Re: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol
Also - Is corn the best product to use to make Ethanol? Steve Once you've processed the crops for biodiesel or ethanol the remnants will probably be used for animal feed, humus, and manure I'd guess so as not to exclude soil fertility . . . some other ethanol sources mentioned -- Table 1. Average yield of 99.5 percent alcohol per ton** Table 2. Average yield of 99.5 percent alcohol per acre** http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh3.html#alcoholyield in the Table of Contents at http://permaculture.com/alcohol/book/toc.shtml Chapter 5 Feedstocks and Crops section 1 Feedstock Selection section 2 Jerusalem Artichokes section 3 Fodder Beets section 4 Sugar Beets section 5 Sweet Sorghum section 6 Nipa and Sago Palms section 7 Cassava section 8 Cattails section 9 Coffee Pulp section 10 Potatoes section 11 Sweet Potatoes section 12 Wheat section 13 Manure section 14 Corn section 15 Citrus Fruits section 16 Tropical Fruits section 17 Mesquite section 18 Prickly Pear section 19 Buffalo Gourd section 20 Pimelon section 21 Sugar Cane section 22 Whey section 23 Molasses section 24 Forage Plants section 25 Comfrey section 26 Lichens section 27 Marine Algae section 28 Urban Sources section 29 Cellulose Technology ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol
Sorry Steve and list, I see I was just repeating what was already known and shown to you so I wasn't really much help. Hope you find what your looking for on that farm of yours. Also - Is corn the best product to use to make Ethanol? Steve Once you've processed the crops for biodiesel or ethanol the remnants will probably be used for animal feed, humus, and manure I'd guess so as not to exclude soil fertility . . . some other ethanol sources mentioned -- Table 1. Average yield of 99.5 percent alcohol per ton** Table 2. Average yield of 99.5 percent alcohol per acre** http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh3.html#alcoholyield in the Table of Contents at http://permaculture.com/alcohol/book/toc.shtml Chapter 5 Feedstocks and Crops ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol
Keith, Thanks for the info. However, I am a poor farmer not a dumb one. I do have a major variety of crops and corn is a rotation crop. There is not many alternatives to rotation crops. No? If you say so. Do you do this? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/12561/ I don't really agree with it though. Limited information? I don't think so. And this too is largely input substitution - green manures might provide N, P and K, but they seldom do much for humus management, which is all that counts really. No animal manure - they'd have done very much better to have used rotational grass leys and grazed it. That's real low-input high-output farming, real humus management too, and all at a profit. That's partly what I meant by integrated mixed farm. See Ley farming: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley Sow a piece of land with a good pasture mixture and then divide it in two with a fence. Graze one half heavily and repeatedly with cattle, mow the other half as necessary and leave the mowings there in place to decay back into the soil. On the grazed half, you've removed the crop (several times) and taken away a large yield of milk and beef. On the other half you've removed nothing. Plough up both halves and plant a grain crop, or any crop. Which half has the bigger and better yield? The grazed half, by far. Ley Farming explains why grass is the most important crop and how to manage grass leys. Leys are temporary pastures in a rotation, and provide more than enough fertility for the succeeding crops: working together, grass and grazing animals turn the land into a huge living compost pile. Not limited information. When I count my time and fuel costs I may make a few pennies on the corn but what I would like to do is at least save several dollars instead by making my own fuel. I looked over the list of oil producing seeds. The top 8 (some I never heard of) I do not think can be grown in PA. I also have to look at the feasibility of getting the seed out of the plant. I grow about 700 acres of pumpkins. Pumpkin seeds have 2x the oil as corn. The only way I know of to get pumpkin seeds out of a pumpkin is to carve it open and scoop the out. That is alot of carving and scooping. Does anyone know what is the best oil producing seed that can still be grown in PA? Also - Is corn the best product to use to make Ethanol? Certaily not: Not exactly the best energy crops. There's starch and oil in corn (maize) but a lot more of both in other crops. Soy isn't an Also: I am new to this site and have been following and trying to find some info for a few weeks. I guess I will just ask. Did you try these? At the end of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Plenty of information for you there. Seems you didn't look. Nver mind, Hoagy's done some of it for you at least. Best wishes Keith Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Keith