Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Peter von Kaehne]

  
  
  

Hi Arnaud,It makes sense to understand some things better when seen in history:There are three core projects to CrossWire - libsword,  jsword and the text modules - all others are independent but related users. The SVN site for libsword is the current, not old. It is just that very little changes over long stretches. Libsword is 30 + year old and does its job. Errors and bugs get corrected , big proposals happen once in a long while and then come into the code. Development happens in spurts, once every few years currently - but as users (other projects) are on disparate platforms consensus is needed. Jsword is similarly old, largely feature complete and little changes Two big projects use it and contribute back to it. Substantial internal changes would require consensus across these projects at the very least. Most current development happens in programmes using it and in module development. The GitLab site was created by some of us who create modules for texts which are in the public domain but have little other exposure OSIS - crosswire is the principal user, but as it stands it is an international standard, and not under our control. We do maintain some internal amendments as the standard has not been updated otherwise since creation. Peter
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 From: sword-devel  on behalf of Arnaud Vié Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2024 11:02 pmTo: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ? Thanks Matej for all the information !(and your git mirrror, that will be quite helpful :-) )Is the gitlab project referenced anywhere on the crosswire website ? Because I've been looking all over and only found the svn link ^^'That's exactly the kind of problems I'm talking about when I say the project's visibility could be improved, to make it more possible for new people to get interested and join !I don't have anything against GitLab, but GitHub is by far more popular. People can randomly search for projects on GitHub - but virtually no one searches for projects on GitLab if they don't already know that the project is hosted there. So if we use GitLab for all development, we should at least put some links in the GitHub project description and on the crosswire website to tell people where to go.Regarding the GitLab project, just like pinoaffe I can't see any repository related to the OSIS specification, only bible modules and a "script" repo.And by the way, given the number of module (ie "data") repositories present, another suggestion I can make is to keep the repositories related to core functionality (spec, librairies, etc.) in a separate project, as their contributors will likely be very different. As a developer, finding a code repository in the middle of 6 pages of data repos is not very convenient.In that regards, it could even make sense to keep gitlab for data, and use github for code - or just create a separate gitlab project for code repositories, whatever people prefer.Finally, for jsword, to be honest I'm not really worried about its "organizational" status : after 5 years without breathing it's unambiguously dead.My request is to mostly to try to reach whoever has admin rights on the "crosswire" GitHub project, and see if they would be willing to let me take over jsword to refresh it :-)Le sam. 17 févr 2024 à 21:12, Matěj Cepl  a écrit :On Sat Feb 17, 2024 at 4:46 PM CET, Arnaud Vié wrote:
> I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
> crosswire github project , which is nowadays
> the first contact most young developers will have with these crosswire
> projects.

https://github.com/crosswire is mostly dead. There
is more life (especially for modules) at
https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society and then there is
another GitLab at https://git.crosswire.org/ (for contributors
only).

>    - *Revive the jsword github repository*.

jsword is organizationally in many aspects a separate project from libsword

>       - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.

See on gitlab.

>       - Ideally, I'd also suggest *moving the C++ sword code to github*.
>    Having it only on an old SVN repo
>    , not browsable or searchable
>    online, really harms its visibility. I used a little bit of SVN while in
>    engineering school 12 years ago, but I doubt that most young devs nowadays
>    even know about it.

I don’t even comment on this one any more (just mirror it to
https://git.cepl.eu/cgit/sword/), because where there is no
advice, there is no help.

Best,

Matěj

-- 
http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social
GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8

Why should I travel, when I’m already there?
    -- Bostonian lady, when being asked why she never visited
        other places than Boston

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Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Arnaud Vié]

Thanks Matej for all the information !
(and your git mirrror, that will be quite helpful :-) )

Is the gitlab project referenced anywhere on the crosswire website ?
Because I've been looking all over and only found the svn link ^^'
That's exactly the kind of problems I'm talking about when I say the
project's visibility could be improved, to make it more possible for new
people to get interested and join !
I don't have anything against GitLab, but GitHub is by far more popular.
People can randomly search for projects on GitHub - but virtually no one
searches for projects on GitLab if they don't already know that the project
is hosted there. So if we use GitLab for all development, we should at
least put some links in the GitHub project description and on the crosswire
website to tell people where to go.


Regarding the GitLab project, just like pinoaffe I can't see any repository
related to the OSIS specification, only bible modules and a "script" repo.


And by the way, given the number of module (ie "data") repositories
present, another suggestion I can make is to keep the repositories related
to core functionality (spec, librairies, etc.) in a separate project, as
their contributors will likely be very different. As a developer, finding a
code repository in the middle of 6 pages of data repos is not very
convenient.
In that regards, it could even make sense to keep gitlab for data, and use
github for code - or just create a separate gitlab project for code
repositories, whatever people prefer.


