Re: t-and-f: Stripper
This is a first. Congrats to Nad, or whoever you are. Let's out the stripper. Second, you are the first sub four minute miler to post nudity to this boring ass list. Go NAD. Screw this list. Schiefer
Re: t-and-f: Stripper
I would have to agree, a bold move for one of the list's faster members. Jezz' almost hark's back to the glory days wehn the list was dominated by college kids who can really talk smack, not just bitch about advertising/ religious sayings and the like. As for the "stripper", guess she got a nice chunck of change to help pay for her tuition, I have wondered based on the times someone posted that they found for her, was she getting an "athletic scholarship money", or did she just want to get back on the team?? Also I wonder how Dan wilson found out about those photo's, are you a regular to that site?? haaha (not that i disapprove or anything) maybe they will inspire another great run at PENN this year. later-npm
t-and-f: Regionals
I'd love to see a variation on golf's U.S. open scenario, where 25% of the USATF nationals participants come via local and regional qualifiers. It would create more local publicity for the national meet without affecting the top places very much. More importantly, it would create a logical and easily publicized set of competition opportunities at the sub-elite level. - Ed Parrot The problem with that being the head to head competition in track and field as opposed to golf. If you let local runners into a meet who wouldn't normally be there, they are most likely going to get beaten handily. In golf it isn't as easy to see because Johnny Local and Tiger Woods aren't actually teeing off at the exact same time. Johnny Local would get embarrassed by Mo' Green. DanGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
Excuse me, but what percentage of the time when a gun is fired at Penn is there even the theoretical possibility of an NCAA qualifying mark being recorded? While I cannot answer to Division I (and I know that a lot of the list members believe that DI is the only real track and field division out there), I know that the staff at Penn (and I am pretty sure that at Drake and Mt. SAC) spend a lot of time signing POP forms for Division II and III athletes. Perhaps Dave Johnson can give some approximate numbers. And by the way, before all of those track gurus chime in a attest of the "quality of DI racing", I can say that I have witnessed many more and just as competitive and exciting 3:25 4X400's than 3:00 4X400. As to the regional concept, I know that administrators, for years, have wanted more head to head competition, especially when they authorize millions of dollars for facilities on their campus. How can facilities be justified when a school has only one or two meets a year at home? The other question that comes to mind is what is wrong with head to head competition. I certainly don't think that all of those thousands that used to sit in the stands in the 50' and 60's to watch USC and UCLA duals really cared about whether someone qualified for the NCAA meet. They were more interested to see the athlete in their favorite uniform beat the one in the other school's uniform. I think that some of the biggest complainers of the regionalization of track are those who have either had to run a lot of meets at home are compelled to do so. Having a home meet is a real pain when one figures that the home coaches have to do most of the grunt work. Regionalization is going to mean that more dua/tri/quad meets might have to be run and since there will be another meet(s) in the schedule, then more expense will have to be incurred. I am not sure where the idea for regionalization is coming from: the Presidents, the A.D.'s, the media, USATF, or the coaches. I do know one thing, we as coaches have, at times, done more to hurt ourselves as a profession and the sport in general. We have done more coaching an athlete how to reach a mark than we have in coaching an athlete on how to hate to loose a competition Perhaps regionalization will help bring back that head to head competition of the "person in the blue uniform beating the person in the red" in order to get to the next level. Only time will tell, not 500 posting on all of the negative aspects of regionalization. A wise old sage said once, "Be careful of what you ask for, you may get it." Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA
t-and-f: Marion vs. Marita
Danny McCray raised an interesting point in an off-list post, and that's that the "WR" that Marion Jones is going for at Mt. SAC, 34.1, was run around two turns (because it's the 300 split in Marita Koch's 47.60 WR in the 400). Marion will have the advantage of only having to run a single turn. So unless she runs about 33.5 (plug in your own number here if you like), I'll still consider Koch's mark the superior. gh
Re: t-and-f: Stripper
In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 9:06:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "nad wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alright, I don't want to be the guy known as the porn peddler but. all i can say is, "go-nad!"
