Re: [sword-devel] New LXX module

[Greg Hellings]

On Jan 3, 2018 03:06, "Cyrille"  wrote:

Hello,
I noticed that the current LXX module doesn't have all the books, just
the hebrew/protestant canonicals. I am available to create a new module
with these missing books, but I need the current osis file if it is
possible. I download already a doc file with all the text of the missing
books, and use mod2osis to convert the current module. But I think it
will be better if I can access to the source code or the the "true" osis
file.


It bears asking which other books you have material for, and if SWORD
supports them.

--Greg


Best regards, Br Cyrille


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Re: [sword-devel] New LXX module

[David Haslam]

Actually, Cyrille, your having the OSIS XML file for the existing LXX is not 
strictly a necessity.

osis2mod has a command line switch -a that enables an existing module to be 
augmented.

All you need to supply as new source text is an OSIS XML file for the missing 
books.

This may go somewhat beyond the usual procedure for releasing modules, yet it's 
a method that DM Smith & I already use for the KJVA module.
We now have two OSIS XML files.

- One for the 66 protocanonical books in the KJV module
- One for the 14 deuterocanonical books (called KJVDC)

Of course, if the "modules team" still has a copy of LXX.osis.xml (or whatever 
it's called), then things would be simpler.

Best regards,

David

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>  Original Message 
> Subject: [sword-devel] New LXX module
> Local Time: 3 January 2018 9:05 AM
> UTC Time: 3 January 2018 09:05
> From: lafricai...@gmail.com
> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum 
>
> Hello,
> I noticed that the current LXX module doesn't have all the books, just
> the hebrew/protestant canonicals. I am available to create a new module
> with these missing books, but I need the current osis file if it is
> possible. I download already a doc file with all the text of the missing
> books, and use mod2osis to convert the current module. But I think it
> will be better if I can access to the source code or the the "true" osis
> file.
>
> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>
> ---
>
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> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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[sword-devel] Versifications

[Peter Von Kaehne]

Dear all,

There are a bunch of sometimes confused and sometimes confusing comments 
currently on a variety of threads, so here a short summary of current policy, 
reasons behind it and future re versifications.

1) Loading versification schemes takes time on low resource environments, 
making programme startup slow. We therefore have a policy of being very very 
slow in accepting the need for any new versifications. 

2) New ones need to fulfill a definite need beyond say ~ 100 verses ( a number 
was set once, and I think it was 100) verses being out of sync in a variety of 
places. 100 verses in a single or two places of course (like Malachi with its 3 
or 4 chapters would be more readily be accepted as a problem. 

3) Also, the more new or existing modules would be served by a new 
versification the better. We do not aim for perfection with the existing 
versifications but for approximation and best service for the largest number of 
essentially similar texts. 

4) Exceptions are important historical/ original source texts. Here perfect 
cover for a single module is needed and versifications have been added for 
single modules.   

5) It is essentially impossible to withdraw existing versifications as people 
have all kinds of devices and access our texts from all kinds of new and old 
versions of our programmes - once added, we aim for never having to withdraw a 
versification.

Up until a couple of years ago and everything prior to the new French 
versifications has been processed and approved by Chris Little who had an 
exceptional eye for detail and at the same time an exceptional ability to keep 
a high level overview. 

I have taken on the mantle of Chris in several areas - fixes around the 
filters, module making tools and in particular module uploads etc, but I am 
neither detail obsessed enough nor interested enough in matters of 
versifications to continue doing what he did. No one else has so far come 
forward with an expressed desire to hold that mantle. 

When Troy discussed the recent new catholic versifications I advised him not to 
accept these into the current release unless someone else considers them as a) 
needed and b) correctly done. When Domcox put his 3 French versifications in 
there had been a long accepted need for just these which preceeded Chris' 
leaving, so it was a lot easier to simply agree to put them in. But this is now 
missing. from now on for all new currently discussed versifications and 
potential other ones.

So, we need a new approval person or process to move forward here. Without it, 
there is no decent way forward to accept new versifications. 

An entirely separate matter is mapping of references to versifications. We have 
limited mapping data in the engine. Not all existing versifications are covered 
and not all kind of references will ever likely be satisfactorily mapped. Where 
the data is there, the process is transparent That is if you open a reference 
to the plague of the frogs by a French Bible in, say, a Russian Synodal 
translation, then the exact same story should come up, even if it is out by a 
chapter and 3 verses or whatever in terms of absolute references. 

Where this will not ever work in the deuterocanonical material - as said above 
- it is highly unlikely that this will ever be satisfactorily mapped. But 
normal canonical material should be always mappable unless deliberately left 
out (e.g. some verses in the NT not in the newer Greek editions). 

