RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks always have a reason why they do what they do. It's still wrong. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James R. Kaminsky Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:50 PM To: Randy Treadway; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner I have a similar story from the early 60s at Ohio Wesleyan. We were coming in from an easy road run down a slight grade into town running on the road near the curb. We were cruising at a really good clip when I noticed a Cadillac at a side street about to turn right (we were coming from his right). His eyes were looking left since he knew there was no traffic coming in his lane from the right. Just as we got to him he decided to make his turn and that's when the fun began. I should have been a stunt man, because I hit the top of his long Cadillac hood on my butt, slammed by palms as hard as I could on the hood, leaving some neat impressions, and sliding off the other side continued on never missing a stride. He slammed on his breaks, cleaned the shit out of his pants and didn't move for the longest time. Mean while we just continued on like nothing was wrong. What a great feeling. Moral of story - look both ways before you pull out. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Randy Treadway Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner Well I was in the group that it happened to, and did it, in 1976 in Troy, Alabama. I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk people swerving at runners, runners have picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it (running over a car or pickup trick) whenever they have the opportunity, as justifiable. After so many years, I don't remember who in the group I was running with came up with the idea and said hey, there's the guy- let's run right over his truck. In my memory, it was pretty much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him sitting at the stop light. So it's probable actually happened several (or many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter were the first. Give them credit among distance runner lore for paving new ground, like Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name like the Fosbury Flop- we caught the guy at the next intersection and Batchelored him. You'll have to explain to young runners what getting Batchelored means. RT RT On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction (Once a Runner) versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff From: ghill Reply-To: ghill To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700 there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson Reply-To: nad wilson Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
I wonder if this punk is proud of his vandalism. Regards, Martin Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just as the rider was passing. http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymoresports/Layout/Article_Type1call_page=WM_Homecall_pageid=979619472127call_pagepath=Home/Homec=Articlecid=1030446570382 malmo wrote: I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks always have a reason why they do what they do. It's still wrong. malmo
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
Tyler Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just as the rider was passing. http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymorespo rts/Layout/Article_Type1call_page=WM_Homecall_pageid=979619472127call_pag epath=Home/Homec=Articlecid=1030446570382 My favorite line from the article is the following typo: ``The doctors do not think that he will be permanently scared It's interesting that Tyler Hamilton probably has gotten in more crashes than any other professional cyclist in the last 2-3 years. He was 2nd in the Giro D'Italia this year despite breaking a few bones (in the shoulder area I think) during one of the first few stages. He crashed 3 times during the Giro and almost went down a 4th time during an individual time trial on a dry, smooth road (to be fair it was around a turn). The poor guy might consider applying his high VO2 max to running, racewalking, or X/C skiing - it's safer! - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
I suppose there is some sort of point you are trying to articulate? That cyclists are maniacs on the road, reckless reprobates oblivious to their surroundings? Everyone knows that! I wonder if this punk is proud of his vandalism. Regards, Martin Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just as the rider was passing. http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymoresports/Layout/Article_Type1call_page=WM_Homecall_pageid=979619472127call_pagepath=Home/Homec=Articlecid=1030446570382 malmo wrote: I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks always have a reason why they do what they do. It's still wrong. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
EXACTLY The smart thing to do would be to anticipate the fact that the vast majority of people making turns in the right turn on red zones do NOT do anything more than make a perfunctory glance to their right way before they reach the intersection. Is is the best method? Nope. But you could avoid a big hassle, improve general motor vehicle vs. runner relations, and avoid making an ass of yourself if you choose the high road. It isn't worth the possibility that somebody either pulls out a gun or converts their vehicle into a weapon so that a bunch of scrawny (and I used to be somewhat like that and now coach them) distance runners can prove their manhood in order to later impress their peers with their tales of courage. This fact may stagger the imagination, but the roads were built for VEHICLES-we as runners need to be cordial, respectful, and defensive GUESTS. You just can't win a fight against a multi ton vehicle. My athletes have always had the highest (or close it) GPA's on campus, so I tell them to act like it when out on the roads. It amazes me when stupidity is glorified. Sorry to be on the soap box, but I cringed when I watched whichever Prefontaine movie showed Steve running over a car in Eugene (ok, I'll admit that both movies were pretty bad) because you just know that some kids are going to try it. But, just think about the first time that it happens and somebody stomps the pedal while they're on the car or whips out that gun or runs them down afterward. That wouldn't be tragic, it would be pathetic. Tirade over: For a great FICTIONAL account of a runner's payback, check out Slinger Sanchez's 10 mile or so run to revenge sometime in Bruce Glikin's book. (That was an unsolicited plug btw).. --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks always have a reason why they do what they do. It's still wrong. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James R. Kaminsky Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:50 PM To: Randy Treadway; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner I have a similar story from the early 60s at Ohio Wesleyan. We were coming in from an easy road run down a slight grade into town running on the road near the curb. We were cruising at a really good clip when I noticed a Cadillac at a side street about to turn right (we were coming from his right). His eyes were looking left since he knew there was no traffic coming in his lane from the right. Just as we got to him he decided to make his turn and that's when the fun began. I should have been a stunt man, because I hit the top of his long Cadillac hood on my butt, slammed by palms as hard as I could on the hood, leaving some neat impressions, and sliding off the other side continued on never missing a stride. He slammed on his breaks, cleaned the shit out of his pants and didn't move for the longest time. Mean while we just continued on like nothing was wrong. What a great feeling. Moral of story - look both ways before you pull out. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Randy Treadway Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner Well I was in the group that it happened to, and did it, in 1976 in Troy, Alabama. I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk people swerving at runners, runners have picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it (running over a car or pickup trick) whenever they have the opportunity, as justifiable. After so many years, I don't remember who in the group I was running with came up with the idea and said hey, there's the guy- let's run right over his truck. In my memory, it was pretty much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him sitting at the stop light. So it's probable actually happened several (or many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter were the first. Give them credit among distance runner lore for paving new ground, like Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name like the Fosbury Flop- we caught the guy at the next intersection and Batchelored him. You'll have to explain to young runners what getting Batchelored means. RT RT On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction (Once a Runner) versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff From: ghill Reply-To: ghill To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700 there's also a story
Re: t-and-f: Why on the Street
In a message dated 8/26/02 10:37:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone else on this list been yelled at by someone pulling out of a driveway, that THEY ( the runner) were in the way, because Cars have the right of way over pedestrians on sidewalks? I will pretty much continue to run in the street, where I take up no more room than a parked car, except on major highways with no shoulder. I was actually HIT by a car once while running across a street on my way to run on the beach. The genius behind the wheel was looking the wrong way while attempting to run a stop sign. Luckily she was going slow and I hit her hood with my hands and landed on my butt. But her response was classic: when I got up and yelled at her she said you ran into ME! Too bad I don't weigh 4,000 lbs. JT
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
In Boston I would barely DRIVE in the streets, much less run there. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. It comes from years of reading things like this: http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spshin.html Wherein the good doctor advises (about shin splints): Downhill running can aggravate this problem and should be avoided. Too long a stride can also delay healing. Most of all, DO NOT RUN ON CONCRETE! I read another podiatrist who estimated that 80% of all cases shin splints could be avoided simply by running on asphalt instead of concrete. I have no idea where the 80% figure comes from, but if you are battling running injuries, such warnings and stats are easily enough to put you off the sidewalk and out into the street. Kurt Bray _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
I heard that story for Shorter and Bacheler but it was roads and the Bacheler side of the car was ruined but no marks appeared on the Shorter side. Why was that? Tom, GBTC - Original Message - From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. The way I heard this from guys in the group when it happened was that they were on the streets Of Tallahassee and they weren't wearing spikes. bd -- Benji Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction (Once a Runner) versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700 there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - another factor
