from:"Daniel Owens"

Re: [sword-devel] OSHB module

2024-03-15 Thread Daniel Owens

I am responsible for the OSHB module. If an official solution is 
reached, I am happy to update the source files and submit for a module 
update. I just did what worked best in the greatest number of 
front-ends. It was a pragmatic decision. Unfortunately, Xiphos got left 
out.


Daniel

On 3/14/24 7:03 PM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote:
Right now, all modules on eBible.org force Strong's numbers to be G or 
H followed by 4 or 5 digits, with leading zeroes as necessary to make 
4 digits. The reason for this is that Paratext and the DBL software 
choke on any other format. The decision was forced on me, really.


Ideally, I would consider the Real Solution to be that any process 
that READS Strong's numbers should tolerate the presence or absence of 
leading zeroes. Indeed, the G or H, if missing, should be inferred 
from the Testament in which it is found. (Tagging of the longer Esther 
and Daniel should require an explicit G or H.) But if you write 
Strong's numbers, maximum compatibility would come from sticking to 
the Paratext/DBL pattern. Maximum encoding efficiency, of course, 
would be in the other direction, stripping out the redundant leading 
zeroes and implied G or H would save space, but at this point, I think 
maximum compatibility is more important.


Right now, asking for all modules to be rebuilt one way or another is 
a really big ask. It is probably easier to preprocess all Strong's 
numbers to make the format consistent within the back end. That way a 
string comparison in the search should work just fine. We would just 
have to decide what the search format should be. G or H should be 
supplied to disambiguate when necessary, and leading zeroes either 
supplied or stripped. Make sense?


Of course, if a strong consensus on Strong's number formatting could 
be obtained and manifested in code in all relevant Sword Project front 
and back end software, I could go either way. My Bible translation 
source would still have the Paratext/DBL format, but stripping out 
leading zeroes in writing OSIS files is not hard. For now, though, I 
must agree with Karl about the probability of his trademarked Real 
Solution coming to pass. Sigh.


On 3/14/24 11:23, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
Quite honestly, the Real Solution™ to this problem is to bite the 
bullet, make a concrete decision that Strong's numbers are to be 
encoded in exactly one way, and re-work all existing modules to 
conform to that standard. Personally, I advocate that such a standard 
would stipulate Strong's numbers to be encoded in minimal (natural) 
digits: Encoding an OT reference as "1" means a Heb Strong's 
dictionary key of "1" and an NT "1401" means a Grk Strong's 
dictionary key of "01401", that is, zeroes to create dictionary 
module keys are prepended to natural numbers to fill exactly 5 digits.


I've never bothered to attempt a final fix to this problem in Xiphos 
for exactly the reason that, no matter which direction I might take, 
it will be an unreliable hack; that in turn is because the very 
concept of a leading '0' as a weak discriminant between Heb and Grk 
Strong's numbers is itself an unreliable hack. Whenever the 
subsequent conceptual change came along, to distinguish Heb/Grk 
numbers according to a leading H or G (that is, lucene search using 
e.g. "lemma:G1401"), /that/ was the point at which the 
leading-zero-encoding nonsense should have been forced into the trash 
bin.


It was not, and here we are.

Probability of the Real Solution™ coming to pass: Vanishingly close 
to zero.


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mljohnson.org  • eBible.org 
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Re: [sword-devel] vietccmnct

2022-08-11 Thread Daniel Owens


Dear Fr Cyrill,

I was the one to create the module. I will have to see if I still have 
the files. At the time I created the module, DC versification was not 
yet supported. It would be good to recreate the Bible module as well, to 
include all the books, if you have time for that.


Daniel

On 28/07/2022 14:31, Fr Cyrille wrote:

Hello,
Someone in the list have a contact with the owner of this module: 
vietccmnct?
The notes are from the brothers Hurault, well known in France for 
their very very good notes. I'm interesting because it's probably a 
Catholic bible, but the DC books are missing. I'm interesting to 
rebuild the module.

If someone can get me in touch with the owner I would be very happy!

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Re: [sword-devel] OSHB 2.1: valid content for the lemma attribute ?

2020-12-29 Thread Daniel Owens


Good question. Looking at their readme file, this bit is relevant:

*
*TOTHT - Tyndale OT Hebrew Tagged text 
<https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data>*
The Leningrad codex based on Westminster via OpenScriptures, with full 
morphological and semantic tags for all words, prefixes and suffixes. 
Semantic tags use the extended Strongs linked to BDB by OS, is 
backwardly compatible with simple Strongs tags and includes all affixes 
(as defined in TBESH).


*

If OS = Open Scriptures, then perhaps they got their Strongs linkings 
from us. That is at least plausible.


Daniel

On 12/28/20 8:15 PM, David Haslam wrote:

David,

How do the Open Scriptures extensions to Strong’s numbers relate (if 
at all) to the augmented Strong’s numbers documented by Tyndale House, 
Cambridge and implemented in STEP Bible ?


https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data<https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data>

Best regards,

David Haslam

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile


On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:54, pierre amadio <mailto:amadio.pie...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello.

I received the following feedback from Daniel Owens:

#
When creating the OSHB, we ran in to the problem that Strong's numbers
did not have a place for a number of prefixed lemma, including the
inseparable prepositions and the vav conjunction. So we created some
additional Strong's "numbers" to be able to mark up such lemma. You
will notice that in the morph attribute, there are two parsings, "HR"
for "Hebrew Preposition" and "HNcfsa" for "Hebrew Noun common feminine
singular absolute". The preposition is the prefixed bet (בְּ). I hope
that answers your question.
#

I understand the logic behind the choice, but it looks to me this is
is not behaving as expected with the Sword engine.

Hebrew can express in a single word things that require several words
in english.
In my previous mail mentioning genesis 1:1 bereshit (in a beginning)
is made out of 2 semantic units be/reshit:

Excerpt from morphhb/oxlos-import/wlc.txt (where i think is the "raw"
text used to build the module) from
https://github.com/openscriptures/morphhb
Gen 1:1.1 7225 בְּ/רֵאשִׁ֖ית

Here we can see that / is used as a separator (or is it a reverse \ ? 
:-) )


Let's look at an example with 3 elements, from genesis 12:1 in "Now
the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country"
the "out of your country" is a single word: from/earth-land/yours 
me-artze-ra

Excerpt from morphbb's wlc.txt
Gen 12:1.7 776 מֵ/אַרְצְ/ךָ֥

If i look at this word with
diatheke -b OSHB -o avlmn -f OSIS -k Genesis 12:1

OSHB 1.4
מֵאַרְצְךָ
OSHB 2.1
מֵאַרְצְךָ

I see several problem:

1) As with bereshit (in a beginning), the strong number for the prefix
is not a number and does not exist in the strong dictionary.
This will probably result in unexpected behaviour from the frontend
trying to show strong's number definitions.

2) with genesis example 12:1, the resulting xml node mention only 2
elements (from/earth) מֵ/אַרְצְ and omit the "yours".
I would have expected 3 entry מֵ/אַרְצְ/ךָ֥ in order to be consistent
with how things are displayed with bereshit.

I try to see if this had an effect with diatheke, looking for strong
entry H0776:

OSHB 1.4
/usr/local/sword/bin/diatheke -b OSHB -s lucene -r Genesis -k 
"lemma:H0776"

252 matches
/usr/local/sword/bin/diatheke -b OSHB -s attribute -r Genesis -k
"Word//Lemma./H0776/"
292 matches

OSHB 2.1
/usr/local/sword/bin/diatheke -b OSHB -s lucene -r Genesis -k 
"lemma:H0776"

252 matches
/usr/local/sword/bin/diatheke -b OSHB -s attribute -r Genesis -k
"Word//Lemma./H0776/"
252 matches

It looks like diatheke still finds the entry, now, what i do not
understand is why the attribute search with version 1.4 find 292
matches instead of 252 (which all the other research seems to agree
on).
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[sword-devel] SWORD and Tooltips

2020-04-27 Thread Daniel Owens

Does anyone know whether the Bible Tool can be used to create tooltips 
that show the text of a verse on a website, if the verse is a link with 
a valid @osisRef in it? I am thinking of something similar to what 
Logos's RefTagger does, except using SWORD.


I ask because I have the Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon. I am working 
with someone who is a Chromebook user to edit that lexicon to prepare a 
Greek lexicon in Vietnamese. We have a little viewer at 
http://vanphamhatgiong.com/abbott-smith/viewer/. Click on a Scripture 
reference, and it will take you to the STEP Bible. So far so good. But I 
would like to be able to hover on the verse (not click on it) and see 
the text in Greek.


If nothing like that exists, that would be an answer too.

Daniel


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Re: [sword-devel] Bishop 1.4.0 and SWORD Utility Modules

2020-03-19 Thread Daniel Owens

Not sure if I love it, but Google's Noto fonts are designed to handle 
many different languages. Noto Serif would not be a bad choice. We use 
it to publish books in Vietnamese. It is published under the SIL Open 
Font License. See https://www.google.com/get/noto/. I believe it is also 
converted to a web font 
already:https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Noto+Serif?selection.family=Noto+Serif. 



Daniel

On 3/20/20 9:41 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Dear all,

I'm wrapping up the next release of Bishop and would like to possibly
change the default reading font.

Does anyone have a special place in their heart for a favorite font they
would recommend?  It should be freely usable, have a good coverage of
Unicode and preferably already converted to a web font.

For other frontend developers, this next release of Bishop uses a new
feature of the upcoming SWORD release called "Utility" modules.  These
are modules which frontends can download, update, and remove with
InstallMgr, like any other module, but they are not intended to be shown
to end users.  They contain utility data for implementing frontend
features.  The specific utility modules used by this new release of
Bishop are the two Eusebian Canon modules which provide data for
creating parallel Gospel displays.  SWORD will eventually hide these
modules from the normal modules list, so they won't show in existing
frontends when installed, but for now trunk still shows them under a
category "Utility".

To see what you can do with this Eusebian utility module set, a
pre-release of Bishop can be installed from here:

http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-1.3.901.apk
bishop-1.3.901.apk size: 8858668 md5: 8eaf67ad5eb7d205178638dcbef418b7

You'll need to turn on the "Show Parallel Gospels" setting.

Or you can have a look at SWORDWeb here:

http://www2.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?key=Matt.3

You'll notice the Eusebian numbers in the left margin.  Click on one to
see the Gospel parallels for that passage using the currently selected
Bible.

You'll also see a slider at the top of the parallel Gospels page which
allows adjusting context before and after.

The Utility Modules concept brings a solution to the common problem
we've had when we'd like to include a dataset with SWORD for
implementing features in a frontend, but not have the module displayed
to the end user.  We've never had a standard way to include these,
update these, etc.  We've hacked a few datasets into the engine (e.g.,
the "locales" locale for looking up internationalized locale names), but
none of these are good implementations nor were standardized ways to
include or update these datasets.  I am hoping this Eusebian module set
will be just the first of many "Utility" modules we make available in
the coming months and years.  We should start a wiki page where
developers can learn about Utility modules which are available.  I'll be
sure to include a "how to use" primer in the "About" section of these
first two.

Hope everyone is staying healthy.  God's blessings,

Troy


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[sword-devel] Help in creating a TEI lexdict module, perhaps with encoding problem

2020-02-10 Thread Daniel Owens

I am working on a Vietnamese translation of Robinson's morphological 
codes, and I am running into a problem. I prepared the module in TEI and 
am able to create the module without difficulty. However, when I open it 
in several front-ends, the text is garbled, like it isn't in UTF8 (the 
source file is UTF8).


Copying and pasting from Xiphos, this is what I get:

[*Robinson bằng tiếng Việt*]
Tá»« loáº¡i: Äáº¡i tá»« khÃ´ng xÃ¡c Ä‘á»‹nh
Thá»ƒ: Danh cÃ¡ch
Sá»‘: Sá»‘ Ãt
Giá»‘ng: Trung tÃnh

The content within the brackets is correct, which indicates that the 
input text is in UTF8, but the rest is not correct. So I am puzzled and 
hoping for help. It's been awhile since I created a module, so I 
probably missed something. Is there an option I am missing in tei2mod?


This is the command I used: tei2mod ./robinson-vi robinson-vi.tei.xml -z

Daniel


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Re: [sword-devel] ETS/IBR/SBL

2018-11-12 Thread Daniel Owens

Troy,

Want to grab lunch tomorrow, Tuesday? 

Daniel
630-229-1499

> On 12 Nov 2018, at 3:54 PM, Troy A. Griffitts  wrote:
> 
> Happy week before Thanksgiving!
> 
> I am scheduled to head out to Denver today for the usual cluster of annual 
> meetings before Thanksgiving. If anyone else plans to be in Denver for the 
> annual meetings of:
> 
> Evangelical Theological Society
> Institute for Biblical Research
> Society for Biblical Literature
> 
> or any of the other groups having their meetings there this week, and you'd 
> like to have lunch, please let me know.
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> Troy
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [sword-devel] Strong's Numbers Standards

2017-09-27 Thread Daniel Owens

As a module creator, this has been a source of untold hours of
frustration and experimentation in order to discover what works.

From memory, the most widely supported format in practice is to have G
or H followed by a padded number.

It would be ideal if all the front-ends supported the same format so
modules would work the same way everywhere.

Daniel

On 9/28/17 7:11 AM, DM Smith wrote:
I’m curious whether your question is as a module creator or otherwise.
Are you creating a Strong’s module or a module having Strong’s numbers?

The KJV module uses Strong’s numbers of the form G975, that is, a G or
H followed by an unpadded number. That’s the current standard.

There’s a new setting for dictionary modules having keys that
beginning with numbers: StrongsPadding=true|false
When it is true, it will pad a key beginning with numbers with the
assumption that it follows the old logic of padded numbers.

The reason for padded numbers is that keys are sorted by a strict
ascii text collation and the desire is for keys to be in numerical order.

You can use ld2imp to dump a dictionary and examine its keys.

A front end needs to normalize a search request the same as the module
it is searching against.

I don’t know how SWORD does it but JSword examines an arbitrary key
from the Strong’s module and establishes a pattern based upon that. It
allows for keys to start with a G or H and be 0 padded or not. Then it
normalizes the search request according to that pattern.

Hope this helps a bit,
DM Smith

On Sep 27, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Gary Holmlund > wrote:

I don't see anywhere the document suggest not having the zeros. I do
see several examples with zeros between the letter and the digits.

H0776
H01961
H08414
H0922

Even if the document had suggested no zeros, we have documents
(MLStrong, Dodson) that do have these zeros. If I have "G32" how do I
know to change it to "G0032" to lookup in these documents?

Gary

On 09/27/2017 12:12 AM, Michael H wrote:
STEP suggests that leading zeros do not belong in between the letter
and the digits.

https://stepweb.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TYNSTEP/pages/36569098/OSIS+samples#OSISsamples-OSISofaBiblewithstrongnumbers(ESV)

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Gary Holmlund > wrote:

I am trying to understand the various forms that Strong's
references can have. Let me explain with an example from
BibleTime when we hover over a word and automatically display
the Strong's reference text.

In the new testament (KJV and ESV2011) the Strong's reference
for "angel" is "G32". In BibleTime the "G" is removed leaving
"32" as the reference to lookup. This works for StrongsGreek,
StringsRealGreek, and AbbottSmithStrongs. It does not work for
MLStrong and Dodson.

In the books StrongsGreek, StringsRealGreek, and
AbbottSmithStrongs the reference is "00032". In MLStrong and
Dodson the reference is "G0032". So, I find that "32" will work
as a key when the book reference is "00032", but "32" or "G32"
won't work if the book reference is "G0032"

If I knew that Strong's references were either "G" or
"n" I could pad zeros in the right place when a shorter
Strong's reference needs to be looked up. Or is there some other
method we can use?

PS. I am told that Xiphos has the same problem.

Gary Holmlund

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Re: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

2016-01-21 Thread Daniel Owens

Thanks, DM. Maybe I will get to it sometime soon.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 6:58 PM, DM Smith wrote:

Thanks for the info. I like your work and think it should be a module. I’ve got
a few higher priorities right now, so it’ll be a few months before I can even
consider it.

On Jan 13, 2016, at 9:04 PM, Daniel Owens <dhow...@pmbx.net> wrote:

DM,

I sent a response but I used the wrong email address. Here is my initial
response:

***
This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase
down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling
attention to this, DM.

Now the source file has many corrections to the markup and data
(https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/abbott-smith.tei.xml).
So I suggest a new module needs to be made. I am having trouble validating on
my Mac, but must have to do with my setup. If someone can run xmllint and fix
any validation problems, I would appreciate that.

I would also appreciate someone creating a new module. It has been a long time
since I have been able to successfully compile and test a TEI module. If
someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be grateful because the TEI
lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries to me.

***

To answer your question about the NT occurrences, we added this to make the
source file more useful for things like generating vocabulary lists, etc. It
can safely be removed using XSLT for the purpose of creating a SWORD module. In
the Github repository you can see the scripts I created years ago to create a
SWORD module. I suspect you could cook up something better off the top of your
head, but feel free to have a look.

You can also safely add the zero filling to the Strong's numbers. But the
source file is set up with the actual Greek lexeme as the entry @n because it
is not Strongs. And that is how it should be. I wish the engine could deal
properly with this. The Strong's numbers are a sort of legacy hack to support
texts that are tagged using Strong's numbers. But now we have a better text
that is not tagged with Strong's (the morphgnt-sblgnt module). Other texts
should be deprecated and lexicon modules keyed to Greek lexemes.

It is one of my frustrations that the Sword engine has never adequately
supported real Greek lexemes, as you find in the morphgnt-sblgnt module. The
Abbott-Smith module has Strong's numbers only because that is the quickest hack
to connecting words in legacy texts to real lexicon entries. But it should not
always be so. We should be moving away from Strong's numbers and toward
something more up-to-date. I believe Troy worked on this issue at one time (we
sat down at SBL in 2011 to do this), but I have never seen it fully supported
by the frontends.

Anyway, personal rant against Strong's numbers aside, I would love to see this
module working in Sword, so if anyone can get it going, I would be super
grateful. Perhaps an initial module needs to be created just with Strong's
numbers and then an experimental module with the real Greek to provide
something for developers to work with.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 8:42 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Based on your and Karl’s reply, I’m going to move it to the experimental part
of the repository.

Best I can tell, it doesn’t work because the Strong’s number isn’t zero filled
and I’ve not found any support for Strong’s numbers that aren’t padded.

To rebuild the module, we have to change the Strong’s numbers from G1 to G0001,
G2 to G0002 and so forth. It was a nice idea to have the Strong’s numbers and
the Greek words as separate entry. It’s not practical, especially since they
are fully accented.

To create a module from the TEI source (Thank you Daniel for the work you’ve put into it. I see that
you are a major contributor.) one needs to cut the … out of the file into
it’s own file, then run that through tei2mod. There’s a bug in all of the TEI dictionary modules where
the is not in the module, but is. tei2mod should have kept both or
dropped both.

If I were to make the module, I’d use xslt to transform the xml. The one thing that I think
is missing in the entry is the word. It is represented in the element, but it
is not the same. I also find it odd that there is a leading with the number of
occurrences in the NT. I’ve not looked at the pdf to see where that came from.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:14 PM, Daniel Owens <dcowen...@gmail.com> wrote:

This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase
down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling
attention to this, DM.

However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compi

Re: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

2016-01-13 Thread Daniel Owens

This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to
chase down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks
for calling attention to this, DM.

However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully
compile and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do
this, I would be grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle
is a series of mysteries to me.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 7:53 AM, DM Smith wrote:
Well, I’ve created a new Windows 7 VM and installed the KJV and also
AbbottSmith using The SWORD Project for Windows (BibleCS) Install
Manager. I’m not able to get the module to work in BibleCS.

As far as I can tell it loads but doesn’t work in Xiphos. I show
Strong’s in the KJV. Click on a number, any number and I get the same
entry. As far as I can tell it is the last entry. Once I get there,
clicking the up and down arrows on the dictionary will make the
program crash. (I can deliberately, reliably repeat the crash.) The
dropdown list contains >, G1, G1, G1, …., which is wrong. If I
manually search for a number by prefixing it with a G, I’ll get the
entry, indicating it is linked.

I’m running the Windows version that I just downloaded from the
xiphos.org site.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Peter Von Kaehne > wrote:

I have just now installed it on Xiphos and set up as my strong
dictionary for NT. It works perfectly well as far as I can tell

Peter

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2016 um 20:16 Uhr
Von: "DM Smith" >
An: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum"
>

Betreff: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

The AbbottSmith module has excellent content. I’m having some
problems getting it to work in any SWORD or a JSword front-end (due
to bugs in JSword).

I’m wondering how it is supposed to work in a SWORD front-end.

It is keyed to Strong’s numbers. Each Strong’s number begins with
the letter G and is followed by the number, but not padded. These
are sorted as:

*blank key*

G1
G10
G100
G1000
G1001
….
G2
G20
G200
….
and so forth.

(The first two entries in the modules are bugs, probably in the
module making utility. But that is another issue.)

Each of these entries is linked to the entry for the corresponding
Greek word. These are fully accented words. In the index they are
sorted according to their upper case representation. They follow the
entries beginning with G.

In my Windows VM, I’m not able to get the KJV to show up in either
Xiphos or The SWORD Project for Windows. (Others have reported this
problem. And I’m not interested in “going there.”) As such I can’t
determine if I were to use AbbottSmith as a Greek Strong’s
Dictionary how it would or if it’d work.

In Him,
DM Smith
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Re: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

2016-01-13 Thread Daniel Owens

DM,

For some reason my emails are not coming through. Here is my initial
response:

***
This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to
chase down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks
for calling attention to this, DM.

Now the source file has many corrections to the markup and data
(https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/abbott-smith.tei.xml).
So I suggest a new module needs to be made. I am having trouble
validating on my Mac, but must have to do with my setup. If someone can
run xmllint and fix any validation problems, I would appreciate that.

I would also appreciate someone creating a new module. It has been a
long time since I have been able to successfully compile and test a TEI
module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be
grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of
mysteries to me.

***

To answer your question about the NT occurrences, we added this to make
the source file more useful for things like generating vocabulary lists,
etc. It can safely be removed using XSLT for the purpose of creating a
SWORD module. In the Github repository you can see the scripts I created
years ago to create a SWORD module. I suspect you could cook up
something better off the top of your head, but feel free to have a look.

You can also safely add the zero filling to the Strong's numbers. But
the source file is set up with the actual Greek lexeme as the entry @n
because it is not Strongs. And that is how it should be. I wish the
engine could deal properly with this. The Strong's numbers are a sort of
legacy hack to support texts that are tagged using Strong's numbers. But
now we have a better text that is not tagged with Strong's (the
morphgnt-sblgnt module). Other texts should be deprecated and lexicon
modules keyed to Greek lexemes.

It is one of my frustrations that the Sword engine has never adequately
supported real Greek lexemes, as you find in the morphgnt-sblgnt module.
The Abbott-Smith module has Strong's numbers only because that is the
quickest hack to connecting words in legacy texts to real lexicon
entries. But it should not always be so. We should be moving away from
Strong's numbers and toward something more up-to-date. I believe Troy
worked on this issue at one time (we sat down at SBL in 2011 to do
this), but I have never seen it fully supported by the frontends.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 8:42 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Based on your and Karl’s reply, I’m going to move it to the experimental part
of the repository.

Best I can tell, it doesn’t work because the Strong’s number isn’t zero filled
and I’ve not found any support for Strong’s numbers that aren’t padded.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:14 PM, Daniel Owens <dcowen...@gmail.com> wrote:

This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase
down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling
attention to this, DM.

However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compile
and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be
grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries
to me.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 7:53 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Well, I’ve created a new Windows 7 VM and installed the KJV and also
AbbottSmith using The SWORD Project for Windows (BibleCS) Install Manager. I’m
not able to get the module to work in BibleCS.

Re: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

2016-01-13 Thread Daniel Owens

DM,

I sent a response but I used the wrong email address. Here is my initial
response:

***
This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to
chase down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks
for calling attention to this, DM.

