CytoCulture in Richmond California has a paper available I think (online also I think) about this subject. Mark
At 04:55 AM 12/23/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Well said Hakan. > >Has anyone done a study of biodiesel and or Veg oil fuels and its >affect say in marine boating use? Does either creat simular health >hazards to aquatic life as does dino fuels? > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I also feel the need to say something here, since it is not really >are the > > true off-roading that is the major energy problem. It may or may >not be a > > problem of where it is done, but as in so many cases there are > > irresponsible individuals that probably does not represent the >majority. > > > > I learned to drive-off road first as a teenager with tractors in >the field > > and forest, very little on-road use for farmers/foresters and if >so, > > definitely not for pleasure on road transportation. I enhanced my >of > > off-road education in the military, where I learned up to large 6- >8 wheeler > > vehicles with trailers. I must say that I liked the off road >experiences, > > especially in the small jeeps, and it probably added somewhat to >my driving > > education. > > > > The problem with SUV is that probably nearly all of them never see >an off > > road environment, it is cool to have them and there is where the >stupidity > > starts. Many have some sort of complex that I do not want to >mention, > > because then the flames will start to show for this email. They >feel a > > power of some sort, in driving on-road with a SUV. It is however >some that > > are using SUVs for towing trailers etc. and in this you can make a >case for > > it. > > > > If you are a true responsible off-roader and only drive on-road to >and from > > your off road environment, then you are probably using less fuel >for your > > pleasure than the pleasure boater. So an expansion of the critics >of off > > road driving and single this activity out, is not really >productive. If the > > pleasure boater have the same instinct as most of the SUV owners, >we can > > only be happy that they can't take their boats on-road. Just think >about > > how the highways would look in rush hour, if they could go to and >from work > > in their boats. > > > > I know that they often refer to cities as a Jungle, but I do not >really > > think that you can motivate it as off-road environment where you >need a SUV. > > For me you can take your SUV for off-road driving fun, but keep it > > exclusively for that and do not destroy/trespass without >permission from > > landowners. Keep your SUV for your pleasure and have a fuel >efficient car > > (preferably diesel) for your exclusive on road transportation. If >you do > > not do that, you are irresponsible, without any doubts. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 02:22 AM 12/23/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > >Jessup, > > > > > >If you are referring to Harmon as a "Good Samaritain Green" you >are > > >way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many >occasions. > > > > > >If you are going to bring up the point that you are a "Good Off- > > >roading Citizen," then you need to wear the colors of the jerk >that > > >insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for >the > > >fun of it. > > > > > >I was too a trail ridin' "Tread Lightly" off road runner. Many >times > > >I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too >expensive > > >for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either > > >riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was >capable of > > >hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. > > > > > >If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also > > >remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that >tries to > > >do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the > > >property. > > > > > >Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful > > >language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it >is > > >not worth it. > > > > > >I needed to chime in on this one. > > > > > >fred > > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "coachgeo3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > So I don't scare off to easy.... sorry that offends you. I >have > > >the > > > > right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called >standing > > >up > > > > for what you believe in. Geeeeee funny that when the >supposedly > > > > earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it >is ok > > > > but when someone against their views does it... then it is >evil. > > > > Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the > > > > air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing > > > > Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. > > > > > > > > You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on > > > > offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good > > > > Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. > > >So.... > > > > who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an > > > > offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got > > > > previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward > > > > persons and property. The sad thing is in this post you aired >out > > > > your dirty laundry like a badge to wear. > > > > > > > > And if you really want to know, I got several emails off list >by > > > > other offroaders who are members of this list in support of my > > > > comments last time and this. Many don't care to deal with the > > > > raging intolerance and narrow mindedness cause often these poor > > > > souls cause themselves harm all on their own with out much >help. > > >I, > > > > on the the other hand feel though some of them on the way to > > >harming > > > > themselfs harm a few good people too so at times I speak out. >Not > > > > often... maybe not often enough > > > > > > > > Sharing the earth "responsibly" > > > > > > > > GP Jessup III-coachgeo3 (notice I don't give a shiat if you >put my > > > > name out there... its been there all along. BTW··. Was >pointing out > > > > my name so quickly meant to be a subliminal threat? If so Im > > > > shaking in my boots. NAUGHTTTT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > > > > GP Jessup III-coachgeo3, has it somehow slipped your mind >that > > > > you've > > > > > stated this case here before, and very much got the worst of >it? > > > > Now > > > > > you come back a few months later and say it all over again >as if > > > > it > > > > > never happened, using the arguments that got you such a >drubbing > > > > last > > > > > time. I'm sorry, but that's just boring - if you really have > > > > > forgotten it all, then please go to the archives and look up >the > > > > > thread "Open Season on Open Space", plus associated threads, >and > > > > if > > > > > you still want to be so bold then try to find an argument >that > > > > didn't > > > > > get blown away last time. > > > > > > > > > > You can start here if you like: > > > > > > <http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=15122&list=BIOFUEL>http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=15122&list=BIOFUEL > > > > > > > > > > Fairly typical of the response you got: > > > > > > > > > > >Harmon, > > > > > > > > > > > >The tire spikes and razor wire may be a little severe but, > > > > > >I can empathise with your disgust. I have personally left a > > > > > >couple of dickheads laying crumpled in the dust(one got a > > > > > >good left hook and the other a nice kick in the balls) for > > > > > >their blatant disregard for my right to keep my property > > > > > >free from earth abusers. I believe that there will come a > > > > > >time real soon where people who commit crimes against the > > > > > >earth will be prosecuted with equal fervor as those who > > > > > >commit crimes against people. > > > > > > > > > > > >kris > > > > > > > > > > > >--- harmonseaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "coachgeo3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am an avide offroader and we have seen PUBLIC land > > > > > > > closed to the > > > > > > > > PUBLIC way to much. Yes... their are peope who abuse > > > > > > > the land but > > > > > > > > lets punish that small percentage not the larger > > > > > > > percentage of those > > > > > > > > who do not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, and I mean *ALL*, motorized offroad use needs to > > > > > > > be stopped > > > > > > > ASAP. And that includes motorboats. There's just no > > > > > > > excuse for > > > > > > > polluting and using up precious resources for recreation. > > > > > > > The noise > > > > > > > factor alone is reason enough. If the gov't won't do it, > > > > > > > I'll bet tire > > > > > > > spikes in the trails and barbed wire neck high will. > > > > > > > I have property in the north woods in a national > > > > > > > forest -- the > > > > > > > off-roaders laugh at no-tresspass signs. People in WI and > > > > > > > MN have been > > > > > > > threatened, assualted, and even run over when trying to > > > > > > > stop > > > > > > > off-roaders from trespassing on their property. > > > > > > > Off-roaders are a pack > > > > > > > of disgusting subhuman vermin the world could do without. > > > > > > > Anybody too > > > > > > > lazy to get off their fat ass and walk, ski, paddle, or > > > > > > > sail shouldn't > > > > > > > be allowed in the outofdoors. > > > > > > > > > > You say: > > > > > > > > > > >[pirate4x4.com] I know of thousands of 4 wheelers that take > > >pride > > > > in > > > > > >their good stewardship of mother earth. > > > > > > > > > > MM's cross-post was about future energy supplies, about >America > > > > going > > > > > to WAR - KILLING people - to commandeer oil supplies in other > > > > > people's countries (property right? - who's talking about > > >property > > > > > right?), my response mentioned (as usual) that America WASTES > > >half > > > > > its (?) energy (at the very least), and you're talking about > > > > driving > > > > > gas-guzzlers for FUN?? - and claiming that people who do it >can > > >in > > > > > some miraculous manner be acting as good stewards of mother > > >earth? > > > > > Pardon