[biofuel] cars in the developing world
Here in the Philippines, light diesel trucks and vans, and even diesel cars, are very popular. Their fuel is somewhat cheaper, and their engines are longer-lived. Most of the commercial jeepneys that provide in-and-around transport services in cities are diesels. Unfortunately, many diesels are fitted with oversize injectors or their pumps are jiggered to increase delivery and get more power. This of course causes soot formation, which never happens to a properly tuned diesel except during high load operation. As a result, the intelligentsia (ignorant people with political influence) are putting pressure on the authorities to persecute diesels. The same pressure exerted on commercial operators to perform proper maintenance would have a favorable effect, but banning diesels will increase pollution by replacing diesels with less efficient spark-ignition engines, which can also tolerate much more neglect than diesels before ceasing to run entirely. I keep a count of smoke-belchers (blue smoke and black smoke) and despite the cowboy jeepney operators the majority of the offenders are still gasoline engines. When a diesel's rings and valves wear beyond a certain point, there isn't enough compression to keep them running; at that point, they HAVE to be fixed. Gasoline engine operators just put in thicker oil, retune for a richer mixture and go on polluting. Marc de Piolenc Iligan City, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
From: Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marc, am also from the Philippines. Are you now in Iligan City? How do you cope up with the smoke that comes out of diesel engines? My friend uses an additive and it reduces smoke. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] cars in the developing world
Hello, I'm new to this list and to biodiesel in general--I read about biodiesel in last week's Seattle Times, where Mike Pelly and his amazing gizmo was profiled. I always liked diesels, especially the new ones, but biodiesel is great, much better, more liberating than any alternative fuel I've heard of. I'm wondering anyone knows of any surveys that mention vehicle use in the developing world. Basically, people in Africa, Asia, the Americas--what do they drive? What's the diesel market share as compared to gasoline, or ethanol, or paraffin, or who-knows-what-else? Also, can anyone point me to an emissions comparison of biodiesel to gasoline? Thanks all, Dan Dan Hale, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~dhale/pgp-key Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
I think the developing world would be better off to MINIMIZE its use of cars and avoid the carnage and cost here. I read a UN article on India ca. 1990 which called it a nation of villages. If they could perfect the village as a habitat and then perfect inter-village transportation other than by cars as we know them, they would have a better society. POC On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Daniel Hale wrote: Hello, I'm new to this list and to biodiesel in general--I read about biodiesel in last week's Seattle Times, where Mike Pelly and his amazing gizmo was profiled. I always liked diesels, especially the new ones, but biodiesel is great, much better, more liberating than any alternative fuel I've heard of. I'm wondering anyone knows of any surveys that mention vehicle use in the developing world. Basically, people in Africa, Asia, the Americas--what do they drive? What's the diesel market share as compared to gasoline, or ethanol, or paraffin, or who-knows-what-else? Also, can anyone point me to an emissions comparison of biodiesel to gasoline? Thanks all, Dan Dan Hale, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~dhale/pgp-key Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
No argument here. However, there is still a rolling stock of automobiles in developing nations, and I'd like to understand those cars better. Thanks Dan On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 04:38 PM, Party of Citizens wrote: I think the developing world would be better off to MINIMIZE its use of cars and avoid the carnage and cost here. I read a UN article on India ca. 1990 which called it a nation of villages. If they could perfect the village as a habitat and then perfect inter-village transportation other than by cars as we know them, they would have a better society. POC On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Daniel Hale wrote: Hello, I'm new to this list and to biodiesel in general--I read about biodiesel in last week's Seattle Times, where Mike Pelly and his amazing gizmo was profiled. I always liked diesels, especially the new ones, but biodiesel is great, much better, more liberating than any alternative fuel I've heard of. I'm wondering anyone knows of any surveys that mention vehicle use in the developing world. Basically, people in Africa, Asia, the Americas--what do they drive? What's the diesel market share as compared to gasoline, or ethanol, or paraffin, or who-knows-what-else? Also, can anyone point me to an emissions comparison of biodiesel to gasoline? Thanks all, Dan Dan Hale, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~dhale/pgp-key Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Dan Hale, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Privacy is not a crime! Use PGP encryption: http://www.pobox.com/~dhale/pgp-key Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
