RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
I would have to agree with Martin. I really enjoy reading the messages in this group. Not only are they informative, they are also very funny. Not much of this kind of humor here in the Philippines. People here would get offended when you say something like this to them. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:39 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power = = =Wow =That's scary, you try first and let us know if you survive! = =Martin Klingensmith =nnytech.net =infoarchive.net = = =-Original Message- =From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:29 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power = =Do you know if H2O2 is subject to electrolysis like H2O is? If it is, =it =might work. = =Greg H. = = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
I'm glad I could supply some warning and comic relief :) Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net -Original Message- From: Christopher Tan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:29 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power I would have to agree with Martin. I really enjoy reading the messages in this group. Not only are they informative, they are also very funny. Not much of this kind of humor here in the Philippines. People here would get offended when you say something like this to them. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:39 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power = = =Wow =That's scary, you try first and let us know if you survive! = =Martin Klingensmith =nnytech.net =infoarchive.net = = =-Original Message- =From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:29 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power = =Do you know if H2O2 is subject to electrolysis like H2O is? If it is, =it =might work. = =Greg H. = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power i think it was the me 162 The ME-163 looks like what we are after. from http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Herman's%20Comet.htm (good picture) The Me-163 Komet. A rocket powered plane used to intercept raiding American B-17's and '24's. As the Komet was about 250 MPH faster than the target, and only flew for about 3 minutes, they proved to be very exciting (to the pilot), but relative ineffective in combat. The original aircraft used a highly volatile 2 part liquid propulsion rocket engine for power and had a little propeller on the front as a wind powered generator. The plane was basically a fuel bomb with wings. The Komet was the first rocket-powered fighter to be placed in active duty. It was a very beautiful, well-designed and airworthy craft with a small drawback; It was deadly! If that simply had referred to the enemy facing the Komet, it wouldn't be much of a drawback, but unfortunately the pilot and the ground crew were the ones who were in the greatest danger. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight3.htm A Hellmuth Walter Kiel Kommandogesellschaft HWK 109-509 bi-fueled rocket powered the first B-model Komets. Throttle positions of off, Idle, 1st, 2nd and 3rd stages thrust were controllable from 220 lb. to 3,307 lb. The engine dimensions: length-8 ft. 3.5 in.; height-2 ft. 11 in. Total weight was 813 lb. (fuels system 441 lb.; motor 366 lb., control system 7 lb.). The 163B was propelled by fuels coded T-Stoff and C-Stoff. C-Stoff was a mixture of 57% methyl alcohol, 30% hydrazine hydrate and 13% water. T-Stoff was 80% concentrated hydrogen peroxide, to which some additional stabilizers were added. The T-Stoff fuel tank system consisted of a main fuselage tank and two smaller tanks on each side of the pilot's seat in the cockpit (see cockpit photo). Total fuel capacity was 3,717 lb. of T-Stoff and 1,032 lb. of C-Stoff. Interesting reading at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
AHH.., After a bit of digging, i found the plane and info i was talking about. http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me163.htm Messerschmitt Me 163B-1 Komet This is a fasinating way of getting a plane in the sky and was quite successfull for its rushed use. --- gobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: jgnat1488 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was used as the reactant in the nazi rocket plane? I know that one of the fuels were h2o2 and when the other liquid was in contact with it, it combusted for more thrust. As i recall the plane was a shoort range (12 min. fly time) interceptor placed near factories and used drop dollies for take off gear. It even had a small prop. on the front that was used for power generation to run the radio and such. Jason Gnatowsky Jason couldn't find any mention of the rocket planebut http://www.constable.ca/v2.htm details the use of H2O2 in the V2. Technical Details The V2 was an unmanned, guided, ballistic missile. It was guided by an advanced gyroscopic system that sent signals to aerodynamic steering tabs on the fins. It was generally inaccurate due to errors in aligning the rocket with it's target, premature shut-off of the motor and inconsistencies in electric current in the guidance system. It was propelled by an alcohol (a mixture of 75% ethyl alcohol and water), and liquid oxygen fuel. The two liquids were delivered to the thrust chamber by two rotary pumps, driven by a steam turbine. The steam turbine operated at 5,000 rpm on two auxiliary fuels, namely hydroperoxide (100 %) and calcium permanganate. This system generated about 55,000 lbs (27,000 to 30,000 Newton) of thrust. The motor typically burned for 60 seconds, pushing the rocket to around 4,400 ft/second. It rose to an altitude of 52 miles and had a range of 200 - 225 miles. regards Paul Gobert. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
