Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello Jonathan We installed an Elsbett system mainly to solve the problem of using biodiesel in winter. Our WVO biodiesel is fine down to about -5 deg C, but it gets to -12 C or lower here. With the Elsbett system we've used biodiesel through two winters without additives and without any problems. For two years we used SVO during the summer and biodiesel in winter. Even with Elsbett's pre-heating, the SVO was no use at below -5 deg C, it gelled in the tank, and the Elsbett system doesn't come with tank heating. We don't use SVO now, we prefer biodiesel and use 100% WVO biodiesel all year round. For using SVO at below -5 deg C with an Elsbett system try adding a tank heater. More info on heating here: Biodiesel in winter http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html HTH Best Keith Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071213/7291b188/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello Jonathan et al The main problem with SVO is the high boiling point. This includes both the FFA and the SVO molecule itself. The points of turning the SVO into biodiesel are the following: 1) The final boiling point of the fuel will not exceed 370oC, which is proper for modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 2) The viscosity will drop til approx. max 5cSt, which is acceptable to modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 3) Using the proper recipe when performing the process, the FFA will be reduced or saponified. This will make the fuel less corrosive, assuming that the alkaline metal content of the biodiesel is taken care of . 4) The chemically bounded glycerine in SVO will partially be released from the SVO in hot environment. The glycerine is hard to combust, since it rather forms deposits than CO2 and water. Best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071213/7291b188/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello all! Has anyone checked them out and find out what's in that secret formulation they've got and what it really does to the waste vegie oil? I'm just curious. best regards, Ken Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hallo Ken, Not sure but according to my wife's niece's boyfriend who uses the stuff you put 1/2 gallon kerosene, 1/4 gallon gasoline, cetane improver and the secret ingredients into wvo and then after 5 minutes you filter it 3 times, the last time being a water absorbtion filtering, and put it directly into your tank. This is with 20 gallons of wvo. Also, I am at my daughter's house and I may have the kerosene/gasoline ratios mixed up. Adam, the boyfriend, says he has been using it for about a month and everythng he told me he got straight from the website including how dangerous it is to use methanol and how expensive it is and how less expensive it is to use this stuff, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps some of the Germans on the list have an inkling of what he is talking about since it is claimed to have been used there in the immediate post WWII time. Sorry I can't be of more help. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth Hello all! Has anyone checked them out and find out what's in that secret formulation they've got and what it really does to the waste vegie oil? I'm just curious. best regards, Ken Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl ...snip of superfluous stuff... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector clogging. The product itself may just be placebo. (Heck! Why didn't I think of that? NOT!) Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:21 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hallo Ken, Not sure but according to my wife's niece's boyfriend who uses the stuff you put 1/2 gallon kerosene, 1/4 gallon gasoline, cetane improver and the secret ingredients into wvo and then after 5 minutes you filter it 3 times, the last time being a water absorbtion filtering, and put it directly into your tank. This is with 20 gallons of wvo. Also, I am at my daughter's house and I may have the kerosene/gasoline ratios mixed up. Adam, the boyfriend, says he has been using it for about a month and everythng he told me he got straight from the website including how dangerous it is to use methanol and how expensive it is and how less expensive it is to use this stuff, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps some of the Germans on the list have an inkling of what he is talking about since it is claimed to have been used there in the immediate post WWII time. Sorry I can't be of more help. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth Hello all! Has anyone checked them out and find out what's in that secret formulation they've got and what it really does to the waste vegie oil? I'm just curious. best regards, Ken Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl ...snip of superfluous stuff... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
My word, two loads of bullshit - not only dieselsecret but selling glyc cocktail to composters. You didn't even get offered a commission or anything on that eh Tom? LOL! The inquiries we keep getting about dieselsecret usually say they stumbled upon it and it sounds too good to be true. I put the reply on a macro: It's obvious that it's a scam... Scores and scores of times, from Aug 05 to today: Hey Keith, Have you heard of the revolutionary Diesel Secret.com? They claim to not have to go through all of the transesterfication process when making biodiesel. Is this true?? Thanks, Captain Johnny Odom It's all on our website anyway - the wondrous secret ingredient consists of xylol paint-stripper and moth balls, just what you'd want in your motor. See Veg-oil blends: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#blends It's in the list archives too, of course. No toil and trouble, just add one teaspoon of white spirit, one strip of paint, the balls of a moth, half a cup of washed mist from your mist-washer, eye of a newt, toe of frog, never mind the fire burn and cauldron bubblewash bit, just put it in and go, and