[Biofuel] Turbonator?
http://www.turbonator.com/WhatIsIt.html Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: take down my articles from journeytoforever.org was Re: [biofuel] Re: Love Those
[Message edited to change title from Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 2306] At 12:35 PM 8/26/2004, you wrote: However,in the meantime, take down my material from journeytoforever, specifically the article about the appleseed processor, and the bubblewashing article I wrote. You no longer have my permission to continue to publish this material at your website. When mom and dad disagree and get a divorce the children always suffer... :) Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
There is a Daily Digest option, a single email containing all that day's messages. But Daily Digests are not a good way of doing it, they only look like a good way at first, but they make the information less accessible, not more.. If want to choose this option anyway, how do I go about it since I am already subscribed? I don't want to subscribe twice. Do I have/need a password? Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate Ice Houses, canning, things like that, but, down were you live, it wasn't until the 1800's that they had a reliable way of preserving fresh food - it was an ammonia based refrigerator. I have, but if possible I would like to build a natural system that does not require energy. They had to store food here before electricity, all I need to find out is how. Bright Blessings, Kim I was going to say, I bet they milked the cow everyday, made cheese, fed the leftover to other animals and collected the eggs ASAP to eat. ;) I have been considering the same thing as we decided our idea of a walk in cooler was too much energy to use, cool as it would be to have one at my house. We have a bit better climate (at least not in the summer) here in VA, so I have enjoyed the thread. Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Trees and power companies
Generator is primary. I do have wind and sun, but I do get lots of cloudy days and when it is the hottest, my wind dies. Solar panels are too expensive for me. We have no hydro possibilities. Solar panels are coming down in price, and you can always start small and add as you can afford. Have you figured the cost to run the generator? It would seem to me the cost would be much greater than grid power, though I don't know as I have never considered the possibility. What about a propane generator? Or can you get the fuel needed to power the generator delivered to your home anyway? Can you set up all your loads so they will run only when a generator (or other source) is running, or will you require local energy storage? If so, batteries are the most practical option (IMNSHO), though not perfect by any means. Most likely a non-trivial investment (batteries, inverter, charger, etc). Still with a battery system, you could save excess generated power for later use when the wind or sun goes away. I have heard wind power is the cheapest to generate if you have sufficient wind (we don't). Except for my electric fence charger, I can get by with only having power when the generator is running. I had planned on having the electric as just back up to my fences before I went off grid, but right now, the electric fence is my primary means of keeping my animals where they belong. We too have electric fencing and depending on what kind of animals you have, a solar fence charger should be adequate. However we have found if you intend to rely on it, you need back up solar chargers and even backups for your back ups! (A bad storm once took out 3 out of five chargers, we had two extra, but still were short the thirdwe were on a rare vacation and had to go to a good bit of trouble to get the neighbor who was watching the animals money to go purchase the third.) Other lists may also be helpful to you. Homeenergysolutions, alternate energy, renewable-energy come to mind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you located in TX? Solar seems to be extremely popular in parts of TX, and very PC down there. This is something we have been working on, all along. However, I greatly dislike gas stoves, which would cut our electric but raise our propane bill. I do a great deal of slow cooking on low temperatures, something gas does not do well. We are hoping to get some methane production going to help off set the electric usage, such as on demand hot water to back up the solar. Solar cooking is best at slow cooking, and very cheap to get started doing. Even though you say you have many cloudy days, once you get in the habit of it, you may find there is more sun than you think. If you built enough (or a big enough) solar cookers, perhaps you could do a good deal of your cooking at once and then just reheat it on cloudy or later days. Here is a link to a very cheap and huge solar cooker, it worked as you can see. Using and old freezer would save you the insulation step. http://www.stevenharris.net/solarcooking/Web/albumindex1.html Actually I prefer gas cooking, but as with any of them, your oven thermostat needs to be accurate. (If not measure and adjust manually.) While a crockpot is handy, I could get along with out it and use a gas stove/oven instead. Do you use microwaves? If so I think that you could certainly solar cook on sunny days and then microwave on cloudy days with your generator to power it. (Though I would at least have a propane stove as a backup if I were going to cut grid connection.) Between the two I cannot imagine choosing a noisy generator over a small quiet flame on the back burner while I was slow cooking. I may have to loose some of my conveniences, such as my on demand boiling water in my kitchen. There is a limit to how many conveniences I can loose and still get my work done, as it is only me working the place and doing the chores. This will be the deciding factor I think. For me I cannot get along with out several freezers to store food we produce (guess what, canned meat all sort of taste and textures the same- like tunanot going to do that everyday!)So living on our own generated power is much more expensive than we can afford compared to grid power, so far. Perhaps I missed the beginning of this thread, but this is not mostly in reaction to a power right of way clearing the lines of trees? As one poster wrote, you may want to check, just because you turn off your power,you may not get them off your land. the right of way may still be theirs whether or not you are using it to get power. And they may still choose to keep it clear... a possibility from their perspective is that they need to keep it accessible so the next person to buy your land will have ready access to power, especially if they have already invested in poles and things... I think they take a very long view of that investment
Re: [Biofuel] On demand boiling water?
I would not give up the on-demand boiling water unit. Perhaps put some additional insulation around the housing to retain heat when power is off. Ours definitely reduces our electrical consumption relative to an electric kettle (which is in turn better than a conventional kettle on a burner element), and it is a significant time-saver. To me, this exercise is not about giving up things that contribute to quality of life. I am curious about this appliance. I use propane to cook with (not an electric burner), but for heating water, I had read once that using a microwave was cheaper and more energy efficient- as long as the amount you needed was a cup or two. I would love a definite answer on the best way to (reasonably quickly- not solar) boil water. My son loves eating mac n cheese, the choices are stove top or microwave, for about 3-4 c. of water. It takes 8-9 minutes in my microwavecan't remember how much on the stove top. A convenience factor for a microwave is that it turns itself off at the end. Less chance of getting distracted and burning the noodles...it has happened more than once :( I also have a Polaris house water heater, which is extremely efficient. I have debated if it is better to use the hot tap water, energy wise, but for eating I know that it is healthier to use cold tap water, as the heated water sitting in the unit is more likely to dissolve metals and chemicals from the pipes, etc than cold water. Though I do not know if it is enough to matter. (My exDH is an environmental engineer with the state water board.) On a different note, I could investigate the Thermos method www.kurtsaxon.com/foods005.htm (Thanks Gig!) and get in the habit of just making it the night before...but you still have to boil a qt of water if I remember correctly or even two. I wonder how that compares to just cooking it at the time? Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] On demand boiling water? How can you measure propane use accurately?
