Re: [Biofuel] Foods subject to Chemical Run-off Absorption
I like the idea of adding to the 'truth-in-labelling' food labels. Vermont is currently being sued by Monsanto because the state has the audacity to try to protect and inform its residents about what is in the food they are buying. Maybe if producers were required to put the amount of poisons, toxins and carcinogens - especially cumulative elements and compounds - contained in their food products on the label, that would be of value to consumers. http://www.mail-archive.com/sustainablelorgbiofuel%40lists.sustainablelists.org/msg79912.html Any Vermonters want to encourage their state government to up the ante on the food labelling legislation? ALEC has demonstrated that bad legislation can be spread from state to state; why not some good legislation (as has been done with some vehicle emissions / fuel economy regs from California)? Darryl On 22/11/2014 7:58 PM, Frank wrote: Hi, lately we have been hearing about Arsenic in apple juice rice and Consumer Reports findings. This seems 2b a topic that should have Much more Media/PSA coverage, but seems kept hushed. Isn't this a matter of Public Safety? Dr. Oz has brought these 2 to light, but what about Potatoes, Peanuts, Carrots other root/underground vegetables/food stuffs? Shouldn't this be on the label as per recommended weekly servings or milligrams/serving? Thx ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] Foods subject to Chemical Run-off Absorption
Hi, lately we have been hearing about Arsenic in apple juice rice and Consumer Reports findings. This seems 2b a topic that should have Much more Media/PSA coverage, but seems kept hushed. Isn't this a matter of Public Safety? Dr. Oz has brought these 2 to light, but what about Potatoes, Peanuts, Carrots other root/underground vegetables/food stuffs? Shouldn't this be on the label as per recommended weekly servings or milligrams/serving? Thx ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] (no subject)
please unsubscribe this ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Please take me off the list. -- Tim Arthurs RRCA South Carolina State Representative 9400 Park St. Myrtle Beach, SC 29572 843-712-(home) 571-239-2527(cell) arthur...@gmail.com lenahollm...@gmail.com*www.rrcasouth.com* ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!!
Wups! Thank You, that could have become embarrassing. I sent that because it likely means his computer is being remotely operated without his knowledge, and using his email account. These are not people you want messing around in your computer! I thought you might want to notify him. He could probably stop it by setting his firewall to not allow remote use and economise on the ports available etc. I'm no expert, but I have read a few things about it while setting up my computer firewalls. A good thing to put a stop to anyway... Robin Hi Robin Yes, piracy, Dawie's email address got phished, if that's the word, hijacked. Strange, the message reached you and me but it didn't make it into the list archives. I wonder if Dawie knows she is selling drugs? Dawie's a he, not a she. All best Keith I should have known better when I saw there was no subject Robin On 29-Jul-10, at 7:15 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!!
Robin Strange thing is, all this happened during two days while my computer was switched off and the modem physically disconnected. But Yahoo mail is web-based: it doesn't matter which computer it's sent from. Perhaps Yahoo themselves can help? Regards Dawie From: Robin Pentney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 30 July, 2010 15:17:19 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!! Wups! Thank You, that could have become embarrassing. I sent that because it likely means his computer is being remotely operated without his knowledge, and using his email account. These are not people you want messing around in your computer! I thought you might want to notify him. He could probably stop it by setting his firewall to not allow remote use and economise on the ports available etc. I'm no expert, but I have read a few things about it while setting up my computer firewalls. A good thing to put a stop to anyway... Robin Hi Robin Yes, piracy, Dawie's email address got phished, if that's the word, hijacked. Strange, the message reached you and me but it didn't make it into the list archives. I wonder if Dawie knows she is selling drugs? Dawie's a he, not a she. All best Keith I should have known better when I saw there was no subject Robin On 29-Jul-10, at 7:15 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100730/2ef0083c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!!
For whatever reason, yahoo based emails seem to be more prone to spoofing than some others. Though, I have seen a gmail one spoofed once too. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Dawie Coetzee [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Robin Strange thing is, all this happened during two days while my computer was switched off and the modem physically disconnected. But Yahoo mail is web-based: it doesn't matter which computer it's sent from. Perhaps Yahoo themselves can help? Regards Dawie From: Robin Pentney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 30 July, 2010 15:17:19 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!! Wups! Thank You, that could have become embarrassing. I sent that because it likely means his computer is being remotely operated without his knowledge, and using his email account. These are not people you want messing around in your computer! I thought you might want to notify him. He could probably stop it by setting his firewall to not allow remote use and economise on the ports available etc. I'm no expert, but I have read a few things about it while setting up my computer firewalls. A good thing to put a stop to anyway... Robin Hi Robin Yes, piracy, Dawie's email address got phished, if that's the word, hijacked. Strange, the message reached you and me but it didn't make it into the list archives. I wonder if Dawie knows she is selling drugs? Dawie's a he, not a she. All best Keith I should have known better when I saw there was no subject Robin On 29-Jul-10, at 7:15 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100730/2ef0083c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100730/fa2641ea/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!!
I wonder if Dawie knows she is selling drugs? I should have known better when I saw there was no subject Robin On 29-Jul-10, at 7:15 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Piracy!!!
Hi Robin Yes, piracy, Dawie's email address got phished, if that's the word, hijacked. Strange, the message reached you and me but it didn't make it into the list archives. I wonder if Dawie knows she is selling drugs? Dawie's a he, not a she. All best Keith I should have known better when I saw there was no subject Robin On 29-Jul-10, at 7:15 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: http://alproguncodesbirdkisquiprosunse1756.bettermedsrx.com/?camp=2 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prius subject to U.S., Japan brake gripes
Keith Addison wrote: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100204a1.html I'd say it's coming up on a good time to buy Toyota stock. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Prius subject to U.S., Japan brake gripes
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100204a1.html Thursday, Feb. 4, 2010 Prius subject to U.S., Japan brake gripes Trouble with new hybrid one more blow for Toyota Compiled from AP, Kyodo More than 114 brake problems have been reported for Toyota Motor Corp.'s popular Prius hybrid in Japan and the United States, data from the two countries' transport authorities showed Wednesday. The revelation looms as another safety headache for Toyota after unintended acceleration problems on some U.S. models spurred mass recalls. In Tokyo, the transport ministry said it has received 14 complaints in Japan about brake problems with Toyota's best-selling hybrid, while separate data from the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration showed it has received more than 100 gripes involving the brakes of the hybrid that debuted last year. If serious problems are found with the Prius, it could further damage the image of Toyota, which has been a pioneer in developing the hybrid green technology. The automaker's sales are being battered in the U.S. after massive recalls of top-selling models to fix a gas pedal that can stick in the depressed position. The new Prius gas-electric hybrid, which went on sale last year, is not part of the global recalls that cover nearly 4.5 million vehicles. Complaints in Japan include sudden declines in braking power when slowing down on bumpy roads, the ministry said. The 14 complaints included an accident in Matsudo, Chiba Prefecture, last July in which a Prius crashed head on into another car at an intersection. Transport ministry official Masaya Ota said two people were slightly injured in the accident. The complaints involve the new Toyota Prius model, and the vehicles were all made in Japan, Ota said. Prius drivers complained brakes were not so sharp. The 100 complaints received by the NHTSA involving the brakes of the new Prius included two crashes resulting in injuries. The ministry ordered Toyota to investigate the complaints. The other 13 cases happened from December to last month. Ota said the ministry has yet to receive a formal report on the complaints from Toyota. A Toyota official said the company is aware of the brake-related complaints and is investigating the matter. The Prius, now in its third generation since its 1997 introduction, is the best-selling gas-electric hybrid in the world, racking up a cumulative 1.6 million units sold so far, according to Toyota. The carmaker meanwhile stepped up its public relations offensive, posting a new full-page ad in major U.S. newspapers Tuesday in an attempt to regain consumer confidence. In papers including The New York Times and Washington Post, President and Chief Operating Officer of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. Jim Lentz said, I am truly sorry for the concern our recalls have caused, and want you to know we're doing everything we can - as fast as we can - to make things right. --- Toyota fears sales hit from recalls The damage to Toyota's sales from its global recall for an accelerator problem may be greater than previous recalls because of the unprecedented scale. [MORE] - http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100203a1.html --- Pedal problem was known in '07, exec says A Toyota executive says the company was aware of problems with gas pedal systems as early as in 2007 but could not spot the exact defect. [MORE] - http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100203a2.html --- Toyota new car sales plummet 16% in U.S. New car sales by Toyota Motor Corp. plunged 15.8 percent in the United States in January from a year earlier to 98,796 vehicles as the carmaker was rocked by a massive recall of some of its top-selling models, a U.S. research firm said Tuesday. [MORE] - http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100204a2.html --- U.S. suits mount over Toyota-acceleration deaths, injuries THOM WEIDLICH and MARGARET CRONIN FISK http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nn20100202n1.html --- Honda issues recall for 8,532 cars in India Honda Motor Co. will recall 8,532 small cars in India for free repairs of faulty power window switches that can cause a fire. [MORE] - http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100203a5.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
I have been making biodiesel using ethanol for about a year. Methanol is $500 a barrel in Hawaii. I'm having some difficulty with partial conversions with substantial vegetable oil remaining dissolved in the ethyl esters demonstrable by the methanol test. I have been using 99% alcohol I make from sugarcane that I grow. I am currently using all distillation fractions including the light and heavy alcohol portions. Any thoughts on whether it would be better to use only the ethanol fraction in order to encourage more complete conversions? Lee -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091203/72b0aeaa/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/afterword.html -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080501/85da5987/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi to everyone: Anyone in the Philippines interested in about a ton of glycerine cocktail. Just haul it away and it's yours. I'm in Bulacan. Best, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Opec Subject to Anti-trust Action
Opec Subject to Anti-trust Action http://www.nypress.com/contentswitch.cfm?cid=19076 By Ed Koch Gasoline prices are still over $3 per gallon. The price of crude oil is in the range of $70 per barrel. OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) keeps prices where it wants them and the rest of the world follows. A major factor in determining the profits of oil producers is the cost of drilling wells and pumping oil. Petroleum that is closest to the surfacesuch as Mideast oil, particularly Saudi Arabian oilis cheapest to extract. Among the highest cost per barrel is the offshore oil extracted from the North Sea by Great Britain and Norway. Yet, all oil-producing nations use the OPEC price. Surely, if ever there was a case that demonstrates the power of a cartel, its OPEC. If ever there was a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, this is it. But what are we doing about it? In 1978, an independent group sued OPEC. In 1981 the case was dismissednot on the meritsby a United States Court of Appeals on the grounds that the policies of OPEC members were acts of state and thus immune from lawsuits. The struggle against OPEC goes on. A bill recently passed by the House, 345 to 72, and by the Senate 70-23, despite a letter from the president threatening a veto, authorizes the Department of Justice to sue OPEC nations in U.S. courts. The sponsors of the legislation are Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa) and Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wi). The votes in both Houses were with veto-proof majorities. Whether or not a suit will be brought by the Department of Justice, the only party permitted under the legislation to initiate a lawsuit, is already clear. It wont during the Bush administration. The president has made clear he is opposed to such litigation. Every presidential candidate, Republican or Democrat, should now be asked: If you become president, will you direct the Department of Justice to sue OPEC? There are those, like Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM), who oppose the legislation, who said, OPEC producers could just decide not to sell oil to us any longer. They would suffer the loss of some profits, but our entire economy could come to a grinding halt. The United States gets 60 percent of its oil from foreign countries, the largest portion, I believe, from non-OPEC countries such as Canada, Mexico and Nigeria. The Domenici argument does not hold up because the OPEC countries will not stop selling to us for several reasons. First, while the lawsuit is pending, the U.S. will be paying the OPEC cartel price. Those countries have an economy based primarily on the sale of oil, so it is highly unlikely they will refuse to sell to us. Secondly, countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait depend on the U.S. to maintain their security and defend them when they are threatened, as we have done in the recent past. If the lawsuit is successful, I have no doubt the assets of the offending nations in the U.S. would be subject to seizure. These assets are enormous and are a bargaining chip for future relationships. The oil companies selling gasoline in the U.S., many American-owned, are happy with the current situation. OPEC has helped to increase their corporate earnings. Their profits are at record highs, but they must obey any order issued by a federal court. There is much more that could be done by our government and the private sector. We should immediately create a new Manhattan Projectthe code name for the massive program that built the atomic bomb in World War II. That successful project cost $2 billion dollars, which in todays dollars today would be $21 billion. The Energy Manhattan Project should explore the use of alternative fuels and more important, a way to make them available at reasonable prices. Alternative fuels, which tend to be expensive, can be suppressed by OPEC and other nations through a process known as sweatingdropping their oil prices for a sufficient length of time to make competitive products unprofitable, and then raising them again. Therefore, long-term contracts with alternative energy suppliers must protect them against manipulated oil prices. I dont think either partyRepublican or Democratis truly interested in solving our energy problem. I have no doubt that many legislators are in the pockets of the oil companies. Were they truly interested in protecting the public from OPEC, they would have done something real and effective long ago. Today, we have an opportunity to find out if among all those running for president on any party lineRepublican, Democrat or Independentthere is someone out there willing to take on this vital issue. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Forum http://www.alternate-energy.net/B/mboard.php Next_Generation_Grid
[Biofuel] no subject
Hi Keith, Mike, Yessir, Keith, I did. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith Independence is an illusion. I recognize individuality, but independence...NOT Every individual one of us is part of the same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This is the truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe the same air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least as concerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, that way because we each receive a modification of the source. Some get more of the source than others. and This List is a wonderful place to help keep a guy honest and precise with his words. I've tried to do that, and I'm sure the LIST will help me do that better. We're all on a JourneyToForever, and the best any of us can do, it seems to me, is to be here to help ease the pain of our individuality a little or a lot. This is true and a very different message from below, the one I responded to, about the locusts, the polluted river, hopelessness and the gun at his side. My suggestion (ill-considered as usual, will I never learn?) was that if Mike feels as boxed in as he sounds, perhaps different geography would help, referring to the example Zeke recently set, in trying to change his life, leave a job he hated, make changes to his life to make himself more satisfied. Each of us must discover that for him or herself. Mike DuPree From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do We Know? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. Thanks D. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do I feel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably never was. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. I HAVE A DREAM... Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Big too overcome. Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hang me. No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...but wait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problem there too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid, poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong place to grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year that kept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knows where on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, I see, not supposed to SEE...just dream...Imagine...and take four bullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!! PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takin my can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water over there...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree That's all folks. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] no subject
