[Biofuel] Food for thought.
I have met this man and can vouch for his naval background and period of service in nuclear submarines but this is the first time he has mentioned this. He is now in his eighties, very lucid and up with the play. He retired early with definitely negative views on US.geopolitics, converted to Islam, married a very warm and charming Muslim woman and they now live in Malaysia. For fifteen years I was a working, AEC and USN certified and licensed Water Cooler Reactor Engineer, Operator and Watch Supervisor. I know with an engineers certainty that you cannot make a water cooler reactor go supercritical to the point at which it will explode. We tried to do that a number of times early on back in the late fifties in Idaho, and we simply could not do it. All we got were meltdowns, which were not very spectacular at all on the scale of Fukushima and, without the Press spectacularization and sensationalization of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and wherever, not at all spectacular or frightening. Messy, and a bit of work to clean up, true, but nothing dangerous or out of the ordinary. I knew most of the men involved, and we have all lived rather long and healthy lives ever since, except for th statistical norms who were involved in other mishaps such as sinking submarines, speeding autos, and perhaps an irate husband or two. We could never even simulate or stimulate anything like a China Syndrome which proved Jane full of shit. The biggest difference with what we did experimentally in Idaho and what happened in subsequent Power Plant disasters was the presence of the press and public exposure. We were a closed US Naval Installation, and we kept it that way. None of the men were sworn to secrecy or ordered to keep quiet, they simply did not seem to think that anything we were doing was very exciting or worth discussing. The Press has a tendency to magnify and spectacular! If there was a nuclear explosion or an uncontrolled nuclear event at Fukushima, then it was not the reactor! Note; a high intensity chemical explosion within a nuclear reactor core might make quite a mess, which is why the hydrogen was always such a problem. And, it was also why nuclear reactor containments were built with very heavy and thick steel and concrete walls. It has been my experience that just getting a nuclear reactor up to criticality, and keeping it hot and running was some sort of superhuman miracle... making it go bang would be and is physically, (in the nuclear physics sense) impossible. The negative temperature coefficient of the water reflector and shield are physically ordered to prevent this by immutable laws of physics and thermodynamics. This is not only my personal testimony... it is the official testimony of every Nuclear Physicist and Engineer who has ever worked or written about Nuclear weapons and Nuclear power systems. There is a great difference between the two, and to make either one happen, or do what it is designed to do, is immensely more difficulty a task to make happen than to prevent. I have lived and worked with professionals in both of these fields. Earlaiman _ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20120113/597eee4a/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Food for thought - and for the body
I thought a few peoplemightlike this. The Urban Aquaculture Manual http://www.webofcreation.org/Building-and-grounds/aqua/Chap1.html Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Hakan Falk said: http://www.undp.org/ of special interest is, Human Development Report 2003 http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/ Thanks, I'll read these pages. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Dan, I do not know when and where he visited in Finland, if he did it at all. I do nor recognize his description and it is no support for it in the Finnish statistics. In general the Nordic countries have less inhabitants per room than US. To get a picture of the real situation, United Nations Development Programme reports are here, http://www.undp.org/ of special interest is, Human Development Report 2003 http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/ In Sweden and in Finland, it is some parts of Helsinki and Stockholm, that became some sort of immigrant centers and this is a difficult problem. This problem is common for all larger cities in Europe and it is considerable efforts done to improve the adaptation of the immigrants to their new environment. A problem that is also common in the US. Hakan At 21:13 31/12/2003, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) That sounds like the human eqv. of a battery box chicken coup. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeardhttp://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