Addison Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 11:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuelcell etc Hello Steve I am new to this site and have been following and trying to find some info for a few weeks. I guess I will just ask. Did you try these? At the end of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Plenty of information for you there. I have a large farm and a large source of corn and soybeans from farming. Not exactly the best energy crops. There's starch and oil in corn (maize) but a lot more of both in other crops. Soy isn't an efficient source of oil unless you extract it with hexane, simple pressing won't do much for you, and soy oil isn't the best feedstock for biodiesel anyway (semi-drying oil). On an integrated mixed farm you should be able to produce enough energy to run the farm and more besides from an ever-changing assortment of by-products, so it's more or less free. But if you're growing corn and soy that you're losing money on you're not doing integrated mixed farming anyway, and it's doubtful that you'd get more biofuel out of it than the fossil-fuel inputs you're putting into it. I am very interested in knowing if there is an economical way I can either make my own biodiesel or ethanol for my tractors and/or trucks for my own use and possible sell excess. Shouldn't be a problem, if you select better energy crops to grow
Re: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol
by www.bio-power.co.uk It makes some valid points in my opinion regarding the use of chemicals. I have mentioned this method of fuel production before on this list and got an overwhelming reply with negative comments on this other method of fuel production. I am making biodiesel regularly not as a commercial project or business but simply to run 2 vehicles. I produce batches of 100 litres about 4 at a time once a month and feel that the lack of hazardous chemicals with this other method very attractive. It also suggests a continuous process is a viable option which is also a positive as if I can rig up a processor I will have to spend significantly less time creating my fuel. Has anyone any experience with this type of bio-fuel and what were the results? During email correspondence with bio-power I was told the methods they are using also allow the use of heavily hydrogenated oils such as palm (which is used in most traditional English fish chip shops and is readily available in large quantities) I have made bio diesel with these oils in the past and have had to run a 50/50 mix with fossil diesel to winterise the fuel acceptably (even then I froze the tank twice last winter which is not fun!) I am currently using lots of suppliers of small quantities of various liquid oils. Regards Chris Bennett.. *The difference between Bio-power MUVO and standard Bio-diesel RME? **Are there any dangers or risks in these different forms of bio-fuel?*** Many people ask these same questions, and I must add a few more pages to the web site to deal with this remark. The Bio-power web site is always rather out of date, but we do have a much more detailed members site which is accessible to people who have been on one of the Bio-power Introductory Seminars and wish to become a Bio-power Local Agent within the Bio-power Network. There are a number of reasons why we prefer the unique Bio-power method for making a bio-fuel as Modified Used Vegetable Oil. The process otherwise used to make bio-diesel as a Fatty Acid Methyl Ester has many problems associated with the method of manufacture, problems with the materials used and problems connected with the use of the fuel type itself. *Lets look first at the means of manufacture* As you probably already know, RME (Rapeseed Methyl Ester) is made by shattering the lipid fat molecule to strip the three long hydrocarbon chains from their ester bond. This leaves glycerol as a waste by-product. The process is normally achieved using methanol as the new stem, and caustic soda as the catalyst. The process is called transesterification because the hydrocarbons are swapped from a triple bond with glycerol to a single bond with methanol. The volume of fuel made is therefore less than the volume of fat stock used. For this reason we say it is a 'subtractive' method. The potential energy contained in the glycerol is wasted as a fuel, though it can be used as a sugar in a must to create alcohol. However, there are much more efficient and cheaper sugar sources. Nitric acid and glycerol makes nitro-glycerine a high explosive. All this potential energy is wasted. By comparison, the Bio-power technique is an additive process. We do not use any chemical reactions. We do not need any 'nasty' chemicals like sulphuric acid, methanol and caustic soda. We especially do not like methanol because it is created by the petrochemical industry and is therefore fossil sourced, and our primary aim is to produce alternatives to the use of fossil fuels. We do not create any waste by-product like glycerol, and all the potential energy in the fat stock is made available for use as a fuel. We also