Hey Jesse (and Jason and Mike Weaver)...thanks so much, Jesse...for both me and you.Changing location not out of the question, probably Canada (sorry friends to the North...might be gettin another fathead!!!), butgotta stick for now where I am, which OH...HEY Jason and Kate...My wife, Kathy, and I live in Lawrence. AndWeaver...you gotta be shittin me...you have familyinShawnee Mission??!!!...I graduated from Shawnee Mission North in 1970 LOL...and lived just about2 blocks to its southwest south of 61st St.on Robinson (6135 Robinson St.)...when there used to be a field and woods across the street out my front door to the west and a huge field out my back door to the east. It's all crowded now with apartment buildings and cars and general feeling ad nauseum. Anyway, isn't this something.Journey to Forever is helping me immensely get out of the boxI need to get out of for now, then I can think about the next box and lay all that on the List lol...Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "mark manchester" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] no subject Hi Keith, Mike, Yessir, Keith, I did. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith "Independence" is an illusion. I recognize "individuality,"but "independence"...NOT Every individual one of us is part ofthe same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This isthe truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe thesame air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least asconcerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, thatway because we each receive a modification of the source. Some getmore of the source than others. and This List is a wonderful placeto help keep a guy honest and precise with his words. I've tried todo that, and I'm sure the LIST will help me do that better. We'reall on a JourneyToForever, and the best any of us can do, it seemsto me, is to be here to help ease the pain of our individuality alittle or a lot. This is true and a very different message from below, the one I responded to, about the locusts, the polluted river, hopelessness and the gun at his side. My suggestion (ill-considered as usual, will I never learn?) was that if Mike feels as boxed in as he sounds, perhaps different geography would help, referring to the example Zeke recently set, in trying to change his life, leave a job he hated, make changes to his life to make himself more satisfied. Each of us must discover that for him or herself. Mike DuPree From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgDate: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other NonsenseHi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do WeKnow? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. ThanksD. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do Ifeel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably neverwas. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. "I HAVE A DREAM..." Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Bigtoo overcome. "Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hangme." No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...butwait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problemthere too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid,poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong placeto grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year thatkept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knowswhere on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, Isee, not supposed to SEE...just dream..."Imagine"...and take fourbullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!!PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takinmy can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water overthere...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree That's all folks. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:04:11 -0800 robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who doesn't like freedom? I have a problem with people who Robert, I have a problem with people who insist the 10 commandment be taken down so they won't feel guilty I have a problem with people that say abortion isn't murder but the baby is as dead as if it were. I have a problem with people who say we are all products of our environment therefore not responsible for our actions I have a problem with state governments that finds $ 22.5 million for fuel assistance programs, much of it taken from those cutting wood for fuel I have a problem with people that expect $millions for hot coffee they spill on themselves when they would also want to sue if it where not hot enough. I have a problem with governments that think they can legislate safety for idiots so they put so many safety devices on a machine that it's no longer suitable fot it's designed purpose. I have a problem with people who cry crocodile tears for the homeless while creating more through confiscatory property taxes Seems we have only proved that we have alot of problems Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
I subscribed to this list to read about a lot of things, but grammer is not one of them. I going to stop reading this thread not because I am not interested in the subject, but because it has become an argument over what the definition of a word is. Come on, we're actual people here, not politicians. I please me greatly if people would post about issues and not just bicker and snipe. Just my two cents, Paul WebberOn 12/8/05, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Bob, that's certainly one way to avoid addressing an incongruity.It's a darned good thing that there's a second ball around here so thatwhen you take yours and go home the rest of the world doesn't have to stop. May poles for you and back to work for me.Todd SwearingenTodd, you are repeating yourself and to be honest it is both tedious andboring.toodlesAppal Energy wrote: Bob,You've surely noticed by now that I'm somewhat of a literalist. Yes,there are nuances to everything which can dampen the literal. But forclaims of eradication to exist in the literal sense, that would mean no stores, no inventories, no weapons, no stockpiles and no incidents inthe human population whatsoever.Now if you wish to discuss the issue in the figurative sense, that's an entirely different ball of wax.here is another straw man Todd, I said and meanno such thing. I accept the word could as thesame where ever it is used, and I have said nothing to the contrary.Oh but you have issued contradictory comments that allude to somethingakin to two different approaches. On the one had you stated that the word could in a sentence raises red flags and clouds an issue acrossthe entire harbour for you. On the other hand, when it was noted thatsuch a word is a simplified cautionary statement, you suggested that I had apparently not read many inserts from various drugs. This in turnsgives the appearance of two different standards - one where the wordcould raises red flags and one where the word could is acceptable and apparently not to be questioned.Same word. Two different applications.You didn't have to say something directly in order to give the implication. What I said was that the word could means precisely that - anoccurrence could take place. It doesn't indicate that it will occureach and every time. But it does or can indicate that something is liable to happen on an occasional instance.This is by and large no different than the term acceptable risk, savefor the fact that in the latter it's not a matter of if, but whom and when. All a bit like Russian roulette in both cases. You know it and I know it.Now if you'd like to take issue with the charlatans who prey upon othersby using the same terminologies in an abject manner, then let's do so. But let's not mix the two and lend the appearance that all who use theword could or might are out to fleece the world in order to gainleverage for their own particular special interest. let's try to keep it in context.What I said was inthe context of an article that stated that inoculationscould be worse than the cure.In the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, testimonialsabout injury to individuals does nothing to advanceknowledge of the subject.Nothing? Nothing at all? Are you suggesting that bringing to light the negative of any course of action furthers nothing?I believe I've mentioned once before that one of the most worthwhilelines I've ever read in any biblical text is that My people perish for lack of knowledge. Yet here you're discounting knowledge, or onlyaccounting knowledge as that which happens in a laboratory under adouble blind study. I wonder from what pool only that the studies of investigators and scientists stem from? The sterile lab or life in itsentirety?I believe I've stated before that the practice of discounting so readilycan lend all too well to a broad chasm in understanding. you're beginning to repeat yourself, Todd.Of course I am Bob. But that wouldn't have to happen if you'd stopdancing around the May pole.As for vide infra? What's above addresses precisely that. Todd Swearingen___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Paul Webber[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Appal Energy wrote: Bob, It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Lest we forget, the claim was but a few years ago that polio had been eradicated. see above Todd, I said _almost_ Yet the claim was false, with several outbreaks across the globe, inclusive of one at an Amish enclave in the mid-west this summer. There is no reason to believe that this error has not been or could not be duplicated relative to other diseases. As well, viruses such as small pox haven't been erradicated sicat all when viral inventories are stored in numerous labs on multiple continents. Forget whatever their purpose of existance sic is reported to be. Todd, I think most would agree that a disease is eradicated if it no longer exists in the wild. Of course there are stores in laboratories, which constitute a risk of reintroduction to human populations, but as of right now that is not the case. Perhaps a high incident declination has occurred, but certainly not erradication sic. you must not read many drug package inserts. they are full of disclaimers. Bob, you're apparently postulating that a cautionary word relative to animal care - a word such as could - is a certifiable indicator for disbelief, while on the other hand the same word of caution when applied relative to human care it is to be accepted as valid. here is another straw man Todd, I said and mean no such thing. I accept the word could as the same where ever it is used, and I have said nothing to the contrary. Lest we forget, you did say the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. let's try to keep it in context. What I said was in the context of an article that stated that inoculations could be worse than the cure. In the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, testimonials about injury to individuals does nothing to advance knowledge of the subject. And you did say that relative to an article on animal vaccination. Are you also saying that the inclusion of might or could on the consumer insert of an over-the-counter or prescription drug casts the same cloud over all other material therein? _vide infra_ And if you're not applying the same standard to both fields, then you must be saying something else. you're beginning to repeat yourself, Todd. Are you saying that over vaccinating doesn't increase the potential for and actual instance of injury and death and that such a claim is balderdash? no I said no such thing Are you saying that the author is full of horse muffins? The poster? Would an application of double-standard be simply towards a profession that doesn't practice on bi-peds? That those things attributable to veterinary medicine are somehow to be more suspect and/or ascribed as hooey? That veterinary medicine is for those who are incapable of making the cut in the human medical field and that their work should therefore be suspect? I don't know where you are going with this track. It has stray so far afield of anything I said as to be Just precisely what is it that you're saying Bob? It's got to be something. No doubt, words such as could and might are indeed cautionary modifiers and can be manipulated to any degree by anyone with a purpose. But to discount a caution indicator relative animal vaccines as if it approaches poppycock and to openly accept caution indicators for human vaccines (or drugs) as valid warnings and the acceptable norm isn't exactly even handed. Whew, one more time, I didn't. Just a minor observation on the part of this mule skinner... Todd Swearingen good morning Todd Appal Energy wrote: Salute Bob, I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. I wasn't thinking of court precedings when I made mention of testimonials. If you'll note, a great number of medical studies rely in part upon personal testament. Take aspirin for instance. Range of motion may be one thing. But level of pain subsidence is all together another. All rather personal and, of course, subjective. but carefully controlled via double blind, placebo control. The same would have to hold true for persons who have a close existence with their pets. As the pets can't talk, at least not in the Queen's English, much reliance is made upon an owner's interaction/interpretation/understanding - transcribed as testimonial. that's how we got the Clever Hans phenomena similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Bob, You've surely noticed by now that I'm somewhat of a literalist. Yes, there are nuances to everything which can dampen the literal. But for claims of eradication to exist in the literal sense, that would mean no stores, no inventories, no weapons, no stockpiles and no incidents in the human population whatsoever. Now if you wish to discuss the issue in the figurative sense, that's an entirely different ball of wax. here is another straw man Todd, I said and mean no such thing. I accept the word could as the same where ever it is used, and I have said nothing to the contrary. Oh but you have issued contradictory comments that allude to something akin to two different approaches. On the one had you stated that the word could in a sentence raises red flags and clouds an issue across the entire harbour for you. On the other hand, when it was noted that such a word is a simplified cautionary statement, you suggested that I had apparently not read many inserts from various drugs. This in turns gives the appearance of two different standards - one where the word could raises red flags and one where the word could is acceptable and apparently not to be questioned. Same word. Two different applications. You didn't have to say something directly in order to give the implication. What I said was that the word could means precisely that - an occurrence could take place. It doesn't indicate that it will occur each and every time. But it does or can indicate that something is liable to happen on an occasional instance. This is by and large no different than the term acceptable risk, save for the fact that in the latter it's not a matter of if, but whom and when. All a bit like Russian roulette in both cases. You know it and I know it. Now if you'd like to take issue with the charlatans who prey upon others by using the same terminologies in an abject manner, then let's do so. But let's not mix the two and lend the appearance that all who use the word could or might are out to fleece the world in order to gain leverage for their own particular special interest. let's try to keep it in context. What I said was in the context of an article that stated that inoculations could be worse than the cure. In the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, testimonials about injury to individuals does nothing to advance knowledge of the subject. Nothing? Nothing at all? Are you suggesting that bringing to light the negative of any course of action furthers nothing? I believe I've mentioned once before that one of the most worthwhile lines I've ever read in any biblical text is that My people perish for lack of knowledge. Yet here you're discounting knowledge, or only accounting knowledge as that which happens in a laboratory under a double blind study. I wonder from what pool only that the studies of investigators and scientists stem from? The sterile lab or life in its entirety? I believe I've stated before that the practice of discounting so readily can lend all too well to a broad chasm in understanding. you're beginning to repeat yourself, Todd. Of course I am Bob. But that wouldn't have to happen if you'd stop dancing around the May pole. As for vide infra? What's above addresses precisely that. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy wrote: Bob, It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Lest we forget, the claim was but a few years ago that polio had been eradicated. see above Todd, I said _almost_ Yet the claim was false, with several outbreaks across the globe, inclusive of one at an Amish enclave in the mid-west this summer. There is no reason to believe that this error has not been or could not be duplicated relative to other diseases. As well, viruses such as small pox haven't been erradicated sicat all when viral inventories are stored in numerous labs on multiple continents. Forget whatever their purpose of existance sic is reported to be. Todd, I think most would agree that a disease is eradicated if it no longer exists in the wild. Of course there are stores in laboratories, which constitute a risk of reintroduction to human populations, but as of right now that is not the case. Perhaps a high incident declination has occurred, but certainly not erradication sic. you must not read many drug package inserts. they are full of disclaimers. Bob, you're apparently postulating that a cautionary word relative to animal care - a word such as could - is a certifiable indicator for disbelief, while on the other hand the same word of caution when applied relative to human care it is to be accepted as valid. here is another straw man Todd, I said and mean no such thing. I accept the word could as the same
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Todd, you are repeating yourself and to be honest it is both tedious and boring. toodles Appal Energy wrote: Bob, You've surely noticed by now that I'm somewhat of a literalist. Yes, there are nuances to everything which can dampen the literal. But for claims of eradication to exist in the literal sense, that would mean no stores, no inventories, no weapons, no stockpiles and no incidents in the human population whatsoever. Now if you wish to discuss the issue in the figurative sense, that's an entirely different ball of wax. here is another straw man Todd, I said and mean no such thing. I accept the word could as the same where ever it is used, and I have said nothing to the contrary. Oh but you have issued contradictory comments that allude to something akin to two different approaches. On the one had you stated that the word could in a sentence raises red flags and clouds an issue across the entire harbour for you. On the other hand, when it was noted that such a word is a simplified cautionary statement, you suggested that I had apparently not read many inserts from various drugs. This in turns gives the appearance of two different standards - one where the word could raises red flags and one where the word could is acceptable and apparently not to be questioned. Same word. Two different applications. You didn't have to say something directly in order to give the implication. What I said was that the word could means precisely that - an occurrence could take place. It doesn't indicate that it will occur each and every time. But it does or can indicate that something is liable to happen on an occasional instance. This is by and large no different than the term acceptable risk, save for the fact that in the latter it's not a matter of if, but whom and when. All a bit like Russian roulette in both cases. You know it and I know it. Now if you'd like to take issue with the charlatans who prey upon others by using the same terminologies in an abject manner, then let's do so. But let's not mix the two and lend the appearance that all who use the word could or might are out to fleece the world in order to gain leverage for their own particular special interest. let's try to keep it in context. What I said was in the context of an article that stated that inoculations could be worse than the cure. In the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, testimonials about injury to individuals does nothing to advance knowledge of the subject. Nothing? Nothing at all? Are you suggesting that bringing to light the negative of any course of action furthers nothing? I believe I've mentioned once before that one of the most worthwhile lines I've ever read in any biblical text is that My people perish for lack of knowledge. Yet here you're discounting knowledge, or only accounting knowledge as that which happens in a laboratory under a double blind study. I wonder from what pool only that the studies of investigators and scientists stem from? The sterile lab or life in its entirety? I believe I've stated before that the practice of discounting so readily can lend all too well to a broad chasm in understanding. you're beginning to repeat yourself, Todd. Of course I am Bob. But that wouldn't have to happen if you'd stop dancing around the May pole. As for vide infra? What's above addresses precisely that. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy wrote: Bob, It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Lest we forget, the claim was but a few years ago that polio had been eradicated. see above Todd, I said _almost_ Yet the claim was false, with several outbreaks across the globe, inclusive of one at an Amish enclave in the mid-west this summer. There is no reason to believe that this error has not been or could not be duplicated relative to other diseases. As well, viruses such as small pox haven't been erradicated sicat all when viral inventories are stored in numerous labs on multiple continents. Forget whatever their purpose of existance sic is reported to be. Todd, I think most would agree that a disease is eradicated if it no longer exists in the wild. Of course there are stores in laboratories, which constitute a risk of reintroduction to human populations, but as of right now that is not the case. Perhaps a high incident declination has occurred, but certainly not erradication sic. you must not read many drug package inserts. they are full of disclaimers. Bob, you're apparently postulating that a cautionary word relative to animal care - a word such as could - is a certifiable indicator for disbelief, while on the other hand the same word
