Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Draft - Depot
On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:27:03 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: An agricultural school may have fields, orchards, cattle yards barns etc in the school grounds. Should this landuse be a school or a farm, or both? I'd be tempted to say just education myself, but I could see it going both ways. In this case I'd be tempted to tag it in a similar manner as an agricultural research area, or perhaps come up with a new tag, since they're teaching agriculture rather than focusing on commercial activities associated with agriculture. Certainly an agricultural school has a lot of this, but both normal high schools in our town have ag plots and grow veges, sheep and stuff. Those I made educational landuse. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ultimate list of approved keys
2011/1/1 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: - Where should I go to find the ultimate list of approved tags? There is this page and category: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Approved_features http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Approved_features it is not complete either, but if I recall right you were willing to improve documentation in the wiki, so this could be a possible field of action: add all approved features to this category... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - shop=anime (was: shop=anime_stuff)
Hi All. S.Higashi, big thanks for intersting photos! video=* yes/no/anime/etc Video disks and tapes In this case we should add video=* cinema/cartoon, and video:genre=comedy ... Why not? :) I think we can use any such additional attributes whithout proposals The main problem is rendering anime shops on the map. e.g. in Russia that shops like a little islands of japanese culture :) At this time whith shop=anime tagged 22 objects http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/tags/shop=anime#wiki The voting-period is extended. Welcome! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/anime Best regards, ergo ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ultimate list of approved keys
Your recall is correct. In all my work I act on Collect it|Catagorize it|Complete it (3 fases). Now a days I hear a lot of discussions where it is clear not everybody knows whats in wiki and whats not. The collection is not completely done and the collected pages are not well catagorized. when you want to complete the collection on this point wrong descissions are made in what has to be completed. In my work we call the OSM Tag Collection a Organized Chaos. When we adept fase 1 and 2, the Approval process will change dramatically. Discussions will be more clear and Ways new tags has to formatted will be obvious. -Robert- Citeren M?rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2011/1/1 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: - Where should I go to find the ultimate list of approved tags? There is this page and category: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Approved_features http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Approved_features it is not complete either, but if I recall right you were willing to improve documentation in the wiki, so this could be a possible field of action: add all approved features to this category... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Draft - Depot
2011/1/5 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com: There's two defintions of a landuse tag. One is any tag of the form landuse=*, the other is any tag describing what land is used for. Not all landuse=* tags fit the second definition (most of the remainder are landcover type tags instead), and not all of the second definition are in the landuse=* form. If you are using the second definition, then landuse tags should rarely overlap. But landcover and landuse tags overlap all the time. +1 I prepared a proposal for landcover to get rid of those ambiguities but there was no general agreement to do this step... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landcover cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
2011/1/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On 4/01/2011 7:20 AM, Paul Norman wrote: They both have elements of flow control, but function in quite different ways and look very different. A weir is used to raise the water level or control flow, with water flowing over the top. A sluice gate is essentially a valve for small waterways. +1 In this case, why not something like: waterway=weir weir=sluice_gate -1 If I interpret the information from wikipedia correctly sluice_gates are not weirs (they can be part of weirs). weirs are overflown, while sluice_gates can be opened and then let the water flow underneath them. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
2011/1/5 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 5 January 2011 15:16, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: waterway=dam (a wall with water on one side) waterway=weir (a wall with water flowing over the top) waterway=flow_control (an opening through which water sometimes flows). flow_control=sluice_gate|flood_gate|spillway_gate|lock_gate... Ummm, both dams and weirs are also methods of flow control, I'd move them both to be subtags similar to what you suggested. +1 would also be more clear in regard to already tagged objects. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - shop=anime (was: shop=anime_stuff)