Hey! I've done dozens of trouble-free miles already! This one's also better than biodiesel, and only $3,000: http://www.myfastfuel.com/index.html Alternative Fuel Solutions No more playing mad scientist with the alcohol/alkaline biodiesel method. -no preheating -no tiltrating -no washing -no chances of a corrosive fuel damaging expensive engine components, which is typical when using the alcohol/alkaline method. The fuel produced in our units comes out with a neutral PH -no glycerin to dispose of -no measuring -no dangerous mixture of explosive chemicals Not only that, your motor will last twice as long, it says. No test results though. Metal particles, dust, grit, moisture, acids, tars, additives, all removed with a filter, miraculous. But surely they can't be making a profit on it, I mean they won't be getting any glyc cocktail so they can flog it to composters. Tell you what though, the folks at dieselsecret might talk out of both sides of their mouths, but there's no shortage of avid punters out for a free lunch with their eyes crossed. Dieselsecret's laughing all the way to the bank. Best Keith Gustl, Did you get a good laugh? I had an opportunity to check out the site only recently. I got an e-mail from a worm farmer in California who wanted to know about using the glycerine from BD production for composting. He had responded to an add in his local paper selling glycerine from BD production to speed up compost piles. They sent him quotes from one of my posts to the biofuel list regarding composting with glycerine. During an exchange of e-mails he told me he was looking at a way to make biodiesel a new, easier way. He told me about www.dieselsecret.com and asked what I thought. I think I convinced him to save his money. I've been working on a bullshit-O-meter that can respond to foul websites; meter, buzzer and even a foul smell-emitting option. I hope to have it available for the holiday shopping season. Grins, Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor :-) Chris Tan wrote: Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello all! Yup! Chris is right. When I read Gustl's reply and read gasoline, I just about laughed my head off. I grew up in a motor shop with my grandfather fixing all kinds of engines, and yes, we mixed gasoline with vegie oil for quickie fixes when we run out of diesel at the shop. Quickie is all it is. Cause I've seen what that does in the long run and my granddaddy would get up from his grave and kill me if he ever heard me tell people to do it. It was a secret we had 'cause he didn't want the other mechanics to do it and ruin someone's engine. I still hear about some people adding moth balls (naphtha) once in a while and I still get a kick out of it when I hear about it. Nah! Always those pipedreams! JTF is still the real stuff. best regards, Ken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor :-) Chris Tan wrote: Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hi, There was a post a while back (Mike W. was it you?) On a trip, running low on fuel (diesel) no diesel at the pump, the person mixed some rubbing alcohol with a gallon of cheap beg oil and added it to their VW diesel. It ran fine and got them to the next station that had diesel fuel. A TV show called Mythbusters tested whether or not you can run a diesel car on veg oil. They did not modify the engine at all and found that straight veg oil worked in the car they tested. The car was an old Mercedes (will run, for a while, on just about anything). The test was run in Arizona temp 100+F . lowered viscosity of theoil? I was at a workshop on alternative fuels, and a man said that he used straight veg oil in his Peugot diesel. The car had over 300,000 miles on it. Oooo's and Aaaa's from the audience. I caught up with the guy later and I asked him how long he had been running it on veg oil. He said For about a month now. I suspect it continued to run w/o modification for another month or two. Tom - Original Message - From: Chris Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector clogging. The product itself may just be placebo. (Heck! Why didn't I think of that? NOT!) Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:21 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hallo Ken, Not sure but according to my wife's niece's boyfriend who uses the stuff you put 1/2 gallon kerosene, 1/4 gallon gasoline, cetane improver and the secret ingredients into wvo and then after 5 minutes you filter it 3 times, the last time being a water absorbtion filtering, and put it directly into your tank. This is with 20 gallons of wvo. Also, I am at my daughter's house and I may have the kerosene/gasoline ratios mixed up. Adam, the boyfriend, says he has been using it for about a month and everythng he told me he got straight from the website including how dangerous it is to use methanol and how expensive it is and how less expensive it is to use this stuff, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps some of the Germans on the list have an inkling of what he is talking about since it is claimed to have been used there in the immediate post WWII time. Sorry I can't be of more help. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth Hello all! Has anyone checked them out and find out what's in that secret formulation they've got and what it really does to the waste vegie oil? I'm just curious. best regards, Ken Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl ...snip of superfluous stuff... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hi Ken, If I remember correctly, naphthalene (moth balls) is for a fact used in small amounts in gasoline formulations to increase octane rating. But the formulation must be carefully done. Methanol is also used to increase octane rating. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:37 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hello all! Yup! Chris is right. When I read Gustl's reply and read gasoline, I just about laughed my head off. I grew up in a motor shop with my grandfather fixing all kinds of engines, and yes, we mixed gasoline with vegie oil for quickie fixes when we run out of diesel at the shop. Quickie is all it is. Cause I've seen what that does in the long run and my granddaddy would get up from his grave and kill me if he ever heard me tell people to do it. It was a secret we had 'cause he didn't want the other mechanics to do it and ruin someone's engine. I still hear about some people adding moth balls (naphtha) once in a while and I still get a kick out of it when I hear about it. Nah! Always those pipedreams! JTF is still the real stuff. best regards, Ken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor :-) Chris Tan wrote: Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
