Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells
Just was perusing the Medis webpage, they seem to have some smaller eth battery technology they are going into. I am interested in the rotay engine they have as it could be useful for a hybrid application. MM, Biodiesel hybrid .. Guess Capstone is also a competing technology, might get even more bang for the buck. BTW, they seem to be focused on the portable market right now, but it seems to be the fuelcell growth pattern over the last few years to move into remote Telco applications before taking on larger projects. Ballard is really the only one serious about the transportation sector (so far). James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0600, you wrote: For a while now I have had it in my mind that I should produce ethanol in my back yard from biomass. Make electricity from the ethanol. Then, use the electricity to power my home and sell the excess to the power company. Easy right. Any coments. I'd like to see more attempts at this, but quite often when I mention using biomass to make electricity, folks try to shoot it down because it is not as presently efficient as they would like to see. I think that it's a challenge worth exploring, particularly given new technologies such as fuel cells. I also strongly agree with Kirk that cogeneration can make-or-break whether this project is energy efficient. This was particularly true in fuel cells, in a table I once saw of their energy efficiencies. It was only with cogeneration, with some of them, that they got above the 40, 50, 60 percent marks. I really want to see ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is the only fuel on the list of potential fuel cell fuels that the Petroleum Industry doesn't presently dominate, and it is, consequently (my opinion) not talked about nearly as often as other potential fuel cell fuels. When I spoke to Medis two years ago they had not yet got to the point where their Ethanol Fuel Cell technology could be readily scaled up to house-powering size. I don't know where they are at with that issue right now, nor do I know if theirs is best for such an attempt, because I think their ethanol fuel cell concepts necessitated some sort of secret ingredient aspect. My guess is that there are several companies whose cells could, with some effort, be adapted to ethanol use. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells
With each level of conversion of an original feedstock energy is lost, or at least lost for human re-use. Manufacture of electricity is most efficient when there are no intermediate steps. Perhaps if solar heat was implemented for brewing mash and distillation the appearance of efficiency in ethanol-to-electricity conversion would improve markedly. But then, perhaps the solar could be put to use where its application was more efficient and offset the use a greater amount of carbon based fossil fuel. CBA...CBA...CBA...CBAwith the costs not always being monetary. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0600, you wrote: For a while now I have had it in my mind that I should produce ethanol in my back yard from biomass. Make electricity from the ethanol. Then, use the electricity to power my home and sell the excess to the power company. Easy right. Any coments. I'd like to see more attempts at this, but quite often when I mention using biomass to make electricity, folks try to shoot it down because it is not as presently efficient as they would like to see. I think that it's a challenge worth exploring, particularly given new technologies such as fuel cells. I also strongly agree with Kirk that cogeneration can make-or-break whether this project is energy efficient. This was particularly true in fuel cells, in a table I once saw of their energy efficiencies. It was only with cogeneration, with some of them, that they got above the 40, 50, 60 percent marks. I really want to see ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is the only fuel on the list of potential fuel cell fuels that the Petroleum Industry doesn't presently dominate, and it is, consequently (my opinion) not talked about nearly as often as other potential fuel cell fuels. When I spoke to Medis two years ago they had not yet got to the point where their Ethanol Fuel Cell technology could be readily scaled up to house-powering size. I don't know where they are at with that issue right now, nor do I know if theirs is best for such an attempt, because I think their ethanol fuel cell concepts necessitated some sort of secret ingredient aspect. My guess is that there are several companies whose cells could, with some effort, be adapted to ethanol use. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0600, you wrote: For a while now I have had it in my mind that I should produce ethanol in my back yard from biomass. Make electricity from the ethanol. Then, use the electricity to power my home and sell the excess to the power company. Easy right. Any coments. I'd like to see more attempts at this, but quite often when I mention using biomass to make electricity, folks try to shoot it down because it is not as presently efficient as they would like to see. I think that it's a challenge worth exploring, particularly given new technologies such as fuel cells. I also strongly agree with Kirk that cogeneration can make-or-break whether this project is energy efficient. This was particularly true in fuel cells, in a table I once saw of their energy efficiencies. It was only with cogeneration, with some of them, that they got above the 40, 50, 60 percent marks. I really want to see ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is the only fuel on the list of potential fuel cell fuels that the Petroleum Industry doesn't presently dominate, and it is, consequently (my opinion) not talked about nearly as often as other potential fuel cell fuels. When I spoke to Medis two years ago they had not yet got to the point where their Ethanol Fuel Cell technology could be readily scaled up to house-powering size. I don't know where they are at with that issue right now, nor do I know if theirs is best for such an attempt, because I think their ethanol fuel cell concepts necessitated some sort of secret ingredient aspect. My guess is that there are several companies whose cells could, with some effort, be adapted to ethanol use. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
