Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Biafra? http://snipurl.com/pimc Biafra: A People Betrayed - An Essay on Biafra by Kurt Vonnegut Eliot worried whether Kipling was a poet or a just a versifier. A truly Prufrockian observation. Too many coffee spoons I'd guess. I quite like The Wasteland, and the Four Quartets I guess, but I don't like Eliot. He was a talented editor though, that was a golden era at Faber Faber. Wasn't Eliot involved with the Cliveden Set? Didn't he accuse Hitler of making anti-semitism unfashionable or something? Much appreciated your backgrounder on Milner et al. I've saved it for further rumination at leisure. I was going to say a bit more about that but it turns out to need more cobbling together than I thought. And Pears Soap as an easer of the White Man's Burden? Keri could hear me chortling from the other end of the house and came racing in to share the joke. I told her with a straight face that we use racist soap - and proved it by showing her the ad. Thanks for making my day. I'm not sure who should thank whom, it made my day too, it's a classic. Bob. PS: Your mention of South Africa's A-bomb test stirred a memory. I went back to the bookshelf and found it, on page 61 of Dr Richard Mueller's Nemesis, the Death Star (Weidenfeld and Nicolson, New York 1988). Mueller at that time was Professor of Physics at Berkely and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkely Laboratory. The book is an account of how he came to prove his theory of repeat extinctions of species throughout earth's geological history and their cause, an orbiting star with a periodicity of some 65 million years. On page 61 Mueller states - in citing various jobs he had done for the US government that year: Frank Press asked me to be on a special committee to investigate a report that South Africa had tested a nuclear weapon. (We were able to show that they had not made such a test). (Mueller's brackets). :-) I think I'll stick to my version though. Thanks Bob. All best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification Hi Bob ... I once posed for a picture (fully clothed I hasten to add) in Rhodes bath, a massive Victorian monstrosity in his Rondebosch mansion, and reflected how times had changed. The house was then occupied by one John Vorster whom I was there to interview. Groote Schuur was my great grandfather's house. Or rather it was the family farm. It stretched from where Groote Schuur hospital is now at one end to the university at the other end. That was Abraham de Smidt. He was the Surveyor-General of the Cape, and a fine water-colourist, still well-known at Sotheby's and well-priced too. (My grandfather said his father was a cantankerous old swine, LOL!) Abraham built the gardens, Rhodes probably prettied them up and extended them, and added the monstrosity bath. Abraham sold the house and the farm to Rhodes in the late 1890s, for which we never quite forgave him. Rhodes later gave it to the government, and we didn't think that was such a good idea either, we didn't like people like BJ Vorster living there, not that it was any of our business anymore. Abraham wouldn't have welcomed him either. You'd have been right welcome though. :-) Not quite sure what Abraham would've thought of Nelson Mandela living at Groote Schuur, but I thought it was great! Fortunately I never had to see Vorster at Groote Schuur, it was at the Pretoria residence at Bryntirion instead, along with Ian Smith. I really enjoyed that, the company was attacked by a swarm of wild bees, it's a wonderful thing to see prime ministers fleeing for their lives for a change. A couple of years later I had to go to Vorster's daughter's wedding and IIRC the reception was at Groote Schuur but I didn't go to the reception. Milner's kindergarten and Milner's Round Table were not the same, though there was some overlap. The kindergarten died off, not so sure about the Round Table. The kindergarten morphed into the Cliveden Set centred at the Astors' country pile and didn't survive the accusations of upper-class appeasement before WW2 when they tried to influence British policy towards friendly relations with Germany. I lived in Milner's headquarters in Johannesburg when I first worked there, a large old pile behind the Sunnyside Park hotel named Milnerloo. It was up for redevelopment so we had it as a communal house shared by a bunch of young reporters for just about nothing. I used to listen for echoes sometimes but I don't think I heard any. Milner's kindergarten were the bright young upper-class British technocrats Milner brought in to reconstruct the economy following the Boer War. Later as you say South Africans fought alongside the Brits in the trenches of WW1, but that hardly tells the story of what happened after the Boer War. It wasn't quite that Milner and his brats healed the Boer/Brit divide. See any
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
. It was a prescient remark. Barely 20 years later I saw a news picture of Nelson Mandela sitting on that verandah. And, I can't quite swear to this, it looked like the same damn chair. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification Hi Bob Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. Did you know that Kipling was a founder member of Milner's Round Table? The back-room of all back-rooms, darling of the conspiracy theorists, whatever would they have to talk about over tea otherwise. It was founded by Rhodes and Milner, along with Kipling, Maurice Hankey, Arthur Balfour, Lord Rothschild et al, American members Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Warburg... There were several responses to Kipling's White Man's Burden. Here's one: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1903blackburden.html Edward Morel: Black Man's Burden 1903 Another: http://www.swans.com/library/art8/xxx074.html The Brown Man's Burden, by Henry Labouchère - 1899 Another: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5476/ The Black Man's Burden: A Response to Kipling Best Keith