Re: t-and-f: Reuters version of USATF-Rogge story
I doubt that USOC would cut off funds to USATF because they covered up positive tests. After all, the two previous Medical Directors of USOC have said that USOC covered up positive tests. Better check USATF's accounts to see if they got a bonus from USOC. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: chip timing at European Cross-Country Chamionships
I'm not a chip expert, but I recently worked with a champion chip crew at a large marathon. The race timing was started by the gun and individuals were recorded as they crossed the finish mat. The official results were gun times. A few complained that Boston accepts chip times and they should have been credited with faster times. The chip only carries the runners ID. It does not need to be started when the runner crosses the start line. That still leaves the problem of separating close finishes. If more powerful mats were used, the chip could probably be attached to the torso, but then some folks would get worried about electromagnetic radiation (transmission line syndrome). Ed Prytherch Mike wrote - . However, somethings still have to be worked out for cross country races if it is to be used as the official timing/scoring system. One being all the transponders have to start with the gun (not a mat that has to be crossed at the start like in a road race
Re: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs)
Regarding chip costs: My friend Danny White owns a race management business. We were at the Kiawah Island Marathon this past weekend and he used the champion chip system there for the first time. I don't know how much he paid for the equipment, but it was enough to put him into significant debt. But a race director only has to rent the service. Danny charges $750 + $1 per chip for a road race setup with two mats at the finish line - a primary mat + a backup. I imagine that his charges are typical for the business. So to figure the cost for a cross country race, multiply the number of splits needed by $350 and add $1 per runner. You may need special programming to do the team scores, but there are probably lots of folks that could do that. Ed Prytherch - Original Message - From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs) This has been discussed in my state (Michigan) where ChampionChip Timing was founded (by a guy I know who grew up about 35 minutes from me). I think the problem is that the sensor set-up that senses the chip and takes the split (and therefore the runner's positions en route) is very expensive. I think the setup costs like $30,000 at each checkpoint. The ChampionChip system is used at the Michigan HS State XC Finals, which are now held at Michigan International Speedway, and hosts all FOUR Divisions, both Boys and Girls. 8 races in one day. There is a sensor at the 1 mile, 2 and 3, and FINISH of course. We don't have any electronic scoreboard running during the races though. They are able to have this many sensors because of the economy of scale of all the races being run on one day, on the same course. I think they also do this as somewhat of a demo for their road racing customers. The MIS also has deep pockets to pay for something like chip timing, thanks to parking and entrance fees for the many thousands of parents, teammates and friends who watch the races.
Re: t-and-f: U.S. Women's 1500/Mile Bests by State...
South Carolina Perry Fields4:43.26 indoor mile, 2001 Nike Fast Times FL, running for Clemson. She attended Spring Valley HS and Ridge View HS in Columbia SC. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: Athletes fighting their own battle on drugs
But Inger Miller is not a distance runner. Ed - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 4:23 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Athletes fighting their own battle on drugs I've mentioned from time to time that research of a few years back (Running Research News from around '95) suggested that legal levels of caffeine (the equivalent of up to 3 cups of coffee) could be quite beneficial to mid-distance and distance performances, while illegal levels (5+ cups) are actually detrimental to performance. I don't know if this has been looked into further or if it is accepted as fact, but it certainly raises questions as to the purpose of banning high levels of caffeine. Last I checked, food makes you faster, but too much of it before a race slows you down... Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that it is aside from the main thrust of this article, and I realize that my question may be naive, but why would it matter that an athlete tests positive for caffiene? I can't see that consuming a dozen cups of coffee or a dozen cans of cola per day provides any advantage in muscle-building, stamina, or anything else relevant to athletic performance. How does caffiene get into the list of proscribed substances? = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Athletes fighting their own battle on drugs
Stimulants are an aid to sprinters. They have been taking them for decades. Caffeine is a stimulant. Inger got caught with a lot in her urine. Join the dots. Ed.
Re: t-and-f: DELTA AIRLINES STINK
Take the plane! My son flew to England on Monday and my brother arrived from England on Thursday. Most rational people would do the same thing. Ed. - Original Message - From: John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: t-and-f: DELTA AIRLINES STINK I was planning on taking my team, Don Bosco Prep of Ramesy NJ, for an exciting cross country weekend at Disney in early October. We had looked forward to this trip for many months. Then the recent events of September 11th and all our plans were changed. The school did not feel that it was right to aks these boys to step on a plane, which I totally agree. Many of the parents were also concerned about the possible trip so we called it off. I contacted the hotel(Amerisuites) where we had signed a contract, they understood, canceled the rooms with no penalty, and wished us the best. Disney is returning our entry fee, this is unheard of-nor was it asked for. But Delta airlines has refused to refund our tickets. HOW LOW CAN YO GO? They have offered that we can use the tickets for 1 year, but have to pay fees of $100.00 per ticket. That is 1/2 the value. DELTA STICKS!! Many of us were effected by the events of September 11th and have lost family and friends. Now Delta looks to steal our money! Below you will see their response to us regarding a refund request. Can any of you help? Thank you, John Nepolitan Don Bosco Prep Ramsey, NJ Dear Mr. Nepolitan, Thank you for contacting Delta Air Lines. Thank you for your additional comments. In light of the recent events, we can appreciate your decision not to travel. While we would like to offer special consideration to your request, we are unable to honor the many similar requests that we receive from others in equally deserving situations. We established and adhere to a consistent refund policy that ensures Delta is equitable to everyone who travels with us. Consequently, we respectfully decline your request for a refund. We are hopeful that as time goes on your confidence in the nations airline industry will be renewed. Since your ticket is valid for one year from the issue date, the residual value of your ticket, after applicable service fees and penalties are applied, may be used toward future travel. We would welcome a future opportunity to be of service. We appreciate your interest in Delta Air Lines. Sincerely, Concetta Anzulewicz Online Customer Care
Re: t-and-f: What do Tiger Woods,
Throw up stories. Bob Kempainen threw up at about the 22 mile mark of the men's marathon trials in Charlotte in '96. It was live on TV. He immediately picked up the pace and ran away from his pursuers. I coached an 8th grade boy some years ago who threw up every time he pr'd. He improved from 5:00+ to 4:35 that season. He went on to captain the Furman University team. An 8th grade girl threw up on my feet after she had run 5:08 for second place in the HS state meet. She went on to run 4:43 indoors last year for Clemson. I may get excited the next time one of my kids throws up after a race. Ed Prytherch
t-and-f: Greene Bislet
From the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/athletics/newsid_1434000/1434664.stm Greene asks for too much Maurice Greene (c) will miss the Bislet Games World and Olympic 100 metres champion Maurice Greene has priced himself out of the Bislett Games Golden League meeting on Friday. The meeting organiser, Svein Arne Hansen, is blaming other promoters for previously meeting the sprinter's pay demands. It's the fault of the Paris organisers, they are idiots for paying him $100,000 Greene streaked to 100m victory in the first two Golden League meetings of the season, in Rome and in Paris last week. But the American will not be running in the intimate Bislett stadium on Friday. Hansen said on Wednesday that Greene's management team had first agreed he would run for an appearance fee of $75,000 (£53,200) but then demanded more. It is the fault of the Paris organisers, they are idiots for paying him $100,000 (£71,000), said a furious Hansen. We had agreed to pay him $75,000 but then he wanted more. Hansen said the organisers of the Paris meeting, which attracted a 58,000 crowd to the Stade de France, were endangering the carefully-negotiated appearance fees needed to ensure the sport's big names appear. I do not think they should do that if they want to work with us again, he said.
Re: t-and-f: Bannister
Phil is correct. The 4:53 that I gave as his freshman mile was run in October '46, at the start of his freshman year. That may have been his first mile race. The 4:24.6 was run in June 1947. Ed. - Original Message - From: Philip J Wyckoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:22 PM Subject: t-and-f: Bannister My reading of Bannister's career shows him running 4.24.6 in 1947, and he came to Oxford in Fall of 1946. which I think makes him a Freshman. He never ran on a track or wore spikes prior to Oxford. Phil Wyckoff GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
t-and-f: NY mini marathon
From SportServer.com: NEW YORK (June 9, 2001 10:49 AM EDT) - World cross-country champion Paula Radcliffe of Britain trimmed 13 seconds off the course record as she won the Mini Marathon on Saturday. Radcliffe was timed in 30 minutes, 47 seconds for the 6.2-mile course through Central Park, smashing the record of 31:00 set by Norway's Grete Waitz in 1980. The world best is 30:39, by Scotland's Liz McColgin, at Orlando, Fla., in 1989. In only her second 10-kilometer race on the roads, Radcliffe went right to the front and steadily pulled away from the field of more than 4,500. Second-place finisher Restituta Joseph of Tanzania was more than a minute back.
Re: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school
Bannister ran 4:53 as a freshman at Oxford. He probably didn't have an opportunity to run track in high school. Ed - Original Message - From: Steve Grathwohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school At 07:36 AM 6/8/01 -0700, Tim Willis wrote: List members: A few days ago, there was talk about the best improvements since high school in the mile. One name that was not mentioned was Dick Buerkle. I went on a run with him this morning and he mentioned that his high school best was 4:28, his senior yerar. His Senior year was his first year of competitive running. I believe his official best ever ended up being 3:54 indoors. Just curious to know if the person that was compiling that list had Dick Buerkle anywhere on it? Tim Willis (770) 939-7669 I don't have The Four-Minute Mile with me, but if Roger Bannister broke 5 minutes in high school (before he got to Oxford) then it wasn't by much. Steve -- Steve Grathwohl * [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values, but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it. -- Bertrand Russell
Re: RE: t-and-f: Alan Webb
In a message dated 5/29/01 07:17:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has ANY other sub-4 miler in history dropped their outdoor PR by 8 seconds? Prior to running his WR 3:48.95, Coe's mile pr was 3:57.7, but there was almost a 2 year gap between them. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: Re: Fast twitch/slow twitch question?
There was a report of an experiment in New Studies in Athletics (IAAF) a few years ago which appears to contradict this. The experimenters switched the soleus and gastrocnemius muscles in a dog. One of the muscles (I can't remember which) has a higher proportion of fast twitch fibers. At first the dog had difficulty walking, but after some time it learned to walk with the switched muscles. Muscle biopsies were performed after the dog had fully adapted. The muscle which had previously been predominantly slow twitch had become predominantly fast twitch and vice versa. Some sprint coaches (Loren Seagrave, Charlie Francis) are strongly opposed to young sprinters doing much endurance work because they think that there may be a conversion of fast twitch to slow twitch fibers. But Monique Henderson ran cross country! Ed Prytherch - Original Message - From: Jon Entine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: t-and-f-digest [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Track and Field List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:33 PM Subject: t-and-f: Re: Fast twitch/slow twitch question? Paul: The coach and the parents of these girls do not know what they are talking about. Here's a few relevant paragraphs from Taboo. The Mystery and Myths of Muscles ³Is the composition of muscle tissue of blacks different from that of whites?² asks a reader in a letter to Muscle Fitness magazine. ³To me, the muscle definition of black bodybuilders ... looks better than that of their white counterparts.² It certainly seems that something is going on. But is it a projection of white insecurities or something more substantive? For years it was axiomatic that performance differences were linked to muscle composition. It was believed that muscles have two types of fiberswhite, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is slightly more complicated. There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks, who generally have more of both types of fast-twitch fibers. So what is the significance of these differences? Geneticist and exercise physiologist Claude Bouchard at Laval University in Quebec City, known as a guru on muscles and metabolism, has run numerous experiments comparing two populations, FrenchCanadian and West African students. Using long needles inserted into the thighs of test subjects, Bouchard¹s team extracted tiny sections of fibers, which look to the naked eye like pieces of raw meat. They were chemically treated to reveal metabolic differences, put on a glass slide, and slipped under a high-power microscope, where they appeared as a collage of tiny red and white crocodile scales. The West African subjects, by a ratio of approximately two to one, had more of the larger fast-twitch fibers. The researchers concluded that the force generating capacity of type-II muscle fibers at high velocity, the speed and tempo of movements, and the capacity of an individual to adapt to exercise training are all genetically influenced. Although physical activity can improve fitness, with a few caveats, it cannot alter a person¹s biological endowment by converting fast-twitch fibers to slow-twitch ones, or vice versa (although people do gradually and permanently lose fast-twitch muscles as a result of aging). It¹s estimated that 40 percent is due to environmental influences such as exercise, whereas 45 percent is associated with genetic factors (the remaining 15 percent is due to sampling error). At the far end of the performance bell curve in sprinting, where small differences can be crucial, genetics clearly circumscribes possibility. Note: Scientists have converted type I slow-twitch fibers to type II fibers with the use of long-term electrically induced contractions. And training can convert the less metabolically efficient fibers into more efficient onesfor instance, when trained athletes run so fast that they go into severe oxygen debt, forcing the muscles to use oxygen more efficiently. On 5/5/01 2:03 PM, t-and-f-digest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Nisius [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Fast twitch/slow twitch question? The following debate came up at a high school track meet last night and I am looking for some expert opinions on the topic. I coach cross country in the fall at one school and track in the spring at another school (very small). While watching some of the girls running the 4 x 400 relay (from the team that I coach cross country with, but not track), I saw some new faces that were running about 61 and 63 second splits. I made reference that we should try and recruit these girls for cross country in the fall to try and help
Re: t-and-f: inaccurate consistency (hand timing)
The popular SPRINT EIGHT timer can be started by a transducer that is attached to the gun. How would you classify performances that are timed with this system, hand or FAT ? Ed Prytherch - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: inaccurate consistency (hand timing) --- bobhersh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The auto timer has virtually zero reaction time at either end. It starts simultaneously with the firing of the gun and records the exact instant the runner reaches the finish line. But the rules state that an athlete cannot start simultaneously with the firing of the gun, so why should the timing system record that duration? That's why I say a hand time seems more indicative of what was actually run, assuming the hand timing is done well. (I realize I've repeated myself a bit, but maybe that's what it takes to get extra credit.) :-) If nothing else, you get points for trying! Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Why we question Chinese marks
Ed: Wang certainly was not a one year wonder. Before 1993, she was runner up to Paula Radcliffe in the world junior cross country. Later, she was the World champion in Stuttgart, the Asian champion in Hiroshima and the Olympic champion in Atlanta. I don't have the stats, but I think that she had the fastest time in the world for 10,000 for 3 years. in 1996, Paula Radcliffe was quoted in the Atlanta Constitution as saying that Wang was the greatest ever female runner. Her gold at 5,000 and silver at 10,000 was a great accomplishment. Only one other athlete made the finals at both distances and he didn't medal. Ed Prytherch We;ll never really know, becauseas opposed to Ben, who made several well-publicized comeback attempts, we never heard from most of the Chinese again. One or two of them left China and had some subsequent world-class perofrmances, and a few of them popped up briefly, but for the most part they disappeared. And we also have no real idea how good they were before the breakthrough. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: What's next?
Budd wasn't DQ'd because she didn't trip Slaney. Ed THE PRINCE wrote: I can't say I know a whole lot about distance running, but I can say this, Zola Budd didn't get disqualified for tripping Mary Decker. Bumping and shoving is part of the distance runners race. I have been told by distance runners that there are certain places where you can touch/ shove a runner to throw them off balance. Talk about cheating. LOL None-the-less, sprinters have bumped in races, and yes it does affect the runner and the race, but again it's the nature of the beast.
Re: t-and-f: Proposed changes in IAAF rules
There won't bemany more DQ's because there will be very few false starts. Ed Paul Banta Wrote: My guess is that few, if any, meet directors of invitational meets will be in favor of going to a one false start rule in races from 400 down. They put a lot of time, money and promotions into getting the best sprinters and hurdlers to their events and wouldn't want to see them disqualified easily. My guess is that it is very rare in invitational races for top athletes to false start twice. I don't think we have ever had a disqualification for two false starts in the ten years of the adidas Oregon Track Classic. And I don't think track fans would like it either when they come to a meet only to see a premier sprinter or hurdler disqualified for one false start.
Re: t-and-f: Hurdle heights
Although the discussion started out with IAAF rules, I'd like to make some observations about hurdle height and spacing for young athletes. Most 12-14 year old boys cannot hurdle over 39" barriers. But once a boy can deal with the hurdle height, 3 stepping is no problem because the hurdles are relatively close together. The kids who can run the 110's in 9th grade are tall kids. When they mature, they will probably be above the optimum height for sprint hurdling. The 2 fastest hurdlers of the past decade are about 5'10" tall. The situation is different with girls. I have a couple of 7th graders who can hurdle 33" barriers, but they can't even 4 step. My good girl hurdlers only 3 step well when they are in 11th or 12th grade. For developing young hurdlers, I'd like to see lower hurdles for the boys and closer spacing for the girls. Maybe in states with a junior high track program, young kids can have different hurdle specifications. But here in South Carolina, middle school kids run with high school teams and once size fits all. Ed Prytherch.
Re: t-and-f: NCAA Results
Try http://cavern.uark.edu/depts/wathinfo/championship/ Ed Prytherch - Original Message - From: "Mark J. Spitzer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Track Field List" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 8:18 AM Subject: t-and-f: NCAA Results Does anyone know where I can get up to the minute results of the NCAA Championships. Particularly the women's shot? Thanks, Mark Spitzer
t-and-f: converted marks
Couldsomeone please explain converted marks in the NCAA mile lists? Specifically: Jill Snyder, Rebecca Mitchell and Perry Fields ran automatic qualifying times at the Nike Fast Times meet in Gainesville on Wednesday. The times listed on the NCAA site are converted and are 0.6 sec faster than the times listedby the University of Florida. Thanks, Ed.
Re: t-and-f: water vs coke
Anne Marie Lauck drank coke in the 2000 marathon trials and had a major stomach problem during the race. Ed. As I recall, Frank Shorter drank defizzed Coke during his gold medal run in '72. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Results, results
Answer to second question: http://www.ukathletics.com/news/trk/trk/2001/02/15/982253779608.html From: Ed Grant To: track net Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: t-and-f: Results, results Netters: Two queries: 1) Does anyone have a web address for the Heptagonal results? 2) Is there anywhere the gull SEC results can be found, not the stingy 1-2-3 only on the host site? Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Sacto Trials seating or standing
gh wrote: ps--haven't most European stadia gotten rid of standing? If so, anybody know why? You can certainly get more bodies in that way. And crush them against fences I guess. I grew up watching soccer and rugby in England. I never sat down at a game. I never wanted to and probably couldn't afford to. I assumed that the folks who sat were wealthy and lacking in spirit. I believe that the move to all seating stadiums was for safety. There were a number of incidents where fans were crushed to death when barriers collapsed or when too many were in too much of a hurry to leave at the end of the game. Also, seated fans are less likely to fight or throw missiles at players, officials or other fans. At most games, that stuff didn't happen, but it generated a lot of bad publicity when it did. I'll be with Rubio's rowdies at Eugene. Ed Prytherch.
Re: Re: t-and-f: Short/Long course cross country
My experience with HS kids is that everyone wants fast times, so flat, short courses are preferred. I directed the state championship meet for South Carolina independent schools this season. The course was a full 5k, it was hilly and the surface was uneven and had some loose sand. The main complaint that I received was that the times were too slow. Our state public schools championship races are on a course which is short and has firm, even footing. It produces times which are about a minute too fast. Needless to say, everyone loves it. I think that road racing has a lot to do with the obsession with times. Ed Prytherch. Alan Tobin wrote: I often find it funny that a lot of XC races are run over flat, clipped grass courses. Even worse is the multi-loop courses such as Worlds. I think to qualify as an XC course you have to jump, scramble, or wade through something. I can think of only 3 XC races in my life that were "true" XC races. Once in high school with 3 inches of snow on the ground (any course with at least 1 inch of snow on the ground qualifies as a "true" XC course), another time in high school during a downpour with little foot deep pools to run across (again, any race in which it downpours or there is a lot of "sloshing" going on qualifies), and once in college at I believe it was Virginia Tech...the "jump over this little downed tree" obstacle...it's so cute..;)
Re: t-and-f: Imperialist
Rugby made the change from yards to meters without dumbfounding the players or the fans. Ed. - Original Message - From: "Wayne T. Armbrust" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Imperialist Changing the dimensions of a football field, or any of the measurements used in football would be just as absurd as not using metric measurements in track and field. All the rules of football were originally written using yards; it should stay that way. By the same token, the international rules of track have been all in metric since the founding of the IAAF in 1912 and therefore metric measurements should be the only ones use in that sport. I have heard, however, that in the NFL Europe the fields are 100 meters long and teams have to go 10 meters for a first down. Does anyone know if this is this true? I think European American football fans should learn yards for football, just as American track fans should have to learn meters for track. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't wait to be watching a National Football League telecast some Sunday afternoon and here Pat Summerall say, "It's first down and 9.14 meters to go for the Giants." I doubt anybody on this list or any of our children will live long enough to hear that. Somehow this is tied into the future of metrics in this country. Or the lack of that future. Of course, maybe the NFL will change and it will be first down and 10 meters to go. And players will play for free. Just as likely. Steve -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: USATF 8K Saturday
Carolina 8K Start list updated at 9:00 p.m. 2/9/2001 Janice Addison Susannah Beck Anne Boyd-Stewart Jackie Brooks Katie Courtwright Rebecca Crowder Jodie D'Ariano Colleen DeReuck Dian Ford Missy Foy Judy Johnson Claudia Kasen Kim Kauls Betsy Kempter Lynn Kepper-Hudson Mary Knisley Michelle LaFleur Gina Latham Robin Lawhorn Catherine Lempesis Amanda Lynch Vicki Mitchell Emily Nay Mimi O'Grady Kim Pawelek Annette Peters Jill Tranter Judy Walls Kristin White Late scratches - Shelly Steely, Laura Rhoades, Beth Green, Kim Fitchen. Ed.
t-and-f: video analysis of technique
I'm looking for adviceon downloading from a camcorder to a pc and doing frame by frame analysis. Are there any good software/hardware packages? Thanks Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: USATF Development Projects Site??
It is at http://www.sjs.org/sports/TF/VideoListUSATF.htm Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Todd Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track Listserve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: t-and-f: USATF Development Projects Site?? Netters- Does Lyle Knudson have a web site which lists the tapes that are available both instructional and trials and games?? Thanks- Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo
Kurt: The big difference between hurdling and racewalking is that you can hurdle as fast as you possibly can and you are still a hurdler. But if you racewalk as fast as you can, you turn into a runner. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:28 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Grote wrote: Right. Because that would be about running...moving as fast as possible over a given distance. The spikes and blocks would help reach that goal. I wouldn't know too much, as I've never run out of blocks, and all of my PR's from 3000m-1m are in road racing flats. However, the idea in any running event is to move as fast as possible. Running is the fastest way for humans to move, since we cannot fly. If we could, different story. I don't run track any more, I'm too slow. However, the point of going in circles is also to move the fastest, that is the track is the most even, best surface, etc. In road races, the same concept applies, cover the distance as fast as possible, at least that is my idea. If track is purely about covering the distance the fastest then you better get rid of the hurdles and the steeple. All those barriers in the way prevent the athletes from getting to the finish line as fast as possible. And we wouldn't want that, would we? But wait a minute, maybe we could revise our thinking and consider the hurdles a fundamentally DIFFERENT EVENT from the sprints and not worry about direct comparisons. And come to think of it, if we really wanted an intellectual challenge, we could do that with the walks too; we could consider them as events unto themselves rather than slow versions of the running races. Nah...better not - that would be thinking too far outside the box. It's easier just to mock these other events - the same way Joe Sixpack mocks the entire sport of track and field. It's always cool to mock what you have no appreciation for. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: USATF Women's 8k National Championship
Columbia SC will host the USATF Women's 8k National Championship on February 10. The race is open to all women who are US citizens and have run 19:00/5k or 32:00/8k or 40:00/10k since Jan 1, 2000. The prize fund is $14,900 and pays 15 deep. Travel and lodging is available to women who have recently run 16:00/5k or 27:00/8k or 33:30/10k. Lodging is available to women who have run 17:30/29:00/36:00. There is no entry fee for the race. Interested athletes should contact me at this email address - [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at (803) 788-8941. Athletes who want plane tickets should respond as soon as possible. Ed Prytherch.
Re: t-and-f: Dick Ault
Dick Ault is listed as 4th in the 400 hurdles in the '48 Olympics. His time was 52.4. The race was won by Roy Cochran of the USA in 51.1 Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: T-AND-F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: t-and-f: Dick Ault Netters, My insurance man competed in track for Westminster College in Fulton, MO (where Winston Churchill gave his "Iron Curtain" speech). His coach there was Dick Ault, who he believes was fourth in the 400 hurdles in either the '48 or '52 Olympics. Can anyone verify this? -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck
Re: t-and-f: How good was a 10.07 100m in 1972.
Kurt, There are some who think that it started in the US. In his autobiography "Big Shot", published in 1981, British shot putter Geoff Capes wrote "We cannot blame the Eastern Europeans for the prevalence of drug taking. It started in the United States. No doubt about that." and "Every thrower can remember the 1960's. There was a surge of brilliant performances by Americans. In one year the record went up 2 1/2 feet. In five years it improved by more than 7 feet. And it was not a soft record to start with. Parry O'Brien, a great thrower had set it. Drugs had to be a major factor in the improvement." He wrote that his own knowledge of drug use came from a US book "Getting Stronger" written by Bill Pearl. Ed Prytherch. Mats asked us to remember: Remeber that the USSR and the GDR imported their doping science Hardly. The US is certainly not innocent in furthering doping science, but a significant majority of the synthetic steroid compounds used in doping were invented by Germans. Germany has long been a hotbed of the science of organic chemistry, and steroid chemistry during the 40s, 50s, and 60s, when most of the steroid dope was developed, is no exception. Scanning the names of the scientists and the institutions on the patents and primary publications of the banned steroids reveals a decidedly teutonic flavor. Like I said Americans are by no means innocent, but to suggest that all the doping knowledge flowed from the US to Europe is simply inaccurate. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: AOY
If race walking is mainstream tf, how come the stadium is virtually empty whenever there it is going on at the nationals? The fact is that most tf fans that I know think it is boring, and quite a few think it is a farce. There were a lot more spectators at the track in Columbia SC for a 48 hour ultra than there were for a couple of State Championship race walks (which I helped officiate). If this list is representative of US tf fans, then Randall probably does speak for the silent majority. Ed Prytherch.
Re: Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO
I think that the strength of JO must vary a lot through different regions. Last year, two of my junior girls who finished 6th and 8th in the South Carolina Independent Schools state meet, took second and third in the SC JO. In our state, running JO doesn't make much sense for competitive high school athletes. Ed Prytherch. -Original Message- From: R.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Isham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Re: t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals QUESTIO On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:44:51 -0600, you wrote: Mike, In regards to your statements about the Footlocker versus Junior Olympics: My question is why bother having a JO cross country program when you have this program which is so much more successful? And appropriate. My son (age 14) competed in the SoCal Association JO meet 3 weeks ago. During the course walk-through, the meet director told the kids in the older divisions that most of the "fastest runners" in the area wouldn't be there because they would be competing in the California State CIF first-round meet the same day. At least that was his experience in the past. So he warned them that they're probably used to 'following the leaders' in high school meets and that wouldn't be the case, they would have to be up in the lead and close to it to keep the pace from dragging. He also said he may combine races in the top two divisions because of lack of entrants (again, from his prior experience). As it turned out, there were plenty of entrants to have separate races, combining wasn't required, and as for the quality of competition, my son ran a time that wasn't too far off his season best as a HS frosh (converting 3M down to 2.5M), but still got his clock cleaned. The competition was pretty darn good! He could have ran a PR and still might not have qualified to get to Regional JO. There's no way I'd say JO is unsuccessful- this year at least, the quality of competition and the depth of the fields were very good. The times in the upper two age groups correlated very closely to what we've seen this year in the best of California High School jayvee races, such as at the Mt. SAC Invitational. Once you move up to JO Regionals and Nationals, of course the quality is even better. Sure, Footlocker syphons off the best of the junior and senior elite runners, but the JO champions aren't exactly chopped liver. RT
Re: t-and-f: Fwd: IAAF Athletes of the Year announced
I thought that the race walking chappie was supposed to win. Ed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 26, 2000 6:29 PM Subject: t-and-f: Fwd: IAAF Athletes of the Year announced
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
Darrell Do you think that Marion Jones was also wrong to skip the Olympics when she was a teenager? Ed Prytherch -Original Message- ... Mark Lewis-Francis should have been in Sydney, period! He opted out of Sydney so he could go to Lesser competition, dominate, and "clown" with his friends. How come I have heard no mention of his antics? Were any of teh Brits embarassed by his bravado as he crossed the line in every one of his races? I doubt it. ,,, DGS The G.O.A.T.
t-and-f: ALL TIME FAVOTITE ARTICLES??
I agree that Kenny Moore and Don Kardong have written some great stuff. But don't overlook the outstanding series that Joan Nesbit wrote for Do it Sports in '95/96. They were collectively called 'The Black Spike". The most notorious one was "There is no I in Team", a commentary on the US cross country teams at The Worlds in South Africa. The title was inspired by the behaviour of one of her team mates. I wish that Joan would start writing again. Ed Prytherch.
t-and-f: Re: wHO ELSE WON THREE IN A ROW?
Professor: We both missed one more 3 time champion - John Flanagan. Does that mean that neither of us is a "genuine track and filed connoisseur"? Ed. -Original Message- From: Prof. Uri Goldbourt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ed prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; t-and-f list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Rohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:31 AM Subject: wHO ELSE WON THREE IN A ROW? Two comments: First , VICTOR SANYEYEV of course won three in a row (1968, 1972, 1976) and then placed second in 1980! (It is also a useful reminder to some who have recently quite surprisingly suggested that "Jonathan Edwards is the greatest jumper ever". Joszef Schmidt and Da-Silva, each a double Olympic champion and a contributor of dozens of centimeters to the WRs of their tines, come to mind as well). Second, Korzeniowsky is not "obscure" and will not be forgotten in a short time, as long as one considers genuine track and filed connoisseurs. UG + - Original Message - From: ed prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: t-and-f list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Rohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:41 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: AOY Voting starts now Mike: Jan might not be the first to defend a Javelin title, but how many people have won 3 in a row in any tf event? I can only think of Al Oerter and Carl Lewis, and they are legends. Your guy will be forgotten by most tf fans in a short time. Jan will be a legend, like Oerter. Who do you want as AOY? A legend or a guy that hardly anyone has heard of? I think I know the answer, but it's the wrong one. Track has a big enough pr problem without naming an obscure athlete as AOY. Ed. -Original Message- From: Michael Rohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eckmann, Drew [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ed prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, October 07, 2000 11:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: AOY Voting starts now Netters Acknowledging Drew's points that unfortunately many don't consider the walks a track event. I do believe it is to bad because the achievement was really quite remarkable. One point to remember no one else double medalist in individual events. And who has done anything really outstanding other then say Jan? Well in myheart he is AOY and Jane Saville should be the sports woman of the year because she of all is the one athlete I would point out to my children and say this is how you act when something bad happens. But Ed Prytherch wrote: AOY should go to Jan Zelezny, the greatest javelin thrower of all time. Third gold in a row, plus a silver in '88. He HAD to break the Olympic record to win because Steve Backley had broken it in the previous round. Sure Ed he did. But Robert ALSO had to break the Olympic Record because two others did. And Jan isn't the first to defend the javelin nor is he the first to defend in a throws event. Robert was the first to defend the 50k ever. Jan is great and I was amazed by his throw. But wether you like the walks or not most on this list really have no idea what this guy did or how well he did it. Good Training, Michael Rohl
Re: t-and-f: AOY Voting starts now
AOY should go to Jan Zelezny, the greatest javelin thrower of all time. Third gold in a row, plus a silver in '88. He HAD to break the Olympic record to win because Steve Backley had broken it in the previous round. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: AOY Voting starts now
Mike: Jan might not be the first to defend a Javelin title, but how many people have won 3 in a row in any tf event? I can only think of Al Oerter and Carl Lewis, and they are legends. Your guy will be forgotten by most tf fans in a short time. Jan will be a legend, like Oerter. Who do you want as AOY? A legend or a guy that hardly anyone has heard of? I think I know the answer, but it's the wrong one. Track has a big enough pr problem without naming an obscure athlete as AOY. Ed. -Original Message- From: Michael Rohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eckmann, Drew [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ed prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, October 07, 2000 11:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: AOY Voting starts now Netters Acknowledging Drew's points that unfortunately many don't consider the walks a track event. I do believe it is to bad because the achievement was really quite remarkable. One point to remember no one else double medalist in individual events. And who has done anything really outstanding other then say Jan? Well in myheart he is AOY and Jane Saville should be the sports woman of the year because she of all is the one athlete I would point out to my children and say this is how you act when something bad happens. But Ed Prytherch wrote: AOY should go to Jan Zelezny, the greatest javelin thrower of all time. Third gold in a row, plus a silver in '88. He HAD to break the Olympic record to win because Steve Backley had broken it in the previous round. Sure Ed he did. But Robert ALSO had to break the Olympic Record because two others did. And Jan isn't the first to defend the javelin nor is he the first to defend in a throws event. Robert was the first to defend the 50k ever. Jan is great and I was amazed by his throw. But wether you like the walks or not most on this list really have no idea what this guy did or how well he did it. Good Training, Michael Rohl
Re: t-and-f: devers at GP Final
Tony will continue to have fun as long as the cloak of secrecy persists. He appears to want an end to this as he favors abandoning testing. The National federations keep his fire burning. Ed Prytherch. Randall wrote: Surely Gail Devers could sue Tony Craddock for this. But then again why would she. Such a sad person probably doesn't have much money to pay her. Randall Northam Under (d) you might well want to consider that Devers had a positive test on her, and a deal was cut for her to tank her race in Sydney to avoid the embarrassment of having to be escorted off the field as happened to the hammer thrower who tested positive. Likewise perhaps assurances were received from Qatar that there would be no testing. As I said earlier: "Are you going to believe me or your own lying eyes?" Tony Craddock
Re: t-and-f: Jim Rome on the 4x100, Michael Johnson
Jim Bendat wrote: No, MJ only acts like a jerk when he loses. He quits on the track or comes up with some lame "injury". He's a great winner all right, but his true character comes out when he loses. That's because Mike hasn't had too many opportunities to practice. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: women's 10,000m records
