RE: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
Ernest, it's pretty clear why Todd is missing the point. It's amusing and kinda' sad though. I remember a rant directed at me because I said that voting in federal elections was a waste of time and that change is only possible through local action. Now, he's at it again. I guess his solution is to single-handedly bully our elected officials into passing pro-biofuels legislation. Obviously the best course of action is to offend the people whose opinion or behavior you seek to change; just look at PETA's successful fur-spray-painting campaign. Oh and BTW, IMHO [net acronyms], you're right. The fact that we shuffled off the yoke of English imperialism means that we now have the freedom to delete the letter u from behavior. The language is ours now. -BRAH -Original Message- From: ernest breakfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:07 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) todd, it's clear you're missing the point; what's not clear is why. Appal Energy wrote: Last thing I need Ernest? It's some rocket scientist telling me what I have to say in order to placate/please him or her, i can't speak for Bryan, but i'm certainly not professing to be any Rocket Scientist.;-) (let's hope you don't have an issue with emoticons, too! next thing we know, it's going to be contractions!) Bryans message (as i took it) wasn't about the content or anyone telling you what you have to say; it was to point out that you're going to have a better chance of reaching people if you don't use such a caustic manner. much less the nettiquette police posting their message in acronym shorthand rather than the Queen's english. no police here, and i answer to no Queen... Don't care for the remarks? Don't read 'em. a ridiculous stance, of course, since no-one could know that they don't like something without reading it,... and demonstrates the point that if people don't like the form you're presenting in, they're not going to get the benefit of the message you're trying to share if they ignore the rest of what you have to share based on not liking the form of an earlier message of yours. It gets extremely wasteful and repetetive fighting the same disinformation battles over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and again, and again, and again, all the while listening to the same old false arguments by the same people who profess to be environmentally inclined and supposedly serving the best interests of others. unfortunately, telling one persons something doesn't always get the message across to them, (as is being evidenced here) and certainly doesn't educate everyone; there are new people that could coming into the discussion that could benefit from what's being shared if they didn't get turned off by having the information presented in a foul manner. nobody's asking you to shut up, rather, what's being suggested is in the hopes that you may be able to reach more people. of course, if you're only intent on spouting off about how stupid everyone else is, there's probably no hope. Horse manure. Try selfish, constipated, technocrats and ingrained bureaucrats more interested in creating roadblocks than in implementing solutions. turning off people who could potential become advocates because of poor form isn't going to help win any of those battles. Those who can't talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk some more. Those who can do. that, of course, doesn't excuse poor form on the part of those who profess to 'do'. here's hoping you have a better day! cheers! e [much snippage] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
Put it in the Queen's English Bryan. As you can see, I have no need for beating around the bush or putting candy and shellac coatings on anything. If it's frosting you want, you'll need to try and groom someone who won't hesitate to pump your skirt full of hot air and tell you want you want to hear. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) CTFO Todd, You're not likely to win converts with outbursts like that. In my experience, biofuels are an easy sell when you lay all of the facts out, but biodiesel isn't the solution to every pollution problem. In fact, the way that some states monitor and measure their emissions, BD may be more of a polluter than dinodiesel. I know that here in Texas (particularly near Houston), NOX is just as big an issue as SOX, so anything with a higher discharge is looked at suspiciously by the petroleum-sponsored lackeys in the government. Since their actions are only motivated by results achievable within the short election cycle, it's unlikely that our direct lobbying efforts will have an appreciable affect on policy. However if we can create a groundswell of popular support for biofuels, then the politicians' pavlovian response will be to take action in line with focus-group and voter opinion poll data. If we can calmly and rationally answer the questions of this environmentalist person, then (s)he will become another advocate and spokesperson for our cause. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator What the hell is your objectionist's problems with clean diesel? Perhaps he or she likes dirty diesel technologies better? Perhaps he or she would rather wait another 25 years for the oft pitched LNG infrastructure to not appear . again? Perhaps he or she would rather wait for 30 years until a hydrogen infrastructure is still not yet a reality? And what about the dirty and carbon negative technologies that will yield all that hydrogen? Perhaps he or she is genetically identical in the misguieded mental processes of Dan Becker of Club Sierra? PM traps are already being mandated for new diesels in the EU and the US and becoming more and more cost efficient per unit of production. In short order PM traps will be serviced as quickly and efficiently as a 30 minute oil change.Biodiesel further reduces particulate matter. No sulfur/SOx with biodiesel. The new green diesel without its sulfur is going to cause greater wear and tear on moving parts of engines and injection systems. Mandatory inclusion of 3-5% biodiesel eliminates that problem. Manufacture of distillate fuel oils is less energy intensive than manufacture of gasolines, erego greater energy savings in processing. It's already a given that diesels are more fuel efficient and yield greater torque, cubic inch for cubic inch in comparison to gasoline. As for the use of statiionary diesels such as generators, they are the best targets for clean technologies due to their constant loads - no vast pendulemic swings due to constant swings of fuel loading. This means that they can be dialed into their greatest efficiency level for emissions equipment using a minimum effort and maintenance program. Sounds as if your objectionist is more interested in doing nothing than doing what is immediately available. Wonder how many more people have to die before he/she gets his/her mind out of the proverbial back pocket? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator I was speaking with environmentalists about the arguments for and against the concept of clean diesel technologies, and one voiced strong objections to the concept. While I think that clean diesel has a strong place in my thinking, I wanted to focus a little bit on this idea of using biodiesel in a traditional diesel generator, such as we might use at a home or site, as a backup or primary generator. Does anyone here have any views on these generators... which have gotten better, which are reliable... Do any work particularly well with biofuels? Problems? What about if you use it as a backup generator if you have biofuels, are they a problem compared to dino-diesel in terms of sitting for a very long time and then being required to work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
Hey, Actually, the flies/honey analogy is a bit distorted. It's the bees that you'll attract with honey. Flies tend to love a good stink. More than once I have seen this NOx concern hold up someone's progress in getting behind Biodiesel, whether it was warranted or not. Yah. And a great number of people will pass on a perfectly good bushel of apples because the top apple has a bruise. Makes no sense (good sense) to forego a fuel that eliminates 90% of the carcinogens of its fossil fuel counterpart only because it might or might not increase NOx by two or three percent. Then, of course, there are also all the other benefits these bona fide brain children would also care to throw out in the process, inconsequential matters such as carbon monoxide reduction, reductions in particulate matter, carbon neutrality, all discounted due to a minutely fractional and not necessarily absolute increase in NOx. Who needs politicians to screw things up when commoners can't even recognize a no brainer when they see it? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:04:50 -0500, you wrote: CTFO Todd, You're not likely to win converts with outbursts like that. In my experience, biofuels are an easy sell when you lay all of the facts out, but biodiesel isn't the solution to every pollution problem. In fact, the way that some states monitor and measure their emissions, BD may be more of a polluter than dinodiesel. I know that here in Texas (particularly near Houston), NOX is just as big an issue as SOX, so anything with a higher discharge is looked at suspiciously by the petroleum-sponsored lackeys in the government. Since their actions are only motivated by results achievable within the short election cycle, it's unlikely that our direct lobbying efforts will have an appreciable affect on policy. However if we can create a groundswell of popular support for biofuels, then the politicians' pavlovian response will be to take action in line with focus-group and voter opinion poll data. More than once I have seen this NOx concern hold up someone's progress in getting behind Biodiesel, whether it was warranted or not. If we can calmly and rationally answer the questions of this environmentalist person, then (s)he will become another advocate and spokesperson for our cause. Yup. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator What the hell is your objectionist's problems with clean diesel? Perhaps he or she likes dirty diesel technologies better? Perhaps he or she would rather wait another 25 years for the oft pitched LNG infrastructure to not appear . again? Perhaps he or she would rather wait for 30 years until a hydrogen infrastructure is still not yet a reality? And what about the dirty and carbon negative technologies that will yield all that hydrogen? Perhaps he or she is genetically identical in the misguieded mental processes of Dan Becker of Club Sierra? PM traps are already being mandated for new diesels in the EU and the US and becoming more and more cost efficient per unit of production. In short order PM traps will be serviced as quickly and efficiently as a 30 minute oil change.Biodiesel further reduces particulate matter. No sulfur/SOx with biodiesel. The new green diesel without its sulfur is going to cause greater wear and tear on moving parts of engines and injection systems. Mandatory inclusion of 3-5% biodiesel eliminates that problem. Manufacture of distillate fuel oils is less energy intensive than manufacture of gasolines, erego greater energy savings in processing. It's already a given that diesels are more fuel efficient and yield greater torque, cubic inch for cubic inch in comparison to gasoline. As for the use of statiionary diesels such as generators, they are the best targets for clean technologies due to their constant loads - no vast pendulemic swings due to constant swings of fuel loading. This means that they can be dialed into their greatest efficiency level for emissions equipment using a minimum effort and maintenance program. Sounds as if your objectionist is more interested in doing nothing than doing what is immediately available. Wonder how many more people have to die before he/she gets his/her mind out of the proverbial back pocket? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
jeeze, todd, what's rubbed *your* fur backwards today? even more 'Appal'ling' than usual!LOL i don't know why you jumped on Bryan, he had a valid point; while being to the point is admirable, as truthful and/or valuable your comments may be, behavior like you've displayed is going to get you and your message discredited by some just based on your Poor Form alone. some will be willing to wade through foulness regardless of how sourly it's served up and benefit from what you share here, but more will if you'd present it with a little more taste. cheers! e Appal Energy wrote: Put it in the Queen's English Bryan. As you can see, I have no need for beating around the bush or putting candy and shellac coatings on anything. If it's frosting you want, you'll need to try and groom someone who won't hesitate to pump your skirt full of hot air and tell you want you want to hear. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) CTFO Todd, You're not likely to win converts with outbursts like that. In my experience, biofuels are an easy sell when you lay all of the facts out, but biodiesel isn't the solution to every pollution problem. In fact, the way that some states monitor and measure their emissions, BD may be more of a polluter than dinodiesel. I know that here in Texas (particularly near Houston), NOX is just as big an issue as SOX, so anything with a higher discharge is looked at suspiciously by the petroleum-sponsored lackeys in the government. Since their actions are only motivated by results achievable within the short election cycle, it's unlikely that our direct lobbying efforts will have an appreciable affect on policy. However if we can create a groundswell of popular support for biofuels, then the politicians' pavlovian response will be to take action in line with focus-group and voter opinion poll data. If we can calmly and rationally answer the questions of this environmentalist person, then (s)he will become another advocate and spokesperson for our cause. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator What the hell is your objectionist's problems with clean diesel? Perhaps he or she likes dirty diesel technologies better? Perhaps he or she would rather wait another 25 years for the oft pitched LNG infrastructure to not appear . again? Perhaps he or she would rather wait for 30 years until a hydrogen infrastructure is still not yet a reality? And what about the dirty and carbon negative technologies that will yield all that hydrogen? Perhaps he or she is genetically identical in the misguieded mental processes of Dan Becker of Club Sierra? PM traps are already being mandated for new diesels in the EU and the US and becoming more and more cost efficient per unit of production. In short order PM traps will be serviced as quickly and efficiently as a 30 minute oil change.Biodiesel further reduces particulate matter. No sulfur/SOx with biodiesel. The new green diesel without its sulfur is going to cause greater wear and tear on moving parts of engines and injection systems. Mandatory inclusion of 3-5% biodiesel eliminates that problem. Manufacture of distillate fuel oils is less energy intensive than manufacture of gasolines, erego greater energy savings in processing. It's already a given that diesels are more fuel efficient and yield greater torque, cubic inch for cubic inch in comparison to gasoline. As for the use of statiionary diesels such as generators, they are the best targets for clean technologies due to their constant loads - no vast pendulemic swings due to constant swings of fuel loading. This means that they can be dialed into their greatest efficiency level for emissions equipment using a minimum effort and maintenance program. Sounds as if your objectionist is more interested in doing nothing than doing what is immediately available. Wonder how many more people have to die before he/she gets his/her mind out of the proverbial back pocket? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator I was speaking with environmentalists about the arguments for and against the concept of clean diesel technologies, and one voiced strong objections to the concept. While I think that clean diesel has a strong place in my thinking
