Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
nearly same story as sdsl before, VTX used 2 IP out of the customer /29 range for the wan link. Traceroute looked funny, not to mention how that improved icmp Trouble Cheers ... Am 8 Jun 2007 um 1:09 hat Daniel Roethlisberger geschrieben: Date sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 01:09:56 +0200 From: Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:swinog- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:swinog- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pascal Gloor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-06-07: [snip] This is the normal routed case. I think this is what Daniel was looking for. Not quite, but oh never mind. The point I was trying to make is the fact that vtx engineers explained to a customer that he would not be able to assign *any* address of his /30 subnet to a server behind his ADSL router because all of the subnet would be consumed by the link from the LNS to the ADSL router (I guess this hasn't come across too well from my message). It seems nobody can imagine how this is supposed to be the case, so I guess that confirms that it's probably bogus information. Thanks anyway for all responses! Cheers Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog csdatabrasil Ltda. Roger Schmid Rua Arquiteto Luiz Nunes 186 Imbiribeira CEP: 51170-430 Recife/ PE BR +55 81 3422 1714 US: +1 360 515 33 80 CH:+41 32 5110858 UK: +44 8444845331 VOIP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] attachment: linha.jpg ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
First usable, 01. Some devices allow you to use network/broadcast addresses too and this is not a problem for the LNS (you will understand because of the strange routing at the end of the mail) However, not all do, so using the +1 IP seems the best option. The typical setups you can have in Switzerland are: ISP ppp fixed/dynamic ip ADSL with nat --- LAN private IPs (no need to explain anything here) ISP --- ppp with subnet other than /32 --- ADSL with multinat --- LAN private IPs AFAIR, Multinat is the term used by ZyXEL. It means you have multiple IPs on the WAN side, however you get assigned only one but you still can do NAT entries for the other IPs of the subnet. ISP --- ppp with fixed/dynamic IP --- ADSL routed --- LAN with public range This is the normal routed case. I think this is what Daniel was looking for. If VTX does not offer this, I know other ISPs that do it (hmmm for example I do :P) spamWe offer all three possibilities./spam Perhaps for a better understanding of the curious, I can show the differencies in the radius, The classic fixed IP: Framed-IP-Address = 1.2.3.4 # WAN IP Framed-IP-Netmask = 255.255.255.255 # WAN MASK The classic routed range: Framed-IP-Address = 1.2.3.4 #WAN IP Framed-IP-Netmask = 255.255.255.255 # WAN MASK Framed-Route = 2.3.4.0/24 # LAN PREFIX And finally the MultiNAT way (I find it kinda ugly..) Framed-IP-Address = 1.2.3.129 # WAN IP Framed-IP-Netmask = 255.255.255.248 # WAN MASK Framed-Route = 1.2.3.128/25 The route here seems useless, but it is not. The Cisco takes a PPP client with a /32 mask, overriding the Framed-IP-Netmask. Therefor you have to route the other IPs to the customer. The netmask seems useless if the cisco ignores it, but you still need to send it because the PPP device (ZyXel, netscreen, whatever) really cares about it ;-) lns01.xxx#show ip route vrf xxx xxx.xxx.xxx.65 Routing entry for xxx.xxx.xxx.65/32 Known via connected, distance 0, metric 0 (connected, via interface) Routing Descriptor Blocks: * directly connected, via Virtual-Access328 Route metric is 0, traffic share count is 1 lns01.xxxb#show ip route vrf xxx xxx.xxx.xxx.64 Routing entry for xxx.xxx.xxx.64/29 Known via static, distance 1, metric 0 Redistributing via ospf xxx Advertised by ospf xxx subnets route-map xxx Routing Descriptor Blocks: * xxx.xxx.xxx.65 Route metric is 0, traffic share count is 1 I hope it helped anyone to understand this... But perhaps they are confused now ;-) Cheers, Pascal smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Pascal Gloor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-06-07: [snip] This is the normal routed case. I think this is what Daniel was looking for. Not quite, but oh never mind. The point I was trying to make is the fact that vtx engineers explained to a customer that he would not be able to assign *any* address of his /30 subnet to a server behind his ADSL router because all of the subnet would be consumed by the link from the LNS to the ADSL router (I guess this hasn't come across too well from my message). It seems nobody can imagine how this is supposed to be the case, so I guess that confirms that it's probably bogus information. Thanks anyway for all responses! Cheers Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Dear Daniel, and all, Yes, I confirm if you order a /30, /29, /28, etc to VTX, the first IP of the subnet is assigned to the CPE with the right mask associated. This setup works on