I think the developing world would be better off to MINIMIZE its use of cars and avoid the carnage and cost here. I read a UN article on India ca. 1990 which called it a nation of villages. If they could perfect the village as a habitat and then perfect inter-village transportation other than by cars as we know them, they would have a better society. POC Bit late for that. There are huge cities in India, and in other 3rd World countries, with dreadful traffic problems and pollution problems. There are anti-diesel campaigns in quite a few of these cities, including smaller ones too, such as Kathmandu in Nepal, and in Beirut, IIRC. This might give you an idea. http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/04/08/india.chaos/ Delhi hit by diesel-free chaos April 9, 2002 Posted: 10:18 AM HKT (0218 GMT) Commuters board a Compressed Natural Gas bus run by the Delhi Transport Corporation From Suhasini Haidar CNN New Delhi NEW DELHI, India -- For residents of India's capital of New Delhi, Monday morning blues took on a new meaning. As they tried to get to work people had to push and shove to get onto the few buses that came their way. On Friday, India's Supreme Court ordered all buses running on diesel off the streets, allowing only those burning environmentally friendly compressed natural gas or CNG. That means New Delhi's public transport company, the Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC), can now only operate half of its fleet of about 11,000 buses. The remainder will have to stay parked until they too are converted to CNG. 'Double the time' CNN's Suhasin Haidar says a ban on diesel-powered buses is causing commuter chaos in New Delhi The move has sparked a commuter chaos, making workers late for work. Schools too have been closed to deal with the shutdown. There are fewer buses and it takes us double the time to get to our offices, said commuter Vinit Khanna. Everyday we have to hear from our bosses about being late, none of which is our fault. The Delhi government says it isn't at fault either, and has closed schools for two days, until it finds a solution to the chaos. I would like to appeal to each of you in this moment of crisis, in this hour of crisis which has come about because of the orders of the court, all of us must get together and help each other out, said Shiela Dixit from the Delhi government. The government is asking people to car-pool as much as they can, especially since public buses are the only form of mass transport here. With 13 million people, Delhi is one of the world's most populated cities, and until recently had the world's fourth highest level of air pollution. The Supreme Court says its decision to allow only CNG-run buses could inconvenience Delhi's commuters for a while, but in the long run it could save them from all sorts of health problems by giving them cleaner air. http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86%257E10669%257E861275,00.html Tri-Valley Herald Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:17:50 AM MST New Delhi traffic en route to a fix? Technocrat's dream of rapid-transit rails and subway could relieve city's jams By Tim Sullivan Associated Press NEW DELHI -- It's evening rush hour on the New Delhi stretch of the Grand Trunk Road, the centuries-old highway that slices through the Indian subcontinent, and things are fairly normal. If that's what you'd call it. Horns blare, buses bursting with passengers spew clouds of rancid fumes, bicycles and motorized rickshaws weave through a thicket of trucks, cars and horse carts. Off to one side, oblivious to the chaos, a bicycle-rickshaw driver sleeps soundly, feet on his handlebars. He's the only peaceful sight around. Transportation here, we have some problems, shrugged Aziz Narvi, a doctor walking home along the road. Most of the time I'm afraid to drive. But things are changing in New Delhi, with a transportation technocrat preaching a gospel of rapid-transit rails and even a subway through the city's hyper-congested, ancient heart. People will come over to our system, said E. Sreedharan, the managing director of Delhi Metro Rail Corp., ticking off the promises of his soon-to-open network: the ease of travel, the safety, the lack of pollution. System may be complete in 2005 A new commuter railway line -- an aboveground line in this neighborhood -- is being built parallel to the Grand Trunk, and more lines are going up around the capital, where 16 million people and 4 million vehicles, more than half two-wheelers of various sorts, fight for space in the crush of traffic. In December, the first five miles of the planned 37-mile commuter rail network is scheduled to open. By late 2005, the entire system is supposed to be working, including seven miles of subways under downtown New Delhi. The rest will either be surface or elevated rails. Up to 2 million riders are expected to use the system daily. And maybe, just maybe, it will work. Surprised?
