[Biofuel] Seperating glycerine
Message: 2Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:26:52 +0100From: Bioclaire Nederland [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [Biofuel] seperating Glycerine mistake ! To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Pieter for the explanationit explains allot. I must get myself a chemistry book. If I used say two diffrent batches of glycerine with diffrent amounts of Naoh what would you do in that case or if you didnt know the exact amount of NaohIs there an indicator I could use. Thank you, John I wrote :In grams :((3x1)+16+64) + (3x40) -- ((3x23)+16+64) + (3x18) - 203 = 203So the reaction is equal now.That means you need one mole of H3PO4 + 3 moles of NaOH to react completely and split your residue. As you will understand now, I hope, you need 98 grams of H3PO4 for every 40 grams of NaOH you used.This should be : 98 grams of H3PO4 (is one mole) for 3 moles of NaOH which is 120 grams. Not 40 grams40 grams is 1 mole. I hope I can give you an explaination in english, because I am from Holland :You start with the amount of NaOH you used to make your batch of BD.For example 5 kg for 800 liters of BD.So you use 5 kg NaOH, which you will all find back in the bottom layer residue. 1 mole of NaOH weighs 23 + 16 + 1 makes 40 grams.23 + 16 + 1 are the mole weights of the elements. You can find them in te periodic system of elements in every schoolbook of chemistry.Now you mix with phosphoric acid, but what percentage ? Phosphoric acid is H3PO4, which has a mole weight of (3x1) + 31 + (4x16) =98 gramsWhat you should try to reach is a complete reaction between the acid and the NaOHThe reaction would be : H3PO4 +NaOH -- Na3PO4 + H20 Now make it equal, so it gets to :H3PO4 + 3NaOH -- Na3PO4 + 3H2OIn grams :((3x1)+16+64) + (3x40) -- ((3x23)+16+64) + (3x18) - 203 = 203So the reaction is equal now.That means you need one mole of H3PO4 + 3 moles of NaOH to react completely and split your residue. As you will understand now, I hope, you need 98 grams of H3PO4 for every 40 grams of NaOH you used.Of course if you have a phosphoric acid of let's say 75%, it means that if you take 1 kilo of that, you have 750 grams of phosphoric acid. All together, if you don't take enough acid, you won't split your residue completely, but if you take too much acid, you will find the surplus somewhere in the FFA's , or maybe on the bottom, or maybe solved in either of them, or maybe. I hope I helped you with this.Greetings,Pieter - Original Message - From: john owens To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:13 PM Subject: [Biofuel] seperating Glycerine Hi, I did couple of tests on glycerin separation with the titration method on JTF with different results. Test One; 250ml byproduct 10ml phosphoric shacked vigorously There was separation with 3 layers about 60/30/10 within about 15 minutes. FFa Glycerin and fluffy white sodium phosphate Test two; 250ml byproduct 10ml phosphoric shaked vigorously I then added 5ml phosphoric shaked vigorously I added more phosphoric to see what would happen. there was separation with In about one minute with two layers about 50/50 with creamy brown stuff on the bottom. FFa on top I then added more phosphoric until I got separation of a reddish colour onbottom. this has being sitting for 4 hours or so. In the jar there is about (40/60 (ffa/glycerin) with a very fine white layer on the bottom. I made a mistake with the last mail. There is a greater amount of glycerin in test two and less ffa Could any one explain to me what is happening ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] seperating Glycerine
Hi,I did couple of tests on glycerin separation with the titration methodon JTF with different results.Test One;250ml byproduct10ml phosphoricshacked vigorouslyThere was separation with 3 layers about 60/30/10 within about 15 minutes. FFa Glycerin and fluffy white sodium phosphateTest two;250ml byproduct10ml phosphoricshaked vigorouslyI then added 5ml phosphoricshaked vigorouslyI added more phosphoric to see what would happen. there was separation with In about one minute with two layers about 50/50with creamy brown stuff on the bottom. FFa on topI then added more phosphoric until I got separation of a reddish colour onbottom. this has being sitting for 4 hours or so. In the jar there is about(40/60 (ffa/glycerin) with a very fine white layer on the bottom. I made a mistake with the last mail.There is a greater amount of glycerin in test two and less ffaCould any one explain to me what is happening ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Seperating glycerine
Hi, I didcouple of tests onglycerin separationwith the titration method onJTFwith different results. Test One; 250ml byproduct 10ml phosphoric shacked vigorously There was separation with 3 layers about 60/30/10 within about 15 minutes. FFa Glycerin and fluffy white sodium phosphate Test two; 250ml byproduct 10ml phosphoric shaked vigorously I then added 5ml phosphoric shaked vigorously I added more phosphoricto see what would happen. there was separation with In about one minute withtwo layers about 50/50 with creamy brown stuff on the bottom. FFa on top I then added more phosphoric untilI got separation of a reddish colour on bottom. this has being sitting for 4 hours or so. In the jar there is about 60/40 (ffa/glycerin) with a very fine white layer on the bottom. There is a greater amount of glycerin in test two and less ffa Could any one explain to me what is happening? John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel Ireland