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
Last thing I need Ernest? It's some rocket scientist telling me what I have to say in order to placate/please him or her, much less the nettiquette police posting their message in acronym shorthand rather than the Queen's english. Don't care for the remarks? Don't read 'em. It gets extremely wasteful and repetetive fighting the same disinformation battles over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and again, and again, and again, all the while listening to the same old false arguments by the same people who profess to be environmentally inclined and supposedly serving the best interests of others. Horse manure. Try selfish, constipated, technocrats and ingrained bureaucrats more interested in creating roadblocks than in implementing solutions. Those who can't talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk some more. Those who can do. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: ernest breakfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) jeeze, todd, what's rubbed *your* fur backwards today? even more 'Appal'ling' than usual!LOL i don't know why you jumped on Bryan, he had a valid point; while being to the point is admirable, as truthful and/or valuable your comments may be, behavior like you've displayed is going to get you and your message discredited by some just based on your Poor Form alone. some will be willing to wade through foulness regardless of how sourly it's served up and benefit from what you share here, but more will if you'd present it with a little more taste. cheers! e Appal Energy wrote: Put it in the Queen's English Bryan. As you can see, I have no need for beating around the bush or putting candy and shellac coatings on anything. If it's frosting you want, you'll need to try and groom someone who won't hesitate to pump your skirt full of hot air and tell you want you want to hear. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) CTFO Todd, You're not likely to win converts with outbursts like that. In my experience, biofuels are an easy sell when you lay all of the facts out, but biodiesel isn't the solution to every pollution problem. In fact, the way that some states monitor and measure their emissions, BD may be more of a polluter than dinodiesel. I know that here in Texas (particularly near Houston), NOX is just as big an issue as SOX, so anything with a higher discharge is looked at suspiciously by the petroleum-sponsored lackeys in the government. Since their actions are only motivated by results achievable within the short election cycle, it's unlikely that our direct lobbying efforts will have an appreciable affect on policy. However if we can create a groundswell of popular support for biofuels, then the politicians' pavlovian response will be to take action in line with focus-group and voter opinion poll data. If we can calmly and rationally answer the questions of this environmentalist person, then (s)he will become another advocate and spokesperson for our cause. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator What the hell is your objectionist's problems with clean diesel? Perhaps he or she likes dirty diesel technologies better? Perhaps he or she would rather wait another 25 years for the oft pitched LNG infrastructure to not appear . again? Perhaps he or she would rather wait for 30 years until a hydrogen infrastructure is still not yet a reality? And what about the dirty and carbon negative technologies that will yield all that hydrogen? Perhaps he or she is genetically identical in the misguieded mental processes of Dan Becker of Club Sierra? PM traps are already being mandated for new diesels in the EU and the US and becoming more and more cost efficient per unit of production. In short order PM traps will be serviced as quickly and efficiently as a 30 minute oil change.Biodiesel further reduces particulate matter. No sulfur/SOx with biodiesel. The new green diesel without its sulfur is going to cause greater wear and tear on moving parts of engines and injection systems. Mandatory inclusion of 3-5% biodiesel eliminates that problem. Manufacture of distillate fuel oils is less energy intensive than manufacture of gasolines, erego greater energy savings in processing. It's
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
