Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
It's interesting that in this thread so far nobody has brought up Thermal Depolymerization...that's a pretty cool technology that's in its infancy, but has potential. There's a plant in the bible belt somewhere that's been using butterball turkey offal as a base material... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization Anywho...BD proponants will no doubt have something negative to say about this emerging technology, but I think it's pretty cool. Of course, it's not solving out emissions problems, or reducing our energy consumption...which should be the paramount goal in developing energy technologymore for less, renewable etc. You said it yourself, some of it. More important, it's not suitable for small, local community-scale operations, which are the only scale that makes any sense for biofuels (food, anything). Which, along with Robert's comment about the waste stream it depends on, makes it less than cool. Best Keith --- MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know anything about Tyson using chicken fat to supply stock for biodiesel? If so, comments? Thanks. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Jason Katie wrote: BD a dollar more than DD? what a crock. if we can do it in our collective garage for less than a dollar a gallon why cant they do it in a huge super-specialized facility for even less? man, these corporate types are dumber than i thought...and i figured they were they were incompetent to begin with. They have a lot more fingers in their pies than you do, with government regulations, paying for collection time and labor and feedstock, Research and Development costs that must be recouped, government regulations, safety inspections, administrative overhead... did I mention the government regulations they have to meet? With oil production subsidized like it is, I'm not surprised that it costs more to produce BD than DD. But I imagine that if you stripped all the subsidies off of both of them, petrodiesel would come out more expensive than the bio. -Kurt I'll side with Jason, at least until corporate types like ADM et al who're making ethanol from corn wake up to the fact that they could also make biodiesel from the corn oil instead of treating it as a waste product or whatever they do with it these days. Actually I'll still side with Jason even if they are doing that, I'm not going to run out of evidence of big-central corporate dumbnesses any time soon. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
besides, the last energy bill handed the oil companies 10 Billion with a B to, uh, get more. Kurt Nolte wrote: Jason Katie wrote: BD a dollar more than DD? what a crock. if we can do it in our collective garage for less than a dollar a gallon why cant they do it in a huge super-specialized facility for even less? man, these corporate types are dumber than i thought...and i figured they were they were incompetent to begin with. They have a lot more fingers in their pies than you do, with government regulations, paying for collection time and labor and feedstock, Research and Development costs that must be recouped, government regulations, safety inspections, administrative overhead... did I mention the government regulations they have to meet? With oil production subsidized like it is, I'm not surprised that it costs more to produce BD than DD. But I imagine that if you stripped all the subsidies off of both of them, petrodiesel would come out more expensive than the bio. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Anyone know anything about Tyson using chicken fat to supply stock for biodiesel? If so, comments? Thanks. Mike DuPree___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Anyone know anything about Tyson using chicken fat to supply stock for biodiesel? If so, comments? Thanks. Mike DuPree http://www.agriculture.com/ag/futuresource/FutureSourceStoryIndex.jhtm l?storyId=77700329 Overlooked Animal Fat Becomes Key Biodiesel Ingredient 4:15 PM, January 2, 2007 DEXTER, Mo. (AP)--Jerry Bagby is typical of the oil men who are prospecting for a fortune in the Midwestern biofuels boom. He's convinced there's oil in these hills -- and he's found a well that no one else is using. Bagby and a longtime friend have cobbled together $5 million to build a new biodiesel plant on the lonely croplands outside this southeast Missouri town. They're betting they can hit paydirt by exploiting a generally overlooked natural resource that's abundant in these parts -- chicken fat. There's a virtual gusher of the stuff at a nearby Tyson Foods Inc. (TSN) poultry plant. Currently, the low-quality fat is shipped out of state to be rendered and used as a cheap ingredient in pet food, soap and other products. Bagby and his partner Harold Williams plan to refine the gooey substance, mix it with soybean oil and produce about 3 million gallons of biodiesel annually. Today, only a tiny fraction of U.S. biodiesel is made from chicken fat, but that seems likely to change. The rising cost of soybean oil -- which accounts for roughly 90% of all biodiesel fuel stock -- is pushing the industry to exploit cheap and plentiful animal fats. The nation's biggest meat corporations haven taken notice. Tyson Foods announced in November it has established a renewable energy division that will be up and running during 2007. Competitors Perdue Farms Inc. and Smithfield Foods Inc. (SFD) are making similar moves. As meatpackers enter the field, they bring massive amounts of fuel stock that could make biodiesel cheaper and more plentiful. The shift to animal fat as a fuel stock could be key to making the budding biodiesel industry a reliable fuel source for U.S. trucking fleets, said Vernon Eidman, a professor of economics at the University of Minnesota who has extensively studied the biofuels industry. Eidman estimates that within five years, the U.S. will produce 1 billion gallons of biodiesel, and half of it will be made from animal fat. By that time soybean-based biodiesel will account for about 20% of the total, he said. For fuel refiners like Bagby, the allure of animal fat is clear. Soybean oil costs 33 cents a pound while chicken fat costs 19 cents. He only plans to include soybean oil in his blend because it adds necessary lubrication for engine parts. Soybean oil is more expensive than other products, so we just use enough of it to make the system run clean, Bagby said, gesturing toward a row of pipes and vats being installed in his new refinery. For companies like Tyson, the attraction is simple. Being the nation's biggest meat company, Tyson is also the biggest producer of leftover fat from chicken, cattle and hogs. Tyson is keeping the specifics of its renewable fuels division under tight wraps. But Tyson Vice President Jeff Webster told a recent investment conference the potential is clear. Tyson produces about 2.3 billion pounds of chicken fat annually from its poultry plants. That's about 300 million gallons that could be converted to fuel. The market for biodiesel and ethanol really started to boom in August 2005, after passage of the federal Energy Policy Act, experts say. The bill set a new standard requiring the U.S. to use 7 billion gallons of renewable fuels by 2012. While it's always been cheaper, animal fat was initially overlooked as a biodiesel fuel stock because of its uneven quality, Eidman said. When the energy bill passed, soybean oil was already widely sold as a food additive. Biodiesel refiners could depend on its quality because the oil was marketed and certified under a strict guidelines, Eidman said. Animal fat also has its technical drawbacks. It clouds up at higher temperatures than soy-based biodiesel, which means it might thicken up when used in colder, northern cities, Eidman said. That might limit distribution to southern areas where temperatures don't often drop below 40 degrees or so. While these factors kept animal fat in the background, the biodiesel industry has hit a turning point. Increasing demand for soybean oil as a fuel and as a food is making the price creep up. It now makes economic sense to invest in new technology to process animal fat into usable form as a fuel stock. Tyson and Perdue are already experimenting with biodiesel. Both companies have started using biodiesel in their trucking fleets. Salisbury, Md.