their spoilage. Pasteurisation and homogenisation take away the natural wholesome taste of milk. The more processing a dairy product is subjected to the shorter will be its shelf life. Selection of cow breed for volume yield has seen the widespread adoption of the Fresian breed. Although breeding has improved their milk it cannot rival the taste of milk from a Jersy or Gurnsey cow ( even though their milk is high in fat content). Friend and ex workmate has been running an organic dairy not far from here for for some years, he produces some great dairy foods which are in such demand that he can only supply the local market. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Monsanto Sues Small Dairy In Maine Over Growth Hormone Comment
- Original Message - From: doug foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where in Aus are you? It sounds like it could be NR of NSW? Greetings Doug, I'm on the Atherton Tablelands inland from Cairns Queensland. Its the location for Australia's only Tropical Dairying Area and home of the worlds longest milk run. Have also worked in Dairy factories across N.S.W. and in Canberra. First job was in the lab of a large dairy company in Hunter Valley, Newcastle N.S.W.. In those times milk was delivered to the factory in milk cans. Each farmers milk would be tipped into one side of a double sided weighing vat. Part of my job was to sample the milk for methylene blue quality testing (this was in the days before widespread microbiological testing and indeed anyone who was capable of such tests was held in godlike status). Each farmers milk would have a different fragrance depending upon its freshness, the mix of cows in the herd and what they were eating. Many times I succomed to temptation and sucked a little harder on the sampling pipette to get the taste of a good smelling batch. (for the internationals, we have an organic dairy near Kyogle who also sells milk from selected cows (A2 milk), supposed to be low in undesirable fats?.) This milk (the normal one, anyway) is Jersey milk, my children will not drink it as it tastes 'different'. To me it tastes like I remember milk Some years ago when I worked at an agricultural college a company was trialing a product that coated feed components and moved them unaltered through the initial phase of a cows digestive system. The aim was to produce milk with less saturated fats, not sure of the mechanism or outcome of the trials. Guess its what you are used to and expect of a product. Butter for instance always has a yellower colour in summer because of the better pasture, winter butter is harder to sell because the comsumer expects a nice yellow colour, (can remember my grandmother's homemade butter being very pale and a bit too salty but good), so the buttermakers send a lot of the butter they make off to cold store. Summer butter gets blended with winter butter to improve the colour and excess butter from summer gets shipped to cold store for use in winter. Another example is any product with a strawberry flavour.The colour the consumer expects is way in excess of what the proportion of natural fruit could provide. This is just an example of the hurdles organic produce face. Marketing has transfered our selection criteria from our noses and taste buds to our eyes. Fruit with skin blemishes does not necessarily taste inferior. Indeed it can have a better taste and nutritional content than a perfect example of a variety grown specifically for its presentation value, ability to be force ripened at the required time and its durability to travel. Tomatoes are a good example of this. Was given the task of making up a ten gallon batch of custard for a TV ad crew once. The normal custard was considered too pale and not thick enough for the filming. Both thickness and colour had to be dramatically increased for the desired effect until the end result was more like a batch of orange dyed cement mix. As yet in Aus, we do not have a lot of processing on raw veges (that I lnow of anyway..) We still get eyes sprouting on potatoes, etc. Atherton Tablelands is a potatoe growing area and we can buy bags of spuds straight from the farm, still covered with the rich red volcanic soil they grow in. Ironic part is that even though this soil is reputed to be some of the best farm soil in the country and will grow almost anything, every time we are cut off from southern distribution markets by flooding our local supermarkets run out of vegetables. BUT unfortunately we seem to have a govt going down the GM road - even tho the populace do not trust it. I wonder if the US powerbrokers are using pressure to make us go this way (So no competitor can be GM free, have a powerful market position) Ah well, conspiracy theory mode off regards Doug The ultimate insult from GM products would seem to me to be the reports of fines for farmers whose properties adjoin those with GM crops and find that some of those crops are sprouting in their fields. Do GM crops set true to seed or do they throw back like hybrids? Enouth of my waffling, its probably information everyone is familiar with anyway. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges refill kits at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5702 http://us.click.yahoo.com/YrYXfA/AyWGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To