Lots of interesting responses to this query. I, too ran on the roads, rather than the sidewalk, whenever practicable - and, yes, facing traffic. Softer, much easier to keep a rhythm, fewer intrusions of people, bikes, etc - all the rasons others have cited. But let me URGE those of you who run real miles: Run on dirt, grass - ANYTHING BUT PAVEMENT! Asphalt is still very hard. I ran on pavement for roughly 45 years (age 14-58), the last 36 of them in Miami where there is little besides pavement. I thought I would run forever - into the grave - just slower. Nope. Osteoarthritis, clearlly from all that pounding. Simple choice: stop running or have a hip replacement. No one is going to cut me open and saw off a chunk of my femur, etc. My two closest running friends, also pretty high mileage guys - anywhere from 75-125 for years - are crippled up by arthritic knees, and they were still in their mid--late 40s when halted. If you love running as much as I did - as we did - please heed my urging. It CAN happen to you. Geoff From: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:16:13 -0700 (PDT) I have to ask all you road runners out there something that has been bothering me for way too long. Every time I see what looks to me like a recreational runner running, they are always on the street, even when a perfectly good sidewalk is available right next to them? All of the serious runners I know and have asked, tell me that they run on the sidewalk when they can. It just seems like common knowledge to not run on the street if you don't have to. (Sometimes I know there is not much of an option, but I am talking about when there is one.) It is obviously very dangerous and there have been multiple times I have had to swerve my car to avoid some jogger running in the street at night. I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? I am very curious at to what you all think. Thanks, Dave Cahill Greater Boston Track Club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
From: Benji Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Benji Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:37:21 -0600 To: tf list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? The way I heard this from guys in the group when it happened was that they were on the streets Of Tallahassee and they weren't wearing spikes. hey, it woulda made an even better story to find out why they were wearing spikes on the streets of Tallahassee! :-) gh
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
Well I was in the group that it happened to, and did it, in 1976 in Troy, Alabama. I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk people swerving at runners, runners have picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it (running over a car or pickup trick) whenever they have the opportunity, as justifiable. After so many years, I don't remember who in the group I was running with came up with the idea and said hey, there's the guy- let's run right over his truck. In my memory, it was pretty much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him sitting at the stop light. So it's probable actually happened several (or many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter were the first. Give them credit among distance runner lore for paving new ground, like Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name like the Fosbury Flop- we caught the guy at the next intersection and Batchelored him. You'll have to explain to young runners what getting Batchelored means. RT RT On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction (Once a Runner) versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff From: ghill Reply-To: ghill To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700 there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson Reply-To: nad wilson Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
After reading Once a Runner, I asked Jack about this story. In the novel, Cassidy runs over the length of the car. According to Jack, he would just run over the hoods of cars that would pull out in front of him. He compared it to taking the water jump. This makes the story less fantastic, but for a long time after hearing his account I tried to pull up the guts to take a step on the hood of a running but occupied car. I never did it. Here's another entertaining tale. I'm a freshman at Princeton back in the Winter of 1995. Snow covers the sidewalks and the trails, so a group of us are running on the side of the roads. It's a Saturday or Sunday, and we've got a recruit on the run with us named Jason Balkman. Before this guy went on to be a many time all American and win a team title in Cross, he was better known as the guy who won the Foot Locker West Regional and then didn't run at the national meet. We're on this run, and I ask him why he didn't run at the national meet. Balkman tells me this story about how he was elected/appointed to some regional student council advisory board or something like that. Anyhow, there was a meeting on the day of the national meet, and he intended to honor his prior obligation. Unlike Balkman, I might have dropped out of high school if I could have gone to the national meet, but I digress. The point is that it occurs to me what a responsible, conscientious recruit we have here. As we're finishing the run, this jackass comes up directly behind us on the street, and blares the horn. He didn't tap it. He wasn't trying to alert us to danger. He held it down for a good long while. We jump to the side into the snow, and the guy drives by, laughing. Shortly thereafter, near campus(at Palmer and Nassau), the car comes to a stop light. We catch up to it and bend over to pick up chunks of snow/ice, which we proceed to hurl at the car. These chunks made some nice solid thuds; hopefully they did some real damage to the car. The driver then gets out, comes around the car, and starts running after us. We'd just finished a run, but there was no chance this clown was going to catch any of us. We sprinted into the campus and back to the gym. I don't remember whether Balkman actually threw a snow ball at the jackass motorist, or whether he thought the experience was as funny as the rest of us did, but he didn't come to Princeton. Robbie Howell On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, ghill wrote: there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes.
