Re: RE: t-and-f: can I come back now? It depends...what do you think of Milli Vanilli?
Randy Treadway wrote: You mean the disappearance of meaningful collegiate competition and the rise of day-long time trial meets that no one wants to watch? I assume you mean NCAA meets chasing meaningless provisional qualifiers. Give me the best individuals of the world in Zurich chasing world records, with rabbits in every race (something that some people deride as 'time trials') and I'll tune in at 3am every time. As far as 'meaningful collegiate competition', I have to admit that I no longer care less whether Florida State beats Florida or UCLA beats USC. It's totally an individual sport for me, and team scores are something that is superimposed on the top of it for nothing more than provincial bragging rights. That's just the way it is, and I'm not really dissatisfied with it that way. RT Randy-You and I will be track fans no matter how boring the sport becomes to the average sports fan. And that average Joe is the dude we're trying to court. Who goes to college meets? Friends, family and super nuts like you and me. We need the average college sports fan, say a fan of Cal or Stanford, to want to go to the Cal-Stanford dual even if he's not necessarily a big track fan. At least Cal and Stanford have one dual on their schedule! Not to pick on just these schools, but what about Arkansas, LSU, Alabama, UTEP, etc. Who wants to go to their home meets? I receive dozens of collegiate press releases each week. These are supposed to make their way into local papers. Do you know what the headlines are? 4 Wildcats post provisional qualifiers. Bulldogs show well at home meet. Tracksters qualify 3 more. Who gets excited about that? Look, we're never going to get back to the days of 15,000 people at the UCLA-USC dual meet, but we've got to do something to make track interesting once again to the average fan. Regionals is at least a step in the right direction. Harping on drug use and blaming them for the decline ain't helping either. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: can I come back now? It depends...what do you think of Milli Vanilli?
Malmo wrote: That's the problem with Track and Field News. You guys incapable of identifying and discussing the REAL issue that is destroying the sport. The REAL issue destroying the sport? You mean the disappearance of meaningful collegiate competition and the rise of day-long time trial meets that no one wants to watch? You mean the lack of coverage of our sport by the media (and don't say it's because of drugs. The dropoff was WAY before '88)? Of course drugs hurt our sport. But if you think they're the number one reason track field is hurting, I think you're WAY off base. There was a thread on that other discussion list where someone insisted that Ryan Shay was on drugs because he's so muscular. Christ, we have to defend 2:14 marathoners against accusations of drug use now? If our best guys are only running 2:14 and are on steroids, I'd suggest they start on the EPO as well (tongue-in-cheek of course)!!! Imagine if Europeans start running consistently as fast as they did in the '70's and early 80's. If white Frenchmen, Belgians, Finns and Swedes ever run 13:15, 27:30, 8:10 times imagine how we'll cry DOPE! then. sideshow
t-and-f: Chemnitz results
World Leaders in m60 (Gardner, but he doesn't win!!!), mLJ (Phillips) and mPV (Lobinger and Ptacek). Becker now #3 PV all-time indoors at 15-3.75. These and other results are linked through the TF site: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/results/hotLinks.jsp Dan Lilot Statistician TFN
Re: t-and-f: January TF News...
My brother received his issue in Italy several days ago. sideshow
t-and-f: High School State Meet dates/locations help???
Does anyone know the dates and/or locations of the outdoor high school track field state meets for the following (largest division only, if more than one division): Florida location ?, May 1617 Maine Missouri New Hampshire Rhode Island Vermont Thanks. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: Gene-doping
If we want to stop gene doping someone had better jump in a time machine and travel back a million years to the Rift Valley and stop it at the source. :-) sideshow
RE: t-and-f: AOY - French version
I believe one reason why the French don't particularly like Lance is that he has not made much of an effort to learn French (they still think it's the internatioinal language!), while Lemond was based there and spoke it fluently. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Breathing Technique?
The amount of air you can breathe in and out is NOT a limiting factor in running. What matters is how much blood you can pump to your lungs and then to the working muscles. That's not to say that developing a consistent breathing pattern that makes an athlete comfortable isn't important, but consciously trying to breathe in more air will only hurt you. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: The REAL athlete of the year
- Armstrong is praised as being unique among cyclists to be training for the TdF 7 months beforehand. Are all cyclists such wimps that such training seems arduous? If a long distance runner isn't training virtually year round, they're either not successful or considered a freak of nature. I also remember another story about how Armstrong was the first to use training techniques already common among runners 20 years ago. I think Armstrong might be the Ron Clarke of cycling, lifting the sport out of its tradition ridden roots that prevent truly hard training. I don't think other cyclists are losing to Lance in Le Tour because they're not training hard. Apart from being the best cyclist in the world, Lance points toward the Tour more than anyone else, it seems. Has he done the Giro (Tour of Italy) at all before the previous four Tours? Lance will be the first to name Eddy Merkcx (sp?) as the greatest of all time, because he won everything, not just 5 Tours. He won the Giro, the Vuelta (Tour of Spain), the winter classics, the fall classics, the World Championships, etc. Sure, the Tour is the biggest and best, but I think it's a shame when the top athletes only point toward the one big race. Ron Clarke was so great because he raced everywhere and anywhere all year. I did read an interesting article about how Lance's higher pedaling cadence is being adopted by other riders and has been shown by research to be more effiicent. A slower cadence (on a tougher gear) builds up more occlusion (intra-muscular) pressure, making it harder for oxygen to enter and wastes to leave the muscles. sideshow Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
What bothers me is that almost all media outlets are owned by just a handful of corporations, such as News Corp (Fox), Sony, AOL-Time Warner, Disney, etc. Check this out for more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/giants/ What kind of objective reporting do you think they're doing when the bottom line of all their other holdings are at stake? No wonder some want to cut funding to public broadcasting, which itself is increasingly dependent upon corporate money to survive. sideshow
t-and-f: Terre Haute list gathering?
This list is really going downhill. No talk of a pub get-together in Terre Haute? We had a great one in Lawrence '98 and Bloomington '99. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be as warm this year as 3 years ago when one could walk around at night in a t-shirt. Anyone have any suggestions, perhaps for a brewpub, in Terre Haute for Sunday night? I'll be coming from DII so might not show up until 8:00 or so. sideshow
t-and-f: 2002 Final U.S. lists
Now up on the TFN site are final U.S. lists for 2002. But just because these lists are final, doesn't mean they are 100% accurate. Please send any and all corrections/amendments to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enjoy! Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: 2002 Final U.S. lists
Oh yeah, the URL is: www.trackandfieldnews.com
t-and-f: No open race at Foot Locker Northeast???
Dangit. I've been to NYC three times and have run, but have never not been able to race, at Van Cortland Park on every visit. So this year I'll be visiting friends over Thanksgiving and had planned on running the McArdle 15K cross race that has ALWAYS been the Sunday after T'giving. But of course, this year they moved it to the Sunday BEFORE. And of course Foot Locker Northeast is the only one of the 4 regional meets NOT to have a people's race. I guess I'll have to console myself with the Turkey Trot 5-miler in Prospect Park on T'giving. Bummer. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Meanwhile back at the hall of fame....
The most exciting race I ever saw was the men's 5000 at Stuttgart in '93. TV doesn't do it justice, but the noise from the crowd over the final 200 as Kirui tried to hold off Geb and Bayissa was unbelievable. Earlier that summer Ondieki's sub-27:00 brought tears to my eyes. To be one of the 10,000 clapping and yelling fans for such an achievement is indescribable. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: NYC coverage
Back in the dark ages of the mid-80's, there was little if any track on TV. The Dream Mile from Bislett was the only European meet to be shown, but it was usually just the men's mile with perhaps the women's thrown in, if Decker was running. So the big event every year was the New York City Marathon. I would tape it and watch it over and over and get inspired to go out and run on my own at the age of 10 or 11. I was a weird kid. What dramatic amazing races! Dixon outkicking Geoff Smith in the rain. Who will ever forget that image of Dixon thanking the heavens while the brave Smith lies on the wet pavement. Pizzolato stopping several times in the park but still holding off Dave Murphy. Ahmed Salah building a huge lead, but Pizzolato running him down in park for his second straight win. It's safe to say that were it not for the NYC Marathon telecasts, I wouldn't be as involved in the sport to the extent I am now. There might be some 11-year-old kid out there now who would become a fan of the sport if he/she were only exposed to such exciting races on network TV. There are more track meets on TV now than 15 years ago, but there's also exponentially more channels competing for attention. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: sacral ala stress fracture
My roommate had a sacral stress fracture last year. He took almost two months completely off from running and it was completely healed. Of course, individual recovery time may vary. He stayed in good shape by running in the pool. He also corrected the strength imbalances that helped lead to the fracture with several exercises that work the hips, back and thighs. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: con man gets on track team
Perhaps he'll next apply for the Cal job. :-) sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Is This Really Possible??
I am not certain, but I believe he is in the Fila group of Doctor Pink, aka Dr. Rosa. sideshow
t-and-f: Attention list supervisor
Sorry to post this to everyone, but Mike Trujillo e-mailed me to contact the list supervisor because he has not received any posts from the list for a week or so. His address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! dan
t-and-f: Talence results???