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Well Bob, that's certainly one way to avoid addressing an incongruity. It's a darned good thing that there's a second ball around here so that when you take yours and go home the rest of the world doesn't have to stop. May poles for you and back to work for me. Todd Swearingen Todd, you are repeating yourself and to be honest it is both tedious and boring. toodles Appal Energy wrote: Bob, You've surely noticed by now that I'm somewhat of a literalist. Yes, there are nuances to everything which can dampen the literal. But for claims of eradication to exist in the literal sense, that would mean no stores, no inventories, no weapons, no stockpiles and no incidents in the human population whatsoever. Now if you wish to discuss the issue in the figurative sense, that's an entirely different ball of wax. here is another straw man Todd, I said and mean no such thing. I accept the word could as the same where ever it is used, and I have said nothing to the contrary. Oh but you have issued contradictory comments that allude to something akin to two different approaches. On the one had you stated that the word could in a sentence raises red flags and clouds an issue across the entire harbour for you. On the other hand, when it was noted that such a word is a simplified cautionary statement, you suggested that I had apparently not read many inserts from various drugs. This in turns gives the appearance of two different standards - one where the word could raises red flags and one where the word could is acceptable and apparently not to be questioned. Same word. Two different applications. You didn't have to say something directly in order to give the implication. What I said was that the word could means precisely that - an occurrence could take place. It doesn't indicate that it will occur each and every time. But it does or can indicate that something is liable to happen on an occasional instance. This is by and large no different than the term acceptable risk, save for the fact that in the latter it's not a matter of if, but whom and when. All a bit like Russian roulette in both cases. You know it and I know it. Now if you'd like to take issue with the charlatans who prey upon others by using the same terminologies in an abject manner, then let's do so. But let's not mix the two and lend the appearance that all who use the word could or might are out to fleece the world in order to gain leverage for their own particular special interest. let's try to keep it in context. What I said was in the context of an article that stated that inoculations could be worse than the cure. In the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, testimonials about injury to individuals does nothing to advance knowledge of the subject. Nothing? Nothing at all? Are you suggesting that bringing to light the negative of any course of action furthers nothing? I believe I've mentioned once before that one of the most worthwhile lines I've ever read in any biblical text is that My people perish for lack of knowledge. Yet here you're discounting knowledge, or only accounting knowledge as that which happens in a laboratory under a double blind study. I wonder from what pool only that the studies of investigators and scientists stem from? The sterile lab or life in its entirety? I believe I've stated before that the practice of discounting so readily can lend all too well to a broad chasm in understanding. you're beginning to repeat yourself, Todd. Of course I am Bob. But that wouldn't have to happen if you'd stop dancing around the May pole. As for vide infra? What's above addresses precisely that. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
good morning Todd Appal Energy wrote: Salute Bob, I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. I wasn't thinking of court precedings when I made mention of testimonials. If you'll note, a great number of medical studies rely in part upon personal testament. Take aspirin for instance. Range of motion may be one thing. But level of pain subsidence is all together another. All rather personal and, of course, subjective. but carefully controlled via double blind, placebo control. The same would have to hold true for persons who have a close existence with their pets. As the pets can't talk, at least not in the Queen's English, much reliance is made upon an owner's interaction/interpretation/understanding - transcribed as testimonial. that's how we got the Clever Hans phenomena similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Actually, decided by a select few within the greater hall of society, rather than society in general, and all too often predicated upon politics rather than sound social benefit for the greater good. With the Bush admin being but one indicator, valid statistics is often the least of all qualifiers in the development of policy. I am referring to society in the ideal sense, as I am certainly no shill for bush. the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. That cloud is more a consequence of intentional manipulation/semantics than it is a modest or moderate application of the word. Perhaps you would sense greater accuracy if the headline read creates a small percentage... rather than could? Just a wee tad curious as to where you might think the could actually came from? Thin air or documented occurances, boiled down to an editor's headline sound bite? Going the next step using your interpretational method, the same application would necessarily have to be made relative to humans who could suffer ill effects from a vaccine. I have already said that Whilst such is documented fact in numerous instances with all vaccinations, the very second a physician or attendant included the word could in a disclaimer, everything would be instantly clouded - apparently enough so that all previous data (all other material therein) becomes candidate for the round file as well. you must not read many drug package inserts. they are full of disclaimers. If it would help Bob, I'll put in a personal word with Santa Claus this year. I could let him know that you're not such a bad chap and that you're in need of a strainer rather than a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking this year. At least that way you MIGHT avoid throwing the baby out along with the bath water next time.. Todd Swearingen good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. Besides, it's rather difficult to get a dog to tell you that his joint and muscle tissue feels like mush for weeks after a vaccination. that doesn't negate the need for
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: This needs to be highlighted If being vaccinated protected the individual it really wouldn't matter if others were vaccinated at all .. or even sick. vaccinations are a simple method by which society can lessen the injury to many, even though a few will be injured in the process. As I said, you get more bang for your health care buck with vaccinations compared to any post infection treatment regimen. THAT IS WHAT BEING VACCINATED IS SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT .. and now you're telling us that .. well .. maybe no .. maybe it's about something else. Forced for the common good is such a grandiose concept in the mind of those who utter loudly from the rooftops that they have the ABSOLUTE ONLY VIEW POINT THAT MATTERS and they are SO RIGHT they are willing to enforce that view point by threat of martial law and/or gun point. with highly communicable diseases, quarantine is a very, very important measure. What is the first thing done if an animal is suspected of having rabies- quarantine. sort of like .. well the rest of them simply don't have the ability to understand so I must decide for them!! New England Journal of Science has had to reduce it's standards because they can no longer get an unbiased peer review on any subject because Corporations have funded through grants that affect the pocketbook of those individuals who would and/or could give a peer review. so maybe we should have more public expenditures to do research, so corporate money won't compromise the opinions? If there is an independent individual out there capable of giving an unbiased peer review one of the leading Journals of Science hasn't been able to find them. Hey, I am a war resisting, draft dodging, red blooded American. Our military was taken to court for using our troops as unknowing test subjects on experimental drugs .. the military lost. This was proven .. this was admitted .. Now Bush has requested the courts to resend their decision and allow forced vaccinations on military personal. I guess if the draft ever comes back into play, the decision to take the shot(s) or spend time in jail will become a real choice .. let's see .. take the shot and maybe spend the rest of my life in a institution having my diapers changed .. or a couple of years in jail .. In England the military has already been ordered to pay war time medical benefits to service men and women stricken with the so called Gulf War Syndrome even though some were never deployed .. they just received the vaccinations. In England at least 1 parent who was jailed after trial for killing their baby by shaking (Shaken Baby Syndrome) has been released from prison with no chance of a re-trial because it was discovered that the prosecution had withheld medical evidence that vaccination death and Shaken Baby death could not be determined. this is an interesting issue, can you provide links other than antivax sites? Other parents convicted of these same charges are having their cases studied with good prospects of having their convictions overturned. But in America the story is still very different. I would ask who were you planning on being the individual(s) who will be deciding these important matters for the rest of us? In the end we must trust our own judgment to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:42:32 -0600 good evening Todd, Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Society has to determine how much risk to force on an individuals and their pets and for how much protection to the common good. Generally I think we (society) have done a pretty decent job of it. In terms of public health care, there is no better bang for the buck than vaccinations. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Actually, I thought the issue was science and what we know about vaccinations and its effects. Cost/benefit has nothing more to do with science than do testimonials. If you want to discuss cause and effect, kindly maintain the same standards throughout all your discussions. As Todd points out, you tend to cherry pick. Worse, you change your standards to suit a point. Frankly, I would expect more rigor from a college professor, even one who may be playing Devil's Advocate (to afford some benefit of doubt). Perry Jones bob allen wrote: good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Perry, you are mixing the issues. Careful observation with appropriate controls can tell one the cost, be it monetary, or in human suffering. Likewise the same procedure will afford information on the benefit- numbers of lives saved or money not spent on treating an infection. The societal decision is just what ratio to accept. What if a vaccine saved 10 lives by preventing an infection but killed one life, due an autoimmune reaction? simplistically that would have a cost/benefit ratio of 10. is that acceptable? what if it were 1000, surely that would be more acceptable, so you see we have to decide on what we accept, science can only give us the ratio, the decision is ours as to how we use it. Perry Jones wrote: Actually, I thought the issue was science and what we know about vaccinations and its effects. Cost/benefit has nothing more to do with science than do testimonials. If you want to discuss cause and effect, kindly maintain the same standards throughout all your discussions. where did cause and effect come in here. (cause and effect is also amenable to the scientific method.) If you want to talk about cause and effect then we need to consider immunological principles. and that is a whole new discussion As Todd points out, you tend to cherry pick. I disagree Worse, you change your standards to suit a point. no I don't. show me where I have used any standard other than the scientific method as a means of gathering the facts. How those facts, as in a cost benefit ratio, are used is out of the realm of science. Frankly, I would expect more rigor from a college professor, even one who may be playing Devil's Advocate (to afford some benefit of doubt). be explicit then. You are making an accusation. show me where more rigor is to be expected. toodles Perry Jones bob allen wrote: good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
ok so I need a little more rigor here, I got my costs and benefits reversed. Please substitute benefit/cost ratio below and it makes sense. bob allen wrote: Perry, you are mixing the issues. Careful observation with appropriate controls can tell one the cost, be it monetary, or in human suffering. Likewise the same procedure will afford information on the benefit- numbers of lives saved or money not spent on treating an infection. The societal decision is just what ratio to accept. What if a vaccine saved 10 lives by preventing an infection but killed one life, due an autoimmune reaction? simplistically that would have a cost/benefit ratio of 10. is that acceptable? what if it were 1000, surely that would be more acceptable, so you see we have to decide on what we accept, science can only give us the ratio, the decision is ours as to how we use it. Perry Jones wrote: Actually, I thought the issue was science and what we know about vaccinations and its effects. Cost/benefit has nothing more to do with science than do testimonials. If you want to discuss cause and effect, kindly maintain the same standards throughout all your discussions. where did cause and effect come in here. (cause and effect is also amenable to the scientific method.) If you want to talk about cause and effect then we need to consider immunological principles. and that is a whole new discussion As Todd points out, you tend to cherry pick. I disagree Worse, you change your standards to suit a point. no I don't. show me where I have used any standard other than the scientific method as a means of gathering the facts. How those facts, as in a cost benefit ratio, are used is out of the realm of science. Frankly, I would expect more rigor from a college professor, even one who may be playing Devil's Advocate (to afford some benefit of doubt). be explicit then. You are making an accusation. show me where more rigor is to be expected. toodles Perry Jones bob allen wrote: good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Bob, It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Lest we forget, the claim was but a few years ago that polio had been eradicated. Yet the claim was false, with several outbreaks across the globe, inclusive of one at an Amish enclave in the mid-west this summer. There is no reason to believe that this error has not been or could not be duplicated relative to other diseases. As well, viruses such as small pox haven't been erradicated at all when viral inventories are stored in numerous labs on multiple continents. Forget whatever their purpose of existance is reported to be. Perhaps a high incident declination has occurred, but certainly not erradication. you must not read many drug package inserts. they are full of disclaimers. Bob, you're apparently postulating that a cautionary word relative to animal care - a word such as could - is a certifiable indicator for disbelief, while on the other hand the same word of caution when applied relative to human care it is to be accepted as valid. Lest we forget, you did say the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. And you did say that relative to an article on animal vaccination. Are you also saying that the inclusion of might or could on the consumer insert of an over-the-counter or prescription drug casts the same cloud over all other material therein? And if you're not applying the same standard to both fields, then you must be saying something else. Are you saying that over vaccinating doesn't increase the potential for and actual instance of injury and death and that such a claim is balderdash? Are you saying that the author is full of horse muffins? The poster? Would an application of double-standard be simply towards a profession that doesn't practice on bi-peds? That those things attributable to veterinary medicine are somehow to be more suspect and/or ascribed as hooey? That veterinary medicine is for those who are incapable of making the cut in the human medical field and that their work should therefore be suspect? Just precisely what is it that you're saying Bob? It's got to be something. No doubt, words such as could and might are indeed cautionary modifiers and can be manipulated to any degree by anyone with a purpose. But to discount a caution indicator relative animal vaccines as if it approaches poppycock and to openly accept caution indicators for human vaccines (or drugs) as valid warnings and the acceptable norm isn't exactly even handed. Just a minor observation on the part of this mule skinner... Todd Swearingen good morning Todd Appal Energy wrote: Salute Bob, I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. I wasn't thinking of court precedings when I made mention of testimonials. If you'll note, a great number of medical studies rely in part upon personal testament. Take aspirin for instance. Range of motion may be one thing. But level of pain subsidence is all together another. All rather personal and, of course, subjective. but carefully controlled via double blind, placebo control. The same would have to hold true for persons who have a close existence with their pets. As the pets can't talk, at least not in the Queen's English, much reliance is made upon an owner's interaction/interpretation/understanding - transcribed as testimonial. that's how we got the Clever Hans phenomena similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. global small pox and almost global polio? Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Actually, decided by a select few within the greater hall of society, rather than society in general, and all too often predicated upon politics rather than sound social benefit for the greater good. With the Bush admin being but one indicator, valid statistics is often the least of all qualifiers in the development of policy. I am referring to society in the ideal sense, as I am certainly no shill for bush. the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. That cloud is more a consequence of intentional manipulation/semantics than it is a modest or moderate application of the word. Perhaps you would sense greater accuracy if the headline read creates a small
[Biofuel] new subject line!!!