The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man's Burden - In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit, And work another's gain. Take up the White Man's Burden, The savage wars of peace - Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought, Watch Sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hope to nought. Take up the White Man's Burden - No tawdry rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper - The tale of common things, The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go make them with your living, And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man's Burden - And reap his old reward: The blame of those ye better, And the hate of those ye guard - The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah slowly) towards the light:- Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night? Take up the White Man's Burden- Ye dare not stoop to less - Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloak your weariness; By all ye cry or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples Shall weigh your Gods and you. Take up your White Man's Burden - Have done with childish days - The lightly proffered laurel, The easy, ungrudged praise. Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years, Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgement of your peers! Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little clarification Rudtard Kipling is rolling is his grave but William Easterly probably approves of pretty much everything you've said. Michael Redler wrote: I just wanted to chime in here. Keith wrote: It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. It's also too common to see a reactionary restriction of expression, screening all posts before distribution (for example). This forum proves that a loose framework is very effective at maintaining individual freedoms while allowing it's membership to participate in maintaining continuity. Kim: I read some of your posts and couldn't help notice the similarities between your views and the ideology driving the White Man's Burden. Maybe it's time to rethink the ideals to which we, in the US, have been indoctrinated. Maybe it's a good time to question the perceived credibility and legacy left behind by people like McCarthy and accept the fact that it's not acceptable to steer the culture, economy and government of another country simply because you feel you're
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Hi Keith, I'm sure you misunderstood the thread. I went back and had a look. It definitely says a little more clarification. You didn't just reply, you swamped me with several hours reading and chasing of urls linked to urls linked to... :) Anyway, you get the picture. Knocked out by the revelation of your family connection to Groote Schuur. I'd be eating my heart out if it were me. As it was I found the house and garden highly evocative, soaked in an ambience of something not quite definable other than the very powerful feel that real people had coped with some very real and major issues there. An item I didn't include in my last post was the Nat Party junket at the house which featured the very public release of another of those glossy spindoctoring brochures about South Africa. The Minister of Information (yes, the very same who presided over the Information scandal) decided to make it a big event with foreign and local press, plus as many members of the cabinet and their wives as he could assemble. He chose the main hall at Groote Schuur, lined it with the notables, placed we scruffier sprigs of the Fourth Estate furthest from the bar and launched into his spin. My attention wandered slightly. Something at the edge of my peripheral vision was bothering me. I focused. It was Cecil himself, in that famous Cape painting, staring down from the wall at the far end. He was looking directly at the speaker's back with such an expression of outrage that I snorted loudly, nudged the journo next to me who passed on the joke. Soon half the press corp was snorting and giggling, so much so that the Speaker stopped and stared us into silence. I quickly shot a pic with a vague idea of working a satirical angle into the story. I kid you not, when the darkroom boys later send the pic down to the newsroom there was none of the quality my imagination had imbued. Rhodes was not even looking at the speaker and his expression was as lugubrious as ever. So much for mindset. Thanks for the Orwell piece, some interesting points raised though I've always thought if he'd got himself laid more we could have been spared his excursions into literary criticism. He made one important point about Kipling's work: while the Rudyards have long ceased from Kipling and the Haggards ride no more his epigrammatic phrases still sprinkle the language while the critics have been forgotten. Eliot worried whether Kipling was a poet or a just a versifier. A truly Prufrockian observation. Too many coffee spoons I'd guess. Much appreciated your backgrounder on Milner et al. I've saved it for further rumination at leisure. And Pears Soap as an easer of the White Man's Burden? Keri could hear me chortling from the other end of the house and came racing in to share the joke. I told her with a straight face that we use racist soap - and proved it by showing her the ad. Thanks for making my day. Bob. PS: Your mention of South Africa's A-bomb test stirred a memory. I went back to the bookshelf and found it, on page 61 of Dr Richard Mueller's Nemesis, the Death Star (Weidenfeld and Nicolson, New York 1988). Mueller at that time was Professor of Physics at Berkely and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkely Laboratory. The book is an account of how he came to prove his theory of repeat extinctions of species throughout earth's geological history and their cause, an orbiting star with a periodicity of some 65 million years. On page 61 Mueller states - in citing various jobs he had done for the US government that year: Frank Press asked me to be on a