As the mapping data is likely to become more complete as time goes on and will 
always get into engine releases as fast as possible there is emphatically no 
reason to create workarounds WITHIN modules to fix missing mapping data. 
Rather, if you perceive a problem submit your data as mapping data and we can 
all benefit in many more modules than just your own. 

Hope this clarifies some things.

Peter  

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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

[Dominique Corbex]

A few thoughts:

Calvin is just the label I choose for naming the v11n of French Bibles based on 
the Textus Receptus released in Geneva, Switzerland from 1535 till nowadays. In 
French, these Bibles are named 'Bibles de Genève' (Geneva Bibles). I've could 
have named the v11n 'Geneva', but it already exists an English Geneva Bible 
issued in 1560, using another v11n. John Calvin prefaced the first French Bible 
in 1535, then revised the full Bible in 1560, a version nicknamed 'Bible de 
l'Épée' or 'Bible of the Sword' in English, two good reasons among others, I 
think, for naming this v11n as 'Calvin'.

The Calvin v11n should include OT, NT, and optionally deuterocanonical books.

The BHS (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) on the other hand, besides the 
different book order, is an edition of the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible 
and clearly contains OT only.

Hope it helps
-- .
domcox 

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[sword-devel] New LXX module

[Cyrille]

Hello,
I noticed that the current LXX module doesn't have all the books, just
the hebrew/protestant canonicals. I am available to create a new module
with these missing books, but I need the current osis file if it is
possible. I download already a doc file with all the text of the missing
books, and use mod2osis to convert the current module. But I think it
will be better if I can access to the source code or the the "true" osis
file.

Best regards, Br Cyrille


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Re: [sword-devel] Catholic and Catholic2 versification

[Cyrille]

Le 03/01/2018 à 09:32, David Haslam a écrit :
> Thanks, Cyrille,
>
> I'll update the wiki page section. 
>
> NB. There is no v11n called Catholic1.
Yes sorry, I know!
>
> There's no plan to obsolete the Catholic & Catholic2 v11ns.
> Some existing released modules were built to these.
>
> The most we might do would be to deprecate them for new modules.
Yes it is my mind, deprecate for new module, because the old catholic
are some issues.

> Further discussion is required before we could even get to that stage.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 08:19, Cyrille  > wrote:
>> I'm happy to read on the wiki the addition of the new Catholic v11n.
>> Do you have an idea when the 1.8.1 version will be released?
>> I give you a proposition of text for the wiki (need correction of my
>> English!) because I can't access it, (there is also a mistake
>> in**"sig*n*ificant" in the wiki):
>>
>> /Catholic variants, base on the Catholic liturgical translations
>> (based itself on the neovulgate), of which two correspond to existing
>> Catholic versifications://
>> //
>> //Catholic_lit – like Catholic but with significant differences,
>> Esther with 10 chapters//
>> //Catholic2_lit – like Catholic2 but with significant differences,
>> Esther with 16 chapters//
>> //Catholic3_lit – a new Catholic versification corresponding to
>> Catholic1, but where Esther's alternate versification is integrated
>> into the current 10 chapters, to allow a better reading. This means
>> that the verses of the chapters numbered with letters are integrated
>> into the current 10 chapters of Esther./*/
>> /*
>> Maybe when the 1.8.1 version will be released, It should be added to
>> point out that Catholic and Catholic2 v11n are obsolete, in favour of
>> the new Catholic_lit...
>>
>> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>>
>> Le 29/12/2017 à 17:52, DM Smith a écrit :
>>> My concern at the time was that once we’ve a v11n that has been released 
>>> and modules have been built with it we really can’t change it. People keep 
>>> modules around long after we’ve updated or obsoleted them. We want them to 
>>> be able to update their front-end without losing functionality of the 
>>> modules that they have. If we had never released a module with them then 
>>> they could be fixed.
>>>
>>> If I understand Cyrille has addressed those concerns by essentially 
>>> creating a v2 for two of them using new names. The third is novel and 
>>> wasn’t an issue.
>>>
>>> If so, then I don’t see any problems with adding them.
>>>
>>> In Him,
>>> DM
>>>
 On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Cyrille  wrote:

 This is my first post:

 Le 05/06/2017 à 09:18, Cyrille a écrit :
> Hi,
> Working with Catholic bibles I realized that there were some errors in
> the versifications currently proposed.
> I found for all those in which I could verify the following errors:
> Ps 101 8 verses, not 9
> Job 25 6 verses not 14
> Job 27 23  verses not 24
> CT 4 16  verses not 17
> Zach 4 14 verses not 16
> These proposed corrections, moreover, correspond to th canon.h file
>
> I don't if I need to open an new issue on github or no?
> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>
>
 After it I created 3 new v11n. Two the same as the existing, with the
 corrections, and with a new name, and a new one that add the extra
 versification of Esther in the 10 chapters.
 Nothing really complicated, if you agree, just to add it to sources :)


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Re: [sword-devel] Catholic and Catholic2 versification

[David Haslam]

Thanks, Cyrille,

I'll update the wiki page section.