cripes, what is it that folks seem to want to put my name in the subject line? please stop- it adds nothing to the conversation and makes searches in the archives difficult. as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: From: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Vaccine Info] Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:21:17 +0100 If giving pets too many vaccines is injuring and killing them, why would this not be true for humans? http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4448558/detail.html NBC4.TV, CA Vaccinating Pets Could Do More Harm Than Good May 4, 2005 note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... I don't doubt that there are occasional allergic reactions to vaccinations among animals just as among humans, but but these are idiosyncratic. LOS ANGELES -- Many people get their pets vaccinated every year for health and protection. But is it possible those same vaccinations could be harming your pet or worse? Some veterinarians are starting to look more closely at those claims, reported NBC4's David Cruz. Today, Molly is a playful 4-year-old Basenji, but at 2 years old, she was covered in sores and fighting for life. She was dying, her owners told NBC4. Laying in her bed, she wouldn't get up. She would hardly eat. Doctors were baffled by the dog's mystery illness until they narrowed it down to a most likely cause, a severe reaction to multiple vaccines, given at the rescue shelter where her owners adopted her. What I understand now is that that can potentially overload the immune system, said Molly's owner. You do not need to vaccinate your pet every year and it may not be safe to do so, reported NBC4's Cruz. One veterinarian told NBC4 that millions of pets get booster shots every year, for everything from rabies and distemper to parvovirus and lyme disease, and most suffer no ill effects. which is just what I am saying. But these days, many veterinarians are taking a less is better approach. People often are so hysterical, they put the animals to sleep because it's an acute vaccine reaction and has to be treated rapidly to have the animal recover, but then you don't vaccinate again because the next one could kill the animal, the veterinarian said. One Los Angeles veterinarian said vaccines can remain effective for years without booster shots. He did a survey of more than 100,000 dogs that were vaccinated once for distemper and parvovirus. In every case, those who were tested and did not get boosters have remained healthy. Overvaccination has been suspected in causing tumors in some cats and immune problems in dogs. One family said their Yorkshire Terrier, Nicky, nearly died after an annual series of booster shots. She couldn't breathe well, she was weak, limp, a family member said. She was going to die. They said she probably wouldn't pull through it. After $6,000 in medical fees and a week in intensive care, Nicky pulled through. Doctors suspect an adverse vaccine reaction. You bring your dog in because you're trying to keep her healthy, and a week later you find out you almost killed her, the family member said. One doctor told NBC4 that if you're getting your pet vaccinated, here's a simple plan: Start with the basics, rabies, distemper and parvovirus, then consult with your vet. The doctor said German shepherds, rottweilers and poodles are at higher risk for adverse vaccine reactions, as are older pets. Concerned pet owners with questions are encouraged to consult with their veterinarian. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. Besides, it's rather difficult to get a dog to tell you that his joint and muscle tissue feels like mush for weeks after a vaccination. Short of an entire herd of animals being on death's door shortly after a vaccination, there's a high probability that testimonials play a far more significant role in this venue than in selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums. note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... You could indeed be. But nobody is aiming a meteorite at you or introducing one into your vacinity in the same manner or frequency as vaccinations are upon living creatures - four legged or other. As for the tin hat? A bit doubtful that it would help. At least not unless the last of the mass had been expended to the point of a dust spec within the last few inches of your noggin. I don't doubt that there are occasional allergic reactions to vaccinations among animals just as among humans, but but these are idiosyncratic. You state this as if it were an absolute and as if the idiosyncra[cies] are not germane. All a bit subjective on your part, albeit espoused as a definitive. I suppose this is where the discussion over what is significant and insignificant begins? Clinically or statistically significant? How many sig figs would you care to include or discount? which is just what I am saying. But you didn't comment on what they were saying after you found your place of agreement. Much like reading half the book, discounting the rest and making up your own ending. Sound science (and/or wise observation) includes everything, not just what is cherry picked. Todd Swearingen cripes, what is it that folks seem to want to put my name in the subject line? please stop- it adds nothing to the conversation and makes searches in the archives difficult. as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: From: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Vaccine Info] Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:21:17 +0100 If giving pets too many vaccines is injuring and killing them, why would this not be true for humans? http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4448558/detail.html NBC4.TV, CA Vaccinating Pets Could Do More Harm Than Good May 4, 2005 note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... I don't doubt that there are occasional allergic reactions to vaccinations among animals just as among humans, but but these are idiosyncratic. LOS ANGELES -- Many people get their pets vaccinated every year for health and protection. But is it possible those same vaccinations could be harming your pet or worse? Some veterinarians are starting to look more closely at those claims, reported NBC4's David Cruz. Today, Molly is a playful 4-year-old Basenji, but at 2 years old, she was covered in sores and fighting for life. She was dying, her owners told NBC4. Laying in her bed, she wouldn't get up. She would hardly eat. Doctors were baffled by the dog's mystery illness until they narrowed it down to a most likely cause, a severe reaction to multiple vaccines, given at the rescue shelter where her owners adopted her. What I understand now is that that can potentially overload the immune system, said Molly's owner. You do not need to vaccinate your pet every year and it may not be safe to do so, reported NBC4's Cruz. One veterinarian told NBC4 that millions of pets get booster shots every year, for everything from rabies and distemper to parvovirus and lyme disease, and most suffer no ill effects. which is just what I am saying. But these days, many veterinarians are taking a less is better approach. People often are so hysterical, they put the animals to sleep because it's an acute vaccine reaction and has to be treated rapidly to have the animal recover, but then you don't vaccinate again because the next one could kill the animal, the veterinarian said. One Los Angeles veterinarian said vaccines can remain effective for years without booster shots. He did a survey of more than 100,000 dogs that were vaccinated once for distemper and parvovirus. In every case, those who were tested and did not get boosters have remained healthy. Overvaccination has been suspected in causing tumors in some cats and immune problems in dogs. One family said their Yorkshire Terrier, Nicky, nearly
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. Besides, it's rather difficult to get a dog to tell you that his joint and muscle tissue feels like mush for weeks after a vaccination. that doesn't negate the need for sound data, free of preconceptions, observer bias, placebo effects etc. Short of an entire herd of animals being on death's door shortly after a vaccination, there's a high probability that testimonials play a far more significant role in this venue than in selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums. note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... You could indeed be. But nobody is aiming a meteorite at you or introducing one into your vacinity in the same manner or frequency as vaccinations are upon living creatures - four legged or other. As for the tin hat? A bit doubtful that it would help. At least not unless the last of the mass had been expended to the point of a dust spec within the last few inches of your noggin. granted that was a rather flippant example. I'll leave it alone. I don't doubt that there are occasional allergic reactions to vaccinations among animals just as among humans, but but these are idiosyncratic. You state this as if it were an absolute and as if the idiosyncra[cies] are not germane. All a bit subjective on your part, albeit espoused as a definitive. I suppose this is where the discussion over what is significant and insignificant begins? Clinically or statistically significant? How many sig figs would you care to include or discount? Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Society has to determine how much risk to force on an individuals and their pets and for how much protection to the common good. Generally I think we (society) have done a pretty decent job of it. In terms of public health care, there is no better bang for the buck than vaccinations. which is just what I am saying. But you didn't comment on what they were saying after you found your place of agreement. Much like reading half the book, discounting the rest and making up your own ending. Sound science (and/or wise observation) includes everything, not just what is cherry picked. the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. toodles Todd Swearingen cripes, what is it that folks seem to want to put my name in the subject line? please stop- it adds nothing to the conversation and makes searches in the archives difficult. as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: From: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sheri Nakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Vaccine Info] Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:21:17 +0100 If giving pets too many vaccines is injuring and killing them, why would this not be true for humans? http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4448558/detail.html NBC4.TV, CA Vaccinating Pets Could Do More Harm Than Good May 4, 2005 note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... I don't doubt that there are occasional allergic reactions to vaccinations among animals just as among humans, but but
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
Salute Bob, I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. I wasn't thinking of court precedings when I made mention of testimonials. If you'll note, a great number of medical studies rely in part upon personal testament. Take aspirin for instance. Range of motion may be one thing. But level of pain subsidence is all together another. All rather personal and, of course, subjective. The same would have to hold true for persons who have a close existence with their pets. As the pets can't talk, at least not in the Queen's English, much reliance is made upon an owner's interaction/interpretation/understanding - transcribed as testimonial. similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. It's a speed bump at best, as are all vaccines. Some are more effective than others. We certainly haven't eradicated any maladies, despite many proclamations to the contrary over the decades. Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Actually, decided by a select few within the greater hall of society, rather than society in general, and all too often predicated upon politics rather than sound social benefit for the greater good. With the Bush admin being but one indicator, valid statistics is often the least of all qualifiers in the development of policy. the one word could leaves enough wiggle room for anything to be possible, hence casting a cloud over all other material therein. That cloud is more a consequence of intentional manipulation/semantics than it is a modest or moderate application of the word. Perhaps you would sense greater accuracy if the headline read creates a small percentage... rather than could? Just a wee tad curious as to where you might think the could actually came from? Thin air or documented occurances, boiled down to an editor's headline sound bite? Going the next step using your interpretational method, the same application would necessarily have to be made relative to humans who could suffer ill effects from a vaccine. Whilst such is documented fact in numerous instances with all vaccinations, the very second a physician or attendant included the word could in a disclaimer, everything would be instantly clouded - apparently enough so that all previous data (all other material therein) becomes candidate for the round file as well. If it would help Bob, I'll put in a personal word with Santa Claus this year. I could let him know that you're not such a bad chap and that you're in need of a strainer rather than a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking this year. At least that way you MIGHT avoid throwing the baby out along with the bath water next time.. Todd Swearingen good evening Todd, Appal Energy wrote: Bob, as to your post, testimonials might be good for selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums, but it does little or nothing to advance your point. U, it's collective testimonials that are oft sought out in trials. If they can be accepted en masse as evidentiary, then they shouldn't be pooh poohed as readily as you would care to. I don't think the way court proceeding are conducted is a good analogy for how science is done. When it comes to vaccinations the issue is one of cost/benefit, which ultimately will be decided by society. Just what the costs and benefits are I believe are best determined by the scientific method, rather than the squeaky wheel. the costs of vaccination, other than monetary costs for production, are harm to individuals, where as the benefits accrue to society. Individuals have died from small pox vaccinations, but small pox is no longer a global scourge due to the vaccinations. Should we as a global society not have vaccinated? I submit that many many more would have died, and would still be dying had not the small pox vaccine been deployed. Individuals have died from polio vaccinations, but I am proud to have participated as a polio pioneer and now a bunch of people alive don't know what an iron lung is, again due the blocking of transmission of a viral infection. similarly I think that requiring rabies inoculations is sound social policy. Besides, it's rather difficult to get a dog to tell you that his joint and muscle tissue feels like mush for weeks after a vaccination. that doesn't negate the need for sound data, free of preconceptions, observer bias, placebo effects etc. Short of an entire herd of animals being on death's door shortly after a vaccination, there's a high probability that testimonials play a far more significant role in this venue than in selling used cars and various and sundry nostrums. note the operative word could. I could be hit by a meteorite, and a tin foil hat might help... You could indeed be. But nobody is aiming a