haha, i should have looked ahead in the posts --- gobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: jgnat1488 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was used as the reactant in the nazi rocket plane? I know that one of the fuels were h2o2 and when the other liquid was in contact with it, it combusted for more thrust. As i recall the plane was a shoort range (12 min. fly time) interceptor placed near factories and used drop dollies for take off gear. It even had a small prop. on the front that was used for power generation to run the radio and such. Jason Gnatowsky Jason couldn't find any mention of the rocket planebut http://www.constable.ca/v2.htm details the use of H2O2 in the V2. Technical Details The V2 was an unmanned, guided, ballistic missile. It was guided by an advanced gyroscopic system that sent signals to aerodynamic steering tabs on the fins. It was generally inaccurate due to errors in aligning the rocket with it's target, premature shut-off of the motor and inconsistencies in electric current in the guidance system. It was propelled by an alcohol (a mixture of 75% ethyl alcohol and water), and liquid oxygen fuel. The two liquids were delivered to the thrust chamber by two rotary pumps, driven by a steam turbine. The steam turbine operated at 5,000 rpm on two auxiliary fuels, namely hydroperoxide (100 %) and calcium permanganate. This system generated about 55,000 lbs (27,000 to 30,000 Newton) of thrust. The motor typically burned for 60 seconds, pushing the rocket to around 4,400 ft/second. It rose to an altitude of 52 miles and had a range of 200 - 225 miles. regards Paul Gobert. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
The Japanese Long Lance torpedoes were something to be feared, they had a range and speed that was almost unbelievable for the time, if we had them, the war, would have been over allot sooner. As it was, for the first few years in the war, the U.S. was too busy dodging there own torpedoes, as they would many times, circle around and hit the ship/boat/sub that launched them. We lost plenty of people to that. Greg H. - Original Message - From: gobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 20:37 Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power The site makes for very interesting reading I especially liked the 1935 to 1945 section. Interesting little snippets like the British training seagulls to sit on periscopes to make the submerged sub easier to spot. The Japanese I Boat that fired a cluster of six torpedos at a ship in a convoy. Three hit the target sinking it, the other three ran for a further 12 Km, encountered another convoy, damaging two more ships and the sixth torpedo kept going. Contrast this to the early war scenario where torpedos were unreliable. On sub fired off its its 24 torpedos during its tour of duty, plenty of hits but only one exploded. However it did sink one ship when the unexploded torpedo punctured the rusty hull.. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Pilot's seat? in a German rocket? On Saturday, Jun 21, 2003, at 07:02 US/Eastern, gobie wrote: - Original Message - From: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power i think it was the me 162 The ME-163 looks like what we are after. from http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Herman's%20Comet.htm (good picture) The Me-163 Komet. A rocket powered plane used to intercept raiding American B-17's and '24's. As the Komet was about 250 MPH faster than the target, and only flew for about 3 minutes, they proved to be very exciting (to the pilot), but relative ineffective in combat. The original aircraft used a highly volatile 2 part liquid propulsion rocket engine for power and had a little propeller on the front as a wind powered generator. The plane was basically a fuel bomb with wings. The Komet was the first rocket-powered fighter to be placed in active duty. It was a very beautiful, well-designed and airworthy craft with a small drawback; It was deadly! If that simply had referred to the enemy facing the Komet, it wouldn't be much of a drawback, but unfortunately the pilot and the ground crew were the ones who were in the greatest danger. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight3.htm A Hellmuth Walter Kiel Kommandogesellschaft HWK 109-509 bi-fueled rocket powered the first B-model Komets. Throttle positions of off, Idle, 1st, 2nd and 3rd stages thrust were controllable from 220 lb. to 3,307 lb. The engine dimensions: length-8 ft. 3.5 in.; height-2 ft. 11 in. Total weight was 813 lb. (fuels system 441 lb.; motor 366 lb., control system 7 lb.). The 163B was propelled by fuels coded T-Stoff and C-Stoff. C-Stoff was a mixture of 57% methyl alcohol, 30% hydrazine hydrate and 13% water. T-Stoff was 80% concentrated hydrogen peroxide, to which some additional stabilizers were added. The T-Stoff fuel tank system consisted of a main fuselage tank and two smaller tanks on each side of the pilot's seat in the cockpit (see cockpit photo). Total fuel capacity was 3,717 lb. of T-Stoff and 1,032 lb. of C-Stoff. Interesting reading at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Our pentagrams are lovingly handwoven by magical people during the waxing moon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Do you know if H2O2 is subject to electrolysis like H2O is? If it is, it might work. Greg H. - Original Message - From: gobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 21:37 Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power Wonder has anyone tried deriving oxygen from H2O2 to supercharge an ICE? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pilot's seat? in a German rocket? On Saturday, Jun 21, 2003, at 07:02 US/Eastern, gobie wrote: Yes we could call it plenty of other things. Must have been one hell of a ride especially under maximum thrust with near empty tanks. All this with fabric covered wings. In view of the unusual performance and the potential to self destruct good pilots were hard to find especially when they were needed for conventional aircraft. Some interesting reading on the performance of the aircraft, the training of the pilots and the techniques the pilots used to get around its vulnarabilities, especially when it glided back to base. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm Wonder has anyone tried deriving oxygen from H2O2 to supercharge an ICE? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Wow That's scary, you try first and let us know if you survive! Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:29 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power Do you know if H2O2 is subject to electrolysis like H2O is? If it is, it might work. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/hist1939.html 1940 German scientist Helmuth Walter demonstrated a prototype for the first true submarine, a boat that in theory could operate submerged for an indefinite period, unlimited by battery capacity or the need for atmospheric oxygen. V.80 gained its power from the decomposition of highly concentrated (95 percent) hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, known as Perhydrol. In essence, when the chemical breaks down, it releases superheated steam to drive a turbine along with oxygen to support conventional combustion for additional power or for crew respiration. V.80's designer optimized its hull shape for submerged operations, and the boat indeed demonstrated exceptional speed -- 28 knots submerged. It also demonstrated exceptionally high fuel consumption, 25 times that of a diesel engine, at exceptional cost. According to one source, one six-and-a-half-hour trial run consumed $200,000 worth of Perhydrol. The design showed great promise, but Hitler thought his war was won, so plans for production of a series of Walter boats were put on hold. Research continued, however, and perhaps eight, in several variations between 250 and 300 tons, were put into service in 1943-44. Not a nice chemical to be trapped in a big pipe with, but then notice that an early design of American nuclear sub used an alloy of sodium and potassium metals to transfere the heat from the reactor to the boilers. I wonder if anyone who designed these things was game enough to travel in them. Conventional deisel generator and battery subs had their problems too. Saltwater in contact with high current producing chlorine gas. Bad enough to be in a damaged leaking sub but chlorine as well. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Paul;Thanks for the info. I would have thought a mixture of diesel and H2O2 would have been the answer. No snorkel needed. Each injected into the cylinders separately. Brant -Original Message- From: gobie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/hist1939.html 1940 German scientist Helmuth Walter demonstrated a prototype for the first true submarine, a boat that in theory could operate submerged for an indefinite period, unlimited by battery capacity or the need for atmospheric oxygen. V.80 gained its power from the decomposition of highly concentrated (95 percent) hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, known as Perhydrol. In essence, when the chemical breaks down, it releases superheated steam to drive a turbine along with oxygen to support conventional combustion for additional power or for crew respiration. V.80's designer optimized its hull shape for submerged operations, and the boat indeed demonstrated exceptional speed -- 28 knots submerged. It also demonstrated exceptionally high fuel consumption, 25 times that of a diesel engine, at exceptional cost. According to one source, one six-and-a-half-hour trial run consumed $200,000 worth of Perhydrol. The design showed great promise, but Hitler thought his war was won, so plans for production of a series of Walter boats were put on hold. Research continued, however, and perhaps eight, in several variations between 250 and 300 tons, were put into service in 1943-44. Not a nice chemical to be trapped in a big pipe with, but then notice that an early design of American nuclear sub used an alloy of sodium and potassium metals to transfere the heat from the reactor to the boilers. I wonder if anyone who designed these things was game enough to travel in them. Conventional deisel generator and battery subs had their problems too. Saltwater in contact with high current producing chlorine gas. Bad enough to be in a damaged leaking sub but chlorine as well. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