Now the source file has many corrections to the markup and data
(https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/abbott-smith.tei.xml).
So I suggest a new module needs to be made. I am having trouble
validating on my Mac, but must have to do with my setup. If someone can
run xmllint and fix any validation problems, I would appreciate that.

I would also appreciate someone creating a new module. It has been a
long time since I have been able to successfully compile and test a TEI
module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be
grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of
mysteries to me.

***

To answer your question about the NT occurrences, we added this to make
the source file more useful for things like generating vocabulary lists,
etc. It can safely be removed using XSLT for the purpose of creating a
SWORD module. In the Github repository you can see the scripts I created
years ago to create a SWORD module. I suspect you could cook up
something better off the top of your head, but feel free to have a look.

You can also safely add the zero filling to the Strong's numbers. But
the source file is set up with the actual Greek lexeme as the entry @n
because it is not Strongs. And that is how it should be. I wish the
engine could deal properly with this. The Strong's numbers are a sort of
legacy hack to support texts that are tagged using Strong's numbers. But
now we have a better text that is not tagged with Strong's (the
morphgnt-sblgnt module). Other texts should be deprecated and lexicon
modules keyed to Greek lexemes.

It is one of my frustrations that the Sword engine has never adequately
supported real Greek lexemes, as you find in the morphgnt-sblgnt module.
The Abbott-Smith module has Strong's numbers only because that is the
quickest hack to connecting words in legacy texts to real lexicon
entries. But it should not always be so. We should be moving away from
Strong's numbers and toward something more up-to-date. I believe Troy
worked on this issue at one time (we sat down at SBL in 2011 to do
this), but I have never seen it fully supported by the frontends.

Anyway, personal rant against Strong's numbers aside, I would love to
see this module working in Sword, so if anyone can get it going, I would
be super grateful. Perhaps an initial module needs to be created just
with Strong's numbers and then an experimental module with the real
Greek to provide something for developers to work with.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 8:42 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Based on your and Karl’s reply, I’m going to move it to the experimental part
of the repository.

Best I can tell, it doesn’t work because the Strong’s number isn’t zero filled
and I’ve not found any support for Strong’s numbers that aren’t padded.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:14 PM, Daniel Owens <dcowen...@gmail.com> wrote:

This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase
down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling
attention to this, DM.

However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compile
and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be
grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries
to me.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 7:53 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Well, I’ve created a new Windows 7 VM and installed the KJV and also
AbbottSmith using The SWORD Project for Windows (B

Re: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

2016-01-13 Thread Daniel Owens

One more thing: I created markup instructions for contributors to the
Abbott-Smith project. You can get a quick overview of how we have marked
it up:
https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/Instructions_for_Contributors.md.

One other thing you are likely to want to remove is . This is mean
to preserve page numbering in case someone wants to create a module that
is easy to cite. But that is a lower priority for me.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 8:42 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Based on your and Karl’s reply, I’m going to move it to the experimental part
of the repository.

Best I can tell, it doesn’t work because the Strong’s number isn’t zero filled
and I’ve not found any support for Strong’s numbers that aren’t padded.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:14 PM, Daniel Owens <dcowen...@gmail.com> wrote:

This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase
down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling
attention to this, DM.

However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compile
and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be
grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries
to me.

Daniel

On 1/14/16 7:53 AM, DM Smith wrote:

Well, I’ve created a new Windows 7 VM and installed the KJV and also
AbbottSmith using The SWORD Project for Windows (BibleCS) Install Manager. I’m
not able to get the module to work in BibleCS.

As far as I can tell it loads but doesn’t work in Xiphos. I show Strong’s in the
KJV. Click on a number, any number and I get the same entry. As far as I can tell
it is the last entry. Once I get there, clicking the up and down arrows on the
dictionary will make the program crash. (I can deliberately, reliably repeat the
crash.) The dropdown list contains >, G1, G1, G1, …., which is wrong. If I
manually search for a number by prefixing it with a G, I’ll get the entry,
indicating it is linked.

I’m running the Windows version that I just downloaded from the xiphos.org
<http://xiphos.org> site.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Peter Von Kaehne <ref...@gmx.net
<mailto:ref...@gmx.net>> wrote:

I have just now installed it on Xiphos and set up as my strong dictionary for
NT. It works perfectly well as far as I can tell

Peter

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2016 um 20:16 Uhr
Von: "DM Smith" <dmsm...@crosswire.org <mailto:dmsm...@crosswire.org>>
An: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel@crosswire.org
<mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org>>
Betreff: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

The AbbottSmith module has excellent content. I’m having some problems getting
it to work in any SWORD or a JSword front-end (due to bugs in JSword).

I’m wondering how it is supposed to work in a SWORD front-end.

It is keyed to Strong’s numbers. Each Strong’s number begins with the letter G
and is followed by the number, but not padded. These are sorted as:
*blank key*
G1
G10
G100
G1000
G1001
….
G2
G20
G200
….
and so forth.

(The first two entries in the modules are bugs, probably in the module making
utility. But that is another issue.)

Each of these entries is linked to the entry for the corresponding Greek word.
These are fully accented words. In the index they are sorted according to their
upper case representation. They follow the entries beginning with G.

In my Windows VM, I’m not able to get the KJV to show up in either Xiphos or
The SWORD Project for Windows. (Others have reported this problem. And I’m not
interested in “going there.”) As such I can’t determine if I were to use
AbbottSmith as a Greek Strong’s Dictionary how it would or if it’d work.

In Hi

Re: [sword-devel] Digital Bible Library

2015-02-07 Thread Daniel Owens

Excellent. I will get back to you when I can get UBS to give permission. 
I have contact with the person in charge in the region, but does the DBL 
handle permissions now?


Daniel

On 2/6/15 1:39 PM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote:
I have an ETEN DBL library card as a publisher (eBible.org). If you 
can get UBS to give permission to eBible.org and CrossWire to 
distribute those (or any) Bibles, I would be happy to retrieve them, 
convert to OSIS (and USFM, if you prefer), and pass them to you to 
make a module with them.


On 02/05/2015 06:45 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:
I have been advocating for the UBS to give permission to CrossWire to 
distribute several Vietnamese-language texts, available from their 
Digital Bible Library. Has anyone on this list worked with them to 
create modules?


They list technical requirements at 
http://www.digitalbiblelibrary.org/info/faq#whatarethetechnicalrequirementsalibrarycardholdermustmeet. 
I think their goal is to discourage fly-by-night folks, but I am not 
sure my understanding of all these technologies is sufficient to meet 
their requirements. I am willing to do some of the leg-work to create 
a module (have done it many times), but it would make the best sense 
for someone at CrossWire to apply for a digital library card to get a 
contract with them.


Is anyone willing to represent CrossWire to do this?

Daniel

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[sword-devel] Digital Bible Library

2015-02-05 Thread Daniel Owens

I have been advocating for the UBS to give permission to CrossWire to 
distribute several Vietnamese-language texts, available from their 
Digital Bible Library. Has anyone on this list worked with them to 
create modules?


They list technical requirements at 
http://www.digitalbiblelibrary.org/info/faq#whatarethetechnicalrequirementsalibrarycardholdermustmeet. 
I think their goal is to discourage fly-by-night folks, but I am not 
sure my understanding of all these technologies is sufficient to meet 
their requirements. I am willing to do some of the leg-work to create a 
module (have done it many times), but it would make the best sense for 
someone at CrossWire to apply for a digital library card to get a 
contract with them.


Is anyone willing to represent CrossWire to do this?

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] osis genbook summary

2014-08-28 Thread Daniel Owens


Laurie,

Thank you for sharing the results of your testing. It is thorough and 
specific!


Daniel

On 8/29/14 9:05 AM, Laurie Fooks wrote:

Thankyou for the opportunity to raise my questions on inconsistencies
between front ends in sword. I beleive this was the correct forum for
this as a common interpretation of markup is essential for module
developers. I will attach a summary table of my findings in a
following post. Please contact me directly if the queue is delayed and
you would like a copy.

Thank you all for your responses and I hope that the sword project
contiues to be successful

Rgds
Laurie

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Re: [sword-devel] 1.7.2 release

2014-01-16 Thread Daniel Owens



On 1/16/14, 3:50 PM, Chris Little wrote:

On 1/15/2014 3:51 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

I agree. From a strategic point of view, I think it makes sense to place
a priority on mapping between KJV, NRSV, and Leningrad, but then LXX is
important too. Even if it is only approximate, there are some places
where it is very simple (most of the Psalms are offset by one chapter,
for example), and when it can be done, accurate (though maybe not
precise) parallel display should be sought after to make it easier for
the user. It does not have to be perfect, and certainly such mapping
does not need to reorder verses like the German Bible Society's Synopsis
of the Gospels. The user just needs to see in a parallel display that
the two Bibles are roughly lined up.


Sure, and the KJV, NRSV, and Leningrad can be mapped between with good 
accuracy. Furthermore, the data is readily available and there's no 
variability to account for or work around.


Mapping between the LXX versification system and another versification 
is impossible because there's no single LXX versification. 
Specifically mapping between Rahlfs' LXX and a KJV/NRSV or 
MT/Leningrad versified translation will work fine (and the data for 
that is available). Applying the same mapping between Brenton's LXX 
translation and the KJV/NRSV or MT/Leningrad versified translation 
will fail spectacularly. The versifications of Rahlfs' and Brenton's 
LXXes, despite using the same versification system definition in 
Sword, have about as much in common as either of them and the KJV.


So this reduces to the point I keep making: translation to translation 
mapping will work well-enough; system to system mapping (as they're 
defined in/by Sword) will not.


The data for all the LXX editions  translations used to create 
Sword's LXX versification definition can be found at 
https://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/lxx_v11ns/ 
and everyone is welcome to do their own comparisons to see the wide 
variability of versifications among texts using the same versification 
definition.


--Chris
I think in the flurry of emails I missed the distinction you were making 
between mapping between translations and mapping between systems. That 
is a useful distinction. I think I was hasty in reading you to be saying 
that all mappings were a ridiculous waste of time—who would want them? 
The answer many in the thread gave was, we all want them! I suspect we 
were talking about different things (though I could be wrong). I hope we 
can all agree that the end-user experience with parallel texts is 
something we want to improve.


Having said that, mapping between the most important Bible modules is 
what I hope can happen. In my mind this means the ability to 
successfully read KJV/ESV-kind-of-texts in parallel with Leningrad and 
Rahlfs' LXX. Brenton's LXX is much less important. Perhaps what I missed 
is whether everyone else was advocating mapping between systems or 
mapping between texts. But I would think that if mapping works well 
between the four texts listed above, that would make a large number of 
the texts in the module repository work with them as well. And that 
would be a fantastic start.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSMHB module

2013-07-14 Thread Daniel Owens


  
  
Chris,
  
  I made the original module, I believe. I tried to strip out all of
  the forward slashes, but clearly I missed some. I am sorry for
  that.
  
  I do not recall why I did not use seg to separate morph
  segments in the module, though my guess is that I wanted to keep
  it simple. If I recall correctly, David and I discussed the issue
  of using seg in the wlc files on Github, and he preferred
  to leave things as-is.
  
  As for making a module, since we are working on the morphological
  analysis (and I am busy with a new semester starting tomorrow), I
  probably will not have time to work on it for awhile. It would be
  nice to have an updated module, but looking forward it would be
  nice to have a simple script to:
  
  1. Combine the XML files from the wlc subfolder on Github into a
  single OSIS file.
  
  2. Strip "/" within words or convert the divisions into
  seg elements.
  
  3. Prepare @lemma for SWORD, which basically involves adding
  "strong:H" before each Strong's number. Also, instead of the slash
  between lemma, there should be a space. To take the first word in
  Gen 1:1 as an example (with @morph in light of the forthcoming
  morphology):
  
  
  
      w lemma="b/7225"
  morph="HR/Ncfsa"בְּ/רֵאשִׁ֖ית/w
  
  should become:
  
      w lemma="strong:Hb strong:H7225" morph="HR
  HNבְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית/w
  
  or, using seg:
  
      w lemma="strong:Hb strong:H7225" morph="HR
HNsegבְּ/segsegרֵאשִׁ֖ית/seg/w
  
  Caution: I have not tested how the front-ends handle seg.
  I really have no idea what they would do with it, that is, if they
  would do the same as my email client has done and placed the
  preposition in the wrong place.
  
  Anyway, I believe that is what is involved. If you (or anyone
  else) develops a script to deal with this, I would love to have it
  so we can put it on Github for future use. I know it is super
  simple, but my XSLT skills have to be relearned every time I work
  on a project such as this, so if someone gave me a simple script
  to combine the XML files into a single XML file, I could take it
  from there. 
  
  Daniel
  
  On 7/14/13 4:01 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:


  Thanks David. A few of extra questions:

  - It looks from the files under the wlc folder that they
are there to stay. Or do they get ripped out upon module
creation? Is there a reason why they are not using "seg"?
  - How does one go about making the new OHB module?
  
  
  
  
  Chris
  
  

  
  

On 14 July 2013 01:55, David Troidl davidtro...@aol.com
  wrote:
  
 The slashes are
  morphological divisions.  They come from the Westminster
  Hebrew Institute, through Chris Kimball, at http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Home
  
  The OSMHB is an older module.  Work has continued on the
  OSHB, our updated version, at
  https://github.com/openscriptures/morphhb
  No one has gotten around to updating the module, though.
  
  David
  

  
  On 7/13/2013 12:10 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
  

  
  

  
Hi
  
I'm looking at the Hebrew text, and I'm seeing
some forward slashes. Can someone help me
understand if this is a module issue or the
slash means something.
  
  
  Below is 2 Chronicles 25:14. The second last
'w' has a forward slash in it. 
  
  
  divtitle type="x-gen"2
Chronicles 25:14/titleverse
osisID="2Chr.25.14"w
lemma="strong:H1961"וַיְהִ֗י/w w
lemma="strong:H0310"אַחֲרֵ֨י/w w
lemma="strong:H0935"ב֤וֹא/w w
lemma="strong:H0558"אֲמַצְיָ֙הוּ֙/w
w
lemma="strong:H5221"מֵֽהַכּ֣וֹת/w
w
lemma="strong:H0853"אֶת/wseg
type="x-maqqef"־/segw
lemma="strong:H0130"אֲדוֹמִ֔ים/w
w
lemma="strong:H0935"וַיָּבֵ֗א/w
w
lemma="strong:H0853"אֶת/wseg

Re: [sword-devel] Searching Morphology Codes

2013-02-21 Thread Daniel Owens


  
  
I am so glad you asked about this, DM.
  
  
  As an OT scholar I want to be able to search for any possible
  combination of lemma and morphology. The possible combinations
  depend on the structure of the morphology codes. Chris has
  helpfully listed those for Robinson, but the WHM module will have
  its own, as will the OpenScriptures Hebrew Bible, when it gets
  morphology. :) 
  
  As a practical matter, the first step it seems to me is to have
  the ability to use wildcards to construct searches without using
  an interface, just typing the codes. Let's say * is the wildcard.
  Theoretically I want to be able to search for *@*, but in actual
  practice obviously elements should be able to be filled in. So if
  γενεαὶ (from γενεα) is N-NPF (Noun-Nominative Plural Feminine), I
  may want to search for: 
  
  *@N-NPF
  γενεα@Ν-*PF
  
  And many other iterations. Maybe I can do that already. But I also
  want to be able to search for two terms within a certain proximity
  (two, three words away, for example) or for terms in a particular
  order (A comes before B, within a certain number of words). 
  
  Because different morphologies structure the data differently (why
  Robinson has case and number before gender is beyond me—I learned
  Gender-Number-Case), any gui search builder would be specific to
  that morphology.
  
  Daniel
  
  On 2/21/13 11:17 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:


  Hi DM


Robinson's morphology define the following:



  Function
  Tense
  Voice
  Mood
  Person
  Case
  Number
  Gender
  Suffix
  
  



STEP intends to eventually allow a user to select
  any of the values in each of the categories and carry out
  either a colour filter or a search on a text/a whole Bible for
  a particular Strong number.


Chris


  
  

On 21 February 2013 14:25, DM Smith dmsm...@crosswire.org
  wrote:
  In the NT
we have Robinson codes which have meanings that ultimately
do not require a dictionary to understand.

In SWORD you can search SN@RC (where SN is a Strong's Number
and RC is a Robinson's Code) or for just RC.

I'm wondering whether searches can be more focused in a
linguistically meaningful way?

I'm not a linguist, but wondering what would be helpful to
those that are.

What would those searches be?

Gender?

Person?

Voice?

Many thanks in advance.

In Him,
        DM
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Re: [sword-devel] Pre-verse div and headings

2013-02-21 Thread Daniel Owens


Nic,

For what it's worth, VietNVB in the CrossWire repository has book 
intros, in case you want something to test.


Daniel

On 2/22/13 9:24 AM, Nic Carter wrote:

Quick question about introductions in modules:

On 22/01/2013, at 2:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts scr...@crosswire.org wrote:


OK, to clear this up technically.

setIntros() turns on and off the versification extra 'slots':

TSTMT BK CH:0 - chapter intro
TSTMT BK 0:0 - book intro
TSTMT 0 0:0 - testament intro
0 0 0:0 - module intro

Is there any way to detect if a module contains these introductions?

Right now PocketSword will display chapter intros if they exist (well, in v1.4.3, which 
is currently in review with Apple).
After that, I am thinking about the rest of these intros.
Do I programmatically check 69 different locations (well, for Bibles with 66 
books) to test for
66 lots of (book intro != NULL)
2 lots of (testament intro != NULL)
1 lot of (module intro != NULL)
and then know whether to offer a user to select these intros to view?

Or is there a simpler way of knowing if these exist?

Also, is there an English module that contains various of these intros that I 
can use for testing purposes? (actually, non-English will work as well, but I 
just won't be able to read the content!)

Thanks heaps, ybic
nic...  :)

ps: alternatively, I could check to see if I'm displaying chapter 1  then 
include the book intro at the top.
pps: along these lines, I could check if we're viewing the first book in a 
testament  then display the testament intro at the top as well?
ppps: and, carrying on, check if we're viewing the first book in the first 
testament in a module, and display the module intro as well?

s: However, all of these ps' will make things a little more messy for the 
reader...  :/


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Re: [sword-devel] genbook lexicons - example problem and potential solutions

2012-10-13 Thread Daniel Owens


On 10/13/2012 12:55 AM, Chris Little wrote:

On 10/11/2012 6:39 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

I am still working on the Abbott-Smith markup project (over 300 entries
and counting). We have four contributors right now, so the pace is
picking up. Creating a module is another story. Chris made a lexicon
module after the first release, but . . .

I would like the module to look like this:
http://www.textonline.org/files/abbott-smith/abbott-smith.current_release.html. 


To do that in SWORD, it needs to be a genbook in order to support:
- front- and backmatter
- page numbers
- a hierarchical structure (In the original TEI it has at least one
superEntry, but it is also divided into div's by letter heading [Α, Β,
Γ, Δ, Ε, Ζ, Η, Θ, etc.])

The good news is that an OSIS genbook supports the bare-bones essentials
of entries. And thankfully BPBible and BibleTime both display entries
together in the same view, thanks to BPBible's continuous scrolling and
*perhaps* BibleTime not recognizing div type=x-entry.

Unfortunately various features of valid OSIS genbooks are inconsistently
supported by front-ends. I created a module for testing. You can find it
at
https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/tree/master/releases/sword, 


including a valid OSIS file. Issues include:
- Some front-ends recognize lb/, others p, but the lexicon uses both
(and both are valid OSIS) in various contexts.
- Tables are inconsistently supported (mostly not)
- Titles should be centered, but there is no way to do that in OSIS, as
far as I can tell. I wonder if this is a great example use case of
per-module CSS...
- Parts of speech should be green and page numbers red, but you can't do
color in OSIS (another use case of per-module CSS?)

Some of these like p, lb, and tables should just work, I think.
Perhaps I will file bug reports. But the other display issues cannot be
resolved by OSIS alone.

Should TEI be a supported genbook format? I would think the TEI filter
(as it evolves) could be pressed into use for genbooks. If that were
done, certain lexicon-specific features as well as real book features
such as page numbers could be consistently supported and displayed. On
the other hand, I could see the value of having per-module CSS in the
conf file so that the module developer could have some control over
display.

Any thoughts?


I think your email boils down to wanting to use TEI for genbooks. 
You're absolutely welcome to do that, and there's nothing in the 
engine preventing you from doing that.


There isn't currently an importer set up to parse TEI files and 
generate genbooks, but I would probably recommend writing a script to 
generate IMP files from TEI so that you have precise control over what 
goes into each leaf of the genbook tree. Down the road, xml2gbs will 
accommodate TEI. I started work on it a couple months ago, but haven't 
had the time to work on it seriously.


--Chris
I think it boils down to a little more than that, but this response is 
helpful. I will experiment with using IMP files from TEI.


The other main issue is display. Perhaps I should test with TEI a little 
before raising the issue further. But of the issues I mention above, I 
doubt that the current TEI filter supports colored text for certain 
elements. And the question is whether that should be a universal feature 
of TEI files or not.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] seeking consensus on OSIS lemma best practice

2012-10-13 Thread Daniel Owens


On 10/13/2012 02:43 AM, Chris Little wrote:

On 10/12/2012 1:40 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

The markup would look like this:

Hebrew (from Deuteronomy): w lemma=whmlemma:Hאבד
morph=whmmorph:some_valueתֹּאבֵדוּן֮/w

Aramaic (from Jeremiah): w lemma=whmlemma:Aאבד
morph=whmmorph:some_valueיֵאבַ֧דוּ/w

The main problem I see is that other front-ends may not follow the
process of looking for G or H and then stripping the character before
looking up the entry.

Could we come to a consensus on this?


I would recommend taking a look at the markup used in the MorphGNT 
module, which also employs real lemmata rather in addition to lemmata 
coded as Strong's numbers:


w morph=robinson:N-NSF lemma=lemma.Strong:βίβλος 
strong:G0976Βίβλος/w


You should begin the workID for real lemmata with lemma., and follow 
this with some identifier indicating the lemmatization scheme. We have 
some code in Sword that looks for lemma. and will treat the value as 
a real word rather than a Strong's number or something else. I think 
OSIS validation may complain about the workIDs of the form 
lemma.system, but that's a schema bug and you should ignore it.


As for the value of the lemma itself ([HA]אבד in your example above), 
you choose the form specified in the system you are employing. So, if 
MORPH employs its own lemmatization system and that takes the form 
@word for Hebrew and %word for Aramaic, then use those forms, e.g.:


w lemma=lemma.whm:@אבד morph=whmmorph:some_valueתֹּאבֵדוּן֮/w

The alternative is to distinguish the languages via the workID:

w lemma=lemma.whm.he:אבד morph=whmmorph:some_valueתֹּאבֵדוּן֮/w

If you aren't creating a lexical resource that indexes based on @- and 
%- prefixed lemmata, then I don't see how the former option is useful 
and would recommend the latter. The latter option will allow lookups 
in word-indexed lexica.


--Chris

Thanks, Chris. I had not thought of the latter solution, but that is 
what we need. This raises a fundamental question: how will front-ends 
find the right lexical entry?


Currently, according to my understanding, a conf file may include 
Feature=HebrewDef. To distinguish Hebrew from Aramaic, I suggest the 
following value also be allowed: Feature=AramaicDef. Then front-ends 
will be able to find entries in the correct language.


But lemmatization can vary somewhat in the details within a language. 
How could we include mappings between lemmatization? That way we could 
map between lemmatizations so a text using Strong's numbers could look 
up words in a lexicon keyed to Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic and vice versa. 
Perhaps a simple mapping format could be the following:


The file StrongsGreek2AbbottSmith.map could contain:
G1=α
G2=Ἀαρών
G3=Ἀβαδδών
etc.

Frontends could use these mappings to find the correct lexical entry. So 
A lookup from KJV could then find the relevant entry in AbbottSmith. And 
with a similar mapping MorphGNT2StrongsGreek.map a lookup from MorphGNT 
could find the correct entry in Strongs, if that is the default Greek 
Lexicon for the front-end.