special committee to investigate a report that South Africa had tested a nuclear weapon. (We were able to show that they had not made such a test). (Mueller's brackets). - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification Hi Bob ... I once posed for a picture (fully clothed I hasten to add) in Rhodes bath, a massive Victorian monstrosity in his Rondebosch mansion, and reflected how times had changed. The house was then occupied by one John Vorster whom I was there to interview. Groote Schuur was my great grandfather's house. Or rather it was the family farm. It stretched from where Groote Schuur hospital is now at one end to the university at the other end. That was Abraham de Smidt. He was the Surveyor-General of the Cape, and a fine water-colourist, still well-known at Sotheby's and well-priced too. (My grandfather said his father was a cantankerous old swine, LOL!) Abraham built the gardens, Rhodes probably prettied them up and extended them, and added the monstrosity bath. Abraham sold the house and the farm to Rhodes in the late 1890s, for which we never quite forgave him. Rhodes later gave it to the government, and we didn't think that was such a good idea either, we didn't like people like BJ Vorster living there, not that it was any
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Google: white mans burden and William Easterly... Michael Redler wrote: When you Google white mans burden, you simply end up with a list of acts committed in the name of...which has grown since Rudyard. Today, the motives for hegemony are hidden and given names designed to confuse people (i.e. humanitarian intervention). Those who are most confused, swallow this crap hook, line and sinker. We have to help them. We have to save them. We have to... Even when they don't want our help or worse, they suffer from it, we continue for their own good. Mike */Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Hi Bob Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. Did you know that Kipling was a founder member of Milner's Round Table? The back-room of all back-rooms, darling of the conspiracy theorists, whatever would they have to talk about over tea otherwise. It was founded by Rhodes and Milner, along with Kipling, Maurice Hankey, Arthur Balfour, Lord Rothschild et al, American members Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Warburg... There were several responses to Kipling's White Man's Burden. Here's one: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1903blackburden.html Edward Morel: Black Man's Burden 1903 Another: http://www.swans.com/library/art8/xxx074.html The Brown Man's Burden, by Henry Labouchère - 1899 Another: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5476/ The Black Man's Burden: A Response to Kipling Best Keith The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man's Burden - In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit, And work another's gain. Take up the White Man's Burden, The savage wars of peace - Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought, Watch Sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hope to nought. Take up the White Man's Burden - No tawdry rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper - The tale of common things, The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go make them with your living, And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man's Burden - And reap his old reward: The blame of those ye better, And the hate of those ye guard - The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah slowly) towards the light:- Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night? Take up the White Man's Burden- Ye dare not stoop to less - Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloak your weariness; By all ye cry or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples Shall weigh your Gods and you. Take up your White Man's Burden - Have done with childish days - The lightly proffered laurel, The easy, ungrudged praise. Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years, Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgement of your peers! Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little clarification Rudtard Kipling is rolling is his grave but William Easterly probably approves of pretty much everything you've said. Michael Redler wrote: I just wanted to chime in here. Keith wrote: It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. It's also too common to see a reactionary restriction of expression, screening all posts before distribution (for example). This forum proves that a loose framework is very effective at maintaining individual freedoms while allowing it's membership to participate in maintaining continuity. Kim: I read some of your posts and couldn't help notice the similarities between your views and the ideology driving the White Man's Burden. Maybe it's time to rethink the ideals to which we, in the US, have been indoctrinated. Maybe it's a good time to question the perceived credibility and legacy left behind by people like McCarthy and accept the fact that it's not acceptable to steer the culture, economy and government of another country simply because you feel you're better. You wrote: Our right to determine the direction of our life today is unparalleled in human history. So, Babylon, Ancient Greece, etc. don't count. The Magna Carta was just a piece of paper (if I can borrow an expression from our president). There have been and are, better examples of democracy in human history than the republic we Americans pretend to push on others in the process of building an empire. Do some research on our