What was used as the reactant in the nazi rocket plane? I know that one of the fuels were h2o2 and when the other liquid was in contact with it, it combusted for more thrust. As i recall the plane was a shoort range (12 min. fly time) interceptor placed near factories and used drop dollies for take off gear. It even had a small prop. on the front that was used for power generation to run the radio and such. Jason Gnatowsky --- gobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/hist1939.html 1940 German scientist Helmuth Walter demonstrated a prototype for the first true submarine, a boat that in theory could operate submerged for an indefinite period, unlimited by battery capacity or the need for atmospheric oxygen. V.80 gained its power from the decomposition of highly concentrated (95 percent) hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, known as Perhydrol. In essence, when the chemical breaks down, it releases superheated steam to drive a turbine along with oxygen to support conventional combustion for additional power or for crew respiration. V.80's designer optimized its hull shape for submerged operations, and the boat indeed demonstrated exceptional speed -- 28 knots submerged. It also demonstrated exceptionally high fuel consumption, 25 times that of a diesel engine, at exceptional cost. According to one source, one six-and-a-half-hour trial run consumed $200,000 worth of Perhydrol. The design showed great promise, but Hitler thought his war was won, so plans for production of a series of Walter boats were put on hold. Research continued, however, and perhaps eight, in several variations between 250 and 300 tons, were put into service in 1943-44. Not a nice chemical to be trapped in a big pipe with, but then notice that an early design of American nuclear sub used an alloy of sodium and potassium metals to transfere the heat from the reactor to the boilers. I wonder if anyone who designed these things was game enough to travel in them. Conventional deisel generator and battery subs had their problems too. Saltwater in contact with high current producing chlorine gas. Bad enough to be in a damaged leaking sub but chlorine as well. Regards, Paul Gobert. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
Brant, apparently they did use the oxygen from the peroxide to power the diesel generators. The V.80 was built in a figure eight cross-section configuration with the base section intended to hold the peroxide. When the idea didn't work out to be practical; they filled the bottom section up with additional batteries. Whilst not a fan of warefare, I admire the technological advances conflict brings even if they are in a less than social direction. The site makes for very interesting reading I especially liked the 1935 to 1945 section. Interesting little snippets like the British training seagulls to sit on periscopes to make the submerged sub easier to spot. The Japanese I Boat that fired a cluster of six torpedos at a ship in a convoy. Three hit the target sinking it, the other three ran for a further 12 Km, encountered another convoy, damaging two more ships and the sixth torpedo kept going. Contrast this to the early war scenario where torpedos were unreliable. On sub fired off its its 24 torpedos during its tour of duty, plenty of hits but only one exploded. However it did sink one ship when the unexploded torpedo punctured the rusty hull.. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WW2,peroxide power
- Original Message - From: jgnat1488 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was used as the reactant in the nazi rocket plane? I know that one of the fuels were h2o2 and when the other liquid was in contact with it, it combusted for more thrust. As i recall the plane was a shoort range (12 min. fly time) interceptor placed near factories and used drop dollies for take off gear. It even had a small prop. on the front that was used for power generation to run the radio and such. Jason Gnatowsky Jason couldn't find any mention of the rocket planebut http://www.constable.ca/v2.htm details the use of H2O2 in the V2. Technical Details The V2 was an unmanned, guided, ballistic missile. It was guided by an advanced gyroscopic system that sent signals to aerodynamic steering tabs on the fins. It was generally inaccurate due to errors in aligning the rocket with it's target, premature shut-off of the motor and inconsistencies in electric current in the guidance system. It was propelled by an alcohol (a mixture of 75% ethyl alcohol and water), and liquid oxygen fuel. The two liquids were delivered to the thrust chamber by two rotary pumps, driven by a steam turbine. The steam turbine operated at 5,000 rpm on two auxiliary fuels, namely hydroperoxide (100 %) and calcium permanganate. This system generated about 55,000 lbs (27,000 to 30,000 Newton) of thrust. The motor typically burned for 60 seconds, pushing the rocket to around 4,400 ft/second. It rose to an altitude of 52 miles and had a range of 200 - 225 miles. regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
