Re: [sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Greg Hellings]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 12:27 PM Michael H  wrote:

> The text (https://git.door43.org/Door43-Catalog/en_tn) is not in
> currently in a format supported by anything except unfoldingWord, (
> https://door43.org/u/Door43-Catalog/en_tn/ff70a8adb2/) but it is in a
> regular format. So the manual transform  into a supported form is currently
> planned to go directly into OSIS. Considering the depth of the information,
> this seems the most likely to succeed and keep the information present and
> usable.
>

OSIS is an admirable goal for this purpose.


> "Build my own tools" is stronger language than I would use for my effort.
> I do plan to write stuff (LibreOffice Calc functions) that output OSIS
> directly from the spreadsheet files in the link, but not the module. I can
> synthesize what needs to happen for all of this except the header text that
> will make the subsequent validation and conversion to module work. An
> example OSIS source text for a valid sword commentary would be most
> helpful.
>

As far as the OSIS is concerned, there is no real difference between a
Bible text and a Commentary. The only difference between them lies in the
SWORD conf file and which list it shows up in. Also, most clients enable
different abilities (e.g. connecting scrolling a Bible to auto-scrolling
the associated commentary, etc) but all of that is outside of the realm of
OSIS. The OSIS file is exactly the same between the Bible and the
Commentary (except, presumably, the commentary will not declare itself as
canonical text in most cases).


> The The English TN is based on ASV(NRSV) versification. But there other
> languages--Russian, French, Italian where I'm expecting the reference
> edition to be other versifications, because the versification was
> established to follow the vulgate or something like it long before modern
> era.  maybe I'm seeing a mountain where none exists, or a problem that
> remains unsolvable in Sword (linking to scripture across versifications).
> It seems like there should be some hook in the work itself or along with
> each link that describes the versification of the intended scripture
> target. I'm not seeing how to encode that.
>

Here there be dragons, and many suggested solutions. Somewhere someone has
done work on a solution for linking across versifications. I don't know
what state that is in, so I'll let others answer that.

--Greg
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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Dudeck, John]

There is a command line argument for versification for the osis2mod module 
compiler.

 http://wiki.crosswire.org/Osis2mod

I don't think it looks at the OSIS file metadata to figure out what 
versification to use. It gets it from the command line.

At least that is how I'm using it and it seems to work.

In my opinion, I think it would be worth your while to learn Perl (which excels 
at parsing and massaging text) rather than try to figure out how to write XML 
from LibreOffice Calc...just my opinion. I had a project to do converters from 
Logos XML format to OSIS XML. It turned out to be non-trivial, and took me two 
years to write scripts to handle Bibles, Commentaries, Dictionaries, and 
General Books.

I am (at least theoretically) willing to share my scripts. I realize few if 
anyone on this forum is converting from Logos XML, so the scripts would need to 
be adapted or serve as models for other projects.

John



The text ( https://git.door43.org/Door43-Catalog/en_tn ) is not in currently in 
a format supported by anything except unfoldingWord, ( 
https://door43.org/u/Door43-Catalog/en_tn/ff70a8adb2/ ) but it is in a regular 
format. So the manual transform  into a supported form is currently planned to 
go directly into OSIS. Considering the depth of the information, this seems the 
most likely to succeed and keep the information present and usable.

"Build my own tools" is stronger language than I would use for my effort. I do 
plan to write stuff (LibreOffice Calc functions) that output OSIS directly from 
the spreadsheet files in the link, but not the module. I can synthesize what 
needs to happen for all of this except the header text that will make the 
subsequent validation and conversion to module work. An example OSIS source 
text for a valid sword commentary would be most helpful.

The The English TN is based on ASV(NRSV) versification. But there other 
languages--Russian, French, Italian where I'm expecting the reference edition 
to be other versifications, because the versification was established to follow 
the vulgate or something like it long before modern era.  maybe I'm seeing a 
mountain where none exists, or a problem that remains unsolvable in Sword 
(linking to scripture across versifications). It seems like there should be 
some hook in the work itself or along with each link that describes the 
versification of the intended scripture target. I'm not seeing how to encode 
that.