If I get a watt-hour meter for Christmas, I could be persuaded to do additional measurements. I have a watt meter, so I will try your same test and tell you what I get with my microwave. I don't have the other appliances and I know of no good way to accurately measure propane with a small amount like that...anyone else know? We relented and turned on the furnace today. Another heating season is upon us. . We are in an unusual heat wave or something. It is has been really warm this week. The junk mail and burnable trash I had saved is getting unsightly. Hate to waste it at the landfill, and shredding ice cream cartons is just too much work! expect I will have to drain the seasonal solar water pre-heater very soon. In doesn't gain much in this overcast anyway. I have a one we haven't installed yet, so I know little of it's maintenance needs. I am sort of leaning towards using it on a little sustainably built off-grid bed and breakfast cottage on a remote location of our property. (I would pay to stay in such a place to try some of the features before investing in them.) Someday Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Re: OT: More on Measuring Appliance Energy Use
At 07:23 AM 4/2/2004, you wrote: Re: OT: More on Measuring Appliance Energy Use Hey,back in the day you could order anew car with amotor minder.All it was,was a vacuum gauge connected directly to the intake manifold.The idea was to keep the arrow in the green area of the gauge,which was high vacuum.It worked pretty well in changing your driving habits if you watched it.I see no reason why you couldn't hook up some chart recorder to a vacuum soruce to monotor the same thing. Rico murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was discussing my home appliances and how much energy they use. But, as many already know, it's difficult to measure some of them because they don't come with meters which show their exact kW usage at any given time. For high energy use devices, such as refrigerators and water heaters, this could be very important toward an owner understanding their energy use. Understanding could, in turn, lead to better usage of those devices, or replacing of perniciously inefficient ones. Inclusion of some sort of power meter on home appliances could add cost to those devices, but I think some appliance-buyers might find this cost to be worth their while, particularly if electricity prices get higher. Also, if such measuring meters are included, they could be better-integrated with computerized-house-of-the-future plans, such as Microsoft sometimes tries to cook up. If the appliances plug in you can buy just such a meter for $20-$50 at Radio Shack or a similar sort of store. I know of two models discussed on a solar living list I am on. I bought the Watt Meter, and use it frequently. Because of it, I did not use Christmas lights for decorative room lighting, and replaced the vaporizer (with it's lovely warm steam) with a cool humidifier that uses 1/15th worth of energy. You really only need to measure the same item a day or even hour to figure out how much energy it uses, though if you leave it, the thing sits there and collects the info for as long as you wish along with the time it has been in use. Watching how much energy a waffle iron uses makes sure you turn it on, use it and turn it off, not leave it plugged on in case someone wants another. Electric water heaters use LOTS of electricity. I use a extremely efficient propane to which I am adding a solar heater, as soon as I can get it mounted. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Testing overkill
At 06:34 AM 4/3/2004, you wrote: Thanks. I've literally received about six similar suggestions. I'm suggesting it should be built in to appliances (or maybe wall-sockets) for folks who are not handy enough, or don't feel like, trying to do it themselves. Actually, though I love collecting data on every aspect of everything, in this case, having used one, I think that would be overkill and too expensive for the most part. Realistically each outlet would need it's own watt meter and there is really no need to gather that information all the time. Mostly, unless the appliance becomes defective, the energy use is not going to change that much on a day to day to basis. If you are concerned, set up a schedule to check the appliances every so often. But, are you going to act on the information...meaning, unless you are going to change your use, (ie buy a new refrigerator because this one is becoming less efficient) or stop using some of these items knowing won't really do much for many consumers. Good example is SUV's , it has a built in meter on the gas pump that lets you know how much fuel the thing is using compared to a smaller car, still people buy them, and once bought continue to drive them. It would seem to be a natural for energy efficient new home construction. Do the monitoring at the circuit box level. Lets see, ammeters attached in a circuit box with the output wired to a computer to read the data. One of the Solar Decathalon homes had a smart wall that monitored the energy use. They won second or third place, but frankly I think compared to other ways of spending money on an energy efficient home, that would be a waste. It sounds and looks cool but it just isn't going to really do anything for you. It felt like a glitzy gimmick, rather than provide any real energy saving assistance. But a part of the idea would be to build such a device into a replacement wall socket. For example, sellers or buyers often have to replace sockets with GFI compliant devices. And horrors if such things became code required! You are turning an energy efficient sustainable house into yet another corporate driven product. Anyway, heaven forfend that we should all be able to have much more information so we can know precisely what electric power we are using through which device. Already easily obtainable, cheaply with current technology and a teensy bit of effort. :-) While we are at it, we should be able to see precisely what water usage we are doing through toilets and showers and sinks and such. We could have a faucet or toilet with meter designed-in. About $80 bucks a line currently, not an expense I would pay. And we should know the precise chemical composition of the water we're drinking or air we're breathing. all ideas for homebuilders to build-in, rather than throwing a house together and declaring to us what great value there is in it. And all additional expense that may not do anything to help you knowing all that. As I am fond of arguing to my pregnant friends, if you are not going to do/ or are able to do anything different (ie abortion or invasive surgery) why get an ultrasound? Knowing is not going to get you anything but more worry, unless there is nothing to worry about, in which case the test is unnecessary. If there is something you can, or would do to improve the air quality or water quality, you should consider checking it, otherwise what good is it to know? I can see many people not having much control over those things or unwilling to change unless there is a clear and imminent life threat, (isn't there a cell phone discussion along these lines going?) Or even traveling on roads, if you NEVER travel in a car or truck, or walk on a road, your chances of death or injury due to an accident will pretty much be zero, yet almost no one considers staying home to lessen the risk If I take the kids to the park, we might get killed, instead we will stay home today. I can see the studies now Soccer mom's children have a 5% higher rate of injury and death than children who do not go play soccer. More studies are needed to determine the causes and cures of this new finding. (Actually I do consider this and avoid activities on rainy days, of which was the cause of both auto accidents I have been involved in.) Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Biogas
At 12:33 AM 4/16/2004, you wrote: Message: 16 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:06:43 -0500 From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Biogas was Rejoining list with a question I thank you for the offer, but at this time I think it is too large a capacity. While I do have 2 cows, they are pastured at all times, so collecting their dung is not convenient. We do have rabbits, [At present 30, but this changes constantly,]humans [2] and pigs [5] that the dung is easy to collect. I am hoping to create a small system that I can use to cook with in the summer and to learn on. When I find out how well the system works with our lives, then I will be looking at a larger system that can generate electricity. If I can eliminate my AC bill in the summer, the system could pay for itself fairly quickly. Bright Blessings, Kim I would be interested in hearing about your research and progress. We are in a similar situation. Except we have chickens rather than rabbits and sheep/goats rather than pigs this year. We also have an unlimited supply of wood chips from the utility company clearing lines. I found this link to be interesting to get a diverse view of the choices. http://www.ees.adelaide.edu.au/pharris/biogas/PictGal.html Also wondering why you could not attach a vent/balloon/etc to a conventional septic tank to collect methane? I would think there is some there. Maybe that was mentioned a year or more ago on this list when I was considering it? Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: biodiesel class
At 05:19 AM 4/17/2004, you wrote: f you are interested in having some equipment built at this class, please contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] . If we schedule this class I will also be announcing it through the above lists. Thanks! mark Gee if you want to do one of those workshops in VA, we would volunteer! Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Preserving the Harvest
Drying is definitely the best in terms of energy used to store. If you make a solar dryer, (and have sunshine when you need it) that is also the best (FREE) way to get it preserved. I made a solar dryer out of a food tray holder (like in hospitals and cafeterias) I found at the recycle yard. It is aluminum on three sides and ws open in the front. We glued hinges and put a plexiglass door on the front. I leave a gap in the door to dissipate the condensation, by adjusting the Velcro strip I use to keep it closed. When the sun isn't shining and you have a large crop to dry, it works great with 2-3 100 watt bulbs (any light fixture that will fit under the last shelf on the bottom) Mine is about 6ft tall and has nine shelves. Oh, the shelves are wire shelves, also from recycle yard cut down to fit. Last fall I dried apples, it fit about 50 per batch. Since then I came across a bunch of bread racks, which look sort of similar and fold up. I am trying to find a way to turn them into solar dryers. Covering in plexiglass would be too costly. Today I am going to try canning some of the pastured poultry we haven't sold this week. It always seemed a huge energy output (90 minutes of processing) so I have never tried it, but I need to make room so I will give it a try. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: DC Biofuel class
My husband and I would like to come, got a couple rate? :) Your email came back undeliverable so I am posting to the list. Thanks, Caroline Graham Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Embodied energy
