Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Hi Jesse. Wrapped in R60? Hardly. This is one of the pre-OPEC oil-squeeze, early 70's cookie-cutter, suburban row-house energy nightmares. When I did some kitchen plumbing renovations, I found we had one section of exterior wall with no insulation in it at all. However, I elected to work with what we had, and to try pretty much everything (as time permits) that can reasonably be expected to cut fuel consumption while having a reasonable economic payback. The key has been to go for the easy wins first (pick the low hanging fruit). The original insulation in the attic when we bought it in 1987 was R-12. Now it is at least R-60 in most of the attic, and higher over the main stair case (convection chimney). My suggestion to the DIY crowd: the fibreglass batts are cheap compared to your time, so when you're doing the work anyway, put in lots. Don't stop at R- 40 because the conventional wisdom says that's the economical cut-off point. Fuel prices are going up, not down. If you do R-40 this year, and rising fuel prices change the conventional wisdom cut-off point to R-50 by next spring, how long will it be before you will go into the attic again to make another layer of improvement? The next best thing I did here was to really seal and insulate the ground floor joists at the exterior walls. The temperature in our basement went up 2 degrees C as a result of that one change. The point I keep trying to make is that it isn't one big thing that gets the desired end result; it's all the little things that add up to get there. Even with the changes I have made already, there are still things I want to do to further reduce our household conventional energy consumption. Darryl McMahon Date sent: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:31:01 -0400 From: mark manchester [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Send reply to: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Darryl, I'm STUNNED!!! Your house must be wrapped in R60. Congratulations for your efficient heating! Last January I paid $500 for natural gas heating FOR THAT MONTH alone. And yah, we did upgrade the insulation through that GreenSaver programme. That was the improved cost. Dang. Yup, I'm looking at your tips, yes please. Jesse [snip] I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
I can't speak for size, but I do know that homes in the south are typically built without any insulation. When gas prices were low, this was seen as an extra construction expense that was only justified in the north... Even many of the ones here in Colorado from the 60's and 70's had minimal insulation, as it was not seen as cost effective. Obviously, we're changing our minds now. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Hello I tried BD in my central heating system and it works fine. I have Arimax 520 + boiler (see http://www.thermia.fi/default.asp?ownerid=14dual boilers) and Oilon junior oil burner (see http://www.oilon.com/products/small/juniorprotechnical.html) Now I'm connecting my BDprosessor to central heating also, lets see how it works. Sami - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct I have a cental heating system in our house that burns natural gas. The unit sits in a closet in about the dead center of the house. I live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast, so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof.Does anyone have this setup and use BD or byproduct or bioheating oil to supplement/reduce natural gas/electric heating? If so, how do you do it? Or, what would be the best way to do it?I was thinking of getting one or two of the 'kerosene' space heaters and using BD in them, so I could lower the thermostat.-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
The most sensible solution for sustainable home heating is Geothermal Heat. Terry Dyck From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:55:19 -0400 Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Darryl McMahon wrote: Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I'd just like to echo Darryls message that reducing your energy usage is a much better idea than finding an alternate energy source. I live in Maine with far colder winters, and heat a fair sized house (~2500 sq feet) and hot water for 4 with ~700 gallons per year. I built the house with 6 walls and an inch and a half of foam on the outside and a foot or so of fiberglass in the ceiling. In South Carolina you'd probably save more on AC in the summer than you do on heat in the winter. And the exhaust from your power plants wouldn't rain as much acid down on Maine:) --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
On 10/4/05, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can only assume these are large homes.I live in Ottawa, Canada.South Carolinais where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold.My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximatelyUS$500.It is a reasonably small house though.Heating season here is October toMay.