Wang's Atlanta performances - 1st/5000, 2nd/1 are superior to Tegla's in Sydney. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: women's 10,000m records Big difference: the marathon was the FINAL event for Viren and Zatopek (who didn't have to run a 10,000 heat). Think those guys would have been on the track three days after an all-out marathon? Bigger difference: Viren and Zatopek actually won multiple gold medals. It's one thing to do well in multiple distance events; it's another to actually win them by defeating all the best runners in the world. Viren ran his Olympic marathon a ONE DAY after winning the 5K and completing a total of 18.5 miles of hard, gold medal-winning, track racing. Zatopek WON the Olympic marathon after completing over 12 miles of gold medal-level track racing. Kurt Bray _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: t-and-f: u.s. women
Many athletes were affected by a flu type virus. Monique Hennagan's temperature was 102 the day of her 400 race. Maybe some of the women you list were similarly affected. Glover and Richardson looked like medal prospects. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Jack Pfeifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 02, 2000 9:54 PM Subject: t-and-f: u.s. women In a way, it's a good thing Marion Jones contested five events in Sydney, because without her, what would the U.S. women's team have left? 1. No other finalists in the 100 or 200 2. Probably no medals in the relays 3. Only 2 other medalists -- Dragila gold in the pv, Morrison bronze in the 100H Four leading members of the team withdrew (Inger Miller, Gail Devers, Kelly Blair, Regina Jacobs) and a number of others performed far below their Trials form (Deena Drossin, Sandra Glover, Latasha Colander-Richardson, Jearl Miles, Shelia Burrell, Shana Williams, Amy Acuff, etc.) What happened? JP
Re: t-and-f: 5 gold medals
I agree with Conway's analysis. Monique Hennagan twice split sub 51 in high school when her best open time was 52.6. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Uri Goldbourt [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:17 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: "5 gold medals" "Throw in a couple of 48 if necessary".. easier said than done. Anyone who has run competitively or coached knows, that a runner in a 50.3 shape does not suddenly produce a 48.5 in a relay. But in 10 days we'll find out. For the sake of excitement and of the popularity of T and F, let's hope you are right. Actually Uri it is not that out of the ordinary .. Just this year Michelle Collins, who is a 50 point type, split 48.5 at Penn .. In the 88 world record race the following splits were turned in by 50 point sprinters: Ledovskaya - 50.12 Pinigina - 49.43 Denean Hill - 49.82 (leadoff) Diane Dixon - 49.17 FloJo - 48.08 When East Germany ran 3:15.92 the ran the following splits with all being 50 point runners except Koch: Gesine Walther - 49.8 Sabine Bush - 48.9 Dagmar Neubauer - 49.4 Marita Koch - 47.70 Grit Breuer is basically a 50 point quarter miler who always runs 48 second anchors .. My point simply being that it is not uncommon for individuals (especially in big competitions) to run much better than their PRs in 4x4s .. On the men's side there are often 43 point and low 44 second legs from 45 second sprinters .. So I think it is possible .. Especially with Russia having most of their eggs in this basket .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs
According to reports that I have read, the IOC will publish the names of all athletes who test positive to the EPO blood test, after the games are over. It is likely that some athletes are skipping the games because they don't want their names published. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Bryan Beel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 1:21 PM Subject: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs 2) Drugs. I can see where the "rash" of withdrawals from the Games makes some people think more athletes are on drugs (ie. Jacobs, Hissou, etc etc) but it seems like there's one logical inconsistency in all the mud-slinging. Unless I'm really missing something, it seems that NONE of the mentioned athletes would TEST POSITIVE unless they were total morons. Nandrolone: who in their right mind would use this with all the current testing? No one. HGH: can't test for it. EPO: can't test positive unless you've used the "juice" in the last three days. Isn't that what everyone was howling about with the crappy new IOC test, that no one would test positive because the urine test had such low power? So why would Jacobs withdraw unless she really was sick? She's sure as hell not going to test positive for EPO unless she's got some astoundingly bad trainers. Same goes for everyone else. And it seems, if they used EPO this well to get here, they probably are smart enough to stop using it at least 3 days before they come to Sydney, don't you think?
Re: t-and-f: Let's talk track
We tend to concentrate on physical recovery, but mental recovery is also a factor. Charlie Francis has written that it takes 10 to 14 days for the central nervous system to recover from an all-out 100 meters. Ed Prytherch -Original Message- From: Ed Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TFMail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:53 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Let's talk track Not being a distance runner I have a question - just how difficult would that be given that there are 3 hours of rest involved and the 5000 would be the first round ?? What type of times could be expected if someone did attempt to do that ?? And would Sief be capable of pulling something like that off ?? There should be very little performance dropoff from the 1500m semis to the 5000 first round 3 hours later. The problem is that this combination would detract from performance in the 1500m final and 5000 semis and finals on later days. Some runners could handle it better than others, but running a 1500 and 5000 in the same day tends to make a runner a bit flat for a couple days. High school distance runners do this type of thing all the time, and I believe Paavo Nurmi had some success at the Olympics many years ago, but most of the top competitors would likely not want to risk not being at 100% for the 1500m final. Consider that MJ complained in 1996 about having the first round of the 200 one day and the finals of the 400 the next day (I believe that was one of the proposals along the way). This situation would be more difficult. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: NBC monopoly
Michael Rohl wrote regarding the triplecast: Except when Frank and Marty tried to cover the 50k walk. Oh man did they ruin that. You don't even want me to get riled up over that one. I thought that it was great entertainment. Frank and Marty were able to accurately predict when the leading "walkers" would break into a run. One of the skills of Olympic race walking appeared to be knowledge of where the judges were located. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: Leave Dwight alone! (was NBC monopoly)
Justin Clouder would have more sympathy for US track fans if he had to put up with the TV coverage that we get. I too would think that things were fine and dandy if I lived in Europe (I used to). Ed Prytherch
t-and-f: Lisa Misipeka story
Lisa Misipeka story In The State - Columbia SC http://www.thestate.com/columnists/gillesp/bgill026.htm
