Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
won't even get your fingers dirty, and there's hardly any smell. Nice compost it made. For sanitation though it just doesn't matter, just as long as it all gets to the required temperature for the required length of time, which is easily arranged. Test results showing that pathogens are surviving the process mean that the processing needs improvement, not that the process should be abandoned. .. I think the results would never be published .. :-) Not by Tysons anyway. Best Keith Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt, distributor Psionic Energy Software http://miracle6bizland.com/softwaresolutions/ Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:30:37 -0600 (CST) I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions. I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
think the results would never be published .. :-) Not by Tysons anyway. Best Keith Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt, distributor Psionic Energy Software http://miracle6bizland.com/softwaresolutions/ Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:30:37 -0600 (CST) I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions. I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
manure from outside, but we were very choosy about where we got it from. Most cattle have diarrhoea all the time. There are feral cattle on Lantau Island in Hong Kong, where we used to live, fending for themselves on the mountain slopes: you can pick up a fresh turd from one of those cows and you won't even get your fingers dirty, and there's hardly any smell. Nice compost it made. For sanitation though it just doesn't matter, just as long as it all gets to the required temperature for the required length of time, which is easily arranged. Test results showing that pathogens are surviving the process mean that the processing needs improvement, not that the process should be abandoned. .. I think the results would never be published .. :-) Not by Tysons anyway. Best Keith Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt, distributor Psionic Energy Software http://miracle6bizland.com/softwaresolutions/ Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:30:37 -0600 (CST) I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions. I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
I think it's the same principle .. what goes in is what comes out. I read a great deal and don't necessarily remember exactly where my source was but, I understand that it was standard practice for little men with small wagons to take the overnight pots from the homes in the cities in Japan and use that human manure as fertilizer in the country .. our returning American military people thought this was on the side of disgusting (American Puritan backgrounds getting into their usual judgments concerning other cultures and practices) .. but .. whatever I read supported this practice because the diet of the average Japanese family was very low in meat. I can't even remember reading anything about this one .. probably just something I've heard said forever .. but the best manure comes from the grass eating animals which leaves out the average American, the dogs and the cats etc because of the poor quality and large amount of meat that is consumed while dogs and cats are both basically carnivores. So with that being the basis of my thinking on this subject, my guess is that a general study will not support human to fertilizer as being a good practice because that same general study would also have all those McDonalds Happy Meals in the mix. .. but if there ever were an actual study done then perhaps a study comparing horse, cow, chicken manure from small family farms against the same species manure from factory farms and feed lots. .. I think the results would never be published .. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt, distributor Psionic Energy Software http://miracle6bizland.com/softwaresolutions/ Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:30:37 -0600 (CST) I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions. I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
Hello Luke Jeez Keith, you may be quicker to point the finger than even myself! Naah, usually I wait and somebody else does it. C'mon, I wasn't condemning this guys actions...quite to the contrary, I think it's great that he's making efficient use of his own waste...I'm just trying to evaluate the situation. I don't know that much about this subject, so I'm trying to hear/read all arguments for and against. But you said you were curious, and it only took 10 seconds to find that archives reference. You forget the list has a memory, there's a lot of good stuff in there, more than 400 Mb of it by now, 65,000 messages, you're almost bound to find something. There was good information about what you were curious about right at your fingertips. In fact you're obliged to use the list resources, it's not just a chat group. Anyway... And of course I know that government can be rediculous to deal with christ...I work for the pricks...I know all about beauracracies (sp.) I don't really know where Wes is coming from with his comments, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from humanure unless it was proven beyond a doubt that it was causing direct harm to people, or their environment...which I doubt it would..if done properly. I have some friends that live on a communal land trust (read: commune) close to where I live in northwestern washington state...they've been using hand-dug outdoor privies for as many years as I've known them, and have had no problems that I know of. You haven't read this page yet, eh? http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden Give it a try. Ok. Didn't mean to get all defensive like that. I guess that I don't deal well with harsh rebuttals or criticism. Sorry. :-) Maybe you drew more flak than you should have, two such messages in a row downright spoiled my morning coffee. Sorry about that. ... Anyway, it's Christmas Eve, half an hour to midnight here, though Christmas in Japan is a somewhat strange experience, never mind, peace, goodwill, and merry karisamasu. All best Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions. I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C (158 deg F). Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste... If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he gives his reference as Joseph Jenkins (why did you cut his message? - I've put it back at the end). See eg:
[Biofuel] humanure to humus
I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste...I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. And also...what kind of fascist housing authority is this guy dealing with...taking his house away...hmmm...does he have a history of pissing off the neighborhood, or does he just live in some posh upperclass development where the Bourgeoisie don't want to smell his decomposing shit. Best of luck anyways, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C (158 deg F). Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste... If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he gives his reference as Joseph Jenkins (why did you cut his message? - I've put it back at the end). See eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg14830.html [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA Which takes you both here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever And here: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html Humanure Handbook: Contents A Guide to Composting Human Manure by Joseph Jenkins I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. What's your big hurry? Anyway it can easily be done in a month or less. These long periods would apply to mesophilic composting. Stoner, Rodale, and indeed Jenkins make allowance for that, many people don't know how to make thermophilic compost, it ends up mesophilic, the next level down with lower temperatures. It works nonetheless, but it takes much longer. Most composting toilet systems are mesophilic. Jenkins uses sawdust toilets and compost bins, which can and should be thermophylic, and many people do know how to make thermophilic compost. We use a sawdust toilet, and at least one of the six half-ton compost bins that process all our farming and household wastes is always
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
Jeez Keith, you may be quicker to point the finger than even myself! C'mon, I wasn't condemning this guys actions...quite to the contrary, I think it's great that he's making efficient use of his own waste...I'm just trying to evaluate the situation. I don't know that much about this subject, so I'm trying to hear/read all arguments for and against. And of course I know that government can be rediculous to deal with christ...I work for the pricks...I know all about beauracracies (sp.) I don't really know where Wes is coming from with his comments, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from humanure unless it was proven beyond a doubt that it was causing direct harm to people, or their environment...which I doubt it would..if done properly. I have some friends that live on a communal land trust (read: commune) close to where I live in northwestern washington state...they've been using hand-dug outdoor privies for as many years as I've known them, and have had no problems that I know of. Ok. Didn't mean to get all defensive like that. I guess that I don't deal well with harsh rebuttals or criticism. Sorry. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C (158 deg F). Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste... If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he gives his reference as Joseph Jenkins (why did you cut his message? - I've put it back at the end). See eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg14830.html [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA Which takes you both here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever And here: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html Humanure Handbook: Contents A Guide to Composting Human Manure by Joseph Jenkins I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib
