RE: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
As silly as Paul's argument is, I think it is appropriate, considering the IOC's absolutely asinine lead. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Alsdorf Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 2:53 PM women's (as far as athletics goes). Thus the unfairness. Would it be fair if I had 20-foot stilts implanted in my legs because that's what I felt I was naturally meant to have, and then broke the world record in the pole vault by stepping over the bar? No. Would it be fair if I felt that I was naturally 8 years old, and tried to compete in the junior olympics? No. How is this situation any different? > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Nov 15, 2003 1:22 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes > > On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:42:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00), [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > >> Are you a doctor? > > Yes, as a matter of fact Wayne IS a doctor! > >> Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the experts >> say they will be competing on a equal footing, then we should trust >> they have the best of the Olympic movement in mind which means that >> everyone should have the opportunity to compete. > > People have to earn my trust- I don't give it away. > And lately the IOC isn't exactly on a hot streak of proving that they > have ANYBODY'S best interest in mind except their own wallet and > political power. > >> which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. > > Hey that means I can compete next year in Atlanta too, at > age 47! After all you don't want politically incorrect age > discrimination do you? Or discrimination against the > fitness-challenged? No, let EVERYONE compete. Just give everybody > world wide the same day off every four years, to go out to the nearest > track, and call it an 'everybody participates' Olympics. > > This is garbage and you know it. > > Life is full of choices. If Michael Johnson chose to have somebody > chop off his Johnson, he could no longer compete as MJ. > ..h > > RT > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 08:22 PM, tafnut wrote: What if they find out a certain race of people have a physiologically significant advantage in a certain sport or event? Should they be disqualified from competing? Irrelevant. The comparable situation would be, say, Michael Jackson being allowed to compete in a "Whites only" race. It'd still be against the spirit of those rules. And before you say that if it is a natural advantage, all the power to them. Transsexual people don't feel natural as the sex they were born as, so they need the sex change operation so they can feel comfortable with their own gender like the rest of us. That is what is natural for them. You're confusing, and equating, psychology with physiology. I don't give a rat's ass what operations anyone elects to have; they don't change anyone's genetic makeup, which is what gives you athletic potential. The fact of the matter is that transsexuals are born, depending on how you look at it, with either an unnatural physiology or an unnatural psychology (those terms are meant to be morally neutral). One of the two has to change before the person feels 'natural.' But if the exterior of a person changes in order to satisfy a psychological need, it doesn't change the underlying physical capabilities, which in the case of men, are significantly greater than women's (as far as athletics goes). Thus the unfairness. Would it be fair if I had 20-foot stilts implanted in my legs because that's what I felt I was naturally meant to have, and then broke the world record in the pole vault by stepping over the bar? No. Would it be fair if I felt that I was naturally 8 years old, and tried to compete in the junior olympics? No. How is this situation any different? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 15, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:42:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a doctor? Yes, as a matter of fact Wayne IS a doctor! Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement in mind which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. People have to earn my trust- I don't give it away. And lately the IOC isn't exactly on a hot streak of proving that they have ANYBODY'S best interest in mind except their own wallet and political power. which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. Hey that means I can compete next year in Atlanta too, at age 47! After all you don't want politically incorrect age discrimination do you? Or discrimination against the fitness-challenged? No, let EVERYONE compete. Just give everybody world wide the same day off every four years, to go out to the nearest track, and call it an 'everybody participates' Olympics. This is garbage and you know it. Life is full of choices. If Michael Johnson chose to have somebody chop off his Johnson, he could no longer compete as MJ. ..h RT
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
Do you have a name? If so, use it. tafnut wrote: Are you a doctor? Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement in mind which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. -Original Message- From: "Wayne T. Armbrust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Nov 15, 2003 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC cram this down the throat of the IAAF? Stella Franci wrote: Dear Track & Field, Stella Franci wants you to know about a story on http://www.smh.com.au. The online edition of The Sydney Morning Herald brings you updated local and world news, sports results, entertainment news and reviews and the latest technology information. Click here to sign up for early morning news alerts from The Sydney Morning Herald newsroom. http://www.smh.com.au/newsletters/subscription.html Personal Message: Games opened to transsexual athletes November 15, 2003 URL: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/14/1068674387895.html -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