Hi, video=* yes/no/anime/etc Video disks and tapes In this case we should add video=* cinema/cartoon, and video:genre=comedy ... Why not? :) I think we can use any such additional attributes whithout proposals I agree with this proposal. The main problem is rendering anime shops on the map. e.g. in Russia that shops like a little islands of japanese culture :) At this time whith shop=anime tagged 22 objects http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/tags/shop=anime#wiki I think most of them may be in Akihabara, Japan :) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1058713759 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1058825931 ... http://olm.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=17lat=35.69968lon=139.77123layers=B0FTT Shu Higashi ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 04:23 +1000, John Smith wrote: These shops can supply stuff for toddlers and children, not just infants. Also I think the word 'care' is misleading, to me, that would indicate some kind of place you could take your baby for medical assistance. Where you was during 6 months of proposed stage? :) Yep, I've already renamed tag to baby_care. It seems the simplest name for my nonenglish eye. About '_care'. Can you propose better alternatives? I can rename it and clear all voting if it will be better :) -- Sincerely, Artem ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Differences in cycleways
Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=51.810446,5.173895spn=0.00589,0.021136z=16layer=ccbll=51.810477,5.173954panoid=AELkS3h8zmUs821tPi1K-wcbp=12,36.33,,0,6.46) cycleway=lane: obvious a part of the carway mostly indicated by picture on the street or with a other colour. (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=52.26387,5.612104spn=0.002915,0.010568z=17layer=ccbll=52.263947,5.612153panoid=thvZenaicJdRuC6vD3hZuAcbp=12,31.36,,0,1.63) But .. now there is a problem. cycleway=track = Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to concider to be cycleway-tracks? -Robert-___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
I would take cycleway=track to mean that the cycleway probably has a gravel, cinder, or bare dirt surface, with minimal, if any, road cuts. In effect, it is a footpath intended primarily for bicycle use. ---Original Email--- Subject :[Tagging] Differences in cycleways From :mailto:rob...@elsenaar.info Date :Wed Jan 05 12:20:23 America/Chicago 2011 Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlamp;ie=UTF8amp;ll=51.810446,5.173895amp;spn=0.00589,0.021136amp;z=16amp;layer=camp;cbll=51.810477,5.173954amp;panoid=AELkS3h8zmUs821tPi1K-wamp;cbp=12,36.33,,0,6.46) cycleway=lane: obvious a part of the carway mostly indicated by picture on the street or with a other colour. (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlamp;ie=UTF8amp;ll=52.26387,5.612104amp;spn=0.002915,0.010568amp;z=17amp;layer=camp;cbll=52.263947,5.612153amp;panoid=thvZenaicJdRuC6vD3hZuAamp;cbp=12,31.36,,0,1.63) But .. now there is a problem. cycleway=track = Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to concider to be cycleway-tracks? -Robert-___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
cycleway=track is used when there is a cycle path paralell to a road. But it is esentially the same as tagging the cycleway as a seperate way with highway=cycleway. See also: A track is a cycle path that is separated from cars (commonly referred to as a bike path, greenway, or Class 1 facility in the United States). The value track is redundant when used on highway=cycleway (or equally on highway=path). When used on a different highway type (e.g. highway=secondary) it indicates that there is a separate cycle path adjacent to the road. 2011/1/5 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=51.810446,5.173895spn=0.00589,0.021136z=16layer=ccbll=51.810477,5.173954panoid=AELkS3h8zmUs821tPi1K-wcbp=12,36.33,,0,6.46) cycleway=lane: obvious a part of the carway mostly indicated by picture on the street or with a other colour. (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=52.26387,5.612104spn=0.002915,0.010568z=17layer=ccbll=52.263947,5.612153panoid=thvZenaicJdRuC6vD3hZuAcbp=12,31.36,,0,1.63) But .. now there is a problem. cycleway=track = Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to concider to be cycleway-tracks? -Robert- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
2011/1/5 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here cycleway=track Personally I consider cycleway=track a preliminary state before a proper highway=cycleway is drawn. It is intended for cycleways that are parallel to a street. There are problems with either approach: - either you draw a separate way (highway=cycleway), with the benefit of being able to set proper maxspeed, surface, oneway, lanes, access, turn-restrictions and other tags for the cycleway, but risking that not all possible interchanges are mapped initially (common mapping mistake). This also allows for small geometric details that otherwise get lost (positional accuracy). The backdrop is that in some cases the cycleway gets lost below the street in the rendering (dependent on render order and render widths). - if you set a cycleway=track you will not have most of the details described above, but you'll have less work and possibly it will look nicer in the rendering (if you don't care for details). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info wrote: Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=51.810446,5.173895spn=0.00589,0.021136z=16layer=ccbll=51.810477,5.173954panoid=AELkS3h8zmUs821tPi1K-wcbp=12,36.33,,0,6.46) cycleway=lane: obvious a part of the carway mostly indicated by picture on the street or with a other colour. (http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nlie=UTF8ll=52.26387,5.612104spn=0.002915,0.010568z=17layer=ccbll=52.263947,5.612153panoid=thvZenaicJdRuC6vD3hZuAcbp=12,31.36,,0,1.63) But .. now there is a problem. cycleway=track = Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to concider to be cycleway-tracks? Your first example is a cycleway=track. If you don't map it separately, and instead consider it to be part of Waalbandijk, you would add cycleway=track to the Waalbandijk way. If you do map it separately as a highway=cycleway, you can add cycleway=track to the highway=cycleway way, but it would be redundant. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