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Dan wrote: The problem with that being the head to head competition in track and field as opposed to golf. If you let local runners into a meet who wouldn't normally be there, they are most likely going to get beaten handily. In golf it isn't as easy to see because Johnny Local and Tiger Woods aren't actually teeing off at the exact same time. Johnny Local would get embarrassed by Mo' Green. The kind of Johnny locals who make it to the U.S. open are the equivalent of maybe a 10.4 100m runner. Such a runner will certainly be eliminated in the trials, just as most of the bottom seeds are now, and willnot be embarrassed any more than the bottom seeds are now. The point is to build a meaningful series of developmental meets so that all but the top 10 seeds or so in each event have to consider the regional championships as a meet they may want to run. - ed parrot
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:26:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "denise lockett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just don't understand all the whining about a change that seems so clearly positive from the point of view of encouraging competition. Because you've uncovered one of the sport's dirty little secrets: everybody is more interested in protecting their own teeny little bit of turf than they are in fostering the sport as a whole. As it was in the beginning, is now gh
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
In a message dated Sat, 14 Apr 2001 1:47:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, the USC-UCLA meet has traditionally been the first Saturday in May, and the weather has generally been pretty good for it. Moving it a week earlier would probably invite poorer weather. LOL! The WORST day in LA from January through May is probably better than the BEST day in the majority of the rest of the country. Bitching about SoCal weather is like being upset when your Ferrari shows up and it's black instead of red. gh ps--every coach of a team north of the 40th parallel should be ecstatic at the prospect of the Nationals being held a week later, after his kids have had that much more of a chance to train in decent weather.
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
Have to agree. Certainly thre will be some wrinkles and bugs to work out as folks absorb the change. Big thing is it may help pump a bit of life into college track which has been moving toward terminal for a long time. We can't achieve March Madness but at least this may help get more notice and stir regional competition. Here in Texas (a high school hot bed) college track is almost unheard of (brief flurry at Texas Relays time), Once with the likes of Bobby Morrow, Eddie Southern, etc. it was a big deal. Now you can hardly find mention in a metro paper about a college track meet in Texas much less best times lists etc. Our high school kids go off to college (like to Stanford, Butler Co., etc.) and may just disappear. So let's give this Regional thing a try - it may be a much needed shot in the arm. Gordon Pynes TCU alum
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
I just don't understand all the whining about a change that seems so clearly positive from the point of view of encouraging competition. Because you've uncovered one of the sport's dirty little secrets: everybody is more interested in protecting their own teeny little bit of turf than they are in fostering the sport as a whole. As it was in the beginning, is now gh If "fostering the sport as a whole" means enhancing the NCAA Championships, I would have to agree. But, pardon my provincialism if I find conference championships -- with their true team competition among athletes we have come to know -- a much more important part of collegiate athletics than NCAAs. Denise seems to think moving regionals into May should not endanger conference championships. But that's not what the coaches are saying.
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Coach Nick makes some good points. One more I'd like to make is that even the big track powers who send legions to nationals, win titles, produce world class athletes and so on...THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY FOR THEIR SCHOOLS OR THE NCAA! Its a blackhole financially. College track, post-collegiate track, all of it. People should be happy to get whatever scholarships or money they get, as its basically just charity. Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Regionals Ed- (and list) your problem here is you think it is the NCAA's( and schools themselves) job's to get these kids ready for International comp?? GET REAL, this list is so off base when they talk about this stuff, it isnt funny. If those 100 or more kids want to start in mid may that is fine, just let them pay their respective tuitions and do their thing. College Track is way more than the 1% who go to nationals, and as many of our european folks will say, "school is for learning and Athletics is run by clubs" School is for people who wish to learn, school's sponsor sports (especailly non revenue one's) to give an all around experience for "mind and body". While most schools love the press that having an athlete of theirs make the Olympic team or such gets them, don't think for a second that school Ad's or presidents give two shits what USATF wants or does. 98% of Kids who do NCAA Track will never go to a NCAA Meet, most schools never send anyone, and they dont stop having teams. These kids do it for their love of the sport, and the schools have the sport to enhance kids experiences, and they know they will see that money back many times over in donations and the like. Fire away! nick (with first hand experience at many different levels)
t-and-f: This list is ridiculous!