me (or not) but that is BIZARRE. > > > > > > > > > > SPORTS Utility Vehicles - what the hell is that? Utility is >not > > > > > sport, nor sport utility, and vehicles, especially these >greedy > > > > ones, > > > > > are not TOYS. > > > > > > > > > > There's a war on, in case you didn't notice - no, not the >next > > > > Iraqi > > > > > war that hasn't quite yet happened, that's just another >phase, > > > > it's > > > > > been going on for some time, with no shortage of "collateral" > > > > victims > > > > > - DEAD people. Hundreds of thousands of them, or more. During > > >WWII > > > > in > > > > > Britain the message was: "Is your journey really necessary?" >Why > > > > > don't you ask yourself that, and then come and tell us about >SUVs > > > > and > > > > > good stewardship. Good grief. > > > > > > > > > > >I love my offroading adventures yet I see upcomming fuel > > >problems. > > > > > > > > > > Get a burro. > > > > > > > > > > >My decision to go with Bio-Diesel/ Veg oil use is largely >based > > >on > > > > > >wanting to do better for the economy and to further protect >the > > > > land > > > > > >I love to explore, Yeah protect... as in wont have to dig a >new > > > > > >wells for oil to provide my and other offroaders fuel needs. > > >And > > > > > >the Veg oil use keeps the farmers working. > > > > > > > > > > Wasting energy is wasting energy, it doesn't matter what >sort of > > > > > energy you're wasting - simply substituting nice green >biofuels > > > > for > > > > > horrible dirty fossil fuels is no less irresponsible if >you're > > > > > wasting it. And you are. Unimog 404s were not built >for "fun". > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply Below > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > > > > > > Some interesting ideas Earl. I'm going to take the >liberty of > > > > > >passing > > > > > > > them along to a few other discussion areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for the post; it was a reasonable editorial. It > > >really > > > > > >makes > > > > > > > >me angry to to hear counter-criticisms like "denying >freedom > > > > of > > > > > >choice > > > > > > > >to hundreds of thousands of sublimely happy SUV owners" > > > > > >and "Alliance > > > > > > > >against Fun." These people just don't get it (because >of > > > > course > > > > > >our > > > > > > > >government and media won't tell them the truth). People > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > >have have the right to drive irresponsible cars just to > > >please > > > > > > > >themselves any more than they have the right to drive >on the > > > > > >sidewalk > > > > > > > >for fun: they're both extremely dangerous. Indeed the > > >former > > > > is > > > > > >in > > > > > > > >the long run going to cause a lot more death. So I >would > > > > make the > > > > > > > >case a little more forcefully: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >What makes an SUV an irresponsible car? Irresponsible >drivers > > > > make > > > > > >mistakes... they are not sports cars and should not be >driven as > > > > > >one. > > > > > > > > > > > >Otherwise....Extremely Dangerous offroad? Are u nuts.. >While > > > > there > > > > > >is a danger is is very small for the avg. offroaders and the > > > > danger > > > > > >is to the driver who chose to take the risk not bystanders. > > > > > >Obviously the danger goes higher for off road speed racing >but > > > > again > > > > > >to the driver. It remains extremely low in the Rock Crawling > > > > > >competitions. ATV use is new relatively. The learning >curve is > > > > > >kicking it. Their speeds are coming down and their good > > > > stewardship > > > > > >of land they use is on the rise. > > > > > > > > > > > >As an AVID offroader (Lightly published amateur journalist >in > > > > > >offroad circles, and Moderator of a well know hardcore 4x4 >web > > > > site > > > > > >[pirate4x4.com] I know of thousands of 4 wheelers that take > > >pride > > > > in > > > > > >their good stewardship of mother earth. There are far less >jerks > > > > > >and uneducated offroaders and it is they that cause >problems. > > > > > >Unfortunately it is the Jerks and uneducated that are >visible and > > > > > >what opinions are based on. The offroading world is >working VERY > > > > > >hard to reach the uneducated offroaders and to curb the >Jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > >I love my offroading adventures yet I see upcomming fuel > > >problems. > > > > > >My decision to go with Bio-Diesel/ Veg oil use is largely >based > > >on > > > > > >wanting to do better for the economy and to further protect >the > > > > land > > > > > >I love to explore, Yeah protect... as in wont have to dig a >new > > > > > >wells for oil to provide my and other offroaders fuel needs. > > >And > > > > > >the Veg oil use keeps the farmers working. > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/b > iofuel.html > > > > > >Biofuels list archives: > > ><http://archive.nnytech.net/>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: ><http://archive.nnytech.net/>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