Cisco and Zyxel ADSL as the WAN interface is using the IP from the LAN side and the LNS sees both a /32 and a /30 route...not sure about other xDSL CPEs though (o; I confirm, this setup works on most of the CPE. For exemple with a /30 you have one IP for your LAN gateway and one usable. That's normal, it's a /30. :) Have a nice day, Jerome -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Daniel Roethlisberger Envoyé : dimanche, 3. juin 2007 22:46 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-06-03: This setup works on Cisco and Zyxel ADSL as the WAN interface is using the IP from the LAN side and the LNS sees both a /32 and a /30 route...not sure about other xDSL CPEs though (o; In this setup, the PPP endpoint address of the CPE router is the same as it's LAN address, and the customer still gets his /30 network to use as expected, i.e. there's an address left for, say, a server. In the vtx case (if correct), there is nothing of the /30 left to the customer to use, except the WAN address assigned via PPPoX. Granted, this does not sound very sane, since the customer pays for a /30 which he does not get. Maybe the vtx engineers just had bad luck explaining the above to the customer. Cheers -Dan cheers rick Daniel Roethlisberger schrieb: It seems that vtx has some very strange way of configuring the /30 subnet when customers order 4 fix IP addresses. Normally when someone orders a /30, the ADSL router's PPP interface would get an address from an unrelated address range. The 4 addresses from the customer's /30 subnet can be used by the custumer for the network and broadcast addresses (-2), the router's LAN interface (-1), leaving one address for a server or desktop machine. However, this seems not to be the case at vtx.ch. As two vtx engineers explained to a (tech-savvy dipl. Inform.) customer, they use the addresses from the /30 subnet for the PPP link between their last router and the customer's ADSL router. So in effect, this means ordering a /30 subnet (the 4 fix IP addresses option) from vtx gets you the same as ordering a single fix IP address -- you get a static address on your ADSL router's PPPoA/PPPoE interface, period. To actually use the static address on a server/desktop, you need to either configure destination NAT on your router or operate it in bridging mode and run PPPoE directly from the server/desktop. Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? -Dan ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Jérôme Tissières [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-06-04: Yes, I confirm if you order a /30, /29, /28, etc to VTX, the first IP of the subnet is assigned to the CPE with the right mask associated. The first being what is normally referred to as the network address (ending in bits 00) or the first normal address (end bits 01)? -Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
First usable, 01. Cu, Jerome -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Daniel Roethlisberger Envoyé : lundi, 4. juin 2007 13:54 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice Jérôme Tissières [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-06-04: Yes, I confirm if you order a /30, /29, /28, etc to VTX, the first IP of the subnet is assigned to the CPE with the right mask associated. The first being what is normally referred to as the network address (ending in bits 00) or the first normal address (end bits 01)? -Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
[swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
It seems that vtx has some very strange way of configuring the /30 subnet when customers order 4 fix IP addresses. Normally when someone orders a /30, the ADSL router's PPP interface would get an address from an unrelated address range. The 4 addresses from the customer's /30 subnet can be used by the custumer for the network and broadcast addresses (-2), the router's LAN interface (-1), leaving one address for a server or desktop machine. However, this seems not to be the case at vtx.ch. As two vtx engineers explained to a (tech-savvy dipl. Inform.) customer, they use the addresses from the /30 subnet for the PPP link between their last router and the customer's ADSL router. So in effect, this means ordering a /30 subnet (the 4 fix IP addresses option) from vtx gets you the same as ordering a single fix IP address -- you get a static address on your ADSL router's PPPoA/PPPoE interface, period. To actually use the static address on a server/desktop, you need to either configure destination NAT on your router or operate it in bridging mode and run PPPoE directly from the server/desktop. Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? -Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