make larger volume of fuel than that of the fat feed stock because we add other non-mineral materials to achieve the most cost effective improvement in combustion. Because we do not use the processes of esterification or trans-esterification, we do not need any licences for our process from the Environment Agency. Our process does not require any heat or mixing procedures, and it does not create any vapours or toxic emissions. *If we look at the materials used in the two processes* The manufacture of Bio-diesel requires methanol. This is often misleadingly called wood alcohol as if it were a natural material. In reality it is a product of the petrochemical industry and it is made from fossil hydrocarbons. The process of transesterification transfers the ester bond of lipid fats from glycerol (a plant sugar) to methanol (a fossil hydrocarbon). It is therefore not a wholly non-fossil process, and takes valuable energy stored in a non-fossil material (glycerine) out of the fuel, and replaces it with a fossil derived material whilst claiming to be a carbon neutral fuel. Methanol is also a very active chemical against which the human body has no means of defence. It is absorbed easily through the skin and there is no means of elimination from the body,
[Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuel cell etc
I am new to this site and have been following and trying to find some info for a few weeks. I guess I will just ask. Did you try these? At the end of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Plenty of information for you there. I have a large farm and a large source of corn and soybeans from farming. Not exactly the best energy crops. There's starch and oil in corn (maize) but a lot more of both in other crops. Soy isn't an efficient source of oil unless you extract it with hexane, simple pressing won't do much for you, and soy oil isn't the best feedstock for biodiesel anyway (semi-drying oil). On an integrated mixed farm you should be able to produce enough energy to run the farm and more besides from an ever-changing assortment of by-products, so it's more or less free. But if you're growing corn and soy that you're losing money on you're not doing integrated mixed farming anyway, and it's doubtful that you'd get more biofuel out of it than the fossil-fuel inputs you're putting into it. I am very interested in knowing if there is an economical way I can either make my own biodiesel or ethanol for my tractors and/or trucks for my own use and possible sell excess. Shouldn't be a problem, if you select better energy crops to grow. There's a very large choice, much detail to be found in the list archives and the Biofuels section of Journey to Forever, and in the online Biofuels library. Is this a process that would save me $$? Definitely, if you did it right. Corn and soy prices are very low so I am losing money growing them. Grow something else then. Best wishes Keith Poor dirt farmer in PA, Steve Hess snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuelcell etc
Keith, Thanks for the info. However, I am a poor farmer not a dumb one. I do have a major variety of crops and corn is a rotation crop. There is not many alternatives to rotation crops. When I count my time and fuel costs I may make a few pennies on the corn but what I would like to do is at least save several dollars instead by making my own fuel. I looked over the list of oil producing seeds. The top 8 (some I never heard of) I do not think can be grown in PA. I also have to look at the feasibility of getting the seed out of the plant. I grow about 700 acres of pumpkins. Pumpkin seeds have 2x the oil as corn. The only way I know of to get pumpkin seeds out of a pumpkin is to carve it open and scoop the out. That is alot of carving and scooping. Does anyone know what is the best oil producing seed that can still be grown in PA? Also - Is corn the best product to use to make Ethanol? Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Keith Addison Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 11:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuelcell etc Hello Steve I am new to this site and have been following and trying to find some info for a few weeks. I guess I will just ask. Did you try these? At the end of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Plenty of information for you there. I have a large farm and a large source of corn and soybeans from farming. Not exactly the best energy crops. There's starch and oil in corn (maize) but a lot more of both in other crops. Soy isn't an efficient source of oil unless you extract it with hexane, simple pressing won't do much for you, and soy oil isn't the best feedstock for biodiesel anyway (semi-drying oil). On an integrated mixed farm you should be able to produce enough energy to run the farm and more besides from an ever-changing assortment of by-products, so it's more or less free. But if you're growing corn and soy that you're losing money on you're not doing integrated mixed farming anyway, and it's doubtful that you'd get more biofuel out of it than the fossil-fuel inputs you're putting into it. I am very interested in knowing if there is an economical way I can either make my own biodiesel or ethanol for my tractors and/or trucks for my own use and possible sell excess. Shouldn't be a problem, if you select better energy crops to grow. There's a very large choice, much detail to be found in the list archives and the Biofuels section of Journey to Forever, and in the online Biofuels library. Is this a process that would save me $$? Definitely, if you did it right. Corn and soy prices are very low so I am losing money growing them. Grow something else then. Best wishes Keith Poor dirt farmer in PA, Steve Hess snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuelcell etc