For me, baby care sounds a lot like childcare/daycare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childcare Some possible alternatives: baby goods, baby supplies, baby products On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Osmisto osmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 04:23 +1000, John Smith wrote: These shops can supply stuff for toddlers and children, not just infants. Also I think the word 'care' is misleading, to me, that would indicate some kind of place you could take your baby for medical assistance. Where you was during 6 months of proposed stage? :) Yep, I've already renamed tag to baby_care. It seems the simplest name for my nonenglish eye. About '_care'. Can you propose better alternatives? I can rename it and clear all voting if it will be better :) -- Sincerely, Artem ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:22 -0600, Brad Neuhauser wrote: For me, baby care sounds a lot like childcare/daycare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childcare Some possible alternatives: baby goods, baby supplies, baby products Ok. I'll rename. I'am voting for baby_goods :) But does baby_goods or especially baby_products sounds like products which are made by babies? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
I agree that something such as baby products or baby supplies would be better than baby care, since child care or infant care are routinely used to refer to businesses that take care of babies and young children while the parents are at work or otherwise occupied. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop From :mailto:brad.neuhau...@gmail.com Date :Wed Jan 05 14:22:40 America/Chicago 2011 For me, baby care sounds a lot like childcare/daycare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childcare Some possible alternatives: baby goods, baby supplies, baby products On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Osmisto osmi...@gmail.com mailto:osmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 04:23 +1000, John Smith wrote: These shops can supply stuff for toddlers and children, not just infants. Also I think the word 'care' is misleading, to me, that would indicate some kind of place you could take your baby for medical assistance. Where you was during 6 months of proposed stage? :) Yep, I've already renamed tag to baby_care. It seems the simplest name for my nonenglish eye. About '_care'. Can you propose better alternatives? I can rename it and clear all voting if it will be better :) -- Sincerely, Artem ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
I don't think anyone is likely to think this is a shop or factory using babies as child labor; even if it were legal, babies would not be particularly productive as workers. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop From :mailto:osmi...@gmail.com Date :Wed Jan 05 15:07:58 America/Chicago 2011 On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:22 -0600, Brad Neuhauser wrote: For me, baby care sounds a lot like childcare/daycare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childcare Some possible alternatives: baby goods, baby supplies, baby products Ok. I'll rename. I'am voting for baby_goods :) But does baby_goods or especially baby_products sounds like products which are made by babies? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
Well, as you said, the shop is selling products for babies, not the babies themselves. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop From :mailto:osmi...@gmail.com Date :Wed Jan 05 15:36:16 America/Chicago 2011 On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 21:19 +, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I don't think anyone is likely to think this is a shop or factory using babies as child labor; even if it were legal, babies would not be particularly productive as workers. Then why not shop=baby ? Selling children is illegal everywhere (I hope) :) -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:22 -0600, Brad Neuhauser wrote: For me, baby care sounds a lot like childcare/daycare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childcare Some possible alternatives: baby goods, baby supplies, baby products I added in Voting section new option. So you can approve or oppose the proposal and select value for the tag you like most at the same time. The most popular will be final for the proposal. Everyone is welcome! -- Sincerely, Artem. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
In my study of the evolution of mapping cycleways in OSM I found out there was a moment cyclistshad a problem to render lanes and tracks and had the strong wish to create usefull cyclemaps. They did decide to avoid the render problem en start mapping for the renderer. apperently they made the descition to map all cycle pathes that are a little bit saperated from the car lane directly as highway=cycleway. The advantages you mentioned by using seperated cycleway is just because a leak in tagging possibilities. Example: Way 1: highway=secundary name=Duinweg surface=asphalt maxspeed=50 Way 2: highway=cycleway surfase=paving_stones maxspeed=30 Solution: highway=secundary name=Duinweg surface=asphalt maxspeed=50 cycleway=track cycleway:surface=paving_stones cycleway:maxspeed=30 This kind of solution will make: - mapping easier, - tagging stays the same - No missing intersections - Routing keeps possible - cyclewaytrack got at last a proper name - Streetrelations becomes easier. Wil it make a change in a approval process to develop a proposal on e.g. ..:surface=* ..:maxspeed=* etc,etc ? -Robert- ---Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:02 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways 2011/1/5 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: Looking on tags for cycleways I find 3 different types: highway=cycleway: obvious these are free ways like here cycleway=track Personally I consider cycleway=track a preliminary state before a proper highway=cycleway is drawn. It is intended for cycleways that are parallel to a street. There are problems with either approach: - either you draw a separate way (highway=cycleway), with the benefit of being able to set proper maxspeed, surface, oneway, lanes, access, turn-restrictions and other tags for the cycleway, but risking that not all possible interchanges are mapped initially (common mapping mistake). This also allows for small geometric details that otherwise get lost (positional accuracy). The backdrop is that in some cases the cycleway gets lost below the street in the rendering (dependent on render order and render widths). - if you set a cycleway=track you will not have most of the details described above, but you'll have less work and possibly it will look nicer in the rendering (if you don't care for details). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging --- Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2011: Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1500SPAM=truepath=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam --- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info wrote: In my study of the evolution of mapping cycleways in OSM I found out there was a moment cyclistshad a problem to render lanes and tracks and had the strong wish to create usefull cyclemaps. They did decide to avoid the render problem en start mapping for the renderer. apperently they made the descition to map all cycle pathes that are a little bit saperated from the car lane directly as highway=cycleway. Nope - it's more precise than using cycleway=track on the road, and no different than mapping frontage roads separately from the main lanes. How would you map this without making the sidewalk separate from the road? http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kewanneewest.jpg http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.654176lon=-81.340925zoom=18layers=M ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
I map both: 1) I add cycleway:left=track to the road 2) I add adjacent=yes to the highway=cycleway, so you know you can refer to tags on the road if you prefer Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On 5/01/2011 7:27 PM, John Smith wrote: On 5 January 2011 15:16, Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com wrote: waterway=dam (a wall with water on one side) waterway=weir (a wall with water flowing over the top) waterway=flow_control (an opening through which water sometimes flows). flow_control=sluice_gate|flood_gate|spillway_gate|lock_gate... Ummm, both dams and weirs are also methods of flow control, I'd move them both to be subtags similar to what you suggested. I'm working on the basis that it's not possible to move any established tag. Would be happy to hear suggestions for how to accomplish that, though. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
2011/1/5 Robert Elsenaar rob...@elsenaar.info: In my study of the evolution of mapping cycleways .. The advantages you mentioned by using seperated cycleway is just because a leak in tagging possibilities. no. this is not about rendering. It is about the preferences in mapping: more or less abstract. The abstract solution might be better in simple cases, but if e.g. different turning restrictions apply it is much more complicated IMHO. It is according to the basic concept to model distinct ways in osm for separate ways in the real world. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
On 6/01/2011 5:38 AM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I would take cycleway=track to mean that the cycleway probably has a gravel, cinder, or bare dirt surface, with minimal, if any, road cuts. In effect, it is a footpath intended primarily for bicycle use. Sorry, that's simply incorrect. highway=*, cycleway=track means, quite explicitly, a bike path which is adjacent to a road. Its surface is unspecified, but if anything, would be implicitly the same as the road. On any way without a highway=*, cycleway=track is meaningless/redundant. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On 1/5/11 4:36 PM, Osmisto wrote: On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 21:19 +, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I don't think anyone is likely to think this is a shop or factory using babies as child labor; even if it were legal, babies would not be particularly productive as workers. Then why not shop=baby ? Selling children is illegal everywhere (I hope) :) too easily confused with shops selling products made from babies. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6 January 2011 08:47, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I'm working on the basis that it's not possible to move any established tag. Would be happy to hear suggestions for how to accomplish that, though. This seems to be an area that OSM *really* lacks, and some people give usage of tags as a reason not to improve things which doesn't seem like a valid argument especially when some tags like abutters and created_by have been depreciated. I'm spit balling here, but maybe one way to achieve might be to do the following: 1) Make a proposal and post to the tagging list asking for feedback/discussion Wait a week or two after the last post and then: 2) Post to the talk list asking for feedback/discussion 3) About 2 weeks after the last discussion/modifications to the proposal you post a vote request to both the tagging and the talk lists Depending on the outcome of the vote, either too many against at which point you could try modifying the proposal and going back to steps 2 or 3, or if the vote is successful or if there was a lack of interest in the outcome you could jump to step 4 4) Update the wiki to reflect the outcome 5) Use the XAPI to find existing tags and mass retag using your JOSM or any other editor that can handle OSM XML files. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On 6 January 2011 10:16, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: too easily confused with shops selling products made from babies. Apart from research facilities using baby stem cells, what products are made from babies? :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:02 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 January 2011 10:16, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: too easily confused with shops selling products made from babies. Apart from research facilities using baby stem cells, what products are made from babies? :) Does fried placenta count? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
Baby back ribs? (not really) ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date :Wed Jan 05 21:02:35 America/Chicago 2011 On 6 January 2011 10:16, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: too easily confused with shops selling products made from babies. Apart from research facilities using baby stem cells, what products are made from babies? :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Aqueducts?
