Re: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
Fredy et all I get about 10 such complaints per week: My statement: As long as *nobody* pays me the time I need to find out, which customer belongs to which IP, I will not do that work. Any legal issue has to be communicated by signed letter - or else it will land in the trashcan anyway... I'm thinking about blocking those addresses for a long time - nobody can urge me to accept email from anybody ;-) Cheers, Viktor On Thursday 25 September 2003 22:31, Fredy Kuenzler wrote: Mark, MediaSentry Copyright Infringement wrote: RE: Unauthorized Distribution of the Copyrighted Motion Picture Entitled Matrix: Reloaded, The Dear Fredy Kuenzler: ---snip-snap--- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
Alexander Koch wrote: [snip] If I am not utterly mistaken whether a personal copy is allowed or not is not taken into account when this personal copy is actively offered through a p2p network. At the point any copy is offered it's automatically not a personal copy any longer... Good point, but I expect that the user downloaded and stored the file for personal use on his computer, which is not a law violation in Switzerland, because he did only *one* copy. It's also not illegal to run a P2P program. If a downloaded file is stored in a folder, which is made public of the P2P program, you might possibly blame the programmer of the P2P program, but not the user, which does not know much about computers - all he want's to do is watching a movie. See the anaolgy to worm viruses? Programmers of virues should be sued, but not naive users, which don't know anything about security patches. They are of course annoying but not illegal. my CHF 0.05 F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
RE: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
I think you'll find that there are always questions over who is to blame and who has commited a crime. In the end the courts [atleast in the UK and US] tend to go after the easiest targets, thus the ISPs. You'll also find that the media industries are working incredibly hard to kill off the idea that one copy for personal use is ok. But from a personaly perspective they are all wasting their time, the media companies need to address the problems that cause this issue in the first place - too long release times, people annoyed going to the cinema and hearing popcorn being chewed or SMS bleeps, too high prices, poor over hyped films. The music industry is starting to show signs that it understands and appears to be making changes [atleast in the price respect] lets hope that this continues. When you see pop stars getting paid 83M GBP in one single deal then in my view its clear that something isn't right. Regards, Neil. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fredy Kuenzler Sent: 26 September 2003 08:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement Alexander Koch wrote: [snip] If I am not utterly mistaken whether a personal copy is allowed or not is not taken into account when this personal copy is actively offered through a p2p network. At the point any copy is offered it's automatically not a personal copy any longer... Good point, but I expect that the user downloaded and stored the file for personal use on his computer, which is not a law violation in Switzerland, because he did only *one* copy. It's also not illegal to run a P2P program. If a downloaded file is stored in a folder, which is made public of the P2P program, you might possibly blame the programmer of the P2P program, but not the user, which does not know much about computers - all he want's to do is watching a movie. See the anaolgy to worm viruses? Programmers of virues should be sued, but not naive users, which don't know anything about security patches. They are of course annoying but not illegal. my CHF 0.05 F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog% 40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
R: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
You are all too generous with these people. That's a complete waste of time. A notice of claimed infringement from the United States has no legal value whatsoever in Switzerland. We receive tons of these emails everyday. I personally classify them as Spam. If they want something from us, they can ask a Swiss judge. Period. :-) Regards Manuel ___ Ticinocom SA - Via dei Pioppi 10 - 6616 Losone Tel 0844 007070 - Fax 0844 007071 http://www.ticinocom.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
* on the Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 07:28:54AM +0200, Alexander Koch wrote: If I am not utterly mistaken whether a personal copy is allowed or not is not taken into account when this personal copy is actively offered through a p2p network. At the point any copy is offered it's automatically not a personal copy any longer... Actually, the use of P2P-tools or whatsoever for downloading music and movies is perfectly legal; this was recently affirmed by a swiss court. Even if this content is offered illegally. However, offering said content yourself _is_ illegal, even if you own the original. You may, though, give copies of it to friends or relatives of yours (fair use directive), as long as this remains withing reasonable borders (giving it to 3 or 4 friends is ok, giving it to 20 is not). But sharing content to which you're not entitled to through P2P to possibly thousands of others is _not_ fair use. Note that this has nothing to do with the personal copy. That personal copy is only for software, and only for software you're entitled to (e.g. have a license). But speaking of that claim the movie-industry makes here: It may well be that this user is sharing content illegally. However, this is not of interest to the ISP. If the movie-industry wants to take action against this user, it has to take this to the police, and a judge will sign a letter to the ISP, telling the ISP to disclose the identity of the user. Without a juridical order, the ISP _may not_ disclose customer-data. And certainly not to a US-company which does not adhere to the rigid privacy-protection-laws we have here. Cheers Seegras -- Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: R: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:25:52 +0200 Manuel Wenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are all too generous with these people. That's a complete waste of time. A notice of claimed infringement from the United States has no legal value whatsoever in Switzerland. We receive tons of these emails everyday. I personally classify them as Spam. If they want something from us, they can ask a Swiss judge. Period. :-) full ack and do not forget to ask for a french, german, italien or much better a rumansch translation! and BTW, how can I be sure that the sender is really the copyright holder? every body can write such emails. Ueli -- The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed Linux -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: R: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
ueli heuer wrote:
Manuel Wenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are all too generous with these people. That's a complete waste
of time. A notice of claimed infringement from the United States
has no legal value whatsoever in Switzerland. We receive tons of
these emails everyday. I personally classify them as Spam. If
they want something from us, they can ask a Swiss judge. Period.
:-)
full ack and do not forget to ask for a french, german, italien or
much better a rumansch translation!
I wasn't aware that these mails come along in dozens or hundreds. I
suggest that we (SwiNOG) write some kind position paper, maybe in
cooperation with Siug, which is published on our website. Suggestions,
proposals? I guess law people of this list are most welcome to
contribute now :-)
ISP's receiving such mails from music or movie industrie and their
lawyers can simply point them to it ...
rant
if (sender == mediasentry)
{ mail($autoanswer with link) } ;
/rant
F.
--
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http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
RE: R: [swinog] Re: Case ID 1070964 - Notice of Claimed Infringement
I wasn't aware that these mails come along in dozens or hundreds. I suggest that we (SwiNOG) write some kind position paper, maybe in cooperation with Siug, which is published on our website. Suggestions, proposals? I guess law people of this list are most welcome to contribute now :-) ISP's receiving such mails from music or movie industrie and their lawyers can simply point them to it ... well, i think these lawyers from the music industry even know how's the law in switzerland. see germany: how fast they are trying to change it ... successfully change it... they try to force us with psychical pressure to react on these letters. maybe they are hoping that we will sue our own customers... -steven -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