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
Keith, how does biodiesel compare to CNG, from an emissions standpoint? Has anyone projected, say, the 10-year emissions ROI (return on investment) in converting a diesel to CNG, and compared that to the ROI for running biodiesel unmodified? Thanks Dan On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 04:53 PM, Keith Addison wrote: I think the developing world would be better off to MINIMIZE its use of cars and avoid the carnage and cost here. I read a UN article on India ca. 1990 which called it a nation of villages. If they could perfect the village as a habitat and then perfect inter-village transportation other than by cars as we know them, they would have a better society. POC Bit late for that. There are huge cities in India, and in other 3rd World countries, with dreadful traffic problems and pollution problems. There are anti-diesel campaigns in quite a few of these cities, including smaller ones too, such as Kathmandu in Nepal, and in Beirut, IIRC. This might give you an idea. http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/04/08/india.chaos/ Delhi hit by diesel-free chaos April 9, 2002 Posted: 10:18 AM HKT (0218 GMT) Commuters board a Compressed Natural Gas bus run by the Delhi Transport Corporation From Suhasini Haidar CNN New Delhi NEW DELHI, India -- For residents of India's capital of New Delhi, Monday morning blues took on a new meaning. As they tried to get to work people had to push and shove to get onto the few buses that came their way. On Friday, India's Supreme Court ordered all buses running on diesel off the streets, allowing only those burning environmentally friendly compressed natural gas or CNG. That means New Delhi's public transport company, the Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC), can now only operate half of its fleet of about 11,000 buses. The remainder will have to stay parked until they too are converted to CNG. 'Double the time' CNN's Suhasin Haidar says a ban on diesel-powered buses is causing commuter chaos in New Delhi The move has sparked a commuter chaos, making workers late for work. Schools too have been closed to deal with the shutdown. There are fewer buses and it takes us double the time to get to our offices, said commuter Vinit Khanna. Everyday we have to hear from our bosses about being late, none of which is our fault. The Delhi government says it isn't at fault either, and has closed schools for two days, until it finds a solution to the chaos. I would like to appeal to each of you in this moment of crisis, in this hour of crisis which has come about because of the orders of the court, all of us must get together and help each other out, said Shiela Dixit from the Delhi government. The government is asking people to car-pool as much as they can, especially since public buses are the only form of mass transport here. With 13 million people, Delhi is one of the world's most populated cities, and until recently had the world's fourth highest level of air pollution. The Supreme Court says its decision to allow only CNG-run buses could inconvenience Delhi's commuters for a while, but in the long run it could save them from all sorts of health problems by giving them cleaner air. http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86%257E10669%257E861275,00. html Tri-Valley Herald Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:17:50 AM MST New Delhi traffic en route to a fix? Technocrat's dream of rapid-transit rails and subway could relieve city's jams By Tim Sullivan Associated Press NEW DELHI -- It's evening rush hour on the New Delhi stretch of the Grand Trunk Road, the centuries-old highway that slices through the Indian subcontinent, and things are fairly normal. If that's what you'd call it. Horns blare, buses bursting with passengers spew clouds of rancid fumes, bicycles and motorized rickshaws weave through a thicket of trucks, cars and horse carts. Off to one side, oblivious to the chaos, a bicycle-rickshaw driver sleeps soundly, feet on his handlebars. He's the only peaceful sight around. Transportation here, we have some problems, shrugged Aziz Narvi, a doctor walking home along the road. Most of the time I'm afraid to drive. But things are changing in New Delhi, with a transportation technocrat preaching a gospel of rapid-transit rails and even a subway through the city's hyper-congested, ancient heart. People will come over to our system, said E. Sreedharan, the managing director of Delhi Metro Rail Corp., ticking off the promises of his soon-to-open network: the ease of travel, the safety, the lack of pollution. System may be complete in 2005 A new commuter railway line -- an aboveground line in this neighborhood -- is being built parallel to the Grand Trunk, and more lines are going up around the capital, where 16 million people and 4 million vehicles, more than half two-wheelers of various sorts, fight for space in the crush of traffic. In December,
