Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
howdy chris, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: not just grains, but *whole* grains. beans and *whole* grains. We could actually take the discussion further to stipulate _properly processed_ whole grains. Corn meal should be processed with alkali (masa harina) as I recall to to make the thiamin more absorbable, as one example. However I was referring to issues of amino acid composition, which isn't greatly impacted by milling of the seed coat. Granted whole grains are good for fiber, minerals and vitamin content, but something like 80 percent of the protein content of grains is in the endosperm. and even then only certain combinations. I went looking for amino acid composition tables of beans and grains, and could not find any table where an essential amino acid was entirely missing from a bean or grain of any kind. By combining beans (low in methionine, and threonine?) with grains (low in lysine) one comes up with an efficient diet. As I see it one could live on a diet of one OR the other. It would however be expensive so to speak. To get sufficient lysine for example from a diet of corn would require eating a lot more total protein to get the necessary amount of lysine. The other amino acids in the diet in excess of the necessary amounts would just be burned up as calories. And those are expensive calories. Plus the total load of calories from all the carbohydrate would tend to produce obesity I would think. other traditional dishes: tofu and rice bean burritos peanutbutter sandwich not all beans will complete the amino acid set when combined with brown rice. of course, there are still more grains that those beans might be combined with, but i personally don't know of any. hum, I don't don't know of any that can't have you verified the protein content of the beans and cornbread combination your father so liked? only anecdotally. i wouldn't have expected it to fit the bill based on what i know. the only thing I can think of to confound my assumptions would be issues of bioavailablilty, digestion and absorption, but not of amino acid composition. toodles -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
Hogwash. How many people have you known who suffer from Kwashiorkor <http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001604.htm>? None, I'll warrant. How many do you know suffering from heart disease, diabetis or obesity? 60% of the population. The US suffers diseases of affluence, not malnutrition. The combining protein myth was debunked years ago. Next I'll be hearing about how human beings suffer from cow's milk deficiency. Yeesh.* * [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: not just grains, but *whole* grains. beans and *whole* grains. and even then only certain combinations. not all beans will complete the amino acid set when combined with brown rice. of course, there are still more grains that those beans might be combined with, but i personally don't know of any. have you verified the protein content of the beans and cornbread combination your father so liked? i wouldn't have expected it to fit the bill based on what i know. regards, -chris ------------ Subject: Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat? From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:25:36 -0500 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Howdy Ken et al Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you want to eliminate meat from your diet, then you need to find another way of getting the protein meat provides. Actually, getting enough protein on a vegan diet is not at all a problem. However, you do have to eat legumes and carbohydrates to get a complete protein from vegetables alone. I think you mean beans and grains here. There are several traditional dishes where beans and grains are present. My late fathers favorite- beans and corn bread (he wasn't a vegetarian, but grew up dirt poor where meat was a luxury) Cajun fare- red beans and rice Native American- succotash and I am sure many others. The trick is to get the right complement of amino acids in the diet. There is much research going on every day to point to a potiential excess of protein in the average American diet but, I don't think that there is any definitive scientific "proof" to conclude either way on this subject. Even the USDA has recently produced reports stating that protein intakes needed to be curbed in the U.S. - keep in mind, I don't hold much stock in anything the USDA releases. The only real nutritional issue with a meat and dairy-free diet is a defficiency of the vitamin B12 which is only naturally available in meat. yeast provides B-12. We (humans that is) actually produce lots of B-12 via microbial synthesis in the gut, the problem is we don't absorb it. I have read that some B-12 is provided in the diet via fecal contamination. :( There are vegans who don't get supplemental B12 and are quite healthy. That depends. We store a few years of b-12 in the liver, but at some point one must get more. I get mine from Silk soy milk, though. Can I assume that the soy milk is supplemented with B-12 'cause it shouldn't be there naturally? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
not just grains, but *whole* grains. beans and *whole* grains. and even then only certain combinations. not all beans will complete the amino acid set when combined with brown rice. of course, there are still more grains that those beans might be combined with, but i personally don't know of any. have you verified the protein content of the beans and cornbread combination your father so liked? i wouldn't have expected it to fit the bill based on what i know. regards, -chris --- Begin Message --- Howdy Ken et al Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you want to eliminate meat from your diet, then you need to find another way of getting the protein meat provides. Actually, getting enough protein on a vegan diet is not at all a problem. However, you do have to eat legumes and carbohydrates to get a complete protein from vegetables alone. I think you mean beans and grains here. There are several traditional dishes where beans and grains are present. My late fathers favorite- beans and corn bread (he wasn't a vegetarian, but grew up dirt poor where meat was a luxury) Cajun fare- red beans and rice Native American- succotash and I am sure many others. The trick is to get the right complement of amino acids in the diet. There is much research going on every day to point to a potiential excess of protein in the average American diet but, I don't think that there is any definitive scientific "proof" to conclude either way on this subject. Even the USDA has recently produced reports stating that protein intakes needed to be curbed in the U.S. - keep in mind, I don't hold much stock in anything the USDA releases. The only real nutritional issue with a meat and dairy-free diet is a defficiency of the vitamin B12 which is only naturally available in meat. yeast provides B-12. We (humans that is) actually produce lots of B-12 via microbial synthesis in the gut, the problem is we don't absorb it. I have read that some B-12 is provided in the diet via fecal contamination. :( There are vegans who don't get supplemental B12 and are quite healthy. That depends. We store a few years of b-12 in the liver, but at some point one must get more. I get mine from Silk soy milk, though. Can I assume that the soy milk is supplemented with B-12 'cause it shouldn't be there naturally? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- End Message --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: even so, a few years ago i started cutting way back on my meat intake on the recommendation of my doctor. i enjoy it just as much as ever, but have found that i am now eating a much greater amount of vegetables, and considerably less fat intake. this without any conscious effort in that regard. i simply cut back on the meat, and the rest happened quite on its own. . . . It does happen on its own. You begin to look for other alternatives and suddenly you realize that the Earth's food diversity is truly amazing. I would guess that you have ventured out into new vegetables and that can only mean a greater variety of vitamins and minerals. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