I've looked all over, but I can't find full results for both men and women from this weekend's Decastar Meeting in Talence, France. The meet has a website, but it doesn't have results yet, as far as I can tell. It's possible they're in there somewhere, but my high school French hasn't TOTALLY left me yet... http://www.decastar.com Anyone seen full results anywhere else? sideshow
Re: t-and-f: dinner w/ a WR miler
I can't believe the IAAF allowed El G to have a rabbit (actually, I CAN believe it, but it's a damn shame). I was looking forward to EL G having to run a fast time on his own, and seeing how he'd fare acting as a rabbit for Lagat and others. The IAAF should be ashamed of themselves. I know that athletes such as El G have a lot of pull on the circuit, but why should the IAAF give in on this one? If he threatens to pull out of the GP Final, he'll be missing out on $150,000 or so. It wasn't like Parisians were storming the State Charlety to get in. Once you give in to this sh*t he'll be able to pull that stunt every year. Definitely a dark day for track. It even killed my excitement for the overal GP race. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Average stride length
Actually, for people in the normal range of height, stride length while running is not related to height. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Thank you note
Your tounger daughter? I could make some deliciously naughty joke outta that, but I'll leave it to people's imaginations and not get myself in trouble... sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Cool night opening
A night cross country meet! Does it take place on a lit path such as those for cross country skiiing? sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
Culpepper is debuting at Chicago. Hauser and Browne are debuting at Twin Cities in a month. Rumors have one of the other guys you mentioned debuting this fall as well. Don't know why Abdi isn't running. Never thought I'd write so much about debutantes. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: US Marathon champs 1992-2001
Pittsburgh WAS the '97 US Champs. Dave Scudamore had his breakthrough race in winning. Sideshow
t-and-f: Rovereto Meeting Entries
Below find entry lists for this Wednesday's Palio Della Quercia Meeting in Rovereto, in northern Italy. Looks like a good little meet. Dragila and Grigorieva in women's vault, Colin Jackson, Matt Lane in the 5000, Stringfellow and Phillips in the long jump, Ceplak in the 1000, et al. Quite a charming setting. Don't know if they still do, but they used to have the post-meet party at a beautiful castle that doubles as a military museum. Needless to say, great wine and pasta. Link to results will be on the TFN site (www.trackandfieldnews.com) Cod.Event M/W Num.Surname NameNat.Year best 1 100 A M 1 ZAKARI Abdul Aziz GHA 1 100 A M 2 SCUDERI Francesco ITA 10,32 1 100 A M 3 ALIUDejiNGR 10 1 100 A M 4 POWELL Asafa JAM 10 1 100 A M 5 TORRIERIMarco ITA 10,22 1 100 A M 6 CHECCUCCI MaurizioITA 10,39 1 100 B M wl SADDLER Gregory USA 10,09 1 100 B M 1 JOHNSON Patrick AUS 10,10* 1 100 B M 2 SIMONI LucaITA 10,38 1 100 B M 3 DONATI MassimilianoITA 10,38 1 100 B M 4 BELLOTTOStefano ITA 10,45 1 100 B M 5 MARANGONRoberto ITA 10,45 1 100 B M 6 x x x 2 400 A M 1 DWYER Patrick AUS 44,72 2 400 A M 2 CANAL David ESP 46 2 400 A M 3 FRANCIQUE Alleyne GRN 45 2 400 A M 4 ATTENE Alessandro ITA 45,91 2 400 A M 5 BLAHA Karel CZE 46 2 400 A M 6 CLARKE Davian JAM 45,62 2 400 B M 1 SALVUCCIMarco ITA 46,62 2 400 B M 2 SESTAK Matjia SLO 2 400 B M 3 GALLETTILucaITA 46,65 2 400 B M 4 VALLET Edoardo ITA 46,51 2 400 B M 5 x x x 2 400 B M 6 x x x 3 800 A M 1 YIAMPOY William KEN 1,43,69 3 800 A M 2 WACHIRA NicholasKEN 1,44,44 3 800 A M 3 HATUNGIMANA Artemon BUR 1,46,25 3 800 A M 4 THOMPSONFloyd USA 3 800 A M 5 McILROY James GBR 3 800 A M 6 NEUNHAUSERERChristian ITA 1,46,07 3 800 A M 7 OBRIST Christian ITA 1,47,49 3 800 A M 8 TELLEZ NorbertoCUB 1,45,25 3 800 A M 9 GIOCONDIAndrea ITA 3 800 A M 10 AISSAT Nicolas FRA 1,45,53 3 800 A M pm MARWA Francis KEN 3 800 B M 1 RONCALLIFrancesco ITA 1,47,76 3 800 B M 2 CHIAVARINI Marco ITA 3 800 B M 3 DE MEO Massimo ITA 1,47,59 3 800 B M 4 PERRONE Lorenzo ITA 3 800 B M 5 ARESE EmanueleITA 1,51,90 3 800 B M 6 BARTOLI LucaITA 3 800 B M 7 ANNIS Giorgio ITA 3 800 B M 8 ABDIYoucef AUS 3 800 B M 9 TURAN Ornek TUR 3 800 B M 10 BARTOLI LucaITA 4 5000M 1 TOROITICH Martin UGA 4 5000M 2 CHERUIYOT AbelKEN 4 5000M 3 MULIPiusKEN 4 5000M 4 KIPCHOGEEliud KEN 4 5000M 5 ESSAID MustaphaFRA 13,22,00 4 5000M 6 KEMEI-CHERUIYOT Philmon KEN 4 5000M 7 DIAZMauricioCHI 4 5000M 8 ARLATI Andrea ITA 4 5000M 9 LANEMattUSA 4 5000M 10 EL AMRI Kalid MAR 4 5000M 11 LEONE MaurizioITA 13,47,80 4 5000M 12 GAETA Christian ITA 4 5000M 13 CANNATA Lorenzo ITA 4 5000
Re: t-and-f: CU Head Coach Mark Wetmore Interview
Interesting interview. But notice how Wetmore admits he knows little or nothing about the Kenyans nor the European circuit and yet he claims EPO use is so widespread among top runners that it is the number one reason why Americans have fallen behind the rest of the world. Shame on him. sideshow
t-and-f: U.S versus Great Britain Russia
I'm a bit surprised I haven't seen any pre-meet publicity for the USA-GB-Russia meet to be held in Glasgow this Sunday. Sure, Zürich is the biggee this weekend, but Sunday's meet includes some good match-ups: 100: Chambers v. Bernard Williams and Jon Drummond. 110H: Jackson v. Johnson TJ: Edwards v. Walter Davis w400: Miles Clark v. Zygina (won Euro 400) wPV: Dragila v. Feofanova Don't know of a particular website for the meet, but the TFN results links section will have a link to the British Federation site, which will certainly have results. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News www.trackandfieldnews.com
t-and-f: Zürich pre-event
Except for the actual Weltklasse meet itself, one of the most talked about and anticipated events on the circuit this year is the agents soccer match to be held the day before the meet. Puma and adidas have ponied up with uniforms and a good deal of trash has been talked. The match reportedly has served as an important motivator for some agents, many of whom were formerly top athletes but now live rather unhealthy lifestyles. One agent, formerly a top marathoner, was quite proud to have started jogging again and was encouraged by some recent 40-second 200m repeats. Interest among the athletes is high and frenzied betting is now underway. The over/under for the score and pulled hamstrings is both 7. Detailed reports (2nd hand with a high level of unbelievability) will follow after the meet. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: women's AOY
And just as field event athletes are hurt in AOY voting because they can only do one discipline, a marathoner is hurt because he/she can't compete but 2 or three times a year at their main event, whereas Devers can run every third or fourth day for virtually the entire summer. If Radcliffe runs close to sub-30:00 in München and breaks 2:20 again in Chicago she's gotta be AOY, unless Devers breaks the WR. sideshow
t-and-f: Athletissima Lausanne
Check out the Lausanne website. They've got a clip of Burrell's 9.85 WR from '94. Also, I believe BBC Fivelive will have some radio reports live from Lausanne starting at 2:00pm EST. Links to both sites are available from the TFN site (www.trackandfieldnews.com), under the result links section. Dan Lilot TFN
Re: t-and-f: Komen
Komen has already gone through the motions once this year and run 7:44 (at Doha). I suspect he'll go through the motions a few more times and get down to 7:34/13:04 sometime this season. sideshow
t-and-f: Wither Bislett?