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Google: white mans burden and William Easterly... Definitely. Some people have been saying some of those things for a long time, including me, and I think you Mike. William Easterly's not the first and not alone, a lot of other bright people have worked on these problems. It's not that there's any lack of effective ways of doing it. The trouble is that aid donors and aid programs don't always think the ways that work well are effective. From previous: A US government website boasts that the principal beneficiary of America's foreign assistance programs has always been the United States. Close to 80% of the US Agency for International Development's contracts and grants go directly to American firms. I can't find that website anymore, but the fact remains, even if the website doesn't. Not just the US. Also: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg53517.html [Biofuel] Bushfood http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39994.html Re: [Biofuel] US Foreign aid Food Dumping [Aid] Maintains Poverty http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39995.html [Biofuel] Myth: More US aid will help the hungry http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg37069.html [biofuel] 12 Myths About Hunger William Easterly talks of the toll of malaria and the cost of insecticide-treated mosquito nets, indeed so, but why the DDT? What happened to K.I.S.S. anyway? Just mosquito nets work well. Those guys sure worked that little marketing opportunity effectively. Now everybody wants DDT too, and if you don't like it you're condemning millions of poor Africans to death with your econazi views. Same as dumping GMOs in famine areas. And so on. The confusing names do the rest. Weapons of mass starvation. Best Keith We have to help them. We have to save them. We have to... Michael Redler wrote: When you Google white mans burden, you simply end up with a list of acts committed in the name of...which has grown since Rudyard. Today, the motives for hegemony are hidden and given names designed to confuse people (i.e. humanitarian intervention). Those who are most confused, swallow this crap hook, line and sinker. We have to help them. We have to save them. We have to... Even when they don't want our help or worse, they suffer from it, we continue for their own good. Mike */Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Hi Keith, Thanks for those urls, and the reminder about Milner, Cecil John and his financier mates. Point taken but off the point of which more in a moment. I once posed for a picture (fully clothed I hasten to add) in Rhodes bath, a massive Victorian monstrosity in his Rondebosch mansion, and reflected how times had changed. The house was then occupied by one John Vorster whom I was there to interview. Nattering aside, I didn't come to praise Rudyard, I came to bury him within his context. He lived in a time of empire. Within that narrow ken he held fast to basic human values still extant today. Nothing much to argue with in lines such as Fill full the mouth of famine/And bid the sickness cease nor in By open speech and simple/An hundred times made plain/ To seek another's profit/And work another's gain. His poem was aimed at Americans who were then making their first major imperial venture. His hope was that he could deflect them from errors made long before by Imperial Britain. His hope was vain, but well expressed. He was a gadfly to imperialists, anti-war to the core and all too conscious of the transience of human achievement. His Recessional of 1897, written at the height of empire, scandalised the establishment. The Widow's Party, an anti-war poem about the Widow of Windsor (Queen Victoria), ensured that he would never be offered the post of Poet Laureate. (Forgive my childish enthusiasms, I've been a Kipling freak since I first read If at school and then went on to research his work at varsity. ). As for Milner and his kindergarten of little bureaucrats, again context please. He was sent out to do a job. South Africa, after three years of a ruinous war was a disaster area, and not just for the Boers. It was the Brits greatest public relations disaster in the history of their empire, one from which they never recovered and which eventually destroyed the Tories. Milner was told to fix it. He did what any man of vision would do, he looked around for men of substance, the movers and shakers, the deal makers and the button pressers, and brought them on board. His success in healing the Boer/Brit divide and getting the shattered economy up and running only became apparent a decade or so later in World War One when Boer and Brit fought side by side. After the interview with Vorster, he told me his grandfather had ridden in the commando that bottled up Rhodes for some months in Kimberley during the Boer War. We were sitting on that magnificent verandah at Groote Schuur, looking out across the incredible gardens that Rhodes had created. I asked if he felt any sense of triumph or achievement. He laughed and said: Interview over, but off the record, it doesn't do to boast. Certainly not in Africa. Who knows who will be sitting here in 20 years time. It was a prescient remark. Barely 20 years later I saw a news picture of Nelson Mandela sitting on that verandah. And, I can't quite swear to this, it looked like the same damn chair. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification Hi Bob Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. Did you know that Kipling was a founder member of Milner's Round Table? The back-room of all back-rooms, darling of the conspiracy theorists, whatever would they have to talk about over tea otherwise. It was founded by Rhodes and Milner, along with Kipling, Maurice Hankey, Arthur Balfour, Lord Rothschild et al, American members Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Warburg... There were several responses to Kipling's White Man's Burden. Here's one: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1903blackburden.html Edward Morel: Black Man's Burden 1903 Another: http://www.swans.com/library/art8/xxx074.html The Brown Man's Burden, by Henry Labouchère - 1899 Another: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5476/ The Black Man's Burden: A Response to Kipling Best Keith The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man's Burden - In patience to abide, To veil the threat