At 08:40 PM 12/12/2002, you wrote: This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience with the potential interest level. I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft., straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, Research , research, research... did I get my point across? Building a house is a BIG financial and lifestyle investment. Before you choose or discard any options try to find someone who has a working model of that component. Some research of straw bale that I ran across showed that within a year there was significant mold growth. I am sure this is climate related, yet certainly worth considering.I chose cellulose insulation, due to it's cost and the fact that it is recycled newspaper. I don't know whether this is why or not- but this winter (2nd in this house) we are overrun with mice living in it. Not that big a deal, (till you find the dead ones trapped in the file cabinet smelling up that whole room) but I never considered that. Also, wood is certainly a renewable resource- your common 2x4 can be harvested every 8-10 years on our woods. We are considering cob for our next building project. If you are building in a place with dirt-(not just sand). This may meet many of your goals. ( tip- I would purchase a tractor with a loader.) etc etc. I've run across a measure of environmental impact called embodied energy, which tries to include not only the energy required to manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), This could also be interpreted as just plain expense, which comes up for everyone as they try to make a sustainable housing project a reality. The more unusual or out of the ordinary, unless very simple, will be more expensive in labor. This is a big deal IMO, construction workers are seldom known for their intellectual abilities. I chose a manufactured straight truss- only so their would be no on site labor cost and associated possible problems. I found a wonderfully easy to install reflective metal roof which my workers could install rather than getting a roofer. On the other hand, the insulation factory is 15 miles away, yet I had to purchase it from a retailer 30 miles away, in order to get use of the blower- wasteful, yet simpler and less expensive. as well as the lifetime of the end result. Once again this is an expense issue. I chose concrete blocks, stone or brick, because of so many old building I saw, still useable or reclaimable when clad in this material. As my aunt used to say- You can't build a 1990's house at 1960's labor prices. the labor that went into the brick on a colonial house has paid for itself, many times over. The clapboard has only been preserved with many coats of paint over the years. For this however, I think you must use your own common sense and think it out. What can you see currently that has lasted . This does give new stuff a serious disadvantage, but that is just the way it is. We chose an in floor radiant heat system. I have had lots of problems with the pump needing to be replaced EVERY year after being dormant for the summer. Perhaps it is a bad pump, yet this could become way more expensive and bothersome than a traditional tried and true heating system would have been. Unfortunately, this index (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info was less significant or not yet emphasized. Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs vs comp shingle Don't know the embodied energy rating, but a reflective roof will significantly reduce cooling needs. One fellow at the DOE said that if CA had all white or reflective roofs they would have 100 less smog days per year. (This was heard during a conference I don't have a written reference, wish I did.) He said most folks don't like the look- thus we all pay a higher cost. :( -- concrete slab floor vs wooden joists -- solid timber beams vs engineered wood products, etc. ? What there is I could find, though I don't have it handy on this computer. If no one else answers on that, email me again after Christmas. I would be glad to share what I have. I took a year or two to study all these things before building this house. I can offer you my opinion and some experts to contact. The best thing is to find an example and go feel it. Ask about any unexpected bugs. (Our concrete floor was poured a bit too late in the fall- full of
[biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodied energy)
Here is a link for the exact roofing material I used. I chose an aluminum colored roof for the (hopefully) enhanced reflective abilities (and the paint would never peel. :) After placing my order (to be trucked in from another state) a local metal roofing supplier started producing an almost identical product. It was a bit more expensive per sqft, but it would have not wasted energy/money being trucked in and would have been more in keeping with my sustainable goals. This uses no clips to install it, thus it is simple enough for almost any construction crew- sort of like putting on vinyl siding. Don't forget your Southern overhang, to block summer sun while allowing winter sun. http://www.unaclad.com/products/sysview.asp?ID=31 In my search tonight I ran across this link it seems to be full of supplier possibilities. http://www.zebroski.com/16-LINKS-CONSTRUCTION.htm#Section%207 While I am pleased thus far with the performance of my radiant floors, I am not sure I would get it again, especially in concrete. I would prefer to have more access to the pipe . While building my house I met a man looking for someone to repair his system- 2/3's was non functional (leaky). His also was encased in concrete with a marble tile covering. No one (plumber-HVAC) wanted to mess with it. I felt bad for him, he seemed like a nice little old man, but my plumber wouldn't go either. He only helped with mine because he was my friend. Also I am wondering about the efficiency of the system due to the way a concrete floor gets poured in reality. Supposedly the concrete wire (which the pipe is attached to) gets pulled up to the middle of the floor as the concrete is being poured. As I watched however, I would say that speed certainly takes a priority, and would be surprised if in many places the wire is not sitting at the bottom of the pad. Also makes me wonder what happened to my under the floor foam insulation as it has been heated by this wire/pex every winter. I had imagined walking on this heated floor would be like a big sun warmed rock. Uh, not so. The heat only goes out in strips- maybe 8 wide. Beside this warm strip, the floor is stone cold. :) Sort of odd to walk on w/o shoes , you find your kids walking on the little 8paths. The room temperature is fine though. In addition to the solar option, an outdoor wood stove can also be used as an option in suppling the heat for the pipes. A feature I added was to put floor drains in almost every room. My plumber complained, and talked me out of a few (I should have held my ground) but I love them. It is so much easier than mopping up dirty water- and the water goes directly to the drain tile, not the septic system. (A weird code thing that happened to work out best for me.) Plus kids love to have a water gun fight inside to clean the floors ;) Here is a link on a Net Zero housing experiment http://web.mit.edu/energylab/www/se/proceedings/Kadam2001.pdf Here is a link to Building Science's site. http://www.buildingscience.com/topten/default.htm I went to one of his lectures and ordered his mixed climate book- some call him the authority on moisture proofing buildings. I got my money's worth, if nothing else the book will wow your building inspectors, as you try to get some non mainstream stuff approved. Along those lines, see if you can get you local inspector to go with you to a straw bale demo. Mine was willing , though I decided against using it. I HATE drywall. (Joe from Building Science adores it's draft sealing qualities, however) It takes way too much labor, has too many steps- drywall, taping, sanding, painting. It was the worst part of the project and potentially the most expensive. ($23 a sheet- just labor, 2 years ago!) But I found almost no reasonable, fire rated approved substitutes. The best we came up with was using metal roofing material for ceilings. We like a techy look so we used plain galvanized. We limited it to the common areas, but have been really pleased. For most interior walls we used unfinished luon- difficult to match colors of wood, and holes are unrepairable, but I still like it better than painted drywall. Later we wished we had used white tile board- (dry erase board) in the children's rooms. This makes a great wall you can write and erase- tape won't hurt it either. Here is my last link, I thought his ideas inspiring. I read about this place in Mother Earth News at the dentist http://www.cmpbs.org/ Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
At 01:34 AM 12/15/2002, you wrote: I let my wife read this because I couldn't understand why anyone would get a floor so wet that it would even have an opportunity to drain, and she couldn't understand this either! I clean all the floors at home using a small vacuum cleaner to get rid of dust, and a steam cleaner I bought at Sears. We put nothing but fresh water in the steamer, and our floors clean beautifully with this machine. (We have laminate flooring and tile upstairs, with tile and carpet downstairs. No, I don't use the steamer on the carpet!) The slight skim of moisture on the floors when I'm done cleaning evaporates rather quickly. I used such a machine for my house in town. It was very nice, but I will explain the concepts of this house a bit better. First realize it is located on a farm-(perhaps more correctly an eventual homestead) in VA. Here we have copious amounts of red clay- being tracked in every door. There is no carpeting - this due to the 1 layer of dust/dirt I found under my carpet padding in my house in town, removing it after just five years of use. We tend toward allergies I strongly suspect that house full of dust mite breeding carpet was a major culprit. However, we also built a large house with room for more than one generation of family- like the Walton's. ;) We currently house 7, from 3-83. I couldn't see running a stream machine over all that floor (4500 sqft) - (200sqft is taken up by insulation ) I found dumping and refilling the thing to be enough work when I just used it on my small kitchen in town. The Elder rooms are designed similar to hospital or nursing home rooms. These have their drains located near the in room toilets- wonderful in the event of a toilet breakdown/repair. I won't explain further, but if you visit a nursing home, just notice the lack of carpeting and try to figure out why. ;) I usually just use water and a floor squeegee/ scrubber thing, pushing the water towards the drain. We have dark grey colored concrete and applied various finishes after it was dry-(once again I apparently really did a bad job on my concrete research, trusting the installer- grrr), but have found none that have worked well. Most are peeling off. Perhaps I will try plain wax, I just thought it would be too slippery. We have a heat recovery ventilation system that exchanges air and controls indoor humidity. This was on my list however, it was not required to move in so of course it hasn't been added yet. I had a system picked out, but my HVAC friend couldn't see how it differed significantly from a regular heat pump- except it wouldn't heat your house. After thinking about it I wondered that myself- is it just a heat pump with an expensive name? Joe from Building Science advocated them in his books. (I wonder what our electric bill is going to be. . . In our old house, an all electric home built in the 1970's, we used around 20 kW hours per day. The people at BC Hydro couldn't believe we used so little power, when they were boasting of power smart homes that used more than twice what we did. I thought our power consumption was outrageous. . . I guess perspective is everything!) I just got a Watt meter from Radio Shack. We have been going around measuring each appliance, for a day of use to see how much power each thing uses. Sky tubes were another ...to be added later, perk. I really need them in the middle of the house. Almost all glazing is located on the South side of the house- with a five foot overhang (four was minimum needed, larger to make a porch was too expensive.) . Rather than windows, to get the amount I needed I used sliding glass doors. This has been great, each bedroom has it's own outside access, could have it's own little courtyard/garden. One daughter has a dog door in hers, so her pet can come and go as he wants- limited to just her room inside. Last spring we housed baby lambs in a pen just outside one child's door to make it easy to feed them round the clock. All that inside -outside does track some dirt, but as the song said, Life in the country is kind a laid back... I just found an article about designing a homestead that mentions 'Grauhotz'- a farmhouse thing that housed people and the animals built in the 1700's. Wonder what this will inspire next? http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/1_2002.htm Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodied energy)