Hi Dermot, I am paying 142 euro for a 200 liter drum. duty is 34 or 35c not exactly sure which. caustic is 16 per 25kg. I added water andelectricity I may have been off with 90c. But thecostis still pritty high.Im not getting free oil andI think the oil is going to go up with the demand from other european countries. Probably with in the next year or so. but lets hope it dosent!! Diesel can be bought for between 80c and 90c a liter at large volumes. I will defenatly support the campaign any wayI can. Maybe I could hand out post cards or something? John Hi John,What are you paying for your raw materials? When I was making biodieselin Ireland two years ago methanol was ?114 per 200 litres.This worked out at roughly 11c per litre of biodiesel produced. The duty payable per litre was 33c. I forget exactly what I paid for the sodiumhydroxide but it was fairly small.If you get your waste oil for free, which I did, then your costsincluding heating, should be roughly 50c per litre. Given that it is now ?1.08 per litre for dino diesel at the pumps thatleaves it a very economical proposition.If you want to do something about the duty payable on biodiesel thenrespond to this:*The Green Party has launched its Drop the Duty Postcard Campaign. Party Leader Trevor Sargent TD and Deputy Leader Cllr. Mary White are urgingMinister Cowen to drop the excise duty levied on the biofuel industry inthe forthcoming Budget. **Postcards for our campaign are now available in the Green Party office. If you require some of the postcards to be sent to you please let usknow asap. They can also be collected from the office during working hours.**Please support this campaign.RegardsDermot *john owens wrote: Hi Keith, Do you by any chance know any thing about the bio diesel situation in Ireland. I want to make bio diesel but the government seam to be against it and want to charge a duty on it the same as mineral oil diesel. I worked out some of the costs and it all ads up to about 90c per liter with duty added. This is just for raw materials, I haven't taken into account capital costs, repair costs or %loss and I'm sure there would be other hidden costs and Licences etc etc. I am now afraid to pursue this any further because I am unsure of what way the government are going with it. Any advice. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel Ireland
Hi Keith, Do you by any chance know any thing about the bio diesel situation in Ireland. I want to make bio diesel but the government seam to be against it andwantto charge aduty on it the same as mineral oil diesel. I worked out some of the costs and it all ads up to about 90c per liter with duty added. This is just for raw materials, I haven't taken into accountcapital costs, repair costs or %loss and I'm sure there would be other hidden costs and Licences etc etc. I am now afraid topursue this any further because I am unsure of what way the government are going with it. Any advice. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The bad news about Biodiesel
Thanks for the link frantz. Yes John as you have said there is not a company that specified on biodieselproduction from algea. I heard that large farms must be needed to productyeald. May be its not true.. but i could not find a good internet address about this production style. Here is a websiteI found; http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/biodiesel.html On 11/24/05, john owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I would like to know is why these big biodiesel companys in europe that are sabose to be ahead in the biodiesel industry haven't started using algae to produce biodiesel. This is taken from wikipedia biodiesel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel *The production of algae to harvest oil for biodiesel has not been undertaken on a commercial scale, but working feasibility studies have been conducted to arrive at the above yield estimate. In addition to a high yield, this solution does not compete with agriculture for food, requiring neither farmland nor fresh water. * ** john ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The bad news about Biodiesel
What I would like to know is why these big biodiesel companys in europe that are sabose to be ahead inthe biodiesel industryhaven't started using algae to produce biodiesel. This is taken from wikipedia biodiesel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel The production of algae to harvest oil for biodiesel has not been undertaken on a commercial scale, but working feasibility studies have been conducted to arrive at the above yield estimate. In addition to a high yield, this solution does not compete with agriculture for food, requiring neither farmland nor fresh water. john ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
I dono if this is realy related to truckers using hydrogen but this website http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/claims to increase milage on cars by 50% they will also instal units and if with the right adjusmentsthey cant give a 50% increase in milage they will give you the unit free. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Rain water for washing biodiesel