Burlington Northern had a test using Safflower. I think it was grown in Montana. I am told it doesn't like too much water. Also it may have soy's problem - a high iodine number. Kirk http://www.etagriculture.com/nov_dec2002/avenues.html Safflower seed oil: Around the world, safflower is mainly grown for its edible oil, which can be used, for cooking and in preparation of mayonnaise, salad oil and margarine. Safflower oil has the highest ratio of polyunsaturated/saturated fatty acids of any oil available. It has been observed on administration to patients with Hypercholesterolemia, the unsaturated fatty acids of safflower lower the serum cholesterol level. This effect is variable and not discernible in patients with normal or near normal cholesterol levels, nor does it occur unless the total fatty acid intake is reduced. Though clinical value of safflower oil is still considered to be incompletely proven, there is a considerable health food market for safflower oil, especially in North America, Germany and Japan. Oil levels in the seed ranging from 10 to 50 per cent have been reported from around the world for safflower. The commercialisation of safflower in the 1950s was driven, in part, by the paint and varnish industry. The oils properties contribute to unsurpassed quality in paints, alkyd resins and coatings. However, less costly petroleum products and a shift to water-based paints have limited their use. Steve Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, Thanks for the info. However, I am a poor farmer not a dumb one. I do have a major variety of crops and corn is a rotation crop. There is not many alternatives to rotation crops. When I count my time and fuel costs I may make a few pennies on the corn but what I would like to do is at least save several dollars instead by making my own fuel. I looked over the list of oil producing seeds. The top 8 (some I never heard of) I do not think can be grown in PA. I also have to look at the feasibility of getting the seed out of the plant. I grow about 700 acres of pumpkins. Pumpkin seeds have 2x the oil as corn. The only way I know of to get pumpkin seeds out of a pumpkin is to carve it open and scoop the out. That is alot of carving and scooping. Does anyone know what is the best oil producing seed that can still be grown in PA? Also - Is corn the best product to use to make Ethanol? Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Keith Addison Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 11:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: [Biofuel] On-farm biodiesel or ethanol - was RE: home made fuelcell etc Hello Steve I am new to this site and have been following and trying to find some info for a few weeks. I guess I will just ask. Did you try these? At the end of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Plenty of information for you there. I have a large farm and a large source of corn and soybeans from farming. Not exactly the best energy crops. There's starch and oil in corn (maize) but a lot more of both in other crops. Soy isn't an efficient source of oil unless you extract it with hexane, simple pressing won't do much for you, and soy oil isn't the best feedstock for biodiesel anyway (semi-drying oil). On an integrated mixed farm you should be able to produce enough energy to run the farm and more besides from an ever-changing assortment of by-products, so it's more or less free. But if you're growing corn and soy that you're losing money on you're not doing integrated mixed farming anyway, and it's doubtful that you'd get more biofuel out of it than the fossil-fuel inputs you're putting into it. I am very interested in knowing if there is an economical way I can either make my own biodiesel or ethanol for my tractors and/or trucks for my own use and possible sell excess. Shouldn't be a problem, if you select better energy crops to grow. There's a very large choice, much detail to be found in the list archives and the Biofuels section of Journey to Forever, and in the online Biofuels library. Is this a process that would save me $$? Definitely, if you did it right. Corn and soy prices are very low so I am losing money growing them. Grow something else then. Best wishes Keith Poor dirt farmer in PA, Steve Hess ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http