We have on ADSL an /24 The Broadcast adresses xx.xx.xx.0 and xx.xx.xx.255 arn't to take And the xx.xx.xx.1 is for the Router this is correct. If the costumer are useing 4 IP's he must book 8 IP's than he can use 5 IP's This is normal... Greetings X. Aerni -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Daniel Roethlisberger Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Juni 2007 21:23 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice It seems that vtx has some very strange way of configuring the /30 subnet when customers order 4 fix IP addresses. Normally when someone orders a /30, the ADSL router's PPP interface would get an address from an unrelated address range. The 4 addresses from the customer's /30 subnet can be used by the custumer for the network and broadcast addresses (-2), the router's LAN interface (-1), leaving one address for a server or desktop machine. However, this seems not to be the case at vtx.ch. As two vtx engineers explained to a (tech-savvy dipl. Inform.) customer, they use the addresses from the /30 subnet for the PPP link between their last router and the customer's ADSL router. So in effect, this means ordering a /30 subnet (the 4 fix IP addresses option) from vtx gets you the same as ordering a single fix IP address -- you get a static address on your ADSL router's PPPoA/PPPoE interface, period. To actually use the static address on a server/desktop, you need to either configure destination NAT on your router or operate it in bridging mode and run PPPoE directly from the server/desktop. Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? -Dan -- Daniel Roethlisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Evnin' This setup works on Cisco and Zyxel ADSL as the WAN interface is using the IP from the LAN side and the LNS sees both a /32 and a /30 route...not sure about other xDSL CPEs though (o; cheers rick Daniel Roethlisberger schrieb: It seems that vtx has some very strange way of configuring the /30 subnet when customers order 4 fix IP addresses. Normally when someone orders a /30, the ADSL router's PPP interface would get an address from an unrelated address range. The 4 addresses from the customer's /30 subnet can be used by the custumer for the network and broadcast addresses (-2), the router's LAN interface (-1), leaving one address for a server or desktop machine. However, this seems not to be the case at vtx.ch. As two vtx engineers explained to a (tech-savvy dipl. Inform.) customer, they use the addresses from the /30 subnet for the PPP link between their last router and the customer's ADSL router. So in effect, this means ordering a /30 subnet (the 4 fix IP addresses option) from vtx gets you the same as ordering a single fix IP address -- you get a static address on your ADSL router's PPPoA/PPPoE interface, period. To actually use the static address on a server/desktop, you need to either configure destination NAT on your router or operate it in bridging mode and run PPPoE directly from the server/desktop. Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? -Dan ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Hi, Normally when someone orders a /30, the ADSL router's PPP interface would get an address from an unrelated address range. The 4 addresses from the customer's /30 subnet can be used by the custumer for the network and broadcast addresses (-2), the router's LAN interface (-1), leaving one address for a server or desktop machine. or if you have a capable adsl router, you can nat all four addresses to internal server addresses However, this seems not to be the case at vtx.ch. As two vtx engineers explained to a (tech-savvy dipl. Inform.) customer, they use the addresses from the /30 subnet for the PPP link between their last router and the customer's ADSL router. So in effect, this means ordering a /30 subnet (the 4 fix IP addresses option) from vtx gets you the same as ordering a single fix IP address -- you get a static address on your ADSL router's PPPoA/PPPoE interface, period. To actually use the static address on a server/desktop, you need to either configure destination NAT on your router or operate it in bridging mode and run PPPoE directly from the server/desktop. Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? this seems like a wierd setup... so for each /30 customer they would set up one of the four ip addresses on the interface of their provider router? I don't know about current practice, but older vtx (ex-tiscali, to be precise), the practice was to get an unrelated ip on the wan interface. Jiri ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] vtx ADSL /30 subnet practice
Can anybody confirm that this is current practice at vtx? Are other providers doing the same? On a cybernet 4-IP-Addresses ADSL setup I can actively use the two middle IPs in a BRouter setup, the router using the lower address. The vtx setup you describe is indeed kind of useless. If it's truth then I guess the vtx people need an update on best practice recomendations. Regards, Jean-Pierre -- HILOTEC Engineering + Consulting AG - Langnau im Emmental Energietechnik und Datensysteme: Server, PCs, Linux, Telefonanlagen, VOIP, Hosting, Datenbanken, Entwicklung, Komplettlösungen für KMUs Tel: +41 34 402 74 00 - http://www.hilotec.com/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