On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 11:28 AM Greg Hellings < 
greg.helli...@gmail.com > wrote:


On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 2:08 PM Michael H < 
cma...@gmail.com > wrote:
So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that will 
become commentaries.

The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the versification, 
primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about Psalm 119 doesn't 
show up on 118 or 120.

The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file? (after the 
module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that probably won't apply 
to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and there's no reason to convert 
to a intermediate format.

Correct, but you'll eventually need to pass it through an import utility, 
unless you write the module directly yourself from a custom crafted tool. But, 
even then, you'll still need to declare the versification manually when you 
create the module object (or accept the KJV default) so that any index file is 
properly written out.


There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the OSIS 
myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding the 
versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD 
versification item?

Pretty sure that OSIS headers have a field for it. Almost as sure that the 
osis2mod tool ignores it along with just about everything else in the header.

--Greg

John Dudeck
Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France
john.dud...@sim.orgj...@editionscle.com
--
"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." --C.S. Lewis

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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Michael H]

The text (https://git.door43.org/Door43-Catalog/en_tn) is not in currently
in a format supported by anything except unfoldingWord, (
https://door43.org/u/Door43-Catalog/en_tn/ff70a8adb2/) but it is in a
regular format. So the manual transform  into a supported form is currently
planned to go directly into OSIS. Considering the depth of the information,
this seems the most likely to succeed and keep the information present and
usable.

"Build my own tools" is stronger language than I would use for my effort. I
do plan to write stuff (LibreOffice Calc functions) that output OSIS
directly from the spreadsheet files in the link, but not the module. I can
synthesize what needs to happen for all of this except the header text that
will make the subsequent validation and conversion to module work. An
example OSIS source text for a valid sword commentary would be most
helpful.

The The English TN is based on ASV(NRSV) versification. But there other
languages--Russian, French, Italian where I'm expecting the reference
edition to be other versifications, because the versification was
established to follow the vulgate or something like it long before modern
era.  maybe I'm seeing a mountain where none exists, or a problem that
remains unsolvable in Sword (linking to scripture across versifications).
It seems like there should be some hook in the work itself or along with
each link that describes the versification of the intended scripture
target. I'm not seeing how to encode that.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 11:28 AM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 2:08 PM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that
>> will become commentaries.
>>
>> The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the
>> versification, primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about
>> Psalm 119 doesn't show up on 118 or 120.
>>
>> The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file?
>> (after the module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that
>> probably won't apply to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and
>> there's no reason to convert to a intermediate format.
>>
>
> Correct, but you'll eventually need to pass it through an import utility,
> unless you write the module directly yourself from a custom crafted tool.
> But, even then, you'll still need to declare the versification manually
> when you create the module object (or accept the KJV default) so that any
> index file is properly written out.
>
>
>> There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the
>> OSIS myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding
>> the versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD
>> versification item?
>>
>
> Pretty sure that OSIS headers have a field for it. Almost as sure that the
> osis2mod tool ignores it along with just about everything else in the
> header.
>
> --Greg
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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Greg Hellings]

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 2:08 PM Michael H  wrote:

> So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that
> will become commentaries.
>
> The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the
> versification, primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about
> Psalm 119 doesn't show up on 118 or 120.
>
> The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file? (after
> the module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that probably
> won't apply to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and there's no
> reason to convert to a intermediate format.
>

Correct, but you'll eventually need to pass it through an import utility,
unless you write the module directly yourself from a custom crafted tool.
But, even then, you'll still need to declare the versification manually
when you create the module object (or accept the KJV default) so that any
index file is properly written out.


> There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the
> OSIS myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding
> the versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD
> versification item?
>

Pretty sure that OSIS headers have a field for it. Almost as sure that the
osis2mod tool ignores it along with just about everything else in the
header.

--Greg
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[sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Michael H]

So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that will
become commentaries.

The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the
versification, primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about
Psalm 119 doesn't show up on 118 or 120.

The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file? (after
the module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that probably
won't apply to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and there's no
reason to convert to a intermediate format.

There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the OSIS
myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding the
versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD
versification item?

Maybe what I'm asking is to see a complete header text of the OSIS file
that built properly into a commentary of the whole bible, including
inter-book references. Are there any examples available?
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