I use Greek because I have the data ready at hand, but this method would 
be even more important for Hebrew. I was testing with BibleTime and 
found that only some of the lemma in WHM would find their way to the 
correct BDB entry. This is because their lemmatizations are different. 
Providing for a mapping would allow us to resolve those conflicts for 
the user. Also, the OSMHB module could find entries in BDB keyed to 
Hebrew, and the WHM could find entries in BDB or Strongs. I expect this 
mapping would need to happen at the engine level.


Is that a reasonable solution? Or does someone have a better idea?

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] seeking consensus on OSIS lemma best practice

2012-10-13 Thread Daniel Owens


On 10/13/2012 05:23 PM, Chris Little wrote:

On 10/13/2012 6:12 AM, Daniel Owens wrote:

Thanks, Chris. I had not thought of the latter solution, but that is
what we need. This raises a fundamental question: how will front-ends
find the right lexical entry?

Currently, according to my understanding, a conf file may include
Feature=HebrewDef. To distinguish Hebrew from Aramaic, I suggest the
following value also be allowed: Feature=AramaicDef. Then front-ends
will be able to find entries in the correct language.


HebrewDef indicates that a lexicon module is indexed by Strong's 
numbers. Everything you've said so far indicates to me that you aren't 
using Strong's numbers at all, so do not use Feature=HebrewDef. Also, 
there should not ever be a Feature=AramaicDef since Aramaic Strong's 
numbers are not distinguished from Hebrew.


Yes, I am not using Strong's numbers at all. I am hoping to help SWORD 
move away from its dependence upon Strong's, both the module and the 
numbers. It never occurred to me when someone told me to use 
Feature=HebrewDef that it was reserved only for Strong's numbers. But if 
that is what it does, then I understand why my suggestion to add 
AramaicDef should be discarded. No problem, though in my defense the 
nomenclature is misleading (perhaps it should be called StrongsHebrewDef?).


I think it would probably be helpful if you could enumerate the set of 
modules you propose to create:


a Bible (just one? more than one?)
a lexicon? separate Hebrew  Aramaic lexica?
a morphology database? separate Hebrew  Aramaic databases?

I am trying to see that there are respectable free or low cost options 
for study of the Bible in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. I am trying to 
envision the big picture, some of which is already filled in, and then 
work toward filling in the rest. In the end I would like to see the 
following modules.


For Greek:
- Bible Texts: MorphGNT (Greek lemma, not Strong's numbers); other 
future texts with Greek lemma, other current and future texts with 
Strong's numbers (Tischendorf, WH, KJV, etc.)

- Lexica: Strong's Greek; Abbott-Smith (Greek lemma)

For Hebrew:
- Bible Texts: WHM (Hebrew lemma); OSMHB (currently has Strong's 
numbers, but eventually I hope will have some other more up-to-date 
lemmatization)
- Lexica: Strong's Hebrew; BDB Hebrew (Hebrew lemma); BDB Aramaic 
(Aramaic lemma)


My guess is that you are advocating a Feature value that indicates 
this lexicon module contains words in language X, indexed by 
lemma/word. I would absolutely be supportive of adding this, but we 
currently have nothing comparable in use. I would advocate 
(Greek|Hebrew|Aramaic|...)WordDef for the value.


That makes sense to me. That's what I thought I was advocating. :) Just 
to make sure we care communicating, though, you mean 
Feature=GreekWordDef, etc., right?



But lemmatization can vary somewhat in the details within a language.
How could we include mappings between lemmatization? That way we could
map between lemmatizations so a text using Strong's numbers could look
up words in a lexicon keyed to Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic and vice versa.
Perhaps a simple mapping format could be the following:

The file StrongsGreek2AbbottSmith.map could contain:
G1=α
G2=Ἀαρών
G3=Ἀβαδδών
etc.

Frontends could use these mappings to find the correct lexical entry. So
A lookup from KJV could then find the relevant entry in AbbottSmith. And
with a similar mapping MorphGNT2StrongsGreek.map a lookup from MorphGNT
could find the correct entry in Strongs, if that is the default Greek
Lexicon for the front-end.

I use Greek because I have the data ready at hand, but this method would
be even more important for Hebrew. I was testing with BibleTime and
found that only some of the lemma in WHM would find their way to the
correct BDB entry. This is because their lemmatizations are different.
Providing for a mapping would allow us to resolve those conflicts for
the user. Also, the OSMHB module could find entries in BDB keyed to
Hebrew, and the WHM could find entries in BDB or Strongs. I expect this
mapping would need to happen at the engine level.

Is that a reasonable solution? Or does someone have a better idea?


I believe that mapping to/from Strong's numbers is not one-to-one, but 
many-to-many. We currently allow lookups based on lemmata by keying 
lexica to lemmata. A lexicon can have multiple keys point to a single 
entry.


Yes, mapping between them is complicated and not all cases will work 
exactly right. Yes, multiple lexical keys *sort of* point to a single 
entry. In practice they point to text that says @LINK and the other 
key but does not link to the actual entry. For example, I created a 
lexicon with Hebrew and Strong's keys, and the result for H1 was:


H0001 @LINK אָב

Lookup *should* be seamless, that is, the user should not have to find 
the entry manually. Maybe in some odd cases the user would need to 
scroll up or down an entry or two, but the above example would

Re: [sword-devel] multiple languages in modules

2012-10-12 Thread Daniel Owens

foreign is the xml way of indicating a language other than the 
language of the document. So you surround Hebrew text with foreign 
xml:lang=heb. Judging from Ben's more recent email, even BPBible does 
not support it. Regardless of the menthod, the effect is great.


I use Linux Libertine all the time for all but Hebrew. Vowel points do 
not display correctly. Free Serif is a passable alternative because it 
gets the vowels right, but the Hebrew glyphs seem anemic to me.


I am also working with David Troidl on BDB, which has many more 
languages, including Arabic, Ethiopic, Syriac, and transliterated 
Akkadian. It is not realistic to expect any one font to handle all of 
those in addition to Greek and Hebrew. My main point is that applying 
fonts based on language of the text rather than language of the module 
is something worth working in.


More below.

On 10/11/2012 11:11 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

I know nothing of foreign, but can only suppose that, if supported, it
must pass through the engine with an appropriate (HTML) indication.

As a general rule, I suggest either Free Serif or Linux Libertine, with
a slight preference for Free Serif.  Both have good coverage across
every Latin alphabet variant, and pretty display of both Hebrew and
Greek.  In modules of mine that have Latin, Greek, and Hebrew alphabets,
they all show quite well.  We include both of these fonts in Xiphos'
Win32 installers.

You might find the UDHR module useful, from Crosswire Experimental, as a
font demonstration module.

(Linux Libertine is not Linux-specific.  It was just developed in an
open source environment.)


Is the foreign element passed through the engine? If so, do I need
to file bugs with front-ends to encourage support of foreign?

Having just looked, the string foreign does not appear in Sword's
source tree in src/modules/filters/*.cpp.  So it's not supported right
now after all.  I don't know how BPBible supports it; I had understood
that BPBible uses the regular filter sets.  Does BPBible actually
subclass the filters and extend them for foreign?


Second, when RtoL text is mixed with LtoR text you can get some
strange display problems. Punctuation and numbers can work for both
types of languages.

This is often an artifact of how toolkits handle LtoR.  Today, Xiphos
uses GTK and WebKit, but I don't know how these reflect your example
case.  Our former use of gtkhtml3 -vs- gtkmozembed -vs- xulrunner -vs-
today's WebKit always led to some strange realizations for how LtoR
would show up in Xiphos.  gtkhtml3 wants to right-justify any text
containing (or perhaps it was that leads off with) Hebrew.  That
peculiarity led to certain unexpected choices for how I created
StrongsRealHebrew.

I love unicode, but mixed language language directions is one problem 
that did not exist with legacy fonts. As far as I can tell, all web 
browsers and word processors do the same thing—when you have some Hebrew 
text they assume that anything that follows such as numerals or 
punctuation (until you get some Latin text, for example) is Hebrew. When 
marking up xml you get a false sense of security about text rendering 
because the tags use Latin characters. But when they are rendered by a 
browser, even text outside the foreign xml:lang=heb is assumed to be 
Hebrew until you get some Latin text. I think that is why html has 
bdo, which helps solve the problem.


Daniel

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[sword-devel] seeking consensus on OSIS lemma best practice

2012-10-12 Thread Daniel Owens

Gary Holmlund and I are working on a problem related to the Westminster 
Hebrew Morphology (WHM) module. We need a consensus on markup practices 
for OSIS lemma.


I was having a problem getting natural Hebrew lemma to look up an entry 
and display it in the mag window. Gary discovered that if H is 
prefixed to lemma in WHM, the BibleTime mag window works with Hebrew 
lemma (as opposed to Strong's numbers).


My understanding is that this is not typical OSIS best practice but a 
SWORD convention. I resisted at first, but now I think there is some 
wisdom to using this method. We need some way to distinguish between 
Hebrew and Aramaic words, which can be identical in form but not in 
meaning. WHM uses @ for Hebrew and % for Aramaic. I suggested to Gary 
that we compromise and simply change @ to H and % to A, modifying 
BibleTime to strip A and H and use that to look for the entry in the 
correct lexicon.


The markup would look like this:

Hebrew (from Deuteronomy): w lemma=whmlemma:Hאבד 
morph=whmmorph:some_valueתֹּאבֵדוּן֮/w


Aramaic (from Jeremiah): w lemma=whmlemma:Aאבד 
morph=whmmorph:some_valueיֵאבַ֧דוּ/w


The main problem I see is that other front-ends may not follow the 
process of looking for G or H and then stripping the character before 
looking up the entry.


Could we come to a consensus on this?

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] multiple languages in modules

2012-10-12 Thread Daniel Owens


On 10/12/2012 03:23 PM, Chris Little wrote:

On 10/12/2012 5:44 AM, Daniel Owens wrote:

foreign is the xml way of indicating a language other than the
language of the document. So you surround Hebrew text with foreign
xml:lang=heb.


A small sidenote, since you do encoding: heb is not a legal value 
for xml:lang. This must be he or hbo if you mean Ancient Hebrew. 
2-letter language subtags from 639-2 are always required if they exist 
(rather than 3-letter subtags from subsequent 639s). The details are 
spelled out in BCP 47. You can also find the full current set of IANA 
registered language subtags at:

http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry

--Chris


Okay, thanks. heb is more intuitive, so perhaps that is how it crept in.

Daniel

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[sword-devel] genbook lexicons - example problem and potential solutions

2012-10-11 Thread Daniel Owens

I am still working on the Abbott-Smith markup project (over 300 entries 
and counting). We have four contributors right now, so the pace is 
picking up. Creating a module is another story. Chris made a lexicon 
module after the first release, but . . .


I would like the module to look like this: 
http://www.textonline.org/files/abbott-smith/abbott-smith.current_release.html. 
To do that in SWORD, it needs to be a genbook in order to support:

- front- and backmatter
- page numbers
- a hierarchical structure (In the original TEI it has at least one 
superEntry, but it is also divided into div's by letter heading [Α, Β, 
Γ, Δ, Ε, Ζ, Η, Θ, etc.])


The good news is that an OSIS genbook supports the bare-bones essentials 
of entries. And thankfully BPBible and BibleTime both display entries 
together in the same view, thanks to BPBible's continuous scrolling and 
*perhaps* BibleTime not recognizing div type=x-entry.


Unfortunately various features of valid OSIS genbooks are inconsistently 
supported by front-ends. I created a module for testing. You can find it 
at 
https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/tree/master/releases/sword, 
including a valid OSIS file. Issues include:
- Some front-ends recognize lb/, others p, but the lexicon uses both 
(and both are valid OSIS) in various contexts.

- Tables are inconsistently supported (mostly not)
- Titles should be centered, but there is no way to do that in OSIS, as 
far as I can tell. I wonder if this is a great example use case of 
per-module CSS...
- Parts of speech should be green and page numbers red, but you can't do 
color in OSIS (another use case of per-module CSS?)


Some of these like p, lb, and tables should just work, I think. 
Perhaps I will file bug reports. But the other display issues cannot be 
resolved by OSIS alone.


Should TEI be a supported genbook format? I would think the TEI filter 
(as it evolves) could be pressed into use for genbooks. If that were 
done, certain lexicon-specific features as well as real book features 
such as page numbers could be consistently supported and displayed. On 
the other hand, I could see the value of having per-module CSS in the 
conf file so that the module developer could have some control over 
display.


Any thoughts?

Daniel

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[sword-devel] multiple languages in modules

2012-10-11 Thread Daniel Owens

Working on Abbott-Smith some things came together in my mind about 
modules that mix languages. I have identified two problems.


First, modules that mix languages do not look good when fonts are chosen 
per module rather than per language (regardless of the language of the 
module). I go back and forth on which font to use as the default font in 
SWORD frontends. If I am primarily using Greek lexicons, I use a Greek 
font. If Hebrew lexicons then Hebrew. Cardo just does not satisfy, and 
the SBL Biblit font is not out yet. But the foreign element *should* 
mean that the front-end picks the right font for the right text, right? 
I was (quietly) ecstatic to discover that BPBible also handles foreign 
elements properly, displaying the proper fonts for each language in a 
module (such as Abbott-Smith) that has five languages, using three 
different fonts. So cool. But most front-ends do not. Is the foreign 
element passed through the engine? If so, do I need to file bugs with 
front-ends to encourage support of foreign?


Second, when RtoL text is mixed with LtoR text you can get some strange 
display problems. Punctuation and numbers can work for both types of 
languages. Take an example from the entry ἀγανάκτησις in Abbott-Smith. 
It uses the aleph character, with a number 1 following. Just typing this 
as plain text gives you: א1. This is incorrect even though the numeral 
was typed after the letter. I found a solution in HTML using bdo. The 
page at 
http://www.textonline.org/files/abbott-smith/abbott-smith.current_release.html 
properly handles this issue. It actually transforms raw TEI using XSL 
with a CSS stylesheet to handle certain display issues. These 
stylesheets can be found at 
https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/tree/master/releases.


Could bdo be added to the filters to help with this problem?

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Insidious mismatched tag errors: recommendations

2012-09-20 Thread Daniel Owens

I use jEdit with the XML plugin installed. I find it helps me find 
problems fairly easily.


Daniel

On 09/20/2012 05:26 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

There are a number of pieces of software out there that will
pretty-print the XML for you, with indenting and whatnot. Overly
indented for what you would want in production but decent for
debugging mismatching nesting and the like.

For example, 'xmllint --format' will properly indent the file, etc. I
don't know how it will handle poorly formed XML.

GUI editors can do wonders as well. On Windows I use Notepad++ and
manually set it to display XML. gEdit and Geany - I believe - both
support similar display worlds. And there are some plugins for Eclipse
that might handle what you need as well.

--Greg

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Karl Kleinpaste k...@kleinpaste.org wrote:

Andrew Thule thules...@gmail.com writes:

One of my least favour things is finding mismatched tags in OSIS.xml files
Has anyone successfully climbed this summit?

XEmacs and xml-mode (and font-lock-mode).  M-C-f and M-C-b execute
sgml-forward-element and -backward-.  That is, sitting at the beginning
of tag, M-C-f (meta-control-f) moves forward to the matching /tag,
properly handling nested tags.

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Re: [sword-devel] AndBible

2012-09-18 Thread Daniel Owens

My phone installs modules to 
/sdcard/Android/data/net.bible.android.activity/files/, but you tried 
that already. For what it's worth, I can manually install to that 
directory without a problem. I can even restore my backup of those files 
after reinstalling AndBible (long story), and it detects all of them.


Daniel

On 09/18/2012 03:31 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

I'm trying to get a module up and running on AndBible and there's a
few things I'm either missing or botching about it.

1) The module is in a personal repository. There doesn't seem to be a
way in AndBible to configure a new install location. This is an
HTTP-based location, so it would need post-1.6.2 SWORD, but I imagine
that's not much of an issue for AndBible as it can bundle its own
version of SWORD. Is this intentional, overlooked, or purposefully
left out of the application?

2) I tried copying the files directly into the application, but I
can't seem to locate the proper location to place them. I have tried
directly into /sword/ on the SDCard, but I think that was the path
that Bishop uses. So then I tried in /Android/data/net.bible or
something/ where I also located a mods.d and modules directory. The
application still didn't seem to locate the files. Am I missing the
install path somewhere?

3) If files are meant to be manually installed, I don't see a way to
tell the application to refresh its cache of modules. That would be a
handy button, rather than force closing the application and restarting
it.

I've been told I need to actually soil my hands with mobile
development, so I'm willing to work with you, Martin, if these are
directions you want the application to go. The target for this module
is the stereotypical, rural, subsaharan, African grasslands. Some
people might have connectivity some of the time, but it's much more
likely that the files will be copied from phone to phone readily.
Might it even be possible for one person to directly transfer a module
from one phone to another using some sort of Bluetooth or NFC-style of
connection in the absence of a host computer?  Now I'm just talking
hot air about possibilities, but is it feasible?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] USFM conformance in usfm2osis.py

2012-08-01 Thread Daniel Owens

I agree with Peter (there really is no spec), but you have to be 
realistic about what you can do as the developer. I would add everything 
that you can from the UBS reference document and then gradually add 
other common USFM elements as time goes by.


Obviously you would have to decide what USFM practices you are willing 
to support since some practices may conflict with others. But my thought 
is, if it is common practice and does not conflict seriously with the 
reference document or the fundamental way you have constructed the 
script to work, support it. Less common practices and those that pose 
serious conflicts should be cleaned up in the USFM files before being 
put through the script. I know common practice is hopelessly vague, 
but you have seen a few texts and can make good judgments about what 
should be in there.


Daniel

On 08/01/2012 12:02 AM, ref...@gmx.net wrote:
My immediate thought is, there is no USFM text which conforms to spec. 
And those that try to still vary in their interpretation and the 
semantics. So a tool to transform needs to be flexible and editable.

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: Chris Little chris...@crosswire.org
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum sword-devel@crosswire.org
Subject: [sword-devel] USFM conformance in usfm2osis.py
Date: Wed, Aug 1, 2012 3:16 am


My new usfm2osis.py script is progressing quite nicely. I've got it 
generating valid OSIS from one Bible that uses a very minimal set of 
USFM elements. At the moment, I'm working to make it process all tags 
present within the USFM versions of the WEB and RV, and this has 
raised an issue.


I've been working primarily with the USFM reference from UBS ICAP, 
treating it as a sort of specification. My question is: should this 
new utility accept USFM that does not conform to the reference at UBS 
ICAP?


Should it accept  interpret USFM tags that are not present in the 
reference?


One specific example is that the WEB uses \fqa*, which is obviously 
intended as an end-tag version of \fqa (used to mark alternate 
translations). But the USFM reference does not identify this as a 
valid end-tag, by my reading.


So... should we...

a) Make the new utility accept non-conformant USFM (from the 
perspective of the USFM reference). I'm leery of this, since one of my 
reasons for writing the new utility was to keep it pristinely 
spec-conformant and I have a feeling we might start incorporating tags 
and syntax that are less obviously interpretable than \fqa*.


b) Write a separate utility to convert common and interpretable 
non-conformant tags/syntax to conformant markup.


c) Add a command-line switch to usfm2osis.py so that it performs a 
pre-processing step of making non-conformant tags/syntax into 
conformant markup. (This would be the same as option b, but would 
place everything in a single utility.)


d) Punt on the issue, and let those performing conversion deal with 
non-conformant markup on a case by case basis.



--Chris

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[sword-devel] First release of Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon

2012-07-27 Thread Daniel Owens


  
  
I am pleased to announce the first release of a marked-up version of
Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon, v. 0.1. 

This release includes pages iii-3 and words occurring 1,000 times or
more in the Greek NT. Obviously there is much still to do
(contributors are welcome!). 

You may view the release online (http://www.textonline.org/files/abbott-smith/abbott-smith.current_release.xml).

Those interested in contributing should visit the project page on
Github (http://translatable-exegetical-tools.github.com/Abbott-Smith/).

Daniel

  


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[sword-devel] swordweb links

2012-07-26 Thread Daniel Owens

Is there a way to create a link to a passage in swordweb and specify the 
Bible module? I want it to go to the SBL GNT module.


Currently the link goes to: 
http://www.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?key=Luke.1.5. But that 
goes to whatever default Bible (in my case, NASB appears, which is the 
generic default I think). I am guessing this is stupid easy, but I have 
not worked it out yet.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] swordweb links

2012-07-26 Thread Daniel Owens


Cool, thanks. That worked perfectly.

Daniel

On 07/26/2012 11:59 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Hi Daniel,

Yeah, swordweb takes a number of parameter from most any page:

mod is what you want, e.g.,

http://www.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?key=Luke.1.5mod=SBLGNT

A few other globals which might be interesting (with sample values:

setStyle=Parchment
lang=el




On 07/26/2012 06:43 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:
Is there a way to create a link to a passage in swordweb and specify 
the Bible module? I want it to go to the SBL GNT module.


Currently the link goes to: 
http://www.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?key=Luke.1.5. But 
that goes to whatever default Bible (in my case, NASB appears, which 
is the generic default I think). I am guessing this is stupid easy, 
but I have not worked it out yet.


Daniel

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[sword-devel] namespaces in xsl

2012-07-26 Thread Daniel Owens

I am writing a stylesheet to display Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon 
of the New Testament from Github where I will post releases. I have no 
idea how to get the namespace declaration right in the xsl file. I have 
googled and tried several solutions, but so far nothing works.


The source document, abbott-smith.xml, begins:

?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?
?xml-stylesheet type=text/xsl href=abbott-smith.xsl?
TEI xmlns=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace; 
xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; 
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace 
http://www.crosswire.org/OSIS/teiP5osis.1.4.xsd;


Here is how abbott-smith.xsl begins:

?xml version=1.0?
xsl:stylesheet version=1.0 
xmlns:xsl=http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform;

xsl:output method=html /

The only way I can get the xsl to work is to delete the namespace 
declaration from the source document, which does not seem like good 
practice. Simply adding 
xmlns=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace; to 
xsl:stylesheet in abbott-smith.xsl does not work. Nor does adding it 
as xmlns:tei and adding /tei: to the first XPath query.


Can anyone help me?

Daniel



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Re: [sword-devel] namespaces in xsl

2012-07-26 Thread Daniel Owens

Thank you all for your help. It came down to getting my xpath 
expressions correctly prefixed, which took some digging. I will post the 
results soon.


Daniel

On 07/26/2012 05:00 PM, David Troidl wrote:

Here's the root element of an OSIS document:
osis 
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace 
http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd; 
xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; 
xmlns=http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace;


And here is a style sheet for transforming it:
xsl:stylesheet version=1.0 
xmlns:xsl=http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform;

xmlns:osis=http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;

Notice how the xmlns:osis from the style sheet matches the xmlns from 
the XML document.  The osis prefix distinguishes the elements that 
come from that namespace.


David

On 7/26/2012 4:26 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:
I am writing a stylesheet to display Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek 
Lexicon of the New Testament from Github where I will post releases. 
I have no idea how to get the namespace declaration right in the xsl 
file. I have googled and tried several solutions, but so far nothing 
works.


The source document, abbott-smith.xml, begins:

?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?
?xml-stylesheet type=text/xsl href=abbott-smith.xsl?
TEI xmlns=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace; 
xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; 
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace 
http://www.crosswire.org/OSIS/teiP5osis.1.4.xsd;


Here is how abbott-smith.xsl begins:

?xml version=1.0?
xsl:stylesheet version=1.0 
xmlns:xsl=http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform;

xsl:output method=html /

The only way I can get the xsl to work is to delete the namespace 
declaration from the source document, which does not seem like good 
practice. Simply adding 
xmlns=http://www.crosswire.org/2008/TEIOSIS/namespace; to 
xsl:stylesheet in abbott-smith.xsl does not work. Nor does adding 
it as xmlns:tei and adding /tei: to the first XPath query.


Can anyone help me?

Daniel



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Re: [sword-devel] Stem searching

2012-07-12 Thread Daniel Owens


Troy,

I am excited about this kind of search capability. This is great work.

