Re: t-and-f: SRO
What we have here is a lack of youth in this conversation. As a matter of fact we have a general lack of youth period. I listen to the arguments, and read the threads and I am continually astounded by the age of the topics in here. I actually spent a week arguing a topic that is 30 years old, metric v imperial. Let it go and get over it. Now we are embroiled in the hot topic of sitting at meets. The only time this is a topic is at the elite level in the US. Go to a HS meet, and the only people sitting or concerned with sitting are those way down at the 200 m start. Track meets are a social event, that means people move and talk, stand and sit. Walk from one side to the other. Overall we all have a grand time. We leave smiling, and laughing only to come home, log on, and see the negative of everything good that happened that day. I guess it is a good thing I do not have tickets at meets. I have the freedom to walk around and sit wherever there is a seat. DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled
Re: t-and-f: SRO
Listers, This thread is one of the many reasons the sport will never succeed in the US. Ever go to a baseball game? Football game? A rock, pop, country concert? Hockey game? There's even standing during tennis matches. Doesn't everyone stand at golf tournaments? Hell, I went to a Monster truck show last night and had to continually pick up my 6 year old so he could see over the crowd in front of him during the more exciting events. Never even considered asking the people who were sitting in front of us. It's part of going to an event live. BTW - there were 50,000 people at the event and all seemed to have a good time. No incessant whining about the folks who won't sit down. That would be 'stuffy'. Steve S.
Re: t-and-f: SRO
Conway wrote: > Have to agree with Garry here ... Sacramento was not that bad ... There were > probably more people in the stands begging people to sit than "police" doing > so .. And the reason for that was becasue of site lines in the stands ... > Everyone wanted to see the action ... And the way the site lines were it was > difficult in various parts of the stadium when people stood up to see .. The > guards did do a very good job of keeping areas fairly empty when the track > was empty so that the fans could see the other things going on in the > stadium ... So I think Sacto has gotten a bad rap for trying to "take the > fun" out of the meet .. I agree - sacto was not that bad. But it was one of the few USATF meets that has been a sellout, and that's why the conflict between the stand-up people and the sitters was more obvious. Again, the solution is having areas where standing is allowed (provided you do actually have a seat). That's not to say standing is "required" in those sections, but people are allowed to stand up from their seats whenever and for as long as they like. I can't imagine that there will be any fire code or safety violation problem as someone suggested - otherwise hundreds of college basketball arenas would be in real trouble. At many of these places, the fans are literally standing for every game the entire season in a much more cramped and harder to exit arena than Sac State. I wonder what it would take to make it happen? USATF getting involved? The local media picking up on it? - Ed Parrot
RE: t-and-f: SRO
I'll be standing whenever it is appropriate. The longest event takes 30 minutes. I don't know what the big deal is. If you don't want to be forced to stand in order to see then I suggest you stay home and watch on television. The coverage is so good and you won't have to worry about having someone stand, sit or talk to you during the 10K. The only time I have to stand during the TV coverage is whenever they show the walk. I say STAND, it's easier to hide the keg of beer if everyone is standing in front of it. -Ray
Re: t-and-f: SRO
GH wrote: ><< Darrell pleads: > > >Standing is a sign of interest and excitement, do not kill that. > >Too late. It's mostly already killed, particularly for the Olympic Trials. >Because there the Fun-Not-Allowed crowd somehow managed to arrange to have >the actual Sacramento police enforce their aribtrary and highly-restrictive >notions of proper spectator etiquette. > >Imagine that at a baseball game: a certain group spectators with the >mentality of a bunch of fussy little old ladies somehow gets the city cops >to force all baseball fans to sit glued to their seats, even when the >pitcher is facing a tough jam with the game on the line, even when a >homerun >ball is sailing for the fence. For a fun sport like baseball the concept >is laughable. But in track it has somehow become the norm. It has even >taken on a patina of virtue. Incredible.>> > >Kurt, that's the most colorful writing you've ever done. So colorful that I >imagine that anybody who wasn't in Sacramento now has visions of a Roman >slave galley, with pitiful wretches chained to their seats while hulking >centurions wander the aisles with huge whips, rending flesh to the beat of >Gabe Jennings' drum. > >C'mon! I find it hard to believe there was a single instance where the >crowd was not allowed to perform like the living entity that all crowds >are. When there something soul-stirring happened, 20,000 butts rose as one, >and nobody had the mildest complaint. The cops weren't automotons; they >felt the emotion just like everybody else, and when the adrenaline rush >hit, they scurried to get the best vantage point just like everybody else. > >But they also did a good job of keeping sightlines clear at times when >there was no reason to stand unless you were rude and inconsiderate. >There's a clear difference and I think they did a great job of >distinguishing between the two. If errors are to be made, I'd prefer they >erred on the side of good manners. > >gh Have to agree with Garry here ... Sacramento was not that bad ... There were probably more people in the stands begging people to sit than "police" doing so .. And the reason for that was becasue of site lines in the stands ... Everyone wanted to see the action ... And the way the site lines were it was difficult in various parts of the stadium when people stood up to see .. The guards did do a very good job of keeping areas fairly empty when the track was empty so that the fans could see the other things going on in the stadium ... So I think Sacto has gotten a bad rap for trying to "take the fun" out of the meet .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: SRO
