Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

2007-01-02 Thread Kirk McLoren 
yes, they are out of control and they are fearful -thus the desire for the 
security state.
  we are ruled by nutters
   
  Kirk

Luke Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  It's disappointing to see this kind of implementation
of domestic spying smoothly masked by environmental
concern. Yes Kirk, you have a legitimate point, but
christ, a tracking device...that you have to pay for!

In Washington state we passed a measure where an
additional vehicle registration fee is assesed based
on vehicle weight. The more you weigh, the more you
pay. Relatively simple...although it doesn't make up
for irregular vehicle usage...but on the other hand,
"the man" doesn't know where you are in real time.

I do laud the brit's efforts to minimize driving and
driving-related pollution, but this certainly isn't
the way that I think is best to implement it. Plus,
c'mon, George Orwell would be rolling over in his
grave if he knew about this.

Isn't it enough that you can't protest directly in
front of government buildings in the UK anymore? Hell,
maybe I should just stop being such an old-fashioned
luddite, but the future is beginning to look too much
like a science-fiction movie for my liking.

BTW, I'm all for mass-transit and bicycling...hell,
even walking for a change!




--- Kirk McLoren wrote:

> The major destroyer of roads in my region is over
> gross commercial vehicles during hot weather.
> Down by the potato plant they put grooves in the
> road in 6 weeks. Under proper loads that road lasts
> 15 years.
> Need more men with portable scales 
> or strain guages built into 18 wheeler trailers.
> 
> Kirk
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In the late 1980's I read a study by Pollution
> Probe of Toronto which
> calculated that if all costs incured by cars and
> their drivers were paid
> by a fuel tax, gasoline would cost $5 or $6 Canadian
> per Imperial gallon.
> Today it would be double that price. I recall that
> medical costs of
> accidents and the cost of policing (to prevent even
> worse carnage on the
> roads) were major components of the high cost of
> driving.
> 
> As I recall, these calculations did not include the
> high costs of urban
> infrastructure made necessary by sprawl to
> accomodate cars.
> 
> As James Howard Kunstler has pointed out, the car
> culture and the
> settlement patterns it has produced are so expensive
> to operate in a time
> of high-cost oil in declining supply, that their
> appalling costs will
> force a very painful change to a more rational
> transportation and
> settlement pattern. We wouldn't be in this desperate
> situation if it
> hadn't been for the political pressure of automotive
> welfare bums and the
> corporate interests and the politicians who pander
> to them.
> 
> Making drivers pay their way is the first step to
> economic rationality and
> a future that doesn't involve freezing in the dark.
> If you don't want Big
> Brother to know where you are, take the bus or the
> train. Air travelers
> have been dealing with this for years.
> 
> Doug Woodard
> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> > UK - Road tax - Government petition
> > From: Loren Brown
> >
> > Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
> > This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on
> > privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
> >
> > It was stated on the news this morning (27th
> > November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal
> > has been suggested was to raise money for
> > possible road building and improvements to
> > existing roads. It should be noted that all the
> > money currently collected by the DVLA for road
> > fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent
> > on road building and improvements!
> >
> > The government's proposal to introduce road
> > pricing will mean you having to purchase a
> > tracking device for your car and paying a monthly
> > bill to use it. The tracking device will cost
> > about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the
> > lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist
> > and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum
> > who used the car to take the kids to school paid
> > £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase
> > in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know
> > where you are at all times. They will also know
> > how fast you have been going, so even if you
> > accidentally creep over a speed limit you can
> > expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care
> > about our freedoms and stopping the constant
> > bashing of the car driver, please sign the
> > petition on No 10's new website, sign up here
> > 
> > Even if you don't have a car please feel free to
> forward this e-mail on.
> 
> 
> 
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
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> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
> archives (50,000 messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *#

2007-01-02 Thread dwoodard 
Fuel taxes hit everyone, people living in sparsely populated rural areas
as well as people living in densely populated cities.