(But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill.http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htmYou should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ It is a fairly large house, five split-levels (Not full fledged floors, but half-floors arranged on a staggered basis). Because of the split-level nature, it has a lot of wide open airspace inside. And wide open airspaces are not conducive to good heating, or really even cooling, as they're just massive pockets of unused air that needs to be heated or cooled regardless. I'll agree immediately that we could have designed our house better. However, we do have insulation (R14) in all the exterior walls, and R14 blown insulation (I think that's the R-value, I'll have to check again) in the attic and any roof airspace that isn't inhabited. The basement, where I live, is easily one of the easiest places to cool (No south facing at all, and its only windows sit underneath a wraparound porch connected to the floor above mine.), but it's a pain in the butt to heat because it's made of concrete under sheetrock and, again, has no south facing. I won't get any radiant solar heat in my room, most of the others will. Luckily, I prefer cooler climates than we get down here anyway (I'm still wearing shorts when it's sub-50's F down here.), so this isn't a big problem for me. The rest of the house tends toward large window spaces to let it a lot of natural light, but at the same time these large windows allow heat to escape. It's economical at times, but during the winter it bites. We did install inert-gas pocket insulated double-pane windows when we built it; I'll look up the R-value again if necessary. It's about a seven year old house, now; might be a little older than that. Concrete foundation, wood construction from there up. Vinyl siding (We originally almost went for brick, which would have been better, but it was too expensive at the time.), and asphalt shingles on the roof. The roof pitch on the south side of the house is nearly perfect (It's a huge expanse of sharply pitched roof) for a solar water heater setup, or even photovoltaic panels; it stays rather well lit during every season, and thesharp pitch makes its surface area enormous. It's a house with potential, but we don't have the money to really exploit it right now, so... Looking for other options. Such as BD (Working on my final little set up to make some test batches today, should have results in tomorrow. ^_^) in the central heating and such. Thanks for the sites, I'll check them out later when I'm actually at home. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Darryl, I'm STUNNED!!! Your house must be wrapped in R60. Congratulations for your efficient heating! Last January I paid $500 for natural gas heating FOR THAT MONTH alone. And yah, we did upgrade the insulation through that GreenSaver programme. That was the improved cost. Dang. Yup, I'm looking at your tips, yes please. Jesse [snip] I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Hello Kurt, On 10/4/05, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ It is a fairly large house, five split-levels (Not full fledged floors, but half-floors arranged on a staggered basis). Because of the split-level nature, it has a lot of wide open airspace inside. And wide open airspaces are not conducive to good heating, or really even cooling, as they're just massive pockets of unused air that needs to be heated or cooled regardless. I'll agree immediately that we could have designed our house better. However, we do have insulation (R14) in all the exterior walls, and R14 blown insulation (I think that's the R-value, I'll have to check again) in the attic and any roof airspace that isn't inhabited. R14 is minimally acceptable in the walls, and quite low for the attic, IMHO, if you are trying to retain heat. On a cold day, check the tops of your walls on the inside for temperature. Blown cellulose insulation can pack or settle down over time. If the top of the wall is colder than mid-wall, you may have a cavity in the insulation. I would start with more insulation in the attic. I have about R60. If you have a steeply pitched roof, you should have lots of room for more insulation. Once the attic insulation is upgraded, you should have warm air pooling at the ceiling of the top floor. I like fibreglass batts for attic insulation, but this seems to be a matter of personal taste. In my experience with split-levels, there is nothing to stop the warm air from going to the top of the building on convection alone. Once you have heat pooling at the top ceiling, use either ceiling fans to push it back down to where the people are, or pull it into a central heating system via the cold air return, and leave the furnace fan running even when the furnace is not producing heat. The basement, where I live, is easily one of the easiest places to cool (No south facing at all, and its only windows sit underneath a wraparound porch connected to the floor above mine.), but it's a pain in the butt to heat because it's made of concrete under sheetrock and, again, has no south facing. I won't get any radiant solar heat in my room, most of the others will. Luckily, I prefer cooler climates than we get down here anyway (I'm still wearing shorts when it's sub-50's F down here.), so this isn't a big problem for me. The rest of the house tends toward large window spaces to let it a lot of natural light, but at the same time these large windows allow heat to escape. It's economical at times, but during the winter it bites. We did install inert-gas pocket insulated double-pane windows when we built it; I'll look up the R-value again if necessary. Given you have a lot of windows, with an insulation value of approximately R3 (I'm guessing from that description), I suspect these are your second culprit after the attic. One common approach is to add a layer of transparent plastic on the inside of the windows in the autumn, to help reduce heat loss. It does have a minor impact on solar gain as well, but is generally considered a net benefit. To help keep warmth in at the windows, I recommend insulated blinds (available at high-end home decorating stores), or for those on a more limited budget, window quilts. More on window quilts at http://www.econogics.com/busys/wnquilt.htm . These approaches permit you to get passive solar gain during daylight hours, and increase the R value at night to help hold the heat in. Some folks cut styrofoam board for windows that are not sun-facing, and leave them in place all heating season. 