todd, it's clear you're missing the point; what's not clear is why. Appal Energy wrote: Last thing I need Ernest? It's some rocket scientist telling me what I have to say in order to placate/please him or her, i can't speak for Bryan, but i'm certainly not professing to be any Rocket Scientist.;-) (let's hope you don't have an issue with emoticons, too! next thing we know, it's going to be contractions!) Bryans message (as i took it) wasn't about the content or anyone telling you what you have to say; it was to point out that you're going to have a better chance of reaching people if you don't use such a caustic manner. much less the nettiquette police posting their message in acronym shorthand rather than the Queen's english. no police here, and i answer to no Queen... Don't care for the remarks? Don't read 'em. a ridiculous stance, of course, since no-one could know that they don't like something without reading it,... and demonstrates the point that if people don't like the form you're presenting in, they're not going to get the benefit of the message you're trying to share if they ignore the rest of what you have to share based on not liking the form of an earlier message of yours. It gets extremely wasteful and repetetive fighting the same disinformation battles over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and again, and again, and again, all the while listening to the same old false arguments by the same people who profess to be environmentally inclined and supposedly serving the best interests of others. unfortunately, telling one persons something doesn't always get the message across to them, (as is being evidenced here) and certainly doesn't educate everyone; there are new people that could coming into the discussion that could benefit from what's being shared if they didn't get turned off by having the information presented in a foul manner. nobody's asking you to shut up, rather, what's being suggested is in the hopes that you may be able to reach more people. of course, if you're only intent on spouting off about how stupid everyone else is, there's probably no hope. Horse manure. Try selfish, constipated, technocrats and ingrained bureaucrats more interested in creating roadblocks than in implementing solutions. turning off people who could potential become advocates because of poor form isn't going to help win any of those battles. Those who can't talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk some more. Those who can do. that, of course, doesn't excuse poor form on the part of those who profess to 'do'. here's hoping you have a better day! cheers! e [much snippage] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
No Ernest, There is no point missed. It's perfectly clear from the subject line. It's perfectly clear from your text. It was perfectly clear from Bryan's. You believe that exasperation with disinformation and the ongoing efforts of others to spread it shouldn't be expressed in an exasperated manner. Instead, everything is supposed to spoken in calm, low voice, with not the first shred of irritation towards ignorance and stupidity, especially when those are chosen traits and not of a genetic origin. Candy and powder coat it. Hold their hands and walk them through it. Nursemade them. Do their homework for them. Grind it up and feed it to them as Pablam. And if one doesn't jump through their little hoops and waste sufficient time playing primish games, then they have every right to take offense? Sod 'em. On the other hand, it's perfectly obvious that you miss my point. (See above and last two posts on the matter.) And if you still can't discern it, not to worry. I'm rather consistant and it's bound to pop up again. Sooner or later you'll either catch it or begin to understand it firsthand. In the meantime, I'll let you waste a perfectly good pound of honey trying to catch flys. If for some ungodly reason I ever have need of doing the same, me thinks I'll retrieve the dead possum from the middle of the road and strategically relocate it long before enlisting any other means. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: ernest breakfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator) todd, it's clear you're missing the point; what's not clear is why. Appal Energy wrote: Last thing I need Ernest? It's some rocket scientist telling me what I have to say in order to placate/please him or her, i can't speak for Bryan, but i'm certainly not professing to be any Rocket Scientist.;-) (let's hope you don't have an issue with emoticons, too! next thing we know, it's going to be contractions!) Bryans message (as i took it) wasn't about the content or anyone telling you what you have to say; it was to point out that you're going to have a better chance of reaching people if you don't use such a caustic manner. much less the nettiquette police posting their message in acronym shorthand rather than the Queen's english. no police here, and i answer to no Queen... Don't care for the remarks? Don't read 'em. a ridiculous stance, of course, since no-one could know that they don't like something without reading it,... and demonstrates the point that if people don't like the form you're presenting in, they're not going to get the benefit of the message you're trying to share if they ignore the rest of what you have to share based on not liking the form of an earlier message of yours. It gets extremely wasteful and repetetive fighting the same disinformation battles over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and again, and again, and again, all the while listening to the same old false arguments by the same people who profess to be environmentally inclined and supposedly serving the best interests of others. unfortunately, telling one persons something doesn't always get the