Re: [biofuel] Monsanto Sues Small Dairy In Maine Over Growth Hormone Comment
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, What I'm referring to is pasteurized 2% organic (Oregon Tilth) vs pasteurized 2% non-organic, both from auto milking environments, transportation to packaging houses, storage, transportation to vendors and final shelving in the exact same cooling units. Yes, big difference in quality, natural justice would see the organic dairy sueing Monstanto for claiming that the chemical; milk was as good as the organic milk. Unfortunately natural justice is a poor cousin compared with industrial muscle. A change of subject heading would have been appropriate for my comments which were about the dairy industry in general. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine
- Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am still trying to separate glycerin and FFA's, but it does not work. Now I used ยธ liter of the bottom layer ( from the very bottom of the vessel ) and ยธ liter ( not ยธ ml. but ยธ liter ! ) sulphuric acid ( 98% ) and all that happens : no separation. snip Pieter, I think you mentioned earlier that the oil you are using is only used for one day. The acidity should be very low. Perhaps the FFA's aren't separating because there isn't much there. ( excuse me if I am thinking of the wrong feedstock). Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power i think it was the me 162 The ME-163 looks like what we are after. from http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Herman's%20Comet.htm (good picture) The Me-163 Komet. A rocket powered plane used to intercept raiding American B-17's and '24's. As the Komet was about 250 MPH faster than the target, and only flew for about 3 minutes, they proved to be very exciting (to the pilot), but relative ineffective in combat. The original aircraft used a highly volatile 2 part liquid propulsion rocket engine for power and had a little propeller on the front as a wind powered generator. The plane was basically a fuel bomb with wings. The Komet was the first rocket-powered fighter to be placed in active duty. It was a very beautiful, well-designed and airworthy craft with a small drawback; It was deadly! If that simply had referred to the enemy facing the Komet, it wouldn't be much of a drawback, but unfortunately the pilot and the ground crew were the ones who were in the greatest danger. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight3.htm A Hellmuth Walter Kiel Kommandogesellschaft HWK 109-509 bi-fueled rocket powered the first B-model Komets. Throttle positions of off, Idle, 1st, 2nd and 3rd stages thrust were controllable from 220 lb. to 3,307 lb. The engine dimensions: length-8 ft. 3.5 in.; height-2 ft. 11 in. Total weight was 813 lb. (fuels system 441 lb.; motor 366 lb., control system 7 lb.). The 163B was propelled by fuels coded T-Stoff and C-Stoff. C-Stoff was a mixture of 57% methyl alcohol, 30% hydrazine hydrate and 13% water. T-Stoff was 80% concentrated hydrogen peroxide, to which some additional stabilizers were added. The T-Stoff fuel tank system consisted of a main fuselage tank and two smaller tanks on each side of the pilot's seat in the cockpit (see cockpit photo). Total fuel capacity was 3,717 lb. of T-Stoff and 1,032 lb. of C-Stoff. Interesting reading at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ammonia as Fuel
- Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ammonia as Fuel How does one use NH3 as energy source ? I ask this, because in Holland we have big problems with NH3 polution coming out of huge animal houses with hundreds of thousends of pigs or chickens. If we could filter the NH3 out of the air and use it as a fuel, it would be great. Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:35 PM Subject: [biofuel] Ammonia as Fuel It isn't clear to me at what temperature it can become liquid. It seems to me that a big part of why I was advocating other fuels is that, in liquid form, they can be transported and used with greater energy density. I do think it's close to being easily made into a liquid, but that at room temperature it's gaseous? http://www.c-f-c.com/specgas_products/ammonia.htm http://www.slider.com/enc/2000/ammonia_Properties.htm There does seem some indication that it is toxic in some extent. This is not to preclude your suggestion, just to examine the pros and cons a little. Wasn't ammonia used as a refrigerant and then replaced with CFC's? Note that several people appear to be cc'ing to other groups in response to my own cc's. When I initiate this, I do it because my experience has been that I get a wider range of more-enlightening response, even if there are some significant downsides to this, such as disjointed conversations. If you wish for your posts to appear in the other groups, I think the way yahoo works, you'd just have to join them, otherwise the cc: is wasted. If it is not that important, then fine. I moderate the evworld.com group and the energyproduction one that I just maintain for myself it seems. But I am not stumping for membership, just going over something that seems to now pertain to several people. I did send out invites for the evworld.com group because it seemed a way to alert some that their posts were not being seen on that group, in case they weren't fully aware. MM On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:11:24 EDT, you wrote: You're welcome!! Now, about liquifiable fuels-- You didn't mention one of my favorites, ammonia, NH3. Its energy density is a little lower than methanol, but notice that it contains no carbon and can be catalytically reduced to hydrogen and nitrogen. I am not aware of environmental problems with this substance. It is currently used at very high tonnages for fertilizer without any reported problems. Ernie Rogers Thanks for the feedback Ernie. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] == THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE RENEWABLE ENERGY LIST. -- . Please feel free to send your input to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . To view previous messages from the list, subscribe to a daily digest of the list, or stop receiving the list by e-mail (and read it on the Web), go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/renewable-energy . . This e-mail discussion list is managed by the American Wind Energy Association: http://www.awea.org -- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo!
Re: [biofuel] Ammonia as Fuel
Ooops sorry about the repeat. - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] How does one use NH3 as energy source ? I ask this, because in Holland we have big problems with NH3 polution coming out of huge animal houses with hundreds of thousends of pigs or chickens. If we could filter the NH3 out of the air and use it as a fuel, it would be great. Pieter Koole Getting the ammonia out of air is no problem, bubble the air through water. Ammonia is very soluble in water (fountain experiment used in schools). Don't know how you would derive inergy from it, probably best converted to fertiliser and used or exported. Regards Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] McDonald's Tries To Phase Out Use of Antibiotics In Meat
Something to consider regarding medication of animals. If you intend to add some horse manuar to a worm farm make sure that the manuar is aged. Have been advised that if the horses have recently been wormed you can kill off some or all of your worms in the farm. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Freezing (was Ammonia)
An interesting high school chemistry demonstration is the dry mixing of Ammonium thyocyanate and Barium hydroxide powders in a flat bottomed flash. They are stirred together and form a slurry. The flask is placed on a dampened block of wood. The reaction between the two chemicals is endothermic. The mixture absorbs heat from the moisture on the wooden block. Flask and block are bonded together by the ice formed and can be lifted as one unit. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pilot's seat? in a German rocket? On Saturday, Jun 21, 2003, at 07:02 US/Eastern, gobie wrote: Yes we could call it plenty of other things. Must have been one hell of a ride especially under maximum thrust with near empty tanks. All this with fabric covered wings. In view of the unusual performance and the potential to self destruct good pilots were hard to find especially when they were needed for conventional aircraft. Some interesting reading on the performance of the aircraft, the training of the pilots and the techniques the pilots used to get around its vulnarabilities, especially when it glided back to base. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm Wonder has anyone tried deriving oxygen from H2O2 to supercharge an ICE? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Peugeot takes it's diesel racing on biofuel
Thankyou David and Kirsten Paul, I recently visited a very large diester plant in Northern France. Their feedstock is 100% French grown rapeseed oil, processing flowchart is bog standard. Plant is alongside an oil extraction industry, whose output is 40% to food trade and 60% to diester. Fuel is shipped (by water transport) to 3 oil refineries for blending with mineral diesel prior to distribution. Watch this space for news of a UK biodiesel competition sports car. David T. From a commercial manufacturing perspective, SAIPOL, near Rouen, has one of the largest diester manufacturing sites in the world. They are a large producer of BD in France along with ROBBE and COGNIS. France produced 365,000 tonnes of BD in 2002 and expect to increase by 70,000 tonnes in 2003. KPS - David, I like the name Diester. Aside from purchasing the diester for its diester blend I wonder what connection/investment Total have in the plants? Would be interesting to see what industry model has developed. The competition sports car sounds interesting but the present pug is a beauty, (what me biased?) See that Peugeot and Jaguar have signed an agreement to design and build a V6 diesel about 2.7 L but to appear in many forms. Hopefully it should be better than the Peugeot/Renault/Volvo V6 petrol of the seventies. Kirsten, Interesting, are these companies independent of Total? We hear a bit about the production and use in Germany but not too much about France. Will search around to see if I can find production figures for Germany. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Peugeot/Citroen/Jaguar/Ford V6 diesel.
