Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
Guys This is getting us nowhere. We are all guilty of using more energy than is necessary. Every time you turn on a radio, or the TV you are wasting energy. Everytime a musical instrument is made or a picture is painted it is a waste of resources. Decorating the inside of your house is a waste of both energy and ressources. BUT No one wants to exist in a world where there is no quality of life. The way I see it is that our obligation is to live full lives with as low an impact on the planet as possible. This doesn't mean judging other people because their recreational tastes are different to your own. It means encouraging everyone to try alternative ways of doing things. So lets get back to discusssing the best ways of minimising our impact on the earth...In the words of the bible - let him who is without sin cast the first stone... Chas From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:16:43 -0700 I'm going to put my $.02 in. I'm in the process of buying a '85 Toyota Land Cruiser BJ60. Why? 1) Because it will be getting better milage than the little Subarue SW I now have. 2) I have a growing family, that just fits in to the Subarue (2 adults + 2 children + 2 child safty seats makes for little room left over ), and getting the children in and out of the safty seats is diffacult enough. Forget taking friends or anyone else, no more will fit into the thing, not even another child. 3) I'll be able to use biodiesel or veg. oil in it. Funny thing, my parents bought a '85 Mercury Grand Marqui and the wheel base on it is no smaller than many of todays SUVs, and in a few cases it is bigger. Someone mentioned that it was not a case of SUV's getting bigger, but, cars getting smaller, and I can't help but think that they were correct, because in '85 the Grand Marqui was a average full size car, and now the average full size car is smaller. Greg H. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailxAPID=42PS=47575PI=7324DI=7474SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsgHL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
I'm going to put my $.02 in. I'm in the process of buying a '85 Toyota Land Cruiser BJ60. Why? 1) Because it will be getting better milage than the little Subarue SW I now have. 2) I have a growing family, that just fits in to the Subarue (2 adults + 2 children + 2 child safty seats makes for little room left over ), and getting the children in and out of the safty seats is diffacult enough. Forget taking friends or anyone else, no more will fit into the thing, not even another child. 3) I'll be able to use biodiesel or veg. oil in it. Funny thing, my parents bought a '85 Mercury Grand Marqui and the wheel base on it is no smaller than many of todays SUVs, and in a few cases it is bigger. Someone mentioned that it was not a case of SUV's getting bigger, but, cars getting smaller, and I can't help but think that they were correct, because in '85 the Grand Marqui was a average full size car, and now the average full size car is smaller. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
CytoCulture in Richmond California has a paper available I think (online also I think) about this subject. Mark At 04:55 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Well said Hakan. Has anyone done a study of biodiesel and or Veg oil fuels and its affect say in marine boating use? Does either creat simular health hazards to aquatic life as does dino fuels? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also feel the need to say something here, since it is not really are the true off-roading that is the major energy problem. It may or may not be a problem of where it is done, but as in so many cases there are irresponsible individuals that probably does not represent the majority. I learned to drive-off road first as a teenager with tractors in the field and forest, very little on-road use for farmers/foresters and if so, definitely not for pleasure on road transportation. I enhanced my of off-road education in the military, where I learned up to large 6- 8 wheeler vehicles with trailers. I must say that I liked the off road experiences, especially in the small jeeps, and it probably added somewhat to my driving education. The problem with SUV is that probably nearly all of them never see an off road environment, it is cool to have them and there is where the stupidity starts. Many have some sort of complex that I do not want to mention, because then the flames will start to show for this email. They feel a power of some sort, in driving on-road with a SUV. It is however some that are using SUVs for towing trailers etc. and in this you can make a case for it. If you are a true responsible off-roader and only drive on-road to and from your off road environment, then you are probably using less fuel for your pleasure than the pleasure boater. So an expansion of the critics of off road driving and single this activity out, is not really productive. If the pleasure boater have the same instinct as most of the SUV owners, we can only be happy that they can't take their boats on-road. Just think about how the highways would look in rush hour, if they could go to and from work in their boats. I know that they often refer to cities as a Jungle, but I do not really think that you can motivate it as off-road environment where you need a SUV. For me you can take your SUV for off-road driving fun, but keep it exclusively for that and do not destroy/trespass without permission from landowners. Keep your SUV for your pleasure and have a fuel efficient car (preferably diesel) for your exclusive on road transportation. If you do not do that, you are irresponsible, without any doubts. Hakan At 02:22 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Jessup, If you are referring to Harmon as a Good Samaritain Green you are way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many occasions. If you are going to bring up the point that you are a Good Off- roading Citizen, then you need to wear the colors of the jerk that insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for the fun of it. I was too a trail ridin' Tread Lightly off road runner. Many times I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too expensive for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was capable of hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that tries to do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the property. Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it is not worth it. I needed to chime in on this one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I don't scare off to easy sorry that offends you. I have the right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called standing up for what you believe in. Gee funny that when the supposedly earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it is ok but when someone against their views does it... then it is evil. Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. So who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward persons and property. The sad thing is
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
I also feel the need to say something here, since it is not really are the true off-roading that is the major energy problem. It may or may not be a problem of where it is done, but as in so many cases there are irresponsible individuals that probably does not represent the majority. I learned to drive-off road first as a teenager with tractors in the field and forest, very little on-road use for farmers/foresters and if so, definitely not for pleasure on road transportation. I enhanced my of off-road education in the military, where I learned up to large 6-8 wheeler vehicles with trailers. I must say that I liked the off road experiences, especially in the small jeeps, and it probably added somewhat to my driving education. The problem with SUV is that probably nearly all of them never see an off road environment, it is cool to have them and there is where the stupidity starts. Many have some sort of complex that I do not want to mention, because then the flames will start to show for this email. They feel a power of some sort, in driving on-road with a SUV. It is however some that are using SUVs for towing trailers etc. and in this you can make a case for it. If you are a true responsible off-roader and only drive on-road to and from your off road environment, then you are probably using less fuel for your pleasure than the pleasure boater. So an expansion of the critics of off road driving and single this activity out, is not really productive. If the pleasure boater have the same instinct as most of the SUV owners, we can only be happy that they can't take their boats on-road. Just think about how the highways would look in rush hour, if they could go to and from work in their boats. I know that they often refer to cities as a Jungle, but I do not really think that you can motivate it as off-road environment where you need a SUV. For me you can take your SUV for off-road driving fun, but keep it exclusively for that and do not destroy/trespass without permission from landowners. Keep your SUV for your pleasure and have a fuel efficient car (preferably diesel) for your exclusive on road transportation. If you do not do that, you are irresponsible, without any doubts. Hakan At 02:22 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Jessup, If you are referring to Harmon as a Good Samaritain Green you are way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many occasions. If you are going to bring up the point that you are a Good Off- roading Citizen, then you need to wear the colors of the jerk that insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for the fun of it. I was too a trail ridin' Tread Lightly off road runner. Many times I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too expensive for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was capable of hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that tries to do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the property. Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it is not worth it. I needed to chime in on this one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I don't scare off to easy sorry that offends you. I have the right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called standing up for what you believe in. Gee funny that when the supposedly earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it is ok but when someone against their views does it... then it is evil. Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. So who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward persons and property. The sad thing is in this post you aired out your dirty laundry like a badge to wear. And if you really want to know, I got several emails off list by other offroaders who are members of this list in support of my comments last time and this. Many don't care to deal with the raging intolerance and narrow mindedness cause often these poor souls cause themselves harm all on their own with out much help. I, on the the other hand feel though some of them on the way to harming themselfs harm a few good people too so at times I speak out. Not often... maybe not often