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures
This needs to be highlighted If being vaccinated protected the individual it really wouldn't matter if others were vaccinated at all .. or even sick. THAT IS WHAT BEING VACCINATED IS SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT .. and now you're telling us that .. well .. maybe no .. maybe it's about something else. Forced for the common good is such a grandiose concept in the mind of those who utter loudly from the rooftops that they have the ABSOLUTE ONLY VIEW POINT THAT MATTERS and they are SO RIGHT they are willing to enforce that view point by threat of martial law and/or gun point. sort of like .. well the rest of them simply don't have the ability to understand so I must decide for them!! New England Journal of Science has had to reduce it's standards because they can no longer get an unbiased peer review on any subject because Corporations have funded through grants that affect the pocketbook of those individuals who would and/or could give a peer review. If there is an independent individual out there capable of giving an unbiased peer review one of the leading Journals of Science hasn't been able to find them. Our military was taken to court for using our troops as unknowing test subjects on experimental drugs .. the military lost. This was proven .. this was admitted .. Now Bush has requested the courts to resend their decision and allow forced vaccinations on military personal. I guess if the draft ever comes back into play, the decision to take the shot(s) or spend time in jail will become a real choice .. let's see .. take the shot and maybe spend the rest of my life in a institution having my diapers changed .. or a couple of years in jail .. In England the military has already been ordered to pay war time medical benefits to service men and women stricken with the so called Gulf War Syndrome even though some were never deployed .. they just received the vaccinations. In England at least 1 parent who was jailed after trial for killing their baby by shaking (Shaken Baby Syndrome) has been released from prison with no chance of a re-trial because it was discovered that the prosecution had withheld medical evidence that vaccination death and Shaken Baby death could not be determined. Other parents convicted of these same charges are having their cases studied with good prospects of having their convictions overturned. But in America the story is still very different. I would ask who were you planning on being the individual(s) who will be deciding these important matters for the rest of us? From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new subject line!!! was ... Overvaccinating Pets Kills and Injures Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:42:32 -0600 good evening Todd, Yes, risk assessment is in the end is a subjective determination, decided by society, but hopefully guided by valid statistics. Society has to determine how much risk to force on an individuals and their pets and for how much protection to the common good. Generally I think we (society) have done a pretty decent job of it. In terms of public health care, there is no better bang for the buck than vaccinations. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Mario, I suggest you to study this subject thru the many books and conferences as for example from: http://www.pyne.co.uk/ Last meeting where we were present was the 14th. European Conference on Biomass for Energy, Industry and the Environment in Paris, last October. Look for it also in the web. In our case we are continously working, studying and participating in said events since 1997. Up to the present we have constructed, and have in operation, a pyrolysis plant, and more recently a biomass gasification plant, from which we obtain the fuel gas to heat the pyrolysis reactor. In effect there is a lot of information in the web. You have to study it, select the most important, then you have to study it in more detail, analyze the chemistry which is involved, the thermodynamics, the economics, etc. Yes you have to spend a lot of time, a lot of money. That is business. Even water distillation has details and difficulties to overcome if you want to fill 1,000 five liters plastic bottles to be sold for truck radiators. Imagine the complex structure of wood. I insist: study. Best regards, Marcelino - Original Message - From: Mariodg77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pyrolysis and gassification Hi. as told you some days ago, I need ,for my study ,some detailed informations about pyrolysis and gassification, such as details on what comes out in function on what I put in, chemichal characteristics of inputs , links to publications about these 2 processes . Can someone help me?The web is full of stuff, but only words and nothing concrete... thanks a lot, Mario - Original Message - From: Mariodg77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hi all, My name is Mario Di Giulio and i'm a newbye in this mailing list. I'm a mechanical engineering student at the University of Trieste. I'm finishing my studies and I'm starting to work on a project called STE (xsiccation pyrolysis and gassification). After collecting bibliography I'm supposed work on energy and mass balances upon the pyrolysis and gassification processes. I hope to find good material here, and I please you to help me. I'll start to search in this mailing list archive if there is something useful for my study , and I ask you if you have some advices on where else to find bybliography. Thanks all , see you soon :) Mario -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Iscriviti Gratis al primo corso on-line di Web Marketing in Italia! Impara subito come promuoverti su internet - clicca qui Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=3210d=20051117 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Thanks a lot, at least someone that answers me :) Da: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Oggetto: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Data: 29/11/05 12:47 Mario, I suggest you to study this subject thru the many books and conferences as for example from: http://www.pyne.co.uk/ Last meeting where we were present was the 14th. European Conference on Biomass for Energy, Industry and the Environment in Paris, last October. Look for it also in the web. In our case we are continously working, studying and participating in said events since 1997. Up to the present we have constructed, and have in operation, a pyrolysis plant, and more recently a biomass gasification plant, from which we obtain the fuel gas to heat the pyrolysis reactor. In effect there is a lot of information in the web. You have to study it, select the most important, then you have to study it in more detail, analyze the chemistry which is involved, the thermodynamics, the economics, etc. Yes you have to spend a lot of time, a lot of money. That is business. Even water distillation has details and difficulties to overcome if you want to fill 1,000 five liters plastic bottles to be sold for truck radiators. Imagine the complex structure of wood. I insist: study. Best regards, Marcelino - Original Message - From: Mariodg77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pyrolysis and gassification Hi. as told you some days ago, I need ,for my study ,some detailed informations about pyrolysis and gassification, such as details on what comes out in function on what I put in, chemichal characteristics of inputs , links to publications about these 2 processes . Can someone help me?The web is full of stuff, but only words and nothing concrete... thanks a lot, Mario - Original Message - From: Mariodg77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hi all, My name is Mario Di Giulio and i'm a newbye in this mailing list. I'm a mechanical engineering student at the University of Trieste. I'm finishing my studies and I'm starting to work on a project called STE (xsiccation pyrolysis and gassification). After collecting bibliography I'm supposed work on energy and mass balances upon the pyrolysis and gassification processes. I hope to find good material here, and I please you to help me. I'll start to search in this mailing list archive if there is something useful for my study , and I ask you if you have some advices on where else to find bybliography. Thanks all , see you soon :) Mario -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Iscriviti Gratis al primo corso on-line di Web Marketing in Italia! Impara subito come promuoverti su internet - clicca qui Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=3210d=20051117 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Jamba: le ultime suonerie per il tuo cellulare! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=3761d=20051129 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Keith no blame here (i know how weasely crackers are) should have known better than to open a no subject attmnt -- no harm done, my AV caught refused the virus -- but just to let you know warn others. E. Allen :-)~ --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as a binary attachment. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
[Biofuel] (no subject)
hi biofuelrs im Marty from Ketucky i have a 2005 chevy durmax diesel truck i was planning to run b100 in the manual recomends 5% i was wondering if anyone new if i needed to change gaskets of somthing to run it dont want to ruin it and i have a another question i am doing some contract work a peater Creamer they make Biodiesel there and have 275 gallon tote of it would th simple water test be good. i dont want to use junk!, by the way i got some barrels fome there that contanded white potrol greise how clean dose it need to be to use as a storage drum without efiecting the process. sorry about the spelling any advice would be greatly appreacated thankyou _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Pay attention whether or not using B100 will avoid the truck's warranty. PJW - Original Message - From: Marty Goshorn To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 7:50 AM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) hi biofuelrsim Marty from Ketucky i have a 2005 chevy durmax diesel truck i was planning to run b100 in the manual recomends 5% i was wondering if anyone new if i needed to change gaskets of somthing to run it dont want to ruin it and i have a another question i am doing some contract work a peater Creamer they make Biodiesel there and have 275 gallon tote of it would th simple water test be good. i dont want to use junk!, by the way i got some barrels fome there that contanded white potrol greise how clean dose it need to be to use as a storage drum without efiecting the process. sorry about the spelling any advice would be greatly appreacated thankyou_Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new subject line was personal name, thank you
no comments here just want out of the limelight so to speak Joe Street wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Right-on Todd. There have been REAL discussions on the disposal radioactive waste in any number of consumer products, in trace amounts. The most recent example of this I have heard about is a proposal to add nuclear waste in small amounts to the smelters during metal fabrication. In this way it was proposed that the nuclear material can be diluted and spread around. The proponent's argue that it can be diluted to the point that radiation levels are in the background noise. I remember reading this in an article in Scientific American about a year or two ago but couldn't say which exact issue. The article said imagine that this means that waste from a nuclear reactor could one day end up in the braces in your daughter's teeth! The most convenient method of disposal so far has been in the production of depleted uranium munitions which are both horribly destructive on the battlefield AND allows one to leave it in the country with which they were fighting, with little possibility of recovery. Yes DU weapons are a crime. One day I hope the criminals will be brought to justice. But who will do it? Those who are too quick to accuse someone of being paranoid are watched carefully by those who are thinking of doing the seemingly unthinkable. I am no conspiracy theorist but this is not to say that those in the positions of power and wealth definitely like the fact (and probably do work to maintain) that the public is willing to dismiss much as the ravings of a bunch of crackpot conspiracy theorists. Besides it is hard to really call it a conspiracy when the entire organizational system of our society works to support and serve the interests of those at the top of the food chain. It is more like a self fulfilling prophesy than a diabolical plan of a few spoiled rich greedy megalomaniacs. The system works so well that they (at the top) don't really have to do a lot except make a few tweaks now and again. Joe */Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: U., let's see Bob, Paranoia is it? You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That nasty little paranoid conspiracy theory unraveled in the early 90's. http://www.ippnw.org/MGS/V1N1McCally.html You seem to forget the thousands of US military personel exposed during Operation Crossroads as well as thousands more intentionally positioned to observe atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test sites, not to mention the forty years of denial and deceit that followed. Let's forget the decades that literally millions of US citizens were exposed to fad, over-the-counter drugs containing radium, such as Dentarium, Ointarium, Kaparium, Linarium and just plain Arium, or the water elixir labeled Radithor. They were all being deemed perfectly safe and denials were issued by all private and government entities fifteen years after people started dropping like flies and up to the very days that each was separately pulled from the market.. You seem to forget that for thirty-eight years, between 1932 and 1970, the US Public Health Service and the Tuskegee Institute conducted studies on 399 black men diagnosed with syphilis. They intentionally withheld treatment and diagnostic information from these men for decades, treating them with placebos and setting up elaborate free medical schemes to keep their study group from venturing out of their purview so that they could maintain the integrity of their data. And even with such a dispersed yet long-lived historical track record and monumental data sets, you continually poo-poo and dismiss all reports or concerns of all other deceit and debilitating chicanery as if claims of such are the ravings of lunatics. Nonsense. One of us is either really gullible or really stupid Bob. You if you don't believe precisely what cold and calculated depths concerted public and private interests are capable of stooping to, and me if I accept your overly eager dismissals of anything and everything as being nothing more than paranoia. Todd Swearingen ** bob allen wrote: woo-woo alert! Charles Tounah wrote: Hello, As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in the atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose sole apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down in the atmosphere. oh really? I have personally observed them in many different cities, even in different
[Biofuel] aaargh! subject line!!!!