i 'went veggie' for a couple years back in the mid '80s. then i went to spain and experienced jamón ibérico and spanish chorizo (not to mention the basque cuisine). in the face of such sublime foods i found it quite impossible, a downright ludicrous proposition in fact, to maintian a vegetarian regime (no disrespect intended for those who do). even so, a few years ago i started cutting way back on my meat intake on the recommendation of my doctor. i enjoy it just as much as ever, but have found that i am now eating a much greater amount of vegetables, and considerably less fat intake. this without any conscious effort in that regard. i simply cut back on the meat, and the rest happened quite on its own. . . . -chris b. --- Begin Message --- "Google" on "vegetarian" and you'll find numerous sources of information on how to get an healthful diet. I've been "vegetarian" for two and a half years now, although I have to admit I occasionally eat fish (sustainable types), milk (organic) -- although I usually use "soy" milk, eggs (free range, organic), and cheese. Maybe I'll take the leap to vegan-ism some day, but that's a tough move. I was motivated to go vegetarian by reading about the cruel "living" conditions in which most of our meat animals are raised, by trying to achieve better health for myself, and to have less of an impact on the environment. I drive through farm country in Maryland and in South Central Pennsylvania fairly often, and I see many examples of unmitigated livestock waste runoff into the local streams, which then ends up in the Chesapeake to choke off life there. (Certainly there are other sources of nutrient load and toxic chemicals as well.) Most of the planted fields grow food for the meat animals as well. I'd much rather see that land used to grow foods for vegetarians and source plants for biofuels. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- End Message --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
bob allen wrote: Howdy Ken et al Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote: I think you mean beans and grains here. There are several traditional dishes where beans and grains are present. My late fathers favorite- beans and corn bread (he wasn't a vegetarian, but grew up dirt poor where meat was a luxury) You are correct, my mistake. Can I assume that the soy milk is supplemented with B-12 'cause it shouldn't be there naturally? That is correct. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
Howdy Ken et al Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you want to eliminate meat from your diet, then you need to find another way of getting the protein meat provides. Actually, getting enough protein on a vegan diet is not at all a problem. However, you do have to eat legumes and carbohydrates to get a complete protein from vegetables alone. I think you mean beans and grains here. There are several traditional dishes where beans and grains are present. My late fathers favorite- beans and corn bread (he wasn't a vegetarian, but grew up dirt poor where meat was a luxury) Cajun fare- red beans and rice Native American- succotash and I am sure many others. The trick is to get the right complement of amino acids in the diet. There is much research going on every day to point to a potiential excess of protein in the average American diet but, I don't think that there is any definitive scientific "proof" to conclude either way on this subject. Even the USDA has recently produced reports stating that protein intakes needed to be curbed in the U.S. - keep in mind, I don't hold much stock in anything the USDA releases. The only real nutritional issue with a meat and dairy-free diet is a defficiency of the vitamin B12 which is only naturally available in meat. yeast provides B-12. We (humans that is) actually produce lots of B-12 via microbial synthesis in the gut, the problem is we don't absorb it. I have read that some B-12 is provided in the diet via fecal contamination. :( There are vegans who don't get supplemental B12 and are quite healthy. That depends. We store a few years of b-12 in the liver, but at some point one must get more. I get mine from Silk soy milk, though. Can I assume that the soy milk is supplemented with B-12 'cause it shouldn't be there naturally? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you want to eliminate meat from your diet, then you need to find another way of getting the protein meat provides. Actually, getting enough protein on a vegan diet is not at all a problem. However, you do have to eat legumes and carbohydrates to get a complete protein from vegetables alone. There is much research going on every day to point to a potiential excess of protein in the average American diet but, I don't think that there is any definitive scientific "proof" to conclude either way on this subject. Even the USDA has recently produced reports stating that protein intakes needed to be curbed in the U.S. - keep in mind, I don't hold much stock in anything the USDA releases. The only real nutritional issue with a meat and dairy-free diet is a defficiency of the vitamin B12 which is only naturally available in meat. There are vegans who don't get supplemental B12 and are quite healthy. I get mine from Silk soy milk, though. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Fwd: [Biofuel] give up meat?
ryan, if you want to eliminate meat from your diet, then you need to find another way of getting the protein meat provides. there aren't many 'veggies' (at least, as i understand the word) which contain much protein. the primary non-animal protein sources are cereals/grains, potatoes, beans (like black, pinto, soy), and the right kinds of corn (maize) when properly prepared. for the most part, none of these is sufficient in and of itself, since they do not contain the complete amino acid set required for the human diet. -chris b. --- Begin Message --- Ken, I am curious, what do you eat if you don't eat meat. I have been attempting to give up beef. Mostly because a good friend of mine runs a testing lab at a beef plant in Colorado. The things he tells me makes me not want beef anymore. Especially when he talks about mad cow. I don't think most Americans know what it will do, furthermore we think we are invincible. Do you only eat veggies, or do you eat meat substitutes, or both? Ryan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- End Message --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