NB. There is no v11n called Catholic1.

There's no plan to obsolete the Catholic & Catholic2 v11ns.
Some existing released modules were built to these.

The most we might do would be to deprecate them for new modules.
Further discussion is required before we could even get to that stage.

Best regards,

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 08:19, Cyrille  wrote:

> I'm happy to read on the wiki the addition of the new Catholic v11n. Do you 
> have an idea when the 1.8.1 version will be released?
> I give you a proposition of text for the wiki (need correction of my 
> English!) because I can't access it, (there is also a mistake in"significant" 
> in the wiki):
>
> Catholic variants, base on the Catholic liturgical translations (based itself 
> on the neovulgate), of which two correspond to existing Catholic 
> versifications:
>
> Catholic_lit – like Catholic but with significant differences, Esther with 10 
> chapters
> Catholic2_lit – like Catholic2 but with significant differences, Esther with 
> 16 chapters
> Catholic3_lit – a new Catholic versification corresponding to Catholic1, but 
> where Esther's alternate versification is integrated into the current 10 
> chapters, to allow a better reading. This means that the verses of the 
> chapters numbered with letters are integrated into the current 10 chapters of 
> Esther.
>
> Maybe when the 1.8.1 version will be released, It should be added to point 
> out that Catholic and Catholic2 v11n are obsolete, in favour of the new 
> Catholic_lit...
>
> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>
> Le 29/12/2017 à 17:52, DM Smith a écrit :
>
>> My concern at the time was that once we’ve a v11n that has been released and 
>> modules have been built with it we really can’t change it. People keep 
>> modules around long after we’ve updated or obsoleted them. We want them to 
>> be able to update their front-end without losing functionality of the 
>> modules that they have. If we had never released a module with them then 
>> they could be fixed.
>>
>> If I understand Cyrille has addressed those concerns by essentially creating 
>> a v2 for two of them using new names. The third is novel and wasn’t an issue.
>>
>> If so, then I don’t see any problems with adding them.
>>
>> In Him,
>>  DM
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Cyrille
>>> [](mailto:lafricai...@gmail.com)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is my first post:
>>>
>>> Le 05/06/2017 à 09:18, Cyrille a écrit :
>>>
 Hi,
 Working with Catholic bibles I realized that there were some errors in
 the versifications currently proposed.
 I found for all those in which I could verify the following errors:
 Ps 101 8 verses, not 9
 Job 25 6 verses not 14
 Job 27 23  verses not 24
 CT 4 16  verses not 17
 Zach 4 14 verses not 16
 These proposed corrections, moreover, correspond to th canon.h file

 I don't if I need to open an new issue on github or no?
 Best regards, Br Cyrille
>>>
>>> After it I created 3 new v11n. Two the same as the existing, with the
>>> corrections, and with a new name, and a new one that add the extra
>>> versification of Esther in the 10 chapters.
>>> Nothing really complicated, if you agree, just to add it to sources :)
>>>
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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

[David Haslam]

Versifications are merely that. They do not encompass mappings of one v11n to 
another.

Before SWORD began to support av11n, several Bible modules were squeezed into 
the KJV v11n.
Only a few of these have the original references parenthesised at the start of 
verse text.

Best regards,

David

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On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 02:07, John Dudeck  wrote:

> Dominique and all,
>
> I need to understand better what the v11n functionality actually does in 
> Sword.
>
> A good example is the Plague of Frogs in Exodus. In all my English bibles, as 
> well as French Darby, it starts on Ex 8:1. However in all my other French 
> bibles it starts on Ex 7:26-29, and Ex chapter 8 is offset by 4 verses.
>
> I notice that the French Bibles downloadable in AndBible (I looked at 
> FreSegond and F10), follow the KJV versification, rather than the official 
> French versification. In other words, they have been modified and do not 
> follow their canonical form.
>
> So I am frustrated trying to figure out how Sword (and AndBible) handle v11n. 
> I have read the Wiki several times over. It is so sketchy that it's not much 
> help.
>
> I realize that things are in flux in this area. Reportedly AndBible is 
> supposed to already have the French v11n, but the French Bibles that are in 
> the repository follow the KJV, so there is no way to demonstrate what it is 
> doing.
>
> So my question is: How is v11n _supposed_ to work? Does it effectively map 
> every verse between versions having different v11n?
>
> The .h file appears to only list the book order and the number of verses in 
> each chapter. I don't see how this maps verse to verse. It can't possibly 
> just assume that from chapter 1 verse 1 to the end of the book all the verses 
> are contiguous and can be matched 1-to-1 with a different bible, because not 
> all bibles have the same number of verses. In some places, two verse are 
> merged into one, other places one verse is split into two, in Psalms the 
> headers are counted as verse 1 in French but not in English, some Bibles have 
> dropped out certain verses and left gaps in the verse numbering, etc, etc.
>
>> > But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and 
>> > has 4 chapters.
>>
>> In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT 
>> between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
>> This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, 
>> but also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel and Malachi.
>
> Right. I only mentioned just the one example, that was causing osis2mod to 
> hang...it never got as far as Malachi, etc.
>
>> I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the 
>> commentary to match an existing v11n, or you write a new verse map for the 
>> 'Colombe'.
>
> I would be happy to do a verse map, but I am not clear on how the mapping is 
> done.
>
> My current work-around is going to be (as you suggest) to adjust all of the 
> French references in the commentaries to their KJV equivalents. This will not 
> be seen by the user, as it will be done in the  and 
>  tags. I already have code that does this in my 
> conversion scripts. But I am hoping that the forthcoming v11n will allow me 
> to work with the natural v11n of each commentary, and let Sword handle the 
> mapping.
>
> BTW We will be putting three new French bibles into Sword: Parole de Vie, 
> S21, and Nouvelle Edition de Genève (NEG). These are not public domain, and 
> will only be distributed in the scope of our project. I will have to see 
> whether there will be v11n issues with any of these. MacArthur's commentaries 
> use NEG. The Africa Bible Commentary uses Colombe. But we are not likely to 
> put the Colombe Bible into the project, nor NBS nor Semeur, because of cost.
>
>> As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is 
>> based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> --
>> domcox 
>
> John Dudeck  Tel: +1-704-588-9891  Cell: +1-803-504-8065
> john.dud...@sim.orgCharlotte, North Carolina
> --
> When the carols have been stilled, When the star-topped tree is taken down,
> When family and friends are gone home, When we are back to our schedules,
> THE WORK OF CHRISTMAS BEGINS
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> To seek justice and peace for all people,
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Re: [sword-devel] Catholic and Catholic2 versification

[Cyrille]

I'm happy to read on the wiki the addition of the new Catholic v11n. Do
you have an idea when the 1.8.1 version will be released?
I give you a proposition of text for the wiki (need correction of my
English!) because I can't access it, (there is also a mistake
in**"sig*n*ificant" in the wiki):

/Catholic variants, base on the Catholic liturgical translations (based
itself on the neovulgate), of which two correspond to existing Catholic
versifications://
//
//Catholic_lit – like Catholic but with significant differences, Esther
with 10 chapters//
//Catholic2_lit – like Catholic2 but with significant differences,
Esther with 16 chapters//
//Catholic3_lit – a new Catholic versification corresponding to
Catholic1, but where Esther's alternate versification is integrated into
the current 10 chapters, to allow a better reading. This means that the
verses of the chapters numbered with letters are integrated into the
current 10 chapters of Esther./*/
/*
Maybe when the 1.8.1 version will be released, It should be added to
point out that Catholic and Catholic2 v11n are obsolete, in favour of
the new Catholic_lit...

Best regards, Br Cyrille
*//*
Le 29/12/2017 à 17:52, DM Smith a écrit :
> My concern at the time was that once we’ve a v11n that has been released and 
> modules have been built with it we really can’t change it. People keep 
> modules around long after we’ve updated or obsoleted them. We want them to be 
> able to update their front-end without losing functionality of the modules 
> that they have. If we had never released a module with them then they could 
> be fixed.
>
> If I understand Cyrille has addressed those concerns by essentially creating 
> a v2 for two of them using new names. The third is novel and wasn’t an issue.
>
> If so, then I don’t see any problems with adding them.
>
> In Him,
>   DM
>
>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Cyrille  wrote:
>>
>> This is my first post:
>>
>> Le 05/06/2017 à 09:18, Cyrille a écrit :
>>> Hi,
>>> Working with Catholic bibles I realized that there were some errors in
>>> the versifications currently proposed.
>>> I found for all those in which I could verify the following errors:
>>> Ps 101 8 verses, not 9
>>> Job 25 6 verses not 14
>>> Job 27 23  verses not 24
>>> CT 4 16  verses not 17
>>> Zach 4 14 verses not 16
>>> These proposed corrections, moreover, correspond to th canon.h file
>>>
>>> I don't if I need to open an new issue on github or no?
>>> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>>>
>>>
>> After it I created 3 new v11n. Two the same as the existing, with the
>> corrections, and with a new name, and a new one that add the extra
>> versification of Esther in the 10 chapters.
>> Nothing really complicated, if you agree, just to add it to sources :)
>>
>>
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