What was with all the empty space in the standing room section at Bislett? They say they want to tear down the sucker and build a new stadium, but they can't even fill the old one now. Not even in it's final year. When I went to Bislett in '95 and '96, I had to get there three hours early to get a standing room ticket (an expensive $25, but everything in Norway is expensive). And I had to fight to get to the front row in order to bang on the boards. This time on TV I saw people able to sit in the standing section. When I was there getting to the bathroom was an impossibility. I believe one big problem is that there are no big Norwegian stars. No Rodahl, no Hattestad, no Moen (okay, he's still there, but he's not making the women swoon like he used to), no Haugland, no Hoen. Marius Bakken certainly isn't gonna sell thousands of tickets. Track is in trouble, even in Europe. Soccer is eating everything up. And how are the fringe athletes going to be able to survive when people such as Goumri, the Moroccan, runs 13:06 for 5000 and gets 9th and gets $0. Nothing. No appearance money or anything. He'd be better off running 13:20 at some small meet in Greece or Italy and picking up a guaranteed $1500 or something. Having athletes duke it out for prize money sounds well and good, but if athletes aren't making any money they're not going to stay in the sport. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Webb goes pro; out of juniors
I'm sure Ray Flynn did not recruit Webb to his group by encouraging him to leave school. But if Webb wants to leave a school and sign with an agent, why should Flynn turn him down? sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Clueless Carl
Not that there's anything wrong with that! sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Pre T.V. coverage
I also thought the coverage was excellent. We often complain of not enough coverage in the distance races, but showing the last 3 laps of the 5K/3K was just fine. I am a bit concerned that the meet is now on ESPN 2 after previously being on CBS and ESPN, but I'll be selfish and take it if it means an hour and a half of coverage! My only complaint is that they didn't do close-up introductions of the women's 100 hurdles, so no Jenny Adams intro. :-) sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Pre 5000m entries
I apologize for hyping that Bekele would be coming to Pre, when it turns out he's not. I had heard rumors from his group in Holland that he would be coming over, but for Ethiopians to actually make it to a meet requires the government issuing an exit visa, the federation okaying it and all sorts of other bureaucratic nonsense. At least Mark Bett, the World Terrible Form Record holder, will be running. sideshow
t-and-f: F%*# Baseball!!!
Who gives a rat's ass about baseball! Okay, the issue of steroids in the sport is somewhat connected to track field, but I could care less if baseball is in bad financial shape. It's the national pastime and will always be around. What we need to worry about is track, a sport that is in lousy shape at all levels. Collegiate teams are getting cut, meets are dying in Europe and we're all fiddling while the Golden Gala burns. We had a fantastic meet at Portland and now it's only three days before Pre and there's been no discussion whatsoever! The men's shot is going to be incredible once again. After one of the greatest three-way battles ever last week in Portland, all the major players are back. Can Nelson throw even further? Sure. The conditions in Portland, where several hundred spectators surrounded the shot area, can only be matched in this country by Eugene's fans. Something special could be on tap. Then there's the men's mile. Lagat versus El G. One of only a handful of times the top two ranked athletes in that event will meet this year. I know sub-3:50 is tough mid-day in May, but it's possible. I didn't see the men's 5000 entries on the Pre site, but if all goes well, the Ethiopians will be there, including Kenisisa Bekele in his first track race since killing the fields in both races at World Cross. This could be the heir to Haile's throne. Also, great fields in every other event. I'll be at the pub Sunday night to watch it on ESPN2. You'd better be watching too, and not discussing Barry's biceps. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Kipketer Runs 8:05 ...Steeple!
It's safe to say this was an error and it was Wilson Boit Kipketer who ran the 8:05. No slouch himself, he was the World Champ and WR setter in '97 and Olympic silver medalists (would have won, IMHO, if Kosgei hadn't bumped him in the final straight). sideshow
Re: Re: t-and-f: Regional Qualifying (long)
Kebba-I know you too are a big track fan and that you just want what's best for the sport, just like we all do, but I do not think that the primary reason for the existence of the NCAA TF meet is to determine who is best. That's a result of having the meet, but the REAL reason for the meet existing at all is to provide a fantastic 4 days of the very best collegiate meet possible. Would the NCAA baskteball tournament exist if they played the games in some obscure gym with only a few dozen fans in attendance? No. Elite sports exist because they are a spectacle. Increased numbers at the NCAA meet will mean more qualifying rounds and more excitement. And that will bring more fans. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: '03 NCs finishign on June 14
Heck, imagine the lineup of track meets on the West Coast in May/June next year!!! My only fear is tha the Western Regional meet will conflict with the Prefontaine Classic, but maybe Oregon will host the meet, and they can have it Friday/Saturday with Pre on Sunday. Then the next week will be the Stanford GP, then NCAA, then the USATF Senior/Junior meet the week following. Throw in the Portland GP II meet a few weeks earlier, the Cal High School meet and a Pac-10 somewhere and you've got a lineup that would even be better than last year's Pre/NCAA/Portland GP/Stanford GP/Nationals West Coast extravaganza. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Steriod use 'rising'
Steroid use rising? How does the discovery of a new steroid mean that steroid usage is on the rise? Interesting that Dr. Catlin is not quoted as suggesting that steroid use is on the rise. Perhaps this is just the author's interpretation. And if steroid use WERE on an upswing, wouldn't we see all those records from the '70's and '80's being smashed? sideshow
t-and-f: It's Relays Weekend and the list is silent?!?!?!
C'mon, y'all. Penn and Drake are this weekend and there's not even a peep outta yooz. What happened to all the great remembrances from Relays past and the discussions (arguments ?) about which is better? Don't leave all the sh*t talking to those dribblers on the letsrun.com site. Who's gonna win the Penn DMR? 'Nova, says I. Webb will run a sub-4:00 leg. The amazing 4 x Mile that I had dreamt of with Webb, Jennings and some Arkansas guy anchoring won't come off, but it'll still be a good one. I say Arkansas takes it. I believe Wisconsin could be tough, but I believe I saw they'll be at Drake. The Drake meet has some fantastic open fields. The mile will have Lagat, Lassiter, Abdi (world racewalk record ? :-) ), Berryhill and others. Suzy will run the 3K. Good men's shot. Both vaults will be excellent. Let's hope the weather holds. Any other predictions? sideshow
Re: Re: t-and-f: Mueller in Zagreb Last Year?
There was some confusion as to what her winning mark was, but it was confirmed as 4.47. Dan Lilot Statistician TFN
t-and-f: Looking for Dong
No, that's not some terrible spam header, I'm looking for results from the Dong-A Marathon held today in Seoul. I found the official website but my Korean is a bit rusty. I know Josephat Kiprono was running and was supposedly in good shape. Thanks in advance. sideshow
t-and-f: Fwd: Ignorance in Indiana
I am forwarding this article for a friend, who lives in Northwest Indiana. This article appeared in my local paper serving Northwest Indiana yesterday Dan can you post it to the TF list for me? I can't post from my work email. I think we should all email this guy and let him know how we feel about this issue. Thanks, http://www.thetimesonline.com/index.pl/article?id=14595280 Time to toss the pole vault By John Doherty / Times Sports Correspondent Posted on Monday, March 18, 2002 The following story ran in this space five years ago this month. Tragedy struck at Bloom Twp. High School earlier this month. On March 7, as a result of a pole vaulting accident, William Moreno suffered a fatal head injury. In the immediate aftermath of the incident, the instinctive, knee-jerk reaction would have been to call for elimination of the activity. A check with the Consumer Product Safety Commission in Washington, D.C., last week revealed one other fatality in the last three years associated with pole vaulting. In April of 1994, another 17-year-old died from a blunt-force head injury. CPSC official Ken Giles also reported on 30 to 40 other non-fatal injuries that required emergency room treatment over the same period. One is left wondering how complete the CPSC's database is, though. They had no information, beyond what I told them, on Moreno's death. Consequently, I contacted the National Athletic Trainers' Association. That organization is in the midst of a three-year, comprehensive investigation of injury rates among high school athletes. Unfortunately, according to survey director Dr. John Powell, track and field is not among the sports being studied. So where to turn for an expert opinion on the general safety -- or lack thereof -- of pole vaulting? Sometimes, there is no place like home. Lee Bollhorst is an IHSAA-certified track and field official. He had served as head coach for girls track and field at Griffith High School for 15 years until 1990. Early in our conversation, he made his feelings plain. They need to get rid of the damn thing, he said. For starters, according to Bollhorst, there are few talented local participants. More importantly, most schools do not have a coach who knows how to teach an interested athlete how to do it properly. (Although this, said Bollhorst, was