Greetings everyone, Here is one fairly recent conference paper that is available online via the link below that I think is worth reading for those on both sides of this debate.
http://services.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=eci/heatexchanger The list of references in their paper is also an excellent source for finding more papers to read on this topic including some interesting history on the topic. The authors of this paper referred to these devices as PWT (Physical Water Treatment) devices. I know that many of you are more interested in fuel treatment using these devices than water treatment and I will endeavor to find a similar article like this one that covers the fuel treatment topic as well as this one covers water treatment. Also please keep in mind that prevention of scale formation on heat exchanger surfaces in water cooled heat exchangers, and home water heaters for instance is an energy saving issue. Enjoy, Mike McGinness Keith Addison wrote: > Hello Greg > > >Until you take the human influence ( conscious or subconscious ) and other > >variables from the results, there is no way to do any conclusive scientific > >test. Without any conclusive scientific testing, there is no proof. > > > >Just because there are cars on the road that use magnets, and they appear to > >work, is no teat or proof that they work. The owners could very easily be > >subconscious be easier on the throttle, which in turn make it appear that > >the magnets are indeed working. One can just as easily say that Mutually > >Assured Destruction worked, so it is a good thing to have nuclear weapons. > > > >NOT. > > > >Just because something appears to work, does not mean that it actualy does, > >unless conclusive scientific testing - that eliminates any other possible > >variables as the actual reason for the improvement, proves it does. > > > >*** Sorry Keith, but, it's time for the pro-magnet crowd to put up > >verifiable testing or cut the yacking about something that is not proven to > >work - we may as well be talking about Zero point energy, cold fusion, or > >perpetual motion machines *** > > 'Fraid so. Or 200mpg carburettors, as Bob said. Same as before. But > hope springs eternal. Maybe we could power an over-unity device on > eternally springing hope. Oh, sorry, that IS how they're powered, > isn't it. > > Anyway I agree, the pro-magnet crowd should put up verifiable testing > or cut the yacking. > > All best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > KYOTO Pref., Japan > http://journeytoforever.org/ > Biofuel list owner > > >Greg H. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Andres Secco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:28 > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic > >watertreatment > > > > > >Greg, > >My experience is totally different and disagree with your concepts of "no > >real proofs". > >There are thousands of cars, cooling towers and boilers running with magnets > >with very good results. > >Better fosil fuel yield no fouling are the reported results. > >Of course if someone wants to "pasteurize" or sterilize water is unlikely to > >do it with magnets. > >Magnets do not make miracles but say that there is a waste of time to use > >them is too much. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:40 AM > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic water > >treatment > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > You have made a statement that really stands out as to how unreliable the > > > science of magnetism really is. > > > > > > Ozone is now a proven technology for many things, including purification > > > of > > > water, while 30 years ago it was in the realm of junk science. > > > > > > Yet, after 30 years, magnets are still in the realm of junk science ( > > > sounds > > > good - maybe even possible, but no real proof ). > > > > > > One would think that thirty years would be plenty of time to establish the > > > how and why it works and be accepted by the mainstream science community. > > > Yet, magnets are still have not been proven by scientific trials. > > > > > > You mention trials by putting them on fuel pipelines, and watching the > > > differences in the amount of wax build up, but, there is no proof in that. > > > > > > The amount of wax in fuel varies with the time of the year, and the > > > particular fuel flowing through the pipeline. The same pipeline will > > > handle ( in order of decreasing wax content ) heating oil ( Diesel #4 ), > > > vehicle diesel in the summer( Diesel #2 ), vehicle Diesel in the winter ( > > > Diesel #1 or a blend of #1 and #2 depending on how cold the area get's, > > > that > > > the fuel is going to ) and possibly kerosene depending on the area. > > > > > > A build up of wax that occurred when heating oil is being pumped through > > > the > > > pipeline, will dissolve when diesel #1 or kerosene is being pumped through > > > the pipeline. > > > > > > Wax buildup is also more likely to occur during the late winter / early > > > spring, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the > > > soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline > > > is, > > > the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a > > > few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax > > > build > > > up with the different fuels. > > > > > > Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, > > > it > > > is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. > > > > > > > > > Greg H. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mike McGinness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic > > > water treatment > > > > > > > > > SNIP > > >> > > >> These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, > > > which has moved from the realm of sudo > > >> science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead > > > of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking > > >> water supply systems. > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