Hmmm... Some whine and cry about a poster using a Bible verse in his auto signature while others encourage the use of porn on this list. Who is the list manager, and why hasn't he/she taken appropriate action? I wonder if the U of Oregon would be interested in knowing that its servers are being used to distribute porn. I wonder if the readers of TF News would be interested in knowing that its editor endorses porn and its unsolicited distribution. I wonder if Mr. Hill's wife and family would be interested in knowing of his endorsement. You guys are so shortsighted that you've never even considered the possible subscriber who struggles with sexual addictions, not to mention the implications of pornography on society (particularly in the USA). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Stripper Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:17:12 EDT In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 9:06:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "nad wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alright, I don't want to be the guy known as the porn peddler but. all i can say is, "go-nad!" _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
In a message dated Sat, 14 Apr 2001 1:13:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jack Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If "fostering the sport as a whole" means enhancing the NCAA Championships, I would have to agree. But, pardon my provincialism if I find conference championships -- with their true team competition among athletes we have come to know -- a much more important part of collegiate athletics than NCAAs. No, I'm not saying that at all; I'm saying that the paramount goal in collegiate athletics should be to make competition part of the equation again. The bulk of the collegiate season will no longer be spent chasing the elusive Q. Not only will there be a better looking product, we'll also be teaching our athletes how to be tougher in real competition. gh
t-and-f: silly indoor 200s revisited
OK, so i need to read farther in the IAAF Rules. No wonder lanes 5 and 6 had such an advantage at the World Indoor. Rule 214.10 (i guess i stopped memorizing at about 213.8) says that the 200 is seeded from the beginning, with 5 and 6 getting preference. Hence the almost impoossible nature of anyone advancing from another lane; not only are they too tight, they're also filled with the slower people. But to show you how the 5-6 preference is perpetuated, here's what happened subsequently: women's semis: 5-6-4-3, 6-5-3-4, 5-6-4-3; men's semis 5-6-4-3, 5-4-6-3, 6-5-3-4 so 11 of 12 finalists came from 5 and 6. Order in the finals was 5-4-6-3-1-2 for women, 4-5-3-2-1 in the men (6 empty). So, I still say they shouldn't be running the 200 indoors. gh
Re: t-and-f: This list is ridiculous!
In a message dated 4/14/01 10:55:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder if the readers of TF News would be interested in knowing that its editor endorses porn and its unsolicited distribution. I wonder if Mr. Hill's wife and family would be interested in knowing of his endorsement. You guys are so shortsighted that you've never even considered the possible subscriber who struggles with sexual addictions, not to mention the implications of pornography on society (particularly in the USA). RELAX!!
Re: t-and-f: Re: Stripper
Oh god, let's not drag this out into a 100 post discussion about the moral values of America...because there are none. If a kid wanted to look at porn all he has to do is wait till mommy and daddy are gone or in bed and get on the internet...it's not difficult. Now, if the list moderator acted as a censor then you'd have no problem with porn getting in. And this style of Playboy porn is like a beautiful sunset compared to the hardcore baseball bat up the cunt stuff that is out there. The human body is a beautiful thing. Some of us need to realize that a naked body is not pornography. You can take an art class and see the same nudity in figure drawing. Get with it, get over it. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: content
well, this is a tf listlast year when i suggested to someone that they read my book (american women's track and field:a history 1895-1980), before posting women's history comments, the list supervisor suggested that i not advertise (of course, this has been done since)...but where is he/she now and you get on dgs for his quotes?
Re: t-and-f: This list is ridiculous! [note:TF Question After Rant}
I apologize in advance for responding to such an obvious troll, but ... SD Cap'n wrote: I wonder if the U of Oregon would be interested in knowing that its servers are being used to distribute porn. First, the message in question did NOT distribute anything except a sequence of letters designating a certain internet URL. Second, the message warned you of the content displayed at said URL; why did YOU go to that web site, knowing in advance that you would be offended? Third, your definition of "porn" seems to include something which is common, legal and at worst, offensive mainly to strict puritans. What you call "porn" can be seen every day at hundreds of public beaches in America, and most throughout the rest of the civilized world. By your definition, I have "porn" in my house every day and every night (well, I wish). I wonder if the readers of TF News would be interested in knowing that its editor endorses porn and its unsolicited distribution. I wonder if Mr. X's wife and family would be interested in knowing of his endorsement. WHO THE F--- DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!?! If ever someone needed to be beaten to a bloody pulp for an offensive post to this list, it's you. You guys are so shortsighted that you've never even considered the possible subscriber who struggles with sexual addictions, not to mention the implications of pornography on society (particularly in the USA). Jerkass. If you struggle with sexual addictions, you should not have internet access. Read the previous sentence about 100 times, you stupid troll. Back to the track, please. With the renewed news regarding US high schoolers and the sub 4 minute mile, could someone tell me how many times Ryun, Danielson, Liquori et al. broke four minutes in HS. TIA Hope everyone gets to a good meet or two this weekend. Don
t-and-f: stripper
on 14/4/01 9:01 PM, alan tobin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh god, let's not drag this out into a 100 post discussion about the moral values of America... I'm assuming that Eamon Condon was being ironic... My problem with the photographs was that I couldn't believe she was a cross country runner because she looked to have the perfect body shape for playing football. Randall Northam
Re: t-and-f: stripper
I agree. She's way too attractive to be a cross country runner. s.devereaux Randall Northam wrote: on 14/4/01 9:01 PM, alan tobin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh god, let's not drag this out into a 100 post discussion about the moral values of America... I'm assuming that Eamon Condon was being ironic... My problem with the photographs was that I couldn't believe she was a cross country runner because she looked to have the perfect body shape for playing football. Randall Northam -- "I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't give a damn."