not the case at Bloom. Moreno was a good athlete with good coaching at good facilities -- but disaster still struck.) This year will be my 48th in track and field, he said, and I wouldn't know how to do it. It's not that pole vaulting is wrong, in Bollhorst's view, as much as it is not right for this part of the country. In California, it's very popular and the coaches are well trained. Judging by the IHSAA's recent conduct, however, it does not share the veteran coach's opinion. Still, the IHSAA and/or the National Federation could at least mandate some kind of headgear, such as a cyclist's helmet. I'd agree with that, said Bollhorst. It wouldn't impede their arms or legs. It wouldn't impede a better safety record, either. True, there has been only one other death, besides Moreno's, since 1994. But compared on a per capita basis with other supposedly more dangerous sports, this is unacceptable. Just ask the grieving families. * News item: On February 23, 2002, Penn State pole vaulter Kevin Dare died during the Big 10 indoor track championships in Minneapolis. He fell during an attempt, missing the padded pit, and struck his head on the ground instead. Dare's death was -- at least -- the fifth in the sport, nationwide, in the last 10 years. He was not wearing a helmet. John Doherty is the head athletic trainer at Munster High School. He can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (219) 922-8188. ---BeginMessage--- This article appeared in my local paper serving Northwest Indiana yesterday . Dan can you post it to the TF list for me? I can't post from my work email. I think we should all email this guy and let him know how we feel about this issue. Thanks, -Ray http://www.thetimesonline.com/index.pl/article?id=14595280 Raymond C. Cook Casino Operations Controller Majestic Star Casino One Buffington Harbor Drive Gary, Indiana 46406-3000 (219) 977-7737 - office (219) 977-7745 - fax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web site: www.majesticstar.com This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. ---End Message---
Re: t-and-f: WPV
In a message dated Sat, 9 Mar 2002 1:13:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mike Takaha [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also getting collegiate records were Perdita Felicien in the 60H (7.90) and Candace Scott in the WT (23.05 / 75-7.5). It appears from the results that in the weight Jamine Moton set the CR at 22.50m (73-10) in flight 1 of the prelims then Scott reclaimed the record in flight 2, first at 22.78 (74-9) and then her winning 23.05. They broke Scott's record of 22.32 (73-2.75), In the hurdles, Felicien broke Danielle Carruthers record of 7.92, a mark Carruthers equaled in finishing second. Mike Takaha Not so fast! There were problems with both those collegiate records!!! First of all, on Scott's two longest throws, the weight bag had lengthened too much for record purposes. I believe this implement will be illegal next year. Thank god. As for the 60H, I urge everyone to watch the ESPN2 coverage today. Many felt Felicien was moving before the gun. Whether she got away with a flyer, I dunno, but whether TFN will recognize it as a CR remains to be seen. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: Regional flaw
In a message dated Sun, 10 Mar 2002 9:01:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Last time I looked, Arkansas is west of the Mississippi. A list member from Louisiana can tell us which side of the river LSU is on. In addition to which, I believe the third region might be on both sides of the Mississippi which I did not mention. Ed Koch LSU's campus borders the East bank of the Mississippi River. It's a short jog from the track to the levee. sideshow
t-and-f: Musings on the eve of the NCAA Indoor
First of all, this weekend's NCAA Indoor meet here in Fayette-nam is going to be a humdinger. Both team races should come down to the wire. Unfortunately, host Arkansas will be without middle-distance star Dirk Heinze (as they were at the SEC two weeks ago and last year's outdoor conference meet) who has been ruled ineligible once again. I've been having an interesting debate with friends/fans here about Alabama's decision to possibly run Kimani in the Mile, DMR and 3K. That means he'll have to run the mile heats and DMR Friday night and then the mile final and 3K the next day. I guess they figure he can score more than the 20 points he would if he got his 3rd straight 3/5 double. It'll be interesting to see if the gamble pays off. And while I'm pumped up to eat at Waffle House and watch a great meet, I have to make a few complaints, but only because I think the meet can be EVEN BETTER. The 4x4's, which should be smoking with amazing quartets from LSU (m) and South Carolina (w) will be run in THREE sections this year, as opposed to the 2 sections run previously. Granted, the fastest qualified teams will be in the final section, but why are coaches afraid of competing head-to-head? Get six teams on the track at the same time and it's an exciting 8 laps of banked mondo madness. Just 3 or 4 teams in a section and it loses something. More section madness, as 200 and 400 qualifying will be by TIME ONLY, i.e., winning one of the four sections doesn't even guarantee you a spot in the final! Why don't they just let each athlete run alone in lane 5 so it can be perfectly fair for everyone? Of course, who would want to watch this? Okay, enough venting. I'll be in hog heaven (ugh!) for two days and no amount of NCAA idiocy will ruin it for me. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: IC4A/ECAC results
In a message dated Sat, 2 Mar 2002 9:58:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ron Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://ic4a.ecac.org/site/Championships/Indoor_Track_and_Field/Results Does anyone know which timing company worked the IC4A/ECAC meet? The results page is maddening, requiring one to click on every single event instead of having a composite results page. Additionally, they're missing some field events. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: More learned from Winter Olys
In a message dated Sat, 16 Feb 2002 5:31:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmm, US does not understand metric??? Watch ski jumping (which is SOOO COOOL) and you see nothing but metric measurements. NO CONVERSIONS found here whatsoever!! When shown in relation to what others are jumping, meters make sense, as its just an arbitrary number anyway. Now if we can get them to use that Football yellow line in the telecasts, we're set, and no one will care what the numbers on the screen are. IMHO, MJR The only reason most people watched ski jumping is because it's THE OLYMPICS. The Games never have a problem finding an audience, even if it's metric only. Even our own Olympics Trials were a sell-out and their wasn't a yard race in sight. But try announcing all marks in meters at a collegiate dual (if there are any left) and you'll hear a collective groan from both spectators. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: lines in the snow
In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 4:38:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There was some suggestion that the NFL's 1st-down-line technology had great potential for track, and that's oh-so-true. Not only for TV, but also for any big meet (think WC or OG) where there's a big jumbotron (big jumbotron? George Carlin would love that one). You can show leader, records, performer's best of the day, etc., etc. I lobbied hard for the Edmonton people to get this up and running as part of the presentation package, but it didn't happen. The real reason would appear to be economics. You may recall that one of the major networks removed it from football telecasts this year, at least for a little while. As I recall, they said they were saving $85,000 per game by so doing. Yikes! Seems incredibly high, but that's the figure I recall reading. Maybe it was all games all weekend? Still too big a nut for track dream of cracking i suspect. gh In my hotel in Edmonton we received the German broadcast feed and in some of the morning's throws qualifying rounds they used the first-down line technology to indicate the auto-qualifier mark in the throwing sector. sideshow
t-and-f: Cannon Classic w5K lap short?
I don't mean to doubt the times the women ran in the 5000 at this weekend's Cannon Classic (hosted by Butler at the NIHS), but the times seem awfully fast for some women who haven't run very fast before. I was just wondering if any listmembers were at the meet and can confirm that they ran 25 laps (i.e. you were watching a teammate or were splitting someone). Finals - Results - Saturday 02/09/02 PLACE ATHLETE NAME SCHOOL TIME HT = = == == 1 Gomez, Zoila Adams State College 16:20.41 P 1 2 Feenstra, Jenn Georgia State University 16:29.53 P 1 3 Barth, Susan Marquette University 16:34.03 P 1 4 Lawrence, Hannah Unattached 16:34.29 P 1 5 Krzyminski, Jamie Michigan State Univ. 16:35.99 P 1 6 Ford, Jennifer Univ. of North Florida 16:41.12 P 1 7 Evjen, Rachel Northwestern Univ. 16:43.94 P 1 8 Bouren, Melissa Unattached 16:45.74 P 1 9 Reusser, Liz University of Wisconsin 16:46.50 P 1 10 Lilienthal, Michelle University of Wisconsin 16:51.72 a 1 11 Mackie, Rebekah Western State College 16:59.37 * 1 Now Feenstra qualified for NCAA cross and Barth ran 10 seconds slower on a flat 200m track at Central Collegiates, so the times aren't outrageous, and I know the track is super fast, but it's sometimes necessary to check such things. Thanks for any help you can give Please respond to me off-list. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
t-and-f: USA Cross Country
It's been raining all week in Portland and there are some small flood warnings for the Portland area. Last year was a drought for the northeast and the course was still somewhat muddy. This weekend it's gonna be a quagmire! Should be fun. The men's 4K race is stacked. No Kennedy or Goucher in the 12K, but Meb, Abdi and Culpepper will be there. Ritzenhein is running the long race. Think he has a chance at cracking the top 6? sideshow
t-and-f: Should Masback have been chosen as USATF CEO?