I agree with bryan. At present here in Massachusette r-19 walls and r-30 ceiling are on average the minimum. New construction and additions/renovations require a Masscheckenergy audit form(available online). this system allows you to trade off less insulation for more efficient heating systems. or more efficient windows. whatever you need for the situation. What to note is they are looking at the house as a system as well as defining minimum levels of construction details. r-values alone are not an accurate measure. I believe the construction industry is and has been moving to a unified building code. this allows for regional demands and practices. Local inspectors are still the interpreters and inforcers. thank you, joseph Message: 12 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:08:22 -0600 From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: food for thought Would this law arbitrarily apply to EVERY new building nationwide? What about Hawaii, where many people don't have heat or AC, and drafty, semi-permeable walls are desirable? If you can grant an exemption for Hawaiians, then why not for Floridians? Even if the law was passed, how do you propose enforcing it? Currently building code enforcement is a local jurisdictional responsibility which many communities' may resent being usurped by the federal government. Additionally, building inspection departments in small communities could be overburdened by additional inspection requirements. An unfunded federal mandate of this nature would exasperate state and local budget shortfalls unless there was some provision to pay for additional inspectors with federal tax money. Assuming that you could overcome these problems, there would still be the problem of fair application of the law. Since building codes are local, they vary widely. In some communities, building a new structure utilizing even a single wall of an existing structure constitutes a remodel, even if the rest of the structure is demolished. To avoid this problem you would have to Federalize all local building codes to prevent builders from skirting the law by declaring their projects remodels rather than new constriction. Then there is the question of penalties. Since it would be a federal crime to build a wall that is not R45, does the commercial construction company building an office complex incur the same penalty as the back-to-nature guy building a cabin from salvage and scrap lumber? Sorry, but the only food for thought your suggestion provides is pie in the sky. We're not going to find solutions to any of our problems in new laws, particularly one-size-fits-all federal laws. If you insist on a government solution, then offer meaningful tax incentives to those individuals and companies that build responsibly. -BRAH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] food for thought In a message dated 12/29/2003 9:55:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Hi Joseph, At 13:06 01/01/2004, you wrote: I agree with bryan. At present here in Massachusette r-19 walls and r-30 ceiling are on average the minimum. New construction and additions/renovations require a Masscheckenergy audit form(available online). this system allows you to trade off less insulation for more efficient heating systems. or more efficient windows. whatever you need for the situation. What to note is they are looking at the house as a system as well as defining minimum levels of construction details. r-values alone are not an accurate measure. Good, It is nice to hear it from someone else. Hakan I believe the construction industry is and has been moving to a unified building code. this allows for regional demands and practices. Local inspectors are still the interpreters and inforcers. thank you, joseph Message: 12 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:08:22 -0600 From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: food for thought Would this law arbitrarily apply to EVERY new building nationwide? What about Hawaii, where many people don't have heat or AC, and drafty, semi-permeable walls are desirable? If you can grant an exemption for Hawaiians, then why not for Floridians? Even if the law was passed, how do you propose enforcing it? Currently building code enforcement is a local jurisdictional responsibility which many communities' may resent being usurped by the federal government. Additionally, building inspection departments in small communities could be overburdened by additional inspection requirements. An unfunded federal mandate of this nature would exasperate state and local budget shortfalls unless there was some provision to pay for additional inspectors with federal tax money. Assuming that you could overcome these problems, there would still be the problem of fair application of the law. Since building codes are local, they vary widely. In some communities, building a new structure utilizing even a single wall of an existing structure constitutes a remodel, even if the rest of the structure is demolished. To avoid this problem you would have to Federalize all local building codes to prevent builders from skirting the law by declaring their projects remodels rather than new constriction. Then there is the question of penalties. Since it would be a federal crime to build a wall that is not R45, does the commercial construction company building an office complex incur the same penalty as the back-to-nature guy building a cabin from salvage and scrap lumber? Sorry, but the only food for thought your suggestion provides is pie in the sky. We're not going to find solutions to any of our problems in new laws, particularly one-size-fits-all federal laws. If you insist on a government solution, then offer meaningful tax incentives to those individuals and companies that build responsibly. -BRAH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] food for thought In a message dated 12/29/2003 9:55:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Steve wrote: Have another dumb question which someone might have a few thoughts on.. When they take one of the electric plants offline that is really badly polluting... Why do they just throw the generators away. As far as I know, the technology of these big generators has not really changed radiically over the years. Burn something.. make steam.. run a turbine turbine turns the generator.. bing... out comes electricity. Actually, IIRC, most of the time when a plant gets decomissioned the equipment usually gets sold as surplus, burners, boilers, turbines, generators and all. There is a worldwide market for such stuff, and power companies will always take advantage of anything that adds to the bottom line. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Bryan Brah wrote: Would this law arbitrarily apply to EVERY new building nationwide? What about Hawaii, where many people don't have heat or AC, and drafty, semi-permeable walls are desirable? If you can grant an exemption for Hawaiians, then why not for Floridians? No, you do NOT want to engineer in a loophole for Floridians. The way people use air conditioners down here, many of them don't even know how to open their windows. Some new houses are built with windows that _don't_ open. Some kids don't even know that windows can be openned. The problem is we have too many transplanted Yankees moving into the state, and they all complain about how hot it gets down here. I have a solution for them: Go back up North. Instead, they crank down their air conditioning units to subarctic levels and leave them there whether or not they are home, to the point that they suck up all of our power grid's reserves on hot days. An unfunded federal mandate of this nature would exasperate state and local budget shortfalls unless there was some provision to pay for additional inspectors with federal tax money. Indeed. And we have WAY too many unfunded mandates already. Assuming that you could overcome these problems, there would still be the problem of fair application of the law. Since building codes are local, they vary widely. In some communities, building a new structure utilizing even a single wall of an existing structure constitutes a remodel, even if the rest of the structure is demolished. Indeed. This is how people down here get around the restriction on new building in hurricane zones. They can't knock down the old house and build a new one, so they build a new one around the old one, use some of the old house's structure in the new house, and demolish the rest. This is how we've gone from hundred-thousand dollar houses to milti-million dollar houses in hurricane zones, just waiting for the next big storm to wash them into the Gulf, so that their owners can get low interest FEMA loans to build even bigger houses. Sorry, but the only food for thought your suggestion provides is pie in the sky. We're not going to find solutions to any of our problems in new laws, particularly one-size-fits-all federal laws. No doubt. Those one-size-fits-all laws almost always don't. If you insist on a government solution, then offer meaningful tax incentives to those individuals and companies that build responsibly. Yes. Apply the carrot instead of the stick. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
In a message dated 12/29/2003 9:55:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] food for thought
Would this law arbitrarily apply to EVERY new building nationwide? What about Hawaii, where many people don't have heat or AC, and drafty, semi-permeable walls are desirable? If you can grant an exemption for Hawaiians, then why not for Floridians? Even if the law was passed, how do you propose enforcing it? Currently building code enforcement is a local jurisdictional responsibility which many communities' may resent being usurped by the federal government. Additionally, building inspection departments in small communities could be overburdened by additional inspection requirements. An unfunded federal mandate of this nature would exasperate state and local budget shortfalls unless there was some provision to pay for additional inspectors with federal tax money. Assuming that you could overcome these problems, there would still be the problem of fair application of the law. Since building codes are local, they vary widely. In some communities, building a new structure utilizing even a single wall of an existing structure constitutes a remodel, even if the rest of the structure is demolished. To avoid this problem you would have to Federalize all local building codes to prevent builders from skirting the law by declaring their projects remodels rather than new constriction. Then there is the question of penalties. Since it would be a federal crime to build a wall that is not R45, does the commercial construction company building an office complex incur the same penalty as the back-to-nature guy building a cabin from salvage and scrap lumber? Sorry, but the only food for thought your suggestion provides is pie in the sky. We're not going to find solutions to any of our problems in new laws, particularly one-size-fits-all federal laws. If you insist on a government solution, then offer meaningful tax incentives to those individuals and companies that build responsibly. -BRAH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] food for thought In a message dated 12/29/2003 9:55:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: When last I was in Finland, they lived 2.6 people per room in large state-run apartment complexes, a Green dream for saving energy, particularly with no elevators. Let's just pass a law ;-) That sounds like the human eqv. of a battery box chicken coup. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] food for thought