i think just posted another reply and forgot to edit the subject line again. my apologies to all, i know how frustrating that can be. won't do it again. -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Use the Yellow can, for BioDiesel. The reason for the color difference of the can, is so someone will not mistake it for gasoline ( red ) or kerosene ( blue ).I know, you would check, but, it doesn't mean someone else will. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Scott Yancey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 14:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) I'm pretty new here. Hello all: Question: 1. Is there a requirement to use a red gas can for biofuel (yellow for diesel)? 2. How does an apartment dweller create fuel in his or her small space? Scott ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
I'm pretty new here. Hello all: Question: 1. Is there a requirement to use a red gas can for biofuel (yellow for diesel)? 2. How does an apartment dweller create fuel in his or her small space? Scott - Original Message - From: Gary Shenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hey Michael Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the best way to get started? Thanks Gary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400 Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hey Michael Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the best way to get started? Thanks Gary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400 Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
HI ALL,IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME I WOULD LIKE TO BRING THE FLASH POINT OF METHANOL DOWN TO THE SAME AS NORMAL PETROL SO THAT I CAN USE IT AS FEUL FOR MY CAR THANX KOBUS S.A. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi Ray, No answers? don't despair. Our dear Darryl must be busy. He's up near you. The lye is not expensive, a Cdn Tire thing, and he told me last year where to get methanol. Erg, I'm looking for it in the old letters. Jesse From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:50:48 -0400 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada: I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even. Ray -- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada: I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even. Ray -- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
NaOH or KOH from supply houses, inclusive of internet, that serve home soapmakers. NaOH in pound lots at the neighborhood grocery or hardware store. CH3OH in 55 gallon lots from bulk fuel plants and/or distributors. Larger bulk propane distributorships use methanol as a solvent for water condensate inside the bulk tanks, keeping it mixed with the propane. They should be able to point you to their sources. Automobile track racers use methanol as their prime fuel. They should be able to point you in an economically efficient direction Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada: I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even. Ray ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi Mike, I recall that lightning produces nitric acid when it reacts with atmospheric nitrogen. I think overall this is not a very significant production. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
WILLIAM MCDONOUGH / ECOLOGICAL GENIUS It was Einstein who said no problem can be solved by the same consciousness that created it ~ and William McDonough is attempting to solve our current ecological problems by utilizing a new ecological consciousness which is already having dramatic effects throughout the world. Here's his recent interview with Anne Underwood of Newsweek . Allen L Roland NEWSWEEK - ecological architect May 16, 2005 issue http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7773650/site/newsweek/ In a new interview series, NEWSWEEK talks to a leading ecological architect whose goal is nothing less than eliminating waste and pollution. Imagine buildings that generate more energy than they consume and factories whose waste water is clean enough to drink. William McDonough has accomplished these tasks and more. Architect, industrial designer and founder of McDonough Braungart Design Chemistry in Charlottesville, Virginia, he's not your traditional environmentalist. Others may expend their energy fighting for stricter environmental regulations and repeating the mantra reduce, reuse, recycle. McDonough's vision for the future includes factories so safe they need no regulation, and novel, safe materials that can be totally reprocessed into new goods, so there's no reason to scale back consumption (or lose jobs). In short, he wants to overhaul the Industrial Revolution -- which would sound crazy if he weren't working with Fortune 500 companies and the government of China to make it happen. The recipient of two U.S. presidential honors and the National Design Award, McDonough is the former dean of architecture at the University of Virginia and co-chair of the China-U.S. Center for Sustainable Development. He spoke in New York recently with NEWSWEEK's Anne Underwood. UNDERWOOD: Why do we need a new industrial revolution? MCDONOUGH: The Industrial Revolution as a whole was not designed. It took shape gradually as industrialists and engineers figured out how to make things. The result is that we put billions of pounds of toxic materials in the air, water and soil every year and generate gigantic amounts of waste. If our goal is to destroy the world -- to produce global warming and toxicity and endocrine disruption -- we're doing great. But if the goal isn't global warming, what is it? I want to crank the wheel of industry in a different direction to produce a world of abundance and good design -- a delightful, safe world that our children can play in. You say that recycling, as it's currently practiced, is downcycling. What we call recycling is typically the product losing its quality. Paper gets mixed with other papers, re-chlorinated and contaminated with toxic inks. The fiber length gets shorter, allowing more particles to abrade into the air, where they get into your lungs and nasal passages, and cause irritation. And you end up with gray, fuzzy stuff that doesn't really work for you. That's downcycling. [My mentor and colleague] Michael Braungart and I coined the term upcycling, meaning that the product could actually get better as it comes through the system. For example, some plastic bottles contain the resi-dues of heavy-metal catalysts. We can remove those residues as the bottles come back to be upcycled. Not all products lend themselves to that. Most manufacturers take resources out of the ground and convert them to products that are designed to be thrown away or incinerated within months. We call these cradle to grave product flows. Our answer to that is cradle to cradle design. Everything is reused -- either returned to the soil as nontoxic biological nutrients that will biodegrade safely, or returned to industry as technical nutrients that can be infinitely recycled. Aluminum is a technical nutrient. It takes tremendous energy to make, but it's easy to recapture and reuse. Since 1880, the human species has made 660 million tons of it. We still know where 440 million tons are today. Are there products already that meet cradle-to-cradle goals? If so, how do we find them? Within the month, we will be branding cradle to cradle. Products that meet our criteria for biological and technical nutrients can be certified to use our logo. A note on the packaging will tell you how to recycle it. You'll know: this one goes into my tomato plot when I'm finished or this one goes back to industry forever. We have already approved a nylon, some polyester textiles, running tracks, window shades, chairs from Herman Miller and Steelcase, and carpets from Shaw, which is part of Berkshire Hathaway. The first was a Steelcase fabric that can go back to the soil. We're now working on electronics on a global scale. How do paper products like magazines fit into this picture? Why take something as exquisite as a tree and knock it down? Trees make oxygen, sequester carbon, distill water, build soils,
LR fuel lines - was Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hello Alex Hello All Thanks for all the advice in the past. After a year of making Biodiesel and not being able to use it i purchased a 1994 Discovery (at the Right price ) I wanted somthing after 1996 but couldnt afford it so 1994 is it.I have checked for all the normal stuff eg cracked head ,transmission etc and it all seems ok.only some bushes have to be changed and tyres. 1. My question is about the fuel lines (what seems like hard plastic of a unknow kind )and fuel system the two pumps. Dose any one know what type of rubber is in the 1994 Landrover TDI 300 fuel system.Is it safe to use 100% Biodiesel if not what parts should i change??? The fuel lines and other fuel system parts will be resistant to low-sulphur diesel and to biodiesel. You won't have problems, and even in the highly unlikely event that you do have problems it won't be sudden, you'll have enough warning to avoid a disaster. Please see this previous message: If your BioD is properly made (i.e. a complete reaction) , more importantly well washed (typically 3 or 4 washes) I see no reason to fear pump failure even in early pumps. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51514.html RE: [Biofuel] Corolla's Fuel Pump See also: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#rubber Biodiesel and your vehicle Compatibility: -- Rubber (I am slowly introducing biodiesl at around 5---10% so far )but i dont want to go any higher till i get some advice about the fuel lines etc.I am just cleaning out the system slowly.but dont want to do any damage. 2. Also what is the effect of using a Petrol fuel filter but with a mix of Diesel/Biodiesel is it safeI am driving around with a 2nd new landrover filter incase my filter gets blocked but i havent found a in line filter for diesel so i am unsure if it is safe to us a Petrol filter. Safe enough, but how effective it will be depends on how fine it filters. Preferably it should be the same screen as your final filter. It doesn't have to be a Land Rover filter. Best wishes Keith Thanks in advance for any advice Alex. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi Alex, your asking your question in the right place! I have a 90 Range Rover Classic that was converted from 3.9 petrol to 300TDi before I got it, not very well I might add, I suspect the previous owner had run it on kero too as the diesel pump was knackered (clouds of black smoke) Im in the process of a near complete rebuild (mechanical bodywork) Any questions you have, feel free to ask, Id be only too glad to help. Land Rover recently issued a recall on vehicles this age group because of fuel line problems. The factory fitted steel pipes corroded ending in leaks the recommendation was to replace all fuel lines with the white plastic type, I think its nylon. Id changed mine anyway. To connect the new lines at the tank the pump you use neoprene tube jubilee clips that you will get from a diesel rebuild shop, it will have fuel use or similar stamped on it, it will be fine for bioD. I dropped the tank to give it a clean out but it was clean as a whistle. It sounds like your Discovery has had the lines replaced already, but to be sure check that the nylon lines run the full length, both ways (mine didnt there were 3 different types of tubing!!), check the black tubing used to join the lines at either end if it were me I would change those for known fuel rated tubing. As far as filters go, a good place to start is the diesel rebuild shop, they will be able to advise / supply in line filters Im sure. I havent installed one as I know my fuel system is squeaky clean now, the bio Ill be putting in will be well filtered to start with. I dont think it makes a difference what fuel type the filter you have used is, as Keith says its the screen size thats important. CAUTION never use silicon sealant on any part of the fuel system its a sure fire way to block your newly fitted lines. Hope that helps any questions just ask. Regards Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of alex burton Sent: 05 July 2005 02:08 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hello All Thanks for all the advice in the past. After a year of making Biodiesel and not being able to use it i purchased a 1994 Discovery (at the Right price ) I wanted somthing after 1996 but couldnt afford it so 1994 is it.I have checked for all the normal stuff eg cracked head ,transmission etc and it all seems ok.only some bushes have to be changed and tyres. 1. My question is about the fuel lines (what seems like hard plastic of a unknow kind )and fuel system the two pumps. Dose any one know what type of rubber is in the 1994 Landrover TDI 300 fuel system.Is it safe to use 100% Biodiesel if not what parts should i change??? (I am slowly introducing biodiesl at around 5---10% so far )but i dont want to go any higher till i get some advice about the fuel lines etc.I am just cleaning out the system slowly.but dont want to do any damage. 2. Also what is the effect of using a Petrol fuel filter but with a mix of Diesel/Biodiesel is it safeI am driving around with a 2nd new landrover filter incase my filter gets blocked but i havent found a in line filter for diesel so i am unsure if it is safe to us a Petrol filter. Thanks in advance for any advice Alex. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Hello All Thanks for all the advice in the past. After a year of making Biodiesel and not being able to use it i purchased a 1994 Discovery (at the Right price ) I wanted somthing after 1996 but couldnt afford it so 1994 is it.I have checked for all the normal stuff eg cracked head ,transmission etc and it all seems ok.only some bushes have to be changed and tyres. 1. My question is about the fuel lines (what seems like hard plastic of a unknow kind )and fuel system the two pumps. Dose any one know what type of rubber is in the 1994 Landrover TDI 300 fuel system.Is it safe to use 100% Biodiesel if not what parts should i change??? (I am slowly introducing biodiesl at around 5---10% so far )but i dont want to go any higher till i get some advice about the fuel lines etc.I am just cleaning out the system slowly.but dont want to do any damage. 2. Also what is the effect of using a Petrol fuel filter but with a mix of Diesel/Biodiesel is it safeI am driving around with a 2nd new landrover filter incase my filter gets blocked but i havent found a in line filter for diesel so i am unsure if it is safe to us a Petrol filter. Thanks in advance for any adviceAlex. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Alex, I would think you could find a number of website forums that deal strictly with the LR. If you got the owners manual it should give you that information. Check with a LR dealership?? Good luck, Jerry - Original Message - From: alex burton To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hello All Thanks for all the advice in the past. After a year of making Biodiesel and not being able to use it i purchased a 1994 Discovery (at the Right price ) I wanted somthing after 1996 but couldnt afford it so 1994 is it.I have checked for all the normal stuff eg cracked head ,transmission etc and it all seems ok.only some bushes have to be changed and tyres. 1. My question is about the fuel lines (what seems like hard plastic of a unknow kind )and fuel system the two pumps. Dose any one know what type of rubber is in the 1994 Landrover TDI 300 fuel system.Is it safe to use 100% Biodiesel if not what parts should i change??? (I am slowly introducing biodiesl at around 5---10% so far )but i dont want to go any higher till i get some advice about the fuel lines etc.I am just cleaning out the system slowly.but dont want to do any damage. 2. Also what is the effect of using a Petrol fuel filter but with a mix of Diesel/Biodiesel is it safeI am driving around with a 2nd new landrover filter incase my filter gets blocked but i havent found a in line filter for diesel so i am unsure if it is safe to us a Petrol filter. Thanks in advance for any adviceAlex. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
hi could anyone tell me if its possible to use biodiesel in a 1993 cummins b5.9 turbo diesel in my rv,the pro,s and cons ,of using the fuel,things to be aware of and any usefull information terry whyton ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
What do you mean specifically? Why only reference Christianity? What is the secret that nobody seems to be able to spell out? If the truth is so incomprehensible and unobtainable how can anyone be expected to know it when they find it? Michael M Better start thinking neocons and giving biblical prophecy a helping hand. A lot more there than meets the eye. Nasty business. Takes some digging and some understanding of fundamental Christianity. Rational to them but very, very scary. Happy Happy, Gustl On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:28:13 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darryl wrote: Clearly, taking out Saddam had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction (the U.N. inspectors had all but proven he had none before the U.S. found the courage to invade), or 9/11 (the plans were in play in the U.S. Administration *before* the planes hit the towers). It was not about getting the oil, as it was available for sale on the world market prior to the invasion. It wasn't about Iraq as a military threat in the region - the U.S. and U.K. were flying military and surveillance over the country *daily* prior to the invasion. It wasn't about Al- Qaeda - they despised Saddam. Hussein did not attack or threaten the U.S. So, Henri, in your opinion, why had the Bush White House really decided to invade Iraq - prior to 9/11? Could it be because the UN sanctions were failing and about to be lifted? The US was not about to allow the Saddam administration to get $10+ Billion in oil revenue each year knowing they would use it to resume their weapons programs. No, they did not have weapons of mass destruction yet, but they did have the know how and planned to build them ASAP once the sanctions were lifted. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hallo Michael, I am referring specifically to fundamentalist, dispensationalist, literalist, apocalyptic Christianity as it is applied by the neocons to the political situation in the world today. It is not so much that it is incomprehensible and unobtainable but more like the foundation on which the building is built. Unless you look at more than just the outside and inside of the building, unless you dig you never much think of the foundation. It is there but isn't given much consideration because folks are looking at the facade and trappings and how the building is used. Out of sight out of mind. This entire middle east situation is based on religious radicalism and fundamentalism of the worst sort and not just the radicalism and fundamentalism of the Muslim world, but that of the Israeli's and the U.S. The information is there for the finding but one has to get beyond the rhetoric and study the religious and political philosophies of the players in the U.S. and Israel to get to the roots of the matter. It is neither simple nor easy. Good luck if you are interested in pursuing this and get real familiar with your bible because it is all in there. Most Christians have no idea what these people uphold and what they are willing to do. They just see and identify with the Christian bit and think that they all have the same basic beliefs. They couldn't be more wrong. Hope this helps. Happy Happy, Gustl On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:48:34 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean specifically? Why only reference Christianity? What is the secret that nobody seems to be able to spell out? If the truth is so incomprehensible and unobtainable how can anyone be expected to know it when they find it? Michael M Better start thinking neocons and giving biblical prophecy a helping hand. A lot more there than meets the eye. Nasty business. Takes some digging and some understanding of fundamental Christianity. Rational to them but very, very scary. Happy Happy, Gustl On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:28:13 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darryl wrote: Clearly, taking out Saddam had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction (the U.N. inspectors had all but proven he had none before the U.S. found the courage to invade), or 9/11 (the plans were in play in the U.S. Administration *before* the planes hit the towers). It was not about getting the oil, as it was available for sale on the world market prior to the invasion. It wasn't about Iraq as a military threat in the region - the U.S. and U.K. were flying military and surveillance over the country *daily* prior to the invasion. It wasn't about Al- Qaeda - they despised Saddam. Hussein did not attack or threaten the U.S. So, Henri, in your opinion, why had the Bush White House really decided to invade Iraq - prior to 9/11? Could it be because the UN sanctions were failing and about to be lifted? The US was not about to allow the Saddam administration to get $10+ Billion in oil revenue each year knowing they would use it to resume their weapons programs. No, they did not have weapons of mass destruction yet, but they did have the know how and planned to build them ASAP once the sanctions were lifted. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Dear Sir/Madam, How can I get out of left glycerin left in biodiesel. Regards, cuneyt ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