Of course. Would you really have preferred someone leading our sport who knew very little about it? Ken Stone uses his rejection by TFN as reasoning why Craig shouldn't have been chosen. Great logic (not). Track Field is not basketball or football or any of those major sports. It doesn't just deal with the very top, professional athletes. It is the sport's governing body for athletes from cradle to grave. Whether this should be the best way to manage a sport, that is another question, but for someone to lead the sport and not know it well would be ridiculous. The sport needs not only someone who can reach out to the marketing/corporate community, but to those in the sport as well. If USATF wanted to do something in conjunction with the Penn Relays, for example, wouldn't you want someone who'd been to (and maybe even competed in) the event to negotiate with them? Craig has done a good job IMHO in refocusing USATF more toward the elite level, as it should. He has also done a smart thing in turning over all drug testing matters to the USADA. Has he done a perfect job? Of course not, but that's the nature of the beast. Our sport is facing tough times and it's a tough job. Let's continue to be criticial, but also give him our support. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: USATF Release - adidas Boston Indoor Games
In a message dated Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:05:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael Contopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jason Long ran for JMU and I believe graduated in 2001. I know he ran 1:47 high in the prelims of IC4As in the 800 last year, but I don't know what his mile time is. Perhaps someone can offer more details. Mike From: John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF Release - adidas Boston Indoor Games Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:12:50 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contact:Jill M. Geer Director of Communications (317) 261-0500 x360 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Friday, January 25, 2002 Adidas Joe Concannon Mens Mile: Kevin Sullivan (CAN), Ibrahim Aden, Daniel Zegeye (ETH), Brian Berryhill, Andy Graffan (GBR), Bernard Lagat (KEN), Martin Keino (KEN), Jason Pyrah, Jason Long, Dan Wilson, Nathan Brennan (CAN), Bryce Knight I have some knowledge about everyone in the race, including the rabbit, with the exception of Jason Long. Who is he and what has he run? Thanks in advance. JL As a soph at James Madison in '99, Long ran 1:47.06 and 3:41.70, placing 6th in the latter at the outdoor NCAA. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: NCAA Indoor Ticket Info
In a message dated Thu, 17 Jan 2002 9:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am considering going to the NCAA Indoor in Fayetteville. Just searching various University of Arkansas and NCAA sites I have been unable to get any information about ticket prices etc. Anyone know prices or have a number (preferably an 800 number) that I could call. I realize this is not a professional event but in the theme of several other posts if this were any other sport considered important by anyone there would be plenty of information readily available 7 weeks before the event. David Donley 1-800-982-HOGS is the ticket info number I found on the www.hogwired.com site. If you can go to this meet, do it. It's a fantastic venue. sideshow
t-and-f: Northern Iowa to host 2003 NCAA Cross Country
This might be old news to some, but I hadn't heard that Northern Iowa would be hosting the 2003 NCAA Cross Country Meet (and the 2003 Pre-NCAA extravaganza as well, I suppose!). I had heard that Lehigh was gonna get it, but oh well. UNI's course is in nearby Waterloo and has hosted a district meet or two in the past. Indiana State is hosting the meet this year. Here's a press release from unipanthers.com UNI TO HOST THE 2003 NCAA CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS October 10, 2001 Cedar Falls The NCAA has announced that the University of Northern Iowa will host the 2003 NCAA Division I Mens and Womens Cross Country Championships, University officials announced today. The championships will be held on November 24, 2003, at the Irv Warren Golf Course in Waterloo, Iowa. We are thrilled to be able to bring the cross country national championships to the Cedar Valley, commented UNI Athletic Director Rick Hartzel. This event will make a positive economic impact on our communities, it will showcase UNI, and it will be an exciting and unique event. Much of the credit for getting this event goes to Head Coach Chris Bucknam for hosting such an outstanding regional meet last year. My goal was to host a national championship event and I am extremely pleased to be hosting nationals in 2003, said Bucknam This is a great university and program and I am ecstatic to be a part of this prestigious event. It is estimated that nearly 5,000 individuals will come to the Cedar Valley for the championship, including athletes, coaches, support staff, officials, and spectators. The economic impact for an event of this magnitude is over $400,000. We are excited about having the opportunity to showcase our community to the sports enthusiasts, and we feel it will have a huge economic impact on the Cedar Valley, said Director of the Cedar Falls Tourism and Visitor Bureau Kim Burger. This is one more reason why we are proud to have the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls. The last time UNI hosted a NCAA Championship event was in 1997 when the Division I Wrestling Championship came to the UNI-Dome. That tournament broke the attendance record by nearly 10,000 when 90,064 people attended the three day event.
t-and-f: NCAA Cross Country on TV AGAIN!
For those, like me, who missed the initial broadcast of the NCAA Cross Country Championships on Fox Sports on Monday, it will be rebroadcast on several affiliates this weekend. Check out the following URL for times/affiliates: http://www.ncaachampionships.com/local/tv.html sideshow
t-and-f: He even makes news when he DOESN'T run!
January 16, 2002 Webb Will Not Compete at Red Simmons Invitational ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- University of Michigan freshman Alan Webb (Reston, Va./South Lakes HS), a member of the Wolverine men's track and field team and the American high school record holder in the mile (3:53.43), will not compete in the Red Simmons Invitational on Saturday (Jan. 19) at the U-M Indoor Track Building. Alan has a problem with his Achilles and we don't want to push anything, said head coach Ron Warhurst. We expect Alan to run in a couple of weeks, but in the meantime, there are still a lot of great runners competing this weekend, such as Nathan Brannen, Kevin Sullivan and Tim Broe. Freshman Nathan Brannen (Cambridge, Ontario/Preston HS) is expected to compete in his first race as a Wolverine on Saturday when he participates in the 3,000-meter run. Brannen, who joined Webb to become the first recruiting class in the history of college track and field to feature two sub-four-minute milers, owns a mark of 3:59.85 in the mile and 1:46.60 in the 800 meters. Brannen's competition in the 3,000 will feature Michigan volunteer assistant coach Kevin Sullivan (1993-98) and Tim Broe. Sullivan, who placed fifth in the 1,500 meters at the 2000 Olympics while representing Canada, owns four Canadian records, including the indoor mile (3:55.33) and the outdoor 2,000-meter run (5:04.35). Broe, who was an All-American in college at Alabama, is ranked No. 1 by USA Track Field in the 3,000-meter run as well as the steeplechase. Broe is currently training with the U-M track and field team. Field events at the Red Simmons Invitational will begin at 9:30 a.m. Saturday, with the running events starting at noon. The men's 3,000 meters is slated for 2:40 p.m. Advance tickets for the Red Simmons Invitational and the Harold Silverston Invitational (Feb. 16) are available through the U-M Athletic Ticket Office. Tickets are general admission and are $4 each for adults and $2 each for children and senior citizens. Groups of 15 or more are eligible for group rates at half the regular ticket price.
Re: t-and-f: Acuff irked by high-jump rule changes
In a message dated Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:24:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 1/15/02 10:18:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm 100% with Acuff. How does the change make more TV-friendly what isn't on TV already (i.e., the high jump, except for maybe 3-4 jumps max per telecast)? TV-friendly was Acuff's take on the new format, but it's not the reason that Millrose organizers are trying something new. In past years, the women's high jump at Millrose has often been ignored (for want of a better word) by fans who were paying attention to a race on the track or were more interested in the men's or women's pole vault. (And this is not a knock on Garry Hill, who does his best as the Millrose field event announcer to draw attention to each event) The plan for this year's meet is to highlight the women's high jump while the ends of the track are being dismantled for the sprints and hurdles, which will close out the program. As much as possible, the house lights will be dimmed, with a spotlight put on each athlete as she gets ready to jump. Acuff may be right in her assertion that the format is not conducive to jumping high, but at least the Millrose folks are trying something new (Supposedly, Acuff's comments notwithstanding, with the approval of the athletes who are competing--Acuff, Waller, Aldrich). Walt Murphy P.S. The following line appeard in the AP story...Acuff thinks the changes for the women's event are a mistake, calling the new format ridiculous. For what it's worth, she never used the word ridiculous during her phone hookup at yesterday's NY Track Writers lunch (Which is where the story originated) I'm glad Amy Acuff cares enough about her event and her sport to speak out about something she feels is not right, but I'm surprised that such a media savvy athlete would criticize an event in the weeks leading up to it. Not necessarily the best way to build a relationship with the organizers. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Rethinking hard-easy
I think eliminating the hard-easy approach and concentrating on consistent aerobic running would only work well in high school. Because high schoolers race so much, they don't need to do much in the way of faster training. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Bashar Ibrahim (UTEP)
The former UTEP distance coach, now the women's cross coach at Alabama, told me that Ibrahim did have U.S. citizenship, but I'm not sure when he got it. TFN still lists him as a foreign collegian, however, since he competed for Kuwait in the '99 Worlds. Dan Lilot Statistician TFN
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
In a message dated Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:20:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rather than have a 5 x 2k multi-loop setup for NCAA's that (in my opinion) turns it into a track race on grass, I don't see why they couldn't have sensors set up at 4k/6k/8k or 3k/6k/9k or something, on a normal course. If the MHSAA can afford it, then the NCAA should be able to. Or should want to. Why do you feel a short loop turns a cross race into a track race on grass? There's still hills, mud, turns, etc. The only difference is a spectator can see virtually the entire race. It makes it more of a fan-friendly event, which surely athletes will appreciate and approve of. sideshow
t-and-f: Track Field News Final 2001 U.S. Women's Lists
Okay, the 2002 indoor season is already underway, but it's never too late to check out the 2001 Final U.S. women's 50-deep lists, available on the Track Field News website: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists/lists2001/usoutw.html Please e-mail any corrections/additions to me, BUT NOT AT THIS ADDRESS. Please send them to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enjoy. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
Brian- I understand your points, but they are based on the experience for the competitors, when what we should be most concerned about is the experience for the spectators. We have no problems concerning the participatory side of the sport in this country, but when it comes to presentation and marketability, we're WAY behind. sideshow
t-and-f: Famous People Who Have Run Track?