At 01:01 AM 12/15/2002, you wrote: Graham, Did you already built your new house? Leaking floor in concrete, I hope that you did not install copper pipes in it. It was a long time, around 30 years, since I heard anyone do this. The unfortunate old man did have copper I think, installed about 12 years ago he said. If the special plastic pipes for heated floors is against your goals, then you take a substantial risk, otherwise http://www.wirsbo.com/http://www.wirsbo.com/ and find the distributor in your area. I bought my system from Rohar- mainly because it was less expensive to get a Polaris water heater from them, most efficient I could find, than it was to purchase the individual components for the system locally and buy the Polaris in my state. Another of those philosophical compromises. Mostly I have been satisfied with them, except for a couple of things. One I had to argue a bit to get my pump replaced (it was within the warranty), and two when I suggested how a small design change on their part could have prevented the first pump breakdown (water from a loose pipe fitting leaked on the top housing) they argued that they had never had any problems before- it was the plumbers fault. Stupid, the change would have cost nothing in materials, just placing it above the pipes or beside rather than directly underneath a potentially leaky place- we cover ours with a plastic roof now just to be on the safe side. Lastly, in typical sales guy talk, he assured me our bills would be $500 a year, given the house specs I gave him. Last year they were closer to $800. We don't even use all the zones- storage area thermostat is disconnected, laundry and stored food need no additional heat. Plus we supplement with a wood stove in the common area. So that rarely comes on. I grew up with old fashioned radiators. These I loved- a warm spot in each room, a place to dry your towels, and the ability to turn on and off each one. I thought this would be a modern version. I think I should have redesigned some radiators using the pex pipe. That way they would have been accessable and improvable if uses changed- (storage areas, become living spaces- some rooms never used but heated anyway because on zone with another used room, etc. ) Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
At 02:22 PM 12/15/2002, you wrote: Linseed oil as concrete sealer: http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxind7.htmhttp://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxind7.htm prevents the breakdown of reinforcing steel. So an interesting idea would be to coat your rebar with oil before pouring your concrete. Then also coat the cured concrete on top to reduce water infiltration. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1302
1/2 Dura PEX -- $0.39 per foot in big rolls. They also have 7/8 for $0.64 per foot -- don't know which you want. I seem to remember the runs are laid out on 4 centers. Call your local plumbing supply store. I ended up getting a package deal only because it was cheaper to buy the Polaris (most energy efficient propane water heater at the time). The pex itself is relatively cheap. Any extra can be used for regular plumbing. Actually I am replacing all the copper now in the house with pex as soon as I can. Our water is naturally acidic and the copper is dissolving into the water supply. The actual installation of the pex is very simple. It seems to be strong enough to handle concrete made with pea gravel, so I shouldn't worry too much about it being fragile. The fittings however, (which should be out of the floor) may leak eventually and need attention of a plumber. I do have problems with some of mine in the fall, after a summer of disuse. I would consider an instant water heater for such a small building.- the kind that heat only 2 gallons at a time, but very quickly. Supposedly very efficient since you aren't paying for a 40 gallon tank of hot water to be sitting around. Haven't finished reading all the digests, but the cooling part would concern me. Having installed in-floor radiant, I must also pay for ducts for A/C. Probably installing 10 ft ceilings and ceiling fans has been the best thing for summer comfort. We have the super insulated, glazing on the south side, 4ft overhang, etc. I think I would prefer individual window units for AC in a larger construction- so everything isn't being cooled unless there is a need. Preheating the water with a solar system of some type would be the best, but I don't know if you could get a donation of the needed materials. The trend on this at the Solar Decathalon was a specially manufactured roof mounted vacuum tube. I am not sure that it is superior to a larger system constructed of black tubing, recycled hot water tanks, or some other homemade system. Good Luck Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] help searching archives
I was trying to find the thread/study on SUV's being less safe than cars, police depts. buying them etc. I get a page of results all too far back. I see no way to go to the next page of results. I tried putting 2003 in my search, but that didn't work either. How do I use it? Thanks, Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Thought provoking?
I do not know the author of this, so I do not even know if it is a true opinion or fiction. But it does sound plausible, I must admit I find it difficult to not find the everyday violence which is more common is non-western countries, somewhat horrifying. I taught a summer class last year for 10-12 year olds. One child, from India, when asked what she liked about living in the US the most, responded , I like the libraries and that the teachers don't beat the students here. Of course the other children wanted more details, they were all shocked to find out what normal school life was like where she came from. Perhaps people from other cultures do not want to be saved from the lifestyle they currently have, I don't know. Certainly the child I met from India thought it was much nicer, and less scary living in the US. Perhaps we should ask the children. Caroline Letter from an Iraqi-American Before anybody decides to go out and join more protests, maybe it would be fair to provide an alternate view. I, as you may have learned, am an Iraqi-American. Actually Assyrian-Iraqi-American. Most of my family was in Baghdad during the first Gulf War--some were in Kuwait. My aunt Margaret tells me that during that war, they would wait until night and go sit on the rooftops and cheer the bombing. The American attacks were so concise, she said that they would bet on which government or utilities building would be hit, and were more often than not, correct. Civilian targets were always accidental. Think about it: what military objective would be served by hitting a civilian hospital, when the opposing army is surrendering en masse(not fighting and getting injured)? For the last six months on al-Jazeera television, Iraqi defectors have been appearing on talk shows begging--literally, begging--the other Arab nations to support the US in this war, to finally free the Iraqi people. Without fail, their counterparts from other nations stated that they preferred Hussein to the USA. Here are some figures. Since taking power officially in 1978 (although he was the functional leader since 1971), Hussein has executed somewhere in the range of 3 million political prisoners. He launched chemical weapons against Assyrians and Kurds in the North. He drained the marshes in the south, which the Shi'ites need to survive, causing a famine-on-purpose in the style of what Stalin did to Ukraine in the 30s. Every day in Iraq, 2,500 children die from malnutrition and lack of medicine because Hussein has been kicking out UN (not US) inspectors for 11 years. Two thousand five hundred children die every day. So do not dare, for one instant, to protest this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. To do so is to spit in the face of the millions of people who yearn for freedom from his regime. Hussein is not Castro. Uday Hussein, his son, is the head of athletics in Iraq. He owns a football club. For years, whenever they wouldn't perform to expectations, he would bring them to his personal prison and torture them ruthlessly. He maintained a harem of hundreds of women whom he would rape, defile, and murder. The few hundred Iraqi civilians who may die in the bombing raids are a pittance compared to the millions Hussein has killed as well as the appalling number of children who die every day due to his arms program stubborn-ness. How many more can die so a bunch of addle-brained do-gooders can get on TV waving placards? It is hypocritical and worse irrational to oppose this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. They don't know the desires of the Iraqi people, or the apalling suffering of the Iraqi people. The only reason to protest the war would be because you are opposed to any and all war, opposed to sending US troops anywhere, ever. In which case kudos to you, I suppose, for returning to the turn-of-the-century style isolationism that indirectly lead to the horrific casualties of World War I and II. The world depends on superpowers to lend coercive power to international regimes. The best are those signs that say, No Iraqi Blood for Oil. How about, No More Iraqi Blood for French Interests, since the French opposed this war solely because they have hundreds of billions of dollars tied up with the Iraqi regime, money they will lose if Hussein is ousted because international regimes stipulate that a nation is not responsible for the debts of a deposed, illegitimate regime. The same goes for the Russians and Germans. The Russians have invested billions in Iraq's nuclear program. And to answer those who argue that the US is only engendering more hate among out European allies: Whose fault is that? Ours? Bush is an inept, almost moronic leader who angered many when he imposed a steel tariff, pulled out of the Kyoto protocol, and so forth. But in this case, the US is trying to remove an unpopular, ruthless, Stalin-esque dictator and free a nation of people who live every day in terror (see Samir al-Khalil's book Republic of Fear).
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1501
At 04:26 PM 4/7/2003, you wrote: but I read that oils mixed with lye makes soap basicly.If someone has some answers or recipes, it would be so valuable to me! Google soap making- Here is the beginning: The Soap Making Home Page ... The way the old timers used to make it... Soap Making Today: ... Soap Making From Ashes by someone who knows what they are talking about by Paul A. Norman. ... Description: Old-time soap making instructions and links to further resources. Category: Arts Crafts Soaps waltonfeed.com/old/soaphome.html - 14k - Apr 5, 2003 - Soapmaking: free soap recipes directions. Soap book author, Elaine White, shares soap making recipes directions: how to make soap. soap, soapmaking, making, recipes, Soapmaking ... Description: Free soap recipes and directions to make bar soap at home. Category: Arts Crafts Soaps members.aol.com/oelaineo/soapmaking.html - 7k - Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Biofuel] Better than bio diesel?