-based Perdue is also selling soybean oil as a biodiesel fuel stock through the company's grain and oilseed division. The company also said this summer it's studying plans to build its own biofuels plants or invest in others. Smithfield Foods has established its own biofuels
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Keith Addison posted: Snip http://www.agriculture.com/ag/futuresource/FutureSourceStoryIndex.jhtm l?storyId=77700329 snip While it's always been cheaper, animal fat was initially overlooked as a biodiesel fuel stock because of its uneven quality, Eidman said. The sulfur content of chicken fat can vary all over the place depending on feed and conditions. There is no mention of this in the article. I suspect that is one of the big reasons they mix with veg oil. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel More biodiesel in the marketplace could help make biodiesel's cost even more competitive with diesel fuel, Pearson said. The board estimates that U.S. biodiesel production is tripling annually, going from 25 million gallons in 2004 to 75 million gallons last year. The final tally for 2006 should be between 150 and 225 million. Biodiesel costs about $1 a gallon more to produce than conventional diesel, but federal tax breaks for fuel distributors help hide that cost from consumers. BD a dollar more than DD? what a crock. if we can do it in our collective garage for less than a dollar a gallon why cant they do it in a huge super-specialized facility for even less? man, these corporate types are dumber than i thought...and i figured they were they were incompetent to begin with. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Jason Katie wrote: BD a dollar more than DD? what a crock. if we can do it in our collective garage for less than a dollar a gallon why cant they do it in a huge super-specialized facility for even less? man, these corporate types are dumber than i thought...and i figured they were they were incompetent to begin with. They have a lot more fingers in their pies than you do, with government regulations, paying for collection time and labor and feedstock, Research and Development costs that must be recouped, government regulations, safety inspections, administrative overhead... did I mention the government regulations they have to meet? With oil production subsidized like it is, I'm not surprised that it costs more to produce BD than DD. But I imagine that if you stripped all the subsidies off of both of them, petrodiesel would come out more expensive than the bio. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
ok, i can see your point, but i have to contend the fact that WE spend a world more time and labor on collection, feedstock can be had for pennies (if anything at all), RD can be written off as an investment, safety inspections are only yearly, the admin overhead can be easily reduced by not paying the admin so damn much, and the only reason the gov't regs are so expensive to meet is because the ASTM test array (six right?) costs just slightly more than the change you can find in the boardroom couch, and they keep making crap fuel and have to retest every run, so thats 12,000USD right there that gets tossed out the window every time they screw up a run. i doubt it would affect them as heavily if they would do it right the first time... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel Jason Katie wrote: BD a dollar more than DD? what a crock. if we can do it in our collective garage for less than a dollar a gallon why cant they do it in a huge super-specialized facility for even less? man, these corporate types are dumber than i thought...and i figured they were they were incompetent to begin with. They have a lot more fingers in their pies than you do, with government regulations, paying for collection time and labor and feedstock, Research and Development costs that must be recouped, government regulations, safety inspections, administrative overhead... did I mention the government regulations they have to meet? With oil production subsidized like it is, I'm not surprised that it costs more to produce BD than DD. But I imagine that if you stripped all the subsidies off of both of them, petrodiesel would come out more expensive than the bio. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
It's interesting that in this thread so far nobody has brought up Thermal Depolymerization...that's a pretty cool technology that's in its infancy, but has potential. There's a plant in the bible belt somewhere that's been using butterball turkey offal as a base material... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization Anywho...BD proponants will no doubt have something negative to say about this emerging technology, but I think it's pretty cool. Of course, it's not solving out emissions problems, or reducing our energy consumption...which should be the paramount goal in developing energy technologymore for less, renewable etc. --- MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know anything about Tyson using chicken fat to supply stock for biodiesel? If so, comments? Thanks. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tyson and Chicken fat as Biodiesel
Luke Hansen wrote: It's interesting that in this thread so far nobody has brought up Thermal Depolymerization... Oh, that's been discussed (and disgust!) here before! Check the archives, Luke. that's a pretty cool technology that's in its infancy, but has potential. There's a plant in the bible belt somewhere that's been using butterball turkey offal as a base material... The problem is not the technology itself, but the factory farm system that actually generates enough waste for thermal depolymerization to be practical. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization Anywho...BD proponants will no doubt have something negative to say about this emerging technology, but I think it's pretty cool. Please don't insult the collective intelligence of the list members with such a simplistic dismissal. Some of us have been here a LONG time, and thermal depolymerization is old news in this forum. Of course, it's not solving out emissions problems, or reducing our energy consumption...which should be the paramount goal in developing energy technologymore for less, renewable etc. There's hope for you, if you really understand what you've written in that last statement. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