t-and-f: Wami beats Radcliffe at Balmoral
The Electronic Telegraph Sunday 15 April 2001 Matthew Hannah PAULA RADCLIFFE would have loved to have ended her winter season with victory in yesterday's five-mile road race at Balmoral Castle - but her arch rival, Gete Wami, crossed the line first to spoil her last race. Radcliffe, who has twice set world record times for the distance at the Royal Deeside venue, trailed in four seconds behind the Ethiopian, who unleashed a decisive sprint 200 metres from the line, winning in 25 min 14 sec. Wami said: "The race didn't take too much out of me. At times Paula made it hard but then she always does." Radcliffe said: "I have to be happy with my winter season. I've won the world half-marathon and then the world cross-country title." Before Radcliffe's race, former European 3,000m indoor champion John Mayock won the Tesco Italiano four-kilometre race for the first time in four visits to the Scottish venue. Britain's top miler for the last five years crossed the line ahead of Australia's Mike Power, even though the pair were given the same time of 11-02. Early pacemaker Mike Openshaw, of Birchfield, finished third in 11-13. Mayock, who broke for the line with 800m remaining, said: "I wanted to win the race for my daughter, Elizabeth, who celebrated her first birthday last Monday, and my wife, Lindsey, who had hers on Thursday. After the near-misses I've had here it was great to cross the line first." Kelly Holmes admitted the field in the Compaq three-kilometre race could have been stronger after favourite Asmae Leghzaoui withdrew. But last year's heroic Olympic 800m bronze medallist was thrilled with her victory. "Happy? I'm delighted. Before the race I couldn't honestly say I would complete the course," said Holmes. She sat in behind Amanda Parkinson, of Sale Harriers, before unleashing a sprint finish in the final 400m which proved more than enough to secure victory. She added: "I didn't know what would happen. I've rarely run the distance and never on the roads. I didn't know what to expect. "I only got here from South Africa on Thursday and while over there I was sick. I really do want another good summer after all that has gone before." Double world cross-country champion Mohammed Mourhit won a thrilling BUPA five-mile race in a close finish with Assefa Mezgebu, the Olympic 10,000m bronze medallist. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com
RE: t-and-f: NCAA regionals, etc
The two points are related. Track Field doesn't get scholarships because it isn't a money sport. And it isn't a money sport because it doesn't generally draw spectators because, for example, last chance qualifer meets are a joke that nobody comes to see. Casual spectators want to see races not time trials. Regional meets are not perfect but they are a step in the right direction. Tell Joe Sixpack that the top finishers in a race qualify for nationals and the race becomes interesting. Tell him the automatic and provisional qualifying marks with adjustments for altitude, etc. and his eyes glaze over. Anything that puts more fans in the stands puts more pressure on the NCAA to give track field a fair deal. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: "Michael J. Roth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track Listserve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 13, 2001 12:25:35 AM GMT Subject: t-and-f: NCAA regionals, etc The Regionals system is not going to increase the performances of athletes whatsoever. Return the scholarship numbers to what they were in the early 80's and that will make the difference. If you look at collegiate perfomances, esp. the disatances, the level of excellence drops off as the scholarship allotment was withered away in favor of the "money" sports. The more athletes that don't have to work at McD's to make ends meet in college, the better the performances will be. It is the same w/ the open elites as well. MJR
t-and-f: From the list moderator.