I have a question. Will this solution also cover searching for a morph 
value for any lemma? It might look like:


morph:*@mor1

instead of

morph:lem1@mor1

In other words, if I want to find all the masculine, singular nouns, 
regardless of lemma.


Daniel

On 07/12/2012 10:01 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Hey Chris,

A relational database will not contribute more to a solution than what 
we have available in lucene.  What I failed to get across in my last 
email, due to too much caffeine, was that a verse's declension data by 
itself is useless without being attached to the lemma which each morph 
code in the declension data modifies.


We have 2 things for each word:

root@declension

we refer to these as:

lemma@morph

root, stem, lemma, in this discussion are all synonyms.


Currently in our lucene index we have a field called 'lemma', so for a 
verse with 5 words, this field might look something like this:


lem1 lem2 lem3 lem4

and we can do searches for all verses with lem3

lemma:lem3

great, but this ignores the declension data; e.g., was lem3 a 1st 
person or 2nd person noun?  Ignoring declension is usually desired 
when doing word studies, and why we have the 'lemma' lucene index in 
the first place.  You don't want to have to search for all forms of a 
word to do a word study.


... but sometimes you only care about 1 form of a word when doing a 
study, so how do we incorporate the declension information?


It would be useless to create a 'morph' field with contents for the 
same verse as:


mor1 mor2 mor3 mor4

In this scenario, you could construct a clucene search using both 
fields like this:


lemma:lem2 morph:mor2

but this would not return what you desire.  This would return all 
verses which have a lem2 in the lemma field and a mor2 in the morph 
field, but not necessarily together.


So... the proposed solution...
++

We have created a new field called 'morph' which will probably replace 
the lemma field and has data as:


lem1@mor1 lem2@mor2 lem3@mor3 lem4@mor4

This allows a lucene search to be create like this:

morph:lem2@mor2

or to get the functionality of the current 'lemma' field-- which 
ignores declension, the equiv search using the 'morph' field would be:


morph:lem2@*

this allows all kinds of queries, like: give me all verses which have 
lem1 and lem2 within 4 words of each other and lem2 must have the 
declension mor2


morph:lem1@* lem2@mor2~4

Hope this make things clearer if there were any clouds :)

Troy








On 07/12/2012 02:17 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
Thanks Troy. That helps put the task in perspective... An alternative 
would possibly be to store both strong and morphology indexes in a 
relational database. Then have a table mapping all the data together. 
I guess the mapping table would be based on one version of the Bible 
only.


Cheers
Chris


On 11 July 2012 01:09, Troy A. Griffitts scr...@crosswire.org 
mailto:scr...@crosswire.org wrote:


Chris,

We're toyed around with the best way to add lemma+morph searching
in SWORD but haven't finalized anything yet.

Indexing Morphology codes won't helps.  This would give you 2
fields which need to be used together.

For example, if you wish to find λογος only in the nominative
within 3 words of any present, active, indicative, 2 persons
singular or plural verb, you could not satisfy your search.

Believe it or not, end users of tools like Bibleworks seem quite
happy to learn odd syntax like:


λογος@* *@PAI2?~3


Of course GUI tools to help build that syntax for them is also
desired.

This it the direction we're heading, but would require lemma
encoding changed from strongs to lexical form.

Presently we could nearly obtain this by building an index as
(from the start of John 1.1):

G1722@PREP G746@N-DSF G2258@V-IXI-3S

But this would require users to know strongs numbers rather than
lexical form, which would almost certainly need a GUI to help
them build the search syntax.

Hope this helps,

Troy





On 07/10/2012 11:41 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:

Hello

Does anyone know/tried some kind of stem search with JSword? Is
it implemented? Or would we need to do a bit more work there?

Chris



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Re: [sword-devel] [jsword-devel] Stem searching

2012-07-10 Thread Daniel Owens

Please let me know if there is anything non- or semi-technical I can do 
(testing, etc.) to help with this. I was surprised to learn that BW (and 
Logos 4, I would add) uses such arcane syntax, but it really is powerful 
once you learn it. I wonder how many users simply do not make use of the 
powerful tools at their fingertips because they are intimidated by the 
syntax. The only person I know who uses this to great effect is a PHP 
programmer with a computer science degree...


Daniel

On 07/10/2012 05:09 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Chris,

We're toyed around with the best way to add lemma+morph searching in 
SWORD but haven't finalized anything yet.


Indexing Morphology codes won't helps.  This would give you 2 fields 
which need to be used together.


For example, if you wish to find λογος only in the nominative within 3 
words of any present, active, indicative, 2 persons singular or plural 
verb, you could not satisfy your search.


Believe it or not, end users of tools like Bibleworks seem quite happy 
to learn odd syntax like:



λογος@* *@PAI2?~3


Of course GUI tools to help build that syntax for them is also desired.

This it the direction we're heading, but would require lemma encoding 
changed from strongs to lexical form.


Presently we could nearly obtain this by building an index as (from 
the start of John 1.1):


G1722@PREP G746@N-DSF G2258@V-IXI-3S

But this would require users to know strongs numbers rather than 
lexical form, which would almost certainly need a GUI to help them 
build the search syntax.


Hope this helps,

Troy




On 07/10/2012 11:41 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:

Hello

Does anyone know/tried some kind of stem search with JSword? Is it 
implemented? Or would we need to do a bit more work there?


Chris



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Re: [sword-devel] LXXM

2012-06-11 Thread Daniel Owens


On 06/11/2012 02:46 AM, Chris Little wrote:

Troy produced this module. Since it's a CCAT text, there may be some legal 
issues with producing a derivative text, and I would guess that there are some 
truly PD LXXes floating around, with accents, that might be a better source.
I did see that CCAT was relying on recent editions of Rahlfs. I do not 
know if that would cause a problem or not. I will see what I can do to 
find a PD LXX text out there, though the LXXM has lemmatization and 
morphology. It is publicly available, and it would be nice to know for 
sure what the licensing issues may be. I sent a few corrections to CCAT 
after working on a parsing module, but I have not heard back from them.




We might do better to simply add the Rahlfs v11n to Sword and reimport LXXM, 
since it is quite distinctive, relative to other Bibles, including other LXXes.

--Chris
That would be wonderful! I agree it is distinctive and is fundamental in 
ways that many other versification systems are not.


Daniel



On Jun 2, 2012, at 2:00 AM, Daniel Owensdhow...@pmbx.net  wrote:


To my knowledge, the LXXM in the experimental repository is the only LXX module 
that has diacritics (accents). Is there any way we could create a usable Bible 
module using that text? The current LXX module lacks accents and thus makes it 
much less useful. I downloaded the CCAT files and was going to make a module 
myself, but I figured someone out there as a decent OSIS file if it was made 
into a genbook module. I would be willing to work on the module if someone 
would send me that OSIS file or even the script that was used to convert it 
from betacode.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Back in Business

2012-06-01 Thread Daniel Owens


Related to that, JIRA is still down, I believe.

Daniel

On 05/31/2012 07:13 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

Now that we're back in business, the most recent effort I recall was
setting up and preparing for 1.7, yes? I realize not much (if
anything) got done with the server stoppage. Is there an update to the
TODO list or outstanding items list for 1.7?

--Greg

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[sword-devel] LXXM

2012-06-01 Thread Daniel Owens

To my knowledge, the LXXM in the experimental repository is the only LXX 
module that has diacritics (accents). Is there any way we could create a 
usable Bible module using that text? The current LXX module lacks 
accents and thus makes it much less useful. I downloaded the CCAT files 
and was going to make a module myself, but I figured someone out there 
as a decent OSIS file if it was made into a genbook module. I would be 
willing to work on the module if someone would send me that OSIS file or 
even the script that was used to convert it from betacode.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] TEI formatting, duplicated key (BDB Glosses)

2012-04-30 Thread Daniel Owens




On 04/30/2012 06:54 AM, Chris Little wrote:

On 4/30/2012 4:39 AM, David Troidl wrote:

Hi Chris,

I'm certainly no expert on your TEI dictionaries, but wouldn't it make
sense to have the first key be one that would sort properly, and present
the dictionary in true alphabetical order? I'm thinking of Middle
Liddell, as well as the Hebrew. This key wouldn't even necessarily have
to be shown to the user. The second key, the title, could then maintain
the proper accents for display, without hindering sorting, searching or
navigation.


I confess, I don't understand what you're proposing this as an 
alternative to.


In the example Karl cites, there's just one actual key per entry. It 
is an uppercased version of the entryFree's n attribute. This is the 
key that is sorted.


The un-uppercased version from the n attribute is being rendered as 
part of the entry text via the TEI filters. This is the part I'm 
proposing we retain, but render somewhere else, e.g. right-justified 
at the bottom of the entry.


We also render all the text of the entry, which in these cases 
includes the text from a title element.


I don't know what 'true alphabetical order' means, but if you mean 
localized sort order, it's not possible with the current 
implementation of this module type.


--Chris



I think David's concern is something that needs to be dealt with. A 
number of possibilities could be pursued, some of them together:


1. The current implementation is to sort by unicode code points. 
This works particularly well with numeric keys. A quick solution for 
languages for which such sorting is not alphabetical would be to follow 
David's suggestion of using keys that the user does not even see. This 
has the advantage of providing a workable solution right away, but there 
are some problems with this. First, we could create a new strongs 
standard because the current implementation does not actually hide keys. 
That could be solved by making the keys so obscure that no one would 
remember them. Second, any future, more robust solution would require 
reworking all modules keyed to it. I have toyed with this solution, and 
it might be the pragmatic way forward, but it is not ideal.


2. A localized sort order, which I think this is what David means 
by true alphabetical order, would be a better long-term solution.


3. In addition, using genbooks for lexica would work for lexica 
that are sorted by root, with subentries nested in a hierarchy, just 
like in the Hesychius module and BDB. I have been working with Troy on 
this. Unfortunately, front-ends do not recognize the Feature=HebrewDef 
option in the conf file and allow genbooks as lexica. I can send anyone 
an example lexicon if you are interested in working on this. In that 
case, instead of @n as the key, */x-entry/@osisID would be the key.


Any thoughts?

Daniel

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[sword-devel] lemma systems

2012-04-30 Thread Daniel Owens

The related discussion about TEI markup and lexicon keys raises another 
issue: lemma systems.


Currently the only defined lemma system is strong. It is easy to 
connect to, but we need to move beyond it. I have several questions: 1. 
Should we define new lemma systems? 2. How can we make such lemma 
systems interoperable, at least in a fuzzy way?


1. Should we define new lemma systems?

The MorphGNT based on the SBL GNT (I have a module created from James 
Tauber's Github repository last week) uses Greek lemma. The Westminster 
Hebrew Morphology uses its own lemma in Hebrew. Should we define new 
lemma systems such as: mgntlemma and whmlemma?


A practical issue arises with whmlemma: Aramaic and Hebrew use the same 
script. Currently lemma begin with @ for Hebrew and % for Aramaic. 
Should we retain those or go with H for Hebrew and A for Aramaic? 
Currently with Strongs there is no need for this difference because the 
numbers distinguish the language, but when natural language keys are 
used some system needs to be defined so that a lookup of a lemma in 
Daniel 3 take you to the Aramaic portion of the lexicon not the Hebrew one.


2. How can we make such lemma systems inter-operable, at least in a 
fuzzy way?


Some mechanism needs to be created to connect the many lemma systems to 
each other. It seems to me that Bible texts will follow one lemma scheme 
or another, but why not create a system in which various lemma systems 
can be connected? For example, H1 (strong) and @אָב (whmlemma) should be 
easy to connect. If you look up H1 from KJV in a dictionary keyed to 
whmlemma, it should take you to @אָב.


I have asked a number of questions. Modules currently in development 
necessitate this discussion. I would value input about the markup 
questions above under point 1, and it would be wonderful if we could 
discuss and someday resolve the technical question under point 2.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] TEI formatting, duplicated key (BDB Glosses)

2012-04-29 Thread Daniel Owens


On 04/29/2012 07:28 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:

Hi Daniel,

On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Daniel Owens dhow...@pmbx.net 
mailto:dhow...@pmbx.net wrote:


Well, it may be a poor markup choice on my part, but the Strongs
modules are marked up the same way. I was just following the
established pattern.

I can see a couple of reasons to include a title in addition to
the key:
- Normally attributes are not displayed, only the content of
elements, except @n in TEI and sometimes @osisID in OSIS genbooks (?)
- I could see cases in which a lexicon key would not be identical
to its title or head term, such as a full BDB module keyed to
Strongs. The use of Strongs numbers in that case would be purely
for the software to find the correct entry from a Bible tagged
with Strongs numbers, not a part of the actual lexicon entry


Wouldn't it be best to only display the two if they were different 
from each other, irrespective of what the TEI markup looked like?


Jon

You are probably right. How would that work? Would the TEI filter need 
to test whether the title and the key are identical? Even in the case of 
Strongs, they are not identical: H0001 (or 1) for the key and H1 for 
the title.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] TEI formatting, duplicated key (BDB Glosses)

2012-04-28 Thread Daniel Owens

Well, it may be a poor markup choice on my part. It was intuitive to me to
include a title for each entry since it is not intuitive to display the key
attribute in the text of the entry. But obviously my intuition is not the
same as the filter developers.

I could see cases in which a lexicon key would not be identical to its
title or head term, such as a full BDB module keyed to Strongs. The use of
Strongs numbers in that case would be purely for the software to find the
correct entry from a Bible tagged with Strongs numbers, not a part of the
actual lexicon entry.

Normally attributes are not displayed, only the content of elements, except
@n in TEI and sometimes @osisID in OSIS genbooks (?). I guess the argument
for displaying them is that you need to know what they are to navigate the
lexicon. I suppose that is a good reason to display the attribute.

Any thoughts? I can change the markup if that is the consensus.

Daniel
On Apr 28, 2012 10:38 AM, Karl Kleinpaste k...@kleinpaste.org wrote:

 I just installed BDBGlosses_Strongs, and I find the formatting choice
 very odd.  Is this inherent to TEI, is it a poor filter implementation,
 or is this a poor choice for how to encode?

 We hardly need the element key repeated twice, once bold and once
 regular, in each element.  What's the point of this?

 Entry source:

 $$$H4899
 entryFree n=H4899titleH4899/title foreign
 xml:lang=heמָשִׁיחַ/foreign hi rend=italicanointed/hi/entryFree

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Re: [sword-devel] TEI formatting, duplicated key (BDB Glosses)

2012-04-28 Thread Daniel Owens

Well, it may be a poor markup choice on my part, but the Strongs modules 
are marked up the same way. I was just following the established pattern.


I can see a couple of reasons to include a title in addition to the key:
- Normally attributes are not displayed, only the content of elements, 
except @n in TEI and sometimes @osisID in OSIS genbooks (?)
- I could see cases in which a lexicon key would not be identical to its 
title or head term, such as a full BDB module keyed to Strongs. The use 
of Strongs numbers in that case would be purely for the software to find 
the correct entry from a Bible tagged with Strongs numbers, not a part 
of the actual lexicon entry.


I guess the argument for displaying them is that you need to know what 
they are to navigate the lexicon. I suppose that is a good reason to 
display the attribute.


Any thoughts? I can change the markup if that is the consensus.

Daniel



On 04/28/2012 10:38 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

I just installed BDBGlosses_Strongs, and I find the formatting choice
very odd.  Is this inherent to TEI, is it a poor filter implementation,
or is this a poor choice for how to encode?


We hardly need the element key repeated twice, once bold and once
regular, in each element.  What's the point of this?

Entry source:

$$$H4899
entryFree n=H4899titleH4899/title  foreign xml:lang=heמָשִׁיחַ/foreign  hi 
rend=italicanointed/hi/entryFree


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Re: [sword-devel] Chinese Strongs markup

2012-04-25 Thread Daniel Owens


David,

This issue crops up in the WHM module because prefixed and suffixed 
morphemes are parsed separately. Here is an example: w 
lemma=strong:lemma1 strong:lemma2 morph=whmmorph:morph1 
whmmorph:morph2 src=1 2וַיְהִ֣י/w. The waw conjunction is parsed 
separately from the verb. I do not think that @src is essential, but it 
might be useful information some day.


Daniel

On 04/25/2012 08:49 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

David,

I'm sorry no (including me) has responded to you on this yet.

We used to use '|' to separate lists in osis in the first rev or so 
(or at least we (CrossWire) used them, until it was pointed out that 
lists in XML (at least in TEI) were delineated with spaces, so the 
lemma and morph attributes on w elements are space separated lists.  
fine, but this doesn't solve your problem.  With '|', I would have 
encoded your example like this:


 eg: Gen.3.8: w lemma=strong:H8085 strong:H853 strong:H3068
 morph=StrongsMorph:H8799[hear]/w

w lemma=strong:H8085|strong:H853|strong:H3068 
morph=StrongsMorph:H8799||[hear]/w


I suppose you could still do that with 2 spaces instead of of the '|', 
but this isn't that it's not simply extraneous spaces in your 
attribute value.


Anyway, the morph list should mirror the lemma list.  How you do that? 
Well, maybe:


w lemma=strong:H8085 strong:H853 strong:H3068 
morph=StrongsMorph:H8799 StrongsMorph:H00 StrongsMorph:H00[hear]/w


(your email to jsword reminding me of this old question from you and 
sparked a possible solution)


Maybe someone else has a better suggestion,

Troy


On 04/12/2012 10:16 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
I'm starting work on correcting some errors in the Chinese Strongs 
markup,

but I want to step carefully cos I'm new to this.
I couldn't find a Wiki page outlining what the rules are for Strongs
markup.
There's a note at
http://crosswire.org/wiki/Modules_in_the_beta_repository/ChiUns
pointing out one problem, but there are many, though it is basically a
very good markup.
It appears to be based on the free KJV markup, though it also notes
every occurrence of the Hebrew article /eth
/This isn't very useful, but it shows that they were keen to include
everything and that they did a lot of work on it.

In order to make sure they include every Hebrew word, they often
combined words in one entry,
eg: Gen.1.2: w lemma=strong:H5921 strong:H6440[on the surface 
of]/w


Sometimes this becomes complicated when one or more of the words is a 
verb,

eg: Gen.2.2: w lemma=strong:H4480 strong:H3605 strong:H834
strong:H6213 morph=StrongsMorph:H8804[rested him from all the]/w
- the numbers represent the words for from all /eth/ and working
- in this case the morphology goes with the last lemma (H6213) but this
isn't always the case.
eg: Gen.3.8: w lemma=strong:H8085 strong:H853 strong:H3068
morph=StrongsMorph:H8799[hear]/w
- the numbers represent: hear /eth /LORD and Qal Imperfect
-in this case the morphology relates to the first of the three lemmas
listed.

I can sort this out, but I'd like to know how to record it
- ie how can I indicate in correct coding that a morphology links with a
particular lemma when more than one lemma is translated by a single 
word?


I notice that the same thing happens in the KJV strongs (though less 
often),

eg Gen.6.3 w lemma=strong:H07683 strong:H01571
morph=strongMorph:TH8800 strongMorph:TH8677for that he also/w

Is it OK to mark such occurrences as follows?
Gen.6.3 w lemma=strong:H07683 morph=strongMorph:TH8800
lemma=strong:H01571 morph=strongMorph:TH8677for that he also/w
This isn't good XML, but perhaps it is allowable?
Or is there some other way to indicate which lemma the morphology
belongs to?

David IB
/// Dr David Instone-Brewer
dib Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament
^ Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK
\=/ rabbin...@tyndale.cam.ac.uk www.TyndaleHouse.com
http://www.tyndalehouse.com/



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Re: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 ....

2012-04-23 Thread Daniel Owens




On 04/23/2012 02:51 PM, Barry Drake wrote:

On 23/04/12 16:17, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I 
needed

to sort the problem.

I'm glad you got sorted it out =
Mixing development repositories, can lead to all sort of weird stuff.


Yes.  Thanks for all the help on this one.  I think it's led me to a 
weird bug in BibleTime though.  Please try this: In Bibletime, open 
the NET bible.  Hover over a footnote.  The footnote is properly 
displayed in the mag.  Now close BibleTime and re-open.  I my case, 
the notes are no longer displayed in the mag until NET is closed and 
re-opened.  Can anyone confirm this?


God bless,

I cannot confirm this in 2.9.1. It works as expected, but I am testing 
only with the NETfree module. I really should buy the whole thing. It is 
a great resource.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] [bt-devel] SWORD 1.7 - Strongs numbers

2012-04-22 Thread Daniel Owens

There is a disambiguation problem for Strongs numbers. This may be a 
markup question, but the engine cannot connect H0001 and 1. The 
current Strong's TEI file has the former but all other modules have the 
latter. As a consequence the BDBGlosses_Strongs does not currently work 
with any Bible module. It would be nice if the engine could work this 
connection out. Otherwise all modules need to conform to the same standard.


Daniel

On 04/21/2012 02:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and 
hope to push out a new release of SWORD.


Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start 
planning.


oI know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current 
filter sets.  Any update or news on that?


oThis is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, 
though they are mostly just a stub right now.  I think I converted 
Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but 
they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin 
XHTML-izing them.  Any frontend develops up for morphing these things 
into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other 
frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as 
well?  Collaboration is important on this one.


oWe had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers.  
The original author of these hasn't been around for a while.  I can 
look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on 
this one.  This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to 
start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code.


oWe still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi 
or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have 
forgotten the details on this one.  I think we talked about it in 
#sword.  I couldn't find a message thread)


I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is 
entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs


But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked 
about.



Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release!

Troy








On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote:

I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together
from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I
used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk
were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time
soon?

God bless, Barry.




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[sword-devel] WLC module questions

2012-04-12 Thread Daniel Owens

I was using the WLC module to test another module, and I discovered a 
couple of things in the WLC:


1. The פ and ס paragraph markers are deleted in favor of actual 
paragraph breaks. The editorial decision to add paragraph markers there 
is reasonable enough (though they are traditionally assumed to be 
different: the first is open, i.e., starting a new paragraph new line, 
and closed, i.e. continuing after a break on the same line). It would be 
nice, though, if the markers were preserved.


2. I also discovered various places where a series of periods are in the 
module. See Genesis 8:13. Why are these there?


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] simple dummy bible module available?

2012-03-14 Thread Daniel Owens

I suggest you use Bibledit. I use it in my scholarship because it is 
very easy to add footnotes and cross-references and then export to a 
SWORD module.


If you did not want to edit within Bibledit, you could create a project 
in Bibledit that creates all the verses and then export to OSIS.


Daniel

On 03/07/2012 10:54 PM, slave of One wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has a dummy bible module available (in the 
rawtext format). I am making my own translation of the Hebrew 
Bible/Old Testament (and Matthew) and would like to simply add my 
translated verses to a pre-formated script or module as I go. I tried 
to Daniel Owens' OSIS example and it didn't work. Something simpler. 
All I really need is the space to add verses as I translate them. Thanks.



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Re: [sword-devel] USFM - OSIS - Sword

2012-03-07 Thread Daniel Owens




On 03/07/2012 02:46 PM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote:

On 03/06/2012 04:12 PM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:



On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:17 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson 
kahunap...@mpj.cx mailto:kahunap...@mpj.cx wrote:


On 03/06/2012 12:47 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:


 1. You accurately preserve all of the original text and
punctuation (including quotation punctuation) exactly as
it was in the original USFM. This involves the complete
process from module creation to display in all front
ends. This is an absolute requirement with respect to
the canonical text. If this condition isn't met, then I
don't have permission to convert these Scriptures to
Sword format, nor do you have such permission.


I'm afraid I do not understand how either you or CrossWire can
ensure that *all* front ends display all text correctly.  I have
no idea from your descriptions whether BPBible or any other
frontends would meet the requirements currently.  However, even
if they did it is conceivable that a new front end is created
which does not meet the requirements.  Does this mean that
CrossWire immediately loses permission to distribute the text
for use in any of the front ends? (including all the front ends
that are compliant, of course).


That is a very good question-- one that I really don't want to
have to raise with the copyright owners!

At a minimum, noncompliant front ends may not use the texts if
they cannot do so without corrupting them.