Re: [biofuel] Sparkling bio-diesel
- Original Message - From: mark schofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] As far as I understand, and I will have it out with them shortly, I have to test it for certification and then they also test periodically when ever they want. Further, they can also turn up on site at the drop of a hat and demand and take up to 6 years of production data, figures etc. Regards Mark Pleasant little blighters, hope it doesn't come to that over here. regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/hist1939.html 1940 German scientist Helmuth Walter demonstrated a prototype for the first true submarine, a boat that in theory could operate submerged for an indefinite period, unlimited by battery capacity or the need for atmospheric oxygen. V.80 gained its power from the decomposition of highly concentrated (95 percent) hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, known as Perhydrol. In essence, when the chemical breaks down, it releases superheated steam to drive a turbine along with oxygen to support conventional combustion for additional power or for crew respiration. V.80's designer optimized its hull shape for submerged operations, and the boat indeed demonstrated exceptional speed -- 28 knots submerged. It also demonstrated exceptionally high fuel consumption, 25 times that of a diesel engine, at exceptional cost. According to one source, one six-and-a-half-hour trial run consumed $200,000 worth of Perhydrol. The design showed great promise, but Hitler thought his war was won, so plans for production of a series of Walter boats were put on hold. Research continued, however, and perhaps eight, in several variations between 250 and 300 tons, were put into service in 1943-44. Not a nice chemical to be trapped in a big pipe with, but then notice that an early design of American nuclear sub used an alloy of sodium and potassium metals to transfere the heat from the reactor to the boilers. I wonder if anyone who designed these things was game enough to travel in them. Conventional deisel generator and battery subs had their problems too. Saltwater in contact with high current producing chlorine gas. Bad enough to be in a damaged leaking sub but chlorine as well. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: how much do you know
- Original Message - From: Forbes Bagatelle-Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the speeds we are discussing, wind resistance accounts for most of the energy consumed. Other sources of energy consumption are rolling resistance of the tires, which remains constant relative to velocity (but not vehicle mass), and inefficiencies in the drivetrain and engine. Drivetrain inefficiencies remain relatively constant. Engine efficiencies, on the other hand, vary greatly largely as a function of actual torque at a given RPM and peak torque at that RPM. Efficiency tends to increase as actual torque approach peak torque. Now here is one from the weird ideas department. What if we could reduce the wind resistance by mechanical means. Wind resistance increasing vastly as speed increases, mechanical energy requirements increasing less. Would need something like a moving skin on the vehicle same speed as the air. Its alright folks, very early in the morning here, gpoing to get some sleep , will be back to normal in a few hours. Yawns, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ammonia as Fuel
Ammonia (gaseous) mixed with air in the right ratio forms an explosive mixture. But then that can be said for a lot of fuels with low vapour points. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Brant, apparently they did use the oxygen from the peroxide to power the diesel generators. The V.80 was built in a figure eight cross-section configuration with the base section intended to hold the peroxide. When the idea didn't work out to be practical; they filled the bottom section up with additional batteries. Whilst not a fan of warefare, I admire the technological advances conflict brings even if they are in a less than social direction. The site makes for very interesting reading I especially liked the 1935 to 1945 section. Interesting little snippets like the British training seagulls to sit on periscopes to make the submerged sub easier to spot. The Japanese I Boat that fired a cluster of six torpedos at a ship in a convoy. Three hit the target sinking it, the other three ran for a further 12 Km, encountered another convoy, damaging two more ships and the sixth torpedo kept going. Contrast this to the early war scenario where torpedos were unreliable. On sub fired off its its 24 torpedos during its tour of duty, plenty of hits but only one exploded. However it did sink one ship when the unexploded torpedo punctured the rusty hull.. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: jgnat1488 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was used as the reactant in the nazi rocket plane? I know that one of the fuels were h2o2 and when the other liquid was in contact with it, it combusted for more thrust. As i recall the plane was a shoort range (12 min. fly time) interceptor placed near factories and used drop dollies for take off gear. It even had a small prop. on the front that was used for power generation to run the radio and such. Jason Gnatowsky Jason couldn't find any mention of the rocket planebut http://www.constable.ca/v2.htm details the use of H2O2 in the V2. Technical Details The V2 was an unmanned, guided, ballistic missile. It was guided by an advanced gyroscopic system that sent signals to aerodynamic steering tabs on the fins. It was generally inaccurate due to errors in aligning the rocket with it's target, premature shut-off of the motor and inconsistencies in electric current in the guidance system. It was propelled by an alcohol (a mixture of 75% ethyl alcohol and water), and liquid oxygen fuel. The two liquids were delivered to the thrust chamber by two rotary pumps, driven by a steam turbine. The steam turbine operated at 5,000 rpm on two auxiliary fuels, namely hydroperoxide (100 %) and calcium permanganate. This system generated about 55,000 lbs (27,000 to 30,000 Newton) of thrust. The motor typically burned for 60 seconds, pushing the rocket to around 4,400 ft/second. It rose to an altitude of 52 miles and had a range of 200 - 225 miles. regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Peugeot takes it's diesel racing on biofuel
From: Marc Bonanni [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:23:40 -0500 (EST) Did you know that Peugeot will use one of the two RC prototypes(born in 2002 Geneva Motorshow)in REAL race on circuit It will use the same HDI engine than the red one(2.2l, particles filter, 175bhp)but using diester oil(more ecological than diesel), and 25 examples will be built to race in diffrent circuits in France and Belgium... See the official photographes, it's a really nice sport car http://ffsa.turbo.m6.fr/images/030321_nogaro//p031492.jpg http://ffsa.turbo.m6.fr/images/030321_nogaro//p031493.jpg Thanks! Marc Bonanni Certainly a nice looking car. Total advertising on car and in pits. Wonder if Total are producing the diester . Not sure where the 2% BD used in French diesel comes from. Any ideas anybody? Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Some questions and perhaps an idea about BD
- Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:31 AM Pieter, looks like you didn't get much response to your questions. A lot of what you are asking about can be found at Journeytoforever.org, through the archives of this list, at the Mauri discussion list and many other sites around the net. Can anyone explain me, why the excess methanol at the end of the BD process not just floats on top of the BD , regarding the specific gravity ? Methanol is miscible with both biodiesel and glycerine, so it stays in solution. Separation is usually by distillation. Another question or may be even a solution : When we make methyl esters we can distill the excess (m)ethanol out of this ? Am I right ? When we make our own ethanol, the problem is to get it 99% pure. How, if we would mix the ethanol / water mixture with ethyl ester, so that the ethanol will solve in the ester and the water falls down to the bottom. After that, we could distill the water out of the ester. Is this a very stupid thought ? As you maybe allready understood, I am not a chemist. Not sure on this one, (m)ethanol are very soluble in water and perhaps less soluble in ester. This is born out by the (m)ethanol being removed from the ester by water washing, the volume of water involved here is much greater though. Is n't it possible to separate the water and ethanol with some kind of electrolyse ? Electrolysis works on ionic solutions, not aware of any such technique that would separate water and ethanol. How come that the pH of the ethanol I use now ( 98% pure, rest is methanol ) is just below 7 ? I thought alcohol is a basic fluid because of the OH ( r COOH ) ? Electronic pH measurements of non ionic liquids are unreliable, pH meters are only accurate for ionised liquids, ethanol is an organic liquid with very little ionisation. pH can be measured chemically using indicators, Universal indicator (a mixture of various indicators) is a handy indicator to guage the progress of washing etc. Results rely on the interpretation of the colour it produces and are only accurate to about one half of a pH unit. If I would make a still in which I could reach 290ยก C to destilate the glycerin out of the bottom layer from the BD process, would that be dangerous ? Would it deliver pure glycerine as one of the fractions ? Danger would be relative to construction,siteing etc, can be done but not economical unless you have a cheap source of heat for that 290 deg C and a market for the glycerine. Sorry for the mistakes in the language. My parents never tought me to speak or write in English. I had to learn that later, like learning to make BD and somehow it works. I' have driven just over 100.000 km now without ever having any problems. Thats a good mileage on BD. Washed or unwashed BD? What type of vehicle? Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sparkling bio-diesel