Hi, I would like to use rain water to wash my biodiesel. We get alot rain in Ireland. I was thinking that I should run it through a 5 micron filter or less befor using it. Any thoughts about this, how clean should it be etc? John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Reactor Coating
I was reading through the mail archives for info on coatings for my reactor and seen some of your posts about por-15. I used the gray rust preventive coating.After a few minutes intomixing the chemicals into theWVOthe paint started to peal. I Prepared the inside by cleaning with paint thinners, then sanded it and cleaned it again. Then I sprayed it with two coats. Should I have used an under coat and a top coat or what? I really could use the help with this because Icant a ford to be wasting this stuff especially when I'm paying 50 euro for a pint of it. What sort of preparation did you do before applying the por-15? John Owens ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] processor design
Would there be any one with experience building processors willing to look at a CADdrawing ofmy processorand help meimprove it? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] glop
Ran my processor for the first time today and made about 150 liters of puer glop soap I think that is what it is any way. What should I do with this mess. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] glop
I just sorted out the soap it seams I was adding the methodoxide to fast to the top of the reactor andI thinkit wasn't mixing properly. I turned on the pump and started mixing it again without method oxide looks to be mixing ok now. I have about5 liters of methox left should I remix it. Another problem I have noticed is thePOR 15 I used is starting to bubble on theinside ofthe reactor. Looks like I am going to have to repaint it. HaveIused the wrong type. Any help would be very much appreciated.. john ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Oil Pre Heater
Hi, What BTU rating wouldbe bestfor heating 150 liters of oil? I'm using a small gas heater at the moment it is very slow. I want to use a kerosene heaterrun on bio diesel. any suggestions for one? Thankin you, John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] hydrogen
Has anyone used hydrogen generators in there cars. They are sabose to reduce Emissions Including Nox. john ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] OFM
Keith Ive made a few test batches. I havent made a big batch yetwaiting for wvo and meohto come fromsuppliers. I know it will take along time to design an ofm reactor properlythats why i want to get started right awayand find out if it can be done. john ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] OFM
Andrew, Keith Thanks for the reply. would u thinkit possible to use acid base method with OFM . I was thinking using two stage ofm first acid second base. I will use centrifuge for seperation. running at 1000 l/hr. Any one know any usefull sites. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] OFM Tube
hi I just finished designing and buildinga batch processor based onthejourney to forever 90 ltr processor I now want to design an ofm flow tube. Is there any other sites other than cambridge That would be usefull. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] washing method
would it be possible to add water to theoutlet pipe of biodiesel reactorwhiletransferring it tothe wash tank and then just letting it settle.something likethe same way coke syrupand soda wateris mixed in a restaurant or MC Donall's. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] cone bottom processor
Hi, I am looking for some help making a biodiesel processor. I am trying to make my own processor out of two45 gallon drums (whichI thinkis55 American gallons) With cone bottoms. One for mixing and settling and the other for washing.I have one cone just about bent into shape which took abit of work (3 hours beating and bending it)andone drum ready for it.Dose any one know any tricksfor making the cone to make it easier and faster. What is the best method for mixingsettling and washing? For mixingIam thinking of using a pump (1 2000 lts per hour) whichI will also use for transferring liquids to other tanks,for settlingwould I be right to keep it at 100 deg F for an hour. Then stir wash with a pump (should I use a different pump)3 cycles 1hour, 1hour, 12 hours. Then dry. Any help would be much appreciated, John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel processore
I am looking for a biodiesel processor to produce up to two million liters a year. Ive been to the Engera site there largest p4000 processor looks good but is there a cheaper skid mounted processor Available. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] emissions
here's a tought What will happen if the majority of the waste vegtable oil in the world is being used for biodiesel which isnt curently being burned and is absorbing some of the co2 being produced by mineral diesel and production and mineral oil consumption growes. Will this not cause an increase in co2 in atmospher! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