A couple of things:
1. Non-compliant frontends do not use the text: users do.
2. Non-compliant frontends do not distribute modules: CrossWire (or 
some other organisation) does.


Blame-shifting is not productive. Quality control at all stages in the 
complete system from Bible translator to user is productive.





I'm not talking about getting all of the formatting correct. I'm
just talking about exactly preserving all text and punctuation of
the canonical text. If a front end cannot do that, it should be
withdrawn from public distribution, as it is clearly a threat to
our ability to distribute Scriptures. Actually, there is a
greater threat that copyrights: the fear of God. I wouldn't want
to be caught dead or alive corrupting the Holy Bible. I would
think that you wouldn't, either. It is a fearsome thing to fall
into the hands of God when He is angry.


All of this assumes knowledge of errors.  Unless you manually test 
every verse of every Bible in every frontend, some could display a 
result different from what you expected.  I know that at different 
times I have seen some unusual bugs.

A few (real world) cases:
1. A bug in BPBible meant that when Strong's Numbers were displayed, 
some verses in the Chinese would not display.
2. A bug in encoding meant opening a Bible to a particular chapter 
would raise an error message.

3. Incorrect font usage meant that the text displayed completely wrongly.

When these bugs are encountered and reported, we will fix them, but I 
cannot write (consistently) bug-free code and I don't think I've ever 
met a developer who can.  Certainly a fairly high percentage of the 
module rendering errors that are reported to me in BPBible are caused 
by modules I had never used (often in languages I did not know), and 
where for whatever reason my assumptions were wrong.


I understand the limitations of imperfect human programmers. What I 
expect is that:


  * Each part of the whole Bible study software system from
translation to module creation to back end development to front
end display is carefully designed to correctly handle Bible texts
without corruption.
  * Reasonable care is taken by everyone involved to ensure that the
implementations are correct.
  * Reasonable testing is done.
  * High priority is given to correcting any problems that result in
corruption of the text.

This is not unreasonable, is it?


Responding as a module creator...

I understand and share your desire to have Bible translations rendered 
faithfully (not corrupted - we're not talking about SWORD corrupting 
your data but rather failing to render it faithfully). And I think your 
expectations above are reasonable. The developers work hard to make sure 
the software works correctly. I think the conversation about headings in 
the past few days has shown this. However, at the end of the day, the 
module creator is responsible to ensure that these expectations are met.


You are responsible to make sure that your markup produces the desired 
result and that adequate testing is done. I suggest testing as broadly 
as you can, at a minimum testing in BibleTime, Xiphos, BibleDesktop, and 
BibleCS. I think that should cover the main rendering methods.


If something essential is not yet supported, you can lobby for it and 
refrain from submitting a module until your desired

[sword-devel] Parallel display of modules with diverse v11n

2012-03-06 Thread Daniel Owens

As many are likely aware, the Verity Project has produced a program that 
displays the NET and WLC in parallel with the verses lining up properly 
(at least where I have tested it). Many of the building blocks are there 
to do that in SWORD, and Peter mentioned there are efforts in the works 
to do that.


Can I help in any way?

Daniel


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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens


  
  
I did some testing of several of the major front-ends (sorry, I do
not have a Mac or iPhone). I posted the results at

http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample#Level_of_Support_by_Front-ends.


Overall feature support is strongest in BPBible, followed by
BibleTime and Xiphos tied for second. Then comes BibleCS,
BibleDesktop, and AndBible. 

That can partly be explained by the fact that BibleDesktop and
AndBible do not display book introductions (that is a reasonable
choice for AndBible). However, both support parallel titles (for
synoptic passages in the Gospels) and canonical psalm titles (as
does BPBible). But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS simply do not
display the text of Canonical psalm titles. That is a severe bug. 

As a novice module creator several years ago, this diversity almost
drove me crazy. I guess now at least module creators can know what
features are likely to work well, but it would be nice if front-ends
worked on supporting some of these features, even if the text is
passed through as plain text, such as canonical psalm titles.
Nothing like that should be omitted, even if the display is not
anything special. 

One last note, variants do not work correctly in any front-end,
which tells me the markup is not right. If anyone can provide a
correction to the markup, please let me know. 

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 01:18 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

  Hey,

this is great news. Thank you.

If the rendering produced by xiphos or bibletime is at least some sort of 
acceptable I'll change the module I'm developing at the moment to use the 
syntax. Mostly additions, removals and alternatives are affected.

Thanks again,
Patrick

On Sunday, 4. March 2012 01:59:15 Daniel Owens wrote:

  
Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible,
I put together an example OSIS "Bible" that validates and is consistent
with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles (
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is mostly
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the KJV can
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV illustrates
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to deal with
paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages: title
- Book introduction
- List: list, item
- Table: table, row, cell
- Bold and italic text: hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology: w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references: note, reference
- Marked additions: transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms): title type="psalm" canonical="true"
- Poetry markup: lg, l
- Divine Name: seg, divineName
- Variants: seg type="x-variant" subType="x-1"
- Abbreviations: abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when
I have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say,
no one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features
(such as variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since
it is not a complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be
ignored, but most front-ends displayed the "New Testament" title at the
bottom of Psalm 3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see
how their front-end handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled
module to those who are interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens



On 03/04/2012 04:24 PM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote:

On 03/04/2012 11:08 AM, Daniel Owens wrote:

But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS simply do not display the text of Canonical 
psalm titles. That is a severe bug.

Wow. That is a scary bug! I guess that means that for now, it is not OK to use

title type=psalm canonical=true

I would not use it. Just a simple title works fine. For the time being, 
this may be one of those attributes to filter out before compiling.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens


Greg,

Take a look at the OSIS file and the compiled module at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/Home/test.zip?attredirects=0d=1. 



Just to be sure that I was not making an outlandish claim, I deleted 
type=psalm canonical=true from the title element, compiled the 
module, and BibleTime showed the title. I added them back in and 
compiled again, and the title disappeared.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:28 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

Do you have a compiled version of the module up anywhere? I'm very
surprised by the claim that Xiphos, BibleTime, and BibleCS do not
support canonical titles.

--Greg

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Daniel Owensdhow...@pmbx.net  wrote:

Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible, I
put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is consistent with
the wiki page on OSIS Bibles ( http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles).
The text itself is mostly KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more
than what the KJV can by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because
the KJV illustrates the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea
how to deal with paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references:note,reference
- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when I
have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say, no
one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features (such as
variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since it is not a
complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be ignored, but
most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the bottom of Psalm
3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see how their front-end
handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled module to those who are
interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens

That is wonderful news. I have not been updating to the nightly build 
for awhile, so I downloaded the latest, but the test module does not 
display at all. I am not sure what to make of that, but it is a rather 
unorthodox module in that it only has a little bit of content.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:32 PM, DM Smith wrote:
The next release of Bible Desktop supports/displays book and chapter 
introductions. It is available now as a nightly build. How well the 
nightly build works on any given day is possibly broken.


AndBible will probably support it once JSword is released.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

I did some testing of several of the major front-ends (sorry, I do 
not have a Mac or iPhone). I posted the results at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample#Level_of_Support_by_Front-ends. 



Overall feature support is strongest in BPBible, followed by 
BibleTime and Xiphos tied for second. Then comes BibleCS, 
BibleDesktop, and AndBible.


That can partly be explained by the fact that BibleDesktop and 
AndBible do not display book introductions (that is a reasonable 
choice for AndBible). However, both support parallel titles (for 
synoptic passages in the Gospels) and canonical psalm titles (as does 
BPBible). But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS simply do not display 
the text of Canonical psalm titles. That is a severe bug.


As a novice module creator several years ago, this diversity almost 
drove me crazy. I guess now at least module creators can know what 
features are likely to work well, but it would be nice if front-ends 
worked on supporting some of these features, even if the text is 
passed through as plain text, such as canonical psalm titles. Nothing 
like that should be omitted, even if the display is not anything 
special.


One last note, variants do not work correctly in any front-end, which 
tells me the markup is not right. If anyone can provide a correction 
to the markup, please let me know.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 01:18 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

Hey,

this is great news. Thank you.

If the rendering produced by xiphos or bibletime is at least some sort of
acceptable I'll change the module I'm developing at the moment to use the
syntax. Mostly additions, removals and alternatives are affected.

Thanks again,
Patrick

On Sunday, 4. March 2012 01:59:15 Daniel Owens wrote:

Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible,
I put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is consistent
with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles (
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is mostly
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the KJV can
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV illustrates
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to deal with
paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references:note,reference
- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when
I have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say,
no one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features
(such as variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since
it is not a complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be
ignored, but most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the
bottom of Psalm 3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see
how their front-end handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled
module to those who are interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens

A couple of additional clarifications: I am running vanilla SWORD on 
Linux Mint, so I am running osis2mod rev 2478. Also, this module has 
content in Gen 1:1-5, Ps 3:1-2, and Mark 1:14-15.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 05:14 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

Greg,

Take a look at the OSIS file and the compiled module at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/Home/test.zip?attredirects=0d=1. 



Just to be sure that I was not making an outlandish claim, I deleted 
type=psalm canonical=true from the title element, compiled the 
module, and BibleTime showed the title. I added them back in and 
compiled again, and the title disappeared.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:28 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

Do you have a compiled version of the module up anywhere? I'm very
surprised by the claim that Xiphos, BibleTime, and BibleCS do not
support canonical titles.

--Greg

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Daniel Owensdhow...@pmbx.net  wrote:
Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS 
Bible, I
put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is 
consistent with
the wiki page on OSIS Bibles ( 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles).
The text itself is mostly KJV text, with a little Hebrew to 
illustrate more
than what the KJV can by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure 
because
the KJV illustrates the BCV structure well already, and I have no 
idea idea

how to deal with paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references:note,reference
- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email 
when I
have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to 
say, no
one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features 
(such as
variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since it is 
not a
complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be ignored, 
but
most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the bottom of 
Psalm
3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see how their 
front-end

handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled module to those who are
interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens

Gosh, that would explain a few things. :) My shell script creating the 
zipped module was faulty. I fixed that AND tested it in another SWORD 
installation, so the module at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/Home/test.zip?attredirects=0d=1 
should now work. I apologize for the hasty upload.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 05:36 PM, DM Smith wrote:

Daniel,
I downloaded the module from the link you provided, but it was missing some 
files. It only had the vss files (index files) and no data files.
DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:


That is wonderful news. I have not been updating to the nightly build for 
awhile, so I downloaded the latest, but the test module does not display at 
all. I am not sure what to make of that, but it is a rather unorthodox module 
in that it only has a little bit of content.

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:32 PM, DM Smith wrote:

The next release of Bible Desktop supports/displays book and chapter 
introductions. It is available now as a nightly build. How well the nightly 
build works on any given day is possibly broken.

AndBible will probably support it once JSword is released.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:


I did some testing of several of the major front-ends (sorry, I do not have a 
Mac or iPhone). I posted the results at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample#Level_of_Support_by_Front-ends.

Overall feature support is strongest in BPBible, followed by BibleTime and 
Xiphos tied for second. Then comes BibleCS, BibleDesktop, and AndBible.

That can partly be explained by the fact that BibleDesktop and AndBible do not 
display book introductions (that is a reasonable choice for AndBible). However, 
both support parallel titles (for synoptic passages in the Gospels) and 
canonical psalm titles (as does BPBible). But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS 
simply do not display the text of Canonical psalm titles. That is a severe bug.

As a novice module creator several years ago, this diversity almost drove me 
crazy. I guess now at least module creators can know what features are likely 
to work well, but it would be nice if front-ends worked on supporting some of 
these features, even if the text is passed through as plain text, such as 
canonical psalm titles. Nothing like that should be omitted, even if the 
display is not anything special.

One last note, variants do not work correctly in any front-end, which tells me 
the markup is not right. If anyone can provide a correction to the markup, 
please let me know.

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 01:18 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

Hey,

this is great news. Thank you.

If the rendering produced by xiphos or bibletime is at least some sort of
acceptable I'll change the module I'm developing at the moment to use the
syntax. Mostly additions, removals and alternatives are affected.

Thanks again,
Patrick

On Sunday, 4. March 2012 01:59:15 Daniel Owens wrote:

Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible,
I put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is consistent
with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles (
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is mostly
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the KJV can
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV illustrates
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to deal with
paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references:note,reference
- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when
I have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say,
no one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features
(such as variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since
it is not a complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be
ignored, but most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the
bottom of Psalm 3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see
how their front-end handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled
module to those who are interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens


On 03/04/2012 06:09 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

Daniel Owensdhow...@pmbx.net  writes:
U... In a fit of freakishness I had not anticipated at all, I just 
discovered 2 minutes ago that Xiphos has never offered variant support 
for OSIS at all; the conditional to find variants looked only for 
ThML. This has apparently been an oversight since The Dawn Of 
Net.Time. I've fixed it and am running the updated build, so now I can 
select primary -vs- secondary again from Xiphos' context menu. But 
doing so has no effect on the content, which looks...odd. See 
screenshot from Tisch: 
http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/tisch-osisvariants-luke.3.35.png The 
secondary, which places a leading accent on Ραγαῦ, is displayed /along 
with/ the primary, as though it was a sort of lemma. This is very 
wrong, and is very specifically a filter problem.
I noticed this very verse after using mod2osis to see how the Tisch 
module handles variants, and it outputs as this:


w lemma=strong:G4466 lemma.Strong:Ῥαγαῦ lemma.ANLEX:Ῥαγαύ 
variant.Qere:Ῥαγαῦ morph=robinson:N-PRIΡαγαῦ/w


This is strange markup indeed, but I was not able to find any other kind 
of variant markup in that module. I may check the other modules you 
mention.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens


Sounds like fun. :(

Back to testing with BD 1.6, I rearranged some of the markup to get it 
into the text of the Bible to test more properly, and BD jumped to the 
top of the list with BPBible in terms of feature support. I just had not 
constructed the test file in the most fair way. It should be better now.


I also added a picture, following Patrick's lead. A new compiled module 
is up at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/Home/test.zip?attredirects=0d=1.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 07:33 PM, DM Smith wrote:

Some really weird stuff going on here in the nightly build of BD. I found Gen 1 
in Matt 1, Mark 1 in Genesis chapter 36. Looked through the entire module and 
didn't find Psalms.

Looks like JSword nightly flipped the two testaments.

I have something to look forward to this week.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:


That is wonderful news. I have not been updating to the nightly build for 
awhile, so I downloaded the latest, but the test module does not display at 
all. I am not sure what to make of that, but it is a rather unorthodox module 
in that it only has a little bit of content.

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:32 PM, DM Smith wrote:

The next release of Bible Desktop supports/displays book and chapter 
introductions. It is available now as a nightly build. How well the nightly 
build works on any given day is possibly broken.

AndBible will probably support it once JSword is released.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:


I did some testing of several of the major front-ends (sorry, I do not have a 
Mac or iPhone). I posted the results at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample#Level_of_Support_by_Front-ends.

Overall feature support is strongest in BPBible, followed by BibleTime and 
Xiphos tied for second. Then comes BibleCS, BibleDesktop, and AndBible.

That can partly be explained by the fact that BibleDesktop and AndBible do not 
display book introductions (that is a reasonable choice for AndBible). However, 
both support parallel titles (for synoptic passages in the Gospels) and 
canonical psalm titles (as does BPBible). But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS 
simply do not display the text of Canonical psalm titles. That is a severe bug.

As a novice module creator several years ago, this diversity almost drove me 
crazy. I guess now at least module creators can know what features are likely 
to work well, but it would be nice if front-ends worked on supporting some of 
these features, even if the text is passed through as plain text, such as 
canonical psalm titles. Nothing like that should be omitted, even if the 
display is not anything special.

One last note, variants do not work correctly in any front-end, which tells me 
the markup is not right. If anyone can provide a correction to the markup, 
please let me know.

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 01:18 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

Hey,

this is great news. Thank you.

If the rendering produced by xiphos or bibletime is at least some sort of
acceptable I'll change the module I'm developing at the moment to use the
syntax. Mostly additions, removals and alternatives are affected.

Thanks again,
Patrick

On Sunday, 4. March 2012 01:59:15 Daniel Owens wrote:

Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible,
I put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is consistent
with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles (
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is mostly
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the KJV can
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV illustrates
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to deal with
paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references:note,reference
- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when
I have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say,
no one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features
(such as variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since
it is not a complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be
ignored, but most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the
bottom of Psalm 3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see
how their front-end handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled
module to those who are interested.

Feedback is welcome. If I have

Re: [sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-04 Thread Daniel Owens


Thanks to everyone for responding earnestly to this.

Daniel

On 03/04/2012 08:07 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

OK Guys,

I spent a little time on this tonight.

I've reworked OSISHeadings to be sane.  It was an old filter and 
parsed everything manually; it had never been updated to extend and 
take advantage of SWBasicFilter.  It is much shorter and fairly well 
commented now.  I'm not promising it works, but it should be readable 
by anyone who wants to tweak it.


In fact, I may have broken everything :)  So please test.  Or it may 
just work for both old style and new style preverse chunks-- that was 
my goal.


Karl, I tried it on the new KJV and got stuff out from RenderText.

Daniel, it outputs stuff from your OSIS Reference module.  I'm not 
sure it's the right stuff :)


I started an OSIS test in our testsuite.  It starts by creating a 
module from our new OSIS Reference document and then proceeds to run a 
single test to check if RenderText will output something from the 
preverse div in Ps.3.1.


Hope this is a good start.

Troy





On 03/05/2012 02:33 AM, DM Smith wrote:
Some really weird stuff going on here in the nightly build of BD. I 
found Gen 1 in Matt 1, Mark 1 in Genesis chapter 36. Looked through 
the entire module and didn't find Psalms.


Looks like JSword nightly flipped the two testaments.

I have something to look forward to this week.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

That is wonderful news. I have not been updating to the nightly 
build for awhile, so I downloaded the latest, but the test module 
does not display at all. I am not sure what to make of that, but it 
is a rather unorthodox module in that it only has a little bit of 
content.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 04:32 PM, DM Smith wrote:
The next release of Bible Desktop supports/displays book and 
chapter introductions. It is available now as a nightly build. How 
well the nightly build works on any given day is possibly broken.


AndBible will probably support it once JSword is released.

-- DM

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Daniel Owens wrote:

I did some testing of several of the major front-ends (sorry, I do 
not have a Mac or iPhone). I posted the results at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample#Level_of_Support_by_Front-ends.


Overall feature support is strongest in BPBible, followed by 
BibleTime and Xiphos tied for second. Then comes BibleCS, 
BibleDesktop, and AndBible.


That can partly be explained by the fact that BibleDesktop and 
AndBible do not display book introductions (that is a reasonable 
choice for AndBible). However, both support parallel titles (for 
synoptic passages in the Gospels) and canonical psalm titles (as 
does BPBible). But BibleTime, Xiphos, and BibleCS simply do not 
display the text of Canonical psalm titles. That is a severe bug.


As a novice module creator several years ago, this diversity 
almost drove me crazy. I guess now at least module creators can 
know what features are likely to work well, but it would be nice 
if front-ends worked on supporting some of these features, even if 
the text is passed through as plain text, such as canonical psalm 
titles. Nothing like that should be omitted, even if the display 
is not anything special.


One last note, variants do not work correctly in any front-end, 
which tells me the markup is not right. If anyone can provide a 
correction to the markup, please let me know.


Daniel

On 03/04/2012 01:18 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

Hey,

this is great news. Thank you.

If the rendering produced by xiphos or bibletime is at least some 
sort of
acceptable I'll change the module I'm developing at the moment to 
use the

syntax. Mostly additions, removals and alternatives are affected.

Thanks again,
Patrick

On Sunday, 4. March 2012 01:59:15 Daniel Owens wrote:
Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example 
OSIS Bible,
I put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is 
consistent

with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles (
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is 
mostly
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the 
KJV can
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV 
illustrates
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to 
deal with

paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.

You can find the example file and the following list of features at
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:

- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages:title
- Book introduction
- List:list,item
- Table:table,row,cell
- Bold and italic text:hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology:w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and 
cross-references:note,reference

- Marked additions:transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms):title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup:lg,l
- Divine Name:seg,divineName
- Variants:seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations:abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I

[sword-devel] OSIS example

2012-03-03 Thread Daniel Owens

Based on varied sources, including Patrick's helpful example OSIS Bible, 
I put together an example OSIS Bible that validates and is consistent 
with the wiki page on OSIS Bibles ( 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles). The text itself is mostly 
KJV text, with a little Hebrew to illustrate more than what the KJV can 
by itself. I chose to use the BSP structure because the KJV illustrates 
the BCV structure well already, and I have no idea idea how to deal with 
paragraphs and poetry in the BCV structure.


You can find the example file and the following list of features at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample:


- BookGroup and section titles, including parallel passages: title
- Book introduction
- List: list, item
- Table: table, row, cell
- Bold and italic text: hi
- Strong's numbers, lemma, and morphology: w, @lemma, @morph
- Notes, including study notes and cross-references: note, reference
- Marked additions: transChange
- Canonical title (Psalms): title type=psalm canonical=true
- Poetry markup: lg, l
- Divine Name: seg, divineName
- Variants: seg type=x-variant subType=x-1
- Abbreviations: abbr

I compiled and tested the module, and I will send a separate email when 
I have a chance to record the results systematically. Suffice it to say, 
no one front-end supports all of the markup well, and some features 
(such as variants and tables) are conspicuously poorly supported. Since 
it is not a complete text of the KJV, some odd display issues should be 
ignored, but most front-ends displayed the New Testament title at the 
bottom of Psalm 3. It would be lovely if front-end developers would see 
how their front-end handles it (or doesn't). I can send a compiled 
module to those who are interested.


Feedback is welcome. If I have missed something or used less-than-ideal 
markup, please let me know, and we can change it.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] preverse divs

2012-03-01 Thread Daniel Owens

Hmmm, that sounds like a tantalizing assignment, that is, if developers 
pay attention. :)


Such a document would need to have excerpts from various parts of the 
Bible, including especially the Psalms and the Gospels since between 
them several of the odd markup issues show up. If someone were to 
generate that, module developers would rise up and call us blessed only 
if the markup was rendered as expected.


I may take a stab at it.

Daniel

On 03/01/2012 02:18 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Patrick,

Well, the KJV2003 project would have been my idea fore best practices 
markup for OSIS, but it now lives at the KJV2006 and I would guess now 
represents DM's idea of best practices for OSIS markup :)


The tutorials also were meant to iterate the most used features of 
OSIS to give an example of best practice markup for that feature.  We 
should include a link to a concise, representative, validating OSIS 
document which includes all of these features.


Anyone up for the task?

Troy


On 02/29/2012 07:23 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

On Wednesday, 29. February 2012 15:29:31 Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

On 02/29/2012 01:21 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

Ok,

Just my 2p to the matter:

There are several versions of osis2mod about which produce different
results.

I learned the hard way that other than by adding x-preverse to most
titles etc things do NOT work.


Dear Peter,

If you ever find that you need to manually add x-preverse to your OSIS
text before importing then a bug should be raised either here or in 
jira

about what standard OSIS markup doesn't get imported correctly via
osis2mod.

I realize often you just need to get something to work quickly, but 
this

doesn't help us solve the core problem moving forward.

The clear specification is OSIS.  You should never need to add any
custom tags to your document.  Again, that's the goal in a perfect
world.  I believe we have somewhere a 'best practices' document for 
OSIS

markup which is know to work with osis2mod.



Hello Troy,

Do you know where that 'best practices' document is? I have been eagerly
searching for one in vain some time ago. I thus started my own 
showcase OSIS
module which produces terrible output for much of the syntax it tries 
to show.
If there is such a document already, I can gladly throw my miserable 
approach

away.

Patrick



We have about 5 OSIS
tutorials floating around and I'm not sure what state they are all in,
but they should probably be clean up to give you what you ask for 
below,

'a clear specification to work to'.

http://crosswire.org/osis/tutor.jsp
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Tutorial
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Commentaries
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Genbooks


Troy

But recently things have become more broken and it has become a 
mess to

figure out.

