Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
We talked about improving/changing the proposal process a few weeks ago to bypass problems like *people dislike voting chause of it's very limited nature *it should be a more 'show your design and improve it together with others' (as already said by others). *make it media indipendend so mailinglists users get notified in the same way as forums, wiki, users http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-August/004023.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-September/004342.html But we didn't succeed with a single brilliant idea. For this proposal IMHO the users who removed the proposal should be notified and the author should be allowed to add his new feature to the map features page. He fullfilled all requirements with his proposal regards Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
Am 13.10.2010 09:31, schrieb Matthias Meißer: For this proposal IMHO the users who removed the proposal should be notified and the author should be allowed to add his new feature to the map features page. He fullfilled all requirements with his proposal I contacted him and we're still in a very interesting discussion. His opinion is, that the map-features should list the *most common used* features and it's clear that with 500 uses, craft does not fall into this category. So I can accept this tag not being listed on map-features but findable via a the search. This is a definition problem of what should be on the map-features page. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On 13-10-2010 9:43, Peter Körner wrote: I contacted him and we're still in a very interesting discussion. His opinion is, that the map-features should list the *most common used* features and it's clear that with 500 uses, craft does not fall into this category. So I can accept this tag not being listed on map-features but findable via a the search. This is a definition problem of what should be on the map-features page. And how exactly would the craft tag become widely used if people have to out on a limb to find it, exactly because it's not mentioned in the Map Features? This will only hamper adoption. -- Lennard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:43:36 +0200 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 13.10.2010 09:31, schrieb Matthias Meißer: For this proposal IMHO the users who removed the proposal should be notified and the author should be allowed to add his new feature to the map features page. He fullfilled all requirements with his proposal I contacted him and we're still in a very interesting discussion. His opinion is, that the map-features should list the *most common used* features and it's clear that with 500 uses, craft does not fall into this category. So I can accept this tag not being listed on map-features but findable via a the search. This is a definition problem of what should be on the map-features page. Peter If map features is restricted to most common used how will it ever enlarge to cover new tags which can't be advertised?? I don't agree with the logic expressed in Map features page oversize do not add any more Liz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On 13/10/2010 09:30, Lennard wrote: And how exactly would the craft tag become widely used if people have to out on a limb to find it, exactly because it's not mentioned in the Map Features? This will only hamper adoption. Because they do a search of the wiki (and the mailing lists, and osmdoc et al) for terms that might be used to describe what they're trying to map? That's certainly what i did as a novice mapper (and still do). Map Features is linked from the wiki's Main_Page and Beginners'_Guide and subsequent pages, but it's not the most prominent link on any of them - the search box is much more prominent. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
The search box is also a lot faster than opening MapFeatures. Indeed there'd be a case for abolishing MapFeatures (and just making MapFeatures a category). Richard On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:59 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 13/10/2010 09:30, Lennard wrote: And how exactly would the craft tag become widely used if people have to out on a limb to find it, exactly because it's not mentioned in the Map Features? This will only hamper adoption. Because they do a search of the wiki (and the mailing lists, and osmdoc et al) for terms that might be used to describe what they're trying to map? That's certainly what i did as a novice mapper (and still do). Map Features is linked from the wiki's Main_Page and Beginners'_Guide and subsequent pages, but it's not the most prominent link on any of them - the search box is much more prominent. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
The voting process may not be representative, but I believe it is the best approach for defining a new tag that OSM currently has. - at least there is some discussion and some documentation - interested people have one place to look for new tags and join the discussion I think that just going for raw usage numbers falls a little short of reality - the fastest way to establish a new tag then is a bot or a mass import. The second fastest approach is adding it to the presets of a popular editor, which still does not require any discussion or documentation. Currently I am not aware of any documented decision process that would take the number of individual users adopting the tag or the time it has been used into account. Considering the reversal of the crafts entry, I consider the changes of Jonobennett very questionable as with his next edit on MapFeatures he completely removed several established main tags, e.g. barrier which is used over 10 times in Germany alone. bye Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Successful-proposal-tp5626273p5630650.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