How does one tag aqueducts that are not bridges? Examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quabbin_Aqueduct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicopee_Valley_Aqueduct http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aqueduct redirects to Key:bridge. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aqueducts?
On 6 January 2011 13:52, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: How does one tag aqueducts that are not bridges? Examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quabbin_Aqueduct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicopee_Valley_Aqueduct Based on those I'd use tunnel=yes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aqueduct redirects to Key:bridge. Maybe whoever added the redirect were confusing aqueduct with viaduct ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6/01/2011 2:00 PM, John Smith wrote: This seems to be an area that OSM *really* lacks, and some people give usage of tags as a reason not to improve things which doesn't seem like a valid argument especially when some tags like abutters and created_by have been depreciated. I'm spit balling here, but maybe one way to achieve might be to do the following: 1) Make a proposal and post to the tagging list asking for feedback/discussion Wait a week or two after the last post and then: 2) Post to the talk list asking for feedback/discussion 3) About 2 weeks after the last discussion/modifications to the proposal you post a vote request to both the tagging and the talk lists Depending on the outcome of the vote, either too many against at which point you could try modifying the proposal and going back to steps 2 or 3, or if the vote is successful or if there was a lack of interest in the outcome you could jump to step 4 4) Update the wiki to reflect the outcome 4a) Update Potlatch 2's stylesheets and presets to reflect the outcome 4b) Update JOSM to reflect the outcome 4c) Update Mapnik's stylesheets to reflect the outcome 4d) Update Osmosis's stylesheets to reflect the outcome 4e) Update Mkgmap (err, whatever it's called) to reflect the outcome. 4f) Assist external editors, renderers and other tools to reflect the outcome (Cloudmade, Mapquest, Nearmap, iPhone apps...) 5) Use the XAPI to find existing tags and mass retag using your JOSM or any other editor that can handle OSM XML files. My guess is that this mailing list and talk@ reach a pretty small proportion of users. Simply announcing we're changing the tag! please tag differently from now on! is not remotely sufficient. Similarly, doing a mass tag update which is going to break many existing renderers and editors is simply not acceptable. Particularly when some of these seem to update very slowly. We can't have thousands of entities suddenly disappearing off the main mapnik view until, some weeks or months later, someone gets around to updating the stylesheets. Putting in place a serious process for tag migration will be difficult. I suggest that a first step will be definition of an actual schema, with version number. For example, define an actual list of several hundred tags, with semantics, that correspond to OSM core 1.0. Then, we could have votes on changes to the schema, with advance notice given: On November 1, 2011, the main database will be updated to OSM core 1.1. Please have your editor and renderer patches ready for this date. Not easy, and I don't think the OSM community is at that level of process maturity yet. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aqueducts?