It is not all engine as modules produced in different times have
different level of properness.

It would be great if we as module makers had a clear specification to
work to - whatever that is - and then could dump the module into
osis2mod and get a working module.

At the moment we do not.

Peter

 Original-Nachricht 


Datum: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 12:39:19 +0100
Von: Troy A. Griffittsscr...@crosswire.org
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forumsword-devel@crosswire.org
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] preverse divs

I don't know what's wrong except what I noted in the previous 
post: that

there is something wrong.

I want to clear up one thing that seems to be a general
misunderstanding:

Module makers should never care or know about x-preverse.
They should make their module how they think best conforms to the 
OSIS

specification.
osis2mod will add the x-preverse div to the section it things 
should be

associated with a verse but display before the verse marker.

 in a perfect world anyway.  That's the goal, at least, and
depending on who's reverted whom's revert, it might work that way 
now.


On 02/29/2012 11:09 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Hi Troy,

I just tried wrapping the first section title for Matt.1.1 as
follows:

div type=section
div type=x-milestone subType=x-preverse sID=pv1/
titleLignez Jezuz/title
div type=x-milestone subType=x-preverse eID=pv1/
verse sID=Matt.1.1 osisID=Matt.1.1/
Levr lignez Jezuz-Krist, Mab David, Mab Abraham.
verse eID=Matt.1.1/

After rebuilding the module, the title Lignez Jezuz had 
disappeared


when

viewed with *Xiphos 3.1.5* (in Windows).  In its place there 
seemed to


be an


extra space.

It was there before, albeit displayed after the verse tag.

So what's wrong?

cf. In *BibleDesktop 1.6*, the same title is still displayed, and 
still

after the verse tag and a line break.

The phrase not yet supported seems to be a considerable


understatement.


Regards,

David

--



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Re: [sword-devel] preverse divs

2012-03-01 Thread Daniel Owens

Not sure if my initial email went through, but I will take up the task 
of creating an example OSIS document. I started one at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BCVExample. It probably does 
not validate yet, so don't jump on me yet. I need to go but will work 
more on it later. I will eventually add an example with the other 
structure.


Daniel

On 03/01/2012 02:18 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Patrick,

Well, the KJV2003 project would have been my idea fore best practices 
markup for OSIS, but it now lives at the KJV2006 and I would guess now 
represents DM's idea of best practices for OSIS markup :)


The tutorials also were meant to iterate the most used features of 
OSIS to give an example of best practice markup for that feature.  We 
should include a link to a concise, representative, validating OSIS 
document which includes all of these features.


Anyone up for the task?

Troy


On 02/29/2012 07:23 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote:

On Wednesday, 29. February 2012 15:29:31 Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

On 02/29/2012 01:21 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

Ok,

Just my 2p to the matter:

There are several versions of osis2mod about which produce different
results.

I learned the hard way that other than by adding x-preverse to most
titles etc things do NOT work.


Dear Peter,

If you ever find that you need to manually add x-preverse to your OSIS
text before importing then a bug should be raised either here or in 
jira

about what standard OSIS markup doesn't get imported correctly via
osis2mod.

I realize often you just need to get something to work quickly, but 
this

doesn't help us solve the core problem moving forward.

The clear specification is OSIS.  You should never need to add any
custom tags to your document.  Again, that's the goal in a perfect
world.  I believe we have somewhere a 'best practices' document for 
OSIS

markup which is know to work with osis2mod.



Hello Troy,

Do you know where that 'best practices' document is? I have been eagerly
searching for one in vain some time ago. I thus started my own 
showcase OSIS
module which produces terrible output for much of the syntax it tries 
to show.
If there is such a document already, I can gladly throw my miserable 
approach

away.

Patrick



We have about 5 OSIS
tutorials floating around and I'm not sure what state they are all in,
but they should probably be clean up to give you what you ask for 
below,

'a clear specification to work to'.

http://crosswire.org/osis/tutor.jsp
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Tutorial
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Commentaries
http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Genbooks


Troy

But recently things have become more broken and it has become a 
mess to

figure out.

It is not all engine as modules produced in different times have
different level of properness.

It would be great if we as module makers had a clear specification to
work to - whatever that is - and then could dump the module into
osis2mod and get a working module.

At the moment we do not.

Peter

 Original-Nachricht 


Datum: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 12:39:19 +0100
Von: Troy A. Griffittsscr...@crosswire.org
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forumsword-devel@crosswire.org
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] preverse divs

I don't know what's wrong except what I noted in the previous 
post: that

there is something wrong.

I want to clear up one thing that seems to be a general
misunderstanding:

Module makers should never care or know about x-preverse.
They should make their module how they think best conforms to the 
OSIS

specification.
osis2mod will add the x-preverse div to the section it things 
should be

associated with a verse but display before the verse marker.

 in a perfect world anyway.  That's the goal, at least, and
depending on who's reverted whom's revert, it might work that way 
now.


On 02/29/2012 11:09 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Hi Troy,

I just tried wrapping the first section title for Matt.1.1 as
follows:

div type=section
div type=x-milestone subType=x-preverse sID=pv1/
titleLignez Jezuz/title
div type=x-milestone subType=x-preverse eID=pv1/
verse sID=Matt.1.1 osisID=Matt.1.1/
Levr lignez Jezuz-Krist, Mab David, Mab Abraham.
verse eID=Matt.1.1/

After rebuilding the module, the title Lignez Jezuz had 
disappeared


when

viewed with *Xiphos 3.1.5* (in Windows).  In its place there 
seemed to


be an


extra space.

It was there before, albeit displayed after the verse tag.

So what's wrong?

cf. In *BibleDesktop 1.6*, the same title is still displayed, and 
still

after the verse tag and a line break.

The phrase not yet supported seems to be a considerable


understatement.


Regards,

David

--



View this message in context:
http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/preverse-divs-tp4429131p4431114.ht 


ml


Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [sword-devel] lang processing

2012-02-12 Thread Daniel Owens

Some form of font instructions is beneficial for certain languages to 
make life easier for non-power users and other situations. The first 
scenario is obvious—most people would like Hebrew or Greek or whatever 
to display correctly right out of the box. Incidentally, I had a 
colleague email me the other day about disabling Hebrew vowel pointing 
in BibleTime. The way to do that is easy, but he just didn't think to 
click on the proper icon. Font settings are usually slightly more 
buried, so it would be great if modules could specify and install a font 
with the module.


I can also envision another scenario, that is, when a front-end does not 
give the option of configuring fonts. I was getting used to AndBible 
recently and discovered that the SBLGNT module specified a font and 
included it somehow. I hacked the OSMHB conf file to specify SBL Hebrew, 
and it displays more reasonably now (minus vowel pointing, unfortunately).


This is one way a module creator can encourage a positive reception of a 
module and the SWORD front-end. It is an enhancement for the sake of the 
user experience.


Daniel

On 02/12/2012 10:19 AM, scribe...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for delineating the discussion, DM.

I would certainly be in favor of discussing the possible enhancement to our 
filters (or import tools) for providing language span tags around segments of 
language text not included in the default module language unicode plane, per 
the BPBible team's suggestion and possibly their code :)

And I know you guys enjoy proclaiming me wrong (Peter), but I can't remember 
recently defending the font= property in the .conf files. This was useful 20 
years ago when it was added, before our non-English Bibles became unicode 
encoded. :)  But certainly isn't ideal now. It's still a fine convention if a 
user or module author wishes to specify a preferred default module font, so I'm 
not suggesting we remove it, but it certainly doesn't handle per-language font 
suggestions in its current incarnation.

Troy



DM Smithdmsm...@crosswire.org  wrote:


This has evolved a bit from the original question: should the engine
provide direct support for n=X footnote markers.
The answer to that was yes and it was implemented as an optional
change.

We've digressed into several distinct discussions. Here are my comments
on them:
1) What is the importance of what the desires of the publisher and
whether that can be known.
Regarding footnote markers, JSword's frontends use the value of the n
attribute when present because the footnotes are rendered on the screen
as margin notes. If the n attribute is not present we generate a unique
value for each one on the page. It fits well with desktop applications,
but not perhaps when the notes are not present in the user's view such
as on a phone.

2) Separation of structure and presentation.
I think we have agreed in the past that these should continue be
separate. What we have not come to agreement on is how to allow for a
publisher to provide for rich presentation. We have noted that using
class attributes in the render filters would enable such a future, but
no one has stepped up to doing it.

But the landscape of the device (size, dimension and resolution of the
viewport/screen/window/frame) is a crucial part of any presentation and
it precludes a one size fits all presentation style.

I really don't like when a publisher works toward a single frontend as
it may use features that only work for that frontend.

3) Needs/weaknesses of the frontends. E.g. font.
I'm wondering whether it makes sense for CrossWire to host the fonts
that are specified in the modules it hosts and SWORD be modified to
download such a font on demand. That is it'd be a feature of a
repository.

Regarding lang=XX it (the two letter code) works well for languages
that only have one script, such as English, Greek and Hebrew. But not
for those that have multiple scripts. It needs to be extended to
include script. I think that the multi-language modules should
copiously specify the language/script of the elements. Osis2mod should
be modified to push these down into the verse entries if needed.
Likewise for gen books and dictionary module makers.

In Him,
DM

On Feb 12, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:


Hi,

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Peter von Kaehneref...@gmx.net

wrote:

On 12/02/12 04:27, Greg Hellings wrote:

Still more of it was very
important for display - selection of different fonts for Greek vs
Hebrew vs Aramaic displays.

I do not follow the general discussion very much - but this really

got

my notice.

I think the current Font item in the configuration file is a bit of a
cludge - it does not work when a font is not actually present, it can
not deal with font families, alternatives etc and it certainly can

not

provide a selection for multiscripture texts.

FWIW, the way BPBible does it is to scan through a text, identify all

Hebrew/Greek text, and wrap them in additional spans likespan

Re: [sword-devel] proposed patch: adding n=X marker content to footnotes and xrefs

2012-02-12 Thread Daniel Owens


On 02/11/2012 09:27 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
What I have tried to propose before with CSS, and what Karl has 
proposed here with footnote and cross-reference notes is that the 
application ought to provide good defaults (generated cross-reference 
and footnote markers when they are lacking) but to honor the module 
creator's request when it is given. 


I am not aware of what the downside is to this, but as a module-creator 
I want more control over how things display, and as a user I want to be 
able to cite a source as precisely as possible. Providing the option to 
display the footnote label as indicated serves both interests.


What I am not clear about is what the downside to this philosophy is.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] lang processing

2012-02-12 Thread Daniel Owens

Some form of font instructions is beneficial for certain languages to 
make life easier for non-power users and other situations. Sometimes a 
front-end does not give the option of configuring fonts. I was getting 
used to AndBible recently and discovered that the SBLGNT module 
specified a font and included it somehow. I modified the OSMHB conf file 
to specify SBL Hebrew, and it displays more reasonably now (minus vowel 
pointing, unfortunately). When I created that module, I was not aware 
that I could specify a font. This is one way a module creator can 
encourage a positive reception of a module and the SWORD front-end. It 
is an enhancement for the sake of the user experience.


Daniel

On 02/12/2012 10:19 AM, scribe...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for delineating the discussion, DM.

I would certainly be in favor of discussing the possible enhancement to our 
filters (or import tools) for providing language span tags around segments of 
language text not included in the default module language unicode plane, per 
the BPBible team's suggestion and possibly their code :)

And I know you guys enjoy proclaiming me wrong (Peter), but I can't remember 
recently defending the font= property in the .conf files. This was useful 20 
years ago when it was added, before our non-English Bibles became unicode 
encoded. :)  But certainly isn't ideal now. It's still a fine convention if a 
user or module author wishes to specify a preferred default module font, so I'm 
not suggesting we remove it, but it certainly doesn't handle per-language font 
suggestions in its current incarnation.

Troy



DM Smithdmsm...@crosswire.org  wrote:


This has evolved a bit from the original question: should the engine
provide direct support for n=X footnote markers.
The answer to that was yes and it was implemented as an optional
change.

We've digressed into several distinct discussions. Here are my comments
on them:
1) What is the importance of what the desires of the publisher and
whether that can be known.
Regarding footnote markers, JSword's frontends use the value of the n
attribute when present because the footnotes are rendered on the screen
as margin notes. If the n attribute is not present we generate a unique
value for each one on the page. It fits well with desktop applications,
but not perhaps when the notes are not present in the user's view such
as on a phone.

2) Separation of structure and presentation.
I think we have agreed in the past that these should continue be
separate. What we have not come to agreement on is how to allow for a
publisher to provide for rich presentation. We have noted that using
class attributes in the render filters would enable such a future, but
no one has stepped up to doing it.

But the landscape of the device (size, dimension and resolution of the
viewport/screen/window/frame) is a crucial part of any presentation and
it precludes a one size fits all presentation style.

I really don't like when a publisher works toward a single frontend as
it may use features that only work for that frontend.

3) Needs/weaknesses of the frontends. E.g. font.
I'm wondering whether it makes sense for CrossWire to host the fonts
that are specified in the modules it hosts and SWORD be modified to
download such a font on demand. That is it'd be a feature of a
repository.

Regarding lang=XX it (the two letter code) works well for languages
that only have one script, such as English, Greek and Hebrew. But not
for those that have multiple scripts. It needs to be extended to
include script. I think that the multi-language modules should
copiously specify the language/script of the elements. Osis2mod should
be modified to push these down into the verse entries if needed.
Likewise for gen books and dictionary module makers.

In Him,
DM

On Feb 12, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:


Hi,

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Peter von Kaehneref...@gmx.net

wrote:

On 12/02/12 04:27, Greg Hellings wrote:

Still more of it was very
important for display - selection of different fonts for Greek vs
Hebrew vs Aramaic displays.

I do not follow the general discussion very much - but this really

got

my notice.

I think the current Font item in the configuration file is a bit of a
cludge - it does not work when a font is not actually present, it can
not deal with font families, alternatives etc and it certainly can

not

provide a selection for multiscripture texts.

FWIW, the way BPBible does it is to scan through a text, identify all

Hebrew/Greek text, and wrap them in additional spans likespan
lang=he.  It will then use the font specified by the user for that
particular language.  Due to the implementation, this would probably
end up with a more specific rule than anything in the CSS, which may be
a drawback (especially since the default will probably be the default
font for the entire application).  However, it does mean that the user
is (at least in theory) in control of which font is used for which

Re: [sword-devel] genbooks and commentaries (was: proposed patch: adding n=X marker content to footnotes and xrefs)

2012-02-12 Thread Daniel Owens

Greg is right and Troy is right. :) The need to support specified 
footnote markers in Bibles is less than for genbooks and commentaries. 
Implicitly I meant to refer to the latter.


Again, this gets back what philosophy of module creation to use. It is 
fine to separate form and structure as long as a module creator (perhaps 
acting on behalf of a publisher) has SOME input into how a module is 
displayed.


Daniel

On 02/11/2012 10:27 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

OK, we seem to be talking past each other. You are using Lockman and
the NASB as your example because of its prevalence all over the web.
I'm specifically not talking about Bibles. As I stated in my previous
email, most of those have footnotes which start over on every page,
even in print. If you get a basic NASB or NIV or other modern
translation with just translator's footnotes, all the versions from
every publisher I've ever used have footnotes, labeled with letters,
that begin anew on every page and ignore verse, chapter and even book
boundaries.

I'm talking about general books and commentaries and to that point...

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
scr...@crosswire.org  wrote:

And I still disagree with you that module author wish to retain their own
style (or should want to retain their own style).  I hear from module
publisher that they simply want their content presented professionally and
represents their intention for the content.  None have ever tried to dictate
to me specific visual attributes they need attached to content.  Think of
all the other attributes a print publisher attaches to content: 2 column,
center-row footnotes, page content start and end summary lines at the top.
  We write software where these things don't make sense.  I would tend to
place footnote labels in this bucket.  I understand why others disagree with
me.  I want to give us both the ability to display things how we think best.

I have about 950 modules (none Bibles) that disagree with your claim.
They're from all manner of publishers, but they all come through
Wycliffe. True, not all of them will be available for public
consumption due to copyright, but those to which Wycliffe is the
publishing holder are still potentially going to be released for
consumption.

When we were evaluating software, and I was getting my first real look
at SWORD development we lined up BibleTime and GnomeSword against one
another to compare their features - since we were only interested in
Linux and this was back in 2005. Key problems they had me tackle when
I first got there were:
1) Styling was not being preserved, even though a CSS file was
included in the ThML header and that same file styled an HTML file
properly - we handled this by using an XSL stylesheet to insert
style=blah tags on every ThML element. Styling was extremely
important to them - they nearly abandoned SWORD to develop their own
library because they couldn't get SWORD to preserve their styling
until they moved to inline inclusion of a style tag. This styling is
not preserving print styles, but rather styles that are able to be
applied to the content in another display application (Logos/Libronix)
- and it is very necessary to proper display of the contents.

Some of it is as innocuous as font sizes and weights, others were
standardizations of titles (turquoise background, centered and italics
on by-lines and the like, borders). Still more of it was very
important for display - selection of different fonts for Greek vs
Hebrew vs Aramaic displays. OSIS provided no way to specify these
things and SWORD refused to support an external stylesheet. So we were
forced to use an HTML-based application that had a solid rendering
engine with good language support and poorly designed ThML modules
with inline style content. This was not a small issue and, at the
time, Gnomesword/Xiphos was the only option that had all of this
support and possibly BibleTime.

2) Footnote markers were not being preserved in BibleTime, no matter
the content type. This was a deal-breaker for them and they insisted
on using Gnomesword/Xiphos unless they create a custom patch that
allows BibleTime to honor the n=X setting for footnotes.

I've documented this before, but you continue to insist that no
publishers anywhere care about the display of their modules so long as
the content looks right. But I'm telling you - this is not an
academic, What if... or an I prefer... This is a real module
creator and SWORD software user who has demanded these features, and
is limiting their use to only Xiphos because it remains the only
application on Linux which supports both of these killer features
that they require. So you waving the Lockman example - which has
already been conceded on the basis of even print Bibles going by the
same motif - is a moot point. At the very least honoring the n=X (and
it might be in the on-hover box that it pops up, I dunno, not
necessarily on the inline marker) by default and allowing a user the
ability to

Re: [sword-devel] proposed patch: adding n=X marker content to footnotes and xrefs

2012-02-11 Thread Daniel Owens


On 02/11/2012 09:27 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
What I have tried to propose before with CSS, and what Karl has 
proposed here with footnote and cross-reference notes is that the 
application ought to provide good defaults (generated cross-reference 
and footnote markers when they are lacking) but to honor the module 
creator's request when it is given. 


I am not aware of what the downside is to this, but as a module-creator 
I want more control over how things display, and as a user I want to be 
able to cite a source as precisely as possible. Providing the option to 
display the footnote label as indicated serves both interests.


What I am not clear about is what the downside to this philosophy is.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Av11n and coverage

2012-01-06 Thread Daniel Owens

Yes, mapping! I don't have strong opinion about how this works out on
the engine side of things, but proper mapping between versifications for
front-ends that support parallel display is essential for doing work
with Old Testament Hebrew and Greek texts and with modern translations.

I have happily used BibleTime frequently in my dissertation because it
supports parallel display and effectively uses the mag window to display
lemma and morphology, which I much prefer to the clutter of Strongs
numbers in the main screen. But putting two Bibles side-by-side (which I
do almost all the time) creates problems. When I put the ESV
side-by-side with OSMHB or the forthcoming Wesminster Hebrew Morphology,
it is a mess. Content invariably gets dropped at the end of the chapter.
Add LXX and it is not workable (chapters are offset).

Daniel

On 01/07/2012 07:54 AM, DM Smith wrote:

I agree with Chris.

It will take a lot of work in the SWORD and JSword engine to implement it.

If anything we should develop a v11n that can be read in from a resource file.
But before that I'd like to see support for mapping from one v11n to another.

In Him,
DM

On Jan 6, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Chris Little wrote:

On 1/6/2012 1:29 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Extending Peter's concept, might we also make the book order something that
can be worked with by front-end developers?

e.g. For the NT in Eastern Canonical order we might have:

Scope=Matt-Acts James-Jude Rom-Heb Rev

i.e. with the General Epistles ordered prior to the Pauline Epistles.

I am very much against this idea. (I have no problem with different book
orders, and would happily add a new v11n system if the need can be proven to me
and the data can be provided to me.)

Scope/Coverage is very strongly dependent on the reference system (v11n) used. And other aspects of
the library, such as verse reference resolution, are very dependent on the reference system as
well. An osisRef such as Matt-Jude has to mean something within the context of a
particular reference system. In the KJV v11n, this means all of the text of the NT except
Revelation. If we were to support use of Scope/Coverage to re-order books, we would be creating new
de facto v11ns. Under the above Scope, the osisRef Matt-Jude has a very different
meaning from what would be expected, assuming the KJV v11n were still employed.

Fundamentally, I think we should avoid adding new, complex methods of solving
problems for which we already have solutions. In particular, the book-ordering
issue can already be addressed by addition of new v11ns. The number of cases
where two v11ns differ only in the ordering of their books is probably quite
minimal and better served by adding a new v11n.

This would be a further step towards canon neutrality as expounded by Neil
Rees (Studge) at BibleTech 2010.

I'm also not clear on how this would achieve canon neutrality.

--Chris

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Re: [sword-devel] Psalm titles

2012-01-04 Thread Daniel Owens

Yes, right. There is a non-canonical section title for each psalm and 
then a canonical psalm title for some.


BibleTime 2.9 does not display the canonical titles. Xiphos 3.1.4 does 
not display either—it just leaves a big space. BibleDesktop 1.6 displays 
both but does not differentiate between the canonical and the 
non-canonical titles.


Daniel

On 01/04/2012 08:12 PM, David Haslam wrote:

Daniel,

I've seen problems with displaying/hiding canonical titles too.
Have discussed some aspects with Peter and with DM.

Which front-end app did you use to test this issue?

Have you tried more than one front-end?

Have you tried one based on JSword as well as one or more based on SWORD?

Have you examined Psalms with more than a single title element?
e.g. Some translations have two (or more) successive titles for the same
section or chapter,
rather than a single title containing a line break.

David

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Re: [sword-devel] Psalm titles

2012-01-04 Thread Daniel Owens

Also, BPBible 0.5 (Windows) displays both AND distinguishes between them 
using italics for the canonical title. AndBible shows both but does not 
distinguish between them, placing the canonical title above the 
non-canonical title.


Daniel

On 01/05/2012 05:04 AM, Daniel Owens wrote:
Yes, right. There is a non-canonical section title for each psalm and 
then a canonical psalm title for some.


BibleTime 2.9 does not display the canonical titles. Xiphos 3.1.4 does 
not display either—it just leaves a big space. BibleDesktop 1.6 
displays both but does not differentiate between the canonical and the 
non-canonical titles.


Daniel

On 01/04/2012 08:12 PM, David Haslam wrote:

Daniel,

I've seen problems with displaying/hiding canonical titles too.
Have discussed some aspects with Peter and with DM.

Which front-end app did you use to test this issue?

Have you tried more than one front-end?

Have you tried one based on JSword as well as one or more based on 
SWORD?


Have you examined Psalms with more than a single title element?
e.g. Some translations have two (or more) successive titles for the same
section or chapter,
rather than a single title containing a line break.

David

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[sword-devel] Psalm titles

2012-01-03 Thread Daniel Owens

I looked through the mail archives but did not find an answer. The wiki 
recommends marking up Psalm titles as follows:


title canonical=true type=psalm subType=x-preverseA Psalm of 
David, when he fled from Absalom his son./title

verse osisID=Ps.3.1 sID=Ps.3.1 n=1/
 
verse eID=Ps.3.1/

This does not display for the KJV module, nor does it for my module. The 
ESV manages to display both the editor's title and the canonical title, 
though both drop off when headings are hidden. Any thoughts about a way 
to successfully display psalm titles?