excerpt... Doing away with solar cells and batteries, their robot http://www.ias.uwe.ac.uk/Energy-Autonomy-New/New%20Scientist%20-%20EcoBot%20II.htmEcobot II has a stomach consisting of eight microbial fuel cells, or MFCs, that contain bacteria harvested from sewage sludge. The microbes break down the food into sugars, converting biochemical energy into electricity that powers the robot. With bacteria breaking the food down and a type of robotic respiration in which air provides oxygen to the fuel cells to create useful energy, the whole system mimics real digestion as closely as possible. Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Biofuel Bill in VA
Thought some here might be interested. Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? There are many recipes for how people make/use homemade soap for dishes. I would suggest you make a batch of concrete as the directions state to get an idea how the consistency is supposed to be at each stage and then experiment substituting with homemade soap -whatever recipe you decide to use. Perhaps you will need to adjust your soap recipe (or quantities needed) to end up with a similar outcome. I would love to hear of your results, email me privately if you don't mind when you experiment. Caroline Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Bill in VA
Hello Caroline, Thanks for the post, but I have to admit to being completely in the dark as to what was actually done. Maybe you can help. Is there a section that you can point me to that summarizes what they actually voted against? Or was it simply a matter of voting against voting for now while they await further study? AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA Not sure that they voted against anything, looks to me that the house voted for the bill, which in summary was to propose a study of biodiesel in VA with the intent of possibly fulfilling federal mandates to reduce sulfur in diesel and consider promoting the use and production of biodiesel WHEREAS, the federal government is requiring a reduction in sulfur for most diesel fuels beginning in 2006, which raises concerns whether fuel lubricity and biodiesel in low blends of fuels can be a lubricity option for future diesel fuels; now, therefore, be it and The Secretary of Agriculture and Forestry shall pay particular attention to the capability and desirability of generating a minimum demand of 20 million gallons annually in the Commonwealth. The study should include analysis of the economic impact its use would have on the state, the agricultural community, petroleum marketing and distribution, and biodiesel consumers, as well as the supply of biodiesel fuel and demand for biodiesel fuel in the Commonwealth. The Secretary shall consider the operational impact of biodiesel fuel on (i) engines and engine warranties; (ii) fuel economy; (iii) standards and testing methods of biodiesel fuel; (iv) the energy expended to produce such fuels; (v) the environmental benefits and impacts on air quality in nonattainment areas of the Commonwealth; (vi) the marketing of biodiesel fuel by the agricultural and industrial communities; (vii) the potential for public use within the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions; (viii) its feasibility in cold flow conditions, (ix) tax incentives or credits to promote the use of biodiesel fuel, (x) storage, blending, transportation, and distribution; and (xi) the current supply and potential for biodiesel plants to be located within the Commonwealth. The Secretary shall seek input from interest groups possibly impacted by increased biodiesel fuel use in the Commonwealth, including but not limited to petroleum suppliers, distributors, and transporters; diesel users, such as trucking, rail, bus and fleet vehicles businesses; biodiesel advocacy groups; and agricultural interest groups. The Secretary shall also consider similar studies and reports undertaken or completed in other states. But I wonder about a few of the statements in the bill, perhaps a few of you with more experience could offer suggestions or correct some misinformation on the part of those trying to promote it. WHEREAS, [ biosolids biodiesel ] fuel can be blended with regular diesel fuel for use in internal combustion engines; and Is it not chemically the same thing as fossil diesel and can thus be used straight ? WHEREAS, experienced knowledge and research regarding biodiesel fuel is still relatively limited in the nation and the Commonwealth and it is still uncertain whether biodiesel fuel may create operational challenges and problems for users of diesel-powered engines; and Perhaps there are some here with experienced knowledge that could educate in this endeavor? I have found that other state's models carry a good deal of weight in new endeavors in state legislature. I am not sure what-why it means that it has been referred to the committee on rules. Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
From a consignment store perspective, this looks like a great new money making venture... importing Japan's used cars! Hmm how much to ship one or those things? Also seriously though, what about other parts that may need to be replaced- doors, glass, tires etc. Here of course we use used parts for almost everything. Caroline [* In Japan a car like this one -- more than ten years old -- has zero market value, despite its low mileage. I will have to pay money to junk it. Unlike the USA, there are few junkyards where people go to get parts, and there is not much of a used parts market. This car will probably be crushed into a metal, glass and rubber brick and stacked somewhere with a bunch of similar cars. The upside of this is that people like me who don't mind old cars can get them for free or for a pittance.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ P [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel - how?
At 04:04 AM 7/3/2002 +0100, you wrote: Not to sound too nieve or anything, but I've only just joined this group. My questions are thus: How is biodiesel made? is it used the same as dinodiesel? does it have any disadvantages? and does it give the same power output? You may have already answered all these before, however if anyone could humor me for just a minute I would be very thankfull. From a dreadfully newbie viewpoint I found Christian's web site- which is listed under the message title PHOTOS of my BD or similar to be the best step by step explanation. Unfortunately I cleaned up my mail program and the message got deleted. Search the list/archives or... Christian could you provide another link to your site? Also go to Journey to Forever- listed under all of Keith's messages, he has lots of good stuff there, not just about biofuel. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
At 05:42 PM 7/4/2002 +, you wrote: Thinking back, I recall that for quite awhile we were trying something we'd read about to help keep the goats warm in Winter. The idea was to just keep putting down fresh bedding, not removing the old or the manure. This would compost and the heat would be a great help for the animals, then in Spring you haul it all out. Sounded great to us, we always felt sorry for the animals in Winter, most of our chickens lost their combs and wattles to freezing, the barn cats usually had shortened ears, etc. You'd think that would be the perfect setup, really for good composting -- plenty of manure, plenty of urine to for both moisture and more nitrogen, and the hay for bedding. We were quite disappointed, however, as there was never any noticable composting going on until late Spring. Otherwise it seemed pretty much frozen solid. Never saw any steam rising from it, never felt warm at all, and I spent plenty of time on my knees on it, milking the goats twice a day. That sounds like Joel Salatin's deep bedding idea in his pastured poultry and beef books. We saw his farm, he puts corn in the bedding layers to be aerated by rooting pigs in the spring. ( I imagine goats would just try to eat the corn as you put it down.) It ends up being four feet tall by spring The chicken hoop house he had was very warm and dry- they sprayed it down to dampen the dust. But it also had a plastic greenhouse- like exterior. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Personal matter/opinion
This is short notice for such a big leap isn't it? However, you must be more specific. I live in the middle of VA. Cost of living varies greatly depending on the county, etc. I am figuring you will be working in a city, perhaps Northern VA? If you live in the city it will cost more in rent but less in gas. Many people here commute from rural areas. I doubt you can function without a car altogether. Food for one person is not too expensive if you cook your own mostly. Do you want an apartment, house or just a room in someone's house? (Nearby, maybe we could help you out. ) I rent out three houses to families for $650-$1175 a month (depending on size). A room with shared housing privileges(kitchen, yard for pets, etc) goes about $350. There are cheaper things but it takes some searching. E-mail me if you would like to ask more questions. Caroline Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:58 PM 8/6/2002 -0300, you wrote: Hi all. I honestly apologize in advance for using this group for a personal question, but I consider all members as friends, and am in desperate need of advice. (Sorry Keith...hope you understand) I«ve received a job proposal for a firm in Virginia, USA, which I must answer by tomorrow, and would like to know out of American members« experience how much the cost of living would roughly be there (per month... rent, food, some leisure, savings) to know if the proposal is reasonable or not. I«m 24 years old and single. Thanks to all in advance for your help. Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Making it ourselves Was: Polyvinyl Alcohol (PVA) Membranes
At 05:59 AM 9/3/2002 +, you wrote: That's not really what I meant. I meant that if you can manufacture a product and all its components in-house you are much more likely to have a lower price than competitors that out-source their components. In-house doesn't mean within the borders of this country or that country, in simply means at the same factory. From a purely business standpoint this is not always the case. Often the cost of the equipment and manpower required to produce certain parts could be more cheaply produced if the equipment were being used on a full time basis, this may exceed the amounts you need. A similar thing I have run across recently,... A large farm was cut into 10 acre farmettes. It doesn't make financial sense to purchase hay making equipment to hay just 10 acres. The large farmer next door sells these farmers the hay that they need for the winter. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: peanut oil
At 07:34 PM 9/3/2002 -0700, you wrote: To get off my high horse a bit, why would peanuts (or any other crop, for that matter) EVER become more expensive to grow than what they are worth? Does this happen because of the high costs of water, pesticides, herbicides, plow blades, combines, fuel? If so, maybe it's just that a particular crop is being grown in the wrong location, or in the wrong way, or in too-large fields, or perhaps an overly-sensitive cultivar is being raised.. what is it? I really want to know.-K I wondered about this myself. I live in VA and wanted to get some- (like 100-500lbs) of peanuts to have on hand to make my own peanut butter, I thought it would (should) be less expensive than buying name brand stuff at the store. Instead I have found it to be SO MUCH MORE- like two to three times the price. It is amazing that it is cheaper to buy peanuts already processed into peanut butter -(shipped in from what country?) than to buy the plain peanuts grown right here in VA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...