On 6/01/2011 2:52 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: How does one tag aqueducts that are not bridges? Examples: waterway=canal, boat=no Or perhaps waterway=drain, if you're not fussed about the distinction between stormwater and drinking water. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
2) Post to the talk list asking for feedback/discussion 3) About 2 weeks after the last discussion/modifications to the proposal you post a vote request to both the tagging and the talk lists It would be nice to have a list that map data consumers could subscribe to that we could poll to verify that they are or are not using a tag, or get clarification on how they are using a tag. (Just what we needanother blankin' list!) But for tags with presets, etc, the process is very drawn out, as Steve mentioned. I'm trying to get a minor tag update on one editor - no accompanying style sheet update. A single line change, and 2 1/2 months later it is still several months away from implementation. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6 January 2011 14:07, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: My guess is that this mailing list and talk@ reach a pretty small proportion of users. Simply announcing we're changing the tag! please tag differently from now on! is not remotely sufficient. As I stated I was spit balling and this thread is to try and come up with something defined that would even remotely facilitate a tag change :) Also, while talk and tag are only a small number of contributors, they are the ones that would care most about such changes. Similarly, doing a mass tag update which is going to break many existing renderers and editors is simply not acceptable. Particularly when some of Well I didn't stipulate time frame between wiki changes and have no idea how much notice would be reasonable, would a month, 3 months, 6 months ? Putting in place a serious process for tag migration will be difficult. I IMHO the current system of not being able to make alterations is worst. suggest that a first step will be definition of an actual schema, with version number. For example, define an actual list of several hundred tags, with semantics, that correspond to OSM core 1.0. Then, we could have votes on changes to the schema, with advance notice given: On November 1, 2011, the main database will be updated to OSM core 1.1. Please have your editor and renderer patches ready for this date. I don't agree with this, if you must use versioning just base it on the date rather than arbitrary numbering. Not easy, and I don't think the OSM community is at that level of process maturity yet. Unless we take steps to become more mature things will never change, I see this thread as a good start, where it will end up is another matter entirely. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6 January 2011 14:23, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: It would be nice to have a list that map data consumers could subscribe to that we could poll to verify that they are or are not using a tag, or get clarification on how they are using a tag. (Just what we needanother blankin' list!) We could just use the announce list, but restrict posts to major tag change announcements. But for tags with presets, etc, the process is very drawn out, as Steve mentioned. I'm trying to get a minor tag update on one editor - no accompanying style sheet update. A single line change, and 2 1/2 months later it is still several months away from implementation. Exactly, this is why I'm advocating some kind of policy on how to achieve tag updates in a much more reasonable time frame. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aqueducts?
On 6 January 2011 14:10, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Or perhaps waterway=drain, if you're not fussed about the distinction between stormwater and drinking water. Or subtag waterway=conduit conduit=storm_water|potable_water|waste_water| ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6/01/2011 3:26 PM, John Smith wrote: Exactly, this is why I'm advocating some kind of policy on how to achieve tag updates in a much more reasonable time frame. In your thinking there seems to be the assumption that we run some process *per tag*. I think it works better to run a process *per schema revision*. Let's say we think that there will be a revision on January 1 next year. You might have a process like this: Jan-Mar: Suggestions for tag changes, stored in some structured location. Apri-Jun: Discussion on tag changes. Unpopular proposals can be killed. Popular ones need to be fleshed out Jul: Voting on tag changes. Votes could be yes, no, needs more work. Aug-Sep: Writing up of spec for tag changes, explaining what's going to happen. Oct-Dec: Implementing new spec across all editors, renderers, documentation etc. Jan: go live with new schema, commence discussion for the next round... Something vaguely along those lines anyway. 12 months? 6 months? Who knows. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 6 January 2011 16:46, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: In your thinking there seems to be the assumption that we run some process *per tag*. I think it works better to run a process *per schema revision*. Oh, a regular update schedule, that might be a good idea, however ... Let's say we think that there will be a revision on January 1 next year. You might have a process like this: Jan-Mar: Suggestions for tag changes, stored in some structured location. Apri-Jun: Discussion on tag changes. Unpopular proposals can be killed. Popular ones need to be fleshed out Jul: Voting on tag changes. Votes could be yes, no, needs more work. Aug-Sep: Writing up of spec for tag changes, explaining what's going to happen. Oct-Dec: Implementing new spec across all editors, renderers, documentation etc. Jan: go live with new schema, commence discussion for the next round... I'd suggest at most updating quarterly. This should be ample time to discuss simple changes that most people don't have a problem with, update the wiki and push editor makers to make necessary changes and finally have people update their style sheets to the new tags, they could run modified tags in parallel so they aren't surprised when things change. As for timetable, I'd suggest allowing tags to be discussed for as long as they like, and have a freeze period where accepted changes can no longer be changed and then a change over period where objects might be dual tagged where possible and finally the depreciated tag removed. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