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Open Hebrew Lexicon. (David Troidl), (Daniel Owens)

2011-09-05 Thread Daniel Owens

That is not a bad idea, and we tried it for awhile at textonline.org. 
But you also lose one important feature: semantic markup. Wikis use a 
display markup, so you can't preserve certain data as distinct, like 
lemma, Strong's number, and part of speech. Scripture references may be 
the exception because you could create them as a link, but that makes 
the markup more challenging for non-techies. And wikis are not brainless 
for non-techies.


Daniel

On 09/05/2011 04:37 AM, Benjamin Misja wrote:

Hi,

This might be a silly idea from a non-techie, but why not just use a Wiki?
Markup is simple, far more people will be familiar with it, it's platform-
independent and doesn't require any additional software to be installed. In
addition, your work would take place in a more public setting, thus motivating
more people to use it and join in, even with small fixes, and giving it more
notoriety.

I'm following this thread with interest.

God bless,
Ben

Am Sonntag, 4. September 2011, 21:48:44 schrieb Daniel Owens:

Snip...

On 09/04/2011 01:12 PM, David Troidl wrote:

Hi Aaron,

On 9/4/2011 10:50 AM, Aaron Christianson wrote:

Daniel,
This does sound very much like what I am interested in doing, but
unfortunately, you seem to be using WeSay, which appears to have some
deficiencies in it's Linux versions that will make it unusable for
editing a work of this kind (no support for non-latin scripts, and
issues copying and pasting non-ascii characters).  I'm afraid that I
use Linux exclusively, and my ability to contribute to this project
would be severely limited.

Yes, for a Linux-only or a Mac person, this is a significant problem. I
am a mainly-Linux person, and I am waiting eagerly for WeSay to be fully
functional in Linux (without holding my breath). The reason I chose
WeSay was to encourage non-techies with an easy-to-use application that
supports structured collaboration using a version control system. It
works great with unicode in Windows, handles multiple contributors
easily, and is developed by people trained and experienced in creating
lexica. One additional useful feature is that it offers the ability to
add semantic domain information. However, for our purposes WeSay is
basically limited to Windows at this point.


I was going to write to Daniel privately, but maybe this is a topic
that needs to be brought up here.  My concern is the proliferation of
formats, trying to accomplish the same thing.  With Daniel's LIFT
dictionary, the SWORD TEI-based lexicon format, whatever you would use
and my ad hoc schema, all with similar goals, there could be a lot of
duplication of effort.

Yes, I also don't like the idea of duplicating efforts.


I made my schema just to get into the work, and with the intention of
making it easy to transform to another format, when there was
something better.  I know that the TEI could handle all the
requirements, but it's huge and forbidding.  The SWORD format examples
I've seen appear dense and hard to understand.  I'm not certain if it
has all the capabilities my lexicon needs.  I was going to ask Daniel
if his LIFT dictionary could handle it all, and what would be required
to transform between the two.  Also if his setup could import
transformed entries.  Now if WeSay is a problem with Linux, is that
insurmountable?  Could the LIFT dictionary be used in another
context?  Or what other format would be better?

On formats: SWORD's implementation of TEI for a lexicon is probably not
the best format. At least I have not considered it to be a good format
for creating a lexicon. I chose LIFT XML because it is a format that
several SIL programs use (WeSay and FieldWorks). It is designed for
lexica, so I imagine it can handle anything we need. WeSay allows you to
create custom fields, which makes it easy to work with. LIFT is just an
XML standard, so there is nothing to prevent one from creating an
application to write to a LIFT XML file.

On applications: I have been ruminating on the problem of WeSay being
Windows-only and wondering if a browser-based solution written in PHP or
something like that would be a quick solution for Mac and Linux users.
The PHP code and LIFT file could reside on the contributor's machine
with Mercurial negotiating the differences with the server. That would
mean the PHP program would have to be written to work well with WeSay,
which could be a job in itself. I just don't have the time or expertise
to pull it off. But if someone could do that, it would open up
possibilities for contributors.

Our project is moving so slowly that I am open to changing the way we do
it. Data format questions aside, the following features are needed for
an interface for developing a Hebrew lexicon:

 * Support RtoL Unicode
 * Easy to use for non-techies (virtually brainless, if possible)
 * Changes stored using a version control system allowing for
   collaboration
 * Support features that are commonly accepted as good linguistic
   practice

Re: [sword-devel] Open Hebrew Lexicon. (David Troidl), (Daniel Owens)

2011-09-04 Thread Daniel Owens


Snip...

On 09/04/2011 01:12 PM, David Troidl wrote:

Hi Aaron,

On 9/4/2011 10:50 AM, Aaron Christianson wrote:

Daniel,
This does sound very much like what I am interested in doing, but 
unfortunately, you seem to be using WeSay, which appears to have some 
deficiencies in it's Linux versions that will make it unusable for 
editing a work of this kind (no support for non-latin scripts, and 
issues copying and pasting non-ascii characters).  I'm afraid that I 
use Linux exclusively, and my ability to contribute to this project 
would be severely limited.
Yes, for a Linux-only or a Mac person, this is a significant problem. I 
am a mainly-Linux person, and I am waiting eagerly for WeSay to be fully 
functional in Linux (without holding my breath). The reason I chose 
WeSay was to encourage non-techies with an easy-to-use application that 
supports structured collaboration using a version control system. It 
works great with unicode in Windows, handles multiple contributors 
easily, and is developed by people trained and experienced in creating 
lexica. One additional useful feature is that it offers the ability to 
add semantic domain information. However, for our purposes WeSay is 
basically limited to Windows at this point.
I was going to write to Daniel privately, but maybe this is a topic 
that needs to be brought up here.  My concern is the proliferation of 
formats, trying to accomplish the same thing.  With Daniel's LIFT 
dictionary, the SWORD TEI-based lexicon format, whatever you would use 
and my ad hoc schema, all with similar goals, there could be a lot of 
duplication of effort.



Yes, I also don't like the idea of duplicating efforts.
I made my schema just to get into the work, and with the intention of 
making it easy to transform to another format, when there was 
something better.  I know that the TEI could handle all the 
requirements, but it's huge and forbidding.  The SWORD format examples 
I've seen appear dense and hard to understand.  I'm not certain if it 
has all the capabilities my lexicon needs.  I was going to ask Daniel 
if his LIFT dictionary could handle it all, and what would be required 
to transform between the two.  Also if his setup could import 
transformed entries.  Now if WeSay is a problem with Linux, is that 
insurmountable?  Could the LIFT dictionary be used in another 
context?  Or what other format would be better?
On formats: SWORD's implementation of TEI for a lexicon is probably not 
the best format. At least I have not considered it to be a good format 
for creating a lexicon. I chose LIFT XML because it is a format that 
several SIL programs use (WeSay and FieldWorks). It is designed for 
lexica, so I imagine it can handle anything we need. WeSay allows you to 
create custom fields, which makes it easy to work with. LIFT is just an 
XML standard, so there is nothing to prevent one from creating an 
application to write to a LIFT XML file.


On applications: I have been ruminating on the problem of WeSay being 
Windows-only and wondering if a browser-based solution written in PHP or 
something like that would be a quick solution for Mac and Linux users. 
The PHP code and LIFT file could reside on the contributor's machine 
with Mercurial negotiating the differences with the server. That would 
mean the PHP program would have to be written to work well with WeSay, 
which could be a job in itself. I just don't have the time or expertise 
to pull it off. But if someone could do that, it would open up 
possibilities for contributors.


Our project is moving so slowly that I am open to changing the way we do 
it. Data format questions aside, the following features are needed for 
an interface for developing a Hebrew lexicon:


   * Support RtoL Unicode
   * Easy to use for non-techies (virtually brainless, if possible)
   * Changes stored using a version control system allowing for
 collaboration
   * Support features that are commonly accepted as good linguistic
 practice, such as semantic domains
   * Customizable for our needs

So far WeSay works the best for that, but it is limited to Windows. I am 
open to new ideas.


Daniel


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Re: [sword-devel] Open Hebrew Lexicon.

2011-09-03 Thread Daniel Owens

Another project that sounds like what you are interested in doing is at 
http://www.textonline.org/hebrewaramaiclexicon. The project is fairly 
dormant right now, but in a year or so I hope to pick it up again and 
run with it. We are working from the lemma isolated by the Groves Center 
for the Westminster Hebrew Morphology, so when that SWORD module comes 
out it will mesh well with it. But we did start with Strongs as a 
beginning point for definitions.


Daniel

On 09/03/2011 06:33 PM, David Troidl wrote:

Hi Aaron,

This sounds a lot like what I'm trying to do with my Hebrew Lexicon:
https://github.com/openscriptures/HebrewLexicon

Here's an example of the way I'm breaking down the information:

H1254a. בָּרָא‎ bârâʼ, baw-raw'; [heb; v] a primitive root; ברא  
(absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed 
(as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, 
dispatch, do, make (fat).


BDB:  † I בָּרָא‎ shape, create
Qal Pf.—shape, fashion, create
Niph.—/Pass/. 1. be created 2. with reference to birth 3. of something 
new, astonishing

Pi. 1. cut down 2. cut out

TWOT: 278, Page 135, Status: base.

At the top is the basic Strong data.  After the BDB is the information 
from BDB, which is all I really have available.  There is room for 
other elements, and you could add data to what is already there.  The 
schema is contained in the download package, and should be easily 
transformed into whatever format is necessary for a SWORD module.


I hope this will give you a better starting point than just the 
Strong's dictionary.


Peace,

David

On 9/3/2011 4:26 PM, Aaron Christianson wrote:
Hi all.  I'm a grad student in Bible at the Hebrew University of 
Jerusalem, and I'm soon to finish my second degree in the discipline 
exclusivity using Bible software based on the Sword Project (with 
very occasional recourse to some of my friends' proprietary software 
for advanced searches involving grammatical features).  Thanks for that!


Anyway, I've been feeling like it's time to give something back.  My 
main field of interest Hebrew Language, and that is undoubtedly where 
I would have the most to offer the project.  I'm not a programmer 
(unless you count bash!), but I am 'technically inclined,' and I have 
a little experience with XML and a couple of markup standards, though 
not specifically OSIS.  I have thought about helping with the tagging 
on the OSMHB module, and I would be very open to that.


However, my real interest is in producing a better Hebrew lexicon for 
use with sword modules.  I'm not thinking in terms of porting BDB or 
something, but rather creating a new, open source work that could 
grow and develop over time.


My thought was forking Strong's Real Hebrew (from the Xiphos repo), 
and, first and foremost, adding definitions based on the different 
stems(Strong's dictionary is almost unusable for any Hebrew verb that 
appears in multiple stems), and also adding slightly more detailed 
definitions.  Initially, these would probably be heavily based on 
BDB, but later, if the project can get more volunteers, adding 
up-to-date information based on HALOT, TDOT, and various other 
sources, with references (and I'm talking about summarizing 
information, not copying text).  This isn't a project I ever imagine 
being finished, per se, but something that could grow and change 
with scholarship, and perhaps even eventually come to be considered 
as a worthwhile lexicon in it's own right.


I realize this is all rather grandiose, considering that I've done, 
well, nothing.  I'm perfectly content to start out by simply adding 
stem-based definitions to the Hebrew verbs in Strong's.  This would 
go a long way in improving usability.


So, what I need to know is the protocol for forking Strong's Real 
Hebrew, and the basics of developing Sword modules (including, among 
other things, a good place to learn OSIS).


I may also attempt to maintain a plain-text or HTML version 
separately, but the sword module is the first priority.


Thanks, and God bless,
Aaron

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Re: [sword-devel] Logos Personal Book Builder

2011-08-14 Thread Daniel Owens


I haven't looked at it myself either, but I like the concept.

This past week I was trying to revive the OpenOffice filter that was 
broken with version 3 of OpenOffice. I have isolated the problem code in 
the XSLT filter and commented it out so that the filter works, but it 
doesn't export the document into nicely nested divs. One of the hazards 
of just hacking around in code without any real programming knowledge. 
And I can't find any models of hierarchical xml being exported from 
OpenOffice either (previously I used the TEI filter, but that project 
seems to be dead), so right now, unless someone else can move it 
forward, I am toying with the idea of creating a Perl script to go from 
LaTeX to OSIS XML. OpenOffice can export to LaTeX. The advantage of that 
is I could do it, but it would mean a second step. Any help is welcome, 
especially if someone can rescue me from my XSLT doldrums.


Another issue to consider is that currently the OpenOffice export 
feature only envisions Genbooks. That could change, but we have to get 
them working first.


Daniel

On 08/14/2011 08:28 PM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:
I don't usually comment on competing products, but I thought the new 
(long-expected) Logos Personal Book Builder was worth commenting on.  
You can find a post about it at 
http://blog.logos.com/2011/08/personal-book-builder-the-inside-scoop/.  The 
main difference from most software is the fact that books are built by 
importing a docx file rather than entering any text into an editor, 
which hopefully means minimal work to make it happen.  The created 
books can then just be shared as you wish, even through the main Logos 
servers.


I personally do not intend to do anything about this, but I thought it 
worth mentioning to see what others thought of the idea.  Certainly 
difficulties converting the text into a usable form seem to crop up 
quite a bit for SWORD, and we have no knowledge of how many people 
just give up without asking (I know there is a project to work with 
OpenOffice to create Genbooks, but I have never used it and so do not 
know how capable and how automatic it is).


Thoughts?

Jon


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Re: [sword-devel] OpenOffice GenBook plugin - can't export

2011-08-06 Thread Daniel Owens

For those interested in using the GenBook plugin, I just uploaded a new 
version that works with LibreOffice 3.3.2. You can find it at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/.


Daniel

On 01/02/2011 02:32 AM, alvanx wrote:

Hi,

I found this thread after I discovered the OpenOffice plugin on the
crosswire.org wiki. I had the same problems with the file in OOo 3. I even
contacted Daniel, but the newer version he sent me (that has a different
file size than the file here, so it seems to be a different version) didn't
work on a current OpenOffice 3.2.1. The one provided here didn't work
either.

Is anyone capable of adapting the file to the current version, and possibly
even putting it on the wiki?

Thanks a lot!

Ben


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Re: [sword-devel] OpenOffice GenBook plugin - can't export

2011-08-06 Thread Daniel Owens

To answer myself, the filter worked earlier today but is now giving the 
same write error. Sorry about this. I will have to look into it more 
carefully.


Daniel
For those interested in using the GenBook plugin, I just uploaded a 
new version that works with LibreOffice 3.3.2. You can find it at 
https://sites.google.com/site/danielowensstuff/.


Daniel

On 01/02/2011 02:32 AM, alvanx wrote:

Hi,

I found this thread after I discovered the OpenOffice plugin on the
crosswire.org wiki. I had the same problems with the file in OOo 3. I 
even

contacted Daniel, but the newer version he sent me (that has a different
file size than the file here, so it seems to be a different version) 
didn't

work on a current OpenOffice 3.2.1. The one provided here didn't work
either.

Is anyone capable of adapting the file to the current version, and 
possibly

even putting it on the wiki?

Thanks a lot!

Ben


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Re: [sword-devel] Font size specification inside divinename/divinename

2011-06-25 Thread Daniel Owens



On 06/25/2011 10:18 AM, ref...@gmx.net wrote:
It is not so much to imitate print texts, but to allow different 
languages to use appropriate solutions. Class is good, descriptive 
presentation is bad.


Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: Jonathan Morgan jonmmor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 14:37
Subject: [sword-devel] Font size specification inside 
divinename/divinename

To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum sword-devel@crosswire.org

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Sebastien Koechlin
seb.sw...@koocotte.orgwrote:

 On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 02:52:14PM -0400, DM Smith wrote:
  On 06/24/2011 01:03 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
  Yeah, for sure.  We also have this problem on swordweb. Any ideas?  I
  thought at one time we were supplying a + size on the first letter or
  something.  Any bright ideas welcome.
 
  Is there any reason not to use small caps? I.e.
  divineNameLord/divineName becomes span style=font-variant:
  /small/-/caps/Lord/span?

 Yes, this is probably an english on american usage, but I've never seen
 this
 in french Bible nor in the two german translation I have (I don't 
know for
 other languages).  In fact, the king James version I have is also 
printed

 without small-caps. This is probably another locale related nightmare.

 - It's disturbing for some users (I have many bug reports on FreJND).

 - At least one translator (Darby) choose to write God, or Christ 
without an

 initial capital in some cases; which is mostly lost (hard to see) when
 displayed with small caps (1Sam.5.8 for example).

 - Many languages does not have capital letters.

 For the moment, the only way to have a correct rendering (according to
 some local usage) is to remove semantic informations.

 I would like to have a way to disable thoses small-caps.


Is there anything in the print Bible to distinguish divine name from
non-divine name?  I assume the use case for this feature was to note a
difference between divine name and non-divine name in the source text.  In
English Bibles that distinction is present: typically the difference 
between

small caps and ordinary words.  If it is not present in a different form
then I am not sure that you would want to mark it up as divine name 
(whereas

if it is present but the expected formatting is different then maybe we
would have to reconsider something).

Jon


I disagree with Peter's comment (top of the post). Different 
translations use different markup in keeping with their translation 
philosophy. Translation philosophy varies between translations that use 
the same language. Therefore, allowing for module-specific display is a 
valid goal if we wish to allow modules to maintain certain display 
features that reflect their translation philosophy. Treatment of the 
divine name is one example of that.


Daniel



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Re: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.x and various frontends

2011-05-24 Thread Daniel Owens


On 05/24/2011 06:21 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:

Hi Luke,

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Luke Schroeder l...@motimail.com 
mailto:l...@motimail.com wrote:


I'm slowly but surely working on getting our translation's
electronic bible published.
I can only install the file into Xiphos when I have it unzipped.
 It installs into BPBible Porteable fine from the Zip file.
I cannot install it at all into Alkitab or Bibledesktop.
XULrunner recognizes the file I installed from Xiphos.  Alkitab
and Bibledesktop do not.
After several hours of trying to figure this out, I decided I
would go here for help.  Are several of the frontends for SWORD
not capable of using Sword 1.6.x?  I came to this hypothesis
because my translation requires NRSV versification and I used the
most current sword to make it.


As far as I know, any frontends based on JSword (e.g. Alkitab, 
BibleDesktop, FireBible, AndBible) will not be able to support other 
versifications.


As for the other applications, using Sword 1.6.x does not necessarily 
imply that other versifications are well supported.  I know for both 
BPBible and Xiphos that only the KJV versification is supported.  
While books with other versifications are able to be installed and 
opened, they will not go to the correct references.


Jon
Bibletime (http://www.bibletime.info/) works well with the Leningrad 
versification. You might try testing there.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] MDF/SFM Dictionary Import into Sword Format

2011-04-17 Thread Daniel Owens

I actually have a very crude Perl script to do something like that, but 
I haven't used it for awhile. If no one else bites on the project, I can 
take a look at what I have. The most significant challenge I would 
anticipate is that entries might be structured in a variety of ways, so 
something customizable would be needed, which would require someone 
knowing a little bit of Perl. But what I do is mostly search and replace 
using regular expressions. It's the extent of my programming knowledge.


One other option I am looking into, since at textonline.org we are using 
WeSay do develop lexicons that ultimately will end up in SWORD, is 
creating a script or xsl file to go from LIFT XML to TEI XML. I haven't 
tried to do that yet, but you could export from FieldWorks to LIFT and 
then run the script. I don't plan to tackle this real soon, but it could 
be another option.


But a more experienced person who is more than just a tinkerer like me 
could probably help you out very quickly. MDF files are very simple.


Daniel

On 04/17/2011 08:11 PM, Luke Schroeder wrote:
Does anyone with a basic knowledge of programming see any merit in the 
following idea?  Make a script that takes basic components of a 
dictionary and formats it alphabetically into the sword imp format.  
The imp format being as follows:


$$$word in another language
Definition or gloss of word immediately below.

The dictionary format being the standard used by Bible translators, 
called MDF (Manual for Dictionary Formatting?) and adapted in the 
SIL's program Fieldworks.  My idea of a script would be to allow the 
user to input the backslash codes into the script for the word, sense 
number, part of speech, definition, example sentence, example sentence 
translated.  In our dictionary these codes would be: \lc, \sn, \ps, 
\ge, \xv, \xe but in others dictionaries they would want the ability 
to adapt the backslash codes a little since often Fieldworks gives 
backslash codes that include the language name.  The script would then 
output a file in imp format.  The file would look like this:

$$$Word
[Part of speech] [Definition] (1st sense of word)

[Example Sentence]
[Example Sentence translation]

[Part of speech] [Definition] (2nd sense of word

[Example Sentence]
[Example Sentence translation]
etc.

It seems to me like this is very basic programming.  It also seems to 
me that if someone really go into the project they could do a lot more 
than what I just described.  Finally I find this beneficial, because 
most of the Bible translation teams for minority languages are working 
on dictionaries at the same time.  For people like the group I work 
with, the dictionary is valued more than the Bible.  It is easy to get 
the Bibles into Sword format.  If this script were made it would be 
easy to get dictionaries into sword format (at least in their most 
basic form).  Having the two distributed together allows interaction 
between both works.  It helps younger people in the language 
understand the deeper words of their language.


Any programmers out their interested?

Sincerely yours,
Luke S.





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Re: [sword-devel] Using Perl script usfm2osos.pl in Windows?

2011-04-11 Thread Daniel Owens

It is capable of handling multiple files. Typically Paratext has one
file for each book of the Bible, so that is why it handles those files
that way.

I remember running into this problem in Windows, but I don't remember
how I solved it. I think I switched my OS. :) I agree this utility
should be more Windows-friendly. I just don't know how to do it.

Daniel

On 04/11/2011 08:21 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:

David,

I haven't used usfm2osis.pl, but are you sure it is capable of
handling multiple files at one time anywhere? Usually the file glob is
expanded by the shell (at least in the Unix world) so the program will
actually receive multiple distinct arguments expanded out to match
each file in the glob. I thought Windows operated the same way.
Perhaps usfm2osis.pl is designed to be executed in a loop? From bash
they are very easy to write:
for file in $(ls *.usfm); do usfm2osis.pl $file; done

Additionally, if you operate in Windows and are actually doing
anything of consequence on the command line with Perl programs, you
should probably switch to using Cygwin or MSYS as they will behave
more reasonably than cmd.exe does. Cygwin will also have its own
version of Perl available for your use and should behave the same as
usfm2osis.pl.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:01 AM, David Haslamdfh...@googlemail.com wrote:

Can anyone help?

CrossWire utilities written as Perl scripts such as usfm2osis.pl seem to be
designed for Unix users only!

This utility does not work when given with a wildcard to specify the USFM
files.

It does work, however, for each individual USFM file when each
case-sensitive filename is specified exactly.

I suspect that all such Perl scripts do not contain any code for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob_%28programming%29 globbing Windows
filename wildcard patterns.

I'm not a Perl programmer. What is needed is for someone who is both a Perl
programmer and familiar with using Perl in the Windows environment to
improve all such scripts such that they are no longer a stumbling block for
users who prefer Windows.

btw. I have ActivePerl installed in my PC.

David Haslam

--
View this message in context:
http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Using-Perl-script-usfm2osos-pl-in-Windows-tp3441764p3441764.html
Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [sword-devel] The problem with dictionaries (by David Ker)

2011-02-16 Thread Daniel Owens




On 02/16/2011 04:16 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

Maybe this is something to take note of for SWORD dictionary modules in
future.

SWORD dictionaries are build on TEI or any of the older formats.

Peter
That is true, but LIFT could be easily transformed to TEI since TEI 
entries can be structured much the same way as LIFT entries. That said, 
the value of WeSay is in generating new lexicons, not creating 
electronic texts of old lexicons, such as Strongs.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] The problem with dictionaries (by David Ker)

2011-02-16 Thread Daniel Owens

At TExTonline.org we have set up a project for developing a modern 
replacement for Strongs using WeSay, and therefore LIFT. I haven't 
developed a script to transform the LIFT file into TEI, but that is on 
the to-do list when I actually get to working on this seriously.


