Thank you very much for bringing here the real problems there in India
Every where the oil companies are against the renewable energy.The problem is the very big countries such as India , china , Brazil need not follow the model of the other countries expecting oil companies will solve the rural problems.
Here in Brazil in the Amazonian rain forest area the diesel price is 8 times more than in the other place.In rural area of the India farmer need to plant rice in the night. some place more than 50 percent of the population do not know TV and what the energy.In India the energy is given to many and make energy cut .India can never become developed country with energy cut .
If you have well followed regularly our list members thinking , the Keith our list coordinator effort is not to separate the political , technical , economical problems related with bio fuel.
If you are not able to help the small farmer to produce their energy , most of the younger well qualified PhD from IIT will go to the country where there is energy such as Newzealand, Australia They will be pushed to work in the decentralised small cogeneration unit making fuel, food , feed from biomass .
This has happened to my life and my professor and friend from IIT Delhi are very proud that the best Biochemical engineering graduate from IIT all have got employment in other countries , but this is not sustainable for India as the bio oil company do not care nothing for the same.
Making one fuel for farmer need cannot be considered as crime as very well debated here for very long time and several farmers make here in Brazil alcohol and sell to oil using microdistillary too in Brazil and they fill the car too at their own risk.This also true for BioD.
Our list the biggest dynamic list in internet.Why ? Here we make debate on complex subject to arrive at practical and simple solution.Thus biofuel use to indian farmer can be solved by methods well documented by Keith
Biofuel at Journey to Forever (JTF)
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
You know very well that the government in India is not able to stop illegal alcohol production .
People , like you need to put make E10 AND BIOD and put in motor BIKES , CAR AND SEE THE SUSTAINABILITY rather than expecting Indian oil corporation and Indian government will solve the problems.
See Keith work in JTF files , showing all home made decentralised , self help work is possible with fotos bringing here the international experience and I agree with you that this biofuel not the solution for all the place.As thr education and democracy work, I am sure that India is moving correctly in this fields and wish the younger well educated generation change the poverty and food problems due energy crisis.The country has research on Bullock cart in this decades, surel can set examples too decentralised biofuel production especially in rural areas.
There in india if the chief ministers of the states are winning the election by the promise of free power for farmer , they should also bother about making the law first to get away the nergy problems , other wise the future will be dark for all there.Thus the problem is sustainablity and also the problem is the same as many developed and under developed one.
Dear subramaniam you can help a lot , if you invite Keith there , make seminars , you see the The energy block out , energy crysis solved by the farmers
Thanking you
sd
Pannirselvam
On 9/11/05, subramanian D.V <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam,I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals for producing alcohol.The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But.....The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol is not possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side.Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India.On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol for E05 in the whole country but then the Indian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders for ethanol.So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course.Regards,Subramanian"Pannirselvam P.V" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Dear ManickCellular 84 88145083 _______________________________________________
I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs
In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development.
Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help.
Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay.
I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis
sd
Pannirselvam
On 9/10/05, Manick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:Tq Chris,My reason for posting is to stimulate interest to convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to do them here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and danger of losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing the doldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. CheersManickh
Chris lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:> hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make
> sure
that all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued
fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. <
That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you
need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne
bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.
Wessex Ferret Club
www.wessexferretclub.co.uk
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Pagandai V Pannirselvam
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Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC
Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :
Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
Capim Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770
residencia 32171557
Cellular 84 88145083
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