Britney Spears once ran after a bus. Tom Cruise has jumped for joy on occasion. Richard Nixon once threw a fit. sideshow
t-and-f: European Cross Country Champs
I don't believe the Euro XC Champs held this past weekend in Thun, Switzerland have been mentioned yet. Ukrainian Sergey Lebed won, adding to his '98 crown and moving up one place from last year. He stopped Paulo Guerra's streak at 2 (Guerra has won it 4 times). Photos on the race website (http://www.eaa-athletics.ch/) show competitors wearing ankle bracelets which are apparently some kind of timing chip. The great thing is that because the course was 1500m, they have complete results, including team scores after every lap, on the site. I don't know if they were able to announce these team scores each lap at the race, but it would definitely make cross viewing more enjoyable. I think we need to have more courses like this in the U.S. The Vancouver, Wa course for nationals is a good 2000m loop, but team scoring at this race is almost an afterthought. We need this kind of technology at the NCAA's. sideshow
t-and-f: What makes a cross country specialist?
With his victory at lats weekend's Euro XC Champs, Ukraine's Sergey Lebed strengthened his reputation as an outstanding cross country runner. Paulo Guerra, another specialist, was only 10th this year. This got me to thinking. What makes someone a cross country specialist? There's obviously more to it than that these guys simply like cross and are in good shape during the harrier season. Lebed is a good, but not great track runner, with PR's of 7:43 and 13:14. He was the first non-African in last year's Olympic 5000. But his accomplishments over hill and dale are much more worthwhile, including his silver in this past winter's World Cross in Oostende (highest finish by a non-African born athlete in 12 years). Is it that runners such as Lebed and Guerra don't have great running economy and so are not as good on the track? We usually say that good cross country runners are strong, but what does this mean? I'm curious to hear what others think. Meanwhile, Lebed will be running agains Mourhit (who isn't in great shape, if a recent road race result is any indication) this Sunday in the great Brussels cross race (another 1500m loop course!). sideshow
t-and-f: Sean Penn and Hunter S. Thompson at the Honolulu Marathon
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/thompson/index.html Okay, it's only tangentially related to running, but as a big fan of the Doctor, I figured I'd pass along this link to Hunter S. Thompson's weekly column. For those of you who haven't read it, The Curse of Lono, HST's account of the 1980 Honolulu Marathon, liberally illustrated by Ralph Steadman, is one of the all-time greats. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Footlocker South - why so fast?
In a message dated Tue, 27 Nov 2001 9:49:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 11/27/01 2:12:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From one year to the next who can remember exactly how to mark the course? Tom's right. That's why XC course records should be taken w/ a grain of salt. Even at place like Van Cortlandt Park, where the trails themselves are pretty much impervious to alteration, who knows exactly where the start is? Jim Gerweck Running Times Yes, cross times should be taken with a grain of salt, but not with an entire salt lick. For courses that have been used for decades, all efforts to preserve the exact course should be made. When you have a course, such as Crystal Springs in Northern California, that has been used for 3 decades and has not changed one bit, one can compare times from the good ol' days with those of today. Sure, weather, rain, use, etc. can affect times, but if distance is constant, all-time lists can be meaningful and cause quite a bit of excitement. If you ever go to a meet at Crystal, just look at the crowd that lingers around the all-time lists. It gives kids and fans something to talk about. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Footlocker South - why so fast?
In a message dated Tue, 27 Nov 2001 8:58:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's not just at the Foot Locker South course where course record lists have been rewritten. This year the times at Mt. SAC have been ridiculous. For years, anyone breaking 15 was a true stud. Now you have guys who are good, but not great dipping under the 15-minute barrier. I thought I would go to a directly knowledgeable person- in this case my own son- who ran in the Mt.SAC HS Invational both last year and this year. He said the course this year was identical to last year- they didn't change anything. He ran about a minute and a half faster this year, but then that's probably normal progression going from a freshman runner to a sophomore- and it corollates to his improvement over the previous year on other courses in the area as well, not just Mt. SAC. As for the observation that there's a surge of runners going sub-15, after Ryan Hall broke the long-standing course record last year, maybe the Hall / Webb breakthroughs served to 'poke a hole in the dike', releasing the flood. It's easier for coaches to motivate if there's somebody his runners have seen with their own eyes, not 30-year-old black-and-white Jim Ryun pictures. It wouldn't be the first time. RT I too think the course this year is the same as last year. But the course as it is now is not as it has always been. They're crushing times set back in the halcyon days of SoCal high school distance running, when breaking 9 minutes for 2 miles was nothing. Perhaps Doug Speck might have some thoughts? sideshow
t-and-f: Michael Granville
In a message dated Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:15:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael Contopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Granville set the National Freshman Class Record at the National Scholastic Meet in 1993 with a 1:51.03. He very well could have been 14 in that championship. Although I find it hard to believe someone could possibly go 2 seconds faster than Michael did his freshman year, its not unthinkable. Speaking of Granville, does anyone know what he is up to these days? Is he still running? What about Obea Moore? Obea had a stint at Liffe College... is he still there? Any plans for 2004? In CT we had a sophomore run 1:51 (George Williams)... went to high school with Jerome Young. He gave up running for football his junior year, I believe, as he moved to Cali to be with his father. I wonder what that talent is doing today. Here in the states we have guys running almost as fast at almost as young an age... maybe he's 16... maybe he is on something. Or maybe he is natural and 14... who knows... does it really matter? Mike No idea about Obea's whereabouts, but Michael Granville is training with the Farm Team. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Footlocker South - why so fast?
In a message dated Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:41:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Personally I think the South should run on a more challenging course. Tom The McAlpine course is a great course except for being too narrow after the long opening straightaway. It's fast because it's on hardpacked dirt (when it's not muddy from rain). It's not as flat as some suggest; it's sure hillier than the golf course that Footlocker Finals and many college races are run on. Also, despite many responses, no one has really dealt with the improbability I pointed out - the 8 fastest times ever, other than Webb's, all from this one race. Yes it was a very talented field, no question, but it's hard to believe that all eight are faster than every other great southern runner for the past 20 years. Geoff It's not just at the Foot Locker South course where course record lists have been rewritten. This year the times at Mt. SAC have been ridiculous. For years, anyone breaking 15 was a true stud. Now you have guys who are good, but not great dipping under the 15-minute barrier. Sure, Amber Trotter is damn fast, but she's not 30 seconds faster than Anita Siraki, who broke Julia Stamps's CR. The course has been changed somehow, and it's wreaking havoc on the all-time lists. Bummer. sideshow
t-and-f: Re: A prize mistake
In a message dated Mon, 26 Nov 2001 8:44:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Eamonn Condon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Electronic Telegraph Tuesday 27 November 2001 Tom Knight UP TO 35 athletes may not receive the prize money they have won this year because they had not undergone the requisite number of drug tests. According to the rules of the International Association of Athletics Federations, athletes can collect their winnings only if they had two out of competition drug tests in the previous 12 months. Problems occur when athletes, their managers or federations fail to provide the IAAF with the necessary information on their whereabouts. At the World Championships in Edmonton, Germany feared they might have to compensate Ingo Schultz, the 26-year-old who came from nowhere to win the silver medal and $30,000 (£21,000) in the 400 metres. Schultz had not been considered good enough to be included in Germany's drug-testing programme for elite athletes. However, athletes who are not included in a target group need only to have been tested once. Arne Ljundqvist, the head of the IAAF's anti-doping commission, said: We have something like 460 athletes who should be paid prize money from the major championships, but between 20 and 35 will probably not because they have not given us the necessary information. Eamonn Condon www.RunnersGoal.com Does anyone else find the withholding of prize money in these instances a tad ridiculous? If someone bursts onto the scene and wins money, who would've known they were supposed to have been given out-of-competition drug tests? Paul Kosgei is still trying to get the money he won from World Cross years back, but the IAAF is denying him his money because he didn't have the requisite number of tests that year. But that was his first year of world class running! And since then he has passed every test he's taken. Doesn't he, and these other athletes, deserve their money? And isn't it a public relations nightmare for the IAAF to withhold money from some of their bright up-and-coming stars? How is a manager to inform the IAAF of an athlete's whereabouts at all times when they live in the Rift Valley and move between their house, a training camp, an uncle's house, etc.? I'm all for drug testing, especially the out-of-competition sort, but it can be taken too far. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Re: A prize mistake
