Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Let me just make sure I had all the details first, since some things
were left unsaid and require assumptions. If I read what you are
saying correctly, I agree with Keith on this one and it doesn't appear
viable.
1)You make BioD with the Lye/methanol method
2)Separate out the BioD from the glycerin/soap/lye/methanol by gravity.
{Note: You do not acidify the layer and convert the Soap back to FFA.}
3)Boil off the methanol (possible recovery but inmaterial to
discussion) and leaves you with glycerin/soap/lye.
4)You add water and more lye and mix
IF the above is what you are doing, this will leave you with the same
amount of glycerin, the same amount of soap, more lye and water.
The only way you would get more soap would be if you had left over
BioD or unreacted oil in there that didn't separate out in step 2.
Even then you would still end up with lye heavy soap and it would be
very harsh.
FFANa+ OH- (aq) -Soap and water
BioD Na+ OH- (aq) -Soap and methanol
Oil Na+ OH- (aq) -Soap and glycerin
One viable option would be to take some water and unreacted oil and
add the glycerin layer (without the methanol). Do not add anymore
lye. The extra oil can react with the lye left over in the glycerin
layer and make soap. You know how much lye you added so you can
estimate the amount of oil to add to use up all the lye from the
reaction. You do not want any lye unreacted in soap as it will make
it very harsh.
I hope this helps, but if anything in the 4 steps at the beginning is
off let me know and I can go through the reactions based on your
actual process.
Andy
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:15:03 +0900, Keith Addison
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Luc
As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm
most interested to see what you achieve.
What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can
follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close
to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use
it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I
hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as
a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action
and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three
diffenrent approaches.
1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
The amount of lye needed will depend on how much you used in the
biodiesel process, ie on the titration result.
Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps
above 65C (148.5F)
Well above - probably until it stops bubbling. Not something to do in
an enclosed space.
and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once
the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the
water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a
mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I
have it figured out :-)
The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was
going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a
portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but
the result was still solid bars.
The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they
already show more potential, primarily the third which began
solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise.
The trouble is it's not just glycerine, and if it were you wouldn't
be able to make soap out of it - glycerine is an ingredient of soap,
a non-essential ingredient furthermore. Soap is made out of fats and
oils, and the fats and oils you'll be making soap out of this way
(soap with a VERY high glycerine content) (and a high content of
impurities) will be the Free Fatty Acids displaced from the brew by
the NaOH. Aka soapstock or foots. Not the ideal material for the
making of quality soap. From about soapstock/foots here:
The Fats and Oils: a General View, by Carl L. Alsberg and Alonzo E.
Taylor, 1928, Food
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#fatsoils
Food Fats and Oils (1994) -- online book (Acrobat file, 1.3Mb):
http://www.iseo.org/foodfatsoils.pdf
I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along.
Please do, and good luck.
No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used
eh? I am determined that it will.
There are other choices before you get to throwing it away. Before
you get to composting it too.
Best wishes
Keith
Luc
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Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi, Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product. You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc. How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD proces, which we find back in the by-product ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
You are relating to SVO soap no? Like an olive oil castille? What I am on about is using the glycerine by-product from biodiesel production and converting that into a usable soap. So far so good by the way. Everything is hardening up nicely, as expected (hoped). Now only leaves to see what becomes of it once it has cured for awhile. Luc - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
What I am doing here is experimenting in an attempt to make the by product useful to me. Best to follow the instructional links given in Keith's post about it for now. I will post any information once I have it. Kim: No volcanoes yet, not so much as a bubble. - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Hi, Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product. You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc. How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD proces, which we find back in the by-product ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Luc - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making G'day Pieter; What I am doing here is experimenting in an attempt to make the by product useful to me. Best to follow the instructional links given in Keith's post about it for now. I will post any information once I have it. Kim: No volcanoes yet, not so much as a bubble. - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Hi, Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product. You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc. How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD proces, which we find back in the by-product ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
I do not use any coconut, I use goat tallow for really creamy lather. It is very kind to older skin, but cleans younger skin perfectly. If you want a more hydrating soap, add 20% emu tallow. I only use coconut for dish washing soap, and at that I have to add something to protect my hands from its drying measures, usually olive oil in a liquid [KOAH] based soap. Many tallows such as rabbit and lamb also lather very well. Bright Blessings, Kim At 08:52 PM 2/11/2005, you wrote: I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