If road use is the problem (and especially if it is a problem only at
certain times) then tax road use. That will be the most economically
efficient solution.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


> Dear DM,
>
> This must be a hoax.
>
> Any MP with half a brain would just add to the fuel tax to
> achieve this result.
>
> Redgards,
>
> Wendell



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Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *#

2007-01-02 Thread Derick Giorchino 
I feel the pain. Here in the states we pay 95 + cents on a gal where the
cost is $2.67 for regular. And here in California we have the worst road
conditions in the nation. This I have been told by long haul truckers. So
where is all the cash going? As far as freedom that’s a dead issue. I feel
the governments of the world have gotten to the point that we work for them
not the other way around. And that pisses me off to no end. But I think we
are all in a somewhat the same boat. The bio fuel movement is going strong
here but big brother is so involved in the big guys that the cost becomes
prohibitive for people to buy if they cant make there own. This should show
us how the almighty $ is s much more important than the polution
problem.   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:31 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *#

Dear DM,

This must be a hoax.

Any MP with half a brain would just add to the fuel tax to
achieve this result.

Redgards,

Wendell



>From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2007/01/01 Mon AM 07:04:19 CST
>To: 
>Subject: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

> UK - Road tax - Government petition
>From: Loren Brown
>
>Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
>This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on 
>privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
>
>It was stated on the news this morning (27th 
>November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal 
>has been suggested was to raise money for 
>possible road building and improvements to 
>existing roads. It should be noted that all the 
>money currently collected by the DVLA for road 
>fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent 
>on road building and improvements!
>
>The government's proposal to introduce road 
>pricing will mean you having to purchase a 
>tracking device for your car and paying a monthly 
>bill to use it. The tracking device will cost 
>about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the 
>lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist 
>and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum 
>who used the car to take the kids to school paid 
>£86 in one month. On top of this massive increase 
>in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know 
>where you are at all times. They will also know 
>how fast you have been going, so even if you 
>accidentally creep over a speed limit you can 
>expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care 
>about our freedoms and stopping the constant 
>bashing of the car driver, please sign the 
>petition on No 10's new website, sign up here 
><http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/>Even if you don't have a car please
feel free to forward this e-mail on.
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


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Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *#

2007-01-02 Thread yankeetrader 
Dear DM,

This must be a hoax.

Any MP with half a brain would just add to the fuel tax to
achieve this result.

Redgards,

Wendell



>From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2007/01/01 Mon AM 07:04:19 CST
>To: 
>Subject: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

> UK - Road tax - Government petition
>From: Loren Brown
>
>Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
>This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on 
>privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
>
>It was stated on the news this morning (27th 
>November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal 
>has been suggested was to raise money for 
>possible road building and improvements to 
>existing roads. It should be noted that all the 
>money currently collected by the DVLA for road 
>fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent 
>on road building and improvements!
>
>The government's proposal to introduce road 
>pricing will mean you having to purchase a 
>tracking device for your car and paying a monthly 
>bill to use it. The tracking device will cost 
>about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the 
>lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist 
>and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum 
>who used the car to take the kids to school paid 
>£86 in one month. On top of this massive increase 
>in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know 
>where you are at all times. They will also know 
>how fast you have been going, so even if you 
>accidentally creep over a speed limit you can 
>expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care 
>about our freedoms and stopping the constant 
>bashing of the car driver, please sign the 
>petition on No 10's new website, sign up here 
><http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/>Even if you don't have a car please 
>feel free to forward this e-mail on.
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


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Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

2007-01-02 Thread Luke Hansen 
It's disappointing to see this kind of implementation
of domestic spying smoothly masked by environmental
concern. Yes Kirk, you have a legitimate point, but
christ, a tracking device...that you have to pay for!

In Washington state we passed a measure where an
additional vehicle registration fee is assesed based
on vehicle weight. The more you weigh, the more you
pay. Relatively simple...although it doesn't make up
for irregular vehicle usage...but on the other hand,
"the man" doesn't know where you are in real time.

I do laud the brit's efforts to minimize driving and
driving-related pollution, but this certainly isn't
the way that I think is best to implement it. Plus,
c'mon, George Orwell would be rolling over in his
grave if he knew about this.

Isn't it enough that you can't protest directly in
front of government buildings in the UK anymore? Hell,
maybe I should just stop being such an old-fashioned
luddite, but the future is beginning to look too much
like a science-fiction movie for my liking.

BTW, I'm all for mass-transit and bicycling...hell,
even walking for a change!




--- Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The major destroyer of roads in my region is over
> gross commercial vehicles during hot weather.
>   Down by the potato plant they put grooves in the
> road in 6 weeks. Under proper loads that road lasts
> 15 years.
>   Need more men with portable scales 
>   or strain guages built into 18 wheeler trailers.
>
>   Kirk
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   In the late 1980's I read a study by Pollution
> Probe of Toronto which
> calculated that if all costs incured by cars and
> their drivers were paid
> by a fuel tax, gasoline would cost $5 or $6 Canadian
> per Imperial gallon.
> Today it would be double that price. I recall that
> medical costs of
> accidents and the cost of policing (to prevent even
> worse carnage on the
> roads) were major components of the high cost of
> driving.
> 
> As I recall, these calculations did not include the
> high costs of urban
> infrastructure made necessary by sprawl to
> accomodate cars.
> 
> As James Howard Kunstler has pointed out, the car
> culture and the
> settlement patterns it has produced are so expensive
> to operate in a time
> of high-cost oil in declining supply, that their
> appalling costs will
> force a very painful change to a more rational
> transportation and
> settlement pattern. We wouldn't be in this desperate
> situation if it
> hadn't been for the political pressure of automotive
> welfare bums and the
> corporate interests and the politicians who pander
> to them.
> 
> Making drivers pay their way is the first step to
> economic rationality and
> a future that doesn't involve freezing in the dark.
> If you don't want Big
> Brother to know where you are, take the bus or the
> train. Air travelers
> have been dealing with this for years.
> 
> Doug Woodard
> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> > UK - Road tax - Government petition
> > From: Loren Brown
> >
> > Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
> > This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on
> > privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
> >
> > It was stated on the news this morning (27th
> > November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal
> > has been suggested was to raise money for
> > possible road building and improvements to
> > existing roads. It should be noted that all the
> > money currently collected by the DVLA for road
> > fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent
> > on road building and improvements!
> >
> > The government's proposal to introduce road
> > pricing will mean you having to purchase a
> > tracking device for your car and paying a monthly
> > bill to use it. The tracking device will cost
> > about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the
> > lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist
> > and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum
> > who used the car to take the kids to school paid
> > £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase
> > in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know
> > where you are at all times. They will also know
> > how fast you have been going, so even if you
> > accidentally creep over a speed limit you can
> > expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care
> > about our freedoms and stopping the constant
> > bashing of the car driver, please sign the
> > petition on No 10's new website, sign up here
> > 
> > Even if you don't have a car please feel free to
> forward this e-mail on.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
> archives (50,000 messages):
>
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> 
> 
> 
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> Tired o

Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

2007-01-01 Thread Kirk McLoren 
The major destroyer of roads in my region is over gross commercial vehicles 
during hot weather.
  Down by the potato plant they put grooves in the road in 6 weeks. Under 
proper loads that road lasts 15 years.
  Need more men with portable scales 
  or strain guages built into 18 wheeler trailers.
   
  Kirk

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In the late 1980's I read a study by Pollution Probe of Toronto which
calculated that if all costs incured by cars and their drivers were paid
by a fuel tax, gasoline would cost $5 or $6 Canadian per Imperial gallon.
Today it would be double that price. I recall that medical costs of
accidents and the cost of policing (to prevent even worse carnage on the
roads) were major components of the high cost of driving.

As I recall, these calculations did not include the high costs of urban
infrastructure made necessary by sprawl to accomodate cars.

As James Howard Kunstler has pointed out, the car culture and the
settlement patterns it has produced are so expensive to operate in a time
of high-cost oil in declining supply, that their appalling costs will
force a very painful change to a more rational transportation and
settlement pattern. We wouldn't be in this desperate situation if it
hadn't been for the political pressure of automotive welfare bums and the
corporate interests and the politicians who pander to them.