In a message dated Tue, 27 Nov 2001 4:23:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Randall Northam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 27/11/01 17:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone else find the withholding of prize money in these instances a tad ridiculous? If someone bursts onto the scene and wins money, who would've known they were supposed to have been given out-of-competition drug tests? I cannot believe that this can happen these days. When I was editor of Athletics Today ten years ago Wendy Sly, silver medallist in the LA Olympics, was our publishing manager. She hadn't competed for two years due to injury but a tester still turned up at the office out of the blue to ask her to pee in a jar. To get to the world championships or grand prix you have to be at a certain standard and those of that standard should expect regular out of competition tests. Two a year is not too many. Randall Northam No, two a year is not too many, but the reason Sly was tested was because she had ALREADY run some fast times, even if they were years before, while she was still competiting. Who would've known to give her a test before she hit the big time? sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Re:
In a message dated Sat, 24 Nov 2001 2:45:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, Keenan Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if one were to break it down into Foot Locker Regions it would be easy to see that the Midwest dominates cross country. Suck it California. 1. J. Torres - Illinois/CU 2. Ritzenhein - Michigan/CU 3. Watson - Minnesota/ND 4. Shay - Michigan/ND 5. Sage - Illinois/Stanford No time to suck it, my friend. We're too busy outside running in shorts and t-shirt in the HILLS. Have a nice, long winter. sideshow
t-and-f: mile bests by state
In a message dated Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:51:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ed Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2) is some sexism veing employed here. Why not a women''s list as well--a slot easier to compile, I would think, with a much shorter stretch of years to research. Who's stopping you from doing it? :-) I think a women's list would be much less interesting, since they've stopped running the mile outdoors with any frequency over the last dozen or more years. Many of the sub-4 miles on this list were run during the '70's and earlier, but since then, during the time when women have had more opportunities, they just don't run the mile that much, unfortunately. Once you start coming up with some 4:50's for some states, interest would surely wane. sideshow
t-and-f: Motshwarateu slain in robbery
In a message dated Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:50:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Post, Marty [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The following appeared in the latest Race Results Weekly by David Monti and information was provided by Rial Hauman Matthews Motshwarateu, one of the country's top distance runners of the seventies and eighties, became one of the best-known victims of the new culture of violence marring life in South Africa when he died in a Johannesburg hospital on November 2 after he had been shot four times in Soweto the previous Saturday. Motshwarateu was robbed of his wallet, which contained only R30 (about $3). He died on his 43rd birthday. Motshwarateu, who earned the nickname Loop en Val (Afrikaans for Run and Fall) because of his unusual forward-leaning running style, possessed one of the most fearsome kicks seen on SA tracks in the last thirty years. He became the first South African to run 1 meters in under 28 minutes when he clocked 27:48.2 in 1979. He won the inaugural South African half-marathon title in 1981 and at the time of his death was still the owner of the fastest ever 10 km road time -- 27:54 in the Crescent City Classic in 1988. Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com As a sophomore at UTEP, Motshwarateu won the 1981 NCAA Cross Country title in Wichita. The Miners scored an unbelievable 17 points to win the team title. He also placed 2nd in '80 (behind teammate Nyambui) and 61st in '82 (after knee surgery). On the track, he placed 3rd in the 1981 NCAA 10K (as a part of a UTEP 1-2-3 sweep) and 8th in 5K the same year. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
t-and-f: TFN 2001 U.S. Men's 50-deep lists
If you're like me, you're thinking cross country right now, but that's no reason why you can't still check out Track Field News' final U.S. men's 50-deep lists for this year: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists/lists2001/usoutm.html If there are any corrections, additions, misspellings, complaints, laments or musings, please send them to me, BUT NOT AT THIS ADDRESS. PLEASE SEND TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Women's lists will hopefully be up in a week or so. Thanks. Enjoy. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
t-and-f: NYC Marathon
Not much talk on the lists about the NYC Marathon. Here are some of my predictions (sorry if they seem a bit harsh, but U.S. marathoning deserves it). First of all, kudos to the organizers for making the race the U.S. championship and for assembling an excellent American field to augment the always good furriner field. 1. 1 American will break 2:15 2. 4 Americans will break 2:20 3. Deena will beat Teddy (this includes a DNF) 4. 1987 runner-up and now manager Gianni Demadonna will exclaim, Thees is a crazee race. 5. Shem Kororia, 3rd the last 2 years, will not, unfortunately, improve on his placing. 6. NBC will spend more time showing flags and Yankee hats than race coverage. 7. Grote will consume 2 boxes of Cocoa Krispies after his race. sideshow
t-and-f: NCAA Cross regionals
Who cares if Webb wins the district race? Michigan is going to qualify for Nationals, so if he's running all out for the victory in his first 10K he's not doing himelf any favors. Okay, a point here and there can make a big difference in a team battle, but I think many teams take the district too seriously instead of treating it like a qualifying round. 2 10K races within 9 days is not easy, even if you are a superstar. The problem is that each individual can't just look around and count his place and ease up, since he doesn't necessarily know where his teammates are. But a smart coach will be calculating the score and will let his athletes know if they can back off a bit. An interesting aspect of Arkansas's team this year is their lack of depth. Sure, they'll be able to qualify easily out of the weak South Central district, but they won't be able to rest as many of their top 5 as they used to. Heinze was their 5th man at SEC, but I doubt he'll be in their top 5 over 10K. Of course, last year's team was lacking depth and we all know what they did at Ames. Stanford has the luxury of keeping many (all?) of their top 5 out of districts and still qualifying. Do they serve beer in Greenville on Sundays? sideshow
Re: t-and-f: X-C Districts and Nationals - was name change
In a message dated Tue, 30 Oct 2001 3:32:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ed and Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And you are certainly right ... a 3:53/Footlocker Champ would normally be heralded as the next Bob Kennedy. But, maybe the problem is that everyone is already counting on him to be better than Steve Scott, Bob Kennedy and Adam Goucher ... we've been anticipating it for months. Was Bob Kennedy the last American frosh to win the Big 10 X/C (did he even win it - I know he won NCAA's)? - Ed Parrot Yes, BK won Big 10 cross as a frosh. sideshow
t-and-f: name change
In a message dated Mon, 29 Oct 2001 9:53:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jim McLatchie wrote: Maybe if the name USATF was changed to USA Athletics (or something else), then the race walkers, roadies, ultra's and x-country athletes would feel that they belong to an organization that supports all disciplines. The management of the sport in the US, definitely leans towards TF. The rest!!! Ah well!!! We had a pretty good name once, The Athletics Congress, until the powers-that-be sold out to Nike for a mess of pottage, as it were. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. The problem is that virtually nobody in this country equates athletics with track field. The switch to USA Track Field was a good one. sideshow
t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. Just not at championship meets. I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross race where the loop was only 1500m. Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class marathoner. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
In a message dated Tue, 23 Oct 2001 6:31:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm a big fan of the old adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the IAAF was wrong to go to two distances, and I think it would be terrible for the NCAA to follow suit. If you want to get more kids involved in the sport, then add Open or JV races...don't fool with the championship format. If we go to long/short, would we ever see a miler like Alan Webb go against a Dathan Ritzenhein in a Championship race? And what about rankings? Would we have polls to determine the leading long and short teams? I don't think so, unless you force runners to stay with either the long or short distance throughout the season. And, most importantly, it would mean twice as many races for me to report(Just kidding on this one). Walt Murphy X-Country X-Press I agree 100% with Walt. Cross is (was) great because everyone runs one race. Who will remember the World Cross 4K champion years from now? Almost nobody. More bad ideas from the NCAA. sideshow
t-and-f: Busy day at Vanny...
