I don't usually chime in too much however I did want to point out something. I do agree with looking at safe composting of humanure, my town has specifically said NO to homeowners doing such a thing though... they tested the compost (our Master Gardner program was part of this research) and found that they could not safely tell folks it was ok to use. It did have trace of drugs. They said yes, it would be ok on non food plants, but they are still researching the fruit trees. Tomatoes etc heck no (ie: food bearing plants). So because of the results they banned any use of humanure for any use. It MUST be connected to a sewer or septic tanks. Huge fines and jail time if we don't follow the directions.
I was upset since it was shown in our area (Arizona) that it could be used on non food plants, that it would (the tests showed)be unlikely to make it to our watershed to cause problems. Currently our waters are showing drugs, prozac was the big one. That is because of the city programs and how they make so many mistakes (like accidentally putting sweet water through our drinking water lines then over chlorinating us) I was glad that they scientifically made their choice. They used facts and science, not just oh well I have done it for years and never been sick. I think more research needs to be done. Until then I break the law and do my own composting putting it on non food plants. I think that both sides need to be heard and not attacked here, I appreciate hearing both sides, I do my research on most things, but I always learn something when folks post here... so I do appreciate all of the points of views and comments here. Judy Lynn (dont flame me!) > Wes and Luke > >>I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it >>is a good thing to discourage this fellow. > > I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll > probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further > disappointment, sigh... > >>In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers >>decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately >>other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. >>They could not find a market. > > I wonder what that's got to do with composting. > >>If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that >>medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in >>measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. > > What's that got to do with composting? > >>I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often >>offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I >>always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer >>was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. > > This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable > here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed > topic. > > So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal > pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you > don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this > stuff. > > Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: > http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html > Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden > > And also this (the whole section): > http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html > Composting: Journey to Forever > > As well as this: > > http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html > The work of Sir Albert Howard > > An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard > http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard > > The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by > Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad > http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa > > Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. > > FYI: "... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are > destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic > range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is > subjected to these temperatures". > - From: "Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic > Wastes", Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, > with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter > many alia. > > In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means "with > oxygen", as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) > and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the > temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many > references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C > (158 deg F). > >>Wes >> >> >> >>Luke Hansen >>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 >> >>Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this >>guy is going about composting his waste... > > If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he > gives his reference as "Joseph Jenkins" (why did you cut his message? > - I've put it back at the end). See eg: > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg14830.html > [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA > > Which takes you both here: > http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html > Humanure: Journey to Forever > > And here: > http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html > Humanure Handbook: Contents > A Guide to Composting Human Manure > by Joseph Jenkins > >>I've read a >>little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done >>it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now >>called "Goodbye to the flush toilet..." some late 70's >>idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good >>honest folks think that the system that's in place now >>might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying >>the current administration isn't very efficient...just >>ludicrous. >> >>But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a >>little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, >>Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly >>amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level >>to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a >>minimum of six months. > > What's your big hurry? Anyway it can easily be done in a month or > less. These long periods would apply to mesophilic composting. > Stoner, Rodale, and indeed Jenkins make allowance for that, many > people don't know how to make thermophilic compost, it ends up > mesophilic, the next level down with lower temperatures. It works > nonetheless, but it takes much longer. Most composting toilet systems > are mesophilic. Jenkins uses sawdust toilets and compost bins, which > can and should be thermophylic, and many people do know how to make > thermophilic compost. > > We use a sawdust toilet, and at least one of the six half-ton compost > bins that process all our farming and household "wastes" is always > above 60 deg C (140 deg F), currently 65 C (149 F) after one week, > down from 72 C (162 F) for the first three days. > > I don't spend a lot of time lying awake at night sweating over the > perils of dying from cancer or something because of all the unkilled > faecal pathogens and undecomposed medicines in the homegrown fresh > turnips, new potatoes and chicken we had for dinner last night. In > the case of the veggies, this no doubt foolhardy lack of concern is > confirmed by high refractometer readings, excellent taste, the > plants' freedom from pests, and many (lost) arguments with Muscovy > ducks about why they shouldn't fly into the veg garden for a snack > since there's such great grub in there. > >>And also...what kind of fascist housing authority is >>this guy dealing with...taking his house >>away...hmmm...does he have a history of pissing off >>the neighborhood, or does he just live in some posh >>upperclass development where the Bourgeoisie don't >>want to smell his decomposing shit. > > There is no smell. > > What kind of reasoning is this where you end up finding the guy > guilty already? Must be him, eh? No authority would be that fascist? > Sheesh! > > Keith > > >>Best of luck anyways, > > Previous message: > >>Can anyone help Tom? >> >>He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. >> >>Thanks! >> >>All best >> >>Keith >> >> >> >From: "tom habasco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Subject: humanure to humus >> >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 >> > >> >Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court >> >in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of >> >organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for >> >many decades. >> > Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me >> >to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his >> >book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle >> >illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting >> >humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing >> >fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my >> >defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have >> >no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. >> > How do we convince these youngsters at the so called "health >> >dept's" that composting is safe and a much better approach to our >> >handling of the environment than there septic approach? >> > I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right >> >to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens " >> >under half acre of gardens" and compost including humanure.If I fail >> >at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved >> >away by them at my cost. >> > This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance >> >that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support >> >me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by >> >becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. >> > Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007, > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