- Original Message - From: mark schofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] In England, dispite the Government crying out for cleaner fuels etc, we still have to pay road duty at the rate of 25.8p per L (43.3c USD per L) and before we are allowed to pay the duty ie use the fuel the Customs Excise have to make sure its manufactured to the correct standard etc. Minimum requirements include 96.5% Methyl Ester content, 0.005% sulphur, SG around 0.835 maximum etc. These are rough figures off the top of my head. And the beat goes on. Regards Mark Mark is the user required to have the fuel analysed or do Customs Excise do the analysis? Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Reusing washing water
- Original Message - From: appalenergy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) works. Even plain sodium chloride (table salt) will work to some degree. Warning! Overkill on salt will produce an even worse problem, as saline effluent can yield a dead zone just as readily as soap accumulation. Worse still when reusing the wash water after treatment and filtering, residual MgSO4, NaCl or CaCl2 in the wash water will deposite the soap scum within the BD Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Self-drive cars ahead
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] BBC NEWS | Technology | Self-drive cars ahead 7 June, 2003, 07:46 GMT 08:46 UK Self-drive cars ahead snip I don't mean that we shouldn't have and use cars, just that they should be driven by computers and not humans, electronically tethered to cars in front and behind, he said. And they call that driving?, might as well take the bus. RegardsPaul Gobert. Hi Paul Might as well, yes. Or the train. If there is a bus or a train, but most likely there isn't, and there should be... My sympathies, I feel much the same, but on the other hand, how many drivers - people with a licence to propel a car - know what driving is? Not too many, eh? It's a minority skill, and a real charge for those few who have it, but if it has to be sacrificed in order to stop the slaughter caused by all those who don't have it, nor road sense either, well, so be it, I wouldn't argue. Just as long as it really did stop it, and that without the all-too-usual unexpected side-effects that turn out to be worse than the original problem. Best Keith Yet another reason why I deserted the cities 30 years ago, choice of lifestyle over material wealth. . Old habits die hard, double declutching and heel and toeing etc. People often ask me how come my engine was being reved up whilst I have my brake lights on, or tell me that my brake lights weren't working when I was using gears and engine braking to come to a leasurly stop.Replaced the Toyota's clutch at 550,000 km and 600,000 km sees it still on its second set of brake linings.The engine braking of a manual diesel makes for smooth driving. Not so many drivers as road users over here. Tourists from heavily populated areas seem to be the worst. If they haven't seen another car for a minute or two they think it is ok to stop their hire car in the middle of the road around a blind corner to sightsee. By the way my fleet of Pugs has grown, was confined to one with last wife, now have 4 504s (including a diesel) and a 505 in the yard, plus a new lady who doesn't mind them, now that is happiness.If only I could find somewhere to park the Toyota and for my lady to park her car. By the way anyone who enjoys movies where the little guy triumphs over the big banks would enjoy the movie The Bank Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Self-drive cars ahead
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] BBC NEWS | Technology | Self-drive cars ahead 7 June, 2003, 07:46 GMT 08:46 UK Self-drive cars ahead snip I don't mean that we shouldn't have and use cars, just that they should be driven by computers and not humans, electronically tethered to cars in front and behind, he said. And they call that driving?, might as well take the bus. RegardsPaul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Veg-oil lubricant/Complex mixing of fuels
- Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many years ago race cars ran on castor bean oil. I think they promptly drained them after the race however. I was told the high heat caused the oil to gel once it cooled. Was the best lubricant around at the time though. Kirk Castrol R or Mobil P, both castor based oils are still the prefered lubricants in the worm/wheel diffs as fitted to Peugeot 203,403,404. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Drying methods
How about quick lime, cheaper than Lithium salts, and will neutralise the FFA at the same time as it grabs the water. regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two-stage Process - jelly?
- Original Message - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check that you are not accidentally evaporating off too much of your methanol. What kind of container are you using on that hot plate? If it is an Ehrlenmeyer flask you've got a better chance of retaining all the methanol than if you are using a beaker, for instance. If you put a lid over the container you're better off still. mark A glass funnel placed in the neck of the Ehrlenmeyer flask acts as a nice condensor. If you want to get fance the neck of the funnel can be blocked at its tip and the funnel filled with crushed ice, but that should not be necessary.. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Two-stage Process - jelly?
- Original Message - From: mark schofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi So after playing with the single stage for a while, I have produced a good clear final product. I have bought a hot plate magnetic stirrer for $360 USD that has helped for titrations etc. I have played with the two stage process and the final product has turned to jelly. I have followed the 2-stage instructions exactly - timer, burettes, +/- 1mg weighing scale, 97% H2SO4, hot plate stirrer with closed loop temperature control and digit speed and temp output. The chemicals are all analytical grade and the oil requires only 0.1cc of 0.1M NaOH solution to pH 8.5. I heat 1000cc of oil up to 35'C. I add 80cc of 99.5% Methanol and stir for 5 minutes. I then add 1cc of 97% H2SO4 and stir for 1 hour. I then cut the heat and stir for a further hour. The mixture does not separate but is left for minimum 8hrs usually 12. I re-heat the still liquid mixture to 55'C and add 3.5g NaOH and 120cc Methanol. I stir for 1 hr and leave to settle. The final product doesn't settle and congeals over time. Keith - I am lost. Some where along the line soap is formed. I will re-run the experiment and comment tomorrow. On a larger scale - could a 1um filter / coalescer unit be used to pre-process heated oil? Regards Mark Hello Mark, With oil of 0.1ml 0.1M (0.4%) NaOH titration use of the two stage acid base method is not waranted. The aim of the acid stage is to esterify any FFA present. From your titration we can see that the oil has very little FFA in it to start with. It would be a better candidate for single base method. Very little would be happening in the acid stage, there is almost no FFA to esterify and acid catalysed transesterification is very slow. In this case all that is happening is that you are acidifying (with sulphuric acid) the oil/methanol mix prior to performing a base catalysed transesterification and not taking that acidity into account when choosing the ammount of NaOH to use. When you rerun the experiment try using a larger quatity of NaOH in the second stage. If you don't drain off the small ammount of acid/aqueous layer after the first stage some of the NaOH will be consumed neutralising it. Also current thinking is that more than 3.5g/l gives a better conversion. Both good reasons for using more than 3.5g/l in the second stage. Would suggest using this oil for single base method and finding some oil higher in FFA to trial the acid/base method. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( i see biodiesel in the same light as photography, learn by the rules and then break them.) Problem is, in photography an entire spectrum of end results can be desired and achieved by bending or breaking rules. In manufacturing biodiesel there is only one shade of gray that is desired. Bending or breaking the rules moves the perpetrator further and further away from the desired result. Agreeing to disagree doesn't change the end result of bending or breaking the rules either. Todd Swearingen Valid points Todd. Have found that I have learned a lot from the mistakes I have made by bending the rules and the investigation of the results. Bit of a stubborn old bugger here learn by experience. regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, that's one way. As I said, various people adapt it to their requirements and preferences, and it seems to adapt well. The best way though, according to much feedback, our own findings and Aleks's continuing work, is as-is, just the way it's presented: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process Proceed just as instructed, start adapting only if you have problems. Greetings Keith The ammount of NaOH Alex suggests to add in the second stage is the ammount required for transesterification of a neutral feedstock. If the first stage product has any residual acidity at all it will neutralise some of the NaOH, not enough NaOH will be left for all the oil/fat to be transesterified. Paul, I am a bit dubious of your advice here because I think you use your concentrated aqueous solution of methoxide, and IMO that adds an unnecessary variable, especially with the acid-base process, where you'll be adding water to a process that's already water-sensitive. Once the first stage has been completed we are left with a mixturte of ester and oil.