Hi. Fred Finke here. I am the current moderator until April 17th. I have been trying to put out this little "stripper thread" fire offline. However, It is time to make a general statement. Regardless of my personal beliefs, this thread is proving to be offensive to SEVERAL people on the list. Please discontine at the time. PLEASE COMMUNICATE VIA PRIVATE E-MAIL WITH EACH OTHER IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION. Continued abuse of this thread could result in the U of O shutting us down. I am recommending to the rest of the moderating staff that any more propagation of this thread result in a "time out" for the poster. Please remember this list is to be a discussion area for ELITE track and field/Cross-Country. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net ***
RE: t-and-f: Regionals
My understanding is that the NCAA meet will be a week later with the Regionals two weekends before. Thus the conference meets would only have to be a week ealier to be two weekends before Regionals. If the rest of the west coast schedule also goes a week earlier (including Mt.SAC) there would be no problem in the west except for anyone who goes east for Penn and Drake. And certainly weather isn't an issue in Southern California. Remember that Mt. Sac used to be a week later against Penn and Drake but moved earlier to avoid the conflict and has done better ever since. I appreciate Scott's concerns about moving from the status quo again, but my guess is his meet will continue to do well if it adjusts. East of the Rockies, I guess Penn and Drake would be reluctant to go a week earlier because of weather. The loser could be the IC4A in the East which serves as a super conference meet of almost 100 schools. Coaches will not want it the week before Regionals, and two weeks before will crowd it against the league meets. Unless the league meets in the east go to April (like the ACC in the south), the only alternative may be for the IC4A to be held the weekend between Regionals and Nationals as an "NIT" meet for the athletes who don't make it to the big dance. While I have strong loyalties to the IC4A (which is the oldest track field meet in the United States), I still think the pluses of the Regionals outweigh the costs. Getting rid of last chance qualifiers is a HUGE plus. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 13, 2001 8:17:12 PM GMT Subject: t-and-f: Regionals It seems to me that the simplest way to solve most of the problems involving regionals would be to set back the NCAA championship meet by a week or two -- where it used to be.
t-and-f: Any marks from meets?
It is Saturday night. A year or two ago, this list would be full of noteworthy marks by high schoolers, collegians, national elites, and international elites (although it is probably too early for the top guns to start running exceptional times). There would also be thoughtful commentary on those marks. Would anybody know where a person could find such information? Guy Oekerman Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
t-and-f: New JC Womens Vault Record
Becky Holliday, Clackamas Community COllege, jumped 13'7" 4.14 today to raise here national record. She had the bar then raised to 4.30. She switched to a 13'6 145 MsStik Carbon. Raised her grip to 12'8" and had on VERY close attempt. It shall be next weekend when she is over the flu and full of strength. Rick BAggett BTW she is not a stripper.
Re: t-and-f: This list is ridiculous!
Get a life and use the delete button if you don't like it. Ed
t-and-f: Vault question
Becky Holliday, Clackamas Community COllege, jumped 13'7" 4.14 today to raise here national record. She had the bar then raised to 4.30. She switched to a 13'6 145 MsStik Carbon. Raised her grip to 12'8" and had on VERY close attempt. It shall be next weekend when she is over the flu and full of strength. OK, having been largely away from vault coaching for five years and having never coached women vaulters, I am always surprised when I hear how short the poles are that these women are holding. It's not that theoretically a 13' pole is wrong for clearing 13' - technically that makes sense. But I can rarely remember ever seeing a high school boy with a PR in the 12'6 to 14' range vaulting on anything less than 14' foot pole and usually it's more like 14'6 or 15'. My experience coaching high school boys would suggest that the best high school girls would be using 14 foot poles and the best college women would be using 14'6 or 15' poles. I have had numerous young high school boys who were lucky to run 14 seconds for 100 meters and bench 65 pounds who were using 13' poles 5 pounds above their weight. I have had many other 11'6'-13'6 types who used 14' poles and were 13 second 100m type runners and 100-110 lb bench press types. For myself personally, I have never broken 12.5 and never benched over 130, but my best vaulting was done holding at 14'2 on a 15' pole rated exactly at my weight. Again, there is no question that these vaulters would have had better technique vaulting on poles that were 6" to 1' shorter. But they could vault higher in meets on longer poles, so that is what they used in meets. Do all the best high school and college women have such good technique that they WOULDN'T vault higher with longer poles? Or is there some other reason why your typical 120 lb high school freshman boy by the end of the season seems to be able to get on the same length poles as the elite high school girls? These same freshmen generally get beaten by the best one or two girl sprinters on most teams and certainly are not particularly strong. - Ed Parrot