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
Keith, how does biodiesel compare to CNG, from an emissions standpoint? Has anyone projected, say, the 10-year emissions ROI (return on investment) in converting a diesel to CNG, and compared that to the ROI for running biodiesel unmodified? Thanks Dan Dan, you'll find a lot of info and resources if you prowl around the Journey to Forever Biofuels section a bit, and in the list archives, both reffed at the bottom of each message. These below might help - biodiesel emissions are easy to find. CNG is not completely safe and environment-friendly. Its GG emissions are the same as or worse than other fossil fuels. A Harvard study found it may generate more ultrafine particles than petro-diesel, of less than 0.1 micron, which are more harmful than fine particles. The study also found that it increases emissions, of C02, and of methane, which is approximately 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. Harvard press release: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press1102000.html Complete copy of the report (PDF, 205 KB): http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organizations/hcra/diesel/diesel.pdf http://www.dieselforum.org/news/apr_19_2002.html Diesel Technology Forum -- News Releases CA Study Defies Conventional Thinking About Clean Fuels: Diesel Tops Natural Gas As Cleaner http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr041802.htm News Release: 2002-04-18 -- Diesel and CNG Bus Emissions http://www.greendieseltechnology.com/news24.html International¨ Green Diesel Technologyª Vehicles Clean Diesels Less A Cancer Threat Than CNG: More Proof. ( by Jack Peckham, Diesel Fuel News, September 11, 2000) http://www.greendieseltechnology.com/news72.html International¨ Green Diesel Technologyª Vehicles Toxicologist 'Appalled' At Ignoring CNG Risk Diesel Fuel News, April 16, 2001 By: Jack Peckham http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020424-70254664.htm Study gives edge to clean-diesel buses By Brian DeBose THE WASHINGTON TIMES April 24, 2002 http://www.teriin.org/features/art93.htm A hasty decision, clean diesel is a better bet A hasty decision, clean diesel is a better bet R K Pachauri The Hindustan Times, 8 April 2001 [Dead link] CNG and Clean Diesel Fueled Vehicles An Economic Comparison The South Coast Air Quality Management District staff has proposed banning new diesel fueled vehicles and replacing them with vehicles using compressed natural gas (CNG) or other alternative fueled vehicles. Low sulfur diesel fuel, coupled with after-treatment (Clean Diesel), provides comparable particulate emissions to compressed natural gas (CNG) vehicles. However, clean diesel and after-treatment can achieve this beneficial emission performance much more cost-effectively than CNG. Lower Operating and Maintenance Costs for Clean Diesel Compared With CNG * The US Government Accounting Office recently reported that operating and maintenance costs - in addition to large up-front investments - are higher for CNG buses. Despite great strides by engine manufacturers, the report states, CNG buses' engine and fuel system[s] will likely remain less reliable than these components in diesel buses for the foreseeable future. Clean Diesel More Cost-Effective than CNG in Reducing Air Pollution Significantly higher expenses for CNG vehicles and infrastructure were also found in a February 2000 study by Sierra Research. This study determined that the cost-effectiveness ratio (i.e., the cost per ton of emissions removed) was 4 to 11 times lower for clean diesel as compared to CNG. Even the South Coast Air Quality Management District's own assessment acknowledges higher costs for the use of CNG fleets. * In a study commissioned by the California Transit Association, high costs to purchase and operate CNG buses were also reported: a. Replacing all diesel buses with CNG would cost $627.5 million more than fleet replacement with clean diesel; b. Infrastructure costs are estimated at about $4 million for fueling and $500,000 for maintenance modifications for every 200 CNG vehicles purchased; c. Prorated, infrastructure costs add approximately $22,500 to the purchase price of every CNG bus; d. Fleet replacement with clean diesel would allow transit operators statewide to purchase a total of 2,324 more transit buses over 11 years than if CNG replacement were required. * According to a recent Los Angeles County MTA report on fuel strategies, the cost to operate relatively new CNG buses was approximately 40% higher than the cost to operate 1988 diesel buses. Even the more optimistic projections for future operating cost comparisons between new diesel and new CNG buses still showed a 29% higher cost per mile to operate CNG buses. Clean Diesel Vehicles Found to be More Reliable * According to the same Los Angeles County MTA report on fuel strategies, the number of engine and fuel system road calls on the CNG buses was 40% higher than for the older diesel buses. Real World Impact of CNG
