Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Lillie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism? : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. That's the reason that people vote for Bush, and no other. The problem is that this is a flase belief. Real wages have gone down since Bush took office, and jobs have been lost. If you earn over $200,000 per year, you do have more money in your pocket. If you are like 99% of the country, chances are that you have lost ground. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. Your basis for this? Bush lied to bring this country to war, and continues to lie about the reasons for it. What lies has Kerry told? This statement needs to be backed up with some evidence. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Your basis for this gaurantee? Again, a baseless lie, this time reported as a gaurantee. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! Already addressed as a fallacy. All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Interesting, you make a gaurantee, then state that you cannot prove it. You've learned well from your President. State lies forcefully, then when challenged use smoke and mirrors. Do you think that the people on this board are foolish enough to buy it? : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Hi, I'm having difficulty finding information that details what countries have capitalist, communist or socialist economies, can anyone help? Lately I have been reading many proclamations that most of the world is socialist. Whenever they write or speak further it becomes evident they are confusing social programs with, socialism as an economy. Thanks Doug - Original Message - From: Lillie Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Thanks Doug. I know of no country in modern civilization that has successfully changed to (Lenin and Trotsky's view of) socialism. The reason why is a whole other discussion. However, you could find some good examples in early 20th century Detroit Michigan. I'd only like to add that from an environmentalists point of view, I could see (the theory of) socialism to be a friendlier alternative. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Mike Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm having difficulty finding information that details what countries have capitalist, communist or socialist economies, can anyone help? Lately I have been reading many proclamations that most of the world is socialist. Whenever they write or speak further it becomes evident they are confusing social programs with, socialism as an economy. Thanks Doug - Original Message - From: Lillie Bennett To: Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
: : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. That's the reason that people vote for Bush, and no other. The problem is that this is a flase belief. Real wages have gone down since Bush took office, and jobs have been lost. If you earn over $200,000 per year, you do have more money in your pocket. If you are like 99% of the country, chances are that you have lost ground. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. Your basis for this? Bush lied to bring this country to war, and continues to lie about the reasons for it. What lies has Kerry told? This statement needs to be backed up with some evidence. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Your basis for this gaurantee? Again, a baseless lie, this time reported as a gaurantee. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! Already addressed as a fallacy. All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Interesting, you make a gaurantee, then state that you cannot prove it. You've learned well from your President. State lies forcefully, then when challenged use smoke and mirrors. Do you think that the people on this board are foolish enough to buy it? : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Michael Redler wrote: snip From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
H, I am not sure what is the difference between the semantics ( meaning, essence) of the statement and the spirit of the statement. Could you elaborate a bit here? In my humble opinion, this statement only sounds nicely, making it a good slogan, but it is empty/broken in essence ... Again I am lost, what is the spirit of this statement? let me show you again how this statement is broken: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? IF it is the person himself, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: each one evaluates his abilities at MIN (meaning they do not produce much for the system) each one evaluates his needs at MAX (trying to exploit system to get maximum from it) This leads to broken system where there is not enough goods produced everyone lives poorly, chronic shortage of basic goods, even soap and toilet paper :) Former USSR knows this path very well. IF it is some other person, who decides, what people are able to do and what are their needs, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: people abilities are evaluated at MAX (meaning lots of work requested from people, compulsory work in extreme cases) people needs are evaluated at MIN (even basic needs are thrown out in extreme cases) This leads to a slippery path of the bureaucratic governing, planned economy, compulsory work, compulsory work camps Again, the former USSR knows this path very well. I do not know of any method, which _fairly_ evaluates people's abilities and needs. Of course, if one finds third, better method, the argument may change, but untill then we are stuck with one of the above options, and these lead to UGLY consequences. Michael Redler wrote: Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Tom, From Websters dictionary - semantics: The study of meanings spirit: Temper or disposition of mind For example, H doesn't carry as much specific meaning as it does an expression of sarcasm. If this doesn't clear things up, well, I think I'd like to change the subject because being mired in the semantics of this exchange is now occupying too much of my time. If you would like me to concede to some argument that has developed from this exchange -- then, so be it. For the sake of the folks on this list, I'm moving on. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H, I am not sure what is the difference between the semantics ( meaning, essence) of the statement and the spirit of the statement. Could you elaborate a bit here? In my humble opinion, this statement only sounds nicely, making it a good slogan, but it is empty/broken in essence ... Again I am lost, what is the spirit of this statement? let me show you again how this statement is broken: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? IF it is the person himself, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: each one evaluates his abilities at MIN (meaning they do not produce much for the system) each one evaluates his needs at MAX (trying to exploit system to get maximum from it) This leads to broken system where there is not enough goods produced everyone lives poorly, chronic shortage of basic goods, even soap and toilet paper :) Former USSR knows this path very well. IF it is some other person, who decides, what people are able to do and what are their needs, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: people abilities are evaluated at MAX (meaning lots of work requested from people, compulsory work in extreme cases) people needs are evaluated at MIN (even basic needs are thrown out in extreme cases) This leads to a slippery path of the bureaucratic governing, planned economy, compulsory work, compulsory work camps Again, the former USSR knows this path very well. I do not know of any method, which _fairly_ evaluates people's abilities and needs. Of course, if one finds third, better method, the argument may change, but untill then we are stuck with one of the above options, and these lead to UGLY consequences. Michael Redler wrote: Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