It are not placebo additives, They sell you a so called secret red additive, that might contain a emulsifier, a red color, and some solvent to lower the viscosity, if naphthalene ( mothballs) is added, that will also give it a distinct smell, giving the customer the idea that it is something special and something strong. You have to add then further Xylene and / or an other solvents like Kerosene that mainly sinks the viscosity and flash point. If you add the additives first, their synthetic biofuel will then have an other benefit, it will be easier to filter. Their formula looks to be easier then real bioD production, thats true, but most work or effort for many will be to get enough WVO. It's here in most EU countries forbidden to collect WASTE veggie oil, as a private person, without a permit. And you can get no permit for transport a few barrels on the back of your pickup or in your trunk. If you are unable to gather free WVO, their product is useless. Grts Bruno M. At 02:50 12/12/2007, Chris wrote: Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector clogging. The product itself may just be placebo. (Heck! Why didn't I think of that? NOT!) Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hallo Ken, Not sure but according to my wife's niece's boyfriend who uses the stuff you put 1/2 gallon kerosene, 1/4 gallon gasoline, cetane improver and the secret ingredients into wvo and then after 5 minutes you filter it 3 times, the last time being a water absorbtion filtering, and put it directly into your tank. This is with 20 gallons of wvo. Also, I am at my daughter's house and I may have the kerosene/gasoline ratios mixed up. Adam, the boyfriend, says he has been using it for about a month and everythng he told me he got straight from the website including how dangerous it is to use methanol and how expensive it is and how less expensive it is to use this stuff, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps some of the Germans on the list have an inkling of what he is talking about since it is claimed to have been used there in the immediate post WWII time. Sorry I can't be of more help. Happy Happy, Gustl -- - Hello all! Has anyone checked them out and find out what's in that secret formulation they've got and what it really does to the waste vegie oil? I'm just curious. best regards, Ken - Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl ...snip of superfluous stuff... ___ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.0/1180 - Release Date: 10/12/2007 14:51 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Gustl, Did you get a good laugh? I had an opportunity to check out the site only recently. I got an e-mail from a worm farmer in California who wanted to know about using the glycerine from BD production for composting. He had responded to an add in his local paper selling glycerine from BD production to speed up compost piles. They sent him quotes from one of my posts to the biofuel list regarding composting with glycerine. During an exchange of e-mails he told me he was looking at a way to make biodiesel a new, easier way. He told me about www.dieselsecret.com and asked what I thought. I think I convinced him to save his money. I've been working on a bullshit-O-meter that can respond to foul websites; meter, buzzer and even a foul smell-emitting option. I hope to have it available for the holiday shopping season. Grins, Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
I think this symbolizes a pretty powerful message from Ford. (the Model U concept car) Look at what we could produce if we truly were an environmentally responsible organization. But we won't. And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
keep the diesels, though. they work great on biodiesel and vegetable oil. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? I think this symbolizes a pretty powerful message from Ford. (the Model U concept car) Look at what we could produce if we truly were an environmentally responsible organization. But we won't. And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
A hydrogen ICE hybrid? Cripes!!! If these guys are going to go to all the time, trouble and effort, why not just get it right in the first place with existing technologies and infrastructure..perhaps a hybrid diesel/biodiesel that would get 90+ mpg rather than screwing with hydrogen ICE and still only getting 45? Imagine what could be done with something along the lines of a Lupo, already 78 mpg, combined with hybrid electric. But actually, I was thinking about all the fine print...a full volume of hype under the guise of green. Next time someone on this list comes over or back from Europe, would you bring a Lupo along as carry on baggage? Todd - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? Besides the fact that it is all plastic and look like it's CG? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 21:11 Subject: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A6E465919257.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
Darryl, You forgot one And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Excrement fred Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
Besides the fact that it is all plastic and look like it's CG? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 21:11 Subject: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A6E465919257.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