NopMap wrote: Considering the reversal of the crafts entry, I consider the changes of Jonobennett very questionable as with his next edit on MapFeatures he completely removed several established main tags, e.g. barrier which is used over 10 times in Germany alone. I believe that was an unintentional editing mistake. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Successful-proposal-tp5626273p5630745.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
Am 13.10.2010 13:54, schrieb NopMap: Considering the reversal of the crafts entry He did not reverse anything, the craft tag and all documentation is still there, its just not listed as a common used tag (because it's not common used right now). Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
what about removing highway=byway from the mapfeatures? It is used less then 2000 times (which is very little for highway), and it is UK-only, so IMHO no reason at all to be listed on the main features page, could be moved to mapfeatures UK. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How do I amend the wiki Was[add leisure=swimming_pool to the core-features]
n Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 12/10/2010 23:02, Brad Neuhauser wrote: If you go to edit a OSM wiki page, just to the right of Save Page | Show Preview | Show Changes is a link for Editing Help, which does go to a page with links which will help in editing, including the wiki markup. Yes. I came across that page a while back. The first link sends the newbie editor (who probably doesn't understand anything about wiki editing) to a page that, well appears to be gobbledygook. It's in English, so the minimum you'd expect is for it to be written by somebody who knows the English language. for example: Here is OpenStreetMap wiki, of course you can insert the OSM's map into any pages. I know what you're thinking but please, read it again; it doesn't make a sentence. Under the heading:Colour and symbol legend; there are some graphics that I've never come across in the time I've been contributing to OSM. Apologies to sound negative, but it really puts off the newbie users, especially as it's the first page they come to. Should these types of fundamental pages be rewritten then locked? Cheers Dave F. Well, that page hasn't been touched since May, and nothing very significant has changed on it for at least a year, so I don't think over-editing is really the issue. If you have ideas to improve the page, go for it, it's very empowering. I agree about the Colour and Symbol Legend section--this seems to be an idea that never really went anywhere (unless someone else knows different?). Brad ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
Am 13.10.2010 16:04, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: what about removing highway=byway from the mapfeatures? It is used less then 2000 times (which is very little for highway), and it is UK-only, so IMHO no reason at all to be listed on the main features page, could be moved to mapfeatures UK. Yes I would approve that. Same with geological which is only used 120 times worldwide. Let's clean the map features list! Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
As a new tagger, I look to Map Features to see what tags were supported by the community, not to see the most common tags. When I want to know the most commonly used tags, I use some automated tool like taginfo or tagstat. We are wrestling with a presentation issue and clearly a single wiki page for Map Features isn't working. I can easily imagine some people wanting to view the features by the number of occurrences, the number of different users who have used it, the number of different countries it's used in, and the last time it was used. I don't know if the current wiki engine will support such dynamic display but I doubt it. Being new I don't know of any previous efforts to develop some application to manage the community supported tags. Has there been any? -- Sean On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 00:43, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 13.10.2010 09:31, schrieb Matthias Meißer: For this proposal IMHO the users who removed the proposal should be notified and the author should be allowed to add his new feature to the map features page. He fullfilled all requirements with his proposal I contacted him and we're still in a very interesting discussion. His opinion is, that the map-features should list the *most common used* features and it's clear that with 500 uses, craft does not fall into this category. So I can accept this tag not being listed on map-features but findable via a the search. This is a definition problem of what should be on the map-features page. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On 13/10/2010 15:04, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: what about removing highway=byway from the mapfeatures? It is used less then 2000 times (which is very little for highway), and it is UK-only, so IMHO no reason at all to be listed on the main features page, could be moved to mapfeatures UK. Yes, I agree with that, byway is really England and Wales specific. And I think its generally deprecated there anyway - its more useful to just tag them as highway=path/track/service etc, plus designation=restricted_byway or designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic as appropriate. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Non proposed features