At 07:07 PM 9/20/2002 -0400, you wrote: Quite an old concept, cotton insulation is made of recycled leftovers from blue-jean manufacturing (to be fair, 30 percent of fiberglass material is recycled glass). It has no formaldehyde or itchy fibers and is treated with borax to make it fire- and insect-proof. Ok I want to be on the sustainable housing list, any body know a good one? I was wondering about something very similar to this concept just this morning. Is this shredded blue jeans? Can any one think of a way to do this yourself with old cotton clothes? I have access to 100's of pounds of old clothes that get tossed in the landfill every week. Enough 100% cotton stuff could be pulled to create plenty of insulation. We need to purchase $1500 more cellulose for our attic. Seems a shame to be throwing out a $1500 opportunity. Any ideas? There is a similar insulation available from wool. ( Wool is worth less than the cost of removing it from the sheep currently.) Actually I have enough other buildings that needs insulation to justify purchasing equipment to make it if I could figure out how. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and Stuff in general
At 12:10 AM 9/24/2002 +, you wrote: If we want to make something better, we have to look for a material or mixing with a material that give a significant reduction of the emission factor for the wall (like aluminium). Maybe straw with aluminium mixed in the glue (clay traditionally). I think that research should be a little more advanced than only attempt with non- traditional materials. I am going to ignore the argument portion of this exchange. According to the research I could find on reflective insulation, which I will admit, was a couple of years ago, Reflective insulation is only effective as long as it is still shiny (not dirty) and has a space to reflect back toward. Thus it seemed to me that putting reflective insulation in a concrete floor, as is recommended by some companies is a waste. Also, if the reflective insulation is installed in a place it can accumulate dust or dirt (attic floor) it will eventually become useless unless it is cleaned. Installing it under the attic roof, over the joist is better, but still will possibly need to be cleaned eventually. After all this, I determined a reflective roof to be the best choice for reflective insulation properties. I could not see that the cost/benefit ratio of reflective insulation installed in walls was better than using additional traditional type (cellulose) insulation. I attended a DOE conference and one presenter stated that if California had all white or reflective roofs, there would be 100 less smog days a year. I thought that rather significant and asked why there was not more reflective roofing available or used. He said that it is an esthetic problem- people just prefer the look of dark or black roofs. Personally, I think if people were informed of the potential energy savings, that would not be the case. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solar Decathalon
Anybody going or interested? http://www.eren.doe.gov/solar_decathlon/schedule.html Caroline G Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:...stuff in general
At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote: Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new home. http://www.warmboard.com/http://www.warmboard.com/ Joe. Looks cool, I installed our radiant floor system. One thing that I would like about putting the PEX under a wood floor is the ability to easily access it in the event of a problem. While hopefully this PEX will last as a many years as it is currently touted to last, it has truly not withstood the test of time. In addition, things like clogging due to hard water deposits are not really discussed much either. On one of my many trips to the building dept, during this construction, I met a man there looking for someone who could come repair his radiant floor system. 2/3 was not in use, had developed leaks and had to be shut off. He could find no one interested in looking at this job. I could not really think of a way to help him, he had installed Italian marble tile over the concrete. Removing this, hunting for a leak, (what if the copper degrades in another spot), And then trying to put it back together sounded rather impossible to me. One thing I learned from having this, is the heating effect is much more limited than I thought it would be- meaning there are strips of heat. It is not like walking on a sun warmed rock, the strips are warm the other part is cold. Thinking that the concrete would absorb and radiate the heat, I didn't worry too much about how deep the PEX was installed in the concrete. We zip tied them to the rebar and wire. Supposedly the wire is pulled up during the pour, reality looked a bit different to me as they rushed to pour and spread all the concrete. We chose the most efficient propane water heater I could find, a Polaris- and paid a lot for it. But it has resulted in bills that are very low compared to what would be expected from a house of this size. Of course I combined this with a huge amount of insulation- Double or more the recommended R-values for our area, walls too. Some of the saving may result in the fact that we can and do only operate some of the zones. We have found no need to turn on the middle zones or the storage area zone. (I put all closet and thing storage together in the house for this reason, rather than paying to condition space where laundry, food and other junk lives.) If air conditioning is a necessity in your climate, I think that in floor radiant heat becomes a luxury item. An air handler system is still needed to move the ac, unless you go with individual window units-(zones for each room!), but I am not sure about the energy consumption of individual units. If you are using solar or your own wood and therefore have access to a free hot water producer, it might make more economic sense. Personally I just hate forced air heat, and radiators were too expensive and too hard to find. (new thought- What if you made your own radiator out of the PEX ? Wouldn't heat a room as evenly, but it may have some advantages, needs to be tested.) Looking back, I think a better system would place the PEX in some sort of accessible site- a baseboard channel or along the floor joist, with insulation underneath just as we did the concrete, (perhaps with a layer of reflective mylar on top since there will be a nice air space in there). I would attach them to the same side of all the joists and take a few pictures to remind me of the positioning should I need to get to them sometime. (Already our shower has needed repair and we hoped for the best as the floor was chiseled away.) By the way, in looking for a ceiling material that wasn't drywall, I finally decided to use 5v metal- the same stuff that is used to roof sheds and barns, etc. We like a techy look anyway. Whether or not the reflective properties of this ceiling are helping deflect heat back down into the room is unknown. But is was easy to install, required no extra steps- taping, sanding, painting, and looks unusual. Wish I had used it in the bedrooms too. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and Stuff in general
At 09:13 PM 9/24/2002 +0200, you wrote: This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could go from its potential emission factor of less than 0.1 to 0.4+, but it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9 as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint, This excerpt is taken from the following source: http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html Most of the field tests have been done with clean radiant barriers. Laboratory measurements have shown that dust on the surface of aluminum foil increases the emissivity and decreases the reflectivity. This means that dust or other particles on the exposed surface of a radiant barrier will reduce its effectiveness. Radiant barriers installed in locations that collect dust or other surface contaminants will have a decreasing benefit to the homeowner over time. The attic floor application is most susceptible to accumulation of dust, while downward facing reflective surfaces used with many roof applications are not likely to become dusty. When radiant barriers are newly installed, some testing shows that the attic floor application will work better than the roof applications. As dust accumulates on the attic floor application, its effectiveness will gradually decrease. After a long enough period of time, a dusty attic floor application will lose much of its effectiveness. Predictive modeling results, based on testing, suggest that a dusty attic floor application will lose about half of its effectiveness after about one to ten years. As I previously stated, this is an older source- 1991 I believe, if there is newer studies to indicate that these predictions are incorrect, I would be interested in reading them. One problem is determining this would be the possibility that the HVAC equipment (and door seals, window seals, etc.) installed had also deteriorated in effectiveness over time too, thus raising heating/cooling cost which has nothing to do with the dusty radiant barrier. Additionally, if the actual effects of the radiant barrier are relatively minimal compared to the R-value of the cellulose installed underneath, that too would diminish the ability to compare a measurable difference. Caroline G [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...
At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: If you have access to cotton!!! I would turn that cotton into mushrooms. There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste. Turn cellulose into yummy! One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on coffee grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too weird for words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?, I think I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :) Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:...stuff in general
And this link for the home construction http://WWW.REWARDWALLS.COM/productoverview/iform_01.shtml?http://WWW.REWARDWALLS.COM/productoverview/iform_01.shtml? Very energy efficient, labor efficeint (my wife and kids can stack these blocks), and cost competitive to framing with wood. Joe :-) Did you actually use these? I know a couple around here that did. The biggest problem was getting the concrete poured exactly when they wanted it. She also said the job was taking way longer than they had anticipated. I considered this method quite a while. I particularly liked the insulation on both sides of the wall. However, for me, in this area, it was just not cost competitive with a double envelope design- concrete is too expensive. I got inspired by noticing some very old abandoned stone churches. I was thinking how enduring they were. (The same was true for a building I bought, the concrete and block sections are still up to present day fire code, though it was built in the 1920's.) I also appreciated the fact that if you don't paint it, you will never need to waste time and money maintaining the outside finish. I could not find a stucco finisher here in central VA, so the outside of our house is just parged with a basic broom finish. I did try to add color to the concrete columns supporting the walls, but the color didn't get dark enough to really see it. The walls end up 24 thick- 12 is cellulose insulation, there is also waterproof foam insulation on the interior of the outside block walls to prevent water from wicking through. Here are two of my favorite sites. Building Science http://www.buildingscience.com/topten/default.htm I read their site, attended one of his lectures and bought his book matching my humid mixed-climate. One of the best resources I used. Max's Pot- http://www2.cmpbs.org/cmpbs/ I saw pics of this place in Mother Earth News. Inspired by this, we tried to minimalize unnecessary details. I called them to find a fire-rated equivalent to drywall without all of the useless extra stuff- taping, sanding, painting, (I hate drywall), but they didn't know of anything better. Incidentally, Joe (above site) loves drywall and the ability to seal air leaks with proper sealing of it. This is an article describing what you see on an actual visit to the center, faster to get the gist reading this. http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/spec/greenbuild/pliny.html Sustainable source book http://www.greenbuilder.com/sourcebook/ Lots of good information, I another I liked even more, but am on new computer- no link. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:...stuff in general
At 06:41 AM 9/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: In this area, this type of construction is just a few percent more than conventional wood framing if you have it done. As I will be doing the construction myself, it comes out quite a bit less than stick framing. My house ended up being quite a bit less than the normal cost per square foot. Aside from what I have mentioned so far, you can email me privately since this so off topic. One trick was carefully figuring the CURRENT prices for every aspect of your building, look for the most cost efficient alternatives if possible- Example, in just two years, the price of having one sheet of drywall installed and finished had risen from $8 to $24. This was not including painting it. That would have significantly increased the price of my house. I used drywall only where absolutely necessary, and then sought alternatives. I decided on luon for many of the interior walls, keeping it's natural wood finish. (had to go about matching pieces to get whole rooms to be the same color wood.) Wish I had thought of tileboard for the kid and work rooms. This is just 4x8 sheets of dry erase board. I put some up after and love it. We have a huge 8 ft square project planning board in the kitchen. It cost the same as cheap paneling. It would have been great in a child's room- replace it when they grow up if desired, but for years it is cleanable and writeable. Thanks for those links. Best regards, Joe. I forgot to add a most excellent site: http://gfxtechnology.com/ Because I built on slab, I could not fit these in. (Perhaps now they have ones that go horizontal? ) But I thought the idea behind this was excellent. If I install a bathroom in the upstairs of my old building I may have to put these in. Also the one drawback to concrete or block walls is that the openings are pretty much set in stone. ;) One of my windows was measured from the wrong side of the next window- I didn't double check every measurement as they laid the block, I should have. I ended up having to move an interior wall and lose a window in the living room. (gaining one in a tiny sleeping space). This effected the daylighting designs effectiveness, decreasing the light where we needed it, and heating the small room up too much. I would like to add some skylights or sun tubes, but the extension kits needed to get them as long as I need seem to be cost prohibitive.-And cutting a hole in a perfectly good roof is difficult to start. Speaking of roofing, I searched and found a type of metal roofing that is installed like vinyl siding. Any construction guy can do it. If you are interested I will hunt the link for you. It way decreased the cost of having a metal roof installed. I bought the materials myself (most roofers make a profit both on the labor and on the materials mark up I discovered) and my own regular construction crew installed it. This was inspired by a house I used to live in. It had a bare aluminum roof that had NEVER required any maintenance in all the years I or the next owners lived there. Typical metal roofs were being painted every 5 years or so. Not to mention the reflective properties which started this. Incidentally, in my area, I am much more concerned with using the reflective roof to lower cooling bills in the summer(like a giant reflective car shade). The insulation does a good job of holding the heat inside in the winter. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=233217.2395914.3827946.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1227861/R=0/*http://ads.track-star.com/linker.ts?ts=1;2;312;3_2_114ccab13e.jpg 4ccab1ab.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Dead car???