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Hi y'all, I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity for humour) at the misnomer we have made of his White Man's Burden. Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived and wrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few ground rules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits of the age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 in response to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was that Americans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power. Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the present debacle in Iraq. The actual words are: Take up the White Man's Burden - Send forth the best ye breed - Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captive's need; To wait in heavy harness On fluttered folk and wild - Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man's Burden - In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit, And work another's gain. Take up the White Man's Burden, The savage wars of peace - Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought, Watch Sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hope to nought. Take up the White Man's Burden - No tawdry rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper - The tale of common things, The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go make them with your living, And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man's Burden - And reap his old reward: The blame of those ye better, And the hate of those ye guard - The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah slowly) towards the light:- Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night? Take up the White Man's Burden- Ye dare not stoop to less - Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloak your weariness; By all ye cry or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples Shall weigh your Gods and you. Take up your White Man's Burden - Have done with childish days - The lightly proffered laurel, The easy, ungrudged praise. Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years, Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgement of your peers! Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A little clarification Rudtard Kipling is rolling is his grave but William Easterly probably approves of pretty much everything you've said. Michael Redler wrote: I just wanted to chime in here. Keith wrote: It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. It's also too common to see a reactionary restriction of expression, screening all posts before distribution (for example). This forum proves that a loose framework is very effective at maintaining individual freedoms while allowing it's membership to participate in maintaining continuity. Kim: I read some of your posts and couldn't help notice the similarities between your views and the ideology driving the White Man's Burden. Maybe it's time to rethink the ideals to which we, in the US, have been indoctrinated. Maybe it's a good time to question the perceived credibility and legacy left behind by people like McCarthy and accept the fact that it's not acceptable to steer the culture, economy and government of another country simply because you feel you're better. You wrote: Our right to determine the direction of our life today is unparalleled in human history. So, Babylon, Ancient Greece, etc. don't count. The Magna Carta was just a piece of paper (if I can borrow an expression from our president). There have been and are, better examples of democracy in human history than the republic we Americans pretend to push on others in the process of building an empire. Do some research on our Constitution and it's origins. It will lead you in a few directions - one of which is toward the Iroquois nation. Ask an Iroquois about their right to determine their life - if you can find one. You talk about the reassignment of land for the greater good but conveniently under emphasize the eradication of those people in the process of fulfilling that illusion. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hello Kim Greetings, I do believe that many people on this list don't read real well. I think you're relying on it. No doubt a new subject-title and dumping all the evidence helps. The ones who disagree with you read quite well though. The un-keyhole view is of Kim trying to backpedal her way up a pedestal, in defiance of the laws of
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Whenyou Google "white mans burden", you simply end up with alist of acts committed in the name of...which has grown since Rudyard.Today, the motives for hegemony are hidden and given names designed to confuse people (i.e. "humanitarian intervention").Those who are most confused, swallow this crap hook, line and sinker."We have to help them." "We have to save them." "We have to..."Even when "they" don't want our help or worse, "they" suffer from it, we continue for "their" own good.MikeBob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi y'all,I'd say Rudyard was laughing (he had a great capacity forhumour) at the misnomer we have made of his "White Man's Burden".Judging out of context is like shooting fish in a barrel. Kipling lived andwrote in a time of Empire, and what he was trying to do was set a few groundrules within the context of Empire. For their time, and within the limits ofthe age, the rules had merit. His White Man's Burden was written in 1899 inresponse to the American invasion of the Philippines. His hope was thatAmericans would be humble in their might and sparing of their use of power.Written more than a century ago, it is eerily prescient of the presentdebacle in Iraq.The actual words are:Take up the White Man's Burden -Send forth the best ye breed -Go bind your sons to exileTo serve your captive's need;To wait in heavy harnessOn fluttered folk and wild -Your new-caught sullen peoples,Half devil and half child.[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