1-inch board is R5, 1.5-inch is R7.5, 2-inch board is R10. A pain for windows where you want to see out during the day, in my experience. There are other approaches, but they tend to be more expensive as retro-fits. It's about a seven year old house, now; might be a little older than that. Concrete foundation, wood construction from there up. Vinyl siding (We originally almost went for brick, which would have been better, but it was too expensive at the time.), and asphalt shingles on the roof. The roof pitch on the south side of the house is nearly perfect (It's a huge expanse of sharply pitched roof) for a solar water heater setup, or even photovoltaic panels; it stays rather well lit during every season, and the sharp pitch makes its surface area
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Greetings, Except in areas of high humidity where mold and mildew are your worst enemies. There are no 'one size fits all' solutions. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:30 AM 10/4/2005, you wrote: The most sensible solution for sustainable home heating is Geothermal Heat. Terry Dyck From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:55:19 -0400 Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
howdy terry, isn't that a bit of over generalization? the most sensible sustainable heat for my home is wood. I have sufficient land in oak/hickory forest to take firewood forever. I have the most efficient wood stove I could by and live in a very low population area. For someone in a high population density area, district heat, using a local power plant's waste heat would be more efficient that a heat pump. just a comment. Terry Dyck wrote: The most sensible solution for sustainable home heating is Geothermal Heat. Terry Dyck From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:55:19 -0400 Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.com/en/natgas.htm You should also visit Hakan's site at http://www.energysavingnow.com/ Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
mark manchester wrote: Darryl, I'm STUNNED!!! Your house must be wrapped in R60. Well, I live on the left coast, which is considerably milder than Ottawa, but my family of four only spent about $700 on natural gas last winter. Insulation, weatherstripping and good windows are key. We could do more with window quilts, but my sweetheart isn't too fond of the idea. . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Forwarded Message From: "Terry Dyck" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:30:46 + To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ] The most sensible solution for sustainable home heating is Geothermal Heat. Terry DyckNo it isn't. Your best bet is to build a home that doesn't require heating/cooling. This means lots of thermal mass, ideally exterior thermal mass, insulation, interior thermal mass (opposite of ICF insulated concrete form). Use R values greater than 3 (u value greater than .33) for your windows. Incorporate passive solar design. Next on the hierarchy is insulation (ie I already screwed up and used stick frame, what can I do). Continuous insulation (like foam wrapped around the outside of the home is good, because the wood in your home is conducting heat).If insulation were free, more would be better. Given it has a cost, stop somewhere around r30/r40. At that point your next insulation dollar should be spent on upgrading your windows (actually you should work on your windows once you get to R19 in the walls). You can get R8 windows (Canadian manufacturer). Once you have R8 (U.125) windows, add some more insulation to the walls/roof :-. Now why are our NC folks getting so cold? Because they are in an area of the country where summers are hot so people dont think so much about the cold. But consider this. Heating/cooling is in large part about the distance we get from 70 degrees F (cool enough in summer, toasty warm in winter). If your temperatures range from 30 to 100 you need 33% more energy to get warm on the coldest day (40 degrees F from 70) than you do get cool on the hottest day (30 degrees F from 70). But your house is optimized for cooling (no radiant in-floor heat), ducts placed for A/C, whimpy, expensive to operate furnaces.OK. Now on to active systems. Choice # 1 is solar heat (you can use an air coil (heat air by blowing it across a heat exchanger heated from solar) if for some reason you dont have/cant add radiant heat). Solar heat will always be cheaper than geothermal (all energy comes from the sun, the farther you get from the sun, the greater your real costs are (ie natural gas is cheaper than solar PV because we are deferring the pollution costs (start with 200 billion for Katrina recovery), we subsidize natural gas, etc. etc).For cooling, if you havent build a house like I told you to above and if your climate rarely sees 90s, do it with night-time cooling. If you need both heating and cooling and you have less than a month in the 90s, you can cool your home with radiant cooling, using passive geothermal (ie no compressor). If you live in a hot climate that needs cooling and heating, dont have radiant, have a poorly built home (ie 90+% of all homes), why then I agree with Terry, and geothermal (active) is your best bet (but throw up some PV to offset the electric requirements of your compressor (energy hog). It is much cheaper than trying to accomplish cooling your house by heat exchange with outside air (ie extracting cool from 100+ degree air) the traditional air conditioning system. But as I have said, geothermal will never be a cheaper option than solar for heating, and a well designed house elegantly side steps the whole issue. From: "Darryl McMahon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:55:19 -0400 Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. I can only assume these are large homes. I live in Ottawa, Canada. South Carolina is where our snowbirds go in the winter to get away from the cold. My annual natural gas heating bill, including hot water, is about Cdn$600, approximately US$500. It is a reasonably small house though. Heating season here is October to May. (But it's getting shorter courtesy of global warming.) I have some tips for you on reducing you heating bill. http://www.econogics.co