I like using avocado oil my self. Menthol makes a nice addition to bathroom soap.It is really nice to shave with. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 09:13 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making While I have not been making my soap for as long as Mike, I have found that I do not use any coconut, I use goat tallow for really creamy lather. It is very kind to older skin, but cleans younger skin perfectly. If you want a more hydrating soap, add 20% emu tallow. I only use coconut for dish washing soap, and at that I have to add something to protect my hands from its drying measures, usually olive oil in a liquid [KOAH] based soap. Many tallows such as rabbit and lamb also lather very well. Bright Blessings, Kim At 08:52 PM 2/11/2005, you wrote: I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm most interested to see what you achieve. What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product The amount of lye needed will depend on how much you used in the biodiesel process, ie on the titration result. Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) Well above - probably until it stops bubbling. Not something to do in an enclosed space. and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. The trouble is it's not just glycerine, and if it were you wouldn't be able to make soap out of it - glycerine is an ingredient of soap, a non-essential ingredient furthermore. Soap is made out of fats and oils, and the fats and oils you'll be making soap out of this way (soap with a VERY high glycerine content) (and a high content of impurities) will be the Free Fatty Acids displaced from the brew by the NaOH. Aka soapstock or foots. Not the ideal material for the making of quality soap. From about soapstock/foots here: The Fats and Oils: a General View, by Carl L. Alsberg and Alonzo E. Taylor, 1928, Food http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#fatsoils Food Fats and Oils (1994) -- online book (Acrobat file, 1.3Mb): http://www.iseo.org/foodfatsoils.pdf I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. Please do, and good luck. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. There are other choices before you get to throwing it away. Before you get to composting it too. Best wishes Keith Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi Luc and everyone, I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might have something to say about all this biofuel stuff. Anyway, she's pretty knowledgeable (PhD in chemistry - Dartmuth) and has a few comments about the process you are suggesting. If I developed a similar process and she had commented likewise, I'd be pretty happy about that (even if she makes me happy anyway). Nice job! :-) Mike _ She writes: Hi Honey, Perhaps winter would be a better time to try not buying soap If you get really good at making bars, we can always try adding things like fragrances and cool designs, and then you can sell it... As far as the process goes, it sounds reasonable. I have two comments however. First, you really don't need to use a little more than warm water to dissolve NaOH; it is readily soluble in water and actually produces its own heat when you mix the two. Second, I would caution against increasing the amount of NaOH much above 15-20 g/L because NaOH is caustic and can burn the skin if it's too concentrated. I've attached an MSDS in case you would like to know more. Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Honey, This one's on-topic. Maybe I'll stop buying soap this summer :-) Mike Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Legal Eagle To: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:08:24 -0500 CC: Subject: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
- Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Hi Luc and everyone, I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might have something to say about all this biofuel stuff. Anyway, she's pretty knowledgeable (PhD in chemistry - Dartmuth) and has a few comments about the process you are suggesting. If I developed a similar process and she had commented likewise, I'd be pretty happy about that (even if she makes me happy anyway). Nice job! Thanks, although I cannot take the credit for originality. Just like my reactor/wash tank design is an acumulation of other peoples' ideas that I fit to my particular situation so it is with this. http://eline2000.com/eline/articles/barsoap/barsoap.htm is the original. :-) Mike _ She writes: Hi Honey, Perhaps winter would be a better time to try not buying soap If you get really good at making bars, we can always try adding things like fragrances and cool designs, and then you can sell it... Yup ! In my case however there are people who have voiced an interest (if I can get it right) in non-fragranced glycerine based soap as they have reactions to the perfume in commercial soap. We didn't have the time to explain to them what the commecial hard bar soap actually has in it. In order to up their profit margins Corporate has removed the glycerine from the soap, however in order to make it still stay hard they add a special hardener (no, it doesn't start with a V) which is actually a promoter of bacterial growth (yuk), not so with soft soap. As far as the process goes, it sounds reasonable. I have two comments however. First, you really don't need to use a little more than warm water to dissolve NaOH; it is readily soluble in water and actually produces its own heat when you mix the two. Actually you do, in spite of the self heating properties, as you want it close to the temparature of the gkycerine you are pouring it into. I did one batch (which failed miserably) where the glycerine was still over 60C (140F) and the water/NaOH mix was just barely warmed and the thing took on a life of it's own. I mean it was bubbling and carrying on and ended up making sponge soap, ha! Useless anyway. Second, I would caution against increasing the amount of NaOH much above 15-20 g/L because NaOH is caustic and can burn the skin if it's too concentrated. Wise counsel. The original recipe called for, are you ready? 38.5gr/liter ! Afetr the disaster batch I figured I would never mind the recipe (like any good chef does) and go it by trials. I have no plans to go over the 20gr/liter though as that seems to be quite enough. Actaully I might even decrease it depending on what the results of the test runs give. The second and third ones look REALLY good at this point but we won't know until it has cured awhile and I take it into the bathroom and wash something with it, my hands most likely. LOL! Dry *hands* I can live with ... Now apparently using KOH produces a liquid soap as it doesn't harden like the glycerine with NaOH will, but that will have to be someone else's toy as I haven't started using that as yet. Seems that it would be simpler though, after all you don't have to worry about it getting hard. Luc I've attached an MSDS in case you would like to know more. Thanks again, I already have it. Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Honey, This one's on-topic. Maybe I'll stop buying soap this summer :-) Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