However, I have realized that WeSay does not yet offer a Mac build, thus 
limiting the potential for collaboration. I wonder if a web interface to 
edit LIFT or, perhaps even TEI, files would allow for more contributors. 
A wiki format would be more familiar, but it is designed to tag for 
format not in a way that represents the distinctive elements of 
dictionaries, as do LIFT and TEI. I wonder if the SIL folks will ever 
move in this direction...


Daniel

On 02/16/2011 07:31 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Precisely - I was thinking about the future, in the context of our tag line,
Bringing the Gospel to a new generation.

i.e. If some agencies that we collaborate with [decide to] use LIFT to
develop lexicons, and it becomes attractive for us to support a Bible
translation as a SWORD module for the same language[s], then we should also
take note of LIFT.

So for us now at least, this is back burner stuff - yet mentioned here in
order to stimulate creative thinking 

David


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Re: [sword-devel] The problem with dictionaries (by David Ker)

2011-02-16 Thread Daniel Owens


David,

I hadn't thought about publicizing on Facebook. I have so far avoided 
getting an account, and I probably will continue to do so until my 
dissertation is finished. But it would make sense to do that since so 
many people are on Facebook.


Daniel

On 02/16/2011 10:38 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Daniel,

Thanks for the heads up about  http://textonline.org/ TExTonline.org .

I have shared the link on facebook, so I hope you will get some more
volunteers to take on project ideas.
My post has already been liked and shared by others.

I would suggest that you use facebook to publicize the resource of
TExTonline.org
It's a superb way to generate a following.

See also  http://crosswire.org/wiki/Facebook
http://crosswire.org/wiki/Facebook

David


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Re: [sword-devel] can't do lucene Hebrew searches in KJV

2011-01-20 Thread Daniel Owens




On 01/20/2011 07:36 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:
Of course, it would be preferable if users didn't have to type arcane 
strings like lemma:H05062 in in the first place.  I know I got a 
comment about BPBible 0.5 beta 1 that it would be good to be able to 
search for multiple Greek/Hebrew words used close to each other 
without having to find each number and enter it in.


Jon


YES!

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

2011-01-14 Thread Daniel Owens


On 01/14/2011 12:48 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

 Original-Nachricht 

Datum: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:32:44 -0500
Von: DM Smithdmsm...@crosswire.org
* The construction of a Bibtex entry looks error prone. Having a web
page that can construct an entry from input would be good.

I think I would go one step further - we should have a conf file generator 
somewhere.

Peter


I think this is an excellent idea! I wish I could write it because it 
would make module submission easier.


I wonder, though, if what we need in the conf file is not a record that 
would be used in a bibliographic database such as BibTeX but rather what 
library catalogs have. If we chose a format that was pretty common 
(i.e., that a prominent/visible library uses, such as the U.S. Library 
of Congress) then bibliographic software that sucks that information 
from websites would support it. That would include everything from 
EndNote to Zotero, I would think. I am not sure how open such standards 
are or how easy they are to implement, but the input of conf file 
entries might be more accurately entered through a web form with files 
like Title, Author, Editor, Place of Publication, Publisher, Date of 
Publication, etc. If that web form then had a place to upload a source 
file (OSIS or whatever) then it would be easier to ensure that conf 
files were well-structured and consistent. Just a thought.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

2011-01-11 Thread Daniel Owens




On 01/11/2011 11:27 AM, Trevor Jenkins wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, Peter von Kaehneref...@gmx.net  wrote:


Modules really should have bibtex or something similar in their conf
file. This would improve the use of our library for academic purposes.

I don't understand this.

First, I don't understand why a system's internal file format needs to be
changed to accommodate the whimsey and caprice of a particular group.
There is no BibTeX parser within Sword. If any new format for .conf files
were to be proposed, and I'm not arguing that it should, some XMLisation
would be a better choice.

Second, I don't understand what a library (in some sense from above)
having to do with the internal workings of Sword has anything to do with
academic acceptance. Unless you mean that academics ought to be persuaded
to use a Sword module over the equvialent encapsulation from from e-Sword
or Accordance.


We have talked about this a while ago.

I don't recall the discussion. Refresh my memory, please.


I think we reached some sort of agreement that Bibtex entries should be
added to the conf file, though beyond the principle we did not move. Nor
has anyone committed any code.

Are you suggesting that BibTeX entries be embedded within .conf files? In
addition to the existing format of the files?

Regards, Trevor


As a PhD student, I personally think this would be very helpful. Many 
different bibliographic database programs can import BibTeX data, so it 
makes getting information into programs like Zotero (a Firefox extension 
that is the most popular choice among my colleauges) very easy. If the 
data is embedded in the conf file, then conf files online are a ready 
source of bibliographic data for someone seeking to cite a source in 
SWORD. This came home to me when I was preparing a paper for my 
application to the PhD program I am now in, and I had to find the 
bibliographic information for Aquinas' Summa. It took a bit of effort, 
but BibTeX data would have saved me the time and headache. It is yet 
another enticement to users to start using SWORD.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] BPBible 0.5 beta 1 released

2010-12-31 Thread Daniel Owens

This has been worth waiting for. Right to left and continuous scrolling 
is a huge step forward. I also like the options for displaying Strongs 
numbers. Well done!


Daniel

On 12/31/2010 07:24 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:

Hi all,

BPBible 0.5 beta 1 has been released.  As this is the first preview 
version using the new rendering engine and other major UI changes have 
been made, we would welcome anyone interested downloading the beta and 
giving us any feedback.  Find out more about it at 
http://bpbible.com/news/bpbible-0.5-beta1-released.


Jon


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Re: [sword-devel] How to log out Strongs modules for development

2010-12-13 Thread Daniel Owens


On 12/13/2010 04:06 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

On 13/12/10 16:13, David Haslam wrote:


If you wish to obtain the OSIS source text for a module, then you'd need to
contact the relevant CrossWire volunteer.

The Strong modules are created using TEI not OSIS.

I am not sure (though Chris Little will know) if this :

http://files.morphgnt.org/strongs-dictionary/

and our source is the same, but I would think nevertheless this is a
quality source for TEI encoded Strongs.

Another, interesting (though I think, quite sleepy) project is here:

http://www.textonline.org/wiki/Textonline.org:Current_events

Unfortunate the site appears to be in difficulties. The site uses a
variant of SFM to encode which should be easily translatable into TEI on
completion.

Peter

Sleepy is a great way to describe our project at textonline.org! I get 
to it after semesters close (which is right now for us in America), and 
I need to chase down our provider to fix the site's database! Hopefully 
when my dissertation is done I will make lots of progress.


Currently the effort in regard to Greek is essentially dormant. For 
Hebrew, I am working on checking the glosses that you, David IB, 
obtained from the OLB lexicon to make sure they conform to BDB and 
Strongs, thus moving the source way from the OLB source and toward 
public domain material. I am using WeSay, a program written by SIL to 
enable collaboration in developing lexicons. The files are in LIFT XML 
and housed at LanguageDepot.org. If you or someone you know would like 
to contribute to the ongoing work, register there and let me know so I 
can get you (or another) set up to contribute. WeSay uses Mercurial for 
version control, but all the user does is click Send/Receive button in 
WeSay. It is really user-friendly once it is set up. Once I get the 
textonline.org site back up and running I will make sure the 
instructions there are clear.


But for Strongs, another source is at OpenScriptures.org. I think they 
are working on perfecting a Strong's source in OSIS.


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] av11n mappings

2010-11-09 Thread Daniel Owens

I would like to chime in briefly with a real world case of option 2 
below that I am dealing with right now. I am working on a paper on the 
Psalms where versification varies quite a bit between versions 
(Leningrad, LXX, and KJV, etc.). I use both BibleTime and Logos because 
both offer features I need but neither offers it all. What I would like, 
as a biblical scholar, is to have the WLC and my own translation with 
Leningrad versification line up in parallel to say the ESV and the LXX 
with the correct verse numbers in each text displaying with the correct 
content, but the corresponding content appearing side-by-side. Logos 
does this pretty well. If I type in Psalm 3:2 in the Hebrew text, the 
ESV of Ps 3:1 is next to it. Or if I go to Ps 15 in Hebrew, the LXX 
shows Ps 14. When I use BibleTime I wish I could synchronize Bible 
windows like I synchronize commentaries with the Bible. That is the best 
analogy to what Logos does. Anyway, for what it's worth, that is my real 
world case for use case #2 below. I am excited about this conversation!


Daniel

On 11/09/2010 01:12 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Hey Konstantin,

Quick comment right now to stir discussion among frontend developers:


On 11/09/2010 05:16 PM, Konstantin Maslyuk wrote:

2.  some  verses  point to ranges of verses. should i change bounds in
this case (UpperBound())?

To answer this, I believe we need to outline our use cases.  I can think
of 3:

1) A user is viewing a verse, say Ps 95:5 in the KJV, and then wants to
switch Bibles to one with an alternate v11n, say the LXX.  Typically a
frontend will want to do something like:
bible2.setKey(bible1.getKey());
displayChapter(bible2).

2) A user wants to display 4 Bibles in parallel, all with differing v11n
schemes.

3) A developer simply wants to make a call directly to the engine for
whatever purpose to see how one verse maps to another scheme, or one
range of verses maps to another (which might help in case 2).

Are there any other use cases? (I guess #3 isn't necessarily a use case,
I included it because it seems obviously necessary, but still can't
think of a practical application for this information-- except possibly
to solve use case #2)

1 seems easy for a frontend.  2 seems a nightmare so we have to assist
them as much as possible.  I haven't even started to imagine how
frontend developers feel the display logic should work.  Would be
interested to sample some of the other Bible software out there which
does this and see what they display.  But the preference is really for
the frontend develpers to decide and we need to give them the
appropriate data for what they want to build.  I can think of easy
solutions that work 95% of the time and wouldn't require likely any code
changes for the frontend developers from their current parallel display
code, but that might not be sufficient enough for some and we want to
give them an interface to assist them with their display logic.  So I
guess we need to hear from them.


3. and if target content doesnt exist, what i should do, just set
error?

Maybe again depends on the use cases we finalize on, but this one sounds
like we could probably go with your suggestion and set
KEYERR_OUTOFBOUNDS.  Though we might help the API user by positioning
the key to the closest location along with raising the error?  If that
even makes sense?

Troy

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Re: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names

2010-09-30 Thread Daniel Owens


 On 09/29/2010 05:42 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

I do have a question to the original poster (and regarding Vietnamese).

Do you also use '-' in ranges or do you use another character?  This
might introduce localized logic differences to the parser, not simply
localization strings.

Troy

Vietnamese speakers do use a hyphen for ranges, I believe.

Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names

2010-09-29 Thread Daniel Owens



On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote:

New Zealand.

Hello all,

I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire 
Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know 
if this is not the right forum to ask questions.


I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that 
localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the 
hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we 
worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the 
alphabet and appears in several book names!


Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested 
work-around.


Thanks,
Robert.

This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the 
hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still 
comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because 
Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent transliterations of 
foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be 
comprehensible without the hyphen?


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] [jsword-devel] New data, new CrossWire project, HELP WANTED

2010-04-28 Thread Daniel Owens


David,

Sorry, TEI is an XML schema that SWORD uses for lexicons. I expect it 
will be fairly straightforward to convert from OSIS to TEI, but I will 
need some time first. I have two classes to teach and a paper to 
complete before then. :)


I don't think we need extra permission. I can ask David to clarify the 
copyright status of his corrections, but typically OpenScriptures data 
is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license 
(check out the footer of (http://openscriptures.org/). But I think 
(based on my amateur understanding) that because Strongs is public 
domain, it can't be copyrighted unless you create new content 
(corrections wouldn't count). But either way, the data is available for 
use, and we can double-check with David in time.


I am working with David on the morphhb, which is currently a SWORD 
module. The module identifyer is OSMHB or Open Scriptures Morphological 
Hebrew Bible. Currently the text is all public domain material, but once 
we start adding morphology the morphology will be Creative Commons 
Attribution-Share Alike. Again, either way it will be licensed in a way 
fitting for STEP.


I guess that is a long way of saying, no, no extra permission is needed 
for either of these.


Daniel

On 4/28/2010 4:33 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:

Great, Daniel!
(To be honest I don't know your acronyms, but I guess you know what 
you're doing).


Do we need extra permission for this?
The work done by the guys at openscriptures  
http://github.com/openscriptures is based on my work, and I certainly 
give permission,

but they didn't reply to my email asking if they were offering it to PD.
They also have another very interesting project called morphhb
which appears to be the Leningrad OT tagged with Strongs, in Unicode 
with many corrections.

- ie all the PD stuff, but with extra corrections and all in tidy XML.

I think David Troidl davidtro...@aol.com is the contact but, as I 
said, he declined to reply to me.
Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly.   Sounds like a job for 
David Haslam's expertise.


David IB


On 23 April 2010 20:33, Daniel Owens dhow...@pmbx.net wrote:

I may be able to work at it in a few weeks. It will need to be 
transformed into TEI for SWORD. I am not so strong on XSLT, so if 
anyone with better skills there would take this on it would go more 
quickly.


Daniel


On 4/23/2010 2:03 PM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:

Sword have a good Hebrew lexicon based on Strongs (corrected
by me), but I don't know where such things are stored.
The guys at openscriptures 
http://github.com/openscriptures have added several more
corrections to my corrections, and produced a tidy XML package,

downloadable at
http://github.com/openscriptures/strongs/downloads
Could this be converted into a replacement Sword module by
someone?

David IB

At 19:45 23/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote:

Hi Daniel

I think to start with we really need a Strong-tagged
hebrew sword module and if possible with the morphology
in it. That would help with the classic interlinears and
in particular in their accuracy. Perhaps that already
exists, but I haven't been able to find it.

And then as you say, a good Hebrew lexicon would be a
great addition. Hopefully David IB will be able to
comment on the best way forward here. We'll need both at
some point, so either would be good!
Chris


On 22 April 2010 00:07, Chris Burrell
ch...@burrell.me.uk mailto:ch...@burrell.me.uk 
mailto:ch...@burrell.me.uk wrote:

   Hi Daniel

   I'm copying David IB from Tyndale House who is part of
Tyndale
   House and leading the data side of the project.

   A couple of emails have circulated on this previously
on our
   blogs, which I've tried to capture (in part) on
http://crosswire.org/bugs/browse/TYNSTEP-44
http://crosswire.org/bugs/browse/TYNSTEP-45

   I'm sure David IB will have more to input on this...
I've copied
   his original email below
   Chris

   ==
   THis is the best lookup lexicon to use for Hebrew
interlinear -
   it is tagged to Strongs, includes the pointed Hebrew
and has an
   abbreviated BDB entry. And the version downloadable from
http://github.com/openscriptures has even more
corrections than
   mine. For all I know, it might finally be letter
perfect! THis
   version is also packaged in nice XML which can easily be
   converted to any other DB format.

   The equivalent

Re: [sword-devel] [jsword-devel] New data, new CrossWire project, HELP WANTED

2010-04-28 Thread Daniel Owens

I believe it is, though I am not sure how much JSword has stayed 
up-to-date on the various formats supported by Sword. Module creation is 
an animal in itself. Take a look at the wiki at 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Main_Page and look under Module 
Development--there is a lot of useful material there. SWORD module 
creation tools can prepare modules based on OSIS, ThML, TEI, and 
varieties of plain text. OSIS is preferred for Bibles and commentaries, 
though ThML is supported. Genbooks used to be ThML (probably the 
best-supported) though OSIS is now preferred. TEI is preferred for 
lexicons/dictionaries.


I suggest that as you work on the front-end for STEP that you create 
content that includes what you want STEP to include, even if that 
content isn't ready for release, to test what JSword does with it. Then 
if you need to help develop JSword you can do so in order to make STEP 
do what you want it to do. For example, currently front-ends sort 
lexicon entries in such a way that English sorts well (as do numerals, 
so Strongs works well), but polytonic Greek and Hebrew with vowels do 
not sort well (everything is jumbled up, at least from a natural 
language perspective). It's just a thought.


Daniel

On 4/28/2010 12:35 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
Just a question on this? We're talking about TEI being a format that 
Sword supports. Is that also supported by JSword? I thought as far as 
I could see it only supported OSIS, but then I'm not really familiar 
with the inner working of JSword, or Sword for that matter...


Chris

On 28 April 2010 12:48, Daniel Owens dhow...@pmbx.net 
mailto:dhow...@pmbx.net wrote:


David,

Sorry, TEI is an XML schema that SWORD uses for lexicons. I expect
it will be fairly straightforward to convert from OSIS to TEI, but
I will need some time first. I have two classes to teach and a
paper to complete before then. :)

I don't think we need extra permission. I can ask David to clarify
the copyright status of his corrections, but typically
OpenScriptures data is released under a Creative Commons
Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license (check out the footer of
(http://openscriptures.org/). But I think (based on my amateur
understanding) that because Strongs is public domain, it can't be
copyrighted unless you create new content (corrections wouldn't
count). But either way, the data is available for use, and we can
double-check with David in time.

I am working with David on the morphhb, which is currently a SWORD
module. The module identifyer is OSMHB or Open Scriptures
Morphological Hebrew Bible. Currently the text is all public
domain material, but once we start adding morphology the
morphology will be Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike.
Again, either way it will be licensed in a way fitting for STEP.

I guess that is a long way of saying, no, no extra permission is
needed for either of these.

Daniel


On 4/28/2010 4:33 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:

Great, Daniel!
(To be honest I don't know your acronyms, but I guess you know
what you're doing).

Do we need extra permission for this?
The work done by the guys at openscriptures 
http://github.com/openscriptures is based on my work, and I
certainly give permission,
but they didn't reply to my email asking if they were offering
it to PD.
They also have another very interesting project called morphhb
which appears to be the Leningrad OT tagged with Strongs, in
Unicode with many corrections.
- ie all the PD stuff, but with extra corrections and all in
tidy XML.

I think David Troidl davidtro...@aol.com
mailto:davidtro...@aol.com is the contact but, as I said,
he declined to reply to me.
Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly.   Sounds like a
job for David Haslam's expertise.

David IB


On 23 April 2010 20:33, Daniel Owens dhow...@pmbx.net
mailto:dhow...@pmbx.net wrote:

I may be able to work at it in a few weeks. It will need to be
transformed into TEI for SWORD. I am not so strong on XSLT, so
if anyone with better skills there would take this on it would
go more quickly.

Daniel

   On 4/23/2010 2:03 PM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:

   Sword have a good Hebrew lexicon based on Strongs
(corrected
   by me), but I don't know where such things are stored.
   The guys at openscriptures 
http://github.com/openscriptures have added several more
   corrections to my corrections, and produced a tidy
XML package,

   downloadable at
http://github.com/openscriptures/strongs/downloads
   Could this be converted into a replacement Sword
module

Re: [sword-devel] User Interface design for Tyndale STEP

2010-04-22 Thread Daniel Owens

One feature of BibleDesktop that I hope you retain is the method of 
displaying cross-references. It is natural to have them in a pane on the 
left-hand side of the screen because that mimics the approach of most 
print Bibles. It also offers additional content across languages. When I 
was working at Crossway I checked the cross-references in the ESV from 
Genesis to Jeremiah--they are very good. So I like to use them for my 
own study, and when I work in Vietnamese I like to have those 
cross-references. BibleDesktop, combining its display of 
cross-references with the parallel text display, thus extends the 
content of one Bible to another.


Another thought, related to the browser-like features you are 
suggesting, is that it would be good to have a tabbed interface so you 
can have multiple workspaces at once. Just a thought.


Daniel

On 4/22/2010 4:38 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
Just thought I'd share a few sites that have cropped up recently from 
various people in the listings and outside. If we could pull ideas off 
those interfaces, I think we could end up with something really good.


1- http://my.offlinebible.com/index.php
2- http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/
3- http://www.bibleglo.com/

We will probably need to rewrite the current interface completely, so 
we might as well be creative. The timeline will probably stay the same 
for now, but maybe in future versions get replaced or have several 
versions of it, etc. Everything else will probably go.


A few thoughts in terms of our thinking:
- adopting the MVP pattern and EventBus, we want to be able to build 
and replace parts of the interface without affecting the rest of the 
application
- we need something that feels like a application running locally - in 
some cases it will - (in terms of speed, the idea that we're not going 
from page to page, etc.)
- people know how to use websites, so we want to tap in to that 
(browser back and forward button, search box, event model, etc.)

- something easy to use
- something clean, but easy to find all the other data.
- something consistent so that as we put new data into it the user is 
not forced to look for all the new data, but that it's presented to 
him and yet not overwhelming him


Any thoughts, any takers?

Chris



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[sword-devel] Announcing the Open Scriptures Morphological Hebrew Bible module

2010-04-11 Thread Daniel Owens

Today the Open Scriptures Morphological Hebrew Bible (morphology 
forthcoming), or OSMHB, made it onto the module repository (thanks 
Chris!). This module is basically the WLC with Strong's numbers (thanks 
to David Troidl and others). This is a major step forward for Hebrew 
readers in the SWORD orb, and hopefully in the years to come we will be 
able to add not just lemma but also morphology.


However, I hope front-end developers will make use of it as a real-world 
example of a module following an alternative versification (Leningrad). 
I have used it most in BibleTime, and when I cycle through books it does 
so in the Hebrew order rather than the KJV order, so that's very cool. 
It would be great to see the corresponding verses match up correctly in 
a parallel view and verses that don't fit with the KJV not lopped off, 
as in some cases currently (for example, MT Ps 3:9 is lopped off in 
BibleDesktop and in BibleTime when in parallel with the ESV).


Daniel

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Re: [sword-devel] Improvements to osis2mod to handle XML comments and header correctly

2010-04-05 Thread Daniel Owens

Yes, I agree, and if there were a feedback mechanism for the module 
creator to let them know how to start fixing an OSIS file or conf file, 
it would save Chris (or whoever else approves modules) time on the basic 
stuff.


Daniel

On 4/5/2010 11:09 AM, DM Smith wrote:
This is a great idea. Rather than emailing source to modules at 
crosswire dot org, one could upload it via a web service. We could 
have stages of validation (xmllint) and construction (osis2mod). Such 
a service could evaluate the quality of the submission.


In Him,
DM

On 04/05/2010 12:01 PM, Weston Ruter wrote:
Why not turn osis2mod into a web service? Then it wouldn't matter how 
it is implemented since it would be abstracted away by the web 
service interface. It could use the best XML libraries available 
today and written in the programming language of choice, both of 
which would make maintenance and the addition of new features much 
easier.


Weston

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Manfred Bergmann 
manfred.bergm...@me.com mailto:manfred.bergm...@me.com wrote:


Hi DM.

Am 05.04.2010 um 13:21 schrieb DM Smith:

 Regarding using a real parser, it is a good idea. But we
don't want SWORD to be dependant on an external parser.

What's the reason for that?
I could understand if it would mean for the user to install
certain libraries manually but when the sources can be integrated
into the project and has the appropriate licence then why not?


Manfred


 On 02/04/2010 05:31 AM, John Zaitseff wrote:
 Dear SWORD developers,

 Firstly, thanks for developing the SWORD library!  I have been
using
 this library, in conjunction with the BibleTime front-end, for
many
 years.

 I have recently started to develop some OSIS documents of my own.
 In doing so, I found that the XML parser in osis2mod is somewhat
 fragile---something that you are, no doubt, aware of.

 In particular, osis2mod does not handle XML comments at all, nor
 does it correctly parse the header element.  Being able to
handle
 XML comments is, I think, quite important---I like to document the
 SVN revision ID, for example, in an XML comment.

 Furthermore, the osis2mod XML parser looks for the first div in
 the document, no matter where that occurs.  In particular, if the
 OSIS document includes a revisionDesc tag in the header, it will
 have p tags as well---which will be translated by transformBSP()
 into div tags---and get used as the starting point for the
 document!

 For this reason, I have generated a quick patch that will solve
 these particular problems.  Could you please apply it to the SVN
 head for utilities/osis2mod.cpp.  Comments are handled similar to
 spaces: they are skipped.  And handleToken() now looks for the
first
 div after the /revision end tag.

 In general, I think that (perhaps eventually) the proper way to
 parse XML is to use a library like libxml---which is designed
 specifically for this purpose.

 Yours truly,

 John Zaitseff




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