message across to them, (as is being evidenced here) and certainly doesn't educate everyone; there are new people that could coming into the discussion that could benefit from what's being shared if they didn't get turned off by having the information presented in a foul manner. nobody's asking you to shut up, rather, what's being suggested is in the hopes that you may be able to reach more people. of course, if you're only intent on spouting off about how stupid everyone else is, there's probably no hope. Horse manure. Try selfish, constipated, technocrats and ingrained bureaucrats more interested in creating roadblocks than in implementing solutions. turning off people who could potential become advocates because of poor form isn't going to help win any of those battles. Those who can't talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk some more. Those who can do. that, of course, doesn't excuse poor form on the part of those who profess to 'do'. here's hoping you have a better day! cheers! e [much snippage] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http
Re: More flies with honey than vinegar (Was: RE: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator)
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:04:50 -0500, you wrote: CTFO Todd, You're not likely to win converts with outbursts like that. In my experience, biofuels are an easy sell when you lay all of the facts out, but biodiesel isn't the solution to every pollution problem. In fact, the way that some states monitor and measure their emissions, BD may be more of a polluter than dinodiesel. I know that here in Texas (particularly near Houston), NOX is just as big an issue as SOX, so anything with a higher discharge is looked at suspiciously by the petroleum-sponsored lackeys in the government. Since their actions are only motivated by results achievable within the short election cycle, it's unlikely that our direct lobbying efforts will have an appreciable affect on policy. However if we can create a groundswell of popular support for biofuels, then the politicians' pavlovian response will be to take action in line with focus-group and voter opinion poll data. More than once I have seen this NOx concern hold up someone's progress in getting behind Biodiesel, whether it was warranted or not. If we can calmly and rationally answer the questions of this environmentalist person, then (s)he will become another advocate and spokesperson for our cause. Yup. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator What the hell is your objectionist's problems with clean diesel? Perhaps he or she likes dirty diesel technologies better? Perhaps he or she would rather wait another 25 years for the oft pitched LNG infrastructure to not appear . again? Perhaps he or she would rather wait for 30 years until a hydrogen infrastructure is still not yet a reality? And what about the dirty and carbon negative technologies that will yield all that hydrogen? Perhaps he or she is genetically identical in the misguieded mental processes of Dan Becker of Club Sierra? PM traps are already being mandated for new diesels in the EU and the US and becoming more and more cost efficient per unit of production. In short order PM traps will be serviced as quickly and efficiently as a 30 minute oil change.Biodiesel further reduces particulate matter. No sulfur/SOx with biodiesel. The new green diesel without its sulfur is going to cause greater wear and tear on moving parts of engines and injection systems. Mandatory inclusion of 3-5% biodiesel eliminates that problem. Manufacture of distillate fuel oils is less energy intensive than manufacture of gasolines, erego greater energy savings in processing. It's already a given that diesels are more fuel efficient and yield greater torque, cubic inch for cubic inch in comparison to gasoline. As for the use of statiionary diesels such as generators, they are the best targets for clean technologies due to their constant loads - no vast pendulemic swings due to constant swings of fuel loading. This means that they can be dialed into their greatest efficiency level for emissions equipment using a minimum effort and maintenance program. Sounds as if your objectionist is more interested in doing nothing than doing what is immediately available. Wonder how many more people have to die before he/she gets his/her mind out of the proverbial back pocket? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: [biofuel] using biodiesel in a diesel generator I was speaking with environmentalists about the arguments for and against the concept of clean diesel technologies, and one voiced strong objections to the concept. While I think that clean diesel has a strong place in my thinking, I wanted to focus a little bit on this idea of using biodiesel in a traditional diesel generator, such as we might use at a home or site, as a backup or primary generator. Does anyone here have any views on these generators... which have gotten better, which are reliable... Do any work particularly well with biofuels? Problems? What about if you use it as a backup generator if you have biofuels, are they a problem compared to dino-diesel in terms of sitting for a very long time and then being required to work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