Finally, for jsword, to be honest I'm not really worried about its
"organizational" status : after 5 years without breathing it's
unambiguously dead.
My request is to mostly to try to reach whoever has admin rights on the
"crosswire" GitHub project, and see if they would be willing to let me take
over jsword to refresh it :-)


Le sam. 17 févr. 2024 à 21:12, Matěj Cepl  a écrit :

> On Sat Feb 17, 2024 at 4:46 PM CET, Arnaud Vié wrote:
> > I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
> > crosswire github project , which is
> nowadays
> > the first contact most young developers will have with these crosswire
> > projects.
>
> https://github.com/crosswire is mostly dead. There
> is more life (especially for modules) at
> https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society and then there is
> another GitLab at https://git.crosswire.org/ (for contributors
> only).
>
> >- *Revive the jsword github repository*.
>
> jsword is organizationally in many aspects a separate project from
> libsword.
>
> >   - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.
>
> See on gitlab.
>
> >   - Ideally, I'd also suggest *moving the C++ sword code to github*.
> >Having it only on an old SVN repo
> >, not browsable or searchable
> >online, really harms its visibility. I used a little bit of SVN while
> in
> >engineering school 12 years ago, but I doubt that most young devs
> nowadays
> >even know about it.
>
> I don’t even comment on this one any more (just mirror it to
> https://git.cepl.eu/cgit/sword/), because where there is no
> advice, there is no help.
>
> Best,
>
> Matěj
>
> --
> http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social
> GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
>
> Why should I travel, when I’m already there?
> -- Bostonian lady, when being asked why she never visited
> other places than Boston
>
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> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
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Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[pinoaffe]

Matěj Cepl  writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> On Sat Feb 17, 2024 at 4:46 PM CET, Arnaud Vié wrote:
>> I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
>> crosswire github project , which is nowadays
>> the first contact most young developers will have with these crosswire
>> projects.
>
> https://github.com/crosswire is mostly dead. There
> is more life (especially for modules) at
> https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society and then there is
> another GitLab at https://git.crosswire.org/ (for contributors
> only).

>>   - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.
> See on gitlab.
I couldn't find anything that looks like the OSIS spec on the public
gitlab, so I'm guessing this is on the contributor-only gitlab?  If so,
how does one get access to it?

And how could I get access to the wiki?

Kind regards,
pinoaffe
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Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Matěj Cepl]

On Sat Feb 17, 2024 at 4:46 PM CET, Arnaud Vié wrote:
> I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
> crosswire github project , which is nowadays
> the first contact most young developers will have with these crosswire
> projects.

https://github.com/crosswire is mostly dead. There
is more life (especially for modules) at
https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society and then there is
another GitLab at https://git.crosswire.org/ (for contributors
only).

>- *Revive the jsword github repository*.

jsword is organizationally in many aspects a separate project from libsword.

>   - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.

See on gitlab.

>   - Ideally, I'd also suggest *moving the C++ sword code to github*.
>Having it only on an old SVN repo
>, not browsable or searchable
>online, really harms its visibility. I used a little bit of SVN while in
>engineering school 12 years ago, but I doubt that most young devs nowadays
>even know about it.

I don’t even comment on this one any more (just mirror it to
https://git.cepl.eu/cgit/sword/), because where there is no
advice, there is no help.

Best,

Matěj

-- 
http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social
GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
 
Why should I travel, when I’m already there?
-- Bostonian lady, when being asked why she never visited
other places than Boston



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[sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Arnaud Vié]

Hi everyone,

Having dived into the whole crosswire ecosystem recently, I'm at the same
time impressed at the quality of the tools provided (in particular the OSIS
standard and the JSword lib, as I've been working in Java), and worried by
what I perceive as a lack of dynamism around it's development and
difficulty to contribute.

By "lack of dynamism" I of course don't mean to criticise the time anyone
spends (as we contribute to a free ecosystem, we all have lives keeping us
busy elsewhere), but rather to highlight how rough it is for external
enthusiastic people to join.
For example, I'd like to contribute evolutions to the OSIS standard around
versification systems, but I have no idea where to make such proposals, as
there is only a mailing list dead since 2015
, a few wiki pages
 and a few downloadable documents
 which are supposedly the latest version.

I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
crosswire github project , which is nowadays
the first contact most young developers will have with these crosswire
projects.

I'd like to propose a few changes, get your opinions, and volunteer to
execute them if everyone agrees.

   - *Revive the jsword github repository*.
   That includes
  - Backporting the relevant changes from the andbible fork
  
  (excluding android-specific stuff - which I already mostly removed in my
  last PR there).
  - Setting up a release process to publish the jar on a maven
  repository.
  - Setting up a clear branching model and writing clear contribution
  guidelines.
  - Having a team of several people familiar with Java development to
  review PRs or answer questions in the issue tracker. I obviously
volunteer,
  but more people is always the best.

  - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.
   Must contain :
  - In Git, the OSIS XSD schema, and the functional specification
  (basically, the contents of the current manual) in markdown or asciidoc
  format.
  So that contributions to the standard may be opened as pull requests,
  reviewed, potentially stored as separate branches, etc.
  - A wiki tab where all relevant OSIS-related resources from the
  crosswire wiki should be copied.

  - Ideally, I'd also suggest *moving the C++ sword code to github*.
   Having it only on an old SVN repo
   , not browsable or searchable
   online, really harms its visibility. I used a little bit of SVN while in
   engineering school 12 years ago, but I doubt that most young devs nowadays
   even know about it.

But for this last C++ part, I suspect it has bigger impact on current
developers, since Troy is still actively developing it and using the Jira
bugtracker for this part - so there is no urgent need to change.
I'm really more worried about the jsword repo (it breaks my heart to see it
dead since 2019) and having a visible and versioned location for the OSIS
standard.

Please let me know your thoughts !
And whoever is currently admin of the github project, would you be willing
to grant me some permissions on the jsword repo and a new "osis-spec" repo
to start setting up all of this ?

Regards,

Arnaud Vié
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