For those of you in the NYC area, consider skipping work/school Friday to catch three, yes THREE separate conference meets at venerable Van Cortland Park. The Big East, Heps and Metro Atlantic champs will all be taking place. Not sure of the times, but it wouldn't take but a bit of web surfing to find out if you're interested. So, call in sick, bring money for a few slices and hop on the 1 train... sideshow
Re: t-and-f: NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational
Pre-Nats??? This looks like Nationals minus Arkansas and Wisconsin!!! A quick count reveals that only 7 men's and 4 women's teams ranked in the top 25 in the latest polls won't be there. Ranked teams that will be there: Men: 1, 2, 5, 8-11, 13-22, 24 Women: 1-6, 8,9, 11-13, 15-22, 24, 25 How much longer before Griak becomes the meet that qualifies you for the Pre-NCAA? :-) I think the qualifying system is much more fair than it was before the field was expanded, but at what cost? Many meets now suffer because schools prefer going to Pre-NCAA or Griak. For example: Murray Keating, Wolverine Interregional, Big Cross (Pasco, Wa), Central Collegiates, Paul Short, etc. And what about poor schools in the southeast district? They have to run at Furman for Districts as well. So probably half their races are on the same course. So is the Pre-NCAA idea a good one? I still think so, but would like to hear what others think. sideshow In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 5:21:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Info from Furman on this Saturday's NCAA Pre-Meet. Following is some crucial information on the NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational, slated for Saturday, Oct. 13, at the Furman Cross Country Course (on the Furman Golf Course). Schedule of Events 8:30 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Girls 5K 9:10 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Boys 5K 9:40 Furman Invitational Varsity Girls 5K 10:15 Furman Invitational Varsity Boys 5K 10:45 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Purple 6K 11:20 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Silver 6K 11:55 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Black 8K 12:35 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Gold 8K 1:15 Furman Invitational Men's 8K 2:00 Furman Invitational Women's 6K Teams that have been accepted into the NCAA Pre-Meet races will be announced Thursday at noon on the Furman website. The address is www.furmanpaladins.com. Please click on the NCAA Championships logo, scroll down to the results section, and click on the Furman Invitational/NCAA Pre-Meet link. There you will find links to the race fields for the pre-meet races. There will be two balanced women's pre-meet races (purple silver) and two balanced men's pre-meet races (black gold). All other teams, and all overflow individuals will be put into the Furman Invitational races. Each pre-meet race will have 37 teams and NO individuals. COMPLETE Collegiate Fields (Men): Stanford, Washington, Georgia Tech, Alabama, Virginia, Washington State, Columbia, Ball State, Texas, ETSU, UNC Asheville, Oakland (Mich.), Butler, Northern Iowa, Iowa, Youngstown State, Brown, Wake Forest, Marquette, Colorado State, Marshall, Air Force, Brevard, Central Michigan, Dartmouth, Wofford, Cornell, Texas Tech, Oregon, North Carolina, Kentucky, North Greenville, Samford, Michigan State, LaSalle, Guelph, Missouri, Utah, Birmingham Southern, N.C. State, Furman, Villanova, Bucknell, Indiana, Life, Bethune Cookman, Colorado, Arizona State, BYU, Indiana, Montreat, Elon, Princeton, College of Charleston, Belmont, Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Western Kentucky, Radford, Queens, Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Cincinnati, Nofolk State, Eastern Michigan, New Mexico, Georgia, Florida, Weber State, Notre Dame, Winthrop, Davidson, Mercer, Lenoir Rhyne, Miami (Ohio), Clemson, Tennessee, Syracuse, Kent State, Toledo, Georgetown, Florida State, St. Francis (Pa), UNC Charlotte, Emory, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Savannah State, Richmond, Eastern Illinois, Loyola (Chicago), Tennessee Tech, Ohio State, Creighton, The Citadel, UC-Santa Barbara, UCLA, Minnesota, South Florida, Charleston Southern, Baylor, Virginia Tech COMPLETE Collegiate Field (Women): Missouri, Birmingham Southern, N.C. State, Mississippi State, Furman, BYU, Villanova, Bucknell, IUPUI, Life, Tennessee, Bethune-Cookman, Colorado, Arizona State, College of Charleston, Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Minnesota, Western Kentucky, Queens, Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Elon, Princeton, New Mexico, Georgia, Weber State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Winthrop, Mercer, Pittsburg, Boston College, Lenoir-Rhyne, Yale, Stanford, Miami (Ohio), Columbia, Washington, Indiana, Georgia Tech, South Alabama, Virginia, Texas, Washington State, Columbia, Ball State, ETSU, Northwestern, UNC Asheville, Oakland (Mich.), Butler, Northern Iowa, Youngstown State, Brown, Wake Forest, Marquette, Colorado State, Cornell, Marshall, Air Force, Dartmouth, Brevard, Campbell, Wofford, Texas Tech, North Carolina, Kentucky, North Greenville, Oregon, Samford, Michigan State, LaSalle, Guelph, Syracuse, Kent State, Toledo, Georgetown, Florida State, St. Francis (Pa.), Boston Univ., Georgia State, Norfolk State, UNC Charlotte, Clemson, Radford, Emory, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Richmond, Eastern Ill., Loyola (Chicago), West Virginia, Portland, Tennessee Tech,
Re: t-and-f: Takahashi trivia EMBARASSING!!
In a message dated Thu, 4 Oct 2001 4:02:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ed and Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is crazy. There is no need for a 2:15 marathoner to run for 3:30 in training. It would be a huge waste of time. The problem is that people are doing 18-24 milers relatively easy (and even close to 6:00 pace is relatively easy if you are a 2:15 marathoner) and NOT doing the 13-20 mile hard runs at marathon pace, which will total 18-25 miles with a few miles of buildup and cooldown. - Ed Parrot Tell the Japanese that runs longer than the marathon distance are a waste of time. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Takahashi trivia EMBARASSING!!
Rubio raises some interesting questions. I think one of the big problems with U.S. marathoning is that they do not train like marathoners. They train like 5K/10K runners who put in a few 20-milers and then try to do the marathon. Training for the marathon isn't just about mileage. It's also about long runs. Jack Daniels' long tempo runs have come into vogue, and these are important, but I think we've gotten away from just running long. Don't worry about the pace. It doesn't have to be 6-minute pace (3:45/Km). Run 6:50 (4:10/Km), but do it for 3:00-4:00. I believe U.S. marathoners have gotten too cute in their training. Yes, they need to do some workouts like 6 x 1 Mile, and 10-mile runs at marathon pace, but it should not be at the expense of mileage and 3:00 runs in the hills. Another problem is obviously the lack of desire by many 28:50 10,000 runners to run the marathon. This baffles me, since a 2:15 marathon these days will get you a lot more notoriety/money than a 28:50. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Re: Goodwill Men's 5k (fwd)
In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:02:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: from my TV notes BATTLE OF THE AGENTS The seven African runners are represented by two of the sports major agents/managersa purse of $55,000 is up for grabs in each event. KIM McDONALD Sammy KipketerKEN 12:54.07 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 12:56.50 John KibowenKEN 12:59.97 Paul Bitok KEN 13:00.10 JOS HERMENS Richard Limo12:56.72 KEN Hailu Mekkonen 12:58.57 ETH Million Wolde 12:59.39 ETH Walt Murphy Speaking of agents, on last night's Goodwill telecast, Lewis Johnson mentioned that he had spoken to Noah Ngeny's agent, Jos Hermens. Noah has always been with Kim McDonald, as far as I know. Did Noah recently switch to Jos, or did Lewis make a simple mistake (easy to do, with so many managers out there)? sideshow
t-and-f: Goodwill wind readings
Has anyone seen any Goodwill Games results with ANY wind readings? The official site is very good, except for these missing measurements. Many thanks. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
RE: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results
Too bad there were no American entrants. They could've hung on until a lap remained, at least. Heck, Brandon Leslie might've even been able to stay with them until the bell. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: NCAA-I men's XC poll
In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 2:53:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ryan Grote [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dull...boring...The Grote Poll is done, be patient and check letsrun.com and hopefully those wiseguy Ivy Leaguers will post it. For what its worth, Arkansas #3 is a total slap in the face. I don't care who they lost and who they return. If Oliver Miller is in their top 5, I don't care, they have won 3 straight. They'll find a way to compete for the win. At least start them at #1 until they get knocked off. They have some decent guys back in Lincoln and Travis. Look at their roster, some dude from Eldoret, Kenyan named SILVERUS KIMELI, he might not suck. Grote adiRP/MMRD Good observation, Grote. Silverus Kimeli is a transfer from Cloud CC, where he won a nifty 1500/3000 indoor double and also placed 3rd in the 5K. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: believe it or not
Obviously some, if not many, of the African Juniors of the past 15 years have not been juniors. Moses Kiptanui was definitely not 19 back in '91. There was NO WAY that Addis Abebe was 19 back in '89. Dude had a receding hairline (Okay, so did the Mastalir's in high school, but that's different). But I would not hesititate to believe that Ismael Kirui was 18 in '93 when he won the World Champs 5K for the first time. That guy really looked like a true 18-year-old. Sure, that has him running 28:30 or so at age 16, but if Chapa could run that in high school, Kirui could do it at 16. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 2:31:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Altitude physiology is not voodoo. I didn't make these rules. The great Kung-Fu master did, so who am I to say Altitude Schmaltitude... chapman Apparently some people didn't listen to the great Kung-Fu master (yes this is a repost): Kenyan Champs-Nairobi 1700m alt: 1 Charles Kamathi 27:47.33 2 John Korir27:49.34 3 Paul Kosgei 27:51.87 Worlds: 1 Charles Kamathi 27:53.25 (6 secs slower at lower alt) 7 Paul Kosgei 27:57.56 (6 secs slower at lower alt) 8 John Korir 27:58.06 (9 secs slower at lower alt) *Also note the Kenyan Champs were a month+ earlier so they should have been faster given the lower alt and month+ of training. So, it's my conclusion, given the above, that running at higher altitude must be easier than running at lower altitude. The numbers just don't lie..;) Both Paul Kosgei and John Korir had been suffering from slight injuries that hindered their Edmonton preparations. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Boit Kipketer in Zurich
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 5:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, carole fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- Buck Jones wrote: Boit Kipketer - hard to win a race you're not entered in. What happened to this guy? Three GL wins in a row, 8:01 - then not at the WC and abyssmal in Zurich (although I wish I could be so abyssmal :-) I was in Zurich, around the 1500m start line and could see Boit Kipketer fall on a barrier in front of us in the first half of the race (can't remember which lap exactly). He immediately tried to join the leading group but he probably put too much energy in the move and faded in the end of the race. Carole Fuchs Yes, his manager told me that Boit Kipketer hurt his toe in that fall and is doubtful for Brussels (haven't looked at start lists).
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 6:12:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael Contopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alan... do you really want to continue with this? I really hate to correct you, but Richard Limo ran 12:56.72 in Zurich, and if you believe he is not yet 21, than you must also think President Bush is a bright man. There is no way you can say, based on his 13:00.77 WC performance AND his best time this year (a pr), that the altitude effected him. You don't run within 4 seconds of your pr in a championship race if you are hindered by altitude. Once again, don't disrespect my knowledge (ANY athlete's pr and my studies of atmospheric pressure) and I won't disrespect yours. Its as simple as that. Mike Don't forget, Zürich is at 1345 feet altitude. :-) sideshow