We were just given a VW Jetta. It had 25 miles, but ran fine. My daughter, 19, who was to get the car, seems to have killed the transmission practicing learning to drive stick. It seems to only want to go into third gear now. I tagged it, and had it inspected. I put two new tires on it and a new battery. What do you all think I should do with it? Junk it? fix it... any idea on cost? Or what is wrong? I don't want to tow it in for an estimate if I should junk it- (the junk yard is across the highway, ;) Any body need a couple of new Jetta tires? (weep weep) I am in VA, if someone is interested in this project car. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Dead car
I am doing a solar project for the next two days. I will try to get back with more car info for those interested. The manual in the glovebox has 1986 on it. I would assume this is the correct year. As for other info, I will look ASAP. If anyone is still interested, feel free to contact me directly. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark, Canon more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/kP..SB/49VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biogas question
In doing some research for my 4-H solar class, I came across a simple biogas experiment. http://www.re-energy.ca/t-i_biomassbuild-1.shtml If biogas production basically involves just mixing poop and water, and letting it sit for a while, why is there not some attachment or something made to install on top of everyday septic tanks that would collect the gas? Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Butter diesel
At 07:55 PM 8/31/2003 +, you wrote: Can I use cow's milk fat to make biodiesel? May I ask why you would do this? I have a milk cow and cannot imagine that it is cost effective.in terms of feed and processing. Butter and cream is a premium product, sell it and use the money to go pick up some waste fryer oil. ;) Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?
At 10:54 PM 9/3/2003 +, you wrote: Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase? I was perusing the trader paper tonight. What do you all think? Mercedes Benz 1979 240D Runs, inspected, $500. Should I check it out? Or is it too old to consider? What am I looking for? Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alternative home heat
double-walled SS things of various types, with a firebox inside What was that originally? I want one. ;) Then there's a constant 60+ deg C heat supply from two one-cubic-metre compost piles (in series), So how exactly are you harvesting this heat to heat a home? I have an endless supply of wood chips I am trying to figure out how to use. Why do they have such things as pellet stoves but not wood chip stoves? I've never actually tried to burn them in the wood stove, but seems like if it would work well, everyone would use them rather than split and cut firewood. So, how can I turn these huge piles of chips into heat? (I can 'premix them with chicken manure by using the animal house bedding too if this helps.) Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: alternative heating
At 02:52 PM 9/21/2003 +, you wrote: Hi Caroline double-walled SS things of various types, with a firebox inside What was that originally? I want one. Water heaters, for hot water on demand, not for a constant supply: You find the coolest recycle at your dump. ;) Especially not this home. Which isn't exactly a home, it's a sort of barn/shed/workshop/studio/lecture room/office with some living space in between, Sounds like our house, right before the hurricane, I found a goat in one of the bedrooms, (the screen door had broken), he thought that would be a great place to weather the storm. and it's quite big, and extremely energy-inefficient (it's a 100-year-old traditional farmhouse that's been more or less neglected for 30 years) - Just have to ask, why don't you insulate it, rather than generate more heat or is this the purpose of the experiment- trying out different systems all at once? not too bad in summer, really bad in winter. The compost heat will help, even though it's not nearly enough. As I said there are a lot of bits in the puzzle and we'll figure out how to fit them together as we go along. It might be more effective to use some or all of the compost heat to heat the biogas digester, for instance. Anyway, I'll probably post further info about all this as it unfolds. Sustainable building is my favorite hobby, so I can't wait. I cannot find the link, but one that I found inspirational described an old way of building a farm house with the hay storage above the whole house- for insulation in winter, the animals housed beside the family (for heat and ease of care) a food storage section and the whole thing was fashioned as a single large structure. I may have gotten it from this list, or the homesteader forum. I have an endless supply of wood chips I am trying to figure out how to use. Why do they have such things as pellet stoves but not wood chip stoves? I've never actually tried to burn them in the wood stove, So try. I knew as I typed I would get that response. Seems my husband and I have discussed it... he is the household expert on wood fires. I'm sure one problem for ours currently, would be the moisture content.. these piles are outside, uncovered, and very moist, perfect in fact, for mushrooms, as is evident for the amount I found in one yesterday. So, I will need to devise a way to store them so that they dry enough, before attempting it, I guess I have never gotten that on the project list. Mushroom cultivation, has been on the list a year now, someday... So, how can I turn these huge piles of chips into heat? What sort of size are they? (The chips, not the piles.) The largest is 10x3 cm, and most are considerably smaller, including shredded leaf powder. The piles are roughly the size of a car. I'd guess there are 12-20 right now, from fresh to a year and a half old. What kind of wood? A mix, whatever grows in Virginia, mostly pine also cedar, wild cherry, oak, etc. I found a lost jug of bar and chain oil , half full yesterday. That is fine for burning, but not sure I appreciate it mixed in with the animal bedding. (On the other hand, I've heard used motor oil, painted on the bottom of a chicken coop will get rid of mite infestations, so maybe it will not hurt them.) Why have you got huge piles of wood chips? The power lines need to be kept clear of trees and branches, the county charges by weight to dispose of everything. So we let them dump truckloads in a corner of a field, if they are in our area. I figured we could use them for deep bedding after seeing Joel Salatin's farm. They are free, and kept out of the landfill. We end up getting far more than we can ever use. They definitely compost, slowly, as we can see the steam rising out of the tops. (I can 'premix them with chicken manure by using the animal house bedding too if this helps.) If the chips were small enough you could perhaps use them as a proportion of the chicken bedding in the first place. That is exactly what we do with them, they are the chicken bedding. (This is straight from the Salatin's) which reminds me, when I was visiting, Joel was considering running pex pipe through his chips, in the chick brooder, to provide more even heat for the chicks and prevent losses due to bunching under the brooder lights. He was going to heat the water with an outdoor furnace. Don't know what became of this idea, but it makes me think if he built his chip style bedding better he could achieve the needed heat straight from decomposition. http://journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting Thanks I'll reread. This is the final trial-run for our journey, where we figure out the detail of the technology we'll be using as much as possible, what we don't already know of it. There's much more to it than just alternative energy. We're doing well, we've covered a lot of ground already and learnt a lot, but there's still much more to
[biofuel] Yellow jackets
I realize this is not particularly about biofuel, but some on the list may be interested in a no poison way of getting rid of a yellow jacket nest. (Perhaps I should have measured how much electricity this used with my watt meter. In my case I'd be willing to pay whatever it costs. ;) We just discovered the weirdest but best way to deal with a yellow jacket nest. On Saturday my husband discovered hundreds of yellow jackets out by our chicken pens. He used up an entire can of bee spray. And while he saw some dropping, it didn't seem to make a dent in the amount of flying bees. Next he poured some chicken food over the hole in the ground, thinking they might eat them... NOT, chickens ran fast as they could to get away from those bees. He dug out a yellow jacket trap we had, it stinks, but all day we never saw a bee in it. Finally, he got out the Shopvac and put the hose opening near the nest opening. He got a bee every few seconds. You would have to see it to believe it. He does it for awhile then rests the motor. Last night he left the trap on the ground near the hole (which he had covered over, but I think they dug another exit nearby), this morning there are still lots of them left. So I put the vac hose right next to the trap. I actually emptied the area for a while. It really is amazing. The bees in the vac were dead when we looked. (We used a bag inside the vac.) Anyway, thought I'd share this no poison, no stinging risk way to get rid of a lot of bees. (We put all the extension pieces we had on the hose.) I am terrified of stinging insects, (flying needles) but even I could do this. Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/JYdFFC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The Meatrix
This is the best! And it pretty much explains the sustainable vs factory farm movement in a nutshell. http://www.themeatrix.com/ (If you have not seen the Matrix movie this will not seem nearly so humerous.) Caroline Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re:Water saving toilets