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner
I have a similar story from the early 60s at Ohio Wesleyan. We were coming in from an easy road run down a slight grade into town running on the road near the curb. We were cruising at a really good clip when I noticed a Cadillac at a side street about to turn right (we were coming from his right). His eyes were looking left since he knew there was no traffic coming in his lane from the right. Just as we got to him he decided to make his turn and that's when the fun began. I should have been a stunt man, because I hit the top of his long Cadillac hood on my butt, slammed by palms as hard as I could on the hood, leaving some neat impressions, and sliding off the other side continued on never missing a stride. He slammed on his breaks, cleaned the shit out of his pants and didn't move for the longest time. Mean while we just continued on like nothing was wrong. What a great feeling. Moral of story - look both ways before you pull out. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Randy Treadway Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: Once a Runner Well I was in the group that it happened to, and did it, in 1976 in Troy, Alabama. I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk people swerving at runners, runners have picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it (running over a car or pickup trick) whenever they have the opportunity, as justifiable. After so many years, I don't remember who in the group I was running with came up with the idea and said hey, there's the guy- let's run right over his truck. In my memory, it was pretty much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him sitting at the stop light. So it's probable actually happened several (or many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter were the first. Give them credit among distance runner lore for paving new ground, like Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name like the Fosbury Flop- we caught the guy at the next intersection and Batchelored him. You'll have to explain to young runners what getting Batchelored means. RT RT On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction (Once a Runner) versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff From: ghill Reply-To: ghill To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700 there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of Shorter and Bacheler running in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled a car in front of them (not sure how the car was on the course, hence the apoc. nature), and supposedly they ran right over the hood and left a score of spike holes. From: nad wilson Reply-To: nad wilson Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? sounds like something slinger sanchez did. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
Well, here in California, people pretty much run on the sidewalk if there is one. Maybe the people running on the street when a sidewalk is available are the same jokers who drink so much that they get hypernutremia or who attempt a marathon on 20 miles per week (wait, I did that once!) - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: t-and-f: Why on the street? I have to ask all you road runners out there something that has been bothering me for way too long. Every time I see what looks to me like a recreational runner running, they are always on the street, even when a perfectly good sidewalk is available right next to them? All of the serious runners I know and have asked, tell me that they run on the sidewalk when they can. It just seems like common knowledge to not run on the street if you don't have to. (Sometimes I know there is not much of an option, but I am talking about when there is one.) It is obviously very dangerous and there have been multiple times I have had to swerve my car to avoid some jogger running in the street at night. I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? I am very curious at to what you all think. Thanks, Dave Cahill Greater Boston Track Club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
Assuming the street is asphalt, that suface is softer than concrete and thus is less likely to cause overuse injuries like sress fractures. I also personally find curb jumping and uneven sidewalks awkward and disruptive to my rhythm. Perhaps it's all in my mind but I prefer the street. From: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Why on the street? Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:16:13 -0700 (PDT) I have to ask all you road runners out there something that has been bothering me for way too long. Every time I see what looks to me like a recreational runner running, they are always on the street, even when a perfectly good sidewalk is available right next to them? All of the serious runners I know and have asked, tell me that they run on the sidewalk when they can. It just seems like common knowledge to not run on the street if you don't have to. (Sometimes I know there is not much of an option, but I am talking about when there is one.) It is obviously very dangerous and there have been multiple times I have had to swerve my car to avoid some jogger running in the street at night. I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? I am very curious at to what you all think. Thanks, Dave Cahill Greater Boston Track Club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
Obviously there is a serious safety issue in many streets and roads, but one theory that I've heard every now and then is that most roads are paved with asphalt, while most sidewalks are concrete. And concrete is said to be a whole lot harder on the muscles and the joints than asphalt (asphalt doesn't give). In most of my running years in the deep South, sidewalks were a luxury item that were only found in a core area within city limits. Most suburbs and roads in the area didn't have sidewalks, so generally we'd run wherever was smoothest- usually on the road, or if there was any motor vehicle traffic then we'd run on the grass or dirt shoulder next to the paved road if there wasn't too much loose gravel, and if there weren't a bunch of high weeds to contend with. One other drawback to running on an asphalt surface in the South- it radiates heat. On some of those long road runs you can see the heat hovering above the road- a pretty nasty sight. Of course, concrete sidewalks probably radiate even MORE heat. Folks up north probably don't have the heat issues to deal with, except at the peak of the summer. One other 'rule of thumb' that we tried to adhere to in the deep South- when running on the shoulder, always run in the direction AGAINST the direction of any traffic in the closest lane. That we you can see 'em comin' if the Bubba rednecks think it sporting to throw their empty beer cans at you as they pass. The worst was having to dodge empty beer BOTTLES thrown from passing cars. It happened to the group I was running with more than once. Glass bottles shattering near your feet is no fun. Once a guy in a pickup truck even thought it funny to take his car trash bag and empty it out the window at us as he zipped pass, flooring it. The most outrageous incident was a redneck who actually veered off the road onto the shoulder at high speed, just to see us leap in the drainage ditch to avoid getting hit. He sped off laughing. Fortunately nobody was injured, and a few miles later on the outskirts of town, we came up to an intersection where the same guy was waiting for the light to change, and our entire group ran right up over the top of his pickup, the last guy stomping extra hard on his hood. And then us chickens took off sprinting :-) But we felt good that we'd sort of avenged the apparent intentional hit-and-run attempt, to say nothing of accumulated bottle- and can-dodging over time. P.S.- don't get me wrong, the South has a lot of friendly people- it's just that the bad apples are pretty darn rotten. RT
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street?
Growing up in LA I used to run in the street on the asphalt as opposed to running on the sidewalk whenever there was enough shoulder that is was safe to run on. Anybody who has run over 100 miles per week in the city knows that running on the asphalt is much easier on your legs then running on the concrete sidewalk. I used to choose my routes accordingly so that there was enough room and as little traffic as possible. I also use to run on the left always facing traffic. The key was that I always chose certain roads. I've never had hypernutrenia. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ed and Dana Parrot Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:59 PM To: Athletics Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Well, here in California, people pretty much run on the sidewalk if there is one. Maybe the people running on the street when a sidewalk is available are the same jokers who drink so much that they get hypernutremia or who attempt a marathon on 20 miles per week (wait, I did that once!) - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: t-and-f: Why on the street? I have to ask all you road runners out there something that has been bothering me for way too long. Every time I see what looks to me like a recreational runner running, they are always on the street, even when a perfectly good sidewalk is available right next to them? All of the serious runners I know and have asked, tell me that they run on the sidewalk when they can. It just seems like common knowledge to not run on the street if you don't have to. (Sometimes I know there is not much of an option, but I am talking about when there is one.) It is obviously very dangerous and there have been multiple times I have had to swerve my car to avoid some jogger running in the street at night. I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? I am very curious at to what you all think. Thanks, Dave Cahill Greater Boston Track Club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street?
Oh...and let's not forget that today's modern sidewalks are completely useless since for some reason municipalities and developers have decided it's ok to put street lights, telephone poles and fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ed and Dana Parrot Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:59 PM To: Athletics Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? Well, here in California, people pretty much run on the sidewalk if there is one. Maybe the people running on the street when a sidewalk is available are the same jokers who drink so much that they get hypernutremia or who attempt a marathon on 20 miles per week (wait, I did that once!) - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Dave Cahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: t-and-f: Why on the street? I have to ask all you road runners out there something that has been bothering me for way too long. Every time I see what looks to me like a recreational runner running, they are always on the street, even when a perfectly good sidewalk is available right next to them? All of the serious runners I know and have asked, tell me that they run on the sidewalk when they can. It just seems like common knowledge to not run on the street if you don't have to. (Sometimes I know there is not much of an option, but I am talking about when there is one.) It is obviously very dangerous and there have been multiple times I have had to swerve my car to avoid some jogger running in the street at night. I see it so many times that I really wonder if they are being told to do so by some running book or magazine. Has anyone seen anything published anywhere telling people to run in the street? Is there any logical reason? Like running up and down curbs is dangerous or unhealthy for some reason? Like they think they have the same road rights as cyclists? Are they just too lazy? I just don't get it. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? I am very curious at to what you all think. Thanks, Dave Cahill Greater Boston Track Club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