Inspired by the discussion on the Successful proposal proposal discussion I restarted the discussion about improving the map features management on the german forums: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=9604 Everybody feel free to join the discussion :) Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Non proposed features
2010/10/13 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de Inspired by the discussion on the Successful proposal proposal discussion I restarted the discussion about improving the map features management on the german forums: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=9604 Everybody feel free to join the discussion :) Feel free to talk about this in a german forum but important decisions like changing Map Features should take place on the international list. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On Miércoles 13 Octubre 2010 11:59:22 SomeoneElse escribió: On 13/10/2010 09:30, Lennard wrote: And how exactly would the craft tag become widely used if people have to out on a limb to find it, exactly because it's not mentioned in the Map Features? This will only hamper adoption. Because they do a search of the wiki (and the mailing lists, and osmdoc et al) for terms that might be used to describe what they're trying to map? That's certainly what i did as a novice mapper (and still do). Map Features is linked from the wiki's Main_Page and Beginners'_Guide and subsequent pages, but it's not the most prominent link on any of them - the search box is much more prominent. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Maybe we need two separate pages, one with ALL approved features (which may be called, by the (high)way, Approved Map Features) and another one as a first- stop with the most used features (which can be called Map Features or Most Used Map Features and change the link in the wiki main menu). This way, we will have the perfect solution for the problem: a comprehensive list with all community-approved tags and links to all their descriptions, usages, examples and caveats (and voting pages or messages), and a really useful page for novice mappers. Noel er Envite signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
Craig Wallace wrote: Yes, I agree with that, byway is really England and Wales specific. And I think its generally deprecated there anyway Yes, it is, especially since the Countryside Rights Of Way Act (CROW) which significantly reclassified UK 'byways'. It is better to use a universally understood tag (generally highway=bridleway or highway=track) and add access and designation= tags for the circumstances of that particular path. I've removed it. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Successful-proposal-tp5626273p5632745.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On 10/13/10 4:24 PM, Noel David Torres Taño wrote: On Miércoles 13 Octubre 2010 20:22:49 Richard Welty escribió: On 10/13/10 2:38 PM, Noel David Torres Taño wrote: Maybe we need two separate pages, one with ALL approved features (which may be called, by the (high)way, Approved Map Features) which requires an agreed upon definition of what constitutes an Approved Map Feature. good luck with that. not that i think this is a bad idea, mind you. i just think that it may not be achievable in our lifetime, much less before the heat death of the universe. Well, there are votings in this list and in the wiki itself. That's a sound start (but many thanks for the criticism, i'm starting to see how disorganized the anarchy can be) and there are list participants who disagree quite vigorously with the current voting procedures. it may be possible to iterate towards a more effective approach to concensus, but i'm not planning on holding my breath. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Garmin Map Features
Hi all, I'm happy to announce the creation of the Garmin Map features part of the of SchemaTroll 2.01 project http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SchemaTroll_2.01#Garmin_Map_Features I used the 2nd latest version of the mkgmap features, and compared it with the Master Garmin map features list. and organized the feature categories, and added in my own ideas of what new map features could be created. It's a free Open Access chart so anyone can edit as they like, i set it up so that i will get notified of changes on the chart. https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dGdSaEwwTUx5eGtzSFdPbmZPQlpBTEEhl=en It's now easy to see what the appropriate OSM tags should be like. Feel free to add in comments in the last column of the sheet. Hopefully, this will give some people an idea of how to enhance the OSM wiki Map Features, as there are lots of features that need new tags created. Cheers, Sam --- Across Canada Trails - Beyond 2017 - The National Trails Network Victoria, BC Canada Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: 'Sam Vekemans' IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #CommonMap The Common Map channel (an open chat room) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Country names
Looking at very high zoom levels on Mapnik, I noticed that the East Asian countries (Japan, China, etc) have their names written in native script with the English name in parentheses, but a lot of other countries (e.g. all the ones with Arabic characters) don't seem to follow this. Why the inconsistency? Either way makes sense, but shouldn't we pick one and stick with it? -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