I just had to share this. Bright Blessings, Kim OSLO, Norway There appears to be somewhat of a cultural divide between Texans and Norwegians. Residents of the Scandinavian country were taken aback when they saw the First Family appear to salute Satan during the inaugural parade yesterday. The president and his family were seen raising their right hands and extending their index and pinky fingers. Where Bush is from, that's recognized as a salute to the University of Texas Longhorns. Fans make the sign and shout Hook 'em, horns! during athletic events. But overseas, that same gesture is seen as a sign of the devil. And in Norway the salute is popular among death metal and black metal groups and fans. http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2839285http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2839285 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
It would stand up if that were it's ONLY application however it is not. Hand Symbol Thing: 1)Just to confuse the subject even further, the hand sign with the thumb held over the middle fingers is also the Buddhist Tarjani Mudra, a hand gesture to ward off evil. http://www.edepot.com/budmudra.html Source:http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/letters/ 2) http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/210105nothookem.htm Luc - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Greetings, I just had to share this. Bright Blessings, Kim OSLO, Norway There appears to be somewhat of a cultural divide between Texans and Norwegians. Residents of the Scandinavian country were taken aback when they saw the First Family appear to salute Satan during the inaugural parade yesterday. The president and his family were seen raising their right hands and extending their index and pinky fingers. Where Bush is from, that's recognized as a salute to the University of Texas Longhorns. Fans make the sign and shout Hook 'em, horns! during athletic events. But overseas, that same gesture is seen as a sign of the devil. And in Norway the salute is popular among death metal and black metal groups and fans. http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2839285http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2839285 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
as it once was. There is still some amount of activity on the west side of town, but not sure if it's Burlington Northern. Brian - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Doesn't Burlington Northern Trucking have a huge terminal in Anderson ? Luc - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Theo, I am in Anderson. The maps don't show it, but if you're coming from Chicago you can get off of 65 at State Road 47 (exit #146, I believe) and come across to Anderson. The road changes names three or four times, but eventually becomes 8th Street in Anderson, and I am about 3 blocks off 8th. When I go to Chicago, it takes a little over 2 hours to get to the south suburbs. Merrillville is 107 miles up 65, and it's about 45 minutes across 47. BRIAN THOMAS - Original Message - From: Theo Chadzichristos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:54 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Subject: [Biofuel] Free to good home: Methanol Dear brian , Im in a suburb of chicago and am intersted in your methanol drum. If you could post what city you live in so i can calculate the mileage from where i live. I woulndt mind driving a bit to pick it up but only with some reason. Thanks Theo Chadzichristos I still have a virtually untapped drum of methanol in Indiana, and will be moving to California in less than two weeks. I'm not going to want to try transporting it across country, and I do want to see it go to someone who will use it. If anyone wants it, let me know. I'm in central Indiana, about 35 miles north of Indianapolis. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Hi Wasn't the big magnesium fire in the same Anderson where you live? Derek -- Original message -- From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] They might. Most of the industry here is gone, so it is probably not as big as it once was. There is still some amount of activity on the west side of town, but not sure if it's Burlington Northern. Brian - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Doesn't Burlington Northern Trucking have a huge terminal in Anderson ? SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hi Wasn't the big magnesium fire in the same Anderson where you live? Derek Yes, it was. It was quite a site from a distance. Of course, we didn't venture any closer. That stuff is pretty toxic. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
I am in Anderson. The maps don't show it, but if you're coming from Chicago you can get off of 65 at State Road 47 (exit #146, I believe) and come across to Anderson. The road changes names three or four times, but eventually becomes 8th Street in Anderson, and I am about 3 blocks off 8th. When I go to Chicago, it takes a little over 2 hours to get to the south suburbs. Merrillville is 107 miles up 65, and it's about 45 minutes across 47. BRIAN THOMAS - Original Message - From: Theo Chadzichristos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:54 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Subject: [Biofuel] Free to good home: Methanol Dear brian , Im in a suburb of chicago and am intersted in your methanol drum. If you could post what city you live in so i can calculate the mileage from where i live. I woulndt mind driving a bit to pick it up but only with some reason. Thanks Theo Chadzichristos I still have a virtually untapped drum of methanol in Indiana, and will be moving to California in less than two weeks. I'm not going to want to try transporting it across country, and I do want to see it go to someone who will use it. If anyone wants it, let me know. I'm in central Indiana, about 35 miles north of Indianapolis. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Luc - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Theo, I am in Anderson. The maps don't show it, but if you're coming from Chicago you can get off of 65 at State Road 47 (exit #146, I believe) and come across to Anderson. The road changes names three or four times, but eventually becomes 8th Street in Anderson, and I am about 3 blocks off 8th. When I go to Chicago, it takes a little over 2 hours to get to the south suburbs. Merrillville is 107 miles up 65, and it's about 45 minutes across 47. BRIAN THOMAS - Original Message - From: Theo Chadzichristos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:54 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Subject: [Biofuel] Free to good home: Methanol Dear brian , Im in a suburb of chicago and am intersted in your methanol drum. If you could post what city you live in so i can calculate the mileage from where i live. I woulndt mind driving a bit to pick it up but only with some reason. Thanks Theo Chadzichristos I still have a virtually untapped drum of methanol in Indiana, and will be moving to California in less than two weeks. I'm not going to want to try transporting it across country, and I do want to see it go to someone who will use it. If anyone wants it, let me know. I'm in central Indiana, about 35 miles north of Indianapolis. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Subject: [Biofuel] Free to good home: Methanol Dear brian , Im in a suburb of chicago and am intersted in your methanol drum. If you could post what city you live in so i can calculate the mileage from where i live. I woulndt mind driving a bit to pick it up but only with some reason. Thanks Theo Chadzichristos I still have a virtually untapped drum of methanol in Indiana, and will be moving to California in less than two weeks. I'm not going to want to try transporting it across country, and I do want to see it go to someone who will use it. If anyone wants it, let me know. I'm in central Indiana, about 35 miles north of Indianapolis. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
pump mounted on the side of the injection pump. If it is hesitating or bucking it is most likely originally caused by a bad fuel filter there are two of them the prefilter before the fuel pump and the primary fuel filter after the pump going back down to the injection pump inlet. Once opened the air in the system can become very difficult to remove sometimes requiring the lines to the injectors to be opened in order to bleed. this process can take up to 15 minutes. You can also check for blockages in the fuel lines simply with compressed air but factory mercedes hoses like the rest of the car is amazingly over engineered and are very apparently biodiesel resistent. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) As a new reader of the list and new to the biofuel concept, are there any specific things I need to be aware of in looking at a car to run the biodiesel? Do yourself a favour, locate a older Mercedes; 1980's 240D or 300D (turbo) and upgrade it. Or, if you have the bucks try out the 1995 E300D Mercedes, reputed to be one of the better engines for BD along with the other aforementined. My 240D (1983) runs like new on B100. It just loves the stuff and I am more than happy to give it a steady diet :) Luc The only current production diesel available in the states, that I have found is the one by VW that is used in the Jetta and the Golf. Are there others? I do not have a problem with buying older models either. Any particular make or model that seems to have the least amount of issues using the biodiesel? I am new to diesels as well. I will start reading the archives, but I would like to get some of these answers to start me looking in the right direction for a car. Thanks in advance. Boliver Allmon ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
As a new reader of the list and new to the biofuel concept, are there any specific things I need to be aware of in looking at a car to run the biodiesel? The only current production diesel available in the states, that I have found is the one by VW that is used in the Jetta and the Golf. Are there others? I do not have a problem with buying older models either. Any particular make or model that seems to have the least amount of issues using the biodiesel? I am new to diesels as well. I will start reading the archives, but I would like to get some of these answers to start me looking in the right direction for a car. Thanks in advance. Boliver Allmon ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
VW Beetle, Jeep Liberty CRD = = = Original message = = = As a new reader of the list and new to the biofuel concept, are there any specific things I need to be aware of in looking at a car to run the biodiesel? The only current production diesel available in the states, that I have found is the one by VW that is used in the Jetta and the Golf. Are there others? I do not have a problem with buying older models either. Any particular make or model that seems to have the least amount of issues using the biodiesel? I am new to diesels as well. I will start reading the archives, but I would like to get some of these answers to start me looking in the right direction for a car. Thanks in advance. Boliver Allmon ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Here are a couple of good reads that contrast how the EU governments approach Renewable, Environmentally sound fuels and how the US Government is stumbling towards what should have already been done. The EU Article. http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1035320l=1t=Iowa+%2F+Illinois c=24,1035320 The US Article http://www.mysan.de/article19643.html ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] FW: Subject: Genetic (GM) Food
- Original Message - From: mom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Subject: Genetic (GM) Food Subject: Genetic (GM) Food GM WATCH daily: http://www.gmwatch.org/archive.asp --- THE SINISTER SACKING OF THE WORLD'S LEADING GM EXPERT - AND THE TRAIL THAT LEADS TO TONY BLAIR AND THE WHITE HOUSE by Andrew Rowell - The Daily Mail - July 7, 2003 EARLY one fine summer morning, a taxi pulled up outside a neat suburban terrace house in Aberdeen and took a 68-year-old scientist to a TV studio. Shortly afterwards Dr Arpad Pustzai found himself propelled from a life of grateful obscurity into the centre of an astonishing political maelstrom that would cost him his job, his reputation and his health. His crime was to question the safety of genetically modified food. His interview on ITV's World In Action lasted just 150 seconds, but that was long enough to reveal his ground-breaking research suggesting rats fed genetically modified potatoes suffered stunted growth and damage to their immune systems. It triggered a controversy that put him on a collision course with the Government, the biotech industry and the scientific establishment. The diminutive Hungarian-born scientist, who had escaped the terrors of Stalinism to enjoy a brilliant 35-year academic career, became a reviled figure: ostracised by colleagues, villified, and gagged. Now, five years on, there are disturbing claims that this distinguished scientist was the victim of behind-the-scenes manoeuvring at the highest political level. Some of the allegations are truly explosive. They raise profound questions about the extraordinary network of relationships between senior Labour figures and the biotech companies. They also throw new light on why the multi-billion-pound GM industry continues to press ahead in the face of huge public opposition. The World In Action documentary was broadcast on Monday, August 10, 1998. It was a little over a year since Tony Blair had swept into Downing Street. His government was in thrall to the biotech industry, convinced it could become a driving force of the British economy. What Dr Pusztai was saying threatened to derail those ambitions. He was based at the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen, which conducts research into animal nutrition. He had published more than 270 scientific studies and three books on lectins, plant proteins that are central to the GM controversy. He was the world's leading expert on the subject. In the TV interview, he said he believed GM food could be made safe, but added: 'If I had the choice I would certainly not eat it. He demanded tighter rules over GM foods, and warned: 'I find it's very unfair to use our fellow citizens as guinea pigs. We have to find guinea pigs in the laboratory.' On the evening the programme went out, the Rowett Institute's director Professor Philip James congratulated Dr Pusztai on his appearance, commenting how well he had handled the questions. The following morning a press release from the Institute gave him further support, stressing that a 'range of carefully controlled studies underlie the basis of Dr Pusztai's concerns'. Yet within 48 hours, everything had changed. Dr Pusztai had been suspended by the Institute and ordered to hand over all his data. His research team was dispersed and he was threatened with legal action if he spoke to anyone. His phone calls and e-mails were diverted; his personal assistant was banned from speaking to him. He read in a press release issued by the Institute that his contract would not be renewed. What triggered such an extraordinary about-face? How did a respected scientist become a pariah overnight? The results he claimed to have found were certainly worrying. Dr Pusztai maintained that when rats were fed a certain kind of GM potato -adapted to produce natural insecticide - their livers, hearts and other organs got smaller. He also found that the size of their brains was affected, but did not dare publicise this fact because he was thought to be alarmist. Clearly, such findings were deeply threatening for the GM industry. In Orwellian fashion, the Rowett Institute gave a number of conflicting reasons for suddenly disowning them. First, it claimed Dr Pusztai had simply got confused, muddling up the results for two different batches of potatoes. According to this explanation, the worrying results came from a 'control' sample of potatoes containing a substance known to be poisonous. This was an utterly astonishing claim - a basic error worthy of a bumbling schoolboy. Newspapers rightly described it as one of the most embarrassing blunders ever admitted by a major scientific institution. The trouble was, it wasn't true. Whatever the merits of his results, Dr Pusztai hadn't mixed them up, as a subsequent audit of his work confirmed. One of his colleagues, leading pathologist Stanley Ewen said: 'Arpad has always had a clear vision. He is certainly never muddled. He was on top of
Re: palm oil biodiesel in Thailand - was [biofuel] (no subject)
Keith Addison wrote: Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Dear Gumpon Sorry, I haven't been around much the last day or so. I think Ken gave you some good advice. What does Michael say, have you asked him? You surprise me, I didn't know temperatures got that low in Thailand, certainly not when I've been there. I seasonal problem? - and should it be over soon until next year? Maybe if you can survive the next couple of weeks you'll have time to find a good solution. Meanwhile, pre-heating? - it sounds like you need something like a really big VEG-Therm. See http://www.biofuels.ca/ Or a tank heater. Possible? Regards Keith (Do you have any photographs of the locomotive, Gumpon?) Dear Keith Attached is the picture of the locomotive that operated daily from Hatyai District (South of Thailand) to Sugaikolok district (Thailand-Malaysia border) , the distance is 214 km. Gumpon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