At 11:22 PM 12/27/2003 +, you wrote: Almost any garden variety physician will tell you that there are ~5 liquid flushes to one solid flush. Even if that solid flush has to be repeated twice or thrice, the water savings per person per day is still 50%. So you get caught with a floater once in awhile. Good! Gives all the more pause to reflect on waste rather than simply being an adherant to the gospel of out of sight, out of mind. LOL- you cracked me up, had to share that one! I must confess I have been unthinking on the water saving issue. I live with a well/ septic system and have always felt since it gets used and then gets deposited back into the ground to filter down and began again the worry about water shortage seemed concern that could be spent better elsewhere. However, being as I hate wasting on principle, and over processing in particular, your reminder about waste treatment in urban areas is a pressing concern. But I wonder if it works as you suggest above or more like the first poster suggested. Not to get too crudely technical, but females, at least in the USA where bidets are not standard, typically use toilet paper, whether there is liquid or solid waste to be disposed of, this makes all bathroom events solid waste, requiring multiple flushing. Perhaps a better way would be to raise the low flush requirement/design to 2 gallons or even better offer a grey water option (that used more water, thus flushed the first time) to homeowners. This would give an incentive to install grey water systems, reusing shower/tub water and yet still make a dent in the overall water consumption. This would of course be impractical for commercial spaces where grey water is more unavailable. Funny thing is we were just discussing this last night as I try to save some of the shower water that falls to the side and use it in just this way, we were trying to come up with a more automatic system. Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re:Greywater systems
At 11:35 PM 12/28/2003 +, you wrote: The grey system required twice as large a drain field as the black, something which ate up a lot of yard space and a goodly chunk of the budget. We do all the plumbing work ourselves, but if you were hiring it done, the expense of running double systems would also raise the cost of an installation considerably. I too installed more sustainable systems and found the additional expense of having to repeat some parts of the systems regrettable. I guess I was just thinking of specifically running shower water to toilets and then out to the regular black water septic system. Interesting about the sheep. I love finding out how different sustainable housing alternatives stack up in actual use. As for the households that only flush occasionally, while I am certainly not known for being particularly fastidious, I find that practice to be too smelly, especially with male liquid waste. It seems to me that male animals regardless of species seem to have a marking scent, that needs immediate flushing or outside air. (Maybe the boys could just water the trees?) Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re Million solar roofs
At 10:38 PM 12/29/2003 +, you wrote: Tellingly, visit the Department of Energy's Million Solar Roofs (MSR) website http://www.millionsolarroofs.org and click on the button, How's MSR doing? and you get a blank page! I was at a DOE conference in DC in 1999 as part of the research I did in alternative systems for the house I was building. When the time came to report on the MSR initiative the representative essentially said it was a dead project and there was nothing anticipated to enliven it. Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1902
At 10:38 PM 12/29/2003 +, you wrote: Get rid of the caffeine, nicotine, meat and cut way back on dairy and you'll find that nobody smells as bad as they did with it. True and even as I wrote that I knew there was more to it than gender, I must say my opinion is based on a limited study group- my husband and son. The son was completely breastfed at the time, and still the smell was much worse than it had been for the girls, Admittedly I made assumptions based on that limited comparison. Deodorants can usually be abandoned altogether, Actually I personally find women to be more naturally fragrant in that area, with or without shaving. Besides, humans haven't been coming off the assembly line with scent glands per se for the past several thousand years. I am not sure what you meant by this, but I was assuming that natural smells were normal biological processes, some of which have been conditioned by industrialized society to be interpreted as offensive where perhaps they are not or even are desirable in other cultures. I have too little direct information on that issue to make definitive statements. And while this doesn't have a grand amount to do with biofuels, some of these wrong perceptions sure can lend to mountains of consumer purchases of produets de parfume in the collective. These same products require enormous amounts of chemicals, energy and other resources to produce and transport, and generate even more needless waste and polution in their use and disposal. Absolutely, however again I must say it is also a fair amount of cultural conditioning. Back to a similar original example, diapers. Human babies have lived the first few months in some form or other of diapers since they started wearing clothes. Yet today with disposable diapers with the absorbent gel stuff and scent inside, there is almost no odor. While this seems a plus to the average consumer, the waste created and the waste and cost to produce these, is staggering. But, in just a few years this method of child care has become so much the standard that using a traditional and environmentally friendly method is becoming scarce and unavailable for many lifestyles. (Most daycare centers, not that I approve I institutionalized child rearing, will not allow anything but disposable diapers.) This has become yet another necessity, that must be provided for the indigent, along with formula, and baby food which to me is the best example of how skewed industrialized cultures have become. I rent space to social services and have had opportunity to observe both their clients and their rules. The requirements they have that are not only wasteful but often arguably contribute to poor outcomes in their clients lives are amazing to me. Imagine the bottom line that could be eroded of some realy ugly corporations and industrial practices if humans started getting rid of root problems rather than just covering them up. Nasty business that of deception. I believe deception is the name of the game. Most modern products are springing up not out of need, but out of deceptive advertising to try to convince the public they need to buy the product. (Children grew to adulthood for years and years before Gerber marketed babyfood.) to ruining millions of weekends for young lad's whenever grandmum and Aunty Jean give up those full body hugs upon each visit. So I'm confused are you for or against deodorant? LOL I think the problems we are discussing becomes even more complex, and a future legal issue should smells that one group or the majority find offensive or alluring become illegal to allow to intrude on the senses of others. It seems far-fetched now, but I could see plenty of greedy corporations willing to provide solutions. I for one cannot stand the smell of vinegar, a substance that most folks find appetizing, in my own domain, my house, neither it nor anything discernibly made with it is allowed. And though it makes me physically ill to smell it, I would never want to encourage public or private establishments to outlaw it's use. (OK, I will admit I can't actually eat at a place that smells like vinegar and therefore am discouraging it's viability, nonetheless I try to be as supportive as I can to others.) And yet, isn't a touted benefit for veggie oil powered vehicles that the emissions smell like french fries? I think we cannot discount sensory perception in the question of living sustainably. Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US
[biofuel] Re: Was deodorant..
At 09:02 PM 12/31/2003, you wrote: Caroline here is something that looks to me to be completely over the top. I might add that I'm a millitant antismoker. Courier Mail 6th Nov 2003 (Australia) snip The Anti-Smoking Manifesto Bra It seems to be over someone's top. Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re:Black widows ,brown recluses
We probably find one Black widow a day here in rural VA in the summer. Wearing gloves as suggested is a great idea, but I find not always practical. I ALWAYS look to see what I am putting my hand on though, that habit is pretty easy to get. Black widows are almost always hanging under something, but that could be within folds of a tarp to the holes in a cinder block, or a wagon turned upside down to keep rain from collecting in it.Any we find around the house we kill, because children may not be so careful, but beyond the perimeter of the play yard or work area we ignore them. About brown recluses I am somewhat more concerned but we have never actually seen any. I did have a young man visiting who said he had been bitten by a brown recluse, and proceeded to get a nasty looking wound. After doing exhaustive research on the net, It is still unclear as to what happens with one of their bites. This young man seem to get reoccurring wounds, but not always in exactly the same place. He said it was quite painful. The emergency room didn't offer any real help (and the bill was pretty debilitating). One suggestion from the net was to electric shock the wound, and so we tried that using an electric fence charger. It seemed to have helped it heal quicker than the other wounds he had. Certainly he could have been getting multiple bites, but as I said we never saw one, and he had been bitten before he stayed with us, and then another wound showed up while he was here. Caroline Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PHOTOS!!!! (BD, of course)
Bravo! That is a great site. I couldn't have asked for more, lest I was standing there watching. For those of us who follow along with difficulty, being that chemistry was a 20+ year distant memory, that was an excellent demonstration on how everything is done. Thanks, Caroline G. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