Garry writes >C'mon! I find it hard to believe there was a single instance where the >crowd was not allowed to perform like the living entity that all crowds >are. When there something soul-stirring happened, 20,000 butts rose as one, >and nobody had the mildest complaint. The cops weren't automotons; they >felt the emotion just like everybody else, and when the adrenaline rush >hit, they scurried to get the best vantage point just like everybody else. Musta been different in your section. Where I was sitting if 20,000 butts rose as one, they would have been immediately shouted back into place by 2,000 asses yelling "Sit Down!!". All of this no matter how exciting the action. And if all the shouting didn't keep you in your seat, the cops would. Occasionally, the action was so compelling that the standers would temporarily get the upper hand and the whole section would stand up momentarily, much to the consternation of the Sit Down! faction, which quickly reasserted its self-anointed moral authority to force everyone to sit back down at the earliest possible moment. Actually the cops were reasonably competent, but my mind boggled at the thought that police would even be used in the first place to keep spectators from standing up during an exciting sporting event. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: SRO
In a message dated Sat, 24 Feb 2001 2:00:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: << Darrell pleads: >Standing is a sign of interest and excitement, do not kill that. Too late. It's mostly already killed, particularly for the Olympic Trials. Because there the Fun-Not-Allowed crowd somehow managed to arrange to have the actual Sacramento police enforce their aribtrary and highly-restrictive notions of proper spectator etiquette. Imagine that at a baseball game: a certain group spectators with the mentality of a bunch of fussy little old ladies somehow gets the city cops to force all baseball fans to sit glued to their seats, even when the pitcher is facing a tough jam with the game on the line, even when a homerun ball is sailing for the fence. For a fun sport like baseball the concept is laughable. But in track it has somehow become the norm. It has even taken on a patina of virtue. Incredible.>> Kurt, that's the most colorful writing you've ever done. So colorful that I imagine that anybody who wasn't in Sacramento now has visions of a Roman slave galley, with pitiful wretches chained to their seats while hulking centurions wander the aisles with huge whips, rending flesh to the beat of Gabe Jennings' drum. C'mon! I find it hard to believe there was a single instance where the crowd was not allowed to perform like the living entity that all crowds are. When there something soul-stirring happened, 20,000 butts rose as one, and nobody had the mildest complaint. The cops weren't automotons; they felt the emotion just like everybody else, and when the adrenaline rush hit, they scurried to get the best vantage point just like everybody else. But they also did a good job of keeping sightlines clear at times when there was no reason to stand unless you were rude and inconsiderate. There's a clear difference and I think they did a great job of distinguishing between the two. If errors are to be made, I'd prefer they erred on the side of good manners. gh
Re: t-and-f: SRO
>For a fun sport like baseball the concept >is laughable. ...yeh, but... you somehow fanagle expensive box seats in row 3, right behind home plate... It's a pitcher-duel game. ball from pitcher-to-catcher. strike. throw it back to pitcher. ball from pitcher-to-catcher. strike. throw it back to pitcher. ball from pitcher-to-catcher. strikeout. And so it goes. It's the bottom of the 5th. Two clowns in Row 1, right in front of you, have been standing since the 2nd inning. Everybody in back of them is yelling at them to sit down. In between guzzling their brewskies (shirtless of course) they turn around and yell at the crowd where they can go, including plenty of middle finger symbolism. We're not talking about home runs here. We're talking long drawn out pitcher's duel. Okay for them to stand whenever they want, for as long as they want? Does a paid ticket entitle them to do whatever they want to in their designated "space" ? Now don't get me wrong- in the rare case of a no-hitter going into the 9th inning, and everybody in the entire stadium is standing- that's different RT
Re: t-and-f: SRO
Darrell pleads: >Standing is a sign of interest and excitement, do not kill that. Too late. It's mostly already killed, particularly for the Olympic Trials. Because there the Fun-Not-Allowed crowd somehow managed to arrange to have the actual Sacramento police enforce their aribtrary and highly-restrictive notions of proper spectator etiquette. Imagine that at a baseball game: a certain group spectators with the mentality of a bunch of fussy little old ladies somehow gets the city cops to force all baseball fans to sit glued to their seats, even when the pitcher is facing a tough jam with the game on the line, even when a homerun ball is sailing for the fence. For a fun sport like baseball the concept is laughable. But in track it has somehow become the norm. It has even taken on a patina of virtue. Incredible. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