Attached below are some things to look at from my hard drive. If you do a google search using wax inhibitors diesel, you will find a great deal of information. Dom Amato IRG1, February 27 at 4PM, MRL Room 2053, Professor Jeffrey L. Hutter Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada Control of Crystallization by Kinetic Inhibitors Kinetic inhibitors are additives that affect crystallization kinetics by adsorbing to the surfaces of growing crystals, without altering thermodynamic properties such as the melting point. In addition to slowing the overall rate of crystallization, inhibitors that bond preferentially to specific crystal faces are able to control crystal morphology. Since they act at the surface of the crystal, apparently by blocking step flow, inhibitors are effective at exceedingly small concentrations - their effect has been measured at mole fractions as low as 10-9. This opportunity to control crystallization rates and crystal morphology has led to the development of tailor-made additives for many systems of commercial interest. For instance, the petroleum industry uses polymeric additives to prevent the formation of gas-hydrates in pipelines and to prevent precipitation of wax from diesel fuels. We are studying such additives in model n-alkane systems. We find that the presence of the polymer dramatically alters the growth morphology of the wax: rather than the usual plate-like growth, we see forms with all of the attributes of spherulites typical of bulk polymer growth. Since models for spherulitic growth postulate lamellar alignment by entropic pressure due to dangling polymer chains, the surface-adsorbed polymers are likely responsible for the similar alignment in wax spherulites. Under certain conditions, we see oscillatory growth resulting in well-defined bands. We are modeling this effect as a coupling between the wax diffusion field and the dynamics of additive adsorption. http://www.mrl.ucsb.edu/mrl/events/seminars/show_seminar.php?key=1014854400Hutter - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] (no subject) Dear Dom Amato, Can you elaborate somewhat more on this. I've already seen several research papers stating that the 'normal' available additives for dino-diesel do little or nothing for Biodiesel. On the other hand, there are a few commercial products available which claim to to the thing for BioD. I'm making my BioD based on animal fat (WVO), so I only can use a mixture of dino and BIO-Diesel to get the needed lower gelpoint. So I would very much be intrested in any solution to lower the gelpoint without dino-diesel, prefferably in a reliable, cheap and... homemade(?) way. Thnks, Filip = Original Message From biofuel@yahoogroups.com = You might consider one of the wax crystal inhibitors used as an additive for diesel fuel. It doesn't take much but they drop the wax point of diesel fuels. It should work for these fuels. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: gumpon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Basic Technical Data for Diesel FuelsBasic
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
You might consider one of the wax crystal inhibitors used as an additive for diesel fuel. It doesn't take much but they drop the wax point of diesel fuels. It should work for these fuels. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: gumpon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] (no subject)
Dear Dom Amato, Can you elaborate somewhat more on this. I've already seen several research papers stating that the 'normal' available additives for dino-diesel do little or nothing for Biodiesel. On the other hand, there are a few commercial products available which claim to to the thing for BioD. I'm making my BioD based on animal fat (WVO), so I only can use a mixture of dino and BIO-Diesel to get the needed lower gelpoint. So I would very much be intrested in any solution to lower the gelpoint without dino-diesel, prefferably in a reliable, cheap and... homemade(?) way. Thnks, Filip = Original Message From biofuel@yahoogroups.com = You might consider one of the wax crystal inhibitors used as an additive for diesel fuel. It doesn't take much but they drop the wax point of diesel fuels. It should work for these fuels. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: gumpon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: palm oil biodiesel in Thailand - was [biofuel] (no subject)
Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Dear Gumpon Sorry, I haven't been around much the last day or so. I think Ken gave you some good advice. What does Michael say, have you asked him? You surprise me, I didn't know temperatures got that low in Thailand, certainly not when I've been there. I seasonal problem? - and should it be over soon until next year? Maybe if you can survive the next couple of weeks you'll have time to find a good solution. Meanwhile, pre-heating? - it sounds like you need something like a really big VEG-Therm. See http://www.biofuels.ca/ Or a tank heater. Possible? Regards Keith (Do you have any photographs of the locomotive, Gumpon?) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] (no subject)
You might take a look at this page for information on Oils and esters characteristics. It gives the different melting points of various oils http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html -Original Message- From: gumpon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Dear Keith I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin, crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy ( this might come from some of the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester to run the locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the ambient temperature droped especially during the night. Regards Gumpon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
PRERe the wcd, could the proceedings not be published on the net; even here on this site,and now to change the subject slightly does anyone have any information about the possible ways of cleaning and using waste engine oil as fuel? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Making biodiesel - was Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
Not in a financial position to start manufaturing it ... though I'd take on anyone willing to invite me over to his home an watch him make it. It sounds like a cool thing to watch... if not make for oneself. Curtis Hi Curtis Financial position? If you drove a diesel you'd be in a financial position to start manufacturing it. Say making it rather, sounds less industrial. (Though manufacture means make by hand, literally - hey, my Latin's rusty!) You can set up a 55-gallon processor for about $60 and up, much less if you salvage, and the fuel would cost you about 60c a gallon. So it would make you money, or at least save you money, not cost you money. Making it for sale is a different ballgame, but maybe not that different, depends how you set about it. Have a look at this: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html Biodiesel processors Best Keith --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you take us up on it and start making biofuels, that's a great contribution, = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
J-L said This is one of my rare postings to this list, I believe that I speak for all the lurkers out there that we appreciate the people who go to great lengths to educate and enlighten us. Thank you... I second that erik Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
J-L said This is one of my rare postings to this list, I believe that I speak for all the lurkers out there that we appreciate the people who go to great lengths to educate and enlighten us. Thank you... I second that erik :-) Who gets to say Thanks? Can I speak for the whole list and say Thanks? Lurkers, by the way, are most welcome. If you have anything to offer please do so, but you certainly aren't obliged to contribute. If you take us up on it and start making biofuels, that's a great contribution, but you aren't obliged to do that either. Nor anything. Best wishes Keith Moderator Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
Not in a financial position to start manufaturing it ... though I'd take on anyone willing to invite me over to his home an watch him make it. It sounds like a cool thing to watch... if not make for oneself. Curtis --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you take us up on it and start making biofuels, that's a great contribution, = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] off subject
I am not one to complain as a rule but really Keith can't we call a halt to all the you said, I said nonsense? I truly enjoy a good debate on a relevant subject when the debators seem to have an adequate grasp of the information needed to continue, but at the moment the entire site seems dominated with pure unadulerated horse shit. Pardon my french but it gets boring and very distracting. thanks gaw Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/wlyPtD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] off subject
I am not one to complain as a rule but really Keith can't we call a halt to all the you said, I said nonsense? I truly enjoy a good debate on a relevant subject when the debators seem to have an adequate grasp of the information needed to continue, but at the moment the entire site seems dominated with pure unadulerated horse shit. Pardon my french but it gets boring and very distracting. thanks gaw So what would you like me to do about it Gaw? The guy will be back with more BS. Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/O3jeVD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
how much ? let me know gino robustelli [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
A few books on the subject of biogas: A Chinese Biogas Manual ed. Ariane van Buren Uses diagrams and pictures to shiow how the basic design of the biogas pit can be adapted for construction in different soils, from sandstone to sheer rock, which should encourage developing countries to embark on their own biogas programmes. ISBN 0 90303 165 5 Running a biogas programme: A handbook by David Fulford (one of my ex tutors) Describes the designs and uses of biogas plants, with technical appendices, for domestic and community plants. Likely economic and social effects of biogas programmes are described from experience, and advice given in the problems of management. ISBN 0 94668 849 4 These and others on the same subject can be ordered through: http://www.itpubs.org.uk David Teal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
Lonny, You can find a manual on how to build a low cost polyethylene biogas plant at the following address: http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydig.htm You can find another manual for a polyethylene tubular biodigester here: http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodig/manual.htm Please keep us posted on how long you keep getting flamable gas. Juan C. Bobeda Lonny Klinkebiel wrote: Stephen I should have given a better explaination. I have cut the end out of the barrell. That is how we filled it with the cow manure straw mix. We then topped it with water to displace the air. The 45 gal garbage bag is fitted to the top of the barrel like a stocking hat and held in place with two rubber bands made from a tractor inner tube. My discharge hose is a piece of plastic tubing taped into the corner of the bag and capped. This digester is sitting on three concrete blocks with a heat lamp under it, the barrel is also wrapped with fiberglass insulation. The system has been producing methane for about ten days. The first couple of bags of gas were not flamable, probabley mostly co2 as you said, however for the last ten days it has been making a gas that burns so I am assuming that it is methane. The purpose of my experment was to prove to myself if this would work. As a farmer I have all the resources available to make methane, but I read an article that 50 to 60 percent of the digesters built were failures. So my objective was to keep my expenses as close to zero as possible. Since my last post I replaced the bag and added a little water, it is now making a flamable gas. I usually burn it off in the morning and evening. I wish that I would have weighed the barrel of poop, but I would have had to haul it to town and weighed it at the elavator scales, and I'm afraid they might have had me committed for that. lol Seriously though my goal is to make a trench type digester, but I want to keep it as simple as possible. That is why I used such a high ratio of solids to liquid. I am thinking more along the lines of a batch filled digester, or maybe making two so that one could be in production while you cleaned out the other one. My reasonung for the high solids would be to have it like a landfill. I realize that it would need to be lined and covered but if it will make methane without agitation then the digester could be just a lined trench. It will be interesting to see how many more days my barrell will keep making gas and I am especially interested to see how much and what kind of sludge is left when it quits. Lonny Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
check out http://www.webconx.com/methane.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (no subject) A few books on the subject of biogas: A Chinese Biogas Manual ed. Ariane van Buren Uses diagrams and pictures to shiow how the basic design of the biogas pit can be adapted for construction in different soils, from sandstone to sheer rock, which should encourage developing countries to embark on their own biogas programmes. ISBN 0 90303 165 5 Running a biogas programme: A handbook by David Fulford (one of my ex tutors) Describes the designs and uses of biogas plants, with technical appendices, for domestic and community plants. Likely economic and social effects of biogas programmes are described from experience, and advice given in the problems of management. ISBN 0 94668 849 4 These and others on the same subject can be ordered through: http://www.itpubs.org.uk David Teal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (no subject)
Stephen I should have given a better explaination. I have cut the end out of the barrell. That is how we filled it with the cow manure straw mix. We then topped it with water to displace the air. The 45 gal garbage bag is fitted to the top of the barrel like a stocking hat and held in place with two rubber bands made from a tractor inner tube. My discharge hose is a piece of plastic tubing taped into the corner of the bag and capped. This digester is sitting on three concrete blocks with a heat lamp under it, the barrel is also wrapped with fiberglass insulation. The system has been producing methane for about ten days. The first couple of bags of gas were not flamable, probabley mostly co2 as you said, however for the last ten days it has been making a gas that burns so I am assuming that it is methane. The purpose of my experment was to prove to myself if this would work. As a farmer I have all the resources available to make methane, but I read an article that 50 to 60 percent of the digesters built were failures. So my objective was to keep my expenses as close to zero as possible. Since my last post I replaced the bag and added a little water, it is now making a flamable gas. I usually burn it off in the morning and evening. I wish that I would have weighed the barrel of poop, but I would have had to haul it to town and weighed it at the elavator scales, and I'm afraid they might have had me committed for that. lol Seriously though my goal is to make a trench type digester, but I want to keep it as simple as possible. That is why I used such a high ratio of solids to liquid. I am thinking more along the lines of a batch filled digester, or maybe making two so that one could be in production while you cleaned out the other one. My reasonung for the high solids would be to have it like a landfill. I realize that it would need to be lined and covered but if it will make methane without agitation then the digester could be just a lined trench. It will be interesting to see how many more days my barrell will keep making gas and I am especially interested to see how much and what kind of sludge is left when it quits. Lonny Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
not sure what dripping is, but tallow and lard can be used. -- Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax If we don't believe in freedom of speech for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all. -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@egroups.com Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 7:44 AM Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Hi lists Its Jonathan still looking at alternative fuels. A bloke from Atlantic Energy has just told me that dripping has to be landfilled in the UK. Does anyone know if it can be turned into biodiesel or can it be heated to use in an engine with elsbetts technology. Maybe lard and tallow would work aswell. Jonathan -- -- -- -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! 1. Fill in the brief application 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR http://click.egroups.com/1/6628/5/_/837408/_/963620468/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
it's lye. not baking soda. -- Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax If we don't believe in freedom of speech for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all. -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@egroups.com Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 10:20 AM Subject: [biofuel] (no subject) Where do you get a small amount of sodium hydroxide from Is it the same as baking soda or something / has it got an alternative name. Jonathan -- -- -- -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! 1. Fill in the brief application 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR http://click.egroups.com/1/6630/5/_/837408/_/963620510/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
If you use tallow and lard does the resultant mixture become liquid. Also Stephen I may have posted something in error about elsbetts technology. I didnt think they used heat but their website says they can use any fat. If its solid they must use heat i would guess. Jonathan Experience MSN... Get 1 FREE* month of unlimited Internet access! http://click.egroups.com/1/6323/5/_/837408/_/963653347/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
Another question guys now I know what to use as a catalyst where can I easily get methanol. Is it the same as methylated spirit. Jonathan Get great brand name shoes with just the click of a mouse. Check out the huge selection at Zappos.com, the Web's Most Popular Store! http://click.egroups.com/1/6994/5/_/837408/_/963656064/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [biofuel] (no subject)
tallow and lard have to be heated in order to react with the lye and methanol, the esters produced are liquid. -- Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax If we don't believe in freedom of speech for people who we disagree with, we don't believe in it at all. -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@egroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (no subject) If you use tallow and lard does the resultant mixture become liquid. Also Stephen I may have posted something in error about elsbetts technology. I didnt think they used heat but their website says they can use any fat. If its solid they must use heat i would guess. Jonathan -- -- -- -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To email plain text is conventional, to add graphics is divine. We'll show you how at www.supersig.com. http://click.egroups.com/1/6808/5/_/837408/_/963662006/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