Making drivers pay their way is the first step to economic rationality and
a future that doesn't involve freezing in the dark. If you don't want Big
Brother to know where you are, take the bus or the train. Air travelers
have been dealing with this for years.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



> UK - Road tax - Government petition
> From: Loren Brown
>
> Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
> This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on
> privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
>
> It was stated on the news this morning (27th
> November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal
> has been suggested was to raise money for
> possible road building and improvements to
> existing roads. It should be noted that all the
> money currently collected by the DVLA for road
> fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent
> on road building and improvements!
>
> The government's proposal to introduce road
> pricing will mean you having to purchase a
> tracking device for your car and paying a monthly
> bill to use it. The tracking device will cost
> about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the
> lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist
> and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum
> who used the car to take the kids to school paid
> £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase
> in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know
> where you are at all times. They will also know
> how fast you have been going, so even if you
> accidentally creep over a speed limit you can
> expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care
> about our freedoms and stopping the constant
> bashing of the car driver, please sign the
> petition on No 10's new website, sign up here
> 
> Even if you don't have a car please feel free to forward this e-mail on.



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Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

2007-01-01 Thread dwoodard 
In the late 1980's I read a study by Pollution Probe of Toronto which
calculated that if all costs incured by cars and their drivers were paid
by a fuel tax, gasoline would cost $5 or $6 Canadian per Imperial gallon.
Today it would be double that price. I recall that medical costs of
accidents and the cost of policing (to prevent even worse carnage on the
roads) were major components of the high cost of driving.

As I recall, these calculations did not include the high costs of urban
infrastructure made necessary by sprawl to accomodate cars.

As James Howard Kunstler has pointed out, the car culture and the
settlement patterns it has produced are so expensive to operate in a time
of high-cost oil in declining supply, that their appalling costs will
force a very painful change to a more rational transportation and
settlement pattern. We wouldn't be in this desperate situation if  it
hadn't been for the political pressure of automotive welfare bums and the
corporate interests and the politicians who pander to them.

Making drivers pay their way is the first step to economic rationality and
a future that doesn't involve freezing in the dark. If you don't want Big
Brother to know where you are, take the bus or the train. Air travelers
have been dealing with this for years.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



>  UK - Road tax - Government petition
> From: Loren Brown
>
> Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
> This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on
> privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!
>
> It was stated on the news this morning (27th
> November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal
> has been suggested was to raise money for
> possible road building and improvements to
> existing roads. It should be noted that all the
> money currently collected by the DVLA for road
> fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent
> on road building and improvements!
>
> The government's proposal to introduce road
> pricing will mean you having to purchase a
> tracking device for your car and paying a monthly
> bill to use it. The tracking device will cost
> about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the
> lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist
> and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum
> who used the car to take the kids to school paid
> £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase
> in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know
> where you are at all times. They will also know
> how fast you have been going, so even if you
> accidentally creep over a speed limit you can
> expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care
> about our freedoms and stopping the constant
> bashing of the car driver, please sign the
> petition on No 10's new website, sign up here
> 
> Even if you don't have a car please feel free to forward this e-mail on.



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[Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK

2007-01-01 Thread D. Mindock 
 UK - Road tax - Government petition
From: Loren Brown

Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition
This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on 
privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]!

It was stated on the news this morning (27th 
November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal 
has been suggested was to raise money for 
possible road building and improvements to 
existing roads. It should be noted that all the 
money currently collected by the DVLA for road 
fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent 
on road building and improvements!

The government's proposal to introduce road 
pricing will mean you having to purchase a 
tracking device for your car and paying a monthly 
bill to use it. The tracking device will cost 
about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the 
lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist 
and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum 
who used the car to take the kids to school paid 
£86 in one month. On top of this massive increase 
in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know 
where you are at all times. They will also know 
how fast you have been going, so even if you 
accidentally creep over a speed limit you can 
expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care 
about our freedoms and stopping the constant 
bashing of the car driver, please sign the 
petition on No 10's new website, sign up here 

Even if you don't have a car please feel free to forward this e-mail on.

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