Since I imagine most here are really interested in both conservation and working towards keeping the world (even if that is just your back yard) renewable... Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. Have another dumb question which someone might have a few thoughts on.. When they take one of the electric plants offline that is really badly polluting... Why do they just throw the generators away. As far as I know, the technology of these big generators has not really changed radiically over the years. Burn something.. make steam.. run a turbine turbine turns the generator.. bing... out comes electricity. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food for thought
Steve, Sweden does not exactly goes as far as R45 walls, but looks what happens with only the old (pre 1978) Swedish standards, http://energy.saving.nu/buildingcodes/buildingcodedev.shtml Hakan At 23:39 29/12/2003, you wrote: Since I imagine most here are really interested in both conservation and working towards keeping the world (even if that is just your back yard) renewable... Just imagine if the building codes in this country were changed so that every new building had to be whole wall rated at R45... how much coal burning could be eliminated by making such a small change. So much so that over time a lot of the really horribly polluting electric plants that run on coal could be decommissioned. Have another dumb question which someone might have a few thoughts on.. When they take one of the electric plants offline that is really badly polluting... Why do they just throw the generators away. As far as I know, the technology of these big generators has not really changed radiically over the years. Burn something.. make steam.. run a turbine turbine turns the generator.. bing... out comes electricity. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become FeedlotsoftheSea 12-28-02
I feel the same way about this social pressure.Almost as if it's (the pressure) being used as (quite an effective) substitute for the secret police used to keep the dissenters quiet. Who needs the secret police ... when Aunt Meg, Uncle Fred and Cousin Jim will just as effectively do the job for free?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's sad, really, that in a country of supposedly free people, I find an inordinate amount of social pressure to keep silent about my dissent. The fact that I don't is, in my view, the mark of an individual raised in a free country. There seem to be very few people questioning the American political leadership these days. That seems a dangerous thing. . . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought
Keith Addison wrote: Anyway, hadn't you guys over there better start thinking about taking your country back? Please??? Regards Keith We'd love to, but by the time we actually GET to vote, the decent candidates have been long outspent by the political machine that perpetuates business as usual. Yes, that's one of the main things you have to take back. Worse, many of us have been so brainwashed into believing the swill that spews forth from Washington that our hackles raise whenever anyone questions the wisdom of a given policy. ... and that's what a LOT of all that campaign money, and various other ill-gotten gains gets spent on - PR and spin. One effect seems to be a really unnatural level of this divisive, us-vs-them, common bipolar disorder thinking that simply shoves a dissenting view, whatever its merits, into the enemy camp. If you're not for us you're against us. This is not how confident, secure, independent, mature people behave. When I forwarded the article posted here on SUV tax breaks to friends and family, I received the NASTIEST responses from people who are RELATED to me! It seems they actually believe that Mr. Bush and his administration truly have the best interest of America in mind whenever they dream up a policy. (And I get continually reminded that I didn't vote for him!) It's sad, really, that in a country of supposedly free people, I find an inordinate amount of social pressure to keep silent about my dissent. The fact that I don't is, in my view, the mark of an individual raised in a free country. There seem to be very few people questioning the American political leadership these days. That seems a dangerous thing. . . I get the impression that a hell of a lot of Americans are questioning it, and rejecting it, more and more loudly, but that the mainstream media don't at all reflect that (despite their alleged left-wing bias - LOL!). Here at home, alternative media--not just the Internet, but video and community access TV; community, low power, and pirate radio; zines and community newspapers; and political music, dance, and art--are flourishing under the radar. New and revived forms