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
Stop. Don't. Been there, done that. BD won't climb a wick. I got a Kerosun with a wick running on about 40/60 BD/kero but it wasn't worth the hassle. A gun or nozzle style works much better, or google OM-22. It runs well on *good quality* BD cut with a little HHO1. It will run but coke up on crummy BD or HHO2. Might want to get the cleaning video. Ping me off list if you want gory details! -Mike Paul S Cantrell wrote: I have a cental heating system in our house that burns natural gas. The unit sits in a closet in about the dead center of the house. I live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast, so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. Does anyone have this setup and use BD or byproduct or bioheating oil to supplement/reduce natural gas/electric heating? If so, how do you do it? Or, what would be the best way to do it? I was thinking of getting one or two of the 'kerosene' space heaters and using BD in them, so I could lower the thermostat. -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
I believe that there are number of people on this list who have used biodiesel in furnaces designed for heating oil. Might be something in the archives from people who have done this. On 10/3/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stop. Don't. Been there, done that. BD won't climb a wick. I got a Kerosun with a wick running on about 40/60 BD/kero but it wasn't worth the hassle. A gun or nozzle style works much better, or google OM-22. It runs well on *good quality* BD cut with a little HHO1. It will run but coke up on crummy BD or HHO2. Might want to get the cleaning video. Ping me off list if you want gory details! -Mike Paul S Cantrell wrote: I have a cental heating system in our house that burns natural gas. The unit sits in a closet in about the dead center of the house. I live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast, so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. Does anyone have this setup and use BD or byproduct or bioheating oil to supplement/reduce natural gas/electric heating? If so, how do you do it? Or, what would be the best way to do it? I was thinking of getting one or two of the 'kerosene' space heaters and using BD in them, so I could lower the thermostat. -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
There is a list devoted to this. [EMAIL PROTECTED] DO NOT ask *any* questions about anythng but gun-style furnaces - Becket Riello and so on. If you ask about BD in a Kerosun or anything not strictly related to furnaces, they'll rip you head off. Good luck! Zeke Yewdall wrote: I believe that there are number of people on this list who have used biodiesel in furnaces designed for heating oil. Might be something in the archives from people who have done this. On 10/3/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stop. Don't. Been there, done that. BD won't climb a wick. I got a Kerosun with a wick running on about 40/60 BD/kero but it wasn't worth the hassle. A gun or nozzle style works much better, or google OM-22. It runs well on *good quality* BD cut with a little HHO1. It will run but coke up on crummy BD or HHO2. Might want to get the cleaning video. Ping me off list if you want gory details! -Mike Paul S Cantrell wrote: I have a cental heating system in our house that burns natural gas. The unit sits in a closet in about the dead center of the house. I live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast, so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. Does anyone have this setup and use BD or byproduct or bioheating oil to supplement/reduce natural gas/electric heating? If so, how do you do it? Or, what would be the best way to do it? I was thinking of getting one or two of the 'kerosene' space heaters and using BD in them, so I could lower the thermostat. -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Heat by BD or byproduct
On 10/3/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iI live near Charleston, SC USA about 40 miles from the coast,/i so it gets cold for a few weeks or a couple of months depending on your definition of cold. Anyway heating season is about November to March and natural gas prices are through the roof. I'm really keen on what you find out as a solution here, too. I'm also an SC-er, Upstate, near Clemson/Anderson. Similar scenario, centralized heating with a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement, and we're staring an estimated two grand in heating costs for the winter. (Wide open house. Dumb idea when it freezes regularly during the winter. Heating all that airspace sucks up the gas. x.x) So if you get suggestions or ideas, please share? I'll be keeping an ear out myself and send some your way if I hear them. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