You know what I meant about "everyone having the opportunity". Even you at 47 have the opportunity: if at 47 you can meet the minimum standards (qualifying and finishing in the top 3 at the trials), you should be able to compete (assuming you don't test positive for THG). Hell, Edwin Moses is giving it a shot. What if they find out a certain race of people have a physiologically significant advantage in a certain sport or event? Should they be disqualified from competing? And before you say that if it is a natural advantage, all the power to them. Transsexual people don't feel natural as the sex they were born as, so they need the sex change operation so they can feel comfortable with their own gender like the rest of us. That is what is natural for them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 15, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:42:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Are you a doctor? Yes, as a matter of fact Wayne IS a doctor! >Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the >experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then >we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement >in mind which means that everyone should have the >opportunity to compete. People have to earn my trust- I don't give it away. And lately the IOC isn't exactly on a hot streak of proving that they have ANYBODY'S best interest in mind except their own wallet and political power. >which means that everyone should have the opportunity to >compete. Hey that means I can compete next year in Atlanta too, at age 47! After all you don't want politically incorrect age discrimination do you? Or discrimination against the fitness-challenged? No, let EVERYONE compete. Just give everybody world wide the same day off every four years, to go out to the nearest track, and call it an 'everybody participates' Olympics. This is garbage and you know it. Life is full of choices. If Michael Johnson chose to have somebody chop off his Johnson, he could no longer compete as MJ. ..h RT
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:42:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Are you a doctor? Yes, as a matter of fact Wayne IS a doctor! >Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the >experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then >we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement >in mind which means that everyone should have the >opportunity to compete. People have to earn my trust- I don't give it away. And lately the IOC isn't exactly on a hot streak of proving that they have ANYBODY'S best interest in mind except their own wallet and political power. >which means that everyone should have the opportunity to >compete. Hey that means I can compete next year in Atlanta too, at age 47! After all you don't want politically incorrect age discrimination do you? Or discrimination against the fitness-challenged? No, let EVERYONE compete. Just give everybody world wide the same day off every four years, to go out to the nearest track, and call it an 'everybody participates' Olympics. This is garbage and you know it. Life is full of choices. If Michael Johnson chose to have somebody chop off his Johnson, he could no longer compete as MJ. ..h RT
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
Are you a doctor? Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement in mind which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. -Original Message- From: "Wayne T. Armbrust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Nov 15, 2003 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC cram this down the throat of the IAAF? Stella Franci wrote: >Dear Track & Field, > >Stella Franci wants you to know about a story on http://www.smh.com.au. The online >edition of The Sydney Morning Herald brings you updated local and world news, sports >results, entertainment news and reviews and the latest technology information. > >Click here to sign up for early morning news alerts from The Sydney Morning Herald >newsroom. http://www.smh.com.au/newsletters/subscription.html > >Personal Message: > > >Games opened to transsexual athletes > >November 15, 2003 > >URL: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/14/1068674387895.html > > > > > -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
No problem, just let them in then suspend them. Turn positive PR into negative PR ... best of both worlds. Dan --- "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Won't some of the drug tests be skewed? > > "Wayne T. Armbrust" wrote: > > > This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to > > female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, > > will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC > > cram this down the throat of the IAAF? > > > = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
RE: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
Also, wasn't gender testing stopped years ago? I suppose the ultimate political correctness would be to eliminate separate male and female events. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 9:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes Won't some of the drug tests be skewed? "Wayne T. Armbrust" wrote: > This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to > female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, > will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC > cram this down the throat of the IAAF? >
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
Won't some of the drug tests be skewed? "Wayne T. Armbrust" wrote: > This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to > female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, > will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC > cram this down the throat of the IAAF? >
Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
This is absolutely absurd, terminal political correctness. A male to female (so-called) transsexual, even after undergoing hormone therapy, will still have much higher strength indexes than women. Can the IOC cram this down the throat of the IAAF? Stella Franci wrote: Dear Track & Field, Stella Franci wants you to know about a story on http://www.smh.com.au. The online edition of The Sydney Morning Herald brings you updated local and world news, sports results, entertainment news and reviews and the latest technology information. Click here to sign up for early morning news alerts from The Sydney Morning Herald newsroom. http://www.smh.com.au/newsletters/subscription.html Personal Message: Games opened to transsexual athletes November 15, 2003 URL: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/14/1068674387895.html -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