of organizing are energizing people not interested in traditional petitions, lobbying of Congress or the White House, marches, meetings, and the Same Old Chants. The phenomenal early December turnout at Garfield High School, where some 2,000 activists turned out specifically to sign up for volunteer work, is an obvious example. So was the euphoric student walk-out and march that week, organized and led almost entirely by high school students. Is evil afoot these days? Yep, and the omnicidal bipartisan stampede in Washington (and the greedy bastards they work for) have a corner on the market. But that has the advantage of letting us know where our work lies. There's lots to do, and plenty of reasons to believe it can and will matter; the outcome is clear only when we choose to stand idly by. Here's to regime change at home in 2003. - Geov Parrish, Peace on Earth: Maybe Next Year http://eatthestate.org/07-09/PeaceonEarth.htm Apt New Year toast. Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought
Keith writes: Anyway, hadn't you guys over there better start thinking about taking your country back? Please??? Great idea, but hard to do when the Democrats haven't got anyone to offer but a bunch of uninspiring wimps who would've been called Republicans back in the good ol' days :-). I think, as usual, it has to get worse before it'll get better.-K No, I meant take it back, not just give it to the other lot. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become FeedlotsoftheSea 12-28-02
You guys need to read The New Thought Police by Tammy Bruce. You guys ain't seen nothing yet! Jonathan Fairbanks East Tawas, MI --- csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel the same way about this social pressure. Almost as if it's (the pressure) being used as (quite an effective) substitute for the secret police used to keep the dissenters quiet. Who needs the secret police ... when Aunt Meg, Uncle Fred and Cousin Jim will just as effectively do the job for free?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's sad, really, that in a country of supposedly free people, I find an inordinate amount of social pressure to keep silent about my dissent. The fact that I don't is, in my view, the mark of an individual raised in a free country. There seem to be very few people questioning the American political leadership these days. That seems a dangerous thing. . . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought
You guys need to read The New Thought Police by Tammy Bruce. You guys ain't seen nothing yet! Jonathan Fairbanks East Tawas, MI Uh... The left control the media and are working towards the downfall of America, etc etc, according to Ms Bruce. What a joke. Rupert Murdoch, eg, well-known left-wing pinko running-dog - damn, he's virtually an (AARGGHHH!) Socialist! Or maybe he's just too dumb to notice that his journalists are working against his interests all the time, or he doesn't really mind because he's such a sweet old uncle. Take him out and have him shot, Tammy Bruce, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh et al can pass a hat round to pay for the bullets. Ms Bruce and her book are a bizarre load of hysterical BS. I suppose you believe Ronald Bailey and Steve Milloy too. From Lomborg to Limbaugh, sheesh, it does nothing to raise the tone of the place, mumble mumble... Behind these particular scenes one finds lurking the likes of L. Brent Bozell III and his far-rightwing Media Research Center, Inc., funded to the tune of $15 million a year by right-wing foundations like the Scaife, Bradley, Olin and Donner foundations, various corporations and wealthy Republican donors, all the usual suspects, and Bozell himself gets a quarter-million a year. I guess they get their money's worth. On the MRC advisory boards are well-known bias-free figures such as Elliot Abrams, Mona Charen, Pete DuPont, Rush Limbaugh. The MRC sends e-mail alerts throughout the day to its list of over 11,000 followers who can then rain complaints onto ABC, NBC, CBS and other media that aren't toeing the correct line on Iraq and other issues, along with the constant cant of left-wing media bias. The bothering thing is that people believe it, fact-free foundations regardless. I think *you* need to read Trudy Lieberman's Slanting the Story: the Forces that Shape the News (The New Press, 2000), on the enormous influence right-wing think tanks like The Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, the National Center for Policy Analysis etc have over government policy, yet their activities go unscrutinized and underreported. No doubt because of all that left-wing media bias, yes, that must be the reason. Book Excerpt Slanting the Story, Part 1 - Black Holes Of Power http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4155 Book Excerpt Slanting the Story, Part 2 - Ralph Nader And The Right http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4156 Book Excerpt Slanting the Story, Part 3 - Courting The Press http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4192 Book Excerpt Slanting the Story, Part 4 - Clubbing The Press http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4219 Book Excerpt Slanting the Story, Part 5 - Advancing A Cause: Remaking Medicare http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4248 Keith --- csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel the same way about this social pressure. Almost as if it's (the pressure) being used as (quite an effective) substitute for the secret police used to keep the dissenters quiet. Who needs the secret police ... when Aunt Meg, Uncle Fred and Cousin Jim will just as effectively do the job for free?