(plus residual acid). I have had no problems using Conc Aqueous methoxide to process either this mix or WVO/F This has to be superior: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth And it could hardly be easier, or safer. I revisited the site Keith. Whilst Methoxide the easy way is all it claims to be, in comparison with the Conc Aqueous NaOH method it falls short in speed, convenience and adaptability. Using Conc Aqueous NaOH I can prepare any quantity of methoxide of the desired composition in a minute or two, handy if your batches of oil/fat turn out to be a bit higher in acid than anticipated or you decide to process more or less feedstock. Its one of those proceedures that isn't supposed to work in theory but works well in practise. Probably waiting for theory to catch up with it. Once over the doubt hurdle and trying the method most people like it. I can't see much difference on the safety issue either. The Conc Aqueous NaOH method involves less handling of either methanol or NaOH, and certainly no shaking of a potentially leaky containor. Weighing of the NaOH is required only once to make the stock solution of conc NaOH, so carbonate and moisture contamination of the NaOH is reduced (both these contaminations could reduce the ammount of pure NaOH in subsequent weighings.) Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice
- Original Message - From: Andreas W Ohnsorge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tomas, I had a similar problem with WVO from a restaurant when I tried the foolproof recipe allthough it worked fine with virgin oil. I had some sort of success using the two stage acid based version with a recipe found in the following website (but it requires titrating AND determination of peroxide number): http://mars.wiz.uni-kassel.de/agt/biodiesel/rezept.html Greetings Andreas, The site you mentioned gives details for the calculation of methoxide compositions for the base/base two stage method, not the acid/base two stage method. Their calculator is interesting. I'm curious as to why they place so much emphasis on peroxide number instead of say the saturation of the oil/fat molecules. Definition of Peroxide Number: The extent of oxidation that has taken place in a sample pf lipid or lipid fat can be expressed in terms of peroxide value. Haven't been able to find much about the expected levels of stored WVO/F. For fresh oils such as Hemp and Emu figures of 5meq/kg were quoted. Ran a few figures through the calculator, the methanol levels stay the same for all FFA and peroxide levels, its the KOH levels in the two stages that change A peroxide number of 10 made very little difference to the result Would be interesting to find out what figures could be expected for WVO/F stored for some time. One of the links that turned up dealt with preventing oxideation of oils, looks like rosemary comes up tops here. http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4124/NSOres.html Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice
- Original Message - From: Johnsson Tomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all We have been testing Alecs Fool Proof process and find it to work after several long and time consuming testings (adding lye/methanol several times and removing the glyrein). Greetings Johnsson, I have found with the acid/base method that it is very important to drain off the acid/aqueous phase from the bottom of the mix after the acid stage. Any remaining sulphuric acid neutralises part of the NaOH added in the base stage. The oil/ester mix should then be titrated to determine the ammount of NaOH required to neutralise any acidity resulting from residual Sulphuric acid and any unreacted FFA. As Keith has already suggested the use of phenolphthalein to determine neutrality is much more accurate than either ph paper or universal indicator paper. When determining the acidity after the first stage a stronger solution of NaOH may be required. A 10% solution of NaOH may be required to get a reasonable titration, multiply the result by ten to get the grams per litre required. For the second stage use the ammount of NaOH indicated by the titration plus the ammount for catalysation (usually 3.5 to 4.5g/l). Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