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's sad, really, that in a country of supposedly free people, I find an inordinate amount of social pressure to keep silent about my dissent. The fact that I don't is, in my view, the mark of an individual raised in a free country. There seem to be very few people questioning the American political leadership these days. That seems a dangerous thing. . . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlotsof the Sea 12-28-02
Keith Addison wrote: Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Now here's a thing a lot of Americans just can't seem to see straight, too much us and them. Get their knickers in a knot over socialists - AARGGHHH! (check under your beds! lock the doors! hang wild garlic in the windows!) - and somehow not notice that some of the most advanced and equitable, the sanest and probably best societies in many ways, are socialist states, like the Scandinavian countries. Their citizens certainly seem to think so. Meanwhile they also don't seem to notice that the land of the free seems to have been thoroughly purloined, and its cherished institutions, rights and constitutions with it - all the meaningless little bits of paper - by a bunch of maniacal corporate thugs. Well, that's how these bugaboos work. Indeed. Just witness the Oil Wars in the middle east, the copyright wars over file sharing and Napster and its progeny, and all of the corporate monopoly building and government buying by organizations such as Micro$oft. The Macarthy era's long over, you know... or is it? Fortunately the MacCarthy era is gone, and unlamented. Unfortunately the Dubya era has replaced it. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlotsof the Sea 12-28-02
Hi Alan Keith Addison wrote: Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Now here's a thing a lot of Americans just can't seem to see straight, too much us and them. Get their knickers in a knot over socialists - AARGGHHH! (check under your beds! lock the doors! hang wild garlic in the windows!) - and somehow not notice that some of the most advanced and equitable, the sanest and probably best societies in many ways, are socialist states, like the Scandinavian countries. Their citizens certainly seem to think so. I also think so. Unfortunately American reportage on Europe often is fraught with half-truths and Hogan's Heroes stereotyping. And this in turn has led to profound misunderstandings between the two continents. For instance, rarely do American journalists point out that Europeans still enjoy free health care for all, cradle to grave; free education through university level; comparatively generous retirement for their elderly; an average of five weeks paid annual vacation, more sick leave, parental leave, and a shorter work week with comparable wages for their workers (French workers, with their 35 hour work week, work nearly a full day less per week than American workers, who now work on average 42 hours per week). Social spending in Europe runs some 50 percent above that in the United States. Environmental, food safety, and labor laws are the envy of activists in the US. In fact, what was lost upon the US media is that the leaders and political parties known as the far right in Europe for the most part do not seek to overturn the European social state or its proactive government regulation. On the contrary, they accept its existence to a degree even the Democratic Party doesn't accept today. In some countries the far right parties attained their recent electoral successes by defending the welfare state that the center-left parties had been rolling back the last few years. Their leaders called for things like a re-commitment to quality public health care, elderly care, mass transit, subsidized housing, and the protection of the public pension and education systems. Thus, in many respects, Europe's multiparty politics do not fit the old left-right axis typically employed by American journalists. It's comparing apples and oranges. Yet American media routinely fails to distinguish these unique political characteristics of the European landscape. http://eatthestate.org/07-09/upsdownsEuropean.htm The ups and downs of European politics Regarding the first paragraph, it's worth pointing out that, contrary to rumour, these socialist evils that allegedly make people lazy and spineless have not rendered the European countries any the less competitive or productive, perhaps quite the opposite. But then their governments aren't busy waging what The Nation just called the most direct assault on working people, the environment and the poor that the country has seen since the presidency of William McKinley a century ago. See The Rich Have Reason to Rejoice: http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20030106s=dreier Meanwhile they also don't seem to notice that the land of the free seems to have been thoroughly purloined, and its cherished institutions, rights and constitutions with it - all the meaningless little bits of paper - by a bunch of maniacal corporate thugs. Well, that's how these bugaboos work. Indeed. Just witness the Oil Wars in the middle east, the copyright wars over file sharing and Napster and its progeny, and all of the corporate monopoly building and government buying by organizations such as Micro$oft. To say the least. But what I meant is that the way such bugaboos work is that minor details like these fail to be duly witnessed, and thus they get away with it while people get the horrors over delusions like AARGGHHH! Socialism. Off-topic political crap... - only the so-called Energy Policy and its blithe neglect of biofuels and renewables is a prime example. Instead we should all go and pillage Iraq. For starters. Because of AARGGHHH! WOMDs, I think, wasn't it. Or was it Bin Laden? Or have we all forgotten about him by now? Seems so. Abracadabra. The Macarthy era's long over, you know... or is it? Fortunately the MacCarthy era is gone, and unlamented. Unfortunately the Dubya era has replaced it. Oh, is that how you spell it, thanks. I wonder though if it ever did go, maybe it's an ongoing thing that waxes and wans (like werewolves with the moon?). Doesn't this continuing ludicrous terror of AARGGHHH! Socialism indicate that? We've had some folks here saying (proclaiming) some downright nutty things about socialism. Reagan was a recycled MacCarthyist, most of
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought
Keith writes: Anyway, hadn't you guys over there better start thinking about taking your country back? Please??? Great idea, but hard to do when the Democrats haven't got anyone to offer but a bunch of uninspiring wimps who would've been called Republicans back in the good ol' days :-). I think, as usual, it has to get worse before it'll get better.-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlotsof theSea 12-28-02
Keith Addison wrote: Anyway, hadn't you guys over there better start thinking about taking your country back? Please??? Regards Keith We'd love to, but by the time we actually GET to vote, the decent candidates have been long outspent by the political machine that perpetuates business as usual. Worse, many of us have been so brainwashed into believing the swill that spews forth from Washington that our hackles raise whenever anyone questions the wisdom of a given policy. When I forwarded the article posted here on SUV tax breaks to friends and family, I received the NASTIEST responses from people who are RELATED to me! It seems they actually believe that Mr. Bush and his administration truly have the best interest of America in mind whenever they dream up a policy. (And I get continually reminded that I didn't vote for him!) It's sad, really, that in a country of supposedly free people, I find an inordinate amount of social pressure to keep silent about my dissent. The fact that I don't is, in my view, the mark of an individual raised in a free country. There seem to be very few people questioning the American political leadership these days. That seems a dangerous thing. . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlots of the Sea 12-28-02
socialist is not opposite of free. It means that many services that people ought to do for them selves are provided by the government, at a cost of course. socialist does not equal communist. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlots of the Sea 12-28-02 Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, believe it or not, Canada IS a free country. . . Despite the former provincial government's rather intrusive, anti-business behavior, it did not regulate which species of fish could be grown in coastal waters. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlots of the Sea 12-28-02
Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Now here's a thing a lot of Americans just can't seem to see straight, too much us and them. Get their knickers in a knot over socialists - AARGGHHH! (check under your beds! lock the doors! hang wild garlic in the windows!) - and somehow not notice that some of the most advanced and equitable, the sanest and probably best societies in many ways, are socialist states, like the Scandinavian countries. Meanwhile they also don't seem to notice that the land of the free seems to have been thoroughly purloined, and its cherished institutions, rights and constitutions with it - all the meaningless little bits of paper - by a bunch of maniacal corporate thugs. Well, that's how these bugaboos work. The Macarthy era's long over, you know... or is it? Keith - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, believe it or not, Canada IS a free country. . . Despite the former provincial government's rather intrusive, anti-business behavior, it did not regulate which species of fish could be grown in coastal waters. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlots
Sorry Keith, maybe there are decently run socialist countries, but Canada, unfortunately isn't one. Canada is run on the principle of the lowest common denominator; If one idiot can figure out how to hurt themselves doing something, then it is made illegal for anyone to do it. I had 35 years of it and got out. However, as much as I like living in Texas, I would like to live in a country that I would like to be a citizen of. The US is a big bully, and not something I am proud of in so many ways. I wonder, is there any place in this world to live, where one doesn't have to put up with a lot of rules like building codes but that doesn't sicken one stomach with their international behavior. Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Now here's a thing a lot of Americans just can't seem to see straight, too much us and them. Get their knickers in a knot over socialists - AARGGHHH! (check under your beds! lock the doors! hang wild garlic in the windows!) - and somehow not notice that some of the most advanced and equitable, the sanest and probably best societies in many ways, are socialist states, like the Scandinavian countries. Meanwhile they also don't seem to notice that the land of the free seems to have been thoroughly purloined, and its cherished institutions, rights and constitutions with it - all the meaningless little bits of paper - by a bunch of maniacal corporate thugs. Well, that's how these bugaboos work. The Macarthy era's long over, you know... or is it? Keith - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, believe it or not, Canada IS a free country. . . Despite the former provincial government's rather intrusive, anti-business behavior, it did not regulate which species of fish could be grown in coastal waters. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become Feedlots
Kim, I think that you are mixing Building Codes with local codes for building permits. Building Codes are there to guarantee that the building has a minimum standard, is safe, minimum life span, energy efficient, sound insulated and conflict solving. The local building rules are there for esthetic demands and can many times be wacky and how the architects apply them hard to understand. Hakan At 08:22 PM 12/29/2002 -0600, you wrote: Sorry Keith, maybe there are decently run socialist countries, but Canada, unfortunately isn't one. Canada is run on the principle of the lowest common denominator; If one idiot can figure out how to hurt themselves doing something, then it is made illegal for anyone to do it. I had 35 years of it and got out. However, as much as I like living in Texas, I would like to live in a country that I would like to be a citizen of. The US is a big bully, and not something I am proud of in so many ways. I wonder, is there any place in this world to live, where one doesn't have to put up with a lot of rules like building codes but that doesn't sicken one stomach with their international behavior. Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: Canada IS a free country?? I thought it was logged in the books as a Socialist Country?? Is Canada looking like a free country a tell-tale indication of what (comparatively) the US has become (or is turning in to)??? No debate ... simply food for thought. Curtis Now here's a thing a lot of Americans just can't seem to see straight, too much us and them. Get their knickers in a knot over socialists - AARGGHHH! (check under your beds! lock the doors! hang wild garlic in the windows!) - and somehow not notice that some of the most advanced and equitable, the sanest and probably best societies in many ways, are socialist states, like the Scandinavian countries. Meanwhile they also don't seem to notice that the land of the free seems to have been thoroughly purloined, and its cherished institutions, rights and constitutions with it - all the meaningless little bits of paper - by a bunch of maniacal corporate thugs. Well, that's how these bugaboos work. The Macarthy era's long over, you know... or is it? Keith - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, believe it or not, Canada IS a free country. . . Despite the former provincial government's rather intrusive, anti-business behavior, it did not regulate which species of fish could be grown in coastal waters. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Food for thought Was: Fish Farms Become
Sorry Hakan, but no I am not mixing them up. We do not have codes in this part of the country. I am free to use PVC in my house, I can use an alternative building material like pulped paper feed bags mixed with clay for my walls, or whatever else I chose to do. There is no one I have to get a permit from or account to of how I did things. I wired my own home, installed my own propane lines, [which I am removing] and built it myself. Once upon a time I believed that building codes were there for safety, but that was a long time ago. Now I know the influence the plumber's union, architectural associations, and other have on the codes, for their profit and job security, not public safety. I am not saying that should not be certain standards for buildings in a city or anyplace where the building is open to the public, there should be. My nearest neighbor is 1/2 miles away, who's business is it how I build but mine? Bright Blessings, Kim I think that you are mixing Building Codes with local codes for building permits. Building Codes are there to guarantee that the building has a minimum standard, is safe, minimum life span, energy efficient, sound insulated and conflict solving. The local building rules are there for esthetic demands and can many times be wacky and